A neighbour who is a VON nurse (the VON helps with the delivery of seasonal flu vax in our County) tells me that regular flu vax is only effective for up to six months. My question is:- will panflu vax have a longer period of efficacy? Or will they have to organize two (or more?!)courses of vax for the general public - once they finally develop an effective panflu vax of course!! - or keep vaxing us every six months until the damn thing disappears??
No, gharris. The damn thing keeps reappearing in new forms while deep in some bunker they fiddle with with the”latest” vaccine.
Flu shot good for 3 months.
COPYRIGHT 2004 The Sun Herald
Byline: Richard Harkness
Q I have a follow-up question to your recent flu shot column. How long does the effect of the flu vaccination last? I’ve heard about three months.
The vaccination stimulates the body to create antibodies against the flu viruses (inactivated) included in the vaccine. These antibodies peak within about two months of the vaccination and then gradually decline.
You should still have protection during the period of decline, at least until a certain level is reached, so the 3 months you mention could be about right.
If this is so, then flu shots given at the first of the season, say Oct 1, will not be any good in Jan, Feb and March. This is still prime flu season. Anyone else want to comment. The above 2 posts are not in agreement according to time. Anyone?
NJ Jeeper:
Please tell me when there has ever been 100% agreement on seasonal vaccine. My research shows three months then immune system lays back… It can’t stay on red alert vigilance 24/7 for half a year. It’s got other worries going on at the same time. I’m guessing the older you are the less time its vigilant and that’s why the elderly get hit so hard because they are the first vaccinated. Kids should get it first and then elderly as the season moves more inward, but I’m not in charge.
I called for flu shots yesterday, and my MD’s office (in Southern NJ) told me they only got half their order and are only doing high risk through November. They said check supermarkets, pharmacies, and county health for alternates. I thought there was no problem this year. Anyone else running into this?
NJ Jeeper – at 16:15
“If this is so, then flu shots given at the first of the season, say Oct 1, will not be any good in Jan, Feb and March.”
This is exactly what my MD told me. If i get it now (which she said was a good idea) I will need to come back again as early as 8 weeks for another. I have my appointment set for a shot on Oct. 10.
“TRay75 – at 10:32 I called for flu shots yesterday, and my MD’s office (in Southern NJ) told me they only got half their order and are only doing high risk through November. They said check supermarkets, pharmacies, and county health for alternates. I thought there was no problem this year. Anyone else running into this? “
They have advertising here (Portland, OR/Vancouver, WA) that there is no shortage. I went to my local Safeway pharmacy and made an appointment for this afternoon to get both the flu shot and a pneumonia vaccination.
AVanarts at 10:53-And that pneumonia vaccination will pay big dividends for years to come, regardless of your possible contraction of panflu. I received my first one after being laid low by a doozy of a virus that impacted me and everybodyelse who got it for four to six weeks. This was back in 2002. So in 2003 I read about the benefits of the pneumovax, and my physician readily agreed to vaccinate me, having treated me in 2002.
Tray - they have supply issues lost of years. They do not make enough vaccine for the entire population. If more people than forecasted want the vaccine (like one year flu broke out early and several qhicldren died from complications and that freaked everyone out, or there are suppply issues (happened before). VAx makers don’t make much on it and they try to forecast demand as best they can, but it’s not easy. Distribution is another issue as well. My MD’s office is the same - and they’ve always only done high risk patiens first, then who ever is left with whatever vaccine is left, are next. Same with our ped’s office. Last year I was able to get the kids done, but couldn’t get a shot through my doc or a clinic. This year I am trying to find it earlier in the year. Costco is running clinics around here in the next two weeks so I’m hoping I can do that. I was able to get a pneum. vax at a walk in clinic this summer no problem.
So those who get the vax in early October can get the flu before the end of flu season in March? Nothing I can do since I got mine October 1, but this does not make sense. Anywaw DW got her pneumonia vax also, so whatever, it was worth it. I can’t see what waiting 2 weeks will do for us anyway, and my fear was that with the talk of this vax possibly helping with pandemic flu, we ran out and got ours. No lines and these were done at the walk in clinics at Rx stores. I remember a couple years ago with the shorthage waiting in line 2 hours to get the flu shot.
Would there be any difficulty associated with getting an early vaccine (as in, now), and then being vaccinated again in 3–4 months?
There are already some people in the immediate area presenting with “flu-like symptoms”. I’m not so sure how long I want to wait before getting a dose of the vaccine. I am sure I don’t want March to get here and me be sitting here with no effective vaccine on board.
Clawida - based on my experience last year, I’d get it sooner rather than later. I waited a bit too long and then couldn’t find it anywhere - and this was before the holidays. Wait until after and forget it. Since there’s no guarentee it’ll do much for you against PI I’m not going to stress too much if I don’t get one this year. It’d be a bonus to not get any flu, but with three school aged kids we always get hammered with something. They had the vax last year but they still were sick once with it + stomach bugs + chicken pox + ear infections, etc.
NJ Jeeper – at 11:38 So those who get the vax in early October can get the flu before the end of flu season in March? Nothing I can do since I got mine October 1,
Are we there yet – at 10:45 NJ Jeeper – at 16:15
“If this is so, then flu shots given at the first of the season, say Oct 1, will not be any good in Jan, Feb and March.”
This is exactly what my MD told me. If i get it now (which she said was a good idea) I will need to come back again as early as 8 weeks for another. I have my appointment set for a shot on Oct. 10.
Something about this thread really bothered me but it took hours to sink in. I don’t recall ever---I mean ever…being told by a doc or being instructed by a doc to tell a patient to get more than one flu shot. No, this is new. Can other HCW’s confirm this?
For people looking around for flu shots, you might try the link www.findaflushot.com This was posted on another thread a couple of days ago (can’t remember by whom). Let’s you put in your zip code and a radius to find flu clinics. It did not list all the ones in my area, especially ones occurring at non-chain drug stores, but it did list several that I did not know about.
I tried to find a study which investigated the length of time a flu vaccine remains effective, but could not easily locate one…a person would think this has been investigated, so it might require more time and a deeper look! I did however find these items, both from Canadian websites:
http://www.gov.mb.ca/health/flu/factsheet.html
“Protection from the flu begins approximately two weeks following immunization and can last for six months or longer. In the elderly, protection may start to decrease after four months.”
http://www.toronto.ca/health/flu_facts.htm#why
“The influenza virus changes each year, so a different vaccine has to be used each year too. The protection from the vaccine wears off after about six months so people need a new shot every year.”
This page which is the company information about the Fluzone vaccine, says this:
“In facilities housing older persons (eg, nursing homes), vaccination before October typically should be avoided because antibody levels in such persons can begin to decline within a limited time after vaccination.”
But a version (3 years earlier) of this document here, says “Administering vaccine before October should generally be avoided in facilities such as nursing homes, because antibody levels can begin to decline within a few months after vaccination”.
So to summarize, there are be two major reasons why a flu vaccine might not be effective. 1), if the publicly circulating strain changes. 2), if the effect of the vaccine wears off with time - which from all indications is more likely in the elderly; and probably in those with compromised immune responses, which could potentially included a lot of people. Furthermore this may include very young children with no exposure to naturally circulating influenza, because a look at recent vaccine package inserts reveals a recommendation that very young get two doses of the vaccine to raise an effective immune response. There are studies available about that.
This study, Occurrence and protective level of influenza infections using serology in patients with COPD in vaccination study, stated in its abstract: “In the vaccine group, 5 influenza cases occurred at 7, 7, 10, 11 and 11 months after vaccination.” (There were 61 patients in the vaccine group). So in this study, there were breakthrough cases occurring during the 7–11 month time period, in 8.2 percent of the people. This percentage is likely not indicative of the general public’s response, due to stresses on the respiratory system associated with COPD (Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease), but it does give some indication of trend. However, other factors associated with impaired immune response may tend to bolster the percentage of breakthrough flu cases in the vaccinated public.
I feel it’s a very wise to be informed regarding what the normal seasonal influenza vaccine can or cannot do, how long (in months) it would be effective in various segments of the population, and thus get a feel the degree to which its use might tip the scales in our favor against a potential outbreak of H5N1. Considering that influenza vaccines wane relatively quickly in effectiveness as compared to natural infection, I am personally somewhat anxious about pinning much hope on using current seasonal vaccine as protection against H5N1. Obviously the vaccine would need to contain an N1 component, but how soon do the N1 antibodies raised by the vaccine wane? I will also be opting into nutritional options for keeping the immune system as strong as possible. Yes it takes time and effort, but the benefits can be wide-ranging.
In the US, one can find flu clinics through the American Lung Association flu clinic locator at
The notes may or may not say if the Pneumovax is available at a given location.
In the Northeast, Brooks / Eckerd drugs are having flu shot clinics provided by Maxim health. They are also giving pneumonia vacs out at $40 each, no questions asked at the one I went to.
On how long the flu vax lasts:
My husband finally got a flu vax last year in Oct. (he has typically not bothered). However, he came down with an incredibly nasty flu during the last week of April. While traveling, he felt like he was coming down with something or other but, hoping it would pass, got on a plane to Canada anyway. (So he was contagious to his felllow passengers on that plane, but who would have thought it was flu?). He ended up spending a week in a hotel in Montreal flat on his back and in considerable flu distress. It may be that last year’s flu vax did not include whatever he came down with in its recipe, or it could be that his Fall vax had worn off. I will get my flu vax a bit later this year, though, because of his experience.
I’m not sure where to put this: my pediatrician’s office just posted this notice on the availablity of the regular flu vaccine this season. I spoke to them just the other day, and they expected to have plenty of vaccine available immediately - no delay. This has now changed, although I’m not sure why or why shipments need to be reviewed by the FDA. Is this new?:
IMPORTANT UPDATE ON OUR FLU VACCINE SHIPMENT:
_____ Pediatrics ordered over 1600 doses of flu vaccine for our patients. Sanofi Pasteur is the only supplier of pediatric vaccine. We have just received notification from the manufacturer that pediatric practices will be receiving their shipments in small orders over the next two months. The primary reason for this is the manner in which flu vaccine shipments need to be reviewed by the FDA. They are predicting that by the end of October, we will have received 40% of our vaccine. The remaining deliveries will likely be in November and early December.
Can I ask if anyone else sees any motivations in moving back the pediatric seasonal flu vaccines?
Just a couple of days ago, there was no delay on the pediatric flu shipments, now it is a completely different story - and very suddenly, too. The above notice states that the pediatric flu vaccines are delayed because “the shipments need to be reviewed by the FDA.”
Are they trying to push the vax date for kids back to offer them protection at a later time when they think they’ll need it? We know they’ve just said the regular vax may provide some protection from p-flu, and they want to avoid opportunities for reassortment.
Looking at the timing, if the earliest a child can now get a vax is Nov. 1, and they are protected from Nov 15 onwards for 6 months, that would put us at May 15. If they receive their vax Dec. 1 (or later), they will be protected through June 15 (or later). Any reason they would they might want to do this? Does this give us a timeframe or am I really reaching here.
Personnally I’d stay as far away from flu shots as possible. They all contain mecury as a preservative and there’s no way to predict what the long term cumulative efffective is of having a shot each year. Now the gov wants to vaccinate our children too. Thats not to say that if a pandemic where to present itself that I wuld’t get a vaccine for that if/when available. Just not the annual flu shot
Pixie — thanks for posting your comment.
A close friend called to remind me to schedule my kids’ flu shots; she said that she had tried but the peds were only giving the shots to kids with asthma. I was mystified as I have heard nothing about shortages, only that there was a plentiful supply and everyone should be sure to get a flu shot this year. I did a quick internet news search and saw no news about flu shot shortages. (Not like 2 years ago — “trouble at the Chiron plant” etc.)
I called my kids’ pediatricians office and the nurse there said that they were scheduling shots for late in Oct. and in November only; that they only receieved about 10% of their shipment from their supplier and that she didn’t know why. It just didn’t make any sense since I have heard no news of a shortage in production.
Also this news that the regular flu shot MAY offer some protection agaist a pandemic flu strain — (in mice) — I would have thought that would be front page news but so far I haven’t seen the media pick up on that study at all.
anonymous at 07:15 I am not wild about mercury in my kids. I am concerned about long term effects. HOWEVER — I am assuming that the flu shot does offer protection against seasonal flu. (I know some people like Tom DVM think otherwise! (-:) And having seen my sweet little babies struggle for breath and be ill for days and days with fever, vomiting, headache, and so on, I think I will take my chances with a bit of mercury, especially as they go out and about in public during flu season. If I could just keep them home with me and never expose them to any germs in this big city we live in, it might be a different story.
There is yet another confounding factor to consider when thinking through all the issues…that of the other respiratory viruses.
This little snip from the transcript of a public FDA meeting, and involving CDC’s influenza expert Dr. Nancy Cox, will give you an idea how important this issue might actually be for seasonal influenza and it’s vaccine.
‘’MS. FISHER: Dr. Cox, I have two sort of generic questions. This handout that we were given, there’s a statement that says, “Since September 29, WHO and NREVSS laboratories have tested a total of 33,901 specimens for influenza viruses and 1,195, or 3.5 percent, were positive.”
Doesn’t that seem like an awfully low percentage there that were positive for influenza virus? I assume that means that these individuals were sick with other things that looked like the flu.
I guess my question is, in your statistics, when people report flu, how do you know that is actually reflecting flu and not something else?
DR. COX: Right. There’s not a really short answer to this question, but, first of all, I would like to mention that what we had circulated, what had been circulated to the Committee previously, was a week older data than what I talked about today.
What I talked about today is the figures for week six, which is the figures for the week ending February 8th. During that week, which is actually during the influenza season, 20 percent of the respiratory specimens tested were positive for flu. This is what we will expect during the influenza season. The numbers that are in that report reflect all of the respiratory specimens that have been collected since October, when influenza viruses were not circulating.
Now these respiratory specimens are collected from people with respiratory illness, and there are many other pathogens that cause respiratory illness. So we don’t report on those pathogens because this Committee is really focused on influenza.’‘
These are names of other respiratory viruses that can cause what is loosely termed “influenza-like illness” in humans. Rhinovirus, respiratory syncytial virus, parainfluenzavirus, metapneumovirus, bocavirus, coronavirus, and adenovirus. There may be more unknown viruses (for instance, metapneumovirus and bocavirus have only recently been associated with respiratory illness).
This study did a survey of pediatric respiratory infections, and interestingly did not isolate even one sample of influenza virus, but found many of the other respiratory viruses. Perhaps the lack of influenza findings was related to time of year, but it does make one question just how often respiratory infection is truly influenza, as opposed to “influenza-like-illness”.
Frequent detection of human rhinoviruses, paramyxoviruses, coronaviruses, and bocavirus during acute respiratory tract infections.
“Viruses are the major cause of pediatric acute respiratory tract infection (ARTI) and yet many suspected cases of infection remain uncharacterized. We employed 17 PCR assays and retrospectively screened 315 specimens selected by season from a predominantly pediatric hospital-based population…Overall, human rhinoviruses (HRVs) were the most frequently identified target (n = 140) followed by human adenoviruses (HAdVs; n = 25), human metapneumovirus (HMPV; n = 18), human bocavirus (HBoV; n = 15), human respiratory syncytial virus (HRSV; n = 12), human coronaviruses (HCoVs; n = 11), and human herpesvirus-6 (n = 11)”…
So…how many of us know when we “get the flu”, exactly what virus caused it? Probably very few. And this is yet another reason why the yearly flu shot may be “not working”, because it may not be the same virus that’s making us sick.
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