First of all let me say that I have had so many pandemic dreams that I don’t bother to post them on the Dream thread. I don’t have the time for it. Last night I had a dream that I didn’t realize was panflu related until I awoke this morning and thought about it. After spending some time searching the net for anything related to some key points about this particular dream, I was about to give up, when I hit pay dirt.
In my dream I was in the middle of a dark smoky field when a soldier stumbled out of the darkness. He was dressed in a worn out WWI uniform. While holding a cloth mask over his face with one hand he handed me a clean mask, gave a thumbs up, and staggered back into the smoky darkness.
I thought that the mask was for the smoke. I noticed it was very damp and had some odd medicinal smell to it. It also had strips of adhesive around the perimeter.
In post dream analysis I thought the adhesive strips were a great idea for panflu mask! But what was the mask soaked in? Hence my search on the net.
Lessons from the past…..
November 1st 1918, Stars and Stripes (France edition)
Headline: GAUZE MASK FOR MEN ON TRANSPORT KEEP FLU AT BAY
<Snip> Five thousand American soldiers last week wore chemically-soaked white mask all the while a 35,000 ton ocean liner was speeding them to France over the North Atlantic. But when these soldiers, looking like ku-klux clansmen, disembarked at a base port there were no missing men when the rolls were called. Not a single soldier on that voyage had died of influenza or pneumonia.
<snip>
These mask consist of a square of gauze which is saturated with a one percent solution of iodine in albolene. There are strips of adhesive for fastening the mask over the mouth and nose.
<snip>
Page 1: http://memory.loc.gov/service/sgp/sgpsas/1918/191811/19181101/01.pdf
Page 2: http://memory.loc.gov/service/sgp/sgpsas/1918/191811/19181101/02.pdf
Now there are two things remarkable about this article. One is the obvious, no one got the flu in these crowded and stressed conditions. But the second is really remarkable. What are the odds that out of 5000 soldiers, not one had already been infected but not yet showing symptoms ? I’ld say nill. There had to be some infected men on that ship. So could breathing through this solution nonstop for days actually stop the infection from progressing?
(I googled mask iodine albolene and didn’t get much).
Albolene is a very old fashioned face cleansing and moisturizing product. It is still sold, and was probably around in 1918.
I was gonna ask “what the heck is iodine albolene?”
Its curious that the report said the men looked like “ku-klux clansmen.” I allways think of the klansmen as wearing hoods, not masks, but then the report does say it was a square covering mouth and nose. Just wondering if hoods would help protect the eyes. Or maybe klansmen did wear masks-I admit klansmen have never been a research topic of mine so I don’t know.
This is a very interesting dream!
I don’t have Barrys book. Can someone who does, check and see if there’s any mention of these mask with iodine and albolene in his book?
Thanx in advance!
I checked the index for references to iodine and albolene and found nothing. I read all the pages where masks were indexed and still nothing on this story. This is an excellent example of listening to your intuition JWB. We should remember this. I’m not sure how to make the solution. 1% iodine in albolene, is that some type of ratio?
Orlandopreppie – at 11:24
Thanks for checking! As far as the solution is concerned, I think albolene is a cream, I sort of remember it when I was a child. So I guess that it’s one part iodine mixed with 99 parts albolene. I’m going to do some checking later, but I think albolene is still available.
I am sticking my neck out here, but I think it’s possible that you are time traveling in your sleep, not just dreaming. Keep at it and see what other wisdom you can bring forward from the past. It will only serve to help us all.
JWB-did you try googleing just Alboline?
I didn’t recognize the name at first-the iodine threw me off, but I used to use Alboline all the time to remove theatrical makeup, then I found a cheaper ‘knock-off” version that worked just as well. Now it seems to be a favorite amoung atheletes-apparently it “opens pores so you sweat more” offering quick weight-loss- apparently wrestlers use it help keep their weight at a certain level. There is also another popular use for it that I really can’t mention on a public forum.
My guess-and just a guess here, is that it would be the iodine that would be the antiviral agent and the Alboline is the base or foundation used to suspend the iodine. I wonder though if the opening of pores/sweating out might help-maybe sweat out germs? Sounds pretty far out but who knows. I know that iodine is used as a disinfectant- I remember my mother putting iodine on my scraped knees, burned like fire, definatly had a medicianal smell, but I remember it being an orangy-red colour, though it seems like iodine I used in a high school chem class was purple.
Were the squares put on the face point upwards? That would remind people of white hoods.
(my snips follow) …”S. O. S. 375. Confidential. TOURS, October 29,” (1918)
“To THE ADJUTANT GENERAL. (For the Chief of Staff and Surgeon General.)
Convoy Antigone, 12 transports arriving Liverpool October 25, strength 19,154; cases pneumonia and influenza registers; deaths, pneumonia, 2; others sick, mumps, 80; measles, 33; chicken pox, 3. Transport Olympic arrived Southampton October 25; strength~ 5,430; influenza, 34; pneumonia, 2; no deaths. Mouth and nose masks worn day and nigh~. One per cent of iodine in albolene used as sprays. Three transports arrived Brest October 25; strength, 4,215; influenza, 26; pneumonia, 3; no deaths.”
366
“REPORT OF INSPECTION IN RELATION TO EPIDEMIC OF INFLUENZA AND PNEUMONIA AT _____.
MADE SEPTEMBER 28, 1918 By Colonel ______, M. C.
1. The strength of the command is 51,177, of which number 5,934 are colored. There is no overcrowding, and for some time there has been none, except possibly in isolated instances temporarily. Barracks are marked on basis of 45 square feet floor space per man, and the number of occupants is in practically every instance much below the allowances, so that over 50 square feet is provided each man. In the depot brigade from 12,000 to 15,000 men are kept under canvas, 5 men to a tent. In the division, men have been put under canvas when necessary to reduce overcrowding in barracks. Men sleep with head and feet alternating, and in many barracks the “cubicle system “is in use by means of shelter tents suspended between the beds.
2. Fires have been started in all buildings and the freest possible ventilation is enforced. Beds, bedding, and clothing are put out doors all day, weather permitting. Tents are furled daily. All floors have been reoiled once and in some instances twice since epidemic started. Overcoats and woolen underwear have been issued. There is ample bedding. Men are kept out doors practically all day. An officer is on duty in each barrack day and night.
3. Police of camp and barracks is excellent. Messes very clean. Ample steps have been taken for fly eradication, and flies are rarely seen in messes. Dishes are boiled after each meal. Where individual mess kits are used they are washed in boiling water after each meal, and are actually boiled at intervals, There are no common drinking cups in use,
4. There is still much dust in the camp and during the afternoon of my visit the air was filled with it. Part of the camp has been treated with “Dustex Glutten,” which appears in every way superior to oil in allaying the dust nuisance. Enough of the material can not be obtained to finish the work. The epidemic of influenza is said to have started promptly after a severe dust storm.
5. Absolute quarantine of camp against adjacent territory and vice versa has been in force some days, except that relatives of severely ill are admitted and visit the hospital, wearing masks. Interorganization quarantine was in force until the epidemic became so general that it was deemed useless. All large assemblies have been prevented, but the regimental Y. M. C. A. entertainments have been allowed to go on with a man in every other seat. The sale of food in post exchanges has been suspended and this has greatly reduced crowding therein. It was felt that absolute suspension of entertainments and of exchange privileges would be so detrimental to morale, already somewhat shaken, that the disadvantages would more than counterbalance the advantages.
6. There is ample cooperation on the part of the line officers, Men experienced in nursing have been drawn from all organizations in camp. Line officers in barracks are constantly on watch for new cases and see that men are properly cared for, Medical officers visit all barracks at least twice a day.
7. Throughout the camp a part of each barrack, generally one room, has been set aside for the care of suspected cases of influenza, and the mild cases. The men are cubicled in many instances, and masked in many others. The keeping of these cases in barracks, where more or less contact with the well is inevitable, is believed to be a serious mistake. These men were carried as “sick in quarters.”
8. In the barracks frequent temperatures were being taken by medical and line officers, and by enlisted men. The methods for disinfecting the thermometers in some instances appeared inadequate.
9. In all barracks and tents containing sick men, paper receptacles, usually pasteboard ice-cream plates, had been bought to use as bedside sputum cups. These were collected and burned at intervals. It had been ordered that a piece of newspaper be kept on the floor under each plate, but this was not done in all cases.
10. In the tent area of the depot brigade 36 pyramidal and store tents had been set aside as an infirmary and all suspected and mild cases were removed thereto. There were enough medical officers and attendants, and an ample supply of spit cups and commodes. The sick were neither cubicled nor masked. All were given food six times a day. The sanitary conditions of the entire tented area in the depot brigade were exceptionally good.”
“367
11. Two thousand negroes who arrived at the camp from civil life between two and five days ago, were put in an area by themselves and absolutely quarantined. The guard was most efficient and no officer or enlisted man could pass through without proper credentials. No influenza has occurred among these men.”
…”The porches were occupied by beds and are provided with rolling canvas curtains to keep out rain. All pnuemonia cases in wards were cubicled, but not those on porches, though the beds were too close together. Patients were arranged heads and feet alternating. Masking of attendants throughout the hospital was most thoroughly enforced. Ventilation of entire hospital was ample. Straw mattresses and quartermaster beds were used to a considerable extent. All influenza patients are fed in their own wards. They are not cubiclcd because of lack of sheets.
17. There was one ward full of sick female nurses, of whom 30 were said to have pneumonia. There were 51 on sick report. One nurse and one dietitian have died. One medical officer and one dental officer also have died.
18. There were over 100 bodies in the morgue and adjacent building used as an extemporized morgue. Relays of men were embalming, washing, and dressing the dead. The supply of coffins was adequate. The order and cleanliness of the morgue buildings was not entirely satisfactory. Only three autopsies have been done, as commanding general disapproves. The commanding officer did not know that the authority for doing autopsies had been placed in his hands, The three autopsies showed bronchopneumonia.” …
…”Camp Humphreys, Va., October 3, 1918.—On October 3 there were 314 cases of influenza in hospital and 2,183 in infirmaries (barracks specially set aside for this). The cases had not been evenly distributed through the command. The incidence here, as at Camp Dix, was much higher than among the white men. The number of whites was about three and one-half times the number of blacks, but the white had had 11 times as much influenza. Both here and at Camp Dix the negroes were all in tents and the white mostly in barracks”
(do you think the tents gave better ventilation and less viral loads?)
They have it at Drugstore.com in a cream form for $7 (and if I remember correctly, they have free shipping for orders over $25) albolene
I just love these time-travel dreams. :-) I had a grandfather in WWI; JWB perhaps you had a g-father, or a gg-father in there, too. I like to think he was coming back to lend you a hand now. Thumbs up to you, too, young man! (s)
I wonder what is in the albolene cream? Capascin? (sp?) (The active ingredient of hot peppers. That is supposed to have a strong anti-bacterial property.)
During a very stressful time years ago, my grandfather came to me once in a dream. We just stood on the top of a hill, silently, and he held my hand. Holding his strong hand allowed me to receive his caring, soothing, strong energy. Yes, he definitely came back to “lend me a hand”.
Some years ago when we were younger and more interested in those things, read that Albolene was very useful as a “personal lubricant” for, shall we say, intimate moments. Sure enough, found it on the bottom shelf of my local CVS, advertised to remove makeup it certainly worked. Oh, and my DW said it also did remove makeup and moisturize!
Green Mom – at 12:39 I would bet it was methiolate your mom painted on your scrapes. Red and burned like blazes. Made with mercury - no longer used, biohazard now. Iodine is used to clean water, vegies, etc.
Northstar - 18:16 Albolene Moisturizing Cleanser liquifies on contact with your skin to gently and thoroughly dissolve makeup, dirt, and even mascara.
INGREDIENTS: Mineral Oil, Petrolatium, Paraffin, Ceresin, Fragrance, Beta Carotene.
DIRECTIONS: Smooth on Albolene Moisturizing Cleanser, tissue off and see how much cleaner and softer your skin can be. Leaves no soap-and-water dryness. Used daily, Albolene helps skin stay soft and younger looking.
I’m guessing it’s the iodine that helped. And wearing the mask.
Beta carotene? What an interesting-interesting in a “wonder what made them think of adding THAT?” manner-ingredient to add to a face cream.
My grandmother used to use witch hazel as an astringent and mineral oil as a moisturizer. She was an avid fisherperson, out in the sun all the time, but her skin was soft and fairly wrinkle free.
crfullmoon – at 12:51 (do you think the tents gave better ventilation and less viral loads?)
Yes, that is one very definite conclusion that seems to be able to be made. Fresh circulating air seems to have been very helpful as was the use of tents, where weather allowed.
Uddar Norge commented on a mask thread that her country has plans to make use of this information, and she assumed that we here in the U.S. would be doing so as well by not planning to have centralized flu centers in gymnasiums, but instead using tents where possible and encouraging fresh air, etc. I had to reply that I did not know of any active plans to do that at all, anywhere here. Uddar then asked why we were not taking advantage of all everyone had learned in 1918. I just hope I am completely wrong about the current planning assmptions and have missed that particular part of some brilliant pan-flu planners’ genius plans. (I love it when I am wrong here).
TOURS, October 29,
To THE ADJUTANT GENERAL.
(For the Chief of Staff and Surgeon General.)
Convoy Antigone, 12 transports arriving Liverpool October 25, strength 19,154; cases pneumonia and influenza registers; deaths, pneumonia, 2; others sick, mumps, 80; measles, 33; chicken pox, 3. Transport Olympic arrived Southampton October 25; strength~ 5,430; influenza, 34; pneumonia, 2; no deaths. Mouth and nose masks worn day and nigh~. One per cent of iodine in albolene used as sprays. Three transports arrived Brest October 25; strength, 4,215; influenza, 26; pneumonia, 3; no deaths.
from: THE MEDICAL DEPARTMENT OF THE
UNITED STATES ARMY IN THE WORLD WAR
VOLUME VI: SANITATION
IN THE UNITED STATES
CHAPTER XVI
THE INFLUENZA EPIDEMIC OF 1918
ADMINISTRATIVE CORRESPONDENCE DEALING WITH THE CONTROL OF THE EPIDEMIC
BY
COLONEL D. C. HAVEN, MC
COLONEL W. P. CHAMBERLAIN, MC
MAJOR A. G. LOVE, MC
(link is one of those “long” links.) Google searched: medicinal effect albolene cream, iodine
ALBOLENE.Albolene is one of several liquid products of the petrolatum class of an oily and unctuous nature, white,odorless, bland, and more readily absorbed than vaseline or petrolatum. Like others of its class, it is softening and soothing to chapped and inflamed surfaces; and is an excellent base for ointments, not becoming rancid. It is used alone for spraying in nasopharyngeal diseases; or for dissolving eucalyptol, menthol, thymol and similar articles when these are required in diphtheria. scarlatina, and other nose and throat ulcerations. It is a desirableagent. Solid albolene resembles the white vaseline, and is used as a vehicle in preparing ointments.
Spraying in the nose? Yikes. I would think that stuff could be inhaled down the nasal passages and into the lungs. Then it could coat the lung tissue and cause serious problems.
But I wonder if it could be mixed with tea tree oil and used atopically?
Albolene — I remember using it when I was in high school to remove makeup. It is just the same as ‘cold cream’ mostly wax and parafin. Nothing special. You could just as well use Johnson’s baby cream (which will also open the pores and help you sweat — I used it after getting bad sunburns in order to keep sweating out perspiration so that blisters would not form under the skin.
Iodine kills bacteria and viruses
I found an article relating the virucidal activity of iodine, especially relating to H5N1. Here is the abstract:
“Objectives: On January 12, 2004, an outbreak of highly pathogenic avian influenza, caused by the H5N1 strain, occurred in a one-layer flock in Yamaguchi Prefecture, Japan. It had been 79 years since the last outbreak of avian influenza was confirmed in Japan. By February, 3 additional outbreaks had occurred (1 in Oita Prefecture and 2 in Kyoto Prefecture). Influenza viruses are enveloped viruses and are relatively sensitive to inactivation by lipid solvents, such as detergents. Infectivity is also rapidly destroyed by ether, sodium hypochlorite, povidone-iodine (PVP-I), peracetic acid and alcohol. However, these antiviral effects were only tested against human influenza A viruses. In the present study, the antiviral activity of PVP-I products against H5, H7 and H9 avian influenza A viruses, which had recently been transmitted to humans, were investigated. Methods: The in vitro antiviral activity of PVP-I products (2% PVP-I solution, 0.5% PVP-I scrub, 0.25% PVP-I palm, 0.23% PVP-I gargle, 0.23% PVP-I throat spray and 2% PVP-I solution for animals) against avian influenza A viruses [a highly pathogenic avian influenza virus, A/crow/Kyoto/T2/04 (H5N1; 106.5 EID50/0.1 ml), and 3 low pathogenic avian influenza A viruses, A/whistling swan/Shimane/499/838 (H5N3; 104.8 EID50/0.1 ml), A/whistling swan/Shimane/42/80 (H7N7; 105.5 EID50/0.1 ml) and A/duck/Hokkaido/26/99 (H9N2; 104.8 EID50/0.1 ml)] were investigated using embryonated hen’s eggs. Results/Discussion: Viral infectious titers were reduced to levels below the detection limits by incubation for only 10 s with the PVP-I products used in this study. These results indicate that PVP-I products have virucidal activity against avian influenza A viruses. Therefore, the PVP-I products are useful in the prevention and control of human infection by avian influenza A viruses.”
Betadine is a brand name for a 10% Povidone-iodine solution (1% available iodine). It is a commonly used skin antiseptic in hospitals:
Here is the Material Safety Data Sheet:
I also know that Betadine can be used as a nasal rinse for people who have chronic sinus infections (to decrease bacteria). My ENT doctor has suggested this for me. The directions are to use 8 oz of sterile water, plus 1/2 teaspoon pickling salt, plus 1/2 teaspoon baking soda, plus 4–6 drops of Betadine. One reason to use very small amounts of iodine in this solution is to avoid ingesting too much iodine. I have used this soultion for a long time, and I have had my thyroid levels checked which have shown no problem.
anonymous – at 12:10
I am sticking my neck out here, but I think it’s possible that you are time traveling in your sleep, not just dreaming. Keep at it and see what other wisdom you can bring forward from the past. It will only serve to help us all.
Other than bringing wisdom from the past, I sure would like the bring lottery numbers from the future! ;-)
crfullmoon – at 12:51
Very interesting. Social distancing, ventilation, oiled floors of the tents to keep down dust, heavy mask use, and alternating head - feet sleeping. Blacks having lower instances of flu, ratio wise, is interesting also. I wonder if that holds true today, and why?
Petticoat Junction – at 12:52
Thanks. I going to search at the local drugstores tommorrow.
Northstar – at 18:16
I just love these time-travel dreams. :-) I had a grandfather in WWI; JWB perhaps you had a g-father, or a gg-father in there, too. I like to think he was coming back to lend you a hand now. Thumbs up to you, too, young man! (s)
Northstar, as a matter of fact my grandfather did fight in the trenches in France during WWI! I had completely forgotten that. I’ll have to ask my mother if she has any records relating to his service.
stilearning – at 23:18
During a very stressful time years ago, my grandfather came to me once in a dream. We just stood on the top of a hill, silently, and he held my hand. Holding his strong hand allowed me to receive his caring, soothing, strong energy. Yes, he definitely came back to “lend me a hand”.
My grandfather had retired and moved to Florida by the time I was born. We became penpals until his death in 1971. We shared the same birthday. Maybe it was him in my dream. It sure is interesting.
So it looks like the iodine is the active agent in the mask and albolene was used as a base.
If you wore this mask day and night, for 8 days (ship travel time), I wonder if it would kill any viruses already in the lungs. And, what effect would it have on the thyroid?
Also, if albolene opens up skin pores, would breathing through albolene help to open up the lungs?
Pixie (and those in Norway): why we are not taking advantage of all everyone had learned in 1918? Because that would mean admitting pandemic wouldn’t be like a bad seasonal flu season, and they’d have to ditch those “for illustration purposes only” attack and cfr rates, and start telling the public about H5N1 then people might want to learn a few coping tips from 1918…
JWB, I think blacks were still being kept quite separate back then (remember the separate drinking fountains, ect?) and I read when the doctors couldn’t cut the troop movements, because the war dept “disapproved”, at least one guy said, well, if they won’t stop sending me new recruits, I’ll try and keep them from joining the sick; …” Two thousand negroes who arrived at the camp from civil life between two and five days ago, were put in an area by themselves and absolutely quarantined. The guard was most efficient and no officer or enlisted man could pass through without proper credentials. No influenza has occurred among these men
That, and the whites being in barracks, and the black in tents (fewer fomite surfaces to touch in a tent perhaps??) plus the general segregation; if the virus didn’t have much of a chance to get in, compared to whites whos movements and mixing were less contrained? If the cooler temperature and ventilation of tents helped cases not become fatalities?? Sure genetics plays some part in everything, but, I think each individual or family would be a better way to get information than whole groups.
Diffusing essential oils into the air with a special nebulizer (needs electricity- not the evaporative kind; a cold air diffuser) might help keep airborne loads down. If people weren’t allergic, and if it was an oil with the right properties.
( These people sell an alcohol/lavender oil pump bottle surface disinfectant -but, they don’t seem to be into websites. Used to be the only pump disinfectant on the store shelves, but now I have to order a box when I want any. I know some people were using it to clean the shared surfaces at their workplaces, and it helps with odors, disinfecting the bathroom when someone is sick, too.)
Wearing a mask also perhaps reminded people to not touch their faces, as well as limiting coughs and sneezes floating around the troop ships? (Putting Betadine on the shopping list anyway; I’ve walked past it in the pharmacy often enough, thinking maybe there’d be time for another trip, and would I really use some of this stuff? Can’t afford to get any sort of skin infection during pandemic…)
Problem with the lungs is there’s too much virus and too much immune response tearing up the lung cells - don’t see much way around that, except to try and avoid the virus.
Albolene is great stuff, but I doubt it has any active chemical properties-no more than petroleum jelly. I use it to remove eye makeup, it doesn’t burn the eyes at all. Very lubricating but not too sticky. Another poster mentioned “uses not mentionable on a public board”. A big thumbs up for that use :)
Using something like petroleum jelly or Albolene, along with Betadine is certainly interesting. What about using the jelly agent to make an N95 mask adhere better around the edges? Or using a Betadine covered bandana over an N95 mask?
These kinds of threads really make you think.
this is a book listed on Amazon when you search for ‘avian flu’. “Avian Flu H5N1, A Doctor’s Survival Guide, Medicine and Family Screening Tests available to help save your life. The QDEL test for families for Influeza A and B and Avian Flu, and Povidone Iodine”. Povidone Iodine is Betadine and he talks about it’s ability to kill avian flu virii and corresonding Japanese research. I haven’t read it yet, if someone has, please comment.
According to my friend Google, the oiled gauze air cleaner for cars is alive and well, and fileters particulates down to 5 microns, which is a bit larger than influenza virus at 0.1 microns. Oiled gauze can be washed and reoiled about 25 times. I suspect that it is the combination of oiled gauze and iodine (catch them and thenn kill them) that was working. Do not oil synthetics, it won’t work. I can’t find anything special about Albolene, just that one of its ingredients is mineral oil. They probably used what they had. ================= Albolene.
To make your own:
Gulf wax (used for canning): 1/2 of 1 bar Petroleum jelly: 4 tbs Mineral oil: 16 oz
Melt together the was and petroleum jelly. Add mineral oil. Heat slowly and after it’s all blended together, pour into a container and let it stand ‘til it hardens.
It would be very handy to have a way to make efficient masks in the event one’s supply ran out and one needed to go out.
The T-shirt mask would probably work fine with this technique—it has 8 layers. I have also read that gentian violet works much like betadine as a surface disinfectant on cotton. Stains the same way, too, just a different color. Choose one to go with your skin tone. The gauze has to be several layers deep for the oil filter trick to work.
EnoughAlready at 2:06 described 2 forms of Albolene-liquid and solid. Would it be easier to mix the iodine into a liquid or a solid? I suppose it would float on a liquid.
Lavendergrl at 14:00, did you see the research on using nylon stockings/pantyhose over the face (whole head) to seal the mask to the face? The scientist said it looks macabre, but does the trick. He also said masks can be reused after air drying (until they fall apart—?).
Jane— Don’t use albolene on paper masks. Don’t do it. Use with 100% cotton only, like they did. I don’t know whether the albolene would ruin the pantyhose. You need to try it. And when I get home, I will see how hard it is to breathe thru oily gauze. 8 layers of t-shirting is hard to breathe thru. Fold any handy t-shirt in half (4 layers), then in half again (8 layers). Now hold it over your face and breathe. Go ahead, try it.
Yesterday I wore a plain N-95 mask while cleaning the garage, and it steamed up my glasses and displaced them so the bifocals weren’t in the right place. It was hot, too. It would be really uncomfortable to have to wear all day. Thanks for the word about albolene and paper masks, disgruntled. The challenge you posted to breathe through 8 layers of Tshirt would be even tougher if the fabric were coated with a Vaseline-type substance.
I think that the albolene serves as some sort of agent that keeps the iodine from drying out, a moisturizing agent. Additional possibility of keeping it in a more active state. That article I posted said that albolene is a disolving agent. I wonder if it “disolves” mucous? And, are they talking guaze like in a bandage? That is pretty porous, as compared to a T-shirt.
What they are talking about is old-style gauze surgical masks: about 8 layers of gauze sewn with 4 ties in a rectangle. The albolene is not a dissolving agent, it is a trapping agent: it creates a sticky surface and the virus is trapped on it, like flypaper. The nice thing about it is that the dust particles and lint that it picks up absorb the oil, which helps trap even more particles. It keeps on working until it’s totally plugged up. This oiled gauze stuff is used in racing car air cleaners. The iodine is suspended in the oil and kills the virus on contact. Don’t use gauze compresses, they aren’t big enough. I will look up what the right material is for old-style gauze surgical masks. As I said before, I think T-shirt material in several layers would be a good substitute.
“The albolene is not a dissolving agent, it is a trapping agent: it creates a sticky surface and the virus is trapped on it, like flypaper. The nice thing about it is that the dust particles and lint that it picks up absorb the oil, which helps trap even more particles. It keeps on working until it’s totally plugged up.”
That sounds a lot like a tack cloth.
Jane - @ 19:32 What you need are N95 masks which have an exhalation valve to prevent moisture buildup. All the masks I have bought have such a valve. Don’t know other places to buy them, but mine were bought online at http://www.prepare-now.com/853.html
NauticalMan & Jane -
Here is the site where I purchased my masks. For the 3M 8511 N95, they are 10 for $14.10. This is a pretty good price.
Other masks like those also with a face shield, 3M 8211 N95, are also at a good price…10 for $18.25.
By the way JV, thanks for all that info at 04:01.
I bought a bottle of Betadine at Wallyworld yesterdee. As well as tape. Will soon begin to experiment, (smiling and wringing my hands together ;-D ).
I wonder if the cheaper “knockoff” stuff could be used in place of Alboline? I have a jar thats just a buck at Dollar General- ingrediants looks the same, though mine has vitamine E added.
Green Mom,
If I was making soup, I would use the cheaper stuff. But your life is on the line. It’s worth an extra $7, if not just for peace of mind.
http://www.jimronline.net/content/html/fullhtm.asp?ArticleID=426
This article describes a cotton-ball in-nose filter that sounds promising, especially with the Alboline or equivalent treatment. It might help on airplanes when you don’t want to look conspicuous.
Its not so much the price as it is availibilty-Im not sure I can FIND the Alboline without going on line- I KNOW I can get the other stuff-allready have it as a matter of fact. Walmart for me is a fourtyfive minent drive-I don’t even know where there is a CVS store.
I did want to say thanks for starting this thread-what else have you dreampt latetly? Say, why don’t you just have a nice lie down right now….take a little nap….nah, your boss won’t mind-your saving lives!….your getting sleepy…your getting sleepy…sleep,sleep sleep……(don’t forget to post your dreams when you wake up!)
;-) (disgruntled, if people start packing things in their nostrils, I think airport screening will become more problematic! And can you imagine that guy from the “sleeves” video sneezing cottonballs out his uncovered nose inflight?)
I don’t remember if Triosyn has been discussed re its use in respirators. They have produced a number of respirators with an iodine compound that are rated N95 - N99. Many are NIOSH approved.
Here is the Triosyn web site: http://tinyurl.com/yf8ovp
Here are presentation slides: http://tinyurl.com/yfhssf
Here is a discussion (found on the American Society for Microbiology web site) of different bioterrorism agents and protection for them, scoll down to #105(H) for a discussion of the Triosyn respirator:
I am not promoting this respirator at all, and I have none of them. I just thought that this was intersting to compare what has been done already with an iodine preparation in a respirator.
Green Mom – at 11:49
I thought you were talking about the Betadine.
The nap does sound good. ;-)
JWB,
This thread had me remembering an article I read recently on vitamins and avian flu. Did you happen to see this?
This does sound like a really worthwhile mask — will check into it.
p.s. not trying to hijack the thread!
Argyll
JV – at 12:58
Wow. I didn’t even know this existed. Sure sounds promising. Thanx. I’m definitely going to look into this deeper.
JWB -
They might be promising, but they are also expensive. For one with a vent, $9.95.
I have in my medicine cabinet a small ‘toothpaste’ type tube of “Betadyne Ointment” that I bought in the first aid department of drug store, right up there with the neosporin and other antibiotic ointments. I used it when I had some cuts on my arm that were not healing and looked like they were becoming infected even while using the antibiotic ointments — as soon as I put it on, the red went away and it all healed up pretty quickly. Might consider using it on a mask —
disgruntled – at 23:59
What I meant about “dissolving agent” was --- I was wondering if it somehow aided in loosening up mucous. Just wondering.
Thanks for the explaination of it being like a glue-trap! And, about the guaze masks. So, these masks (T-shirt material) would be like those in the simple mask discussions?
JWB: “There are strips of adhesive for fastening the mask over the mouth and nose.” :)
crfullmoon – at 07:40
What’s the difference in the Red Cross Nurse in a spray can and a homemade spray bottle of bleach water or lysol? Also, about the “Diffusing essential oils into the air with a special nebulizer”--- are you talking about a humidifier as opposed to a vaporizer? I know what a nebulizer is… the hand held kind. I am just wondering about any chance of affordable stuff. AND… about those tents… IMHO, air and sunlight probably provided sanitation/disinfection.
EnoughAlready – at 15:30 JWB: “There are strips of adhesive for fastening the mask over the mouth and nose.” :)
At wallyworld they had 3 types of tape. Cloth, plastic, and paper. I bought the plastic roll. The other two were too porous. This weekend I’m going to try it out. I don’t want to try it till then. All I need is to show up at work with a thick reddish line (from the tape) around my face and also possible yellow staining form the iodine!
Hmmm. Need a sniglet for that.
Neither lysol or bleach should be sprayed where it can get in the eyes or onto food. Lysol contains phenol which is pretty toxic, which is why it kills germs. Essential oils may cause rashes in allergic people. And oils will eventually stick to the walls, ceiling, and furniture and create a greasy, dusty mass like that stuff over the stove vent. Spraying strong bleach onto clothing, furniture and curtains will cause them to disintegrate, and will make bleach spots. Try to think this stuff through, and try it out before you commit to anything.
…”like that stuff over the stove vent”… ah, another undone chore reminder…
Would sure be easier if the whole county was preparing to try not to get each other sick, and preparing to cope with contingencies while we’re “on our own”…
If the masks are for daily wear, tape will be too irritating, imo. That’s the good thing about the pantyhose/nylons, they hold the mask tightly to your face. If you keep applying and tearing off tape, won’t it get painful and become more vulnerable to infection? It might make the skin on your face equally (or more likely to) accept infection from the virus than mucous membranes do. (I’m not a medical person, I’m just imagining.)
On the other hand, if the tape makes irritated red marks, could you use cloth over the mask so you can put the tape in a different place? How many times can you enlarge the mask?
Jane – at 16:32
I’m sure it would take some experimenting (before panflu) to figure out what works without too much skin irritation. The bottom line is what is in the links in my original post. The mask they wore on that ship 88 years ago apparently worked. That’s why I plan on experimenting soon. These make at home mask, if they work, would save ten’s of millions of lives. Now I realize I personnally can’t test it with H5N1, but at least I could contribrute to the construction/instructions of them.
In 1918 they must of had a lot of confidence and success with those mask…
On the second link:
The Red Cross has delivered to hospitals, camps and transports 200,000 gauze mask of the kind worn on the 35,000 ton liner which made last week’s record, and is now making 500,000 more mask.
“I did want to say thanks for starting this thread-what else have you dreampt latetly? Say, why don’t you just have a nice lie down right now….take a little nap….nah, your boss won’t mind-your saving lives!….your getting sleepy…your getting sleepy…sleep,sleep sleep……(don’t forget to post your dreams when you wake up!)”
I’m glad I wasn’t drinking my diet Pepsi when I read that or I would probably need a new monitor.ROFLOL!
Trying to get side scroll fixed
working on it..
do not put a space before a sentence
like this.
Somewhere (maybe here) I read an account written by a doctor that was a medical student during the 1918 pandemic. He and his fellow students were pressed into service treating flu patients in an emergency type setting. The future docs and the nurses were masked the whole time and they ended up losing not a single person on the staff…and they say masks don’t help. I think they have to do at least some good. Even the primitive gauze masks were better than nothing.
On the back label of both a bleach bottle and lysol concentrate bottle are instructions for dilution ratios… along with cautions. I’ve been making my own spray bottles for nearly 30 years. I was just curiously wondering what was in the Red Cross Nurse stuff, because it didn’t say on the website. sheesh
JWB @ 2:34: Can you imagine what it would have been like: There’s a mustard gas attack on the front lines. You stumble out of the line of attack, and there stands a woman in her nightclothes, looking at you with a dazed stare. She doesn’t have a mask! You hand her one, she clumsily puts it to her face, and you give her the thumbs up. You can’t stay, it’s too smoky, so you head for the trenches. You never know what happens to the strange woman, out on the battlefield.
How’s that for a war story? :-)
Northstar @ 19:13
Sounds like a movie. It seemed real to me. The only part of your story line that I don’t like is the nightgown. My wife wouldn’t approve, I stretched her last one. ;-D
Plus, if he see’s a woman in a nightgown with large mustache, he may just take off his mask and run towards the gas.
{{SNORT!}} LOL! Sorry about that gender-blender-fender-bender there, JWB!
Today I purchased: Povidone Iodine Ointment, USP, 10%(iodine 1%) in a 1 oz tube (equivalent of betadine ointment.) It was the only box on the shelf, and the only one I saw 6 stores I went to. I also bought a bottle of Povidone-Iodine solution 10% (1% iodine) in an 8 oz bottle. At another store purchased an 8 oz bottle of Betadine solution (providone-iodine 10%/ 1 iodine)… which is by far the cheapest at less than $2 (the others ranged from $12-$16.) I couldn’t find albolene at any store.
While shopping I kept trying to figure out how this mask would work, and how expensive it could be to outfit one person as well as an entire family. One thing I was wondering, it says to soak the mask in the solution. That could be a drippy mess. I was thinking about a pocket inside the mask to hold saturated “pad”. I’m not sure about this idea, just a thought. Mixing this together is going to be a challenge… without the “recipe.” I am wondering if the albolene is smeared onto the mask before it is soaked in the iodine solution. That seems more manageable. Honestly, I think I’d just spray the iodine solution onto the mask rather than soak it. Think that would work?
I was thinking that the iodine gets mixed with the cream and thins it out, then smear the stuff onto the outer side of the mask. Although all the photos of people in masks show bright white masks, not stained brown.
EnoughAlready and others….
In my scarce free time I’ve been searching for the recipe. This is where I found the articles that started this thread: http://tinyurl.com/trnwp
Very nice searchable site of Stars and Stripes, compliments The Library of Congress.
If you search using flu, mask, gauze, etc., you will get many hits. The search words are slightly highlighted in the thumbprint view, and you can move it around, zoom, etc.
I got lots of hits but it takes time to get through them. I only did a couple today.
Goodluck! The treasure hunt is on.
If I had to guess how the mask were constructed, I’ld say 4 layers of gauze, 1 layer of soaked gauze, and 4 more layers of gauze. That way the soaked layer never gets dirty from the outside and the it doesn’t touch your face on the inside. But I sure would like to see the real deal from 1918. The afore mentioned article states the Red Cross made 200,000 initially with 500,000 on the way. I would think that it was documented on how to mix the solution and construct the mask, complete with dimensions, etc. It’s just a matter of finding it.
has anyone heard of the herb called “ angelica “ ? It is supposed to fight virus’, and people used it to fight pandemic in 1918
Thanks everyone for a great thread. I’m a bit confused though about the proportion of iodine solution to albolene. JWB’s original post said:
These mask consist of a square of gauze which is saturated with a one percent solution of iodine in albolene.
Assuming that the aforementioned 1% solution of iodine is the same strength as Betadine, which is 10% Povidine-iodine (PVP) solution; would a person want to dilute an iodine solution already at 1% with 99 parts of albolene? It seems that preparation might dilute the iodine too much for optimum efficacy. But I might be wrong.
Is there any decent information available regarding the proportion of 1% iodine solution to albolene, used in the 1918 masks? Thanks!
beehiver
I was thinking the same thing, and I am at this very moment searching the National Archives for details of this mask. As soon as I find it I will post it.
beehiver
I was thinking the same thing, and I am at this very moment searching the National Archives for details of this mask. As soon as I find it I will post it.
Thanks JWB! When time permits over the next few weeks, I am planning on making some of this albolene-iodine preparation. I just did an experiment breathing through 4 layers of cotton t-shirt, and yea it is more work to breathe. I don’t doubt dipping one or more layers of the cotton in the albolene prep would make it even harder. Would probably be difficult to use any mask if doing physical labor, or in hot & humid conditions. But I’d rather have something than not at all. And based on track record in 1918, I am leaning towards having this homemade mask on hand, or at least the materials to make it. Much appreciation to you.
bumping, very important thread
I know abolene was used before, and that may have been the best compund to use at the time (and they may not have had many from which to pick. What I was wondering is if some other compound might be even better today. This might be a good question for someone with a chemistry or compounding background. Maybe even a pharmacist.
I am not indicating that these iodine masks are the answer. I really don’t know. I am just trying to help out in this search for an answer.
the “ Angelica” I mentioned @8:33, was told to a monk in a dream, that it would fight pan-flu, back in 1918, I am just wondering if anyone else knew that.
I just went and read the newspaper artical that the original poster gave links too.
It stated that on the one ship of 5000 men not one man had DIED of flu or pneumonia but that the medical officers had found 34 men that were INFECTED with either flu or pneumonia.
Also, they had 17 ships come in in a 2 day period. Almost 29K men, 2 died of pneumonia and 130 were sick with either flu or pneumonia.
So there were sick men, but not many died.
Carrey,
I don’t know how I missed that sentenced! I must have have been blinded by the sentences before it, since it was what I was looking for. Thanks.
After much searching on the net, I haven’t been able to find details on the mask. However, the Red Cross has a museum in Virgina, (near Falls Church), in which I believe would be the likely place for it. I’ve tried contacting them by phone and fax but no luck in a week. Maybe a fluwikian in Virginia can stop in and check it out.
Red Cross Museum
I`ve been thinking. (I know, very rare) ANd, what I came up with is this. So, they used Aboline mixed with iodine. That would have made an ointment. Why can`t one just use Betadine oinment ?
Another random thought. Do any of you youngsters have a kid that needs a science fair project? Wouldn`t this experiment make a great one?
I found this on the web re angelica. I have no idea if it would work http://www.vitaminstuff.com/herbs-angelica.html
Commission E, the panel of experts in Germany that evaluates the safety and effectiveness of herbal treatments, recommends angelica for treatment of indigestion and flatulence. German studies also found that angelica does indeed relax the windpipe, and may be effective for treating colds, flu, bronchitis, and asthma.
Angelica supplements and tinctures are available at most health stores. Be sure to follow the dosage instructions on the package, because this herb can be toxic. You could also try one of the “hormone balancing” teas or capsules sold in many pharmacies and health food stores—these usually contain some form of angelica.
Angelica is though to induce menstruation, and should not be taken by pregnant women. People with a history of atherosclerosis or heart attack should also avoid this herb, as should anyone that has a history of photosensitivity—angelica contains psoralens, which are chemicals that can cause some sun-sensitive people to have an allergic reaction to sun exposure.
cactus — 06 December 2006, 15:12
good idea, but how would you test it?
LOL,that`s why it`s a teen science project.
I bet they could test some bacteria,tho. I remember a friend of DD doing one about NM green chilis inhibiting bacteria. She went to National finals with that. Years ago.
Bumped for PFI users