As all the little munchkins and ankle biters are knocking on your door this Halloween saying trick or treat, and expecting a handout of some candy goodies, just remember that after about 1 week of failed food deliveries to the grocery stores, those same munchkins, with their parents, are going to be knocking on your door looking for food.
Since I live in a golf course community surrounded by higher density developments, we get a lot of non neighborhood kids coming over to the “rich” side with their parents looking to score the better handouts. I can guarantee you that they will have the same idea come food shortage time.
Maybe I should dress up as the grim reaper and hand out a neighborhood flyer detailing the risk of a pandemic, the need to stock up and prepare, and the distasteful need to organize a community posse to protect our neighborhood.
Of course, in real life, that won’t happen, and I am at a loss of how really to prepare. Food, Weapons, alternative energy supplies, water and water purification I have. What I don’t have is the emotional ability to prevent a mob of hungry kids and desperate parents from invading my home. (Shooting male Adult or Adults to prevent them from entering and infecting my family?, yes. Shooting kids and desperate mothers, no. And at what age does a male kid become an adult?)
The idea of a “rich” enclave banding together to keep out the “lower class” is too absurd to even contemplate. Maybe I should start shopping for a mountain retreat.
temp man – at 11:16 The idea of a “rich” enclave banding together to keep out the “lower class” is too absurd to even contemplate. Maybe I should start shopping for a mountain retreat.
Maybe you should start trying to educate those in outlying neighborhoods and spend some of your riches on stockpiling extra food for those less fortunate that you.
I could easily drop a K on beans and rice and it wouldn’t bother me. How long do you expect I would get to keep it once word got out? Can you say government confiscation?
Trust me. I have thought of every possible scenario. The Japanese have a great saying. Something along the lines of the nail head that sticks up is the one that is pounded back down.
temp man – at 11:16
It’s the classic fluwiki moral dilemma, you don’t want to turn away hungry women and children, yet you don’t have the resources to prep for your entire community. Been there, lost the sleep, don’t have an answer.
I do have extra beans, rice and Ramen. How long they will last and how much good they will do remains to be seen.
Temp man, that grand spent on “survial” packs could be made up, then these could be dropped off at your local foodbank, church, school, or other community location when the time comes.
“ hand out a neighborhood flyer detailing the risk of a pandemic, the need to stock up and prepare, “ Here’s one county that did tell; Public urged to stock up on items in case of pandemic
Why the heck not?
Candy bar for the kid, and a roll of paper or an envelope marked For The Parent (hopefully they won’t think it’s a trick.. hm…)
The Pandemic Awareness Cards look pretty good, and they do have HHS Leavitt, and the guv link has all those checklists for schools, businesses, and families; why not make sure your neighbors, or wanderers, get the memo from last Halloween?
Back when the feds said they can’t help during a pandemic; get busy figuring out how to cope on the local level. (The WHO’s Ten things you need to know about pandemic influenza, reduced to just the first sentence of each, would work on a flyer, with the Flu Wiki Awareness Press Release on the other.)
(The fake headstones in the yard and other “decorations”; body parts sticking out of the ground, skulls, ect, just are going to seem so ironic in suburbia to me this year.)
See any police officers, (ask about security plans) or, walk past the firehouse (ask how they can inform unprepared people about safety measures before power outtages and no help), say Hi and give them the Pandemic Awareness cards, too, tell ‘em to take a look, pick a nickname and get on the forum. They’d be welcome.
If no one prepares, because a bad pandemic is so foreign to our experience, neighborhood watches will not be needed as much as “Bring out your dead” carts and shovels and strong gravediggers will be, once the fuel runs dry. Are cemetery neighbors willing to, ah, pitch in?
Donations to Second Harvest Food Bank might help somewhat. I don’t know if they are making any plans for a pandemic. They are national and are able to stretch a dollar farther than any individual could. In fact they prefer to get donations of money rather than food (they don’t want people buying food and taking it to them, because they could get much more food if you just gave them the money). They distribute food to local pantries.
But even they won’t be able to solve the problem if there is a serious pandemic that puts a lot of people out of work and/or causes food distribution problems. My local Second Harvest generally is barely able to keep up with demand as it is, and if there are distribution problems, Second Harvest might not be able to get food any more than anyone else.
A lot of poor people don’t even have enough food to put on the table every night. I don’t know if telling them they need to stock up is going to do a heck of a lot of good. I’m on the poor end. I know.
Temp man…If you have the extra grand to spend please do it.Turn it in to the food banks in your area.Lately with taxes(county)due,insurance due,fuel costs for winter weather(panflu or not)I find my only prep option is to scrounge the neighborhood for peoples leftover produce (gardens and fruit trees) and preserve it.I really dont see anyone else doing this.Now I dont consider us poor folks,but I think we fall into that catagory if you count our income and family size.Truthfully I more fear the rich folks who ignored the threat to be coming to this poor family(whose wife was that freak who feared the situation and scrimped to put away food) for their help.I guess there are more important things than having your kids school pictures for this year but I only hope grammy understands.
Here in Jersey we have the highest costs for housing in the entire country. People use more of their income on that than anywhere else. I think many are pinched in the pocketbook , though they may not say so or look it. Very few people will say openly how tight their budgets are.
And what separates the rich from the poor? Usually a family disaster. Loss of job. Serious illness,a stroke, a drunk driver hits you and you are paralyzed from the neck down . . .
For most people it only takes one month to two months before you could lost it all. And then there is no “we are the rich/they are the poor”. I have a very dear friend who remembers the most distinct scenes from childhood. Those being church folks (strangers) bringing food to his family. The family wouldn’t have survived had it not been for the kindness of strangers. It made an incredible impression on him, transforming him to choose a job where he could make an impact in life.
What you share with someone one day, may not only save their life, but have life-long, life-changing effects. Anticipate being able to help in a pandemic in whatever capacity you can manage.
temp man - Since you can afford so much in your “rich enclave” why not drop some of that extra dough you have on a few cases of hand gel to hand out to all the kiddies at Halloween? This way you can accomplish two things: You can make sure they won’t come knocking on your door next year, and the greedy little poor kids from the wrong side of town can clean the candy (gotten from your kinder neighbors) and germs from their hands. Most of those mountain folk wouldn’t want the likes of a greedy gus like you spoiling their mountain retreat.
Just to make myself clear, “Candy bar for the kid, and a roll of paper or an envelope marked For The Parent” - only if you see a parent out with their kid;
hand the card, flyer, or roll of paper, to the Parent, was what I meant.
Repeating myself (I hope they are stocking up their households); See any police officers, (ask about security plans) or, walk past the firehouse (ask how they can inform unprepared people about safety measures before power outtages and no help), say Hi and give them the Pandemic Awareness cards, too, tell ‘em to take a look, pick a nickname and get on the forum. They’d be welcome.
Poppy, good idea
a bottle of hand sanitizer, a tooth brush and one of the phamplet others here are working on, that ought to make sure the “ankle biters” don’t come back next year. Jeez some people.
Poppy — where did you come up with greedy gus? The guy is apparently willing to donate a thousand dollars to feed those less fortunate than he is. So he’s not poor, that doesn’t make him greedy. He’s worried about his family’s safety. Aren’t we all?
temp man:
you are right “the nail head that sticks up is the one that is pounded back down”
I guess that fear transcends from rich to poor.Or poor to rich….Thats why I continue to can foods like a madwoman.We have alot of home canned foods now.More than we could use in 2 years I would guess but I continue to procure and preserve foods everyday if I can get the jars which do seem to keep coming in one way or another.I do it because I know others aren’t doing it.If I had cash to buy these foods I would buy it and save my back.I don’t so I pick and peel and can.The food banks won’t take homecanned foods,but I know it will go out to those in need.Maybe at some point they will change their policy and I can have some space back.Just cause Temp man my live in a “rich”neighborhood does not make him greedy and I hope he and others in his position will spend the bucks and turn it in to the food banks.Let them worry about distrubution.The more food in these places available if tshtf the better.
Hmmm. Well, when I grew up, meatloaf extended with oatmeal was a special treat, I had to share my bed with another sibling till I was 11, and shoes were mostly for school.
Since my wife and I both gave up very lucrative careers (requiring 60+ hours per week of hard work) 6 years ago to work with the disadvantaged, I’d say my bonafides probably far exceed the average “rich” guy.
Again, the point is, what to do? I work everyday with large public and private charities, and the level of corruption and cronyism would make your heart break.
Giving food to a food bank sounds good. Till you realize that the moment a pandemic breaks out the same food will disappear not to those who need it most, but to either the operators of the food bank (god helps those who help themselves…Well I can’t help the poor if I’m dead…. Trust me, I’m really here to help others…), or the first group of “officials” who have a better idea of distribution methods. Talk about throwing your money away….
Cynical? Lady, till you work the bottom layer of society and their so called “support” systems, you don’t know what greed really is. Rich guys stealing from rich guys, that’s called business. Average joes stealing/graft/kickbacks/favors/good buddy deals/ that hurt those in need, now that’s greed.
What about religious distribution methods? Well, to be honest, some are definitely better than others, but as a former Catholic, I am pretty unhappy with the things done in the name of God lately. The Mormons probably have their head on straightest when it comes to prepping, but do you really want a religion to come out on top who believes that JC took a vacation to America? How about the religion of peace, you know, the Muslims. Maybe some fundamentalist christian groups whose leaders really do believe in the golden rule, you know, the one where they get to live in big houses and take great trips to “recharge” their faith on the backs of their poor flock who truly do believe? Of course, do I really want folks who believe a loving and just deity that just wiped out humanity saved them through the gift of food? Don’t take me there.
And while I am on a rant… Do you know who are the worst people in American society today? I work everyday with people who have the most reason to be bitter about life. And the ones we hate to work with the most? It’s the ones who qualify for free stuff, instead of having to scrape together some sort of payment for services. The sense of entitlement, the expectation of everyone having to drop what they are doing to due their bidding because they deserve it. And most of the time, these same individuals are playing the system, as they could afford to pay, but have figured out to get it free. I cannot tell you how many times I have been cussed out over the phone by these people, while those who are much, much, worse off are much more dignified and grateful for assistance.
Money is a scorecard, nothing more, nothing less. Ethics and morality, on the other hand, is about the person. What is the moral and ethical thing to do in the face of pandemic? Can one save their family (yes, I have ankle biters of my own) without the assistance of a clan, community, or neighborhood, or are we going to be forced to coalesce into groups of survivors after the fact.
Sometimes I welcome the idea of a pandemic. Mostly I am terrified. What about you?
Terrified, both by the viruses, and average human nature/the systems they’ve made. But, this is our only ride through history -whatcha gonna do?? (shrug)
Our world has regressed into a cold hard place.Maybe it always was but it seems worse today than when I was 25.Truthfully if there was a way that the virus would just target the asses of the world,I would say bring it on.Maybe I am terrrified cause I might not slip out of that group.Who knows.I guess it is time to get canning ;)
temp man, here in my town the major food bank rakes it in. I always thought the concept was wonderful, until I found out that ANYONE who had a minister’s credentials could walk in there and buy whatever food they wanted for 12 cents a pound… and such credentials can be easily bought for very little. Then these wonderful “ministers” take the food out and either stock their own larders with it or re-sell it. What a scam.
Yes, it’s a nice idea, but I wouldn’t give them a dime or a can of beans because of the corruption involved.
I have contemplated these very issues many times. We could be stocked to the rafters and wind up contracting the flu in a grocery store days before the we’ve made the decision to shelter in place. Who will be in control of my household then? For me, I came to the conclusion long ago that none of my preps REALLY belong to me. I believe that it was through the Lords blessings that I became engaged in the subject matter, developed a plan, and then had the resources to little, by little eek out provisions. I believe in the Lords Prayer and I beleive that it will be His will that is done. Not mine. I pray that if AI ever becomes a pandemic that he will send “helpers” to our door. I am at great peace with it all. The burden of worrying about having to plan for every little contingency beyond what I can realistically prepare for or control has been lifted. No, I am not a right winger or ultra-conservative. I guess you could say that these are the kinds of circumstances that test, elevate, or restore your faith. I do not write to offend anyones beleif system…just as I have not been offended in the past when others have shared theirs. And no, I am not preaching (that would be against wikie rules) I am simply sharing how “I” choose to procede through what might prove to be a very challenging time. I read the Sunday Sermonettes that the Revers post. While I may not agree, I am grateful that we live in a society where the right to believe or not believe is preserved.
hmmm very interesting… it appears you are already doing the community thing and your conscious should be reasonably clear. My first thought is if you can’t put up barriers, walls or something to protect your home and family, you should stock the material for the “time” when the rules are chucked out the window. Also given your economic situation it would seem prudent to invest in property somewhere you feel “safe” and plan on being there. I’m sure you are wise enough to get on friendly terms with the locals in that new location. Perhaps it’s them you need to concentrate on prepping.
as to kids and the neighbors exterior to your enclave…. enjoy your last halloween, forget about messages to parents and go adopt a fire station in the neighboring area. Feel them out about bird flu and your concerns for the area. Ask them if it might be possible to store a supply of basic items. Of course if they are crooks, then we’re all screwed. Go directly to plan B and get cracking on setting up that retreat.
occasionally think in a very fleeting way about the good a pandemic might bring.. reality quickly snaps me back to the shear hell and mayhem it will certainly cause and I forget those whimsical thoughts of population adjustment and political realignment
smacks my head on the table a couple of times to scramble my brains and stop me from sounding like you :-)
Temp Man, I think in one way or another we have all been where you are now. The first time I came home with my preps, I looked at them on the kitchen floor and realised that there are a LOT of families whom could not afford that life saving luxury and it upset me deeply. I posted on the subject and became aware that everyone else felt the same.
Daniel - I am not Christian but I could relate totaly to where you’re at. My own faith is very strong and it has allowed me to accept that I will not be able to save the world. I may not even be able to save myself or my family, as hard as I try. I am at peace with our preps because I feel that I’ve done my best and that it’s now beyond my control.
I think that we are all prepping a little extra for others, the real test will come when it’s time to use our preps.
God help us all
Why is it that you are automatically assumed to be “greedy” if you have a high disposable income and work 70 hrs a week ?
I must be one of the evil greedy ones I guess. I also paid a HELL of a lot in taxes last year that supported some REALLY greedy people. LOL.
When you walk voluntarily into a burning building at 3 a.m. doing a primary search for a kid, then come talk to me about ethics and morals.
I’d recommend the mountain enclave.
It’s worked for me so far.
Interesting that this is the first thread on the wiki that’s really managed to piss me off.
I don’t think most of us (any of us?) will really know until we get there. How far will you go to protect your family and supplies? Depends on who’s doing the threatening.
Is it a crazed father with two hungry little girls who’s wife is dead from BF? Or a band of nasty people, looking to steal and hurt? Big difference if you ask me.
My gosh, if it was the former, unless I only had a couple of days worth of preps left, I’d be leaving whatever I could for them at the doorstep. I pray to God that someone would do the same for my little boys.
I think it’s going to be quite unpredictable. In some places worse than we may have feared, in others, not as bad.
I agree about small communities (neighborhoods) banding together. Even if it’s just via telephone. Keeping tabs on each other and looking out for one another. You can’t beat that, and you probably won’t be able to count on the authorities. I’m sure they will have their hands quite full defending pharmacies and hospitals.
Daniel, I’m about where you’re at: almost to the point of being as prepped as I can realistically be, and putting the rest in God’s hands.
I think we will be making decisions daily on difficult matters, and as long as we prepare ourselves mentally for the probability, we’ll be more able to handle it.
Too much fear of all the unknowns is not conducive to wise decision-making, although running certain scenarios through your head beforehand sure seems like a good idea.
I hope we are all able to get through this O.K., and are able to keep any goodness in our character intact, as difficult as it will probably be.
You are all awesome…. :)
By the way, weapons are a great deterrent, and I am definitely not beyond putting a slug in a weirdo that truly threatens my family. I just can’t get myself to feel like it’s safe to have a gun anymore now that I have two little boys. I got rid of it several years ago, and never got another. Maybe I’ll just keep the black plague flag on the door from beginning to end. ……yeah, no one will figure that out… he he….
Well, I’ll just have to figure something out. :)
temp man – at 11:16
P.S. Who’s to say that you are one of the smarter well-off neighbors that prepped? I’m sure there’ll be plenty that had the bucks to do so, but didn’t prep a thing. How would strangers really know the difference? Seriously? If someone came bothering you or threatening you for your preps, tell them: “I haven’t eaten in three days, buddy, and your looking kind of good right now.” Maybe he’ll take the hint. :^)
You have heard of “suicide by cop”. My nightmare is “suicide by prepper”, a large group of unarmed people who know they can be killed by you and half-hope that you will as they slowly approach your home to take what they can and occupy it for the night. In my waking nightmare they just keep coming, more than a dozen of them. If you let them in, you are exposed and your preps are gone and you lose control of the situation, and they maybe even throttle you and your family in your sleep.
I think this is a likely scenario and a true manifestation of Hell on Earth.
I keep coming back to the question of individual welfare vs. societal welfare. I have done as much as I think possible and reasonable for my family, and if perchance we find ourselves in the thick of the worst mayhem, we will just have to do the best we can. Millions may die, we may be part of that. Or not.
The 17th century was a time of almost continual plague and famine in Britian, but it was also a time when medicine stopped relying on dogma and began relying on science. The microscope was invented. Isaac Newton published “Principia Mathematica.” Great strides were made in providing medical care, education and decent living conditions for all citizens, not just the privileged. Habeas Corpus Act was instituted. People were no less corrupt, greedy or uncaring than they are now. Yet civilization roared on. Not much consolation for plague victims, but of continuing benefit for us today.
So (back to our possible situation) while we can’t feed everyone, perhaps there are other things equally important to society that we can do. While most of us aren’t going to make breakthroughs in public health, we can act on the small scale.
I was thinking that while giving to a food bank is a great thing (or maybe not depending on your experience) giving of ourselves might have bigger rewards. After all, when things get uncertain you want people coming to you for your advice, not your stuff. Being able to council people about social distancing, handwashing, and keeping a sick child rehydrated will save a life as much as giving them a can of beans. So, if you mentor a teenager who looks to you for advice, or you teach a little class about how to stock a pantry, or you volunteer to teach first-graders how to wash their hands, you may be the first step in a chain of knowledge that will help many.
I was also thinking that if I went to my fire department and told them they should stockpile food and equipment for a pandemic, they might be interested but nothing would really happen. However, if I said I had a storage shed somewhere, and I had $1000 to begin stocking that shed with equipment to be used by the fire departement in a pandemic emergency, I might get somewhere. Asking people to play a role other than providing all the money and doing all the work usually gets you somewhere.
Don’t mean to sound like I’m telling people what they should do, my point is more that by acting outside of the box we can possibly make as much or more of a difference than anguishing about how we can’t feed the whole city. Hungry hoards of people raiding your house isn’t the only outcome to a pandemic. There are other scenarios. Those other scenarios are the ones I concentrate on.
Just wanted to share my favorite quote from Hannah More (emphasis on the last word):
Sorry this is disjointed. It is part of a multi-volume set of sermons I am currently writing. ;-)
Medical Maven, you are a tru bummer dude.
anonymouse at 16:37-Reality is not as we would wish it to be. Read “Fatal Shore” by Robert Hughes (sp). When Australia was turned into a penal colony unimaginable situations beyond the pale of human propriety occurred. “Andersonville” about a Civil War penal camp is another eye-opener. Extreme scarcity begets extreme behavior.
The most persistant voices here are also the most doom and gloom. Just because you say it over and over doesn’t make it any truer. Medical Maven doesn’t know what will happen. There is a chance there will be extreme scarcity and extreme behavior, and a chance there won’t.
I think there are a lot of non-doom-and-gloom people here, but I for one just don’t feel like arguing about it. If H5N1 turns pandemic, it could end up nasty, it might be doom-and-gloom. It might not. I don’t know. I’ve studied enough history to know what can happen when things turn nasty and what happens afterwards. I just don’t feel like talking about it much.
Actually, to be perfectly honest, sometimes the doom-and-gloom threads can get surreal and combined with a couple glasses of RWFK, they can be pretty entertaining.
Maybe I’m just too tired these days to be able to worry about it seriously. Too many if’s involved. I’ve got paying the damn mortgage to worry about now. So when I have time I read the doom-and-gloom threads and fantasize about my mortgage lender disappearing off the face of the earth.
the solution is the problem
but don’t listen to me
Guys, I’m feeling more than a little “blowback” on my honest assessments of where we are headed with a still too high CFR colliding with a worldwide Just-In-Time supply system. Tell me where I am wrong. Is this a polite “tea party” in which some things are better left unsaid and unexplored?
I truthfully have thought about censoring myself because I know some of the things that I may say could be upsetting to some posters. But unless I put it out there how do I know that you have not explored those particular possibilities in your mind?
And also I don’t know how “waking nightmares” on this thread are more disturbing that possibly prophetic (and horrific) dreams on another thread.
Just as the posters on that thread are self-exorcising by exploring their dreams I am self-exorcising by thinking of the worst-case scenarios and then trying to figure how to mitigate those possible situations.
And I have also noted the strong possibility that one or more regular posters are scurrying for cover under an “alias” when voicing concerns about the “gloom and doom” mindset of myself and others. Let me assure you I will not belittle you or think ill of you if you in the future post those concerns under a “name” that I can recognize and know.
Sahara,Your sermon clip was awesome.
Medical Maven,Thanks for sharing,as depressing as it may be.
It’s a big pot of soup,this world,The carrots are so different from the tomatoes,yet together it taste good.to some,others hate it.
Malachi at 22:01-That last sentence of yours was like something straight out of a Toaist text. It tasted good to me. : )
:) If I can stick with the iching instead of the ahchoo It’ll be all good.
Okay, I’ll say it. I think that there is getting to be an extreme amount of doom and gloom here on fluwikie. I’m a regular poster here and am posting under my “regular alias”. I have referred several friends and colleagues here and the amount of extreme gloom and doom “doomed” their decision to follow anything here. (It really freaked a few of them out) I stopped referring colleagues here when I asked for feedback. And, I also have felt less motivated to continue posting here as my interest is looking for solutions for specific issues and not sack cloth and ashes and estreme crystal-balling the future.
Well, I guess that kills my chances of getting any more recipes and it’s time to choose a new alias?
Solutions for specific issues already exist here.
One just needs to do a thorough search. There are MANY of them.
The wikie has matured, and some posters have moved on past basic prepping to the cerebal pursuits of “what if”.
A high CFR has jolted many of us.
This scares some people here. Especially those that are early on the acceptance curve.
It’s out of their comfort zone.
So should those of us who are mostly prepped just not post for fear of scaring off the newbies ?
I don’t think that’s a realistic solution.
Do you ?
oh, come on Bird Guano. You’re one of the most intelligent and well-written amongst us. I’m not telling those kneeling on the fluwikie streetcorners tossing dust over themselves to stop posting. Noooooooo waaaaaay! lol!
And, there are not solutions for certain specific issues here on fluwikie. There are a great deal of issues dealing with community needs, medical needs, government preparedness, etc that have yet to be explored.
I just think that some of the energies utilized in writing doom-and-gloom themes and the prophetic imaginings could be put to better and more productive use. Work on the infrastructure and you avoid some of the doom-and-gloom.
But, I will admit that there is a side to me that reads and ponders some of the more creative posts in the doom-and-gloom areas. Sort of like “Fractured Fairy Tales”
I have found it helpful to advise those I refer here that some of the threads are a bit off-putting, and I suggest that they check the “Flu Prep (roman numeral)” thread, and the “News Reports (currrent date)” thread.
Maybe talking about the doom and gloom is a “talking therapy” (with thanks to Herr Freud).
We seem to be wandering into those dim edges of self censorship. Personally, I would rather someone lay out their terrors and realize that they are not alone in those nightmares than screw down the lid and hold it all in. Face it, we are all here because of our concerns, and if we can’t discuss those concerns in the company of wiki friends and acquaintances, then what is the point?
And you don’t even want to hear about my bad dreams!
I have a hard time calling someone’s honest interpretation or analysis based on current facts, ‘doom and gloom’. ( Do some of you call the News Thread ‘doom and gloom’ as well?)
There is a sense of urgency about all of this that you can’t help but feel. I, for one, welcome some critical analysis of recent developments.
We cannot shield newcomers to this site from the initial adjustment reaction they will begin after their pandemic learning has begun. We can help them through the process.
I would rather be aware of everyone’s opinions on this site and take from them what I need or can handle. If a thread is too ‘gloom and doom’ for your individual comfort level, then skip it. But you might miss something really important.
Science Teacher: I agree that if you avoid an unpleasant topic you may miss out on some important informtion. So what to do about hungry people? Each person needs to decide in advance what to do.
As I see it, the underlying problems with charitable giving are these: when to start, how much to give, who should get it, and when to stop. My family is not wealthy, but we are better off than most families in our community. Last year, the percentage of families in this town who live at or below the poverty level was reported to be over 20%. (That figure, which I believe was based upon an annual household income of $23,000 or less for a family of 4, was stated in a report by the school system.) Although we have been modest contributors to several charitable efforts, such as local food banks, we have recently suspended these activities in favor of prepping for a pandemic. I have mentioned before that I have set aside some provisions that can help a neighbor or two for a couple of weeks, but there are 30,000 people in my town. If at least 6,000 of them are already having trouble making ends meet, we are going to have some serious social problems when the supply chains are disrupted. Then there are the other 24,000 or so to consider who have may have a bit of disposable income, but who have not even begun to prep. They will be facing the same dilemmas as the poor, but maybe a week or two later.
Do I fear the chaos and despair that could erupt from a situation like this? Absolutely. Is it wrong to be afraid and plan for this possibility? Absolutely not.
Let me state as emphatically as possible that the motivation for my own preps was fear, and it continues to be fear. It started with a simple evaluation of supply chain breakdown and took off from there. I feared that my family would have to do without food, OTC medications, toiletries, and essential household supplies. My fear then extended to actually contracting the flu, so I began prepping for a lengthy sheleter in place exercise. Finally, I am beginning to experience the fear that we may very well be on the verge of an event that could change the course of human events in many unpleasant ways. Yes, it is somewhat unpredicatable in timing and magnitude, but it is not at all unimaginable.
Regardless of how you perceive the future of life on this planet, you really do need some degree of fear to motivate you or just to keep you from making bad choices. Flu Wikie has helped me to understand and fear some of the things that I previously did not understand. But it has also helped me to become more confident in my chances for survivial. That is what pandemic awareness is all about. It does not take much of an imagination to see how quicky things could turn ugly, but it takes the collective insights of all you posters on Flu Wikie to help us see the various sides of each potential crisis and work toward viable solutions. Keep up the good work.
A few more words about fear. In my estimation, it is simply a matter of acknowledging the risks that we face in this world and devising a strategy for managing them. For some of us, lack of information causes anxiety. At least, this holds true for me.
Overall, I would have to say that even though I do not like to be pessimistic, I very much want to understand both the probabilities and the possibilities associated with a severe pandemic. Without this information, my decision-making capabilities are diminished and my fear is increased.
Temp Man: I’m sorry to have neglected your comments. I really think many of us feel the same anxiety you do. We might be able to turn away adults, but how will we deal with children? This sort of speculation into situational ethics is a bit like a fire drill for our emotions.
Lets face it….Those adults we would turn away are the parents of the kids that will come along later.Personally I hope the adults can figure it out to take care of the kids themselves.
Fears of a Pandemic Prepper (in stages — some of the middle ones may occur in a different order depending on your personal situation)
I can’t think of a stage 11.
This is my personal belief now — I came here about 8 months ago ready to work at stages 1 through 3. I can personally handle about a 6 now but it is causing a lot of problems emotionally. Anything past a 6 — I think it probably should be considered doom and gloom and maybe labeled as such on a thread, to avoid scaring off people at or happy to be at stages 1 through 3. But that’s just me. Maybe because I’m only at about a 6, I just think anything more doom and gloomy than that just isn’t worth considering.
Ange D-Thank you for posting about this matter. There is no “party line” on fluwiki, only the free and uninhibited exchange of ideas. No one should ever censor themselves because certain segments of fluwiki might seem to disagree. As long as things don’t get personal I think all who are true fluwikians love the rough and tumble of clashing viewpoints. It is grist for the mill, and it could save your life, (and someone else’s life).
And by not biting your tongue when you disagreee, resentments don’t build inside. That is the way of all relationships, even internet ones.
Average Concerned Mom – at 08:23, Good summation! About worth putting in the Adjustment Reaction wiki page, but I’m sorry this is hard new information to take in for newbies. (“Don’t be too scared; go -get prepared!”)
If they look at the plan details and preps to implement them (if any) the local officials have in their area, and, look at the current H5N1 situation and continents and fallible human nature, and, no vaccines for people for months, Medical Maven might find some newbies agree we may be facing a catastrophe.
(Hm, come to think of it, I had a dream last night; bulldozers, big housing development going in behind my house; “That’s it, I “REALLY need to move” Ha-ha, believe me I’ve been wishing there was a safer place to move, and I could afford to do it, and that there is time to do it, and I wouldn’t procrastinate and not do it in time…Warning people to prepare better not get me allies, not in trouble, but, I’m not in an ideal location.)
Is this really a moral question, or a question of survival? I’ve thought about this many times, talked to hubby, and even asked daughter’s opinion. What it boiled down to, is A MATTER OF SURVIVAL. Hubby asked, “why am I obligated to shelter, and feed people in an disaster? why do people expect that they can depend on others? It will be everything I(our family) can do to survive. And not knowing how long this will last makes it really hard to be able to lend a helping hand to people. I’m sorry, but my family will come first, which won’t leave anything for anyone else.”, Case in point- we had a blizzard here in 93, my first. We were warmed that morning this was coming in. We went to the store, stocked up the best we could, went home and stayed. It hit about 7p.m. that evening, and as the night worn on, the road become so conjested! slowly, cars, trucks, started to become stuck in the snow. and guess who came to our home wanting us to put them up? Of course hubby turned them away, mainly because I was 7 months pregnant, and he wasn’t going to have me waiting on strangers, but he did get his 2 cents in to the people, “You knew this was coming, and now you want me to take care of you?” Those people left VERY upset. One even threatened to burn our house down. My sister-in-law, who lived just down the road from us, related her experiences of having these houseguests. They were rude, took over her home, told her she couldn’t smoke, used her phone to make long distance calls, the kids would not settle down, they complained about being cramped, ate what food they wanted, showered, and didn’t clean up their mess, and this was a minister and his family! Needless to say, her and her hubby agreed they would never put anybody up again. They were shock that people behaved like that in an emergency.
As a mother hen here, I will have to agree with hubby. It is going to take every resource he have to stay health, and survive, given this looks like a months situation. If there is something we can possible do to help someone, that will not take away from our survival, by all means we will do it. we are not cold hearted people. My little ole heart is a tender as butter, but life has toughtened me as well. I don’t apologize for wanting my children and hubby to come first. That is human nature; to survive.
Average Concerned Mom – at 08:23
A very well written summation of the adjustment reaction in progress and right on as far as I’m concerned. Like you, I’m holding at 6 and not planning on moving any farther forward. A pandemic scenario that entails intermittent utilities, food shortages and hopelessly overwhelmed health care facilities could be survivable by our family. Some “Mad Max” post-apocalyptic world in which my day-to-day existence relies on the whims of some local warlord and his cronies is just too dark of a place for me to go.
Thanks, ACM. I really appreciate your telling it like it is. The great thing is that there is lots of information on this wiki to cover whatever stage we are currently in.
Maybe I am naive, but I just don’t feel that guns and ammo will be a solution. If this pandemic turns out to be a really nasty one then there will not be hoards of people trying to get into our houses. If they are wandering around outside going door to door, most,IMO, will get sick sooner rather then later.
I prefer to look at the later steps you outlined above as measures of longterm planning for sustainability. Lately I have been buying seeds, not ammo.
We all need some fear to motivate us to take personal preparedness steps and hope to get us through this.
I don’t call it “doom and gloom”. I call it by it’s real name, “human nature”! I’ve been through enough emergency disasters, to see what humans can and will do, and it is not pretty! And the longer the situation goes on, the ugilier the people get. That is reality folks, not doom and gloom.
O.k., i see people here having a rant every now and then, and I sorta feel one bubbling up. I went to a long time friend here, and presented my idea to hold a discussion form on pandemics, avian bird flu, and preparing emergency stock. We have two places to hold this, so I though this would be a good idea. Once I finished my presentation, this person look at me, and said, “nobody will come.” I asked why they thought that. “I’m all for it. I think we need to know something, hell anything, than what we know now. People are not going to listen until they are told to listen. And even then they still may not listen.” this person went on to say that comments have been heard that there are people out there trying to start a panic, and get people upset, calling them trouble makers. In trying to understand why these people are upset, i said to my friend,” you’ve known me for a long time, you know the way I think. You know I wouldn’t be involved in this if I did not think it was very important.” My friend advised me to give it some more time, although they really didn’t think time would do a bit of good. “you and I. We are a dying breed of people.” my friend said to me. “well, I know where to find a whole bunch more!”, and I gave then this website.
I understand that frustration is building up for alot of us, because we have the ablility to “UNDERSTAND” the severeity of this problem. We have the ability to understand that we can greatly reduce this if we are informed and prepared. What surprised me the most is my friend almost made it sound like, if I didn’t want to be ran out of town, drop it. They had to. So, the next I idea is in the making, and this is on a senator level. We’ll see what happens.
cottontop - Yeppers, I hear what you mean about “troublemaker.” I have presented twice to my homeowners association. No response from anyone. Most folks are more worried about paying their mortgage, paying for electricity, paying for gasoline than they are about prepping for something that may or may not happen.
Like Average Concerned Mom, I have been through those stages at various times since coming onto the wikie. I have deliberately chosen not to prep for steps 4, 5, 7 −10. Why? Because I cannot (or will not?)get my mind around a total collapse of society as we know it. That’s a personal decision on my part because I don’t have small children.
Back in my earlier fluwikie days when I was totally panicked about electricity, communications, etc. etc. my DH asked me one question that totally stopped me in my tracks. “Do you REALLY want to survive in a world where all your relatives and all your friends are dead?”
So I personally have chosen to prep for 6 weeks and plan to SIP for about 2 weeks. Should TSHTF - I will come to work as long as I am needed (wearing a mask, of course). I like the “stone soup” idea of helping in my immediate neighborhood. After that - it’s in God’s hands and I, for one, am at peace with that.
Cottontop: Case in point- we had a blizzard here in 93, my first. We were warmed that morning this was coming in. We went to the store, stocked up the best we could, went home and stayed.
It hit about 7p.m. that evening, and as the night worn on, the road become so conjested! slowly, cars, trucks, started to become stuck in the snow. and guess who came to our home wanting us to put them up?
Of course hubby turned them away, mainly because I was 7 months pregnant, and he wasn’t going to have me waiting on strangers, but he did get his 2 cents in to the people, “You knew this was coming, and now you want me to take care of you?” Those people left VERY upset.
One even threatened to burn our house down. My sister-in-law, who lived just down the road from us, related her experiences of having these houseguests.
They were rude, took over her home, told her she couldn’t smoke, used her phone to make long distance calls, the kids would not settle down, they complained about being cramped, ate what food they wanted, showered, and didn’t clean up their mess, and this was a minister and his family! Needless to say, her and her hubby agreed they would never put anybody up again. They were shock that people behaved like that in an emergency.
Excellent post.
These are also my observations from being in several disasters (wildfire, major earthquake, flood) as well as sitting in on a debriefing from paramedics that went to New Orleans in the aftermath.
great southern minds think alike, don’t they?
I for one am doing what you are, expect I’m upping my preps for a little bit longer. I bought new portable cd players for hubby, daughter, and self. I’m thinking comfort at all costs. Perhaps that will help with the stress.
last post is for bluebonnet. sorry ‘bout.
Temp Man,
Instead of shopping for a mountain retreat, get a lake house. If people come begging for food (unlikely), give them a hook and some line, and point them to the lake full of fish.
Also, you will have a better water supply and lake full of fish.
gardner – at 10:15 - Okay I will conceed that greedy gus is probably unfair. It’s just his comments remind me of people who I have seen and heard with the same complaint. They live in the “Good neighborhood,” and give out loads of the “best candy,” then they complain when half the town shows up at their door on Halloween night. There is a solution to this that is quite simple. I prepare a special treat for the neighbor kids that I know and know of, even if they just moved in yesterday, often their favorite candy if I know what that is. Everyone else gets the standard snack size chocolate candies (in addition to a secondary non-chocolate candy that is popular) that are sold in abundance for Halloween, until I am out of candy or 9pm, at which time the jack-o-lanters are brought inside and the porch lights turned off. I’ve never had any complaints. Since I am giving out the coveted chocolate along with a mix of other favorites I more often get smiles and polite thank yous from my trick-or-treaters but I do not get inundated either. This is not being stingy this is called setting reasonable limits. Too often I see people I know who live in the “better neighborhoods” giving out full size chocolate bars, either because they feel generous or because they feel a need to keep up with the Joneses. Often it is the latter of the two who complain about all the kids from the wrong side of town going to their “better neighborhood” to trick-or-treat. That is why Temp man’s comments irked me. There are numerous solutions to being swamped by the hoards on Halloween and I suggest to him and others in his situation that they seek them out and set reasonable limits that will allow the children in their own neighborhoods to feel special in their own neighborhood on Halloween.
I get teething cookies to give to the toddlers in arms whose parents take them trick-or-treating. This way the child actually gets something that is a treat for them rather than the parent completely getting away with using their child as an excuse to get free candy for themselves. The look on the parents faces is enough to let you know they got the message that you know what they are up to.
Some of the treats my kids loved best were halloween printed balloons. There are numerous non-candy and non-food treats that are becoming not only affordable but increasingly popular. They also make Halloween more fun for kids who are diabetic.
Fun ideas sure to draw a crowd (If you want to do so): Fresh popped popcorn. Orange cotton candy. We did the cotton candy one year when my husband worked for a sugar refiner. We had reserved the company machine for a party at our son’s school and since it was on a weekend we had a great way to make Halloween really fun for everyone who came to our door. We enjoyed the fun too since orange cotton candy is so out of the ordinary, and so festive. The beauty of both of these ideas is they are cheap if you have access to a machine.
As for being worried about these people knocking on your door in a pandemic I agree with others here, this may be a good opportunity to educate the parents about pandemic preparedness. Maybe handing out small bottles of water to mom and dad with info about pandemic flu attached to the bottles would be a good idea. One could utilize some of the info on the Pan Flu Awareness Week thread for this.
Poppy,
I live on a wicked hill (which accounts for a glorious almost reachable in 1 par 4), which limits the number of trick or treaters at our house. And we happily buy bags and bags of candy, as it is fun to give out to all, and the leftovers are brought in to work.
It has been said that 50 percent of all email communications are misunderstood because of the lack of nuance, and I assume the same can go for postings on an anonymous web service.
My original observation wasn’t meant to be a class put down, but a realistic assessment of the demographics of my neighborhood. On one side of a busy street is the front nine, packed to the gills with with 3 story apartments and condos. The back nine are huge houses, all beyond the means of most folks.
Most folks just make it paycheck to paycheck. Often even more so if they are young families and live in an apartment. I know I lived paycheck to paycheck when my young ones first came. These folks will have no supplies even if they were told ahead of time to get them. There just isn’t any way. And the folks in the big houses? I believe that while they may have more food in their cupboards, its just not enough for any serious length of time. There’s just fewer families per sq ft.
And many of the comments on this thread prove my point. Just because I live in a big house in a nice neighborhood, by definition, I am a greedy gus, probably have lots of food, don’t care about the average joe, and if I get burned out or looted, well I deserved it anyway.
It is my opinion that I have a big target bulls-eye painted on my front door of my 4000 sq ft house (How can 2 adults watch the front and back of a large house 24/7?), and I am at a loss of what to do.
Post warning sign that flu is inside equals come in and see if we are still alive Post warning signs that you will be shot equals bring lots of firepower with you Post warning signs that no one is home equals come on in Post warning signs that we have no food equals they must be easy pickings or are lying Board up house equals firebomb the house, no one is home Shoot warning shots equals come with a crowd or wait till everyone is asleep
OK, get six or seven neighbor families together to protect the cul de sac. Neighbor on left is a retired 75 year old couple Neighbor on the right is a widowed 82 year old Neighbor beside here is a dentist who has already told me he is bugging out to his summer home. Neighbor beside him lives in Arizona during the winter and has already left for the year. Neighbor beside him I have spoken to once, have no clue what their name is. Neighbor across from us is Korean, and doesn’t speak English.
Well there goes that idea.
Contact the home owners association. Yeah, right. That will let all those folks whom I don’t know where exactly to come because they didn’t get prepped.
Bang head against the wall. Hope for a 80% CFR and 95% infection rate. Wait a minute. Hope for 2% CFR and 40% infection rate. Well, anything in between, and my family is so screwed.
Temp man at 22:02-The conclusions in your last two sentences are exactly what I have calculated. Hope for the best (that it doesn’t happen) or a little lady luck within those two scenarios. No sense anxing, just prepare in depth.
This picture comes to mind when I think of starving children coming to my home looking for handouts of food: The Vietnam War pictures of children running up to the troops with explosives strapped to them. What were the GI’s to do? If I give out food to the children, how do I know that their relatives aren’t in the background waiting to see if I have food and then storm my house. No, sorry, I won’t take that chance with my family’s life. This time it’s not survival of the fittest, it’s survival of the smartest. My objective is keeping my family alive, by whatever means I can. This is a question of whether the end justifies the means. I have worked very hard to get to the point I am at. I have cut corners, clipped coupons, not gone to see movies I wanted to go to, not bought new clothes, and not done a lot of other things I wanted to do so I could prep. I see people everyday who don’t believe or think the government will help them or think the flu shot will protect them. They have the latest fashions, new cars, concert and sports tickets, etc. etc. I will not sacrifice all my hard work for them. They are on their own. I feel my personal means justifies my personal end, meaning I prepped therefore I deserve my preps.
When my son heard of starving children in the world when he didn’t want to eat his broccoli, he offered to give that broccoli to them. I told him it doesn’t work that way. It won’t work that way in the panflu world either.
Reader, I’m in the same boat.
I’ll tell someone, that has at least 4 times my money, to prep; their response, “Well, if the pandemic comes, I’ll come live with you.”
Infuriating to say the least.
BTW, I no longer tell people I know, to prep. Only strangers that have no idea how to find me.
In the almost ten years I have lived where I do, I have not had ONE trick or treater. During this election year, not one politician has made it to my porch. Ive only had one salesman-and he was sent by a friend who had the misguided notion I might want to buy an encyclopidia. (And he got lost on the way) I have thought about this a lot and have concluded that when TSHTF we’re holing up and not coming out.
If I had money or preps to share, I would but I don’t. I had a few first aid classes and the first rule is-make sure you are safe before attempting to rescue others. In the event of a plane crash you are told to FIRST put on your OWN oxygen mask, secure your safty, THEN try to help others. Ive been through blizzards as well. And I know sometimes things happen (like babies wanting to be born!)you get caught out thats something different, but if all those people in Cottontops blizzard had looked after themselves in a responsable way no one would have needed shelter. And heres the thing, everyone knows there somesort of danger out there-Everyone has heard of Katrina, everyone jokes about earthquakes in California, and I beleive most people have at least heard of bird flu. At the very least everyone has experinced a power failure-but how many people keep flashlights handy? Snacks? Bottled water? non-electric radio?
Yes I feel for less fortunante people. Ive been there, I know. We’ve had a couple of medical disasters that about wiped us out. Ive lived years below the poverty line-and its no fun struggling, and if I can help others I will-but I also know you can’t sit around and wait for someone to help you out.
I will (anonymously) put out flu flyers til the end. I will write letters to congressmen, leaders, newspapers-whatever. I have passed out several copies of “The Great Influenza”with web info pasted inside, told folks to read them and pass them on. When the SHTF, we will SIP-hopefully we won’t be ill, but Ive stocked lots of meds/supplies-we will not go to a hospital. Then when its over, my husband, a mental health practicioner, and my two strong healthy teen-age children and myself will venture forth and help pick up the pieces.
Ive given this a good deal of thought, and for myself and for my family this is the most rational responsible plan I can come up with. Other people, in other situations, with different resourses will of course have different plans. I don’t want to add to the gloom and doom, but I do think a very bad event is looming on the horizon. I think the best any of us can do to look ahead as much as we can, draw up a responsable, rational plan and do the best we can and not waste time/energy feeling guilt. None of us are bringing this on. (UNless one of the anonymouses is actually a bio terrorist)
Poppy, You’ve given me a great idea for the babies and toddlers who come knocking this year. Snack sized boxes of Cheerios!
Personally, I love the mom’s and/or dad’s who come knocking with their wee-babes in tow. Just try to stop a new parent from parading their special bundle around the neighborhood. The first year of “firsts”…even though a baby cannot actually eat those Halloween treats.
We focus so much on language and how it works. Teaching our babies, from very early-on, all of the essential words to help them identify their wants and needs. Words such as “mama” and “dada” and then the safety words like “hot” and “no-no” On Halloween they see how a reward is given through the command of language. The mere expression of just a few words. Ring the bell, say “trick-or-treat” and then the magic happens. A shiny wrapper or a pretty printed bag is placed in their bucket.
If mom and/or dad go home with a few treats to share between them…fine by me. Perhaps it could be looked upon as “early” compensation for some of the back talk and/or mood swings they may endure once junior hits adolescence :)
Temp-man - I hope you find the answers you’re looking for. One thing is for certain. Even with all of the bad news regarding our youth these days. Statistically speaking, most of those who come to your door will have good morals and values. And while the possibility of social disorder is possible during a pandemic. The notion that catastrophe automatically equates to the worst in humankind…it just as often (and perhaps more often) brings out the very best. I’m not saying that’s how you are feeling. I completely got your statement about “nuance” And I know that you and others are peeling this away to a deeper level then I am willing to go.
I’m off to enjoy the fall colors :)
Temp Man.
We are in a similar boat, sans the golf course ;-)
The only thing I can say is…. Don’t put all your eggs in ONE basket.
Have some fallback plans, locations, and supplies scattered to the winds.
Qoute from TempMan:
Maybe I should dress up as the grim reaper and hand out a neighborhood flyer detailing the risk of a pandemic, the need to stock up and prepare, and the distasteful need to organize a community posse to protect our neighborhood.
TempMan,
Handing out pandemic fliers with a little treat is actually a great idea.
Kath-rn
Green Mom- at 10:54
the thing that got me the most about that blizzard, is that we had ample warning. These people has no business being out, what so ever. Everything was shut down. It seems to me that the worse the weather is, the more people want to go out. What was going through these people’s minds when they were driving in the blizzard? I’m inclined to say they do not respect their saftey or the saftey of their family. In a situation like that, nothing preceeds saftey.
And thank you Green Mom, for providing us with a level headed view of how you plan to deal with this. I favor your view, because that is the decision we have came to. and it will be hard to turn people away, especially if you’ve known them for years, or children are involved. And trust me, people will “use” the children, and milk that for all it’s worth. It’s stomach turning. If we should loose power, and time drags on, and all you have is backup radio, you’ll eventually quiet listening to it. It becomes to stressful. Where once our radios were a source of relaxation, it will be a source of stress. My advice is to listen to only a limited time once a day. Once we went to doing this after about day 9 of the 98 ice storm, we noticed a big difference in ourselves. One of the biggest challenges that I faced, was being cut off from family and friends. My, my, my. A woman without a phone is NOT good. And laundry. Our fridge /freezer leaked on to the floor for TWO days. I used every towel, and sheet I had. anything to soak up that water. Forget the mop. The water just kept coming. Hubby and I took turns “keeping watch” at night. He actually ran a guy off trying to steal gas out of his truck! My advice about the laundry; keep it simple. allot each member 2 changes of clothes, and two towels. Nothing more. When the power goes out, take the sheets off the beds, and put down sleeping bags. eliminate as much clothing/bedding, use as possible. To conserve our kersone heat at night, we put up our tent in the living room, and we all crawled in. Man where we warm. That was fun, especially for daughter. Don’t forget to leave the cupboard doors open under the sink, if during the winter. take all cleaning supplies out, if you have little ones. It will help keep the pipes from freezing. Boredom will eventually set in for everyone. You can only put so many puzzles together, play so many card/board games. You can listen to people’s whinning on the radio for so long. They played no music. They were the only station on the air, and they were in emergency mode. No music.
My point is that what I have just described to you is just a tiny bit over the course of 13 days and nights. Only 13. The stress. Man the stress. It truely is all hands on deck, and there is not any room to be taking care of others off the street. You can barely manage the stress that your in. Barely. Add one, two, or three months on to that stress. things will happen that you didn’t plan for, and that adds stress. If yor generator broke down, could you repair it to last the duration? There’s more stress. Your kids are at each others throats for three days straight. You’ve got your period, (don’t laught, just a reality), and you are stuggleing to deal with that. stress. Your family isn’t sleeping well. everybody’s crabby. stress. are you getting the picture? It isn’t possible to consider for one minute that you could take someone in and care for them.
Hi temp man. I’ve worked with a lot of nonprofits and they range from the great to the awful. I think you’re in a terrific position to start taking folks to coffee and saying “look, here’s a problem that I see coming down the pike. What should we be doing? — everybody loves giving advice — and you’ll start meeting and knowing more of your community. Who knows, maybe it’s the kid with a mohawk and a nose ring who will come by with soup when you’re sick because he knows you’re the good guy who got the community working on plans. (pause for your cynical snort) — I have a world of teens in my life right now and I am amazed how they rise to the occasion when I ask for their help.
There’s a pair of public health experts who have a blog called “Effects Measure” — it may be a bit liberal for some tastes, but I love their “posting” name. They call themselves “revere” — I’m inspired by that. You and I know that something big and nasty is in the wind. We may not be able to get everyone woken up, but, by gum, we can get our our horses and try. Saint Nicholas is based on a real man. He liked children and was their friend (I know, I know, these days we’d find out he was a creeepy closet pedeophile . . .) — but maybe his name and generousity live through the centuries because he was a geniune good dude. You’ve been successful in some of your work — why not see what you can do for the town on this front?
Temp Man - I guess you are right I misunderstood. I just have heard that class put down at this time of year too often. Most people even those in “well off” neighborhoods work very hard for what they have, few of us are independantly wealthy. Even the very rich, like Bill Gates, do actually work for a living. They just work differently and get more for it that us poorer working stiffs. I know people in some of the most exclusive neighborhoods in my hometown who are fighting hard to keep that very expensive roof over their heads. One, whose daughter is a friend of my own daughter’s couldn’t even afford new school clothes for their kids this year. That’s what the cost of living in California is doing to people. These folks have more house than they probably need (if I understand your earlier post you do as well) and live in the neighborhood that gets filled with the town’s trick-or-treaters every year. It’s the kind of neighborhood where full size bars are expected as the norm.
I understand your feelings about charities and church groups as well because I have seen what you have seen myself having done my share of public service for such groups. Most working within these groups are honest and I’m sure some who take from these groups may actually be in need themselves, just too ashamed to admit they need the help. It’s the ones who are dishonest who are the problem.
To be honest my own family recently moved from over expensive California to East Texas, closer to my family’s roots. We were ultra close to being homeless in California, especially when my husband lost his job. That’s a situation that brings one up short and makes you take a hard look at what really matters. Reading between the lines of your posts just a little…Maybe you are asking yourself how safe do I really feel here? Maybe you would feel safer in a smaller home in a decent but less exclusive neighborhood of homes that are closer to the median price for your area? Where we live now there are huge gaps between the apparently rich and poor. On our street there are very nice homes and homes that look as though they ought to be torn down right across the street from each other. I know we are better off than some of our neighbors and others appear to be much better off than us. Would I feel safer living on some isolated farm or hilltop? Yes, because I really do not even know my neighbors. I fell knowing your neighbors is a real key to safety. Knowing who they are and a little about them Can make all the difference in the world in times of trouble. So maybe safety is not just about where you live but about knowing your neighbors.
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