What the hell, let’s move across the pond next.
I’m in Ontario.
Hi, I’m in S. Ont. , interested in plants and extracts for flu topics. Have knowledge on processing forest biomass. Anyone have similiar interests?
Pilgram, Thanks for the support on conifer topic. My own fault for pickin’ up the bait. I wonder which word he doesn’t understand, literature or science? The guy finds entire books between the lines <grin>.
Are there other preppers in our area…manbe some that actually like bush stuff?
Here’s a clean email, I can block off after contact: prepare@safe-mail.net.
Bushcrops is an Austrialian term, like bushfood. Raises eyebrows here, thats my type of humour.
I just got in and have e-mailed you.
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Saw this thread from earlier, thought might as well bring it up. There’s at least 10 of us Ontarians or so here…
count me in
Over here in E Ont………..
in Northumberland County
I’ve been lurking and prepping for months and I’m in Eastern Ontario (CanadaSue’s stomping ground I think.) An article in our local newspaper mentioning her and this site brought me here and since then I have recommended this site and a few others to many family members and friends. I’ve also posted the links on other boards which I frequent.
I cannot tell you how grateful I am for all of the regular posters who have so generously given us all such valuable advice. I pop in several times a day and I suspect many others do as well but for one reason or another have not posted. (I am hopeful that, like me, they are still busy prepping and will post sooner or later!)
Bless you all for taking the effort to share so much with us!
Alright, Team Ontario! Let’s go!:)
Let’s pass the news and links onto everyone… education and awareness is key.
I just heard someone today say that the best prepping they could do would be to boost their immune system!!
Ontario Universities that have pandemic plans (so far that I have found):
University of Toronto (Joint Centre for Bioethics) University of Western Ontario Ontario College of Art and Design
sorry, that is:
most Ontario universities have been sponsoring conferences regarding the pandemic, or histories of pandemics, but so far I’ve found few that have a public posting of any university-wide planning committee.
Prepping tip: check out No Frills stores; they currently have a “dollar store” type section where you can find all sorts of great survival-type preps for a buck or two.
I almost wonder if it’s secretly meant to be a prepping section, since I found many key preps there, it was unreal.
Hi Ricewiki. Technically I shouldn’t be on here because I must admit that I have not done any prepping yet but good for you.
Tom,
I’ve started slowly, since I’m hesitant and I admit, taking a bit of a “wait-and-see” attitude. But even still, I’ve got 3 months of “health-and-beauty” supplies (as Hillbilly calls them!) - bathroom stuff, and general supplies like tape, scissors, rope, first-aid, etc.
It takes up 3 boxes and cost me around 600 dollars. I’m prepping just for one person, though!:) It took me probably two months to get that all ready. I’m glad I have it.
I’ve been thinking now that I might start really slowly with the food preps (also because I’ll be relocating a few times). Maybe a three-day supply at first. (Astonishly, that’s what local area is recommending! HA! That might work for a blizzard power-outage type emergency, but it’s not enough for a pandemic!)
Ricewiki. I believe that we might have a little prior warning giving me time to prep. Please don’t take my advice…this may be the dummest thing I’ve ever said.
Yes, I think there will definitely be some kind of intermediate stage between now and a full-scale pandemic that will give us more of a sense of it… but then again, it’s like that checklist you posted on another thread (I think it was you) — you see how much it’s escalated just in 2006 alone!
Anyways, it can’t hurt to start slowly prepping, anyway… less stuff to prep when you actually have to get down to it!
Ricewiki. Thanks. Clark from New Zealand has been giving me the same lecture. It really helps keep my mind focused that sooner rather than later, I am going to have to start.
To fellow Ontarians:
Here’s your chance to voice your opinion (Globe And Mail) about lack of funding for public flu prep in Ontario. Politician has to resort to PR games. As per reader commment:
“I’m a frontline health care worker, and that’s all the stuff that we are normally supplied with anyways.”
As Dem said many times, show me the money.
Sorry, the story was here:
and Ministry of Health press release here:
Thanks, ANON-YYZ.
Are there any newbie Ontario preppers here? C’mon… there must be some more people from Toronto here…:)
Ottawa even?
We already know that SARS was a fiasco, I’m weary of the government…. hospital overcrowding won’t make things better obviously but at least the hand sanitizer will keep things moving along for a few more weeks until hospital supplies run out alltogether…
I mentioned already on another thread - Northumberland County has just put out a fairly useless booklet - no mention of BF - just general preps for 3 or 4 days in case of ice storm etc - They must have spent quite a lot printing it and distribution to all households - but it doesnt contain anything you would want to keep it for to refer to in case of emergency - I have spoken to the ‘pandemic preparedness’ guy at our local health unit - he blathers on abt how well organized the health care system is because of SARS experience - not at all helpful!!
The only thing organized out of the SARS experience in Toronto is how to take credit and look good to the press and how to look after business interests. During SARS, it was the tourism industry. With the avian flu, it is to maintain public confidence in the chicken farmers industry. That’s why the first official act of Tony Clement, the Federal Minister of Health was to give a speech to praise biosecurity at the chicken farmers conference.
Step 2 of the pandemic plan is to not spend money on N95 and start a propaganda that N95 is useless anyway because some health care workers will end up touching the N95 mask anyway (quote Dr. Donald Low).
Step 3 of the pandemic plan is to compel essential workers to go to work even if there is no N95 - $100,000 fine or one year in prison per day of absence.
Step 4 is to blame the federal government for not stockpiling enough Tamiflu. Deflection and diversion at its best.
While there is no money for N95, there is plenty for PR consultants, printing brochures, hosting press conferences. Of course, legal consultants (aka lawyers) and HR consultants on how to force health care workers to work without protection, and remove government liability so health care workers won’t be able to sue (SARS infected nurses of Ontario are still suing, last time I heard).
I wish the press will do an expose. Perhaps that’s why the government’s PR budget is actually useful. The press’s friends have been bought.
any info anyone has on healthcare workers in Ontario re: this pandemic or SARS treatment, lemme know!
anonYYZ, do you have more ‘fo on those SARS-infected lawsuits?
ricewiki – at 00:08
Well, I am not an insider and I am not in health care. I read about the lawsuits in some news. I just googled “SARS toronto nurses lawsuit” and found this on the ONA website:
It seems to me our collective political leadership at federal and provincial levels are both so corrupt that it will take an example of the Virginia governor’s son’s death in the ABC movie: Fatal Contact - for Western society to wake up from the corrupt political culture.
Tom DVM, please start stocking up (know where you’re going to staore it yet?) and use the oldest stuff first (and be glad pandemic hasn’t started) and keep stocking up.
We want you to be around after. (Waving “hi/bonjour” from non-Ontario-land)
Old thread - Closed to increase Forum speed.
reopened by DemFromCT - I like Canadians. ;-)
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Thanks anonyomous. You are pretty good at picking old threads. Why don’t you pick a name and join us.
Been noticing in a couple of canadian prepper threads people looking to teh Emergency management Ontario Page for pandemic info. Don’t bother. Go here instead, to the Ministry of Helath Emergency Management Unit site: http://www.health.gov.on.ca/english/providers/program/emu/pan_flu/pan_flu_plan.html
You may also want to note: ON provincial government has posted a tender for protective supplies for a pandemic stockpile for healthcare workers. Better late than never I guess.
TOto – at 15:36
Can you please post a link about the tender for protective supplies?
When the Ontario Health Pandemic Plan was announced, it was also stated that the non-health part of the pandemic plan will come out of Emergency Management Ontario. This was announced before it’s chief Julian Fantino resigned and went on to become Chief of the Ontario Provincial Police. The non-health part of the Pandemic Plan covers such things as law enforcement, electricity and water supplies, public transit and the like. His EMO experience, and especially the role he played in the development of the non-health portion of the Pandemic Plan (yet to be published) may or may not be a factor in the decision to appoint Chief Fantino to head up the OPP. One can only speculate.
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TOto – at 15:36
I hope you are here. I would really like to know what the government of Ontario is tendering on. It was stated previously that only surgical masks will be available, not N95, except for paramedics.
Some one must know the answer to question above?
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YYZ & TOto:-
Hansard (http://tinyurl.com/vczmt)has this:-
Monday 15 May 2006 Lundi 15 mai 2006
EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT STATUTE LAW AMENDMENT ACT, 2006 LOI DE 2006 MODIFIANT DES LOIS EN CE QUI A TRAIT À LA GESTION DES SITUATIONS D’URGENCE
Consideration of Bill 56, An Act to amend the Emergency Management Act, the Employment Standards Act, 2000 and the Workplace Safety and Insurance Act, 1997 / Projet de loi 56, Loi modifiant la Loi sur la gestion des situations d’urgence, la Loi de 2000 sur les normes d’emploi et la Loi de 1997 sur la sécurité professionnelle et l’assurance contre les accidents du travail. ________________________________________________
I have googled BidsCanada and the Web and dont find any reference to any call for tender for masks in Ontario - so far!
the legislation would authorize the use of some far-ranging powers, which include:
— restricting travel or ordering evacuations;
— establishing facilities for the care, welfare, safety and shelter of people, including emergency shelters and hospitals;
— closing any place, public or private, including any business, office, school, hospital or other establishment or institution;
— putting into effect other measures deemed necessary to prevent, respond to or reduce the emergency.
The argument is always put forward by some that the powers are too broad and open to abuse. However, all of us can think of unique situations where the powers would be of great value in the event of a provincial emergency.
oops - my comment abt googling ws meant to FOLLOW the Hansard excerpt - sorry!
gharris – at 12:41
The emergency powers were watered down in May. Essential workers will no longer be forced by law to work or face imprisonment. The availability of proper PPE is therefore even more important to ensure there is a large voluntary force of essential workers feeling safe enough to go to work. That’s why I am trying to find out whether there has been a new assessment of the risks, or they are just buying more regular surgical masks. Unfortunately, I have not been able to find the answer after searching through Ontario government website.
I wish some one on this forum knew the answer, or at least where to find the answer.
When I checked the bid page for govt stuff - it appears that Towns and Counties order their own stuff individually ? not the province? I imagine each will order its own? Maybe that is why we cant find it? I did look very carefully and usually I can find something at least - cant think of any other reason!! Tomorrow I will read the Ontario PP again and see if I can see how the system is supposed to work on ‘supplies’ - will post after.
There are a number of subscription based tendering systems e.g. MERX to even download a bid document. I still think this is provincial jurisdiction. We need some one who subscribes to those tendering services.
YYZ - did you read this page?
Starting in mid-June, 2006, the MOHLTC distributed more than 15,000 Emergency Infection Control Kits to licensed community physicians, midwives, and Community Health Centres (CHCs), including Aboriginal Health Access Centres (AHACs).
This kit is intended to be used only in large-scale infectious disease emergencies such as an influenza pandemic. Do not open the kit upon receipt. It provides enough infection control supplies to be used by health care providers to protect themselves, their staff, and their patients from infection for the first seven to 10 days of an outbreak of a droplet-spread illness.
snip…
Update as of July 14 : We have been informed by the distributor that as of July 14 there are a number of kits still en route. 80% of deliveries should be completed by July 19, with the additional 20% following by the end of the month. We encourage you to reserve your enquiries regarding delivery status until this point; however, should you have concerns, all enquiries will be pursued. Thank you for your patience.
YYZ - I think Mrs Smitherman and the kidz are puttiing together the kits/boxes on the Smitherman dining table!! all they have in them are bottles of hand sanitizer, gloves, silly masks and a yellow plastic sign holder so that you can download and print instructions for patients from the MOH site!! My DIL works in a doc’s office and they laughed when they rec’d theirs!! “do not open til pandemic” on the lid!!
gharris – at 01:23
Thanks for the page. I also heard from my family doctor about some kit.
As far as I can remember, this was announced around the time of Karo outbreak by Ontario Health Minister, with a scathing attack on Federal Government not stockpiling enough Tamiflu. The kit contains SURGICAL masks, not N95. Federal Health Minister then went on TV and said we are ordering more Tamiflu so that no Canadians will be without them. The following week end, on a Saturday, Federal and Provincial officials made a deal, to ‘coordinate’ their communication.
What I hope is that they found a way to dispose of the surgical masks i.e. give them to community level, and then are now able to buy N95 for hospital staff without looking stupid. That’s why I need to find out what they are tendering on. If they still insist on surgical mask then I say the health care system will break down real fast with many absentees.
They explain in the covering letter that the kits are just for doctors’ offices - and that hospitals will have their own as part of normal supplies. The masks in the kits are not N95!!
gharris – at 01:33
They have to look busy, without doing any thing.
I guess I dont believe that ANYONE will want to go out once it has arrived, for any reason, the risk wd just be too great - it wont be like SARS where most of the city carries on regardless - it will be total shutdown within 48 hrs I am afraid!! I would not allow any family member to go out if there was even ONE case in Ontario!! No point in risking your life for a job! I think lots of other people will feel the same way and that is what will make the system collapse. I think Tom is right - 80% infection rate!! You cant get infected if you stay isolated in your home!
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Two small items of interest:-
A friend of mine was “shocked” to catch tail end of tv ad which instructs Ontario residents to stockpile food for 72 hours in case of ‘emergency’ (no she wasnt shocked at the 72 hours - she was shocked that TPTB are talking about ‘stockpiling’ and ‘emergency’ in the same breath - confirming to a small extent what I have been telling her - until this moment she was ‘sceptical’!!
Saturday’s Globe & Mail has a large ad describing proper ‘sneeze etiquette’ (into your elbow) - first time there has been any public advice on this issue as far as I have noticed.
Hello all: I would like to purchase a couple of crank radios for family members this Christmas. Does anyone have advice about moderately priced ones (under $100.00) that work well. I am in S-E Ontario and have been checking in at FW at least once a day almost since if first went on-line. I feel like I almost “know” posters here and am missing some noticeably absent posters.
gharris – at 12:54
They are leveraging the water boil advisory news in Vancouver. They should use the Quebec ice storm as an example and tell people to make a habit of accumulating a stock pile of 6–12 weeks. ‘One extra day a week’ until you reach your goal. Some will then start prepping for 2 weeks.
TPTB think they can preserve the status quo for as long as possible. Will sneezing into your elbow alone prevent a pandemic, or even slow down the spread from the index case? I don’t think so. When a pandemic starts, you don’t need big ads to tell people to be careful about sneezing. As usual, the money is spent on public relations and advertising. You need to close the school real early, then every one gets the message, and your public service announcements over radio will costs nothing - radio host will talk about it given the right information.
Now that the Christmas shopping season has started, there won’t be any room in the stores for preps. Prominently displayed at Costco are so many LCD/Plasma TV’s it’s a sight to behold. You won’t find water jugs at Walmart.
Some one should remind the government the effects of Quebec ice storm lasted over a month, not 3 days - and they were able to cram people with no heat into shelters. Google “Quebec ice storm” and you can see the carnage, in human and economic terms.
Looking at the economic losses from such an event, the loss of government revenue will be many times more if electricity is no available. It is far cheaper to stockpile for electricity, water, and gas utility workers and their families.
Zephyr @ 13:21 Radio Shack has a pretty good Grundig crank-up radio with a built in flashlight (also powered by cranking) for about $79 as I recall - we got one and it works vrey well!!
(Canadian Tire has crank-up LED flashlights for abt $10 also).
YYZ - I agree re ice storm experience as a good model - my elderly parents were in Kingston and no power for over a week - luckily they were able to move into a hotel in another part of town! I had friends in La Belle Province whose power was out for several weeks, saved only by gas fireplace and BBQ - and other frail elderly friends from upscale suburb in Mtl who had to go into a horribly uncomfortable public shelter!! The veneer of civilization is terribly thin - doesnt take much to ‘level’ us!
The propaganda campaign at the hospital has started! We are “Preparing to Care”. That’s so we have a warm fuzzy feeling about our essential roles and responsibilities during the pandemic. They have decided to tell essential workers that we need “at least a week” of food. God knows how long they expect to have essential workers with that!! They also said “expect the worst” and then mirror the US Gov’t site on a description of that (“expect travel restrictions etc”).
On the other hand, the Ontario Influenza Pandemic doc is quite different. At the end of assessing health care worker’s competancies, they then talk about having an up-to-date will and estate plan, and having Critical Illness insurance, and a family pandemic plan. HMMMMM. Someone is starting to take this MUCH more seriously.
Jody – at 20:59
Thanks for sharing. Are they actually calling this pandemic preparation for one week when they quoted “Preparing to Care” at hospitals?
An acquaintance whose spouse is an RN told me that they were quite concerned about Chemical and Biological terrorism and getting training . I thought that might be pandemic preparation in disguise. I haven’t read the Ontario Health Plan for Influenza Pandemic in it’s entirety (it’s too long for me), so I missed the part about estate plan, critical illness insurance, and even a ‘family pandemic plan’ - please describe this last one, really interesting.
Hi, Anon-YYZ:
Yes. We rec’d a 4 page Pandemic Planning brochure, and it says “food for at least a week” in it. This is an improvement over the last Pandemic Planning Evening, when the general public was told 3 days. (I now feel soooo cared for and essential.)
The Ont. gov’t pdf document I refer to lists a family pandemic plan as a consideration for getting ready, but does not go into detail. I expect that I will have more detail when the education that is promised, rolls out. (no date on that).
The Ontario Plan links to the Plan for Elgin County - as being a good model - the Elgin plan says prep for one week. I wrote to the fellow who is in charge of PanPlan in Elgin asking him to explain how come they say in their plan that although nobody has any immunity to H5N1, however they expect only 35/40% infection rate!! Gee whiz - what happens to the rest, just lucky I guess! (Their cfr projections are way low also) They only say to have food for about a week - and make it sound like if you are sick you wont feel like shopping - then they say each wave will be 6/8 weeks and 3 waves. Major disconnect there!! However, that is also what the Ontario Plan says, so Elgin is just copying the rhetoric. It is all QUITE RIDICULOUS!!! Do they think we are utterly stupid?? Of course the guy from Elgin has NOT responded to me!! I gave him the link to Fluwiki, so I hope he sees this!!
gharris – at 23:20
Can you please compare (and/or post) the Elgin plan with the Perth county plan below:
The Perth County plan was highlighted in the October newsletter “The Pandemic Planner”
Is Elgin county the same as Elgin St. Thomas as shown below:
Yes - it is the same - sorry - I meant Elgin/St Thomas - it was a few days ago and I was speaking from memory - the Northumbelrand Plan is just about the same - I think they are all just carbon copies of the Ontario plan - dont know why they bother!! The Ontario Plan is a copy of the Canada Plan, and the Canada Plan is a copy of the US plan - your tax dollars hard at work - copying!
Correction - the Canada Plan is a copy of an OLD version of the US plan!! They havent checked for updates!
gharris – at 00:02
We have more problems. We just had a municipal election (November 13th). It will be January before the new council is really able to do any work. Then next year, we expect a Federal election in the spring. I am not sure when the Ontario election is, but I can already see electioneering policies. Lame duck governments at all levels. Every politician only wants to look good. No one wants to talk about any bad news. I don’t know what to say.
Same situation over here - new bodies on Council - all saying ‘not my job’ and pointing to local Health Unit - Health Unit is focusing on vaccine and antivirals - (we know the truth in that department so let’s not even go there!!)
RE what to say? apparently most people, when they realize they are about to have a head-on collision on the highway, say something like “oh ****” or “Holy ****” and that is about all you have time for!!
Well, Gharris:
I would be very surprised if anyone on the municipal level does much of anything. They might arrange corpse pick-up if the neighbors start to smell too bad. I go shopping and wonder if it will be one of every 6 people I see, or one of every 5 or 4 that dies.
I am glad that I live in the country. I have worked out a neighborhood watch strategy on the road we live-one road, bare fields on both sides…..then ravines….we’ll see anyone coming. I just will have to convince the men along the road that watches are a good thing.
I am in e-mail contact with the local Doctor of Public Health. Actually, from the sounds of his reponses, he gets it. I believe the problem is, if the infection rate is higher than 40%, or CFR is higher than 2%, they just can’t respond to a problem of that magnitude. They are praying it is NOT that scenario. I asked him why the plans were based on a 2% CFR. He said “Well, we had to start somewhere”. Of course, several pieces of bad news have happened since my last communique.
Jody – at 19:47
Of course, several pieces of bad news have happened since my last communique.
Would you please clarify what kind of bad news. Thanks.
Anon-YYZ
Not intending to cause alarm. The news to which I refer is…. the DoD in the US putting out a pamphlet stating that Avian Flu is already in the US, the discussion re the acquisition of Flu B amino acids and the potential effect on function of the virus here on the Wiki, and of course the WHO publishing in their last “think-tank” report that the virus does not have to lose pathogencity in the case of enhanced virulence. (We all thought so but it remains alarming to see it in print confirmed by the big names of virology.) And then there is the US telling citizens overseas to prepare to shelter in place for up to 12 weeks. I think of these things as “bad news”, and I can only imagine it would make a Doctor of Public Health in say Elgin county run for the Alka Seltzer.
Good for you Jody!! It is excellent that you have managed to engage your local MOH!! Mine wont respond to emails or phone calls!! I can understand they have to ‘start somewhere’ - what is unconscionable is that they are STILL not telling people to make personal preps for extended SIP - or that SIP might save lives!!! Intelligent friend of mine today said she thought they wd be okay on their farm as they have good water supply, food and an outhouse - when I said well maybe we dont want to be walking to the outhouse through bird/mouse/coon/bat droppings I could see that the ‘penny finally dropped’ and she said WOW!! You mean really stay IN THE HOUSE!!! I answered We will have to wait and see if that is really necessary, but it might be prudent - I know she ‘gets it’ now and will be a strong help in getting the message out around here. (we are rural too!)p.s. Her daughter is going to SE Asia on some(?)CUSO initiative for a couple of weeks - If it were my daughter I dont think I would allow it just at the moment!
Regina Leader Post http://tinyurl.com/y2g4vz
Official worried Crowns aren’t ready
Pamela Cowan, Leader-Post Published: Saturday, November 18, 2006
Despite intense planning by civic, provincial and federal authorities to deal with an influenza pandemic, a health official believes many organizations don’t have contingency plans in place — including the Crown corporations.
At a public influenza pandemic forum, Jim Slater, co-chair of the Regina Qu’Appelle Health Region’s pandemic steering committee, said the Crowns need to step up their business continuity plans.
“We can’t deliver any health care if we don’t have utilities,” Slater said.
Health officials will take the lead when an influenza pandemic strikes, but all sectors of society will be affected since 35 to 50 per cent of workers are expected to be absent during a pandemic that could last up to 12 weeks.
From the actual CMAJ paper:- http://tinyurl.com/y9o75q
Methods: We applied a collaborative process using best evidence, expert panels, stakeholder consultations and ethical principles to develop a triage protocol for prioritizing access to critical care resources, including mechanical ventilation, during a pandemic.
Results: The triage protocol uses the Sequential Organ Failure Assessment score and has 4 main components: inclusion criteria, exclusion criteria, minimum qualifications for survival and a prioritization tool.
Interpretation: This protocol is intended to provide guidance for making triage decisions during the initial days to weeks of an influenza pandemic if the critical care system becomes overwhelmed. Although we designed this protocol for use during an influenza pandemic, the triage protocol would apply to patients both with and without influenza, since all patients must share a single pool of critical care resources.
The recent outbreaks of avian influenza (H5N1)1–4 have placed a renewed emphasis on preparing for an influenza pandemic in humans.5,6 Developing plans to deal with the allocation of critical care resources, including mechanical ventilators, which will likely become scarce during a pandemic,6–8 presents a significant challenge. Health care systems in the developed world have rarely encountered the type of resource scarcities envisaged during an influenza pandemic. Models of the potential impact of a pandemic on the Ontario population predict that hospital admissions for influenza will peak at 1823 per day over a 6-week period. 9 This translates to 72% of the total hospital capacity being used by influenza patients. Similarly, the demand for intensive care unit (ICU) resources, solely for patients with influenza, would peak at 171% of current ICU bed capacity and 118% of the ventilator capacity. These figures do not take into account the current usage rate of critical care for patients without influenza, which is nearly at 100%. Nor does this model factor in the availability of human resources. Surge response strategies10 (e.g., scaling back elective procedures, opening additional critical care areas and implementing the use of “mass critical care”11,12) will partially mitigate the sudden demand for medical care during an influenza pandemic; however, these strategies will be inadequate to fully address the demands on the health care system.
Gharris:
There is engagement and then there is influence. He might be answering me out of curiosity, but I do not believe I have any influence with my local Doctor of Public Health. I try to not misuse the “send” button, and keep my inquiries very focused.
Additionally, I agree with you, Gharris, it is inconceivable that the government is not stepping forward with information regarding SIP. It will go down in history as public homicide.
I have come to understand that the local offices are controlled by a heirarchy and they dare not overstep their bounds. But Dr. Sheela Basrur had been pretty straight forward in the Toronto Globe & Mail.
So have Allison McGeer and Donald Low - but it is the ‘Schabas-ites’ who have the ball at present!!!
Long time lurker, first time commenter. I am in Ontario and have been preping for the last year. I was shocked to see a commercial last night from the Canadian Government about a new web site…beprepared.ca or something like that. They were encouraging the Canadian public to gather supplies for 72 hours for themselves and families. On the web site is a list to help people out if they don’t have a clue. I am happy to see there is a start to opening the general public’s eyes in Canada.
First Confirmed Case of Influenza A In Northumberland County
Northumberland County - HKPR Health Unit Press Release - http://tinyurl.com/yetv4p
The flu season is officially here.
The Haliburton, Kawartha, Pine Ridge District Health Unit has been notified of the first laboratory confirmed case of Influenza A in its area. The confirmation of the single isolated case came after an ill individual was tested at the emergency room of a Northumberland County hospital. The individual has now recovered. (… more)
gharris – at 10:52
Notable:single isolated case tested at the emergency room.
Can you find out whether containment protocols were activated? For example, was contact tracing conducted? Were contacts given preventative dose of Tamiflu? Was the patient put into isolation upon arrival?
Did they send out news releases after the first confirmed case of seasonal influenza last year?
gharris – at 10:52
Would you please also be able to find out from schools whether they are sending notices for kids to bring home?
No special containment - the hospital has a hand sanitizing station in the doorway of the ER/Fastrak Clinic - no masks are handed out at present, altho that may come as a next step as flu season advances - patient was examined and sent home to recover - normal prescription is Tamiflu or Relenza - the test was done as a matter of procedure because pt went to hospital emerg - normally not done as a general routine in doctors’ offices although testing is now being encouraged in doctors offices by local Health Unit. No follow up of contacts etc as this is just ‘regular seasonal flu.
I will check out the school info later tonight - post report tonight or tomorrow - we have houseguests this weekend, so a bit overloaded!!
Country Girl @10:43
I saw that same commerical. I don’t understand why they say 72 hrs. What emergency situation, other than a minor power outage, could last only 72hrs?
Note to self- I need to start watching this area, as I am just across the border from these good people.
I agree cottontop. Its a start but a really tiny one. If TSHTF it just gives us preparers 72 hours to batten down the hatches and secure the homesteads before the chaos begins. Could you please tell me what SIP stands for.
Country Girl-
Sit In Place (SIP)
Most of us, if not all of us, are planning on SIP for the pandemic for as long as we can. That’s why prepping to the hilt is so important, and trying to work bugs out on the homestead now, like heat, water, ect.
Country Girl- Or we could call it SAT (Sit At Home).
Geeze- SAH- Sit At Home That’s what my family is planning.
Shelter-in-Place. (That’s what I hear it called here in the US) Helps if you have food and meds and things to not have to go out for anything, though!
Hey, can we convince the public it is a prep code:
If the govt says hours- think days, if the govt says prep for days- go prep for weeks,
if the govt says weeks- better assume months,
and if they say pandemic will be over in two or three months… two or three years sounds about right…
My guess was always SIP Survive In Pandemic. I prep weaknesses as of today are water storage and security on and around farm. I have read stuff by a man named Saxon? about “hording carivans” of people if a pandemic goes on long enough, that could swarm areas or homes and clean them out, maybe kill the occupants and then move on to next target.
Country Girl-
Yes, Survive in Pandemic, you can call it that too. It has all the same meaning. We’ve been discussing that here, if people are moved out to rual areas, or if people just take flight to rual areas, and it could get ugly, yes, I think. Desperate people do desperate things, especially when hungry, sick children are involved.
I have so many questions I don’t know where to start. I love reading over these threads when I have slow time at work. So….here’s one. I have about 30 chickens on the farm. They have a separate house and outdoor pen to separate them from other animals. Could they get this chicken virus I’ve been reading about. How does it spread from chicken to chicken. If chickens on the next farm over get it will mine?
Country Girl – at 10:43
The website is SafeCanada.ca which I found at the influenza.gc.ca , the Canadian government official influenza and pandemic website.
I heard about the commercial and my non-prepper friend who saw it thought it was very unusual the way it was presented.
I think they are trying to build awareness of preparation, without mentioning pandemic.
ANON-YYZ-
And perhaps there is an idea in that. Media can run infomercials without metioning “pandemic”. Start getting the message out about preparing, but must change the 72 hr. prep. Two weeks would be a good start. Then people will start asking why all these prepare commericals, and will seek out the answer. What do you think?
Think it is too slow: Nature has given us a year already; why gamble that we have any more free time?
Use the “P” word, and, say, in case of an “H5N1” or other pandemic, not “flu” since people think they know what “a flu” means, but may wonder what H5N1 is. Wikipedia has quite an H5N1 entry
;-) Want to borrow the nice MN summit quote from US HHS Sec.Leavitt?
“Any state, any community, or for that matter any citizen that failed to prepare — assuming that the federal government could take care of them during a pandemic — would be tragically wrong.”
Country Girl – at 13:19 FAO Special Report …”The ability of catching the H5N1 virus is not restricted to cats. Reports show infection in tigers, leopards and civets. Also dogs and pigs may become infected with the virus.
Given the broad host spectrum of the H5N1virus, the possibility that also other wild or domesticated mammals including seals, mustelidae or furbearing animals, become infected by contacting infected animals is present. All carnivores could become infected through eating infected poultry or infected wild birds.
Recommendations: Areas where H5N1 HPAI has been diagnosed or is suspected in poultry or wild birds:
Report to the local veterinary authority any evidence of significant bird mortality both wild and domestic
Be especially vigilant for any dead or sick cats and report such findings to the local vet
Make sure contact between cats and wild birds or poultry (or their faeces) is avoided and/or keep cats inside
If cats bring a sick or dead bird inside the house, put on plastic gloves and dispense of the bird in plastic bags for collection by local veterinary animal handlers
Keep stray cats outside the house and avoid contact with them
If cats show breathing problems or nasal discharge, a veterinarian should be consulted Do not touch or handle any sick-looking or dead cat (or other animal) and report to the authorities
Wash hands with water and soap regularly and especially after handling animals and cleaning their litter boxes or coming in contact with faeces or saliva
Dogs can only be taken outside the premises if kept on restraint
Do not feed any water birds
Disinfect (e.g. with bleach 2–3 %) cages or other hardware with which sick animals have been transported or been in contact with.
Wash animal blankets with soap or any other commercial detergent”…
Country Girl, read through this page, too: http://www.aphis.usda.gov/vs/birdbiosecurity/tips.html
Thanks crfullmoon for the web sites. I printed them all off to read later today. What I can’t seem to find is (skimming through stuff) is if my chickens are totally isolated from all other animals can they get sick. If the chicken farm up the road has an outbreak is there a radious of danger. Can the virus live in the air and transfer from farm to farm for a small distance. (I live really close to a big operation chicken farm). My chickens are just for hobby, eggs and the odd dinner. Is the virus spread from bird to bird by mosquitos?
Now I look at the bird security web page. Sorry. Thanks you.
Other wild birds and wild mammals, or domestic animals, that travel between farms, and I suppose people, could move virus, in my opinion. (Though I am still more worried about the virus going human-human pandemic.)
Your local authorities may have a distance or radius if a farm is found infected. That is what has happened elsewhere.
Maybe you can find out what your officials plan to do if that big farm has a problem… are you considered in their “zone”?
Good call crfullmoon. I am also concerned about virus human to human. But I can avoid humans if a pandemic breaks out. I still have to feed, water and collect eggs from chickens. I worry if they are sick and give it to me before I know they are sick and then bring it in the (virus safe) house to DH and fur babies.
cottontop – at 15:01
I think it’s part of the plan to slowly bring the bad news to the public. The communication is managed and coordinated very carefully. The problem is most people will ignore warning to prepare a 72 hour stock pile (enough in my pantry).
ANON-YYZ
Yes, they more than likely will. Do you remember at the first half of the year, we were bombarded with bird flu news, than it dried up? As long as it was on the news, my family and friends talked about it. Now that it isn’t news anymore, they think it’s dried up and went away. So when I talk about a possible pandemic due to H5N1, they don’t believe it, because it’s not news. Should the media, like the Candian station you and I saw, started broadcast the simple messages, and built them into full scale mesages, as times went by, it would be with people on a daily basis, and at some point, it would have to grab their attention and they will have to start asking questions. I know it sounds times consuming, as crfullmoon indicated, but, it’s a start. And that’s our main complaint here, is when are they going to start? What do you think?
cottontop – at 17:27
Unfortunately, I expect Canada to be a follower, not a leader in disseminating information to the public. This may be due to widely anticipated federal election next spring, and an Ontario provincial election in about a year. The incumbent governments have no incentive to announce early warning. The latest Ontario Pandemic plan is based on a mild to moderate scenario similar to 1957 or 1968. With the WHO finally acknowledging that the next pandemic may not see a reduction in CFR, the Canadian plans may change.
I expect the U.S. to announce warnings earlier than Canada. You already have the election.
So we are looking across the pond for help.
Country Girl at 13:19
Actually, the answer is “maybe”, if the big chicken farm is equipped with big exhaust fans. The big exhaust fans vent unfiltered air into the atmoshere, and if the wind is blowing just so, your chickens could be involved. A vet in BC during the last H7N7 chicken virus found that farms within 3 km of each other could get infected. What goes with one virus should at least be suspected in another.
Sorry, don’t have a link. Try Google.
Country Girl - I think the safest thing is to be prepared to cull your chickens humanely and immediately if there is an alert in your area - in the meantime you must keep them in strict bio-hazard conditions - see the Ontario Poultry Producers website - these biohazard protocols are already in place for large farms in Ontario - You must be sure that no wild birds can fly into your coop/barn and that your chickens do not walk around anywhere there could be wild bird poop!! (which is just about everywhere!!) You must also make sure no rodents can get into your coop/barn after THEY have been walking thru wild bird poop - i.e. we have canada geese and ducks on our fields and wetlands - little field mice feed in the same area and then move on to the feed storage bins - potentially they could infect everything around!! You must practice strict biohazard protocols yourself, changing shoes/clothing whenever you enter the barn - wash hands carefully after - Any birds you kill yourself must be VERY carefully handled - burn all entrails and feathers - wash with disinfectant/javex after handling - eggs also could be contaminated with faeces - wash carefully with mild bleach solution - it would be safer (liability wise) to keep eggs for your own consumption rather than selling them from roadside or back door - all chicken meat must be cooked to 85 degrees celsius to kill the virus - eggs should NOT be eaten soft boiled!! Ontario Ministry of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs says this:- ‘’‘Poultry Biosecurity If H5N1 were introduced to Ontario through wild birds, the greatest risk would be to backyard flocks and to birds commingling with, or exposed to, wild or migratory species. Nevertheless, there are other routes by which this virus can be introduced, including people. All poultry premises should have enhanced levels of biosecurity to prevent the introduction and spread of Avian Influenza.
The risk of H5N1 notwithstanding, other influenza strains and other diseases are a constant threat to Ontario poultry. Anyone raising birds, including commercial poultry producers and owners of backyard flocks, show birds and aviaries, should be familiar with the appropriate biosecurity procedures and follow them on a permanent basis. Resources and recommendations for enhanced biosecurity are available on the OMAFRA web site listed below. With respect to controlling the introduction and spread of influenza viruses, the following recommendations are critical:
Prevent contact between domestic/commercial and wild birds, and prevent contamination of equipment, feed and water by wild birds and their droppings.
Prevent contact between all birds, domestic or wild, and swine. Swine can also be infected with avian and human influenza strains, increasing the risk to poultry and public health.
Monitor the flock for signs of disease, increased illness or mortalities, and submit appropriate samples to the Animal Health Laboratory at the University of Guelph. An early and accurate diagnosis is important. If AI is suspected, contact the CFIA immediately.’‘’ Further info for small flock owners is found here:- http://tinyurl.com/trlj8
Thanks Jody and Gharris for that amazing information. I will have to rethink my chicken set up. The mice (1 or 2 now and agian) I never considered. And the large chicken farm is very close and does have large exhaust fans. Thanks guys for being nice to a “newbie”.
Oh my God. I just went to order 1 case butter, 1 case cheese on The internet Grocier and the shipping would have been $213.82 making the order $341.60 total. Can any one help e with a not-so-expensive route? I dying to have both of these items.
I’m in Manitoba and I ordered the canned cheese and butter from MREDepot, using the fluwiki discount of 21%. This is a repeat of my post back in October:
quote
30 October 2006 Irene – at 16:44
I’m in central Canada. I just wanted to report that my order arrived today, just 7 days after I ordered.
My order consisted of 2 cases of cheese, 6 cans of butter and a package of oxygen absorbers for a total cost after discount of US$177.59 plus UPS shipping of US$61.49.
On delivery today, as I sort of expected, I had to pay the UPS guy a UPS customs brokerage fee which came to Cdn$ 42.95. He was able to accept cash, check or credit card.
I inspected all the cans and all were in excellent condition with no dents. :)
unquote
Could you please tell me the Discount Code, I’m still a newbie here. Thanks you for the advise.
November 29 2006
“Doctors, nurses, ethics experts and scientists are preparing plans to make fair decisions about who gets scarce treatment if bird ‘flu spreads to humans, creating a pandemic and overwhelming the critical care services, a scientific meeting heard today, Wednesday 29 November 2006, as part of the Federation of Infection Societies conference in Cardiff.
If a serious outbreak of influenza occurs anywhere in the world, vital medical facilities, such as artificial ventilators and stocks of antiviral treatments, are likely to be in short supply very quickly. Doctors, nurses and their administrative colleagues in Canada have already planned medical protocols which will help make sure that the most urgent patients get the best treatment available.
“Our models of a human ‘flu pandemic in Ontario suggest that we can expect up to 1,823 new cases every day for a six week period at its height” says Dr Michael Christian from the McMaster University, Canada. “This means that 72% of the total hospital capacity would be used by influenza patients. Similarly the demand for intensive care unit resources would peak at 171% of the current ICU bed capacity, and 118% of the ventilator capacity solely for patients with ‘flu, completely overwhelming the critical care facilities.
The medical predictions during a pandemic do not take into account the current demand for critical care from patients after car smashes, following heart attacks and with other problems needing urgent and specialised treatment, which is already at nearly full capacity for the intensive care units. “ - excerpt
Country Girl, the discount code is a single word: fluwikie
There’s a box to input the code at some point in the on-line ordering process.I forget at just what step.
You can also see the shipping cost to your location in Canada onscreen before you get to the final step.
Thank you Irene, I will try that today and see how much it comes to. If you don’t mind me asking, approximatly what are are you in in ON.
No go on the code. It says expired or invalid. Anything else I can do? I really want that butter/cheese. :-)
Country Girl - this was re-issued by OMAFRA this week for small flock owners - PLUS - a nice sign to download re ‘biosecurity in place’ is available here:- http://tinyurl.com/u6zgz
Title: Biosecurity Recommendations for Small Flock Poultry Owners
Division:
Agriculture and Rural
History: Original Factsheet Written by: Babak Sanei - Lead Veterinarian, Disease Prevention Poultry/OMAFRA; Paul Innes, Lead Veterinarian, Provincial Biosecurity/OMAFRA
Table of Contents Restrict Visitors and Observe Proper Hygiene Prevent Contact with Wild Birds Don’t Bring Disease Home Recognize and Report any Illness
People who raise poultry or gamebirds for personal or limited commercial purposes, so-called “backyard flocks,” should be aware of the risks to their birds, and to commercial poultry, from diseases such as Avian Influenza virus. Managing these risks by preventing the introduction and spread of diseases and other hazards is referred to as “biosecurity.” The following recommendations are simple, inexpensive ways of minimizing the risk, but can be very effective in preventing a serious disease outbreak.
Restrict Visitors and Observe Proper Hygiene Contaminated equipment and people can introduce many disease-causing agents, such as bacteria and viruses, to your flock. These microscopic organisms can be carried on boots, clothing and vehicles, even if they appear clean.
Restrict contact with your birds to those caring for them. If visitors are allowed, provide them with clean coveralls and boots.
Do not allow people who own their own birds, or who have recently been in contact with other birds (e.g. visiting another flock, attending a bird show), near your birds. Also, people caring for your birds (staff or volunteers) should not have birds of their own or attend events where birds are present. This increases the risk of introducing diseases to your flock.
Have separate clothing and footwear for use when dealing with your birds. These can be kept at the entrance to the structure or enclosure.
Wash and disinfect boots and any equipment that comes in contact with the birds or their droppings, such as shovels, scoops and brooms. Clean cages, food and water surfaces on a daily basis.
Wash your hands thoroughly before and after dealing with your birds.
Prevent Contact with Wild Birds Wild birds carry many diseases, including Avian Influenza. Minimizing contact with wild species, and their droppings, will help protect your birds from these diseases.
Keep your birds in a screened in area or preferably in an enclosed structure where they do not have contact with wild birds. Screen all doors, windows and vents, and make sure they are in good repair.
Do not use water that may be contaminated with wild bird droppings, such as pond water, for your birds. Test your water at least once a year. If well water is used, it is recommended to use an appropriate water disinfectant such as chlorine.
Keep feed in a tightly sealed container, protected from birds and rodents.
| Top of Page |
Don’t Bring Disease Home Mixing birds of different species and from different sources increases the risk of introducing disease to your flock. It is preferable to keep only birds of similar age and species together (all in/all out).
If multiple ages and/or species are kept, minimize contact between groups by keeping them in separate locations.
If new birds are brought back to your farm, make sure that you get their complete background information, including a history of any diseases and vaccinations. Some vaccines, including some of those used to control Infectious Laryngotracheitis (ILT), can cause disease in unvaccinated birds. Consult your veterinarian regarding proper vaccination procedures.
If you take birds to a fair or market, or have new additions to the flock, keep them separate from the rest of the flock (quarantined) for at least 2–4 weeks after returning home, and monitor them for signs of illness. Clean and disinfect cages and equipment used for these birds. Use separate clothing, footwear and equipment for isolated birds, and handle them last. If the same equipment and clothing are used, they should be cleaned and disinfected before and after handling the birds.
Do not share equipment and supplies with other bird owners. Clean and disinfect before and after using any borrowed or shared items.
Recognize and Report any Illness Early detection is critical to successfully dealing with a disease outbreak.
If your birds show signs of disease, such as depression, abnormal egg production or feed consumption, sneezing, gasping, a discharge from the nose or eyes, diarrhea, or sudden death, call your local veterinarian immediately.
Dispose of dead birds quickly using an approved method, such as burial or composting. Consult your veterinarian first, as he or she may wish to collect samples for laboratory diagnosis.
Raising poultry species, either for food or as a hobby, is a part of Ontario’s agricultural heritage. However, to minimize the risks this poses to food safety and to the commercial poultry industry, bird owners should recognize and follow good biosecurity practices.
Country Girl, I’m in Manitoab. Late last night I started the order process on-line for MRE’s just as far as the step where I could see the shipping charge. The code didn’t show as expired and after I inputted the code, the next screen showed the after-discount price for the items.
Are you sure you were at the right site?
Thanks Gharris. That is very helpful. The sign is the best part. Printed in duplicat and ready to be put up when I get home tonight.
Country Girl - no problem - I’ll take a dozen brown eggs please!!! :-))
You got it! I keep all the neighbors supplied and earn a little $ to cover the feed cost. I make a sweet jar of pickled eggs too. Can I ask approximatly what area you are in? I’m inbetween London and Woodstock.
CG - You are too sweet!! Thank you - but I am way too far away - Northumberland County - (near Rice Lake) I have never made pickled eggs - would you share your recipe?
Okay - Here is a Toronto bit of info for y’all - happened to notice it last night when I was ‘trawling’ for Ontario info - This is from the Mt Sinai Hospital website - happened to click on the ‘Staff’ page - found this interesting bulletin!
MSH > MSH Staff Information
Bulletin Occupational Health
All staff (employees, physicians, residents, fellows, volunteers and students) will call the Occupational Health Surveillance Reporting Line, 416–586–4800 ext. 7425 (SICK), to report occurrences of:
fever greater than 38 degrees with respiratory symptoms or fever greater than 38 degrees and feeling unwell or diagnosis of pneumonia
Gee - wonder what they are looking for??
I’ll bring my receipe to work and post on Monday for you. Everyone thinks I am some kind of magician but it is so simple.(I wont tell them the receipe). Another weird thing I have notice the last few weeks is that bargin stores like Walmart, Canaidian tire and even Shopper’s drugmart are advertising specials on crank radios and flash lights. I have never seen this in all my years of flyer looking (with my coffee in the morning).
Thx CG - I’ll be looking forward to it!!
Country Girl – at 10:43 November 24th
I saw on TV news that the government of Canada has denied being involved with a website you named beprepared.ca
Apparently the government did indeed tell people to prepare and the site is getprepared.ca and does not sell product.
So just be careful.
For those technically inclined:
beprepared.ca is owned by a business:
Search multiple Generic and Country Code Top Level Domains
[whois.cira.ca] Status: EXIST Registrar: Namespro Solutions Inc. Registrar-no: 817195 Registrant-no: 1005587 Domaine-no: 1005587 Subdomain: beprepared.ca Renewal-Date: 2007/06/24 Date-Approved: 2004/06/24 Date-Modified: 2006/12/01 Organization: 1595457 Ontario Inc. O/A Axiom Digital Services Description: Survival supplies and information to help prepare your family for disaster. Admin-Name: Colin Pape Admin-Title: Admin-Postal: 1595457 Ontario Inc. O/A Axiom Digital Services
555 Bay Street Suite 202 www.axiom.ca Midland ON L4R 1L4 Canada
Admin-Phone: 705–528–0783 Admin-Fax: Admin-Mailbox: colin@axiom.ca Tech-Name: Colin Pape Tech-Title: Tech-Postal: 1595457 Ontario Inc. O/A Axiom Digital Services
555 Bay Street Suite 202 www.axiom.ca Midland ON L4R 1L4 Canada
Tech-Phone: 705–528–0783 Tech-Fax: Tech-Mailbox: colin@axiom.ca NS1-Hostname: ns10.optimumdns.com NS1-Netaddress: 67.70.226.27
NS2-Hostname: ns11.optimumdns.com NS2-Netaddress: 67.70.226.26
NS3-Hostname: NS3-Netaddress: NS4-Hostname: NS4-Netaddress: NS5-Hostname: NS5-Netaddress: NS6-Hostname: NS6-Netaddress:
YYZ - Good catch!!
Wow. Anon YYZ. I am new around hear but I think I’ll keep an eye on what you have to say. Them don’t get by you. Good Eye.
Country Girl? — 04 December 2006, 15:51
Nah, it’s only a coincidence that I saw it on the news.
IRENE Dec. 1 - I was trying to order from the Internet Grocier. I will try your site. Thanks for your patience. Everyone on this site is really friendly. I checked out this new site but the text is all screwy on my screen. I do accounting/farming so I’m not much of a computer programmer. I like this one but I feel split. Like I might miss some info if I don’t raed through both sites.
Hey Guys. Snowed in at 3–4 feet in Ontario here. Just shoveled out the animals. Must of London, ON is closed down because of snow. A thin strip can through last night and dumped alot more than they predicted. DH got out front loader and shoveled out lane ways. Now he’s gone hunting so I’m all alone with crappy day time tv. Might try out my first bread making from scratch. It’s a good day for that. Anyone want to chat.
Hi CG - the snow is just down your way - nice and sunny over here - bt temp around zero celsius, too cold for anything but sitting by the fire!! I have nice garlicky braised lamb shanks in the oven, smells great! How abt that pickled egg recipe?
You got it Gharris!
12 eggs 1 medium onion thinly sliced 3/4 cup water 1 cup white sugar 1 1/4 cups white vinegar 2 teasponns salt 1 teaspoon dried dill weed 1/4 teaspoon garlic powder 1/2 teaspoon mustard seed.
Put eggs in pot and fill with water till covered. Bring to boil then remove from heat. Let stand for 10 minutes. Cool under running water. Let sit in cold water for 30 minutes. Then remove shells.
In a sausepan combine onion, water, sugar, and vinegar. Stir in salt, dill, garlic powder, and mustard seed. Bring to boil then let simmer over low heat for 5–7 minutes. let cool a bit then pour over eggs in the jar. Refridgerate for at least 7 days. The eggs might turn a little yellow but this is fine.
I’ve never had lamb. I should soon. What else you doing today chef?
CG Eggs sound great!! Cant wait to try it out!!! How long do they last in the jars do you think? I love to cook - my main stress reliever - the lamb was actually for tomorrow, it is better if it sits in fridge overnight for the flavours to develop - today was my son’s bd, so his gf brought LOBSTER fresh from TO for special treat for dinner tonight!! It really was fabulous! Out here in the country we rarely get fresh seafoood - so that was a BIG thrill!! Lamb is wonderful - you really should try it - shoulder chops or shoulder roast are inexpensive and lots of tasty recipes to cook it - just remember ‘low & slow’ which will turn out a tender and yummy meal!! Lots of farmers out our way raise it, so good deals on bulk purchase for freezer. Many lambs are born in Feb/Mar when the barns are still very cold here - when multiple births and the mothers reject the babies, my neighbour fills her laundry tubs with warm water and puts childrens swimming armbands around the baby lambs’ necks and keeps them warm in the tubs - they look so funny - like bobbing for apples!! But it keeps them alive and warm!!
Gharris: You should have a look at the St. Thomas Elgin Health Unit’s new site on Pandemic Flu—They recommend SIP supplies for one week, and face masks for the whole family. What do you know…they are slowly getting it!
Ontario: Province creating own centre for infectious disease control in wake of SARS
TORONTO (CP) - Ontario is creating a centre for disease control so it can be better prepared for another SARS outbreak or flu pandemic, The Canadian Press has learned.
The provincial government is set to introduce legislation Tuesday that would create the Ontario Agency for Health Protection and Promotion, roughly similar to the Centers for Disease Control in the United States, government sources say.
The arm’s-length agency will research infectious diseases and could be called upon to help in a public health emergency like a disease outbreak.
The centre would also be responsible for health promotion and environmental health to reduce the potential for a public health emergency.
“While we hope we never face an outbreak or public health emergency, we have to be prepared,” a government source said. “By bringing together experts to focus on health research, Ontario families will be better protected against future outbreaks and emergencies.”
Details of the centre - including a budget and location - still have to be finalized. The government hopes to pass legislation establishing the centre by the spring.
If the legislation passes, Ontario will be one of the few provinces with its own centre of disease control. British Columbia has one based at the University of British Columbia, while Quebec also has its own public health institute…”
http://tinyurl.com/yfxkf5
also posted on the new forum here
This is Country Girl. Just really wanted people to know this. I wanted to inform all Ontario flu wikians. I ordered 12 cans of cheese and 24 cans of butter from mredepot.com. Every thing was great until last night I got a call from the border at Windsor. The total price for my order was $440.74. The total price for the actual product was $91.95. The large increase, I was informed was because of government butter and cheese tariffs on quota. Basically I was told it is to protect our Dairy industry. How ironic that my DH is a dairy farmer. Apparently these fees are on wine aswell. Something like a 250% fee on the product. The very nice lady called me before she put my order through to inform me of the price jump. She said alot of people don’t about the fees and when there is such an increase she calls them first.
Here’s the kicker. She told me there is a very simple way around these fees. If the order is $20 Canadian dollars or less there are no fees. So basically I can still get what I wanted but I have to order it 3 or 4 cans at a time in one order. So 9 or 10 orders later I will have my butter and cheese. I want to say something about this inefficientcy in the system but I’m still so miffed over all this. Anyone Help?
CG - I think we will be out of luck on butter and cheese - one solution is to look through the old threads re making ‘ghee’ - Asian clarified butter, keeps fairly well if canned properly - cheese substitutes likely the only route - lard and crisco keep well unrefrigerated. Bulk Barn has some (fake?) cheese powders for putting on popcorn that wd do to top casseroles etc, and of course parmesan keeps well in the cardboard tins - The canned butter you order from the States has a fairly limited shelf life by the way - I decided not to bother - use butter flavoured PAM or something instead?
Thanks Gharris. I was really looking forward to trying some. The rep from the company “Steven” was really nice about it and found it interesting.
Question. I’ve read on other sites people saying “they will be watching the swan”. If TSHTF is someone going to send a signal to all the flu wikians through the picture on the main page? If so what?
CG - that story started out as a suggestion from someone abt a ‘quick alert’ for fluwikians (as opposed to having to read all thru the news thread if you are in a hurry) - I suppose they could turn the picture upsidedown - but more likely the announcement that there is confirmed H2H H5N1 (or whatever)in the US or Canada will be in BOLD RED LETTERS across the top of the forum page - on this and the new FW - dont worry - you will see it!! But you should make a habit of checking out the news thread every day anyway - then you can draw your own conclusions abt what is going on in the rest of the world - i.e. we knew abt SARS when it was still in Hong Kong - and a long time before it appeared in Toronto - too bad we didnt act on the advance notice!!
I’ll keep my eye out. I do check the treads everyday - at work :-) and then I usually read through some other ones.