Forum: When Will This Forum Close

and we are transferred to the new forum ? Is there interest to copy the new forum here or on some webpage regularly in a format similar to the old forum ?

Going somewhere?

I’m unsure of your question…but I don’t think there’s any interest in feeding information from “there” to “here” because here is slower, lacks the mechanical tools others wanted that they have over there, etc.

If you’ll scroll the threads here, the news link is probably the only repetitive link that I think we get from over there and it’s just a link to take us there, not a plan that anyone there wants to come here to discuss it, although I’m sure if someone requested that someone from there come here, they would for a specific purpose, just not to hang out with us indefinitely, know what I mean?

The bottom line is that we’re STILL here only by the generosity of the mods. They have absolutely no reason that I can see to keep this place open other than to keep those of us here happy, I guess.

What I wish is that the mods would address how or even if they’re going to address what’s lacking there, that we have here. I guess I need to figure out how to word a question about it.

It’s like they’re proud parents you know, and want to show off the new baby, and we, being the older child, have some reservations about our future in the family. We are shown pictures of the new baby, but that doesn’t help to build the ‘family’ bond over there. hhhmmmm…….how do you explain that?

Good analogy.

Here’s the proud papa part (both pics from this am):

Please note this forum is the middle child. The oldest child is the wiki, which has always been the focus of this public health experiment (see the About Flu Wiki link in the left sidebar, top, and which posters and readers here do not include in the equation. If it were not for the active users and suppliers of information, there’d be little activity anywhere. And, let me stress, that’s due to the activity of the posters, not the mods.

From the mission statement on the main page:

That’s true for the old Forum, the new Forum and the wiki itself. So, since there’s always a need for news, someone posts a news link. If there’s other things you want posted here, YOU do it. ;-)

If it’s not here, it’s because you didn’t do it. If it’s over there, it’s because someone did it over there. And if that’s a problem (I just want to read, I want everyone else to post), I can’t help you. I apologize if that sounds blunt, but I’m trying to get across what the roles are here of the different sites.

And there are different sites. There’s now CE, PFI, PFP, Flutrackers, Agonist, etc. Each has its own personality.

My own opinion is that the Feds are getting more serious, and I think policy re school closure and other mitigation efforts that will affect us all is coming down the pike. I think they need to hear ordinary people’s advice. We are a great source of collective wisdom (not wisdom of the mods, but of us all). We should be in a position to get that voice heard.

Speaking of children (oldest, etc) want another analogy? In my small town, school budgets are 85% of the town budget and therefore have a profound effect on taxes. But how many people (including parents and the fixed income elderly) show up at the town meetings during the budget discussions? Of course, that doesn’t stop people from complaining about their taxes afterwards, but those complaints don’t drive policy as much as the folks that go to the meeting. ;-)

Do you want a voice? Come to the meeting. Post here. Post there. Do something.

In answer to the question, I’ll keep this site up as long as seems practicable, and that depends on several factors, including expense and usage. The new site is much cheaper to administer, including time and money. The new site gets more done in terms of getting the info to the wiki so the world can use it (see pics - and that is our mission). It is certainly possible that this site would stay open as an archived/ news site (i.e. only two or three active threads open - news, rumors, complaints about the new site - well, maybe news and rumors). we don’t know yet.

And when I say we don’t know yet, that is what I mean. Let’s see where we are in January before considering the question.

Dem, I agree that we need to be able to post here and there, etc., and if it doesn’t exist there it’s because someone hasn’t done it. But I do believe that the RIGHT person needs to do it for it to be positive and helpful…….I’ve been writing a post this AM (another long one) with some ideas and comments & I don’t mean them to be read as so much complaint as suggestions or questions about what might can happen to make something better….take a look at it and see if I’ve hit on anything that makes sense to you guys who moderate both sites.

I know there are other sites, but I hate leaving the “death-bed” of this site for another without doing everything I can to preserve the “health and quality” of this site, even in a new location.

I’m not really good with words or expressing myself but I’ve tried to do so in a positive way so that we could talk about changes in a way that might make some constructive differences both technically & emotionally.

Nothing wrong with being a proud papa and I think you realize that we all want in the ‘picture’.

What our birth order is has a profound effect on everything we do and what our behavior patterns might be. As the the youngest in a twenty year range of children, my parents had no choice but allow that I was a free spirit, who always did whatever I chose, as long as I accepted it was my own fault if things didn’t turn out. But they always do seem to work out for me. When the time comes to put old yeller out to pasture, I will remember old aquaintances with fondness, and go on to make new ones,with no regrets.

IWOI, and others- suggestions and comments….

The ‘bump’, that we all know so well and love has been suggested to the software guy that the new forum runs on. He likes the idea and is looking at it for the next upgrade. The mods don’t have direct control of the software, they can only work within the capabilities of the current platform. The reason for the forum moving is that this one can’t take the full volume of traffic…..period. It’s not trying to leave anyone behind so don’t take it personally.

If you want a customized listing of your favorite diaries on the new forum, the ones you want to see first- just click on the (+) next to the Diary title and it’s on your Hot list. Or check out the no-text listing Diary. Or- and I highly recommend this, try out the main page listing- just for a few days. There is nothing you can’t find between the search function and the Main Diary listing.

The posters there are the same wonderful people who posted here. With the addition of course of some new people that have arrived recently. As I see it, the new forum is where the future of the Fluwiki forum lies, simply because the platform can handle it. I don’t think of this as the ‘death bed’ of Fluwiki forum, more as the rebirth. We all need to think- is our cup half full or half empty? Would we be better off if we were all still here and the site crashed twice a week? How many people would be helped that way? We all need to decide where we want to place our efforts, where we can do the most good.

Regarding info being moved from there to here, the problem is time. There are only so many hours in the day and everyone here is a volunteer, including the mods. It would be impossible to make this site a ‘mirror’ of the other. Moving info daily for even one thread/diary is time consuming, I know cause I did it for awhile with the news. It’s just too labor-intensive to do it on an ongoing basis. There are alot of projects going on and for everyone, here and there- or both:-) there is no shortage of work to be done.

Your suggestions are welcome and valuable. So are the questions. We have to remember that some of the questions just can’t be answered right now and that not all of the suggestions are possible. We are all in this together and have to work together to move forward. If you see a problem or a possibility for improvement regarding the forum or putting info on the wiki, maybe take a moment to think how you can help make that happen. Then do it. Every little bit counts.

Hi I haven’t posted here for quite a while, simply because there are not enough hours in a day for me recently, and always, everyday, I have to make some choices, some triage, between flying, going to meetings, writing, researching background info, writing emails, trying to find a house (still not happening), sleep (averaging about 6 hours a day), thinking about Xmas shopping (haven’t done any), rescuing dying PC’s, trying to get fit (not happening either), get some preps (hadn’t done any for 3 months) etc.

I’m not trying to be flippant about this, and I do appreciate there are a lot of changes happening and it will take a while to make things comfortable for everyone. But what I AM trying to say is to reflect on what Dem has said, that this whole flu wiki and/or forum exercise is a self-initiated, audience-generated product. We are only as good as all the people who put their hearts and minds and sweat to it, and every single one of us can roll up our sleeves and participate.

Of course there will be some who have more aptitude or inclination to do certain things than others, and rightly so. The new forum was a real challenge for me, everything that everyone said about the 3 columns, can’t find stuff, you name it, it was a problem for me. Like I said, I was severely queasy and not able to see or think straight for the first couple of days until the colors were changed.

But OTOH, I really don’t think it is rocket science, to figure out how to use the new forum. And, at the end of the day, information is information, whether it is on a yellow background or stuck between two annoying sidebars. The question that I would suggest for some folks to reflect on, is what is your purpose, what are you trying to find, to do, to achieve by visiting the forum?

See, if we ever have a pandemic, the world will change so dramatically there will be plenty of things that we will have to get used to very quickly. So if in the meantime, you get a new forum, and the mods and other contributors have for weeks now patiently been giving help to everyone who asks, encouraging people, changing things around within the limits possible for the software (think of all the other different software that you use that can’t ever do exactly what you want it to do).

I do agree that the new format is less conducive to that coziness that was unique here. OTOH, I see a lot of benefit in the threads or diaries being a lot more topic focused, and there is far less conversation drift. It is only when you have a group of people discussing one issue in a focused and thoughtful manner that you begin to get the best ‘hive mind’ products. The more loosely structured, cozy, friendly atmosphere here is stimulating enough, but it doesn’t take a lot to interrupt and disrupt an excellent developing line of thought, and many a time, I’ve become frustrated because opportunities were lost where people could have gone deeper into discussions instead of just ranting. btw there is far less ranting over there, I notice, so it’s not so good if that’s one of your favorite pastimes, but it is a blessing for a lot of others who might have been silent up to now, seeing as ranters tend to be more vocal, by definition!! ;-)

I’m absolutely with Dem in that the Feds are coming out with important policies that may make a lot of difference to millions of families. How do I know? I sit in the room and talk to them. I engage them in debate as to what is best, what is enough evidence, how to reach the people, how to overcome objections, when are we f***ed (still in most scenarios, unfortunately), learning and sharing at the same time.

But who am I? How did I get to this point, where I get a place at the table, however minor or transient, in this big policymaking process? Did I get here by talking about what someone else should be giving me? Or did I just go with whatever is available, put my shoulders against the wall, and push, and work, and WORK! And come up with stuff that is useful for others.

I’m sorry to say this, but it is absolutely true that there is no free lunch. You get what you give out, that’s what happens in life.

On the subject of when this forum will close? I defer to Dem’s decision, cos he’s the one who has been a saint in all of this, IMHO. OTOH, if I were to put in my 2 cents’ worth? There’s a lot of things that need doing, on networking with the various players in PH, making sure the blogosphere stays informed of developments, figure out a way to connect with MSM, talking to local authorities, and just generally putting our brains together on this pandemic problem.

Btw, we just spent a whole day brainstorming policy, and I drove a 6 hour round trip to meet him to do that. That’s what we’ve been doing with our time, when you don’t see us online. So personally? I would prefer that Dem has more time left over than what he spends herding some people, which is different from helping people, btw. Cos there’s plenty of things we want to do and can do, that is not visible here. All of that needs time. Dem is a saint, as I said, and he doesn’t complain. Me? I’m sorry, I’m just no good at anything else than telling it like it is. If it is any comfort to any of you, I do the same with everyone, Feds included.

I would prefer copying threads from the old forum to the new forum, and index them by subject and tags. In order to do this, it may be necessary to make this forum read only. When most if not all useful content have been moved, then the old forum can be shut down. I can’t see the logic for the mods to spend their time baby sitting the few who will never take the initiative to learn or contribute. I would prefer the mods spend their time making the new forum even better, I think for the greater good for the most people.

Well, it sounds a wee bit harsh and it is not the mod’s attitude. So, it just goes to show that by definition, mods can’t win (we either are too cold-hearted or too lax).

Therefore, we generally go by the mods’ rule: ‘be reasonable, do it our way.”

it is the only way to stay sane.

If those that prefer this forum want to take over the costs and time associated with running it then I am sure that can be arranged …

When the Wiki was first established, this forum was NOT envisaged as part of it - this grew from the need of those visiting and contributing to the Main Wiki … The software that runs this site was chosen as the best for the type of function that the main Wiki is there for - it was never intended that a forum-style use would evolve - and this software is not intended for that - hence all the problems with slowness, postings being dropped, spamming etc etc etc.

Fortunately, through all of this, the Mods saw the amazing value that the forum-style activity has brought to the information gathering and dissemination process so they chose to ensure it survived - the only way to achieve this was to move to appropriate software for facilitating a forum site - hence the new site.

I am, and will forever be, exceedingly grateful for what the Mods have GIVEN us and their ongoing efforts to facilitate. I had to learn to navigate this site and now I have learned to navigate the new site - if they find they have to change again I would learn again - as I find the value of the information and sharing far outweighs the platform it is delivered on.

ANON-YYZ - I agree wholeheartedly - why should the Mods babysit this site - they are truely benevolent folk.

If I see one more thread started here whingeing about the fact the forum has moved to another platform, I think I would lead the charge to recommend to the Mods that they just close it down - why waste their MONEY AND TIME on the ungrateful.

AnneB-If I see one more thread started here whingeing about the fact the forum has moved to another platform, I think I would lead the charge to recommend to the Mods that they just close it down - why waste their MONEY AND TIME on the ungrateful.

Ungrateful, I don’t think so, its the attitude like you have that makes us feel unwelcome.

I am more then capable of using any internet site, blog…that is created. Technology is not my problem and I can probably learn it faster then most.

I’m trying to find a middle ground, I stopped making comments and have tried to help in little ways that I’m sure no one has noticed. I understand what is happening but comments such as yours don’t help. PMSing my dear?

KimT — 17 December 2006, 20:38

I don’t think AnnieB addressed you unless you thought she did. I can see frustration on all sides. It was unfortunately a bit much that several threads were repeatedly started without saying so much as please or thank you, but ranting and whining. Dem is more than a saint, but he should not be abused.

KimT

I see some of the things you do, and appreciate all of them!

We’re all trying, folks. Patience.

Since the question has been answered as best we can, here’s the How Mods Can Help to Make New Forum Better thread to work on now.

Dem, thanks.

Even tho I am able to navigate the FW2 and was able to understand it right away I understand what the diehards here are saying and feel their pain.

Nothing or very little can be done about it except perhaps by inclusion in a different fashion then has happened yet and even then it will never be the same.

There was magic here! A great blend of everything you could have asked for and without you, the other mods and the great participation of all the people I would not be as informed or prepped and I would probably be having an emotional adjustment that would not be pretty; as it is my pucker factor stays pretty low.

I get it. I really do. We are moving forward with different formats and we can’t go back to the exact way it was before.

Even tho I will never meet anyone that has been here on FW I have learned to care for them and some of the rants that I rarely became involved with and the off topic discussion that happened helped create a wierd on-line bond and would like to see it continue specially when TSHTF, we are going to need each other.

Thanks again.