Forum: Water Preparations II

continued from here.

Wolf and pfwag, thank you for your response, Long Beach, thank you for speaking my thoughts. IMO the birds won’t be our problem and I will still disinfect with chlorine but it will be after filtering. Chlorine is very hard on charcoal filters, you will need to keep track of how much water goes through and replace when needed. I hope that I never have to use the Katadyn.

Chesapeake - me too. I hope I don’t NEED any of my preps. That is why I told my wife to take back all the single layer, prison grade, TP she bought on sale. I hope to eventually use all the preps which is why we have lots of 2-ply Charmin. If nothing else, I won’t have to buy any TP for a year or so. I will keep the microbiological filter on my tap though. Just too much stuff in the water and too many mistakes happening.

Ok, was shoppping over on Nitro-pak and found this new stuff called “Aerobic Stabilized Oxygen” in stock to stablize your tap water for longer term storage — like for 5 years without rotation! I think that sounds great!!!!

I’ll copy some of the info below there’s more on the webpage which I’ll list below — what do you all think of this stuff??

Effective Against Harmful Anaerobic Bacteria

Unlike chlorine or iodine, Stablized Oxygen acts selectively and DOES NOT harm beneficial aerobic bacteria which is needed for good health. Most diseases and putrefying bacteria are anaerobic and cannot survive in the presence of concentrated oxygen.

Effective Against:*

Salmonella Cholera E. Coli Streptococcus Pseudamonas Staphylococcus Various parasites and microorganisms including Giardia Lamblia

• Harvard University, Cambridge Massachusetts

Stanford University, California PSI Laboratory, Texas

Effective Against Bacteria & Microbes in Drinking Water

Stablized Oxygen is effective against harmful bacteria and microbes in drinking water without the need to boil the water. *Laboratory reports shows that 10 drops of Oxy-Stabile Stablized Oxygen in 8 ounces of mountain water is effective against Giardia in just three minutes. It’s a must when hiking, camping, mountain climbing, disasters, or when traveling… especially to third world countries where untreated water can be a major problem. Non-toxic and virtually odorless and tasteless when used as directed. Stablized oxygen is a liquid concentrate of non-toxic stablized electrolytes of OXYGEN in molecular form. It contains various oxides of chlorite. Oxygen molecules are stablized to chlorite molecules derived from salts. Components: Water Electroytes, Oxygen, Carbonates, Sodium, Chlorites and Sulfates.

Can also be used to treat water for immediate drinking and as a “natural” antibiotic. Disinfects scratches, cuts and minor wounds.

Directions Immediate drinking: Use 5 to 10 drops per 8 ounce cup. For extended water storage: For normal treated tap water use 1 ounce per 55 gallon barrel, or when using non-treated well or stream water, use 20 drops per gallon (up to 5 year without the need of rotation).

2 ounces treats 110 gallons of tap water Effective Against Harmful Bacteria No Water Rotation for 5 years!

What is *Aerobic Stabilized Oxygen™?

Aerobic Stabilized Oxygen™ (ASO) is an aqueous solution of nontoxic electrolytes of oxygen in molecular form identical to the molecules in the respiratory system. Molecular oxygen is the correct source of life and energy to all cells and plays a critical role in the proper functioning of the immune system.

Discovered approximately 70 years ago by a research scientist/medical doctor. In 1971 this proprietary formula became available to the late E.D. Goodloe. Acquiring further documentation, he introduced ASO to the American public.

Today, the ever popular *Aerobic Stabilized Oxygen™ is as much in demand as the first day it was introduced. Normal flora (friendly bacteria) is stimulated creating a hostile environment for anaerobes. ASO is non-caloric, not a drug nor a toxic hydrogen peroxide product and can be used in cool liquids at anytime, anywhere. Interestingly, chlorinated tap water odor dissipates after five to 10 drops of ASO is added to 6 to 8 oz. of water.

Many companies market stabilized oxygen products in the USA and Canada enrich themselves claiming Mr. Goodloe’s research and laboratory data as their own which is not true. Of utmost importance is recognizing stabilized oxygen products are not of equal quality. Aerobic Stabilized Oxygen™ embodies the highest molecular oxygen level (parts per million) marketed worldwide, guaranteed authentic only when E.D. Goodloe’s name appears on the label.

• Formerly Aerobic 07

Here’s the website link:

http://www.nitro-pak.com/product_info.php?products_id=1137

I read an article SOMEWHERE awhile back that discussed how water that has been somehow super-saturated with oxygen is a near-miracle germ-killer… they were investigating using it in wounds to prevent infection and speed healing. Sorry I don’t have time to do a google search on this, but from what little I’ve read I believe they may be onto something.

thx Kim! Anyone else with an opinion?

I’m-workin’-on-it

I’m-workin’-on-it – at 21:35
See http://www.chem1.com/CQ/ionbunk.html

Oh my gosh Dennis! I can’t believe some people believe some of that way way way out stuff — but then I was beginning to believe the drops might help extend storage time! OK so I realize now the stuff isn’t going to do any good! You’ve saved me and possibly lots more people a lot of money! Thanks!

heck, that was supposed to have my ‘other’ name

There are right ways and wrong ways to have pure drinking water.

Here are some more links on various miracle waters and treatments:

American Council on Exercise (ACE) Study Investigates Super Oxygenated Water Claims http://tinyurl.com/o2ff7

AMA study on claims of boosted sports performance http://tinyurl.com/qd2xm

Super-Oxygenated Water Is Latest Sports Scam http://tinyurl.com/n7lnl

Oxygenated Water http://www.ultrunr.com/ox-water.html

Aqua Scams http://www.chem1.com/CQ/

Cluster Quackery http://www.chem1.com/CQ/clusqk.html

Oxy Scams http://www.chem1.com/CQ/oxyscams.html

http://www.randi.org/jr/08-24-01.html

http://www.randi.org/jr/08-31-01.html

http://www.randi.org/jr/110201.html (about 3/4 of the way down)

http://www.randi.org/jr/083002.html (about 1/2 of the way down)

http://www.randi.org/jr/121903lins.html (just over 1/2 of the way down)

Water Structure and Behavior http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/

Magnetic water http://tinyurl.com/rv4yw

Index of Water-Related Frauds and Quackery http://tinyurl.com/nvr3b

With that in mind, caveat emptor.

The closest “miracle” for treating water I know of is two part chlorine dioxide.

Just oxygen does little. However Ozone does help purify water. I normally use Cl. I do have a solar powered ozone system if I run out of “bleach”. (Some cities like Nice France use Ozone sytems. Ozone is O3)

I want one of these!

“A company that developed technology capable of creating water out of thin air nearly anywhere in the world is now under contract to nourish U.S. soldiers serving in Iraq.

The water-harvesting technology was originally the brainchild of the Pentagon’s Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, which sought ways to ensure sustainable water supplies for U.S. combat troops deployed in arid regions like Iraq.”

http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0%2C71898-0.html?tw=wn_index_2

Not sure which thread to ask this question, but will try here. I’ve come across some blue plastic 55-gal drums that used to contain animal fat (oleic acid). Are these safe for drinking water after cleaning, and if so, what’s the best way of cleaning them?

Water is a big concern for me…I’m comfortable with our food preps, but somewhat just starting on the water issue. I have stored away a few new Brute commercial trashcans that are NSF Food Contact 2 approved, and some 5-gal water containers from Wally World, but am thinking we can’t have too much water.

Thanks for any input.

Bilbo - it might depend on what the animal fat was used for. Usually commercial grade food and water grade plastic containers are white. In any case, it should have a little triangle with arrows in the legs and a number inside the triangle which dileneates what type of plastic it is. Here is a link to the codes: http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/plastics.html

General guidelines for removing Odors and Stains From food-grade HDPE containers.

Since HDPE containers are somewhat porous, they can hold odors and stains from strong foods like pickles or barbecue sauce. If you can get some free 4 or 5 gallon food grade pails try this cleaning routine:

• Clean out as much “gunk” like oil or shortening as possible using paper towels. • Wash the bucket inside and out with warm, soapy water, then rinse. • Pour ½ cup of bleach into the bucket and fill with warm water all the way to the top. Stir to mix, then put on the lid, or cover with aluminum foil. • Let the bucket sit in the sun for several days, then empty and rinse out. • Pour 1 cup of baking soda into the bucket and fill with warm water all the way to the top. Stir to dissolve, then put on the lid, or cover with aluminum foil. • Let the bucket sit in the sun for several days, then empty and rinse out. • Rinse again inside and out with warm water with 1 teaspoon of bleach added then let dry with the lid or cap off.

If the container has a lid or cap, be sure to clean and disinfect it too.

Also read: “Cleaning and Disinfecting Water Storage Tanks and Tankers” by the WHO and adapt as necessary. http://tinyurl.com/gck96

pfwag

Thanks for the info. The containers are the blue HPTE 2 type, but only have a couple of 3″ holes at the top with screw-in plugs. Not too much smell from them…kind of a vegatable oil smell. I’ll try cleaning them and seeing if any smell at all lingers.

Oops..I meant to say HDPE 2.

Bilbo: An HDPE (#2) is what you want. However, you might have to cut a big hole in the top to be able to clean out the leftover gunk. Since you are removing grease, you’ll need lots of hot soapy water.

how about HDPE #2 that held peroxcide for swimming pools can it be cleaned out and used for water storage safely?

Kim, that might depend on how much peroxide seeps into the plastic and is then subsequently released when it is filled with water. While you can drink some peroxide I don’t know what the safety limit is. A chemist friend told me you can get test strips for all sorts of different chemicals so you could determine the ppm concentration once you find out what the safe level is. If I had to guess, rinsing it out a few times will render it OK.

Ideally, you would want to rinse with a benigh substance, such as baking soda, that would neutralize any residual peroxide. There is another Flu wiki thread http://www.fluwikie2.com/pmwiki.php?n=Forum.QuestionsForChemist where you could ask.

Thank you pfwag – at 21:19 I will ask.

Seeking food grade barrels, I went to my local soft drink distributor and asked if they had any empty 55 gallon barrels for sale. They did not; they do not store them in my city. I guess my look of disappointment struck a chord, and the foreman offered to try to get some empties sent in — how many did I need? I told him I needed four. Today, he called me and said they were here. I picked them up and brought them home. The barrels were actually free, I just paid $40 baksheesh to the foreman for his trouble. (“That’s bribery!” “Oh, let’s not call it that.” “Well that’s what it is!” “I know, but let’s not call it that.”)

Thanks to Dennis in Colorado, I now also have 2 beautiful 55 gallon barrels that used to hold soft drinks. Our local distributor gave me the phone number of the nearest bottling company (about 4 hours away). When I called them, they eagerly consented and would have given me as many as I wanted. I was expecting to have to make a road trip to pick them up, but they said “we’ll just put them on the truck tonight to your local distributor.” They’re mine, they were free and they smell like lemon-lime soda. What more could you ask for? If anyone is still seeking a source for water barrels, I would encourage you to consider the beverage company nearest you!! Thanks for the idea, Dennis!

nebraska cats – at 18:28 - Are your barrels open or closed head?

Mari – at 18:32 MIne are closed head, which I first viewed with disappointment. But I figure I can rig a siphon system (don’t quite know how to do this yet, but I love the thrill of the research)which may actually prove beneficial. Assuming I can remove the siphon hose at night, it may prevent others from easily helping themselves to my water (of course they could bring their own hose, but I’m trying to focus on the positive)! Perhaps Dennis in Colorado could respond also - closed or open?

The little siphon pumps work great. The higher the source compared to the sink, the better. And if you have to pump the last bit manually, it’s no big deal. It’s another reason to put your barrels up on some boards.

I got my barrels from Pepsi.

Also free.

A pressure washer and warm water cleaned them out well.

Sanitized with a bleach rinse, followed by a baking soda wash to get rid of any odor, then a final rinse and pressure wash.

I’ve been using them for a couple of years with no problem.

I did buy some extra bung plugs however. They were a bit worse for ware on the barrels I got.

A pressure washer is your best friend with barrels.

I pressure wash them with every water change at 6 month intervals, to keep any biofilm down.

nebraska cats – at 18:45
The four barrels I acquired are closed, though it appears the whole drum top CAN be removed. Each of mine has two bung holes on top, one of which (on each barrel) has been unsealed. All four barrels have the plug screwed back into place, so they can be a fully-closed container after filling with water.
If you choose to not just suck on a piece of tubing to start the siphon, there are several options:
http://beprepared.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_WS%20S100_A_name_E_Siphon%20Pump $13
http://www.survivalsuppliers.com/products/disaster/shelterngear/waterpump.htm $20
http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/iid/8835/cid/2160 $52

Mari – at 19:08 … put your barrels up on some boards. An excellent point. Also bear in mind that, unless you are a dedicated power lifter, you’ll want to do that before filling the barrels, and the platform on which you set the barrels should be sturdy. Fifty-five gallons of water weighs more than 455 pounds. My barrels weigh 21 pounds each. Four of them filled with water would be just over 1900 pounds … almost a ton.

Dennis in Colorado – at 20:14 - I’ve heard of people who cut out the inside part of the closed head lid, but they found that the barrel didn’t hold its shape very well afterwards. I found that same problem with the closed head drums, but they come with a ring & bolt that can be kept fastened to keep the drum top round (the lid fits on even with the ring fastened).

Thanks, Mari. I don’t see a need to remove the head from my barrels (though I suppose if one were to use them for storage of dry goods, that would be desireable). This weekend I’ll rinse them with bleach, close all bung holes, and keep them ready to fill.

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