From Flu Wiki 2

Forum: Alternative Therapies for Pandemic Flu

10 October 2006

The Doctor – at 21:47

A Two-Tract Strategy for Those Interested in an Alternative Influenza Therapy

There is tremendous interest in potential alternative and natural therapies for influenza. The search for a natural treatment has become a Holy Grail for some. Many are desperate in their quest to discover an effective alternative treatment for flu. In truth, some of the proposed therapies have underlying biological plausibility. For instance, the statin class of anti-cholesterol drugs has been discussed as a possible therapy for cytokine storm. Elderberry may have an antiviral effect. Agents like these and others that hold even the slimmest promise of being effective in the treatment or management of influenza are already being scheduled for placebo controlled randomized clinical trials.

Disturbingly, a subculture of modern-day snake-oil salesmen are praying on people terrified by the prospect of pandemic flu. These unscrupulous profiteers sell their wares on the Internet to gullible seekers trying to secure a measure of safety from the pandemic surge. They make unsubstantiated claims of effectiveness and safety for their wares.

The US FDA has taken steps to squelch these activities but so far these efforts have met with little success. The agency lacks credibility with many of the potential customers for these unproven therapies making their warnings less effective. In fact, some find the agencies condemnation of these treatments as the best endorsement the seller could have!

The problem with alternative therapies is that most of them simply don’t work. Most but not all are harmless except for the cost to the consumer. These therapies could cause indirect harm in the case where the consumer eschews effective conventional therapy for an ineffective alternative or natural one.

Pandemic influenza is a deadly disease but one that humankind is well evolved to cope with. Our ancestors have lived through countless pandemics and survived. They did so without access to Tamiflu, hospital care, or anything more than rudimentary treatment knowledge. It is possible, in fact likely, that there will be no effective drug therapy widely available for this pandemic. Sure, Tamiflu may help some; a vaccine could become available for a minority of the population 6 months after the pandemic strain emerges, but the majority of people will be depending upon the strength of their immune system and common sense treatments like those found in the booklet, Good Home Treatment of Influenza (link) as the mainstay of therapy. It is important to understand these simple measures, when conscientiously applied are very effective. Just because they are simple and can be adequately employed by everyday folks without prior medical training in no way detracts from their power to successfully support the patient during a severe influenza infection. Good home care is not the last resort of the medically bereft and abandoned. On the contrary, it is a highly efficacious approach to management of the mild to severely ill patient that will save many lives when contentiously applied.

For those engaged in the search for an alternative or natural therapy for pandemic influenza, I recommend you consider adopting a two-tract strategy. This simple approach accepts the virtue of conventional therapy while continuing to pursue the quest for an effective alternative. Following the two-tract strategy entails securing the items and minimal medical skills needed to provide good home care of influenza like those specified in the Flu Treatment Kit found in the booklet, Good Home Treatment of Influenza (link). Once you’ve got the conventional bases covered, then the pursuit of alternative therapies may continue. These can even be administered alongside the conventional therapy in the hope that at least one of the approaches would be effective. The key is not to deny the patient the benefit of simple conventional therapy on the chance that an alternative treatment may be better. As long as the conventional and alternative therapies are not contradictory, there is no reason they cannot be used together. Hence, for those interested in alternative therapies for flu, following the two-tract strategy has the virtue of taking advantage of the simple but effective conventional therapy while not giving up the hope of a potential alternative approach.

Grattan Woodson, MD, FACP

De jure – at 23:12

Thank you for your common-sense, practical tips on how to handle pandemic flu, Dr. Woodson. I have reviewed the section on caring for children, pg. 23 et. seq. and still have questions regarding this issue. It seems that even pediatricians at times struggle with medicines oriented more toward adults, and I can think of no greater problems than those that will surface with children. Specifically, Mucinex seems like it would be a useful OTC for kids, but doesn’t offer dosages for small children. My main concern is finding something, whether conventional or alternative, that will address the problem of labored breathing in children. I fully understand your concern for keeping children hydrated and plan to attack this problem vigorously. However, is there anything else you might offer in the way of suggestions regarding the respiratory problems that we parents of small children are likely to encounter, particularly if the H5N1 is the virus that causes the next pandemic? Thank you in advance for any further consideration which you might give this issue.

11 October 2006

The Doctor – at 16:27

This is a very important issue and one we are going to have to deal with during the pandemic. As said, adequate hydration is a must and goes before all other approaches. If the child is dehydrated, the mucus in the lungs becomes thickened and very had to cough up.

That said, next comes humidified air. First would be use of a humidifier. Second is steam. Since flu loves cold weather and winter is associated with lower relative humidities, use of a humidifier helps everyone; especially kids keep their respiratory tree open including the (estuation) tubes to the ear, sinus openings, and lung breathing passages. Steam is very effective in relieving breathing problems, especially croup-like barking coughs that little guys and dolls sometimes have. A steam tent is something that you can make on your own. I have provided some instructions for doing this on the Bird Flu Manual website, here is the link.

http://www.birdflumanual.com/articles/steam_tent.asp

Interestingly enough, croup responses equally well to cold dry air as it does to hot steamy air. So if your child has a croupy cough and it is cold and dry outside, carry them outside for a few minutes and get them to take deep breaths.

The Bird Flu Manual has several other suggestions on this not included in the Good Home Care of Influenza. It is available at this link.

http://www.birdflumanual.com/panPrepStore/storeitemlister.asp?cat=books

An asthma attack precipitated by influenza is a special case. Warm steamy air is most effective for the relief of shortness of breath due of bronchospasm, AKA twitchy airways, seen with asthma. When the breathing tubes go into spasm, the child wheezes when the breathe. The condition’s seriousness can be roughly gauged by the wheeze’s tone, timing, and loudness. Loud, low-pitched, expiratory only wheezing indicated mild spasm. As the pitch rises in tone, the seriousness of the spasm increases. The faster the breathing rate, the more serious the problem and if the wheezing is heard both in inspiration and expiration, this too is a sign of a moderately severe spasm of the bronchial passages. The worst sign is that the child’s breathing becomes labored and the child is not moving much air at all. They can exhibit a bluefish or dusky skin tone (cyanosis) with this, which is a very dangerous sign. The pitch of the breathing is very high and becomes much quieter. These are very bad signs and usually precede respiratory failure or the cessation of breathing. Of course, this is a fatal event and is how children with asthma die from their disease.

These events are possible for a child with asthma who develops flu. It is not likely otherwise. So, if one of your children has asthma, be sure and lay in at least a 3-month supply of her medication. I would also talk to your doctor about getting some an emergency supply of prednisone and possibly an epi-pen. The epi-pen used for treatment of allergic reactions to bee stings but could be used off-label for treatment of severe life threatening bronchospasm. This is only available by prescription so it is something your pediatrician would need to prescribe. In contrast to croup, cold dry air can precipitate an asthma attack so exposing the asthmatic child to cold dry air is not recommended.

I hope this provides some help. The best source of information on this will be your child’s pediatrician. I suggest that you seek her advise about this issues as she is the person who knows how best to help your child.

Grattan Woodson, MD, FACP

NJ Jeeper – at 16:34

Simple steam tent: When I was a child my mother put an open umbrella on my bed, put a sheet over it and me and put the little electric steamer with the liquid medicine in it on the bedside table. It too was under the sheet.

Guess it worked, I’m still herer.

NauticalManat 16:49

Doctor Woodson, your original publication on preparing for Pandemic influenza is what grabbed me and has made me into a fluwiki readin’, preppin’, spread the word whether wanted or not person! Have your original small book, have given out many copies, and plan on obtaining a copy of the new one.

One question I have is on the obtaining of prescription meds. Have managed to obtain Tamiflu, Phenergan, antibiotics, no thanks to my long time GP, but notice that your original recommendations for things like diazepam and hydrocodone are no longer listed in your new guide for home care. Are these things still something that it would be optimal to have in a worse case situation, or have you decide to leave these out because, as in my situation, most physicians will not give out a scrip for these before hand? Thanks for putting yourself out there long before most others.

ironmagnolia – at 16:54

Dr. Woodson—Thank you for for your guidance in home care for the flu patient. I am a HCW, but I have printed off your info for my family to use in case I am out of commission for some reason, and am laying in the stock of supplies you suggest to better take care of my family during the possible pandemic.

A question—have you heard of a Mustard Plaster? This is an old remedy used when I was a child to break-up congestion in the lungs so it can be coughed up effectively. As well as I can remember, one makes a paste with dry mustard and water, spreads it on a cloth which is then applied directly to the chest. It heats up by chemical reaction, loosening the chest congestion.

I can remember having my Mom use it on me, and even as an adult with seasonal flu, she applied one and I was able to cough effectively after that.

Would this be something useful for a flu patient during a pandemic, especially if the patient were at home with no other medical intervention? Would it now be considered dangerous for some reason?

Thanks, Ironmagnolia

anonymous – at 23:18

Bump

12 October 2006

The Doctor – at 06:53

NauticalMan

The booklet, Good Home Care for Influenza, does not have any suggestions for prescription drugs because I wanted it to be something the consumer could do on their own without the cooperation of their doctor. As we know, many doctors have not been willing to prescribe drugs of potential use during a pandemic to their patients for a variety of reasons. To avoid this problem, I removed them from the booklet.

I still recommend the prescription drugs and have added one or two more to the list found in the Bird Flu Preparedness Planner in the new book, The Bird Flu Manual. The new book has a considerably expanded treatment section. Included are detailed instructions on how to use the over the counter drugs found in the booklet as well as all the prescription drugs. There is also a chapter on Home Compounding of Drugs into oral solutions. Oral solutions provide considerable dose variability to the consumer that is especially useful when administering them to kids. There are tables on children’s dosing too, which are not the same as adult dose. In case you’re interested, here is a link for the Bird Flu Manual.

http://www.birdflumanual.com/panPrepStore/storeitemlister.asp?cat=books

The Doctor – at 06:54

ironmagnolia

I have not had any experience with mustard plasters for chest congestion but would be interested in learning about them.

Grattan Woodson, MD, FACP

NJ Jeeper – at 08:10

Doc, what is your opinion of the antibiotics people have been getting from the vet stores? ie Pennicillin tablets etc. Are these the last resort if you have a desperate need no pharmacy open?

The Doctor – at 19:41

Regarding use of veterinary antibiotics for treatment of flu complications

Antibiotics manufactured for animals are essentially the same as those for people. What is important is to have the right antibiotics to treat complications of flu. You also need to know the proper does to administer and the length of time to give it. Most human pathogens are resistant to penicillin and ampicillin, so these would not be good choices. In prospect, in my opinion the most useful antibiotics are those effective for common causes of community acquired pneumonia, sinusitis, and otitis media (inner ear infection) because these are the antibiotic responsive complications of influenza we can expect to encounter during the pandemic. The most common causes of these conditions respond to erythromycin, tetracycline, azithromycin, and ciprofloxin. Another option for some causes of CAP is sulfamethoxazole combined with trimethoprim. Of these choices, azithromycin is the one I prefer but this may not have entered the veterinary formulary as yet. Erythromycin is my second choice. Ciprofloxin is an excellent alternative if you can get it. See The Bird Flu Manual for a discussion of community acquired pneumonia complicating influenza and its treatment.

An important way to prevent an important cause of these flu complications is to get a Pneumovax vaccination. This shot will protect you against 23 strains of pneumococci, a leading cause of pneumonia, sinusitis, and otitis media. The vaccine last for many years, 10+ in most folks. You can get it at your doctor’s office, the local health department, and sometimes at drug or grocery stores during flu vaccine drives.

Grattan Woodson, MD, FACP

seacoast – at 20:45

bump

The day after tomorrow – at 21:57

I had heard that researchers at Seoul National University had discovered that Kimchi (fermented cabbage) had positive results in treating bird flu. So I thought well surely not only Kimchi would work perhaps other fermented foods would work too. Maybe they could work better and maybe there would be something more widely available.

Here is an exert from http://www.omogari.biz/kimchi.html

Lactic acid bacteria isolated from kimchi have antimicrobial activity against unfavorable microorganisms such as E. coli, Staphylococus aureus, Bacillus cereus, etc. In addition to this, it was reported that major lactic acid bacteria such as Leuconostoc mesenteroides, Lactobacillus brevis, L. fermentum, and L. plantarum in kimchi suppressed the mutagenicity of certain kinds of mutagens 4-NQC, MelQ and Trp-P2. In some experiments, Mouse which was fed by L. plantarum isolated from kimchi showed also immunostimulation effect. The active factors were presumed to be the cell wall constituents of microorganism. Moreover, it was reported that factors in fermented cabbage of kimchi inhibit the synthesis of enzyme, which mediate the conversion of procarcinogens to proximal carcinogens involved in colon cancer.

The Korean team had speculated that it was the L.Platarium that was chiefly responsible for the recovery. (Which has a probiotic effect and increases the body’s immune response as at least 70% of the body’s immune system resides in the intestines) However this strain was the least prolific; however this same strain is the most prolific in Organic Apple Cider Vinegar, another naturally fermented food.

http://www.enzymestuff.com/probiotics.htm

http://www.advance-health.com/fourthievesvinegar.html

pfwag – at 22:22

From two MDs:

Promising cure to URTI pandemics including the Avian flu: has the final solution to the coming plagues been discovered?

Part 1 link

Part 2 http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0ISW/is_273/ai_n16118925

While only anecdotal, we have been successfully using the cure for years for URTIs, although with a different protocol.

Closed - Bronco Bill27 December 2006, 14:04

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