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Forum: Solar Panel Group Buy

20 November 2006

Strider – at 11:45

reposted from TGFA: Annoyed Max—Not mad yet – at 09:49 in TheGRIDFinalAnalysis “ok who is with me….group buy on solar panels?”

You probably said it in jest, but I know that I would buy, and so would many others here on the Wikie. Probably deserves its own thread, and someone knowledgeable to take the lead (Eccles, where are you?) And from the sounds of things, we should get them sooner rather than latter.

I know the hive has had many discussions on solar panels and 12 v., but many here are intimidated by the complexity of a total solar power system. Perhaps one of our resident guru’s would take a swing at spec’ing out a basic 15 watt system for charging AAA through D cell batteries, and a >45 watt system with deep cycle batteries for more advanced uses. Then we could standardize on the design and do a group order so that more of us can “see the light”.

Comments anyone?

Frontier RN – at 12:17

I’ve been interested in purchasing solar power of some kind for our small home and twenty acres for some time now, but no matter how many websites I explore, it’s still all “Greek” to me. We are two adults, have propane and wood burning stoves and would like solar to keep the well pump going, refrigerator, and freezer. We have a small solar panel that recharges the batteries for our RV and can use that for small appliances. What stumps me is how to set up something solar for the house. I would be interested in a group buy if anyone could put together some kind of package for a small home that isn’t too complex to install. A combination of wind and solar would also work for our location. My husband would be able to install, he’s just got too many chores right now to dream up a system for us. Thanks for any ideas you might come up with.

MO Molly – at 13:14

I think it is a great idea! Count me in. What I qould really like is some way to keep a portable DVD player running for my autistic son. It sounds frivlous, I know, but it would mean the world to him.

2beans – at 14:12

Started to suggest this last week but I figured I’d be laughed outta the place. Good for you! The only thing is, the freight may kill us unless this is organized thru a national chain. I sure as heck don’t want to apy freight across the country for something I could buy locally.

anonymous – at 14:44

LOL, today I am home with a head cold and really needed that laugh but tomorrow I will post where I bought my setup. What I have is one solar panel on the roof. It cost about $5–600 It is connected to this other clever contraption I bought for ~$300 thats esentially a huge deep cycle battery with an inverter attached to it that will run 110V for quite some time actually. It even has wheels and a dolly like design so you can move it around with ease. I forget all the specks but I was amazed at how much power it could hold. Foe example it will run a microwave for 20 mins and that is an enourmous power drain. My plan for this device is to plug in my regular battery charger to do small batteries and anything else I would need to run. I have put up the links before but it was almost a year ago at this point. I will repost them here tomorrow. As far as shipping, the panel was pretty cheap I think something like 30 bucks and it showed up in 2 days. The battery weighs a lot and I think it was close to 50 dollars shipping. But I bought them from diff companies and after I put the order in realized they could have both come from the panel company. I think it was called evergreen solar but which panel it was Ill have to check.

Annoyed Max—Not mad yet – at 14:47

Grr, where are the cookies when you need them.

EOD – at 14:53

Count me in on something here.

Are we there yet – at 15:44

Me too. Thanks Max. Your setup sounds pretty good.

Strider – at 17:15

I think there are two ways that we may want to look at this. We all have different power needs, (and wants), but since many of us are unfamiliar with the design of these systems, I think we may want to do a few systems up on (electronic) paper.

I plan on powering a CPap breather for my DW, and charging about 8 each AA batteries a day. That’s the minimum load I need. On the LIKE list would be enough 12 v reserve to power a electric fence and a few 12 v spotlights (converted headlights from cars without gas) for when I hear someone yell at night when they hit the electric fence. I’d like to spend (can’t spend) more than $500.

BTW, anyone know how to jump the output of an electric fence charger to get a bigger yelp from tresspassers?

Bird Guano – at 17:15

So have you decided on a standardized configuration, or perhaps multiples.

Here’s what I have BTW for a super-simple setup in my comm shack:

100Watt solar panel, wired for 12vdc

Solar10 charge controller

I have Trojan deep cycle batteries with self-watering caps, but you could also substitute some cheaper Absorbed Glass Mat batteries for indoor use without gas problems.

Pretty basic system for <$500 that would power some 12 volt CF or LED lights and some entertainment appliances and 2-way radio communications.

Not going to power your microwave or fridge with this basic setup however.

bgw in MT – at 22:17

This sounds like a great idea. I’d like to get a set each for each of my two daughter’s households. They would make great Xmas presents.

bgw in MT – at 22:22

That had an extra “each” in there.

mojo – at 22:52

I like the idea too but I think it would be cheaper to buy the battery locally as it is heavy and easily found. I am in for a panel and controller and maybe an inverter if it would be needed for a basic set up.

amak – at 23:40

I like this idea - if I could actually figure this configuration stuff, I’d be in too!

Anon_451 – at 23:52

If we could get some smart guys or gals here to set up a basic system and get it priced out, I would be interested as well.

I’m-workin’-on-it – at 23:57

Y’all, I’m not in a good mood right now & I don’t feel well either so I’m sorry if I come across as crabby but that’s what I am right now, but wanted to ask if someone would consider changing the name of this thread since it’s NOT about a group buy, it’s more about wishing there was one! It’s very misleading to imply that there is a group buy when all you are doing now is fishing for interest.

And I personally think it’s a little unfair to misrepresent it this way in light of the fact that Fully Prepped went to so much trouble on her own time to truly work on an actual group buy with MREdepot and actually was successful at setting one up for us & used the threads accordingly to get the attention and interest when she truly had something to offer.

I know you probably didn’t really think about it, but the same thing happened with batteries just the other day but there’s no group buy for batteries….just a list of great links to discounts for batteries.

I just hate thinking FullyPrepped worked so hard to set up a legit group buy and now copycat threads are cropping up that mislead and don’t pan out.

I’m sorry, I know I’m crabby, but it just is aggrevating to open a thread expecting one thing & finding a fizzle. Does that make sense or am I the only one that cares? I’m going to bed now…..maybe I’ll feel nicer tomorrow.

21 November 2006

MO Molly – at 00:32

How is it misleading? The first post pretty well explains what is going on.

I’m-workin’-on-it – at 01:10

I didn’t make myself clear…the TITLE is misleading implying that there actually IS a group buy — just like the butter & cheese thread, but there’s not a group buy on solar equipment. There’s only the hope that someone might put together a group buy for some.

A thread titled “how much interest is there in purchasing solar equipment together” would accurately describe the thread, not “group buy”. The first post does not reflect the title, it explains why the thread is about something totally different than the title implies.

Strider – at 01:34

I’m workin on it -

Sorry to have misled you with the title. MRE’s are pretty much MRE’s. They are similar across the board. We all know what’s in the box. So it’s easy to chose a company and arrange a pre-deal ahead of time. Solar panels and accessories a just a might bit more complicated than Spam in a Can. I (nor anyone else) can work up a pre-deal until we have at least a rough idea what the group wants. We don’t know what goes into a can in the MRE (probably don’t WANT to know), but for many hundreds of dollars I at least would want to know what’s in the “kit.” Panels come in mono-crystal, poly crystal, rollup, framed or unframed, glass or acrylic front, different sizes, different outputs, some work better than others in less-than-optimal lighting conditions. Some hold up in a wind, others shatter in a hailstorm. Before a group by can be arranged (or even which companies to contact to START the talks we need to decide what we are looking for. Panels are not simple cans of food.

Since you expected to open the thread and order right away, what is your suggestion of a well-thought out system that you would buy instantly?

BTW, hope you feel better tomorrow, and please, get out of the other side of the bed!

Surfer – at 02:57

I’ve posted this before - probably on another thread. But it, like everything else, seems to be ignored.

Visit backwoodssolar.com. They will design a system to suit your particular needs. They know what they are talking about.

I have two arrays on a hillside. Each array has 9 panels. Not quite hooked up yet. Will do it after Thanksgiving.

Some of the benefits, besides providing a source of power when the grid goes down, is a federal tax credit (yes, I said credit - not deduction), state tax credits (depending on your state), and the ability to sell back to the utility company any excess power generated by the panels. So, on the long summer days in the Northern U.S., when sunshine is abundant, my system will generate more power than I can use. I will “sell” the power back to the utility company. They are obligated by law to by it back - at a very good price, I might add. My electric meter will spin backwards. Oh, and by the way, I have a mini hydro system (almost installed), and a diesel generator (in use for seven years)that powers a bank of 32 deep cycle lead acid batteries (Trojan and Surette). It’s a 48 volt setup. The hydro and solar will also power those batteries. So essentially, I have four sources of available power: grid, solar, hydro, and diesel generator. Now, of course, there is a chance that I may go down when BF hits out here in the sparsly populated countryside. But if I do, I’m going down swinging.

Urdar-Norway – at 07:42

this seems to be a package product with the atached accessories suited for prepping needs. Hook up with a importer, and get a low price.. china is solar industry boooming!

http://roysolar.en.alibaba.com/offerdetail/52308602/Sell_Solar_Lighting_Kit.html

HillBilly Bill – at 07:55

I made a substantial investment in some solar panels from Northern Tool, some deep-cycle batteries from Walmart, an inverter from Aims, and all the trappings that are needed to make it work. First let me say that MANY people are way too optomistic about the amount of power a solar setup will capture and store. Don’t think about your meter running backwards unless you are going to make a sizeable investment. Secondly, everybody’s energy needs are different and a solar setup based on one’s needs and budget is going to be as individual as a pair of shoes. Yours won’t fit me and mine aren’t right for you. Finally, this topic has been discussed in great detail in previous threads. Eccles has spent countless hours answering questions, specing out individual systems, and recommending alternatives to past posters. Read what is already there.

KimTat 09:41

Hey Surfer, I don’t always respond but I so make a point of reading your words and have learned alot.

HillBilly Bill – at 07:55 I followed those threads and learned alot too. I bought solor panels at harbor frieght tools, an inverter at northern and deep cycle marine batteries at walmart and extra cables at car stores.

My set-up will allow a few small items and my laptop if the internet is still “on” or I want to write if the sun is shining. If we have intermitted power from those little outlets in the wall, i have a battery charger to charge my storage batteries. I also have lots of paper and pencils,lanterns…its a back up for a back up for a back up.

But if I can figure it out and I have a life time fear of anything electric just about anyone can.

Strider – at 12:12

KimT - how did the Harbor Freight panels work out? I’ve bought many things from them in the past, but recently have had a problem with some of their electrical (cordless) tools. I think they usually have the lowest price around.

Annoyed Max- Not mad yet – at 12:50

Ok finally made it into work today. I was right I did use evergreen solar here is the link to the panel I bought. http://tinyurl.com/t8y6s and here is the link to the battery pack http://tinyurl.com/v7mmm. The panel comes with these funny connectors on it but I just cut them off and wired in some alligator clips and put them right on the posts of the battery bank. I like the battery pack because it also has a smart charger built in and a visual LED system to show how much power is left. As far as why did I pick this combination, I found someone else, might have even been on here that was an electrical engineer and thats what he had. Since this is way out of my area of expertise I just went with it and it seems to work.

KimTat 12:55

Strider – at 12:12 the panels have so far worked out good, easy to set up just outside my southern bay windows. not perfect, wish I had more money to get a more powerful set-up but having a lamp that lights up the dark is a good thing.

EOD – at 14:21

Not sure how this “group buy” thingie will work. As an alternative I do like the idea of taking advantage of the knowledge and research of those here who do indeed know what they are talking about concerning solar systems. Perhaps a listing of complete systems and recommendations on which mfg’s for which components based upon price points? Start with a low end system at say $500, then another at $750, $1,000, $1500, $2,000 and higher? For example; right now I have about $750 I could spend on a ‘starter’ system [battery(s) included]. But I would also like to invest in a systtem that is expandable; adding extra solar panels, another batter or two, perhaps with a total investment over two years of $2,500 to $3,000?

Does that make sense? Or is it more complicated than that?

Surfer – at 14:59

Hillbilly Bill

You are correct. Indeed it was a sizeable investment. But well worth it, IMO. The solar system will pump out 2600 watts continuously during peak hours in late spring / all summer / and early fall (say 9–5) at my latitude. Less in winter, natch, ‘cause of much shorter daylight. To keep it simple, I did not install a solar tracking device.

The mini-hydro, working at peak capacity in season (winter/spring) due to the high flow volume of the stream, will pump out 250 watts 24/7. That’s alot of juice - ‘specially when I’m not using power 24/7 - except for the fridge, freezers, and phantom loads. Yep, during waking hours, I may have a few light bulbs, a T.V., radio, and computers operating, but between the two (hydro and solar), I’m covered year ‘round - easy.

But, this is my country home. I’m not here all of the time. Each time I leave, I shut everything off electrically via circuit breakers and/or power strips. Propane water heater dialed to the “vacation” setting.

Combined, these inputs and travel activities will spin my electric meter backwards very quickly. Something else to consider: First, I use a wood stove to heat the house in winter (when I’m here - and I will be when BF strikes), suplemented by a 1,000 gal propane tank when I am too lazy to stoke the fire. Minimal lectricity use there. Oh, and my 1,000 gallon diesel fuel tank that provides a source of fuel for my tractor, generator, and pickup trucks. Also, no air refrigeration units. The basement (where I have my wood stove that heats the entire house in the winter) is also quite cool and comfortable in the summer (65 degrees). If it gets too hot upstairs (with my 2 ceiling fan “air conditioning units” working full time), I retreat to the dungeon. This is a fully functional basement that has a great room (big screen T.V., surround sound, ham, c.b., a.m. /f.m., etc.), guest bedroom, bathroom, and a very large and fully stocked pantry. Plus a laundry room and the utility room, in which the furnace, water heaters, and inverters and batteries are located.

My recommendation: If you have the bucks, act fast. If you don’t have the bucks, act fast. Do what you can - and do it now.

Annoyed Max- Not mad yet – at 15:05

Bill can I stay at your place? :) What if I bring the red wine….

Annoyed Max- Not mad yet – at 15:07

DOH or surfers place sounds good to. Too many cold meds today.

SCW AZ – at 15:22

EOD – at 14:21

I love the idea of someone with electrical smarts putting together a “parts list” / “package” (batteries seperate - get at Wallymart) in $1000 incrmements. . .

Strider – at 17:16

EOD – at 14:21 - This is exactly what I was talking about earlier. Once we have a standard design, then we can approach various sources to see if a multi buy/multi-location shipping deal is possible.

janetn – at 20:13

Im interested. Ive heard that a company has started to manufacture them somewhere in my neck of the woods. I would be glad to try and find the place and see if they would give us a “wholesale” price. But someone with much more knowledge than me would have to spell out exactly what we are looking to buy cause on a good day I can barely understand what you guys are talking about.

SCW AZ – at 20:29

Something along the lines of what (anonymous – at 14:44) Annoyed Max—Not mad yet – at 14:47 has. . .

Small dolly to move it around. . . run a microwave for a few minutes. . . 2 or 3 options with different price points. . .

22 November 2006

Annoyed Max- Not mad yet – at 09:41

I was in harbor freight the other day and they had fairly cheap inverters. You could always strap an inverter to a battery and tie the whole thing on a dolly a whole lot cheaper than the contraption I bought. The true expense is the solar panel. To get one of the size that everyone has in mind runs 500 and up. Try ebay once you know the watts and volts etc there are some decent deals on there. Evan some of the broken panels people sell are still in excellent shape. Most are designed so that they will work as long as some part of the panel is still intact. As the people what the power output is on the damaged ones. If your budget is tight its worth a shot.

Are we there yet – at 10:11

Annoyed Max- Not mad yet – at 12:50

I actually found the battery pack even cheaper via Amazon.com, here:

http://tinyurl.com/y3zyju

Thanks for the suggestion. : )

MySun?02 January 2007, 16:34

Hi all, what do you think about this ?? I’m interested to install 2 panels for garden’s lights.

http://www.solartrack.it

Thks for your suggention.

NotAGuru?02 January 2007, 17:37

A couple of years ago I bought a kit from a company called ICP Solar. The kit was composed of two 75 watt solar panels a charge controller and cables. Everything was pretty much plug and play. The instructions did NOT assume that you are a photovoltaic Guru.

At the time I just did this as sort of a hobby/project but occationally I power our refrigerator from the two 12 volt AGM batteries I purchased separately and connected to it. Naturally you’ll need the appropriate 12 volt inverter but they’re easy to come by at any auto supply, sears or Costco. Works fine.

Their technical support was pretty good too. Their site is icpglobal.com

Hope that helps.

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