I searched through the threads (in particular power, light, and heat) but could not find a thread devoted to actually to heat. With fall/winter approaching, I thought this would be a good thing to chat about, esp. for those of us on natural gas/electric. If the utilities go, what should our backups be?
I need all the suggestions I can get!
Thanks. : )
From another thread: With regard to backup heat, I originally went with propane heaters (Boston, MA) but now think that kerosene would be better (now have both). The propane heaters were the Coleman BlackCat and SportCat. I have the little one pound propane bottles as well as hose adapters to connect the heaters to the larger 20 pound BBQ grill tanks. Check your local fire department’s website about propane storage, Boston allows you to store 47 or 48 pounds (IIRC) of propane without a permit (basically 2 grill tanks and a few 1 pound bottles).
For a kerosene heater, I went with a Corona 23-DK (about 22,300 BTU). This site has GREAT information on kerosene heaters, for anything else bring along some salt. http://tinyurl.com/jyj26
I would think that people wood want to go with whichever backup heating option is most economical in their area. If someone already had a wood/pellet/coal stove in place, just invest in whichever fuel it uses. I am thinking about purchasing another kerosene heater, to be used while the primary one is being refilled (outside). I’ve found many of these units on craigslist.com for really short money.
I have 2 kerosene heaters and some south-facing windows. Someone described trombe walls to gather heat, but that would get in the way of my plastic tubs which I hope will be full of growing vegetables. A tent to sleep in, a candle lantern, and lots of blankets.
A lack of heat in the winter would lead to our having to drain the radiators, then even if the power came back on, we’d have only electric heaters until repairmen started working again. It’s a dismal prospect. The plumbing would also have to be drained if the temperature got to 32 indoors. I guess we should get some more thermometers, to keep monitoring the rooms we weren’t using. I don’t know if radiators could be drained selectively or if the whole system has to go. Glad you brought this up. I’m chilly when it’s 64 in the house. :(
As students years ago we visited some students in Denmark who drank a lot of hot tea in cold weather, lapsang souchong with its smoky taste, to keep warm. Maybe that tea was chosen to suggest a wood fire?
If I can scrounge the money together, I’m thinking of getting a wood stove, even if I can’t get wood this year. I’ve got propane and a small heater (a ProCat), so we won’t freeze to death this winter, but I don’t know if we’ll see bottled propane available between waves. I’ve grown more concerned about how what will be available between waves or when it’s all over.
Inky-
get the stove. You can burn all kinds of things in a wood stove. You can get newspapers and roll them into logs; used newspaper is free for the taking in many places. You can burn cornstalks and bundled vegetation of all kinds, if you have a stove.
I live in a condo association/townhouse. I don’t know if I’d be allowed to install a wood stove. I’d love to do it, but also wonder if my DW would go along with it. It doesn’t really match our decor.
Silly I know when it means the diff between life and death, but if a pandemic doesn’t happen soon and I get stuck with a wood stove the wife doesn’t like, uggh!
How much do they cost anyway? What is installation like?
if you have a chimney, ore thinking of getting one, this wood oven is all you will need, also for kooking. It keeps all the cottages warm here in Norway. And can be bought in the US. Its a old and reliable design, now also with cleaner and more effecient burning. (less local smog, and more energy from the wood) If you buy or make a pellets “cage” you may also use pellets. For those who have little space to store the wood for a whole season you may go for brickets, whitch is more energi in lesser volume, but its much more expenisive, and also contributes to global warming since the parafin used in the “wood “ is from fosil fuel just as oil, gas or coal.
http://www.jotul.us/content/products/ProductArticle____3105.aspx
sorry. this is the clean burning modell:
http://www.jotul.us/content/products/ProductArticle____3122.aspx
ooof! you in the US miss all the realy good design on Norwegian wood stoves.. When i compare the US produkt range with the european… wow, we truly are functionalists.. :-D
http://www.jotul.no/content/products/ProductType____122.aspx
InKy
Watch the classifieds: my dad was trying to sell his (rather nice) Kodiak insert wood stove this spring for $200, but couldn’t find a buyer. So he’s giving it to my sister-in-law. Moral of the story: people out there sell them and put in propane fireplaces instead, so check the paper.
Thanks all. Amt - I rue my decision 3 years ago to go with unvented natural gas logs when my house was built. I’ll be on the lookout. I like the name of the Norwegian stove - the Black Bear. Solid. Honest. Likely to keep warm in winter. I’ve been looking at names like “Encore” or “Defiant.” Now what are those supposed to mean?
anonymous – at 18:40 It doesn’t really match our decor….How much do they cost anyway? What is installation like?
No one can really answer this question for you because there are so many variables in determining installation costs and what you can install based on your clearances to combustibles. We just went through this. All the traditional looking stoves we wanted would have meant screwing sheet metal onto our beautiful mantle. No way, Jose. We went with a low-profile insert. Not a look I love (too contemporary for my taste) but very, very functional, and I’ve come to appreciate the look. And as for performance, I love the insert. Your first step should be to determine if you could even install one. Then go visit stores. Lots of variability in pricing on the unit itself and the installation costs. You can find used stoves for a fraction of new cost, depending on where you live.
InKy – at 19:27 I’ve been looking at names like “Encore” or “Defiant.”
Reliable, tried-and-true stoves from Vermont Castings. Pretty to look at, lots of little features, big price tag, but both throw lots of heat. Defiant? Defies bitter cold Vermont temps by keeping your house warm? ;) Encore? Who knows!
I think the Encore is smaller, maybe, just for a room, so it’s just supplemental. (I think that’s right, but would have to check.)
I want an efficient, clean-burning stove without an unnecessarily steep price, so recommendations are assuredly welcome. I have a fake-o unvented fireplace (was cutting corners to afford laminate floors), so there’s not even a real chimney.
Help! I’m trying to figure out how to provide emergency heat for our home. We have long, cold winters here in the midwest, so a tent in the house just isn’t good enough, especially with two young children. I looked at both kerosene and propane heaters. My problem is that I have no place to store fuel. I could store a little fuel in the garage, but I don’t know if extreme cold is ok.
So then I thought maybe we could install a wood burning stove. Our house is so tall that I was told it would cost several thousand dollars to run a chimney from the first floor past the roof line. So I started to consider a gas stove, which we could easily install (direct vent) on our 3-season porch, but it wouldn’t be able to heat the whole house. We’ve already got natural gas there that runs to our natural gas grill on the deck and we installed a “T” at the time for this purpose. My concern is that we could lose natural gas during a pandemic. How likely do you think it is that we won’t have natural gas?
My house was built arund 1900 and then added on to several times, so we just don’t have any real good options.
When I was a kid, we had a big propane tank outside the kitchen. It was 4 or 5′ tall. A truck would come periodically and swap out tanks. (I don’t know if they are available everywhere, or even illegal anywhere.) Kerosene heaters are handy. Kerosene is portable, too, for restocking from various sources. And you can cook with it.
I’ve successfully heated small to medium sized cabins in Alaska with kerosene. Rigging one is fairly easy too. Put a 55 gal drum on it’s side elevated on wood stilts/frame. Run copper (bendable tubing) to the stove location. Flange and hook up to heater. Store other 55 gal drums as close to the mounted drum as is feasible. Purchase a fuel hand pump (reasonably priced) to change your kerosine over to the mounted drum as needed.
Problem is that we live in town in a highly visible location and our neighbors’ homes are close to ours. We really don’t have room for a propane or kerosene tank, and I think there might be a fire code problem with storing huge amounts of flamable liquids here.
Maybe we need to move…
I keep buying 2 1/2 gal. plastic jugs of kerosene when I go to Meynard’s, 2 at a time. I’ve been storing them in the garage. (Probably it’s time to buy a lot more.) I never thought of cold hurting it. We’ve had the heaters for a few years and use one when the power goes out in winter, and sometimes when it’s really cold (but then the thermostat adjusts and it’s very! cold on the second floor).
tjclaw1- We looked at wood stoves yesterday. They make stove pipe kits for through-the-wall installation (about $200). Would that work in your home?
Tractor Supply has 5-gal containers of K-1 kerosense for $30. $6/gallon - Yikes!!!
Jane, Maybe that’s what I’ll have to do. I saw those jugs at Menard’s on Saturday and they were almost $15 a piece. I almost choked on my gum! It appears that it would take 3 gal per heater per day, so I would need 36 2–1/2 gal jugs for 30 days, at a cost of $540. Have you priced kerosene at the gas station?
I thought wood stoves had to vented above the well above a roof line to allow for draft?? Is that outdated information?
I’m sort of in tjclaw1′s position, but we will put in corn burner if it gets that bad (lack of electricaly + lack of LP deliveries) and isolate a few rooms of the house (plastic sheets/blankets over stairs, plastic hung over doorways, etc) to keep the heat on the main floor where we have kitchen, living space, 1/2 bath and an office that can become a sleeping area.
20 below with a 30 mph hour NW wind gets our kitchen down to in the low 50′s WITH the furnace running! I’m not looking forward to that situation with a corn burner in the adjacent room as the only heat source!
Dang.. too many interupptions today… should have read…
I though wood stoves had to be vented well above a roof line to allow for draft?
I had acquired one of those very inexpensive propane cooker/heaters but then realized this wouldn’t help much in our small living space, so I just scored a portable Buddy (indoor) Heater new off ebay for a great price and am now in pursuit of 20lb propane tanks w/attachment.
Problem is, I don’t really understand the difference in types of fuel, how to store different fuels, under what conditions they would be safe being stored/handled, and exactly just how flammable each form is. How long do different types of fuel stay useful when stored? Could I put em down in a basement and expect em to be just fine until they were needed?
I’d been planning on doing a search online for this type of information or to ask someone i know who might know, tho if anyone here cares to summarize it’d certainly save me a alot of time.
thanks in advance,
(and yes, we have carbon monoxide detectors.)
We put in a wood stove last fall, when I first became very concerned about H5N1. We had no way to heat our home if the power grid were to go down. We bought a relatively small Jotul stove (logs have to be 16″ long or less to fit). We spent about the same for installation as for the stove itself - the chimney here was quite large and they had to put in a liner to install the stove - and our homeowner’s insurance agent had to approve what was done, as well.
As far as I’m concerned, it was well worth it, regardless of whether we have a pandemic. Last winter, when those around us were paying several hundred dollars a month for heat, we paid a total of $90 for the wood we used to heat the house last winter - that was a pick up and a half of wood. We still have a half left over, and more on order.
It’s a very safe, secure feeling to know you can stay warm even if the rest of the world goes dark around you. DH was against the idea last fall, but by spring he was glad I’d insisted on the stove.
I would think that during a time like a pandemic one would need to be even more careful than usual about flammable things, and fires and such in houses. There will be no fire department to come to the rescue in the event of fire, I believe, so I think stoves should be professionally installed and that nobody should be jury-rigging anything to get it to work on the cheap. If you can’t, or won’t, do it right, then think of something else to do that you are willing to do the correct way.
OKbirdwatcher – at 15:42 Nope, according to the stove guy, you after taking the vent through the wall, you have to run a stainless stack up the side of your house past the roof line or the smoke comes back down (back draft?) I think he said it was $30 per foot, plus brackets, etc., it would cost much more than the stove - several thousand dollars. Plus it has to be kept clean.
There is kerosene, and K-1 kerosene. A commercial site says that K-1 has less sulphur content (which is smelly and may cause headaches?? I’m guessing here) according to the vendor. Then there’s Klean Heat which is less smelly than K-1. But costs maybe $8/gallon? Haven’t seen any this year yet, though. We’ve decided we’ll move the heater to the hallway, beyond our plastic sheeting, in order to turn it off. That’s when it smells; it’s fine as it burns.
eduk8or – at 15:55 - yep, it gets mighty cold here in the mid-west. I think you have the same problem with corn burners. I know last year you couldn’t get a corn burner as they were sold out. I’ve researched that idea, and you have to have a LOT of storage space for corn. I think it was 2 tons to heat a house for the winter - that a LOT of corn. Too much of a headache for me.
Posie – at 15:58 Don’t even think about storing propane tanks in your home. They are like bombs. They have to be stored in a building that is not attached to your home. I wouldn’t even store kerosene in my home.
Clawdia – at 15:58 I was also considering Jotul. They’re beautiful cast iron stoves. The guy at the fireplace store was trying to sell me on a Quadrafire gas stove.http://tinyurl.com/getd7
Eduk8tor at 15:55- corn stoves run only with electricity and if you have electricity you don’t need the stove. If you run out of corn you can’t burn much else. With a wood stove you have several options. I hear the aroma from a corn stove is wonderful however. I was wanting a soapstone stove but don’t have the money now, so I’m thinking of a small Jotul and putting peices of soapstone/granite on it to heat those up and then take the stones to bed to warm that up. Good luck.
In my township the stack height is not determined by roof line height. The end of the stack must be at two feet pass where it goes thru (or passes if completely outside) the roof or measure horizontally from end of stack to a distance of at least ten feet to an intersecting point on the roof. Picture a triangle 2ft or more high and 10 feet horizontal with the longer side of the triangle the roof slope. Thus my stack does not protrude higher than the roof. It’s been like that for 8 years and no problems.
If this is used in your local building codes you can locate the wood stove on the side of the house where the rain gutter is. Thus the shortest possible stack. A short stack creates an faster draft since you are heating less chimney.
I have a Vermont castings model. It’s the Dutchwest Catalytic Wood Stove. (can’t do a tinyurl at work). The catalysis heats to about 1700 F.
I absolutely love it. Think of it as an investment in your home, just like new windows. With the high natural gas prices last year there was a shortage of wood stoves here.
You can cook on it, and it gives some light too. And if it came down to it, you could burn your furniture, floor boards, etc.
I load it up with locust for the night and it’s still going when I get up.
And yes check your newspapers. The first one I got was free, but extremely ugly and hard to regulate.
Jane - at 18:20: Your mention of draining radiators and pipes during freezing indoor conditions is a good one for people to remember. I know of no one who has experienced a house fire from using indoor alternative heat sources. However, I do personally know of two individuals who burned down their homes - they were each using a blowtorch to unfreeze frozen water pipes. Not a good idea.
tjclaw1,
what are the conditions that might cause a bomb-like problem with one of these propane/kerosene tanks?
i’m assuming they cannot be stored inside due to vapors? do they need to be stored away from a residence? i don’t have a separate building within which to store these things. i have a porch.?
JWB, good points. I’ll have to do some measuring now.
Udar,
I have a Jotul, and the damn thing puts out so much heat, I usually have to open some windows. And that’s in January with temps below zero F.
I highly recommend a PROPERLY installed Jotul.
nawty
A word about Kerosene Heaters (been there done that)….\\First DON’T buy a used one. Too many things Can and Will go wrong. They usually run about 100–130 for a new one, it’s worth the extra. I cannopt stress this enough. \\Get yourself a few extra wicks when you buy it also…they will wear out after a couple of seasons according to use…If it smells bad (after about 10 minutes)than it’s Not burning right….Turn it off and try again, adjust the wick, look at the picture on the heater, see the recommended place for the flame. …\\Don’t try to move it while it’s lit…yes I know it sounds crazy but people can be really stupid at times. FILL it OUTSIDE…after just once of trying to mop the kerosene up you’ll never do it again….\\ Use a siphone to fill the tank..don’t even try to pour it in…\\Don’t keep turning it up to make more heat…adjust the flame so it looks like the picture on the tank..it might give you a bit more heat but it will also smell and you’ll use twice as much fuel…\\Storage..buy the Red Gas Cans..it’s OK to get them and the fuel cold..not going to hurt it… Buy the Kerosene at the Gas stations, that’s what it’s there for, always use K1 (NO NEED to buy those expensive little bottles, you’ll go broke, use that money on Preps)….\\ If you really hate the smell they do have additives you can get that smell like Pine and other neutal things, they work pretty good. Just pour a little into the tank after it’s filled…..\\DON’T Overfill, watch that gauge….messy and dangerous…..\\TURN IT OFF do Not let it run out of Fuel (You’ll hear a noise inside of the unit like someone slamming into it, that’s the wick unit dropping into the fuel it’s not broke) , you thought it smelled bad when you started it? Wait till it runs out and see how it smells. ….\\Aprox once every 10–15 fill ups Let it Burn it self out (I know I just said it will smell, open a window), This will burn the buildup off the wick allowing it to self clean and last longer, makes a big difference. \\ Before you need it…. Practice with it Outside, you’ll be glad you did.\\ Be prepared for the automatic lighter to crap out, they always do. Get a Bar B Q lighter…the long ones, lift the center portion just a bit it will have a spring handle..just like it does when you press the “light” button, turn up the wick till you can see it and light then drop the piece back in place…\\I’ve found the Round Heaters give more heat then the square shaped ones. Even if they show the same amount of BTU’s. \\ Don’t try to replace the wick inside (it should last at least a whole season, follow the directions), work outside on a clean surface you’ll be glad you did.
ONLY use Kerosene (K1) NEVER gas or any other flamable liquid, your taking your life in your hands if you do. \\ You’ll find they give off a lot of heat and will keep a small house 1000 ft warm in 30 degree weather, you may need a couple of you are heating a large area.
Fill tank before you go to bed and it should last all night, at least 8–10 hours or so\\ Keep a pot or pan of water on top of it to add moisture to the air, it tends to dry out with this kind of heat.\\ Teach the kids from moment one..DON’T TOUCH!
So much for my attempt at formating.
Excellent advice A former lurker!
Clawdia@ 15:58 Would you mind sharing the total cost of installion and stove? Where did you put the stove? Did you go thru a dealer?
Groan. A high efficiency, clean-burning wood stove with a two-story flu is entirely beyond my means. Even if I could get a used stove on the cheap, the flue, properly installed, will be a fortune in single-parent schoolteacher dollars. Let’s see, too late to marry for money. Lottery ticket is a bit iffy. Back to drawing board, sleeping bag, down coat, and Coleman ProCat. The alternative might be heating just one second story room with a smaller wood stove and a shorter flue. I have no confidence that propane will be available or affordable for long once a pandemic begins.
Posie - As for the propane I’ve got, I put it in a big, dry, lockable storage bench in a fenced area at some distance from my house. Hope that’s good enough. I don’t have an outbuilding, either.
A former Lurker, why not get blue kerosene cans? Won’t it get confusing to use gas cans?
Does the wick get black hard buildup after a while? I read in the instructions for kerosene lanterns that black stuff can be crunched off with a pair of pliers, then the wick will work fine again. (It was in the Dietz lantern/WTKirkland site)
I had two kerosene heaters. I cannot stress enough that you BETTER HAVE CO2 DETECTORS! I had a near miss with them. Very scary. In fact you better have CO2 detectors regardless if you use any kind of hydrocarbon based fuel. That $30 gadget may save your life. I fully expect to hear numerous stories later about CO2 deaths if things get even a little dicey.
I agree with the procedures that A former Lurker – at 17:45 above has stated also.
Also kids need to be impressed upon the dangers of any heat source. Treat the heater, (any), like you would a fireplace. Lay down the rules. Buy a inexpensive fireplace screen at Wallyworld, and use it. It creates a physical “Do Not Enter” area.
Jane – at 18:03
Where I live its against the law to use red canisters for kerosene. Didn’t catch that, sorry. The black stuff is carbon buildup. You’ll know when to take care of that because it begins to stink. Follow the instruction manual. I would let it burn out of fuel. Then it gets dried out and easier to crunch.
I live in a large city (downtown) in Maine.We have a large old house with chimneys in bad shape. After alot of mulling over different options, finally decided on two Mr. Buddy propane heaters for emergency heating. They use the 20lb barbecue tanks and we can store a certain reasonable number of them. From my research online, the freezing temperature for propane is -42 celsius, which also is −42 Fahrenheit. They are functional under freezing conditions, unlike kerosene. Our next step is purchasing a gas stove, since we have natural gas already. We will direct vent it to the outside to avoid the chimney issue. There is also the option of an unvented gas stove, but I have heard varying opinions that they cause headaches,etc. They cannot be used in airtight houses and also produce alot of moisture.I worry about natural gas becoming unavailable, but I feel it would outlast electricity by at least a few weeks. Does anyone else think that or think instead that gas and electricity will go down at similar times?
should you experience weather below −40º F and your propane tank freezes up (actually the LP stays a liquid), slap a wet cloth against the tank. It will instantly freeze to the tank but will also cause the gas to flow. :-)
Inky, I’d recommend moving south
Thanks, Moeb. Although if it gets to 40 below, I give up. I have not heard before that barbecue size (20lbs) propane tank should be stored away from a house. We plan on storing them in an attached garage since we have no other place. How dangerous is this?
I have to correct myself. Carbon MONOXIDE detectors. not Carbon Dioxide.
I would never recommend it to anyone not familiar with the process, but it is common for orchardists in Utah to run propane heaters in their orchards in the springtime to prevent frost damage (and/or to run the wind machines). If it gets really cold, they have “belly heaters” under the 400 gallon propane tanks that burn a small amount of fuel to heat the tank to get enough pressure to run the burners & wind machines. Yeah, they light an open fire under a 400 gallon propane tank…
I’m glad I just process the fruit and don’t have to grow it :)
cherries – at 19:59
Wow! I never knew that, but it does make sense.
bluetide – at 19:08, I’m not sure, but how will gas companies operate without electricity? I was also looking at natural gas stoves, but now hubby says if gas goes out, we’re better off with wood. Plus, if gas prices go high, we can heat with wood. I think we may bite the bullet and go with a wood burning stove.
Posie – at 17:01, I don’t know that propane or kerosene would explode, but if there were a fire in the house, it would be extra fuel to the fire and propane tanks can explode. Everything I have read says not to store them in the house. Anybody else have any advice?
One more tip on Kerosene heaters before I fall into dreamland. Even a new or ‘tuned up’ kerosene heater produces smoke and smell when you first light it,(until it heats up) and especially when you shut it off. You will probably be doing this at 8 hour intervals to refuel it. I use to place my KH near a window and have a 30 inch box fan there. Open the window and turn on the fan for at least 5 seconds (to create a draft)before starting/stopping the heater. In about 30 to 60 seconds later shut the fan off. You will get rid off a great deal of visible smoke and smell this way. This little exercise is worth it.
bluetide. The I,pencil thread summarizes why there will be no natural gas with no electricity.
Moeb - at19:26
But moving is more expensive than wood stoves are ;-). Joke is, I’m not that far north to start with. But it does get cold here sometimes - 0 or a few degrees below.
tjclaw1 – at 22:41
‘’Everything I have read says not to store them in the house. Anybody else have any advice?”
Deception is a great tool. Put the tanks in trash bags with ‘fill’. Make sure the outside of the bag has disgusting stuff on it. Oatmeal is my favorite, (if you can find some dead flies to put in it, great!) Place outside near the trash cans. Bring in on trash day. Repeat.
P.S. This concept works great in everyday situations. Put some oatmeal on your shoulder (flies optional), and people WILL get out of your way! Great for elevators and mass transit. Hope this helps!
JWB. Oatmeal. LMAO.
Reminds me of my foreign travel days when I made sure that the first thing the customs agent saw when opening my suitcase was dirty underwear and rotten socks. They never looked very close at my stuff…
Jumping Jack Flash – at 23:40
I hear ya brother! I do the same when I’m traveling.
tjclaw1 – at 22:41
I’m serious about putting them in trash bags with fill and that people can’t ‘see’ it.
bluetide – at 19:08
Does anyone else think that or think instead that gas and electricity will go down at similar times?
SCW AZ: The problem with natural gas is that if it goes down it will NOT come back up. Gas must be returned to service on a house to house basis to ensure that all pilots lights are lit. Electricity will flicker out and flicker back a minute, hour or week later.
JWB! haha! oatmeal. brilliant!
i’m not counting on trash pick-up actually tho.
: o
thanks all for the info on propane/tanks. keep it comin!
PBQ @ 16.28… corn burners need electricity….. Only for the fan to blow the hot air to the room… radient heat works just fine for them, just like wood stoves…
as far as having enough corn…. we farm and have several tens of thousands of bushels that will not be getting fed to cattle because they will go to market. I would have a beter chance of burning alternative materials such as wood, coal, or even sticks in my corn burner than a person depending on kerosene would have if their original fuel supply runs out.
I know we have a unique situation, just helping other realize there are other options such as pellets and corn that are possibly more easily replaced and aren’t as combustible and dangerous to store as the alternative fuels being mentioned.
More advice…I researched heating last yr, have apartment, no outside storage.
Propane is supposed to be stored outside of the house and away from the house, not in an attached garage. Especially those large tanks that go on gas grills (ie 20lbs). Kerosine also according to my fire departement.
I’d advise you to check with your fire dept. for what they consider to be safe storage and why.
Also, FOrmer Lurker’s advice about being Very Careful about KErosene heaters, and DON”T buy a used one, is Very important. I did bunch of research on those; they really are a major source of fires, particularly in low income communities where heating deficits abound. I remember reports of such fires in the news every winter in our city even tho such heaters are not legal here (for that very reason). Online I read that they need to be meticulously cleaned and maintained in order to be safe…ask yourself if you are or will be up to that in a pandemic situation or will your loved ones be able? You need to leave the window in a closed room open a number of inches to dispell Carbon Monoxide…will someone forget once?
Finallly, check if Kerosene heaters are even legal in your state, they aren’t in some. I did all this research, saw I didnj’t want to take the risk of not maintaining my heater correctly, only to find out they are Illegal here in MA. Companies don’t sell them or ship here.
so because of safe storage issues….if I put propane outside, it will be taken, I share trash cans with others in my house can’t hide propane in a bag..anything I put in our small backyard will be immedieately noticed living in the city. Same with Kerosene.
SO I have tent and candle lantern. Lots of wicking longjohns and fleece and wool hats. Thick cardboard and staple gun and plastic sheeting to block windows from cold.
I have Sterno and “heat in a can” which is safe for indoors and can raise my room 18 degrees (tested last winter). They evaporate so I need to check them this yr.
I read somewhere online a good idea is to heat rocks (not at all damp, those can explode), put in a metal pail (not galvanized)…will heat a room for hours……could put on a heat proof surface such as oven rack on top of bricks. I can have a small fire on my porch, heat rocks, take them inside. I haven’t tried this yet.
Plenty of deadwood and trees around for fire due to where I live near a woods. I also bought alot of charcoal briquetts. (for outside fire only)
Just a thought for apartment dwellers. You might consider moving within the present apartment complex (lease issues) into at least a second floor unit facing south (sun/ northern hemisphere).
I know how easy it is to buy your way onto news/radio programs these days, so the fact that this was “discussed” on Paul Harvey is not exactly a ringing endorsement for me.
That said, I wonder if this is a good product to have in case my central heat fails during a pandemic. You’d obviously need a way to power it, genny, solar, etc.
Anyone have any comments on it?
I actually own one of the EdenPure units — I purchased it for our attic because I practically live up there with my ebay stuff I sell! We had no ventilation in the attic at all (old building design) and it was sweltering in the summer and too cold in the winter. So we finally installed an attic fan which helped in the summer, but that meant that ANY warmth that might have been there for winter was gone.
So I got one, and honestly the thing WORKS! Just like they said. My cats come up to the attic with me and they are not afraid of it at all and I don’t worry about them because it doesn’t get hot.
I’m looking forward to using it again this winter — and NO I’m not associated with the company in any way.
It’s pricey, but in an emergency or if you’re running a business out of your attic…..it’s tops in my book.
And yes, I have a note that I always leave at the attic door to remind me to turn the heater off! :-)
I’m-workin’-on-it – at 13:09
Wow, what a gret testamonial. Thanks a bunch for teh info. Do your cats sleep on it at all the way they claim many pets do?
No, but that’s probably because it’s over to the side of the ‘main area’ and in the main area I have a desk and chair that they sleep on, and they have planks that go from the subfloored area out to the soffits of the roofline where they can hear the birds & the little outdoor fountain, and smell outside smells, etc. I put a blanket in the insulation for them to lie on so that they never touch any insulation to get there or to sleep there.
But honestly they could sleep up on top because it does NOT get hot!
Okay, I cannot install a stove this year and we’ll have to wait till spring to remodel room to put one in. So I’ve decided to get a kerosene heater because it is safer than propane and I can store more fuel. I’m just not sure which one to get. I can probably only store 25 gal of kerosene in my detached garage, which is small. My house is 1,350 sq. ft, and a 23,000 BTU heater would do the job nicely, but would probably use at least 4 gallons/day, so I could only heat for a week if I use it conservatively. A 10,600 BTU would use 2 gallons/day and says it heats 400 sq. ft, so it wouldn’t even completely heat the downstairs, but would stretch my fuel to almost 2 weeks. Both are about the same cost, and I’m leaning toward the smaller one since we get a lot of sun from the south.
We live in town so I don’t have any place but the detached garage to store fuel. I might be able to get up to 12 5/gal containers in my garage if I saw the pandemic coming, but my husband already thinks I’m certifiably nuts and will freak out on me if I put more than 5 containers of fuel in the garage.
Does anybody have any experience with these and/or see any problems with getting the smaller one? We are in NW Illinois where the winters are long and cold, and my main concern is not freezing to death. We have two young children.
Last year we had several fires associated with Kerosene heaters. Three homes burned within 5 miles of my house. We live in a fairly poor area and the spike in propane and heating oil prices increased the use of the kerosene heaters.
Before we installed a furnace we used a propane plaque heater. It had a built in O2 sensor and a thermostat. We used it as a back up to the woodstove. The propane use was minimal. We used ours for 9 years without major problems. The only drawback was that it increased the humidity in the house if we used it constantly. I would think that if you used one of these in one room you could get by with using the 20lb tank[s]. The use rates are in the material provided with the unit. We bought ours for less than $200. FYI make sure the orfice is for propane not natural gas.
Now on to woodstoves. Weve heated with wood for a long time, IMO its the best heat source. If its at all possible in your particular situation get a woodstove! Lots of people bought them last year and now dont want to deal with them, so they are for sale in the bargin corner of the paper. For a new stove Id recomend a Napolian. They are moderatly priced garenteed for life and preform as well as the top of the line stoves. The are close clearance stoves so you can put them right next to the existing wall. I can touch mine when the fire is blazing.
Why couldn’t Buddy Burners ( tuna cans, wax etc ) be made with the wood pellets used in these stoves ? As in ,fill the can up with the pellets, add a wick, fill with wax…. I can get 40 pd bags of pellets for $3.58 or $179 a ton ( like I would EVER need that many !!
( Can they be used as Kitty litter for the cat , I wonder ???) Hmmmm…….
bump
quick and cheap insulation for windows. Bubble wrap!, you will even save a lot of money on a regular day to day basis. http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/Conservation/bubblewrap.htm
And a simple preheather for hotwater, to be placed in the garden. http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/HorzPondDHW/DHWPondProto.pdf
ups, that was me.. its not spam..
Madamspinner, what a brilliant idea! I picked up a 40lb bag of wood pellets to make buddy burners with. If it works, and I don’t know why it wouldn’t, you have saved me hours and hours of making cardboard strips! Thank you!
How many watts does the EdenPure pull?
Thanks!
Luckily heat is not one of my problems we burn wood and we are well stocked with wood
Northstar & Madamspinner: Those pellets would also work really well in a Kelley Kettle. We used our KK on a camping trip a couple of weeks ago and loved it. I’m going to get a couple of bags of pellets just to use with it.
EdenPure (from their website)
Weight 26 lbs.
Dimensions 17 1/4″ (H) x 12 7/8″ (W) x 18 3/4″ (D)
Electric Cord 6′ (14 Gauge) 3 prong grounded cord
Voltage 110v
Total Amps 12.6
Total Watts 1500
Coverage Area up to 1000 square feet
BTU Rating 5000
Urdar-Norge, The bubble wrap idea is great! I’m glad to see you still contributing good ideas for those of us who can’t buy tons of new equipment.
I’m visiting in Oregon, and some here have the pellet stoves. They burn so nice and clean, but cost a pretty penny.
Oh, that was me.
Northstar – at 20:40
I’ll be picking up a bag on Monday. Going to make my Buddy Burners and with the remainder….try it on the cat…see if he takes to the pellets as a substitute kitty litter…..heck, if he goes for it; I just may switch him to it now; as it would be ALOT cheaper then clay litter….and maybe healthier.
(Madamspinner, if you don’t want to use clay for your cat have you seen FelinePine? http://www.naturesearth.com/rebates.html )
As to bubblewrap, I have also seen it in greenhouse catalogs, specially made for insulating glass. (not cheap) I also found my local hardware store carries rolls of Reflectix -and just now looking at company website, I see it doesn’t just come in rolls. Reflectixinc.com
The “pallet cover” looks like you could about sleep in it. Cardboard-box housing goes high-tech!? Guess with duct or aluminum tape you could make something yourself from rolls. Line your tents, maybe. The roll label already suggests to use it under sleeping bags for warmth, camping.
Edna Mode: What on earth is a Kelly Kettle? I am really looking for sources for outdoor cooking!
Northstar - I’ve bought and used both sizes of these (from Ireland) and agree that they’re simple, efficient, quick to boil, and esthetically beautiful(imo).
‘The tradition of using the kettle as a method of boiling water at lunchtime goes back over a hundred years and the design has changed little since it was first introduced. The shores of the lake provided ample fuel for use in the kettle, where washed up twigs, sticks and dried grass were easily available. Visiting anglers are as amazed today as they were some hundred years ago with the speed at which the water could be boiled and through word of mouth, these anglers have spread word about the kettles worldwide.’
Kelly Kettles, that is.
Lehman’s calls it a Storm Kettle.
I looked it up! What a cool idea! But $75? Yikes!
Does anyone know the shelf life of kerosene? thanks.
and another 2 quick questions if anyone can help —
Would a wood-burning fireplace insert give off as much heat as a free-standing one?
And, any advice for using wood burning stoves (or inserts) with small children?
I’d like to start thinking about a wood burning stove, but my husband flat-out refuses to consider one because we have small children. (And no, he doesn’t buy the “utilities will go down”) He would buy the cost savings in heating but we probably can’t get wood all that cheaply.
Just asked my DH about shelf life of kerosene. He said it will last for years, especially if it is sealed from air and the atmosphere so it doesn’t attract moisture. He said that people like the Amish, or those that live in places like Alaska buy it in barrels and use it for cooking. If in doubt, one can add a fuel stabilizer called “Sta-bil” to the kerosene when putting it into storage containers. Sta-bil can also be used for gasoline and diesel fuel.
Average Concerned Mom – at 21:50 A friend of mine just put in a Jotul stove and vented it through her chimney. She said one log nearly roasts her out. I’d love to get one if I had a place to put it. I also have the same concern about our kids (2 & 5). They make gates to protect kids from wood stoves, like this one: http://tinyurl.com/y7hj4w
I need to do some remodeling before I can install a wood stove, hopefully next spring, but I want a Jotul.
What’s the going rate for K-1 Kerosene in your area ?
I just paid $3.69 a gallon….thought that was kinda high ….?
Convert hard wood to charcoal and use the gasses to run a gas generator.
Madamspinner @ 1:55
I think you live in my part of the country (mid-west)? I paid $35 apx. for 5 gal. sealed in a can from Home Depot. Thats a bit over $6 a gal. Someone told me about a gas station around here that sells it so I’m going to go on a trek to check it out.
As a non-heat related issue- don’t know where else to to put this and I don’t post much.
Last night I happpened to catch the tail-end of a BBC show called: Gordon Ramsey, the F word. For those of you who don’t know him, he is a famous chef and has had several tv shows here in the US as well. He was having a avian flu concern going. Apparently he is raising 6 turkeys for the holidays and has his 4 children helping with…sort of a family project. One of the turkeys was limping around so he called in the vet. (told the camera he was concerned about avian flu). Vet told him was it was just a absess in his foot. Gordon asked about bird flu and his kids. Vet said his concern would be wild bird droppings from the sky and to cover the turkeys. Kids could possibly track in droppings from other places and to keep specific boots just for the pen and to wash hands well. This was filmed this year so maybe he’s a prepper!
tjclaw thanks! The gate idea — now that is something I hadn’t thought of.
Is your friend’s Jotul a fireplace insert or just vented through the chimney?
Average Concerned Mom – at 21:50
Would a wood-burning fireplace insert give off as much heat as a free-standing one?
Inserts, as with freestanding woodstoves, are rated to deliver a certain number of BTUs. You can buy them in all sizes to heat spaces from small to large. All an insert is is a stove sans the legs and with a sheet of finished/painted metal blocking the fireplace opening to give a finished look. A woodstove and an insert rated for the same BTUs would be capable of throwing the same heat.
And, any advice for using wood burning stoves (or inserts) with small children?
I have 21+ nieces and nephews and three kids of my own. Most grew up around wood heat. Baby gate-type devices are sold to put around the hearth to keep the kids away from the heat source. I still wouldn’t leave really young kids unsupervised for any length of time in a room with a woodstove. But then again, I wouldn’t leave really young kids unsupervised for any length of time period.
He would buy the cost savings in heating but we probably can’t get wood all that cheaply.
Not sure where you are, but your wood probably isn’t much more expensive than ours. We pay $160/cord green and $200-$250 for dry. This year we installed a Napoleon 1401 (with black door, not gold, which runs a little less and, IMO, looks better). We had to line our chimney, buy the stove, pay for installation, and buy the wood. We did all of this for less than the cost to heat our house with oil this year. Here’s a link to the Napoleon site so you can see what I’m talking about: http://tinyurl.com/v2pac.
We used 1,000 gallons last heating season. To heat by oil would have cost us $2,800–3,000 this season. We are told (and so far, are on track) that we will burn three to four cords to heat this year to heat 1,800+ s.f. If bought green, that costs $480–640. We already have this wood seasoning for next year. The only cost we are going to have next year is a $75 chimney cleaning.
If you decide to do this, shop around. We found that costs for inserts, stoves, and installation varied wildly. We paid $500 for the chimney liner and $400 for installation. Meanwhile, the big name dealer (Vermont Castings, Jotul) three miles down the road was charging $750 for the same liner and “starting” installation at $700 and up depending on the pitch of your roof, the width of your chimney, and the color of your eyes (just kidding about that one!).
crfullmoon – at 18:54 Lehman’s calls it a Storm Kettle.
You know, I love Lehman’s stuff, but their prices are a ripoff IMO. That storm kettle appears to be the same as the Kelly Kettle (although Kelly’s site says they are the only ones who sell the kettles), but it’s $25 more than what we paid. Same thing on Lehman’s American 921 pressure canner. I found it (with one web search) for $90 less than Lehman’s. Anyone looking for a Kelly Kettle can find it on the company’s site, but you can also find them on eBay. My DH ordered directly from the co., which is in Ireland, and we received it in about a week. I view it as money well spent. And you’re right, bird-dog, they are beautiful.
thanks for the numbers, Edna Mode! That gives me a rough idea of what kind of investment we’re looking at!
I gues I thought an insert would throw off less heat because only one side was facing the room — I thought the rest of the heat would go out the back — but then, maybe that’s what the chimney liner would be for?
I will start looking into this! Thanks, again
OK, I have done a little research and I promise I will do more — but in case anyone here knows, maybe you could help me —
does it make a difference to cost/environment/efficacy of the wood stove if you vert it up your chimney — and your chimney is outside of the house, not inside?
(The environmentally-corrct website I’m geting my info from basically says “don’t both using a fireplace or wood stove if you chimney is outside of the house — who knew?)
Average Concerned Mom – at 07:16 My friend vented the Jotul wood stove up her existing chimney - put in a liner, of course. It looks really nice.
Madamspinner – at 01:55 Last I checked, kerosene prices here a week ago near Illinois/Iowa border was $2.89/gal.
‘’‘lohrewok – at 07:15 I paid $35 apx. for 5 gal. sealed in a can from Home Depot. Thats a bit over $6 a gal. Someone told me about a gas station around here that sells it so I’m going to go on a trek to check it out.
tjclaw1 – at 15:42 kerosene prices near Illinois/Iowa border was $2.89/gal.’‘’
I know our local Farm & Home business has 2 1/2 gallon jugs for 15.00; which I wasn’t willing to pay. So I spent 5 bucks on a 5 gallon kerosene jug and filled it at the gas station. I saved a little over dollar a gallon that way. Not much but every little bit helps.
Tomorrow I’m pouring buddy burners with wood pellets instead of the coiled cardboard…will see how that goes. Wood pellets here near KC, MO; are 3.58 for 40 pounds…179.00 a ton.
‘’‘lohrewok – at 07:15 I paid $35 apx. for 5 gal. sealed in a can from Home Depot. Thats a bit over $6 a gal. Someone told me about a gas station around here that sells it so I’m going to go on a trek to check it out.
tjclaw1 – at 15:42 kerosene prices near Illinois/Iowa border was $2.89/gal.’‘’
I know our local Farm & Home business has 2 1/2 gallon jugs for 15.00; which I wasn’t willing to pay. So I spent 5 bucks on a 5 gallon kerosene jug and filled it at the gas station. I saved a little over dollar a gallon that way. Not much but every little bit helps.
Tomorrow I’m pouring buddy burners with wood pellets instead of the coiled cardboard…will see how that goes. Wood pellets here near KC, MO; are 3.58 for 40 pounds…179.00 a ton.
‘’‘lohrewok – at 07:15 I paid $35 apx. for 5 gal. sealed in a can from Home Depot. Thats a bit over $6 a gal. Someone told me about a gas station around here that sells it so I’m going to go on a trek to check it out.
tjclaw1 – at 15:42 kerosene prices near Illinois/Iowa border was $2.89/gal.’‘’
I know our local Farm & Home business has 2 1/2 gallon jugs for 15.00; which I wasn’t willing to pay. So I spent 5 bucks on a 5 gallon kerosene jug and filled it at the gas station. I saved a little over dollar a gallon that way. Not much but every little bit helps.
Tomorrow I’m pouring buddy burners with wood pellets instead of the coiled cardboard…will see how that goes. Wood pellets here near KC, MO; are 3.58 for 40 pounds…179.00 a ton.
oops, sorry……
Thanks you’all for the idea!
After reading here about wood pellets, heat, and possibly kitty litter, I checked with my local feed store and asked if they sold the pellets. I knew that they sold 20 lb bags of 100% pine pellets specifically for kitty litter but figured that the price would be jacked up as it was a ‘pet’ product.
They said that they didn’t sell the fuel pellets. I asked if they sold any other type of wood product in bulk for farm or garden and it turned out that they sold smaller pellets for stall bedding. It looks just like the fuel pellets and kitty litter pellets but half as long, same width. Tonight I made a small wood fire in my woodstove with twigs and paper and then poured a half gal. of the pellets onto it. Burned long and well, ie. hot and slowly. The great thing was that the 40 lb bag was about the same price as Madamspinner gave above and the feed store offered me a ripped bag of it for free. I’ve mixed some in with the kitty litter and the cats have accepted it! So now I have ~ 80 Lbs to use for fuel, the cats, gas spills, etc.
The product is called *Woody Pet* - “There are NO ADDITIVES of any kind in this product, it is 100% Biodegradable Sterile Wood Fiber.” Great website! This is sooo exciting! LOL! Hey, I’m easy… >>> http://www.woodypet.com/about.html
I went to another feed store today which *does* carry the hardwood wood pellets for a pellet stove AND the Woody Pet bedding. The high-end ‘heating’ pellets were a dollar or two less than the ‘bedding’ for a forty pound bag. I’ll experiment over the next few days to see how they’d work as a ‘litter’.
The clerk at the store said that for the pellets to be efficient for heat, they’d need a forced air set-up. I had opened the draft on my woodstove last night and it seemed to be adequate to keep the pellets burning but as far as my Kelly Kettle is concerned, I’m not sure… The clerk also said that he thought that the Woody Pet pellets were mostly pine/soft wood. That’s fine for the cats but not for my chimney. I’m still glad that I’ve found a cheaper and more useful litter/emergency heat source. Now if the actual heating pellets work as well for the cats *and* my stove and k. kettle, I’ll be even happier!
Gotta run-our rediculous show is on.
I’ve been wanting to buy a wood stove for some time now and have been looking in a local advertising paper and saw a fireplace insert advertised (no woodburning stoves) and was wondering, does the fireplace insert have to go inside a fireplace, or can it be freestanding?
P’cola prepper – at 21:32 I think a fireplace insert has to go inside a fireplace.
northerntool.com has kerosene heaters on sale. This one has been highly recommended: http://tinyurl.com/w59fj I have purchased this one, but not tried it yet: http://tinyurl.com/y2jbkr
Found Mr. Heater portable Buddy “indoor safe” propane heaters on sale at Cabelas store in TX for $49 yesterday. They are factory reconditioned in their box. Normal retail is about $75 so I picked one up. Thought it might come in handy in a sick room, etc. I plan on buying the 12 foot hose assembly so I can hook it up to a 20lb propane cylinder. It says one 20# cylinder will provide about 110 hours of heat, vs.3–6 hours on the small 1# cylinders.
Snowhound1 – at 10:36
I bought one of those also from Northern Tool. I was about to get the 12 ft hose assembly, but ordered this instead as I am concerned about having a 20lb tank indoors.
Cool HB…Thanks. We have a Northern Tool not too far from here. DH and I frequently go and walk around in their store on the weekends, so I will see if I can pick one up, next time I am there. :)
Urdar-Norge - Last spring, I have tried the bubble on the uninsulated windows of my bathroom, toilet and one bedroom, I actually put three layers on each side. There was a difference, but not that much. Though it’s still better than nothing. If I can’t have the heating re-started soon, I’ll do it again, but I hope I’ll find a better solution. I was thinking that daylight was not absolutely indispensable in the bathroom and toilet, so I’m thinking that I’d try extruded styrofoam (not sure of the exact English name) on both sides.
As for the pond heater, I might give it a try just for the fun of it. Questions though. My winters here are bad, especially in February when the temperature can go down to minus 15 or 20 Celsius. How would I go about not having the box pond freeze - could I simply make it a mix of 50–50 water and car anti-freeze? And well insulate the pipe coming from it into the house so I don’t loose heat between the box and the house? Also, stagnant water = germs, how do I prevent that? If I put chlorine, can I put anti-freeze too or will the mixture end up being somewhat toxic or explosive? Another idea would be to replace the black tubing with an inexpensive flat one piece steel radiator painted black with radiator paint (these small radiators, new, are about 10 Euros). And I already have a few double glass window panels (found on the street) that I could use instead of the polycarbonate sheet/bubble wrap.
Any opinion on this?
JWB – at 16:34 - I have a question for you. I have difficulty in visualising the exact positioning of “In my township the stack height is not determined by roof line height. The end of the stack must be at two feet pass where it goes thru (or passes if completely outside) the roof or measure horizontally from end of stack to a distance of at least ten feet to an intersecting point on the roof. Picture a triangle 2ft or more high and 10 feet horizontal with the longer side of the triangle the roof slope. Thus my stack does not protrude higher than the roof. It’s been like that for 8 years and no problems.” I have the same problem as tjclaw1, I was quoted 3,000 euros to make a chimney and I do not have this money. I could easily though put the three stoves I bought (second hand, total 100 euros) in the veranda (which is huge and connects with two large gliding glass doors to the kitchen and sitting room, and which I use as my office and dining room) and which located is on the first floor of the house. I could position them on the lowest side, and build the chimney myself, if I understood exactly your measurements. Would you direct me to a web site with a little drawing, or send me a scanned little drawing (silkski at yahoo dot fr). Many thanks.
ahh! my fist month in a house is done (Always lived in flats before) and I am getting some knowledge about heating a hole hose that is also poorly insulated. The house is aprox 80–90 years old, and have some very smart construction. The chimney is in the center, and almost all rooms have a chimney part in part of the wall, this is very important. the chimney is made of solid bricks, not that new fancy Leca air-filled concrete, this is important because the heath stores well in bricks, but the modern stuff isolates actually meaning that more of the heath will go to the crows.
The wood oven has 3 out of 4 important things, 1 its glass in the front, so you can get heat quickly when cold. 2 it has a convection system, dragging cold air from the low, flushing it out as hot air above (to make this more effekttive during daytime I have mounted a small ventilator to blow even more for better distribution of heath in the rooms. 3 it has the brick fundament along with the chimney to store heath over the nigh, so the house will not get bad-cold in the morning. the only thing missing is the possibility to kook on top of it. (but if I make a aluminum box and places it into the space where the hot air arises I will probably be able to make bread there.
we uses one large shopping bag of wood EACH DAY.. the wood is poor type from fast growing pine, the wood from leaf trees are much better.
So in a black out we would do just fine, I got a kerosene camping stove for cooking, ( and today I bought a cheap plastic hand pump for well water just in case, the electric pump goes nighty..)
But its still some rooms that is cold, (in a comfortable way), and my electric bill still scares me, so I am doing some easy tricks to save and gain heath/electricity. Fist ALL bulbs are replaced with fluorescence (aprox 80% saved) and LED bulbs for the light that has to be on all night (saves aprox 99%). The LED bulbs also gives me security in a blackout, I will only need a small inverter (they uses 230ACV) to have light for weeks maybe months with my car battery. hooked up in regular lamps, with regular extension cords,
For the shower I have what we call a “sawing shower head” it guarantees that only 6 liters (1,6 gal) is used pr minute. Ordinary showers uses 20 liters (5,3 gal) this is a huge saving, and comfort is brilliant. Its important that this “head” mixes air with water to be comfy, a reduction in water only is just bullshit. Make sure that this is the function, sine many “saver showers” only limits water flow, and that is the equivalent to half open water-flow.. In a blackout I will use a simple 12v small camping pump shower, with hot water from a bucket. costs abuts 12$ in all caravan/camping stores.
Windows, I have double windows of old type, they all have isolation bands preventing leaks. The Northern windows have two curtains, one is a ordinary white cotton that is a little thick. behind that I have some special curtains that I fasten in the evenings when its dark, They are made of thin white cotton,a layer of some insulating materials 2 mm thick) that has a metallic coating ( facing inwards, it reflects heath back into the room) and some cotton again on the outer side. This I just sew into a “sandwich” and has some rubber bands to fasten tight across the windows. The best would be to have this as a roller curtain, for easier removal.
The insulating material may be bubble wrap, or white Styrofoam film typically used to wrap electronics in when you shop. The metallic is very effective. I got mine from typical cover for car-windows that is used to prevent icing. The metallic emergency blankets available is also the right material.
Well after all this saving my bill should be nice.. but not nice enough.. I need to harvest some more free energy.
Solar power, its free, and its there very often even in mid winter where I live..(very few are aware of how effective it is in northern climates. Most homeowners now pay aprox 3000$ a year for energy here.. (since the privatization of the power-plants, the prices have risen due to energy shortness everywhere)
For 3000$ you can get a hell lot of solar-power! The payoff wil be juste a few years, and after that its free, free!) Forget about heath-pumps, they will after the payoff continues to cost you money, and after 19.15 years you can be sure the hole shit is broken..AND the medium used is not harming the ozone layer anymore, in exchange they started using a gas that is one of the most powerful greenhouse gasses, That means a leak will be just as bad as a thousand cars on the road for years!
Solar is the key, it lowers energy cost for heating and hot water with 40–60%. And if done correctly (with solar electric for the controllers) also will give you that emergency independence needed in a blackout crisis. Order it now, and the professionals companies will fix it quick, or just buy the high efficient collector and do a DIY self solution for the heath storage and distribution system.
well, I don´t own my house so I cant invest in any of this, and I am not allowed to make holes in walls etc, so I have to do simpler,
Wenetian blinds.. aluminum ones, place them in every south facing window, they are cheap, and needs to be black on the side facing out. The inner side is preferably metallic or white. A spray-paint can takes care of that.
this will increase the windows effect as solar-collectors, giving you some heath during daytime, Not enough for keeping a house warm in winter, but it surly helps.
:-)
Planned: how to cheaply build a solar-collector that heaths air for distribution, with cheap materials. And my experience with it..
Re: Natural Gas. My brother works in production and industrial applications of NG. My information pertains to Canada only. The NG that is needed for this winter is already largely purified, and is pumped into vast underground caverns, held there and dispensed. The plants that pump, purify and odorized the gas run on natural gas themselves. The compressors that pressurize the NG down the lines to your house run on NG themselves. The contingency plan for no electricity is to switch to NG for all their power, and they can do so indefinitely.
For security reasons, I cannot print some things on the net, but rest assured, they are already one season ahead, and have done extensive planning. Yeah, I guess they all could die and I can’t operate the plant. But for the next 6 months, we will have NG.
A gas fireplace properly installed will heat your house radiantly like a wood stove (the fan will not work without electricity). The starter produces its own electric spark that ignites the gas. Bro went into a technical discussion about two metals and differential temps that create a spark, and lost me.
A gas stove top will cook your food and as long as it is clean burning, it doesn’t represent a threat to your health and you do not need to vent it for short cooking periods. All gas burners can be lit with a match. NG combustion produces CO2 and water. The danger is in reburning CO2 as it builds up in the house, and that produces CO (carbon monoxide). That is why you cannot heat a house with a gas stove. Don’t try.
In general, a back up plan is not a bad idea, if this threat truly stretches out for 18 months.
FrenchieGirl – at 15:33 Have you calked every crack you can find? Our house was built around 1900, and although it has all new windows and siding, the windows were never calked around. I went through about 10 tubes of calk last winter sealing every crack I could find. It really made a difference. I also found a thing to put under the front door that keeps cold air from coming under it. There is also a foam insulation in a spray can that you can put around pipes or in larger holes - I used a lot of that in the basement. I used to get a lot of lady bugs and spiders in my house, but not anymore!
I talked to a person at a stove store who told me that to do it right, you’ve got to take the chimney past the peak of the house. Check your building code or with your local fire department on this. I’ve determined that it is impossible to put a wood-burning stove in our house unless we do a major remodel. So I’m preparing for us to tough it out and use kerosene heater when it gets really cold.
Well, My kitty won’t have anything to do with the wood pellets; as far as making use of them in the litter box; soooo I’ll just use them for my Buddy Burners…( works GREAT for those, BTW ! )
In Ma.,I was gonna buy a wood stove and vent it through my fire place chimney. Say $600 to $1000 for a stove,state law say’s you have to line the chimney with stainless steal,$1200.00,then it has to be inspected by the Fire Dept. and the insurance co.I could go through the wall with stove pipe but it would really be a permanent pain as far as the furniture,ect.And it’s a permanent hole in the wall to the outside!It could never be patched right,or covered up,in my situation.
tjclaw,
Think about winter heating as though you were camping in January. Start small. Rather than attempt to heat the entire house, consider heating only the smallest room or a very small partitioned space that has a south-facing window. A Coleman Black Cat puts out 3,000 BTUs and can operate for at least 6 hours on a 1 pound disposable propane bottle. At the present price of about $2.50 per bottle (U.S.), the cost will be $10 per day to heat one very small space. Depending upon the weather outside, you might never get cozy warm, but you can prevent frostbite.
Moving up from there, you could use a Mr Heater “Big Buddy” portable, which has a variable output of 4,000, 9,000 and 18,000 BTUs and can operate on bulk propane tanks.
The 23,000 BTU kerosene heaters really put out a lot of heat, but they are not adjustable.
Wood burning stoves are terrific, but they are not without an element of risk—and I do not mean fire. Assuming that 99.99% of the population will run out of resources within the first month of a pandemic, what will people think when they see the smoke from your chimney? They will think that you still have resources. So, what will you do when your neighbors come to your house in search of warmth? Will you turn them away? If you let them in, how do get them to leave? At what point will your unprepared neighbors become your adversaries?
Good points, Dr. Dave. I ended up purchasing a 10,000 btu kerosene heater and have 20 gal kerosene stored in the detached garage so far. I figured I could store more kerosene than propane safely in my garage.
We’re going to be getting some bids to add a two-story addition to our house, which would include a new family room with a Jotul wood-burning stove. Several of our neighbors already heat their homes with wood stoves, so the smell of wood burning and neighbors coming to our house will be less of an issue. I know that one of my neighbors is a prepper. She was a sheriff’s deputy, and is willing to help provide security for the neighborhood. We have a pretty close neighborhood, but I do worry about people who are not from our neighborhood coming here. I’m waiting to get my FOID car renewal and then I’m going to purchase a handgun and a shotgun. We have a prison here too, and the security there during a pandemic is a major concern for me.
bump
Heat’s been on my mind lately. It’s been zero several mornings this week and I worry about not freezing to death if we should lose gas and electric so I’ve been rereading the old threads.
p.s. could someone fix the sidescroll?
thanks
Dr Dave,
You are correct, approached from an urban or suburban point of view. However, in county / forested locations, smoke from wood fires in fireplaces and woodstoves will be expected. That’s cause everyone has (or should have)an ample supply of wood to burn. That doesn’t mean they have food to cook, only wood to burn to keep warm. Take your chances after that with respect to visitors looking for your “stuff.” I prefer wood and food, but others may only have wood to burn. Smoke does not necessarily mean provisions, but it does imply heat for those that are unheated. After that, YOYO.
about purchasing kerosene……
I have burned it for a number of years and found that some gas stations lace their so called “K-1″ with heating oil. You can detect this if you always smell the nozzle before buying. Anything less than pure kerosene will throw fumes.
My insurance agent wants to see the mass storage of combustables in an out building away from my house
.
Man! Thank the Almighty Unknown that I live in a mild temperate zone with nice sunny skies all the time and don’t have to worry about freezing to death every winter.
Now, all I have to worry about are psychopaths out to steal my stash. Sheesh!
It’s always somethin’ isn’t it KellyP!
You do not have to spend $2.50 for a 1# canister of gas. Herbor freight has adaptors to refill them from a 20# canister. stock # 45989–5BCA
That’s good advice! Thanks! Is there any trick to filling one - or not overfilling or something? Does it have a gauge so that you can tell when to stop?
Don’t know if this warm weather(up to the 60″s) is going to be our new norm, but went away for a few days and turned off the heat. On the road back home, a man driving his white corvette with its top down, toll taker commented, “Thats a bit much.” Crocus blooming. Cherry trees coming into bloom at the Brooklyn Botanical Gardens. Wonder if this is our new winter. Can’t say I’ll be unhappy if it is. Noticed the town or telephone co. road crew chopped and removed a willow tree that was bending over the road on my property. All the wood is gone, just a bit of wood chips where the stump remains in the stream bed. Can’t say I mind that either, don’t know how good a burner willow wood is.. Every now and then they get rid of something. Sometimes I don’t know until afterwards, othertimes I have to go out and find out what is up. Reading of crazy things that happened locally. One carpenter on crack started to remove one ladies deck. He was rambling on, and showed the police the retaining wall he was demolishing and said it was something else. One morning I woke up to noise and when I went to my front door, all my Williamsburg planters and porch evergreens where on the front lawn, and the installation man who had the wrong address was getting ready to tear down my front door and replace it with double doors. Not drugs, just someone who dropped a zero in the address. Life is never dull.
diana - you did not lose much by not getting any wood from that willow tree. Of all the trees, willow has the lowest, or one of the lowest heat values..
It’s going down to 8 in the heights, 0 in the valley tonight in Albuquerque, New Mexico. We still have lots of snow on the ground. What’s this about a mild winter?
Mari, seems like NM, Colorado and that part of the country have gotten the brunt of Winter so far.
Here in MA for instance, only 2 inches of snow total in the Boston area, temps are up in the 40s and 50s just about every day and expected to be that way at least through this Sunday. Global warming, El Nino? Do not know, and being a native New Englander, always expect to pay for the nice weather later on, but another week will just about be middle of Jan., only about 6 weeks of Winter left. I never count March as no matter what it gets warmer and snow melts quickly. I’ll take what we can get. Last Sunday, DW and I spent a pleasant couple of hours stacking a delivery of wood in just a light fleece jacket..
If there is too much snow, send some this way, as our ski resorts are really hurting. Even when the temps are cold enough for snowmaking, the ground is too warm.
A few years ago we had about 2000 lightning strikes in a few hours. I stood on my porch and watched lightning hit another of my very large willows. Strips of bark ,four feet in length ,flew into the road, and half the tree was stripped of bark. The tree is still standing and survives. Won’t bother saving that wood. How about swamp maples. I have a fifty year old keeling over another part of my stream. It had three main trunks, and they are curving onto the ground in different directions. I’m just letting it go. Its seasoning itself in place. I have a nice female neighbor who has a male friend who seems amiable and ready to help me out any time I want. Perhaps in the spring, I might have him carve up a few smaller swamp maples that are ready to die. Their limbs are snapping off in every storm. Unfortunatly, the men I have gotten friendly with are intellectually stimulating, but not mountain men at heart. The last one is sailing around the world and is in Australia right now. He sent me a page torn out of a magazine that has Sydney Harbor with the words “Where the hell are you?” ( the advert says that.) Since there were no plane tickets attatched I’m still here in Jersey.So I really count on the expert advice I get from the competent men here on the wiki. Thanks.
Diana, north south or central Jersey? I’m in Central and enjoying our summer weather. Everyday is one less day of winter.As Nautical man said, you can’t count March.
Oh yes you can. We had three blizzards right smack on St. Patricks day after 60 degree weather. Our great Maxx, a german shepherd bugged out and was trapped for a week out in the snow. He never bugged out again in his lifetime. Live in Somerset County. Hills and dales, beautiful.
Yeah, well that goes with the territory up in the snow country. Enjoy this week anyway.