From Flu Wiki 2

Forum: Circumventing the System

10 November 2006

janetn – at 23:14

I for one have been frustrated with TPTB. I have felt that Im banging my head against a brick wall. All the while the clock is ticking. So what about going straight to the people instead. Im going to start hitting area churches.I will be making appt. with the pastors and presenting some of the facts regarding H5, I will leave some reading material with my phone number and an offer to address the church about the threat and what can be done to prepare and motivate local officials to act. Anyone have any other ideas, places, or groups that might be receptive? Your collective thoughts would be welcomed

mj – at 23:28

Local clubs are always looking for “speakers”. Check with the extension homemakers, PTA/PTO, scouting - be prepared, Lions, Rotary, Professional Women’s Association, Local political women’s group, check your local paper and see if it has a calendar of local events - and call those sources, historical club, genealogical society - tie it in with 1918, support groups - folks with special needs that need to be getting ready, Salvation Army?, food pantry, rescue missions, etc. Local university/college professors of history/public health/continuing ed for their classes. Local health food stores to have a ‘workshop’, local grocery stores for a prep promotion, drugstores the same.

anon_22 – at 23:36

janetn – at 23:14

Good for you!

Just one word of caution. If this is the first time you are publicly doing this in a systematic way, it may be useful to ‘practise’ what you are going to say first, to get the best effect. This kind of information is not easy to understand nor easy to accept.

Probably most important to get 2 things right

1) the amount of information or level of complexity - it may be useful to write out a ‘chain of logic’ to build your case towards your outcome, then make a simplified version of what you’ve written so you have 2 different levels of details to give depending on who you talk to and what they are interested in.

2) the balance between being assertive and being permissive - push them too hard, people abreact. Just give them the information without telling them what to do, most people won’t do anything. You need to offer solutions so people don’t feel helpless, but the solutions should have enough flexibility that they don’t feel being walked over either, IMO.

I would also recommend saying that this is an evolving situation and you would keep them informed of developments. This will give you the opportunity to do that as well as re-visit what you have said the first time. Do not be surprised or upset if you find that they have missed quite a lot of what you said the next time round.

I read a survey once that said most people questioned immediately after leaving a doctor’s office retain only 40% of what they have been told.

Good luck.

Surfer – at 23:37

janetn

Your goal is admirable. However, you may want to consider remaining annonymous. When this stuff hits - and the folks are dropping dead or starving - if your contactees know that you have goodies, they will come for them. Pastor, congregation, and all.

Consider this: Annonymous email to those in the community that you think may have some influence. Point them to this site (including the forum) and other sites. They then become responsible for their own destiny, and you don’t reveal your identity.

11 November 2006

FloridaGirlat 00:12

janetn – at 23:14

That is a great idea. And it what i have done.

My recommendation… Set up an appointment with someone in your health department for a meeting. Tell them you want to show them the material you are going to be presenting to various groups. Your reasoning is to make sure you are giving the same information. They may share with you some of their plans… It does work. I now am part of the committee.

But, things to think about. Power Points work well, but use them as a visual only. Talk to the slide’s contents. Use pictures of the 1918 pandemic… Those slides are a good place to talk about things like… The medical care available then… and the medicare available now… and the CFR is still > 50%.

use the most current info… Inform them that there are official sites that have info… i.e pandemicflu.gov, cdc who, CIDRAP, Pro Med, etc…. and unofficial but very informative in all aspects. i.e. fluwiki.

Don’t stay anonymous… people don’t know where you live. If people do not begin to get out there and be seen, then others will not either. Set the stage….

anon_22 – at 01:09

The issue of anonymity is very important. There’s a case for it both ways. On a local level, Surfer’s concern is genuine. OTOH, it is very hard to be convincing if you are anonymous. Perhaps one way is to work on a bigger piece of ‘localness’ eg county level rather than town level, and not give out your real address except to 1 or 2 people.

I myself have chosen for now to work more at the national or international level, and not just cos of this. I have only spoken to one person locally, someone that I picked very carefully based on many considerations, and this person has not responded at all. I have a suspicion that he has taken my advice and started to prep but chose to keep quiet about it. In a way I don’t blame him, as trust is not easy to find in this town where I live!

As Melanie kept reminding me, coming out of anonymity is easy. Taking it back is impossible.

lugon – at 05:49

There might be a network so that I talk in your place and you talk in mine. If such a “couple” is formed, please tell us how it works.

anon_22 – at 08:30

lugon – at 05:49

There might be a network so that I talk in your place and you talk in mine. If such a “couple” is formed, please tell us how it works.

OMG that’s such a good idea! You want to start a thread for that. Yes, you do. :-)

2beans – at 08:38

anon-22 - How is Melanie doing? Any word on when she’s coming back?

FloridaGirlat 08:43

The anonymous thing would not work for me in any fashion. My county is too small. Everyone already knows me, my family, etc. But, what I bring with the familarity is credibility.

But,summer of 2005, I did pick and choose who to talk to. This summer and fall, there is more of a sense of urgency. I am talking to larger groups. I know people are listening, I know people believe… I just do not know if they really understand and are prepping to any extent.

I am now beginning to talk to teenagers. I am telling them how to talk to each other, their parents, etc. Most important… get the facts right.

crfullmoon – at 08:57

don’t forget the federal checklist for churches at pandemicflu.gov, and, anything useful you can find from your state’s pandemic summit

;-) (if you’re not from the US, feel free to borrow anything - go find that retracted Nov 3rd “12-week” advisory for Americans in HK)

“Faith-based and community organizations will play an integral role in the event of a pandemic. Health and Human Services (HHS) and Center for Disease Control (CDC) have developed a checklist to assist community organizations with their pandemic planning” (also available En Español )

http://pandemicflu.gov/plan/community/index.html

Same page, I would also print out the Medical Reserve Corps guidelines, or, just their Assumptions about what a pandemic will be like, since seems like places are trying to get people to volunteer without knowing what a pandemic really is, or just want to talk about the vaccine distribution part, not the getting community ready for “two or three quarters of a year catching pandemic and coping with disruptions part” … which certainly seems like should happen first, in case this breaks out next month…

crfullmoon – at 09:09

I also wonder if local papers or free, advertising-papers, could find something to object to in being asked to run snippets as filler/PSAs; the short Definitions of Seasonal, Avian, and Pandemic influenzas, and say it is “from the US pandemiflu.gov” for instance.

;-) HHS Sec. Leavitt’s MN pandemic summit quote:

Any state, any community, or for that matter any citizen that failed to prepare - assuming that the federal government could take care of them during a pandemic - would be tragically wrong,

Or the pandemicflu.gov intro for individuals the parts that say, during an influenza pandemic, Social Disruption May Be Widespread, Being Able to Work May Be Difficult or Impossible, Schools May Be Closed for an Extended Period of Time, Transportation Services May Be Disrupted, People Will Need Advice and Help at Work and Home, Be Prepared, Stay Healthy, Get Informed see http://pandemicflu.gov/plan/individual/index.html

crfullmoon – at 09:11

“from the US pandemicflu.gov” (darn, knew I missed a typo somewhere)

He thinks I’m crazy too – at 10:01

Try the Men’s fellowship groups—they are always looking for speakers. Keep it short only 20 minutes and have handouts with additional information and web sites. Most churches also have women’s missionary groups that may be willing to have a speaker, If you are a male you would probably want to ask your wife to make the contacts and accompany you. Use the Biblical angle and women want to hear how they can protect their “cubs”. Different strokes for different folks, know your audience and what they want to learn about. You might want to feel out the heads of these groups first—if you can get leaders behind you the rest of the group will probably listen. Try writing articles in the newspaper and offer to speak to local groups.

crfullmoon – at 10:21

(You mean an angle such as the “during 7 good years; stock up for coming 7 bad years” story?)

lugon – at 10:57

lugon wrote: There might be a network so that I talk in your place and you talk in mine. If such a “couple” is formed, please tell us how it works.

anon_22 wrote: OMG that’s such a good idea! You want to start a thread for that. Yes, you do. :-)

I see just one problem with that idea: the name and location have to be Joe Nobody or they may print it electronically and you’d be found out locally anyway.

But I’ll start the thread and see what happens. Here it is!

Surfer – at 12:24

You folks are to be commended for your your concern. However, there is no need to put your life on the line needlessly. Yes, warn your family and friends. Most will ignore you. Be sure that they understand that they will not be invited to share in your assets and provisions (if you have enough) unless they agree to specific rules and compensation for your effort to save their lives. Be firm. Don’t let their ignorance soften your stand and be transformed into guilt.

As for the community, you will have a bullseye on your forehead if you reveal your preparations. Maintain your annonimity, but get the word out. It is not your fault if your community ignores your warning, just as it not your fault if they ignore the smoke alarms in their homes when they are on fire and burning to the ground.

Your priority is to protect your family.

anon for this one – at 12:43

So, about that fluwikian relocation program…

17 November 2006

bump – at 06:37
Surfer – at 09:14

Don’t know who bumped this at 06:37, but I happened to spy it. The following is my one page letter that I am shooting out today. Perhaps it can be of use to others.

November 17, 2006 Dear Friend,

I’ve been sending out warnings regarding this subject since January 2006 (contact being made personally, by mail, telephone, fax, or e-mail). To my knowledge, almost one year later, not one recipient has prepared. Shocking. Amazingly, except for four individuals, folks did not even have the courtesy to acknowledge receipt of my messages. It is disappointing, yet revealing.

This letter is an effort to inform those of you that I have not previously informed of this dynamic situation. Perhaps you “new” folks will understand the severity of the circumstances - none of the previous recipients apparently did. I hope all of you do.

This condition is rapidly approaching critical mass. New information released this past week by institutional and government sources is compelling and urgent. Wake up, look up, and wise up. Previous recipients - this is a courtesy notice. You are only being copied. You were warned. You did not respond. I hope that you now “get it.”

Based on past experience, I don’t expect most or even any of you to act. But I am extending this warning to you as a “heads up” because I am personally acquainted with each of you, and I would not feel comfortable if I did not pass this information on to you. At the risk of being scorned, I have now warned you. And glad to do it. It is now up to you to act - or not.

Bottom Line: If you don’t act soon, it will be too late for you to do so. Believe it. In the U.S. Armed Forces, this is referred to as a “no shitter.” Rephrased, that means that “if you don’t get your ass in gear right now, you ain’t gonna make it.”

Believe me. I’ve spent well over 1,000 hours researching this subject. I’ve devoted at least three times that amount of time preparing. I am convinced that it will arrive - and soon. You can prepare in much less time. I can show you how. Just ask.

The threat is from pandemic H5N1 “Bird Flu.” H5N1 is here. It will kill you either by direct virus contact or collateral damage to our infrastructure. The pandemic has yet to arrive, but it is very, very close. It will be devastating. Prepare accordingly.

Visit (www.fluwikie.com) for basic information. To see my posted opinion, scroll down the left column (gold colored) to the “Opinion” category. Click it. On that page, scroll down to “Surfer’s Introduction and Views.” Click it. Read all of ‘em.

To view the opinions of others, visit (www.fluwikie2.com). It is important that you do this! The opinions and facts expressed on this forum range from those of the new and uninitiated to “in the know” scientists, doctors, researchers, health care workers, and government employees. The opinions and news arrives from around the world - 24/7/365. Yes, there are some folks that post seemingly stupid opinions on some threads. Those opinions may indeed be stupid. Who knows? But don’t let that distract you. Sort them out, and ignore the rubbish. Look at the big picture. Read the (www.newsnow.co.uk) website (hot topics, bird flu) and the (www.fluwikie2.com) forum daily. Bookmark them. Lots of good gouge. You don’t have much time left. Check Six. Pass it on. Best Wishes. Surfer.

Annoyed Max- Not mad yet – at 09:55

I just found this thread. Umm been there done that. Let me save you the trouble. You will find that no one is interested in what you have to say, they will look at you like your a nut even when you have legit scientific data to back it up. You will quickly find people are just too stupid to comprehend what is going to happen and you will get frustrated and mad at them. The people that can understand what your saying already know whats up. Plus looking at the news of the last 2 days it might already be too late. Even going full bore you cant prep in a few weeks. The average person does not have that kind of cash reserve to do it even if they wanted. Personally I have a maxed out amex card to show for my prep efforts. I dont mean to really discourage you, by all means if you think you can make a difference go for it. But speaking from personal experience your wasting your time. If you think Im wrong try a couple meetings and speaking engagements and you see very quickly what I am talking about.

anonymous – at 10:21

I’m curious, with all these problems in your surroundings…
has noone ever considered to move away ???


Let’s create flubieland and give us our own constitution ! And yes, let’s prepare to take over the world when panflu hits badly and revolutions start elsewhere… That’s the sort of preparation which makes people listen. Some union of states like the EU, but worldwide, finally a world government. This is needed anyway earlier or later

Surfer – at 13:49

Annoyed at 09:55

I’ve been there and done that as well. Re-read the first paragraph of my post. See also my posts on the opinion section on the main wiki. Not one has prepared. I’m simply sharing the message with others that I have not yet contacted. If just one of those prepares, then perhaps I will have saved at least one life (maybe many if one includes the family of the newly contacted recipient).

E-mails are easy. If recipients don’t respond, no harm - no foul. I’ve done my job, my conscious is clear. I’m not going to force them to do the right thing at knife point.

As for speaking in public, see my post on 10 November on this thread. I won’t do it.

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