Forum: Flu Prep XXIII

Number 23!! Continued from here

NEMO – at 17:30

Spent a day during my headcold documenting our stuff with a digital camera. I could never in a hundred years remember what all we have. Since we have put a huge house of stuff in an old farm house, the insurance company would probably doubt us when we filed for everything even though we sure as shooting pay extra for the cost of contents three times what it normally would be for this price of house. While this isn’t really flu related, you never know. Civil unrest could result in fires, which might cover some of the replacement. Mostly though, it’s just general preparednessc for other types of disasters. I am documenting every book we own so I can replace them all, each antique cup and saucer, each CD and DVD. Those things add up to thousands and thousands in no time and I could never remember them all. I put the photos on a CD and have one for the safe deposit box and one to keep here at home in a fire safe. I just add a new one every now and then as I take a day or two to photograph more things. I still need to photograph all our tools. For the kitchen, I pretty much just opened up each cupboard and drawer and took pictures of what’s inside. Any specialty equipment like my canners, grinders and Bosch mixer I photographed separately.

NEMO – at 19:29

The new series Jericho is starting in half an hour (central time). It may bring up some very interesting prep thoughts. It’s about the small Kansas town of Jericho after a nuclear blast (in KC??). Have heard good things about it, should be interesting at the very least.

Nemo @ 19:29 It was partially filmed here in my town, Lawrence Ks. The crew was here about a month ago doing publicity stuff…whoa Nelly! That mushroom cloud is freaky! We’re about 20 mins. from KC.

On the tv show Jericho, the nuclear blast seen in Kansas was in Denver, then they found out that Atlanta was hit too. Wonder who the calm and resourceful newcomer is? He said he had been a policeman in St. Louis.

The arguments and fighting at the gas station seemed all too plausible.

Why did they have to put in a busload of escaped convicts? This is scary enough.

The internet grocer is shipping the butter!!

I just got notified that the canned butter is being shipped. yeah!!!! Now I gotta figure out where to put it… jeez, all I do is shift this and shift that…….

silversage at 21:46 -

Ditto!!! Anxious to try it. DH will think I’ve flipped! :-O

Forget ordering those buckets online…the shipping cost alone would be a years worth of flour! I am scratching that idea.

I need some help. Where do I purchase the mylar bags? Where is the best deal? (I’ll do it myself at that shipping price.) Also, the gamma seal lids… anybody using those? If so…why?

Which of those bucket lid pry off things are the best? Where are the best deals?

AND… those sealing vacuum gizmoes- Couldn’t I just use that to seal my flour, rice, etc. If so…which one is best? I have a seal a meal. Forget that. It isn’t big enough. Is there something bigger? I remember discussions about those bags like you’d use to bag a suitcase for a trip, I am not sure what they are called. Has anybody done that? Anybody done this and found one method beats another?

I appreciate any input, advice or ideas. I am to the point I need to put some of this stuff up differently. (Must be at a new level.)

Thanks…in advance!

well…not bag the suitcase for the trip (sheesh..what a dummie)…I mean bag your stuff, shrink-wrapped…to put into the suitcase.

EnoughAlready—I got two great bucket openers at my Ace Hardware store. They are made to open industrial 5-gallon paint buckets. Very sturdy and work really well with the food buckets. Literally, I think I paid less than $3 for two of the openers. No idea about the bags, etc.

Thanks, Galt! That’s a really good price…and there’s an Ace Hdw store up the road from me.

Galt…did you store your stuff in the buckets yourself, or purchase them? It’s the mylar, or “preserving” the contents in the bucket I am curious about. Thanks, again!

EnoughAlready @ 23:19--I stored the stuff in the buckets myself, but I started with foods that seemed more “durable” to me (rice, beans, pasta). I froze the rice and the pasta for 3+ days (in the original packaging) and then let sit to “dry” for a couple of days. Then I put them in the buckets (scavenged buckets and lids from a local small bakery for $1 each—already cleaned and washed—best deal ever) and put the lids on. Have opened them to check on things and to rotate a couple of times and all seems fine. We use enough rice and pasta around here that I’m not thinking of the buckets as really long term (more than a couple of years tops) storage. Because I’m rotating them pretty quickly, didn’t use the mylar bags, ox. absorbers, etc. I’m thinking though that flour is more delicate than the rice and pasta and will go rancid more quickly—also, no one around here particularly bakes that much now, so we wouldn’t rotate it as quickly. That’s why I’m looking at maybe buying the pre-pack buckets of flour. Although, store-brand flour is $1 for 5 lbs at Wally’s. Am thinking I could store 100lbs for $20, and if I left it in the original bags, could dontate to food pantry what we didn’t use in a year. Might come out cheaper than getting the buckets shipped. Wonder if I should’ve frozen the beans?

EA—I have some Gamma seals, When I open a bucket I replace the lid with a gamma seal, for easy opening. Those buckets are hard to open and after a few times you start to damage the lid. The gamma is a screw on lid they work great I have one on my sugar bucket.

Thanks, LT. I wondered what the deal was with the gamma seals. I didn’t realise the screwed on!!

Galt… I had been purchasing smaller bags for a buck and putting them in tins. But recently I’ve been able to find some good prices on 20 [or 25] pound bags of flour. The shipping price on those buckets was ridiculous. I’m just not sure about the best way & most economical way to preserve these items in these buckets. Or if it makes that big a deal if it is already in a bucket. I don’t bake much either… but if it gets as bad as predicted… I may have to!

I haven’t frozen any of my beans. Lord… I am in deep cotton if I needed to… I have a BUNCH of beans put up! (We eat a lot of beans, and I have never had problems with bugs getting into the beans.) I have put up cream of rice cereal to use as part of my diarrhea/vomitting feeding. I froze that.

I discovered little tunnels on most of the leaves of my little tomato plants so off I went to the garden store to find out what was up and what I needed to do.

Leafminers. Soon to be EX-leafminers, courtesy of the organic stuff recommended by the garden store.

Enough and Galt - check out www.honeyville.com. They have very reasonable shipping - or did last time I ordered - $4.99 flat rate or something like that. You might snag soem sealed flour that way. Their service was great and quick.

For bags, buckets, respirators, tools of all sorts - try McMaster-Carr. They are on the web at

http://www.mcmaster.com/

Excellent service, in my experience.

EnoughAlready, I have stored my beans, rice, pasta etc. in 5 gallon buckets with mylar bags and oxygen asorbers. I have about14 buckets, I put gamma lids on 4 of them for easy access, I will rotate those lids as I use up the buckets.

I got the buckets from Lowes, I got the Mylar and Oxygen from Walton Feed. I bought the food localy from my grocery store.

NEMO – at 17:30

You’ll never regret the time it takes to document your household contents. Trust me, when our house in north FL got trashed by the vandals and stuff stolen as well the pictures we had, even those that were just casual holiday photos, were invaluable in recooping our losses.

I’ve also found that pictures of heirlooms, etc. are invaluable in genealogical research. I’ll never in a million years remember all the stories behind my mom’s heirlooms and such stuff. By taking pictures of it and then writing a caption below it in a scrapbook type thing, I’ll have the story and so will my kids should something happen to me.

Even in the best of times, untimely deaths occur … and unfortunately a lot of family information is lost at the same time. A medical history and a genealogical history of the family should be on everyone’s preps.

Yesterday the kiddo’s and I filled 4 5gallon buckets with rice and pasta. We now have 9 filled bucket, wow they look nice. Now my smaller containers of rice and pasta fit on the shelf that only held the rice before. Freeing up a shelf and a half so I could move my home canned meats out of the basement. Lots of work, but so worth it to look in those closets and see all the food lined up and know how long it will feed my family.

We are a warped bunch! Where other people like to look out on their driveways and see a nice shiny new car…we like to look in our basements, mudrooms,pantries and see nice shiny white plastic buckets full of food lined up and stacked high!! That’s a new twist on — beauty is in the eye of the beholder— for sure!!

NEMO – at 10:20

I’m sorry, but I think you got that wrong. Beauty is in the eye of the bucketholder. LOL

I think some of us would like to discuss the prepping aspects of the show Jericho to compare Hollywoods version of a dire emergency compared to how we have disscussed being prepared for a dire emergency (specifically pandemic) here on the wiki. However, there are a lot of folks who don’t want to be bogged down with comments on a TV show, so I’m starting a new thread and copying over the links from here that pertain to it.

Chesapeake, Kathy-in-FL and Hillbilly Bill, wow, this is a fast-moving thread! Thanks for the info on fuel, and now I know exactly where to get it.

Well, since I’m dealing with a storage space shortage for a bit … in the midst of reorganizing … I’ve switched my prepping back to my homemade home care manual for the family.

I’ve been deligently looking for home remedies and home health care suggestions that are practical and would be easy for my husband and/or kids to implement if I am out of action. I just don’t feel completely comfortable with some of the homeopathic suggestions out there as I don’t know how my kids would react to some of the herbs and such or even how to dose the stuff. On the other hand, its fairly easy to understand that if you have someone who is suffering from anaemia then feeding them beets helps. <grin>

I don’t expect this to be an easy task, but I want to at least make more headway than I’ve have in the past.

Just got my order of Red Feather canned butter in — anyone know the true shelf life of these?

AVanarts – at 10:23

Clever 8^)

Dusty – at 11:26

Just got my order of Red Feather canned butter in — anyone know the true shelf life of these?

i store mine in a spare fridge, so I’m guessing at least 2–3 years.

At room temperature, figure 18 months.

Is there a handy address for ordering the butter? Thanks!

Is there any reason y’all aren’t canning your own butter?

I ordered mine from Internet Grocer, but I was told that it is cheaper from mrewholesalers: http://tinyurl.com/nms68 You can also just be a private customer to buy from them at the same low price. The shelf live is reported by them to be indefinite!

EnoughAlready – at 22:56 Forget ordering those buckets online… the shipping cost alone would be a years worth of flour! I am scratching that idea.

EnoughAlready you are so right about that shipping. I checked Montana Wheat for the grain already in the bucket…a little over $20 for 45lbs…BUT the Shipping for it was little over $26.00. Holy Cow!!! I quickly made run to the health food store a few towns over and bought 200 lbs of wheat berries for $29.00 and now all I have to do is freeze and put in buckets!!!

Speaking of Hollywood and prepping we watched Blast from the Past with Brendan Fraser last night and BOY am I way behind in my prepping!!! They were underground in their bomb shelter for 35 years! It was fun looking at their set-up and wondering if I could do the same! Dh was giving me the don’t get any ideas look!!!

Well I am waiting for my oxygen absorbers to come in from honeyvillegrains and them I am going to start putting everything in buckets.

Oremus at 14:25 Is there a reason y’all aren’t canning your own butter?

Yea, Botulism!

oops corrections on that grain price…it was $58 for 200 lbs. T

oops corrections on that grain price…it was $58 for 200 lbs.

PBQ – at 14:35

Why would my canned butter have botulism, and not theirs?

NEMO – at 10:20 We are a warped bunch! Where other people like to look out on their driveways and see a nice shiny new car…we like to look in our basements, mudrooms,pantries and see nice shiny white plastic buckets full of food lined up and stacked high!! That’s a new twist on — beauty is in the eye of the beholder— for sure!!

And I thought it was just me! Now I don’t feel bad that I sometimes sleep in the garage with my hand on my portable generator. :-)

Need More Food: Our stocking plan has been based upon the anticipated caloric need for our household for one year. For example, if each person only needs 11 calories per pound of body weight per day for subsistence, that give us one value. Alternately, if we base it on 15 calories per pound of body weight per day, that give us another value. So, I created a stock up list on an Excel spreadsheet. It now has 113 food item entries and the quantities of each item that are in storage. Whenever I modify the quantities, it recalculates the total calories and it changes the anticipated number of months that this supply will feed us (under optimium conditions). So, when I add a 25 pound bag of rice, the total calorie count goes up by 40,320 and it displays an incremental increase in the projected supply life at the 11, 13, and 15 calorie levels.

Just for reference, our combined weight is 570 pounds, so at 11 calories per pound, we need to consume about 6,270 calories each day for mere subsistence. At an expenditure rate of 15 calories per pound (our present rate), we need to consume 8,550 calories each day. When we began prepping, we never through about it like this, but has successfully guided our purchase decisions: the quest for 3 million calories.

WOW Dr Dave, I’ve never seen a more detailed explanation of how to calculate food needed.

I just started measuring what we eat everyday normally, then figure out how many meals worth of, food I have in the house.

Good afternoon all

The battle with Sears began today. Yesterday the repairman came out and after one whiff from that freezer- said he wouldn’t go near it and that even if he could figure out what went wrong and fix it- it can’t be cleaned well enough and that we need to get it out of the house because of all the nasty things that could be growing in the mess. Later he came back and said Sears would replace the freezer. I asked- what about replacing the $1040.38 of food I lost, the carpet and pad and the cabinet and wall board and the studs behind it that were soaked with the blood and what ever else, and all the work involved in that- de-odoring the house? He said we’d have to discuss that with the warentee people. They said they’d give us 250.00 for the lost food. 250.00???? Who keeps a 20.6 CF freezer with 250.00 of food in it??? I could put that in the little freezer under my fridge. Plus- I don’t want another freezer like that one. It could all happen again- I’d never trust it. Hubby told them no-go and now the real fight begins.

Oremus, because butter is not really “canned”. It is not processed like “real” canned foods and it doesn’t have an acidic or sugar base. Regular processing or acid foods will kill/degrade botulism spores. You have botulism in your house right now. Any microbiologist can some over, do a few swabs and grow it. I have it in my house too, we all do.

The receipe’s I’ve seen for canning butter are simple and not adaquate to kill the spores. You cannot see, taste, feel or know botulism is in your butter. While we all ingest a few from time to time (like in honey) they are not there in suffiecent quantity to harm a healthy adult. Home canned butter will be a farm for botulism, of sorts. It will just grow and grow without us being able to tell if it is there or not. Most batches of your butter I’m sure will be fine, with no ill effects. Chances are that not all will be without botulism however. I tend to err on the side of caution. You could eat 99 jars of butter and be wonderful and on the 100th jar get sick. Or it could be the one out of one thousand but you’ll get one eventually. It would be a pity to survive BF and die of food poisoning. I suggest calling your local extension agent or google botulism and home canning. Good luck. I want all of us to make it.

Cinda – at 16:33

Good luck with Sears! Have you called your insurance company? You may be covered for the damages from the spoiled meat and for replacing the meat. It’s worth a phone call.

great idea silversage

Be sure to take photos to show the insurance adjuster.

Those of you with prescription drug insurance plans: have you asked your physicians to prescribe Tamiflu or Relenza for your households? If so, what were your responses?

Oremus – at 14:25 Is there any reason y’all aren’t canning your own butter?

Time, lack of desire and interest :) Sorry, not a canner, never will be …

Cinda - before you actually file a claim with your insurance company, you might suggest to Sears that they need to turn in a claim to their insurance company. Or, if you turn the claim into your company, talk to them about subrogation - it might be easier at some point to have your insurance company pay you (if this is a covered loss, depends on what kind of coverage you’ve got) and then have your insurance company go after Sears. And, Cinda, nobody who has a 20.6 cf freezer only has $250 worth of food in it. That’s like one shelf full;-) I know they have to set limits, but, IMHO, they need to be realistic limits, and $250 ain’t realistic! Hang in there and continue to keep us posted.

P.S. You remembered correctly - hubby rides a Heritage Softtail (I just hang on to him and lean at all the appropriate times)

Carrey in VA:

There are lots of web sites that will help you determine your caloric needs. Try a search for “BMR”. Visit several sites and be sure their calculators account for gender, age, and physical activity levels. Armed with that information for your household, it will be simply a matter of determining how many days’ worth of food you want to get. We were really apprehensive about getting 1.5 million calories for six months, but we went way past that in no time. Now that we have passed the 3 million calorie mark, we are looking for things that will offer variety to the way we prepare our staples. You know, gallon jugs of soy sauce, jumbo canisters of garlic powder, instant gravy mix, etc.

Buying the food was work. Seasoning it is fun.

Dr Dave – at 17:54

Those of you with prescription drug insurance plans: have you asked your physicians to prescribe Tamiflu or Relenza for your households?

Yes.

If so, what were your responses?

He’d give us as many Rx’s as we wanted. The deductible… out of the roof.

need more food – at 14:34

I broke down today and purchased a few buckets from Emergency Essentials. The shipping cost was only $12!!!!!!! I want some all purpose flour, but can’t find it… I don’t understand the flour… hard red winter, etc. I just want all purpose… I don’t care if it is the “potato chip” of flour. And I don’t get mylar bags. They had a photo on one website, can’t remember which one, with a woman wrapped up in a silver looking blanket… but it had to do with the mylar bags. Do I have to make my own bags out of this stuff? I think I am just going to get dry ice… from the grocery store… and drop it in the bucket.

I also got some of those gamma lids. Those are gonna be a luxury item!!

Chesapeake – at 07:46

Please, read what I said above about the mylar bags. I must be the village idiot. I just don’t understand these things. Do they come in sizes, like ziplock baggies do?

Has anybody canned frozen juice… to make canned juice? (Sorry, I know this isn’t the canning thread. Slipping it in under the radar.)

EnoughAlready -

Here is a site that describes mylar bags: http://tinyurl.com/kraak

What you do is to put one bag in a bucket, then put your food in the mylar bag, put the oxygen absorbers in the bag, and then seal it. Then put the top on the bucket.

Got my order from Honeyville today. Took about a week, including the weekend, plus they tossed in a couple packets of gourmet hot chocolate for free. Shipping for the the whole bit-two #10 cans and two orders of oxygen absorbers-was $4.95.

More info on Mylar http://tinyurl.com/q5yf8

EnoughAlready – at 20:30

Whole wheat comes in soft or hard. The soft has less gluten and is better for cakes, cookies, muffins, etc. You would need to add gluten to make a good loaf of bread. The hard wheat has more gluten and is the best for breads whether its the red or the golden color. The red has the best taste to me! The hard could make your muffins or pancakes rubbery because of the gluten. I have only made bread with the wheat I have ground I think I will experiment and see what happens.

We put up quite a bit of all purpose flour back in the Y2K time in vacuum sealed bags and around the 2 year mark I considered it to be uneatable. Tasted bad. Any way I finally bought a grinder and have become very addicted to homemade wheat bread. The wheat berries have a very long shelf life.

I’ve been wondering if i should get the mylar bags myself…they look like a lot of trouble to seal up. I am considering the gamma lids for a few buckets like the ones I will be eating out of for easy access.

Great shipping from Emergency Essentials I will have to check them out.

I bought powdered eggs from honeyville and I finally popped some open to try….YUCK!!! I think I followed the directions on the can right for making scrambled eggs but they came out grainy nothing even remotely like an egg.

Could someone share with me how you make scrambled eggs with these.

Also how do you tell the date on the eggs? I wondered if they were old. There is a date of 2006 on the can. Is that the date it was canned or the date it expires? IF thats the date it expires the self life just got a lot shorter.

Thanks!

need more food - my understanding on the powdered eggs from Honeyville is that they have a shelf life of 5–10 years unopened and 1 year after opening. I have only used mine for cooking purposes, so I can’t help you on the scrambled eggs thing - but if Hillbilly Bill is listening, I think he can advise you on that. I have found the eggs to be wonderful in baked goods. I made muffins with them yesterday for breakfast and my kids commented that they were better than usual.

need more food – at 08:05 all you really need to seal the mylar bags is a piece of wood (or something with a hard straight edge like the edge of a piece of wood) and an iron.

Once the food is in the bag, take the top of the bag and pull it to one side of the bucket, lay a piece of wood across the bucket, then lay the mylar bag over the wood, smooth it out so it’s flat, then run an iron either along the EDGE of the wood OR just iron on the FLAT side of the wood (makes a wider seal). Either way, that’s all the tools you’ll need.

silversage – at 17:11 & Watching in Texas – at 17:57

We talked to the ins Co. But we have a 2500.00 deductable as we recently raised it to keep the premiums down- being on Cape Cod- there are few companies that will insure houses because of all the storms and after Katrina they jacked it up a ton on the off chance that we actually ever get a real hurricane here. (So if we don’t get one- shouldn’t we get a rebate?) It doesn’t cover that sort of contents- just catastrophic isues. But they are taking the claim and going to try to find what went wrong and try to get compensation from the manufacturer of the part that malfunctioned. Unless Sears wants to take care of things.

- The ins adjuster who came to look at the damage asked how I could know almost to the penny- what was in my freezer- so I whipped out a print-out of my inventories and showed him. Hey-If you run 2 freezers and 3 pantries- you have to keep track.- then we got into- why all that food? I said that I was trying to be prepared for the hurricane the insurance comapny thinks we’re going to get- he laughed. I didn’t go into details- just said- really-we just don’t want to be caught with our pants down when TSHTF no matter what kind of shit it is, and also hubby is a builder and there’s been years where he had little work in the winter and we lived on what I’d stored up, mentioned the enormous amounts of $ I’d saved both because I had the supplies on hand for less $ than if I ran out to the store to get them for a recipe I’d decided to make, and that staying out of the stores keeps you from making impulse buys. He asked me to teach his wife how to shop!!

I think this will take quite a while to straighten out and in the mean time I’m going crazy because there’s stuff on sale and I have no where to put it!!

Figuring on averages, and using Dr. Dave’s suggestions, I calulated the approxamated BMR needs for our family and come up with between 13,000 and 15,000 calories per day for the 7 of us … assuming that heavy manual labor is at a minimum or at least a shared workload.

Since I think 13,000 may be a little too conservative I’m going with the 15,000 total.

At 15,000 per day that would mean that for a three-month supply our family would need 1,350,000 calories. For six months we would need 2,700,000 and for a year we would need over 5 million calories.

Just to see how this works out with what I’ve already stocked, I’m going to have to do a bit of investigating … how many calories per can, jar, bag, etc.

That is bare minimum.

need more food – at 08:12

WIT is right about the storage life, you have at least a year before the can you opened expires, and unopened cans last 5–10 years depending on storage conditions (dry and cool work best).

While this product is wonderful for baking, you can’t expect to mix some up and have it taste just like fresh eggs. My experience is that you can make omelets and such, the more ingredients (meat, veggies, cheese) you add to the egg mix the better they will taste. For now, we continue to buy fresh eggs, just a lot less since we use the Honeyville for any situation where the eggs are part of a mix, (i.e. muffins, brownies, cakes, etc.). I truly love always having eggs on hand for those situations.

I’m not a walmart shopper.I have been to my local wally world just a handful of times.Even tho we are pretty much check to check people I just can’t get over all the issues ie. employee treatment,what it has done to manufacturing in USA,What it has done to small business,all those things just get under my skin and I vote with my bucks.So I was less than thrilled when I heard about a new walmart superstore going into my town.Then I heard we were also going to have a Walmart distrubution center here.It hit me like a ton of bricks yesterday,This could be really good for my town if tshtf.I guess it is time to rethink my feelings about wally world.

Cinda – at 10:07

I tried to google some good news about Sears to see if there was any precendece out there but only came up with bad news. Which doesn’t bode well, since all my appliances are from Sears. If you have the time keep us updated. We’ve actually started doing our own repairs on our Sears appliances cause it’s too expensive to call in service people that aren’t well trained. If it will make you feel better I can go down and kick them in the pants since the headquarters are right down the road from me (literally)!!

I guess we should start canning our meat. I’ve been putting that off cause I’ve never done it before, but ….. and there are some good sales going on. Guess I’ll wonder over to the canning thread……..

Hillbilly Bill – at 10:56 and need more food – at 08:12

Boy howdy do you have that right. Those powdered eggs make excellent pancakes, waffles, muffins, biscuits, etc. They make pretty good breakfast/brunch casseroles … where you mix in meats, veggies, etc.

The only way that I’ve gotten the family unit to eat them as a stand alone item is to use them in like a breakfast burrito with lots of add ons like cheese, bacon bits, etc.

They aren’t horrible in our opinion … we prefer our scrambled eggs on the dry side anyway … but fresh is just naturally better.

What I’m going to miss is hard-boiled eggs. I use them a lot and don’t think having a big jar of pickled eggs will really cut it. Not my thing.

Malachi – at 11:01

If you think about it, people said the same thing when Ford made the assembly line manufactruing popular. “What is going to happen to all the artisans?!” Etc.

Well, its true … but change in one form or another is part of progress. So long as we follow the laws on the books and don’t allow a monopoly to exist then what is happening … big warehouse stores vs. mom-and-pop run stores … is simply part of the changing economy of the world.

Doesn’t mean we have to like all the elements of the change.

My dad was fond of repeating the old adage that the only constant in this life is change.

need more food – at 08:12 I agree with you that the dried eggs are yucky scrambled. I’ve tried mixing them with milk, adding spices, but still don’t like them. Hubby says they’re fine. Go figure. They do work very well in baking, making pancakes, french toast, etc., and I like the long shelf life. I figure that if H5N1 hits the poultry industry, it may be a while before “safe” fresh eggs are available.

If I lived in a rural area instead of in town, I’d be buying two little goats (does, likely Nigerian Dwarf or African Pygmy) for milk and cheese, and a couple of chickens or Khaki Campbell ducks for eggs, and I’d be building bird flu proof housing for them. I’m wishing right now that I had less house and more land (securely fenced).

InKy – at 12:06

Be careful what you wish for!

Just arranged for my goat to be bred within a few weeks.I got rid of my nice little flock of layers in the spring.I didn’t have a proper coop and just was sick of poo all over the yard.Lately I am rethinking that decision,wishing I had just done the work to get them enclosed.May try to do that yet this fall as my grainery said they can order the chicks anytime and I could also check the livestock auctions.

silversage — canning meat is not hard at all! It is a bit time consuming, Well OK, a LOT time consuming, actually. But I learned how to do it easily and you can too! (-:

Cinda at 10:07 - ah, yes, the lovely deductible. I still remember the year (hubby is self-insured and we have had some horrible “coverage”) that our medical deductible was $5,000 per person and then it only paid 50% until $10,000, then only 70% until $15,000. Naturally during that year we were regular customers at the hospital.

Proving that I do remember what the thread topic was;-), I have spent as much time as I can rotating canned and packaged foods and taking inventory. I have so far made two important discoveries.

1. I have not always been vigilant in checking expiration dates.

2. February must have been a really high profit month for my local retailers!! I had a major meltdown in February.

“I had a major meltdown in February.”

Me too. While there are only a few canned goods in our house dated 1/06, it is going to be a LONG time before all of the 2/06 cans are consumed. Luckily the expy dates are well into 07.

need more food – at 14:34

WOW! What a deal on your wheatberries. 200 lbs for $29.00==$0.14/lb.

My health food store sells red winter wheat for $0.59 or 0.79/lb.

Do you live in Virginia/Maryland by any chance??

I just ordered some live Spirulina (a blue green algae). Not great eating but it does have the highest nutritional value of any single natural material and one of the highest protein yields. I thought about goats, rabbits, trout and such, but this is so much cleaner and easier for me here. I will be trying to grow it (patterned after the NASA space growing food project and the work for remote African villages). It is an experiment. Ok it is a crazy idea, but if it works I will be ready for TEOTWAWKI. I will let you know how it goes- that is if I can get the aluminum foil hat off.

DennisC – at 12:56

I understand that after you get used to the color and the taste and the texture, it’s not half bad…

Silversage - I hear you- I have canned meat in the past- but not much. So I too will be devoting more time to that. It’s not hard- but it is time consuming cause you can’t just put the canner on and walk away- you have to listen for the occasional jiggle. The last “meat” item I canned was chile and somehow I must have over heated it though the weight wasn’t jiggling constantly- and lost quite a bit of the liquid content of the jars. I tastes great, but its seriously thick! in the past I did some chicken and venison in gravy to put over rice or with mashed or use as a base for pot pies. Hubby and Daughter like that so I guess I’ll be doing more of it now.

smitty – at 12:56 - WOW! What a deal on your wheatberries. 200 lbs for $29.00==$0.14/lb.

Hi Smitty, I’m here in Texas, I posted a little later that my grain was actually twice that!!! $58 dollars, but still a good deal.

And Dr Dave gave me all those good ideas for figuring out how many calories I needed and I goofed on the cost of my grain…guess I will stick to my make-a-menu-for-30days-and buy it X’s 3! And since I could lose a little I think I’m getting plenty in the calorie department!!!

Well darn about the scrambled eggs! I am going to have to rethink that. I definitely have plenty for baking!

What you should do is use the camping foods for your scrambled eggs — the Mountain House with ham & eggs or something like that — much better!

Today’s prep purchases:
20 pounds of dry pinto beans
25 pounds rice
Total 45,360 Kcals

Info. from the can label on Honeyville Powdered Whole Eggs:

Storage:

Dry pack Whole Eggs may be stored in original sealed*oxygen-free cans indefinitely. (Recommendation 10–15 years) *All Honeyville family preparedness products are dry packed using oxygen absosrbing packets which have been found safe and effective in eliminating oxygen in a sealed #10 cans providing ideal conditions for long-term storage.’‘

Thanks Okbirdwatcher - that’s even better than my estimate of 5–10 years. And one year after opening is not bad either!

notice the can of Honeyville Powdered Whole Eggs has (170 x 35= ) 5950 calories. About 3 days worth of calories for about $11.

I don’t remember my can of honeyville eggs having a oxygen absorbing pack. I’ll have to pay attention next time I open one. I’ve used mine in baking like everyone else does, I’ve also tried it scrambled and in fried rice. I think the best way to make them plain is use high heat for quick cooking. I made my in a wok over high gas heat.

I received my canned butter today. I checked the cans as the company suggested for damage in shipping. Only one was dented, so I’ll be opening it soon to try it out.

I also picked up my water filter from REI. It’s small and portable. The filters are small too, so they’ll be easy to store or put into a BOB.

Managed to freak out my children today when the civil defense sirens went off. Yelling for everyone to get to the basement. Reminds me, I was going to tie a can opener to one of the shelving units….all that food and no opener in the basement, lol!! I managed to find the weather channel on my crank radio although it had a lot of static. When the storm finally past we had the biggest rainbow I’ve ever seen.

All in all, a pretty good day!

oh, and yesterday I planted two apple trees, got extra keys made for my children and filled a extra script for zithromax!

Hillbilly Bill at 12:13 - No worries about wish fulfillment gone awry. I’ll be lucky to hang on to what I’ve got!

InKy – at 21:12

Won’t we all….

New to this group, and…have been stocking for months

I have been reading your posts over the last couple of days, and instead of just pulling out the valuable info (I really liked the link to the propane emergency generators) I wanted to say HI and let you know that I am feeling much better, maybe not as crazy (at least not more crazy than everybody else here—no offense!)and lonely after knowing I am not the only one out there (in the CO Rockies and the rest of the world) preparing for the BirdFlu. So, thank God, or someone else (depending on your spiritual orientation)for this site!!!

Here is my small contribution for today (might have already been posted): when the water gets short and you don’t want to keep “it” in (this is the best deal I found): http://simplerlife.com/wagsanbagkit.html

need more food 16:11

Would you feel comfortable telling us where in Texas?

orange-brown – at 22:03

Welcome! Glad you came out of the darkness to join us — yep, we’re crazy….crazy enough to believe something like this could actually happen.

I’ve seen those wagbags advertised….that might be just the thing for BOB use. Thanks!

Welcome, newcomers!

Thanks to everybody who has provided info and links… I have bookmarked this thread to come back to later today! I appreciate the info SO much!

Dr. Dave- I am so thankful you have brought up the topic of needed caloric intake. I am wondering- because the method you have mentioned is indeed the gold standard but may be too difficult or confusing for some people for various reasons, do you think there is a way to incorporate this type of information in another format? What I am thinking is in lines of the basic food groups, food guide pyramid, labels and examples of “visual” serving sizes. I have been concerned about this and have not done a good job conveying my concern on this website. Total caloric intake is without a doubt paramount, but balance and variety are also extremely important. If necessary food intake (essential total kcals) could be conveyed in terms of what’s a serving size per age group &/or specific need group, what are the choices I have to make necessary combinations to obtain optimal selections for optimal intake to create a “total” package of a “variety” of food items to “balance” the needed calories, and… how can I do this expediently and economically. This is important for several reasons, but a pressing reason that comes to me is if somebody had to do this rapidly. Thanks in advance for your consideration.

I apologise that I don’t have time to be more thoughtful in my posting today beccause there are so many awesome things on this thread! I just popped in today to check the swans feet ;) and to check the threads on these food storage preps! Again, I appreciate y’alls imput! We are trying to get our fall gardens ready today, so that’s why I am in such a rush.

Well, I am not it a good place right now when it comes to prepping. I had been actively prepping since March, and had about 4 months worth of food (maybe more) plus lots of other essentials. Then we decided to move, new house is about 50 miles away, and DH has FORBIDDEN me to buy another thing until we get settled! PLUS…we have actually dipped into the stock to help reduce it some and move less. Ugh…..Once we get settled in, I am gettng back on track again. Hope nothing major happens before then!!! (PS. I will have a lot of explaining to do when all our friends who are helping us move see my mini-grocery store in the basement! You should have seen the realtor’s face when she saw it…but she didn’t ask a thing!)

I had an inadvertant mini-prep via my birthday this week. I got three great things (hadn’t been expecting any, it was a nice surprise)…and honestly did lol when I realized how happy they made me.

A big 16q stock pot I’ve been wanting (Amazon has the 16Q Farberware pot, usually $150, on sale for $47.50 plus free s/h!)

A nifty Six in One safety device (which Amazon has for $25 but WalMart has for $18.82)…crank LED flashlight (1 or 5 lights) with strobe/signal option, 130 decibel siren, cell phone charger, and FM radio. (The sixth thing is an itty bitty compass in the handle.)

And a Crank Radio. When our neighborhood was hit by tornados in May and I spent the night in a tiny bathroom with four kids, dh, multiple animals, and no electricity, I realized that our weather alert monitor was great for, well, weather alerts, but that the little portable radio I had was too old to be useful. This should be a real step up there.

I’m at a budget dead-end, so for now I’m just continuing to reorganize and switch all the homeschool stuff to shelves in the garage so that I can fill the school closet with food. It’s proving to be a large task.

I recently restocked my supply of BreakFree, a cleaner/lubricant/protective for extreme conditions used by the U.S. Army. When I first started using this product about twenty years ago I remember being impressed by the Pentagon studies on how many days of constant salt spray firearms endured without rusting. It is great for all other metal applications and rusty nuts and bolts, etc. It is much better than any other lubricant on the market, (my opinion).

You can get it retail at Cabelas or other similar large outlets for sporting goods or buy it bulk online at www.natchezss.com

I have no association with the company other than a very satisfied multi-decade user.

It would be an excellent barter item. By the way, a rusty firearm is a “club”. : )

P.S. Do not HEAVILY lube your gun with such products and then load them with cartridges. Longterm (months or less) your ammo will degrade to the point that it will not ignite. Also you need to store your ammo separately from such solvents or heavily lubed guns in storage. You will experience the same problem. As an aside all ammo should be stored in airtight containers with dessicants added. Such ammo will be good for decades.

fellowTX – at 22:10

Granary Health Foods 1700 SSE Loop 323, Suite #304 Tyler, TX

The owner has a couple of stores in dallas, but I don’t have the info.

This reminds me to check my ammo. My husband kept it stored separate from the guns, and I haven’t even checked it out lately. Will stop by Walmarts and get the Six in one safety device.Thanks Petticoat Junction and Medical Maven. I read the preps thread to see if there is anything I feel worth doing that I haven’t done, as I am a minimalist in the way of prepping.Havent put anything away properly, waiting for a block of time and the will to organize and put it all in a prepper notebook for easy reference.

My father is updating the ammo for my sister and myself. We’re also adding different shotguns as “we’ve” (i.e. Dad) decided that we need the telltale sound of the pump. I prefer the other for loading but the sound on a pump is unmistakable. Otherwise, I’ve got some 15 year old .38 that I don’t feel comfortable with. So I need to replace that. My sister and I have different needs as she has small children. Both finally got our concealed carry permits after years of badgering from Dad. Now he has nothing left to badger me about and I’ve turned the tables on him! “Dad, did you get any rice? do you have cooking oil? Do you have a filter for the pool water? what about meds? did you get your meds?” Oh, this prepping thing has rewards that haven’t even been counted yet!

Stopped by the local wine shop to look for herbal based or elderbberry wine . (I got a bottle last Oct.) They didn’t have any. Since they had a young Frenchman pouring various vintages, with cheeses crackers, and rasbperry flavored chocolates I had a few different vintages from the Margeaux region. Not worth buying, but did leave with some Cherry Liquor, Heering. We used to call it Cherry Herring when I was a teen. Cherries are healthy. Will buy some Christmas Mead in November since its based on Honey. Have plenty of good red and white Flu Wine. Better than what they were giving out as samples.Lots of calories to go with my croisant and tuna.Saw the wife of our builder, while we chatted about her daughter in La Hoya, I wondered if I should say anything about bird flu. Thought no, she’ll just tell her husband, guess what that nut told me. In a long conversation I might bring it up if it fit into the conversation, but at the check out in a wine shop it didn’t seem right, even if its loaded to the gills with flu fighting wine.

Today’s prep purchases:
6 pack of SPAM, 6480 KCal. Exp date Aug 2009.
Vitamin D, 800 IU, 400 tabs. Exp date Feb 2009 (our Sam’s Club didn’t have it last week but now they do)

Both have been placed in the prep pantry, separate from our regular food.

I haven’t seen this resource mentioned (but admit that I haven’t read all past FluPrep postings). We got a good start on our food preps though the local LDS Family Cannery. We’re not LDS members — the cannery in our city is open to the public two days a week. They provide the containers (#10 cans or mylar bags), the contents, oxy packs, sealing equipment, storage boxes and labels. You do the actual canning, usually with 1 or 2 other people who happen to be there at the same time, supervised by an LDS supervisor. It’s a fun group activity with a couple of friends & older kids/teens. The prices are reasonable considering that the results are packaged for long storage. For #10 cans, the prices are white or red hard wheat ($1.99 for 5.8–6 lbs), pinto, black or white beans ($3.29-$4.20 for 5–5.3 lbs), potato pearls ($4.73 for 3.1 lbs), white rice ($2.66 for 5.7 lbs), macaroni ($2.79 for 3.4 lbs), dry onions ($6.60 for 2.8 lbs), dry carrots ($7.05 for 2.8 lbs), dry apple slices ($5.19 for 1.3 lbs), instant refried beans ($3.86 for 2.4 lbs), quick or regular oats ($1.86 for 2.8–3.2 lbs), sugar ($3.78 for 6.1 lbs), dry milk ($6.42 for 4.1 lbs). They also have fruit drink mix, vanilla & chocolate pudding mixes and cocoa mix. You can also get these in mylar bags, but I don’t have the prices for these. You can bring in your own dry food for canning (I canned some cornmeal & barley this way). I learned about the family cannery through an LDS friend.

We have a LDS Cannery far out in our county but I can never get a response from them and suspect they are “members only” for LDS Church members.

With all the hurricanes that our area has suffered over the last couple of years, I’m not surprised that they might be doing a fast expanding business. And, given the local population and that they are the only cannery for many miles around, not surprised that they probably restrict it to church members only. I’ve heard that many canneries around the country are like that. To find one that is open to the public is a great windfall. Congratulations.

re: the FM radio on the flashlight/safety device at 10:54…wow, I just cranked it up for the first time and it gets better reception than the radio on my kitchen window sill! And that was even without extending the antenna and while wandering all over the house.

I know it had multiple 5-star ratings on Amazon; to the extent that I’ve played around with it I would concur. I haven’t tried yet to see how long the power lasts (supposedly 30 sec of cranking gets 1 hr of power) or checked out the cell phone charger, but everything else has been well-done so far.

EnoughAlready:

I have nutritional target values for my family. For example, on a daily basis I want everyone to have at least 25 grams of fiber, at least 50 grams of protein, at least 11 calories of food per pound of personal body weight, and a multi-vitamin with minerals. This, however, is mere subsistence. If we are going to remain as active as we are now, these values must increase to 30–35 grams of fiber, 60–80 grams of protein, and 14–16 calories per pound of personal body weight. These are the values for which I am prepping.

Ultimately, if you can hit your fiber and protein goals each day without exceeding your recommended caloric intake, you should do just fine. (That is where a basal metabolic rate calculator and the USDA nutrition calculator come in handy.) With such a keen focus on fiber, protein, and total calories, I don’t have to worry much about carbohydrates or fats.

Dr. Dave and Enough - for protein I have stocked up on protein powders that I can mix into other foods for my kids. Actaully, by themselves they aren’t bad either but some are better than others. you get a lot of calories and protein in a reasonably small container that keeps a long time unopened.

EnoughAlready:

Sorry, but I forgot to mention the food sources. For long-term food storage, just about the best sources of protein and fiber will come from the most economical purchases, such as oats, peas, beans, lentils, rice, pasta, popcorn, and peanut butter. Supplement these items with canned tuna, canned chicken, olive oil, tomato products, powdered milk, multi-vitamins, and a whey-based protein powder and you can get very complete nutrition. My wife and I usually discover that after we have met our fiber and protein goals, we still have plenty of calories left over for junk food and snacks.

LauraB: You are right about the powders. I have a vegetarian athlete who mixes protein powder with Slim-Fast and milk. It would be a lot easier if he would simply eat a couple of ounces of meat every day, but this really helps with his amino acids. For training purposes his protein target is 90 grams per day, and that is hard to do without meat.

AlohaOR – at 15:07 do you know if Tualatin Valley Fire & Rescue has any plans for a pandemic and if they are providing any classes? I used to work for them before retiring and moving down here to the desert.

DennisC – at 12:56 - When you get your algae farm running, how about some recipes for algae?

Algae farm? No. Dried seaweed; guess I have room for more…

(sigh; note to my older ego:) Always Accept Any Help Carrying Heavy Things to the car.

Stock plenty of ibuprophen, (I add muscle pain patches to shopping list, and will assemble the thing I lugged, after my shoulder gets better.) (I hate having no health coverage.)

Medical Maven, BreakFree sounds better than WD 40, is it? ;-) Oh, and I was so thrilled to scored a (light) free metal garbage can to use for a burn barrel! (It even fit in my car -ha!)

Mari – at 18:48 will do. It may take me a month or so to get the system up and running. But I do expect to be trying some recipies to see how it works.

Gary Near Death Valley at 18:13 I haven’t heard of any TVF&R plans or classes, but I’ll check with someone who works with them.

I am watching a program on the seige of Leningrad during WWII. You could look at this as equivalent to an imposed quarantine of a large city. 350,OOO civilians starved to death.

Keep prepping folks.

I read over all the info provided on Mylar packaging. Walton certainly has everything you need to know about nearly everything! (Read up on all the wheat and other nutrient info and ran off copies to stick in the notebook I am compiling. For example, nutrient comparison of various grains, essential nutrients, foods high in zinc, RDA for zinc, RDA for Essential Amino Acids, RDA for Essential Fatty Acids… all found in about a one page format (each) on the Walton link. Whoever provided that link, thanks. That’s a really handy quick reference for my little notebook! (Kathy in Florida: we need to compare notebooks!!!! :)

About the storage containers: I think I understand it all. But--- here is my big I think I’ve got it --- can I just add dry ice to these buckets and have a LT storage bucket similar to doing the mylar thing? (I’m trying to get out of all that work… if I can.) If so, I put it in the bottom of the bucket then add the stuff? Is that right? There was a formula (that I downloades) that tells amount of dry ice per bucket size. If I need to do the mylar, I will. I am not gonna lie, I am trying to avoid any extra expense and work that I don’t have to do. However, I do want this stuff to last LT. Also… if I am adding dry ice, do I have to still put stuff in the freezer for however many days. That’s another thing. I am getting conflicting, or mixed, info on how long stuff has to be put in the freezer. Seems to have to do with density of the food. For instance, a 25 pound bag would need longer than a 5 pound bag. Right? And the time is anywhere from 3 days to 2 weeks. I understand the density issue… but is there anything else that effects time considerations? Thanks.

I think it would be neat, and nice, for you folks who have ideas about food sources outside the “box” to do a thread or something. DennisC always has such great ideas and other people usually add to what he says. I know I am interested in that kind of info. The Army survival manual has info. I hope I would never have to use this stuff, but who knows. Most people pretty much understand wild game… but maybe not, especially how to procure it… & “dress” it.

Ammo. Everybody in my house, except me, shoot guns. I don’t care that they have them, and I am glad that they DO have them. But… what do folks like me do if we need to protect self and property? I have taken some courses at my family members insistance. And, I have some fancy pepperspray gizmo. Surely, I am not the only person wondering about this?

Has anybody ever seen the, pickyourown.org website? You can find places near you, and has handy info!

Filled in a few holes yesterday. Super WalMart had a 11′ x 11′ blue tarp gazebo/cover for less than $15, including poles. It was the last one. I plan to put it up outside my masterbath door and block off the area so the dogs can go outside at night without getting in any infected bird poop. It’s small enough I can spot any dead birds that may be there. Come to think of it, I may get two or three more of them. I have the raised garden beds that will still get light from the sides at different types of day but protect them from birds and their droppings…at least better than nothing. I think we still have danger from bird infection in addition to the pandemic-by-airplane risk. I’m trying to think of all contingencies.

Also picked up two whistles, sterno, more dried mixes that Sam’s doesn’t carry, clothes pins, Kool Aid, and a bottle of wine.

EnoughAlready 10;17

I went through the same thought process…finally decided that it was better not to quit in the last 10 yards of the race and not pack everything up properly. Wouldn’t it be an unpleasant day to open preps and food unusable after all the time,effort and money put in to this point.

The Mylar bags are not difficult to seal with a hot iron. For me the tricky part was getting the oxygen absorbers in before they were used up by the atmosphere. I had to order more!!! to complete my processing. You need a helper.

I am having to reprocess some of my desicant also by heating it in the oven to restore the absorbtion capabilities since we have had a rain or two since the initial packing day.

Hope that helps in your decision making. Good Luck

Has anyone bought anything at save a lot? I bought 10 cans of corn for .37 each. beans for .35 each and carrots for .40 something. I thought that it was such a great deal. afterwords I went to a Superwalmart and felt like I was really going high class.

Today is my organizing and inventory day. All the typical week-end chores were completed Friday evening and yesterday as we held an “autumn” party at our house last night with 10 of our closest friends. We danced, talked, ate, dranked and laughed well into the wee-hours of the morning.

I ignored the mess of the spilled drinks, sticky counters, and dirty dishes to just enjoy their company …. that probably was my best prep of all this past week … bonding time with good friends.

ah yes.. we “dranked”

way too much obviously for me to have correct grammar this afternoon! :-)

Before you stock up on anything because its cheap, taste one. Even if you have to go out of the store and open it up for a sampling, its better to know in advance that something is unappetizing to you. Cheaper brands can be just as good as name brands, but sometimes they aren’t.A lot of the stores I frequent often put out samples of this or that. A taste sometimes is good, the second of the same isn’t quite as tasty. And a full portion is not all that good.

Any gardeners out there? Walmart is having end of the season clearance on their bagged goods… potting soil, compost, topsoil, mulch, etc. Most marked down by 50–80%. If you can use any of this stuff, get it now before it disappears. The guy in that department told me they had to have it all gone within about a week.

no name – at 13:22

okay, more questions. If using a vacuum sealing system, like food saver, is it still best to utilize the mylar as well? (Put the stuff in vacuum sealer bags, then into mylar, in the buckets?) Do I use dry ice with mylar?

I really appreciate your help. I’ve got printed pages here, trying to figure this out! You are right, I don’t want to loose this stuff! Thank you so much!

Thanks Kim! I’m working on my fall gardens now! I dug some kiddie swimming pools out of peoples trash & plan on making container gardens! Going in the morning! Hope the sale is here, too! (Probably is… they’re alteady putting up X-mas stuff!)

ladybug= save-a-lot is our regular store. we have bought there for over 10 years now.-some times they have brand names for sale at a discount price. their old fashioned oats are very good and much cheaper than the walmart stuff. Look in the freezer section and you’ll find frozen turkey ( 1 pound round packages) for 79 cents-we use it with hamburger helper , also the save a lot brand.They currently have coffee for sale at 3.00 a can, great deal.

anyone find goggles that fit with a half-face respirator? i regret to have put-off this essential piece of PPE.

otherwise, i bought 13 large bottles of alcohol hand scrub at the dollar store this week. wow, did those things fly off the shelves. i grabbed the last ones.

also scored some selenium and lomatium dissectum.

where can i find the oral rehydration sachets someone’d mentioned here?

the more i prep the more i’m concerned about the security of them. know what i mean?

always more to be done.

Posie,

Rather than buying goggles, which may fog up, Google for the full-size face shields. You wear them like a head band.

Ladybug- Ive shopped at Save-a-lot for years and have been really pleased with it. (Its one of only two groceries in my town so…..) In their veggies they have cans of “Chili hot beans” canned beans in a moderatly spicy sauce. Three or four cans of those (they’re small cans)and some tvp ( or a pound of ground beef) makes a really good quick chili. My kids love it over taco chips with a little cheese on top.

MAjor prep this week-trying to dry out after massive rain! A few weeks ago I bought dh a crank radio/flashlight for his birthday. We certainly had the chance to try them out this last weekend! Like Petticoat Junction in an above post, we found the crank radio had excellent reception-better than our NOAH radio.

Canning end-o season tomatos for sphegetti sauce, and dehydrating green peppers.

Today’s prep will be a round of house cleaning. With a 2 year old in the house it can be a real mess. <grin>

Also bought a couple more storage tubs and plan on putting away some more preps for longer term storage.

In the Chicago suburbs, CVS drug stores have 14.75 ounce cans of Bumble Bee branch salmon for $1. Walgreens drug stores have 14.75 ounce cans of Chicken of the Sea brand salmon for $1. This places canned salmon in the same cost per ounce range as tuna. Both brands have tapered side walls that make stacking easy, and both brands show expiration dates of 2011. We tried them both last night as salmon salad sandwiches. It was good enough to have again for breakfast this morning. Local limits will apply (and a membership card at CVS), so you will need multiple trips.

That salmon also works really well in salmon croquettes. <grin> I’ve made them a few times while camping. I have a couple in the house that are NOT really tuna/salmon fanatics; however it is a good prep to have when budget is limited and/or food choices are limited.

EnoughAlready 00:01

I have a food saver quasi-latest model (year old, large size), tried sealing a mylar bag in it. No success. It didn’t remove air like it does in the plastic food saver bag and the heat seal across the top was inadequate. I only tried one bag. Practice may help but I abandon the process.

My big advice is to find small canning jars to put excess oxygen absorbers while you seal your bags so they don’t lose their capacity. The only hard part of the exercise from my point of view.

I can’t remember if this has been posted anywhere: http://www.slate.com/id/2148772/entry/2148778/

Its an article posted by “The Survivalist.” Don’t let the name put you off … he isn’t a crack pot and the writing is pretty good. Not terribly in-depth, but for those that might be trying to find something use-friendly to share with non-prepper friends its isn’t a bad read at all.

All printed out, the series is 23 pages long with a forward on the printable version that isn’t initially apparent in the online version. It covers a lot more than avian flu … but the link above takes you to the avian flu section.

Oh, forgot to mention, fluwiki is mentioned as a resource in the above article.

I know that some people have mentioned that they plan to store (or are storing) preps in a rented storage unit. I thought this article might be of some interest to those folks. (snip below)

LENEXA, Kan. — The managers of rental storage units in Lenexa will be required to maintain a register of people who use the units, and police will be given complete access to the list.

The Lenexa City Council approved the requirement at its meeting last week, in an effort to help police stop crimes in storage units — such as methamphetamine labs — or to find stolen goods in the units.

The register will include each renter’s home address, phone number and a copy of a driver’s license or other reliable identification.

http://www.thekansascitychannel.com/news/9928232/detail.html

The other thing about storage units is that they often have rules that prohibit the storage of food in them.

They can also be pest ridden rat traps.

Case in point: some landlords in some states are required by law to store goods that are left behind by tenants for “x” amount of time before they can dispose of them. It doesn’t matter whether the tenant left after the lease ended naturally, because of an eviction, or because they abandoned the unit.

Landlords usually use the storage facilities to store things rather than take them back to their place of business.

You don’t want to KNOW some of the things that we’ve found after a tenent has moved out. Nasty. And if there are bugs in the unit there are going to be bugs in things taken out of the unit. If those things are then stored in a storage facility there are going to be bugs in the storage facility and if even one tenant of the storage facility has bugs then you can bet all the tenants of the storage facility will eventually have bugs.

I just would not trust food and mass paper products to a storage facility, not even an environmentally controlled one … you just can’t control what is in your “neighbor’s” locker.

And in the event of a pandemic I sure wouldn’t want to be brining home bugs in my preps.

funny someone should mention preps in storage space. i have access to such a space and just spent the afternoon moving some preps into it. the preps have to be disguised so as to look like just a bunch of junk. i don’t wanna put all my eggs in one basket by keeping all foods in the house, but it does make me somewhat uneasy about having a stash in a place other people might somehow gain access to. ah, whatta ya gonna do!?

about the goggles/mask. the full-face shield headband thing, Dr. Dave, thanks for the tip. however, won’t those only protect from splash/droplets and shouldn’t i still be concerned with possible smaller/aerosol-like particles floating in me eyes? today i found some quality anti-fog swim goggles for adults and children for $10.-$15. at Dick’s hardware which look like they’d be compatible with a half-face, but figured i’d explore the concept a bit more before buying.

relatively good news this morning when i explained to my mother once again about pandemic risk. she’s taking it seriously and says my step-father’s even visiting Sam’s Club now. this is good. she’s also approaching the dentist she’s worked with for 20+yrs (who also takes this seriously) in hopes of obtaining some prescriptions. i told her she should pursue the Pneumovax and not to tell people she’s personally got food put aside.

it’s true that dropping the “grandchildren” word with respect to inspiring potential new preppers proves fantastically effective. ; )

also today scored more rechargeable batteries, a combo heater/cooker (is it absolutely true propane can’t be used inside…even with a window slightly open? i know so little about fuel), and a shake and go LED flashlight. am dehydrating apples tonite or tomorrow.

cheers.

oh the rechargeable batteries go with my solar charger. this little thing is just so cool.

Am stocking up on Lindts chocolate bars. Today dark with orange peel. Felt a little melancholy thinking about someone who died on 9–11, was thinking to stop by a memorial and put a fragrant carnation there. We had lost a lot of people in our area and have a number of memorials. Anyway chocolate, like sunshine and balmy breezes lift the spirit if you feel a bit low in spirits.Every day I seem to find one thing to put aside. When I finally use it that day will come rushing back in memory.

Aaaaahhhh chocolate…I am planning on hitting the Halloween candy sales to fill that prep.

LauraB – at 17:00

I’ve included some protein powder in large containers in my preps, too. My carnivore dh, sons, and grandson bodies will go into shock when deprived of their food of choice. Likewise, I am concerned about the younger grandkids getting enough protein. Which is why I have stocked up on those dehydrated eggs. Egg protein is the “gold standard” on which all protein is measured against. I’ve also got dozens frozen. At this point I haven’t figured out how to cook all this stuff, but that’s the least of my worries. First things first. And, first is getting this stuff and securing it in proper containers. As much cooking as I have under my belt, I know I will be able to figure that part out. I’m trying really hard to pack in nutritionally dense foods! And… some just plain cheap tummy filling stuff, too!

no name – at 10:48

I hadn’t thought about using the vacuum sealer to close the mylar. Too bad it didn’t work. What I meant was if I vacuum seal… do I still have to put it in the mylar for optimal protection. And, do I vacuum seal then put it into the mylar and seal the mylar? And… then, I wouldn’t have to use the O2 absorbers? I just want to make sure I understand this before I go do something and find out I did it wrong. I am going tomorrow to try to find those lid seals. And… I’m worried those gamma seals won’t work on the buckets I have… there’s no thread on the buckets. I don’t have the gamma seals/lids so I don’t really know what they are actually like. I have made 2 trips to the store for the vacuum sealer… they are out. Suppose to be getting more in any day (or night.) If I put all my dehydrated stuff in that, then I wouldn’t need O2 absorbers? I’m thinking about dumping them out of the containers and into the vacuum bags. Then I could store them in a big bucket. Thanks for all the advice and info! I really appreciate it… and you walking me through this. My husband said he’d help me do the mylar bag stuff. Maybe he can figure it out. I sure don’t wanna loose this stuff.

Got a wee bit of birthday money so you know it was going to go to preps, lol. I got a Texas atlas & gazetteer (very detailed maps of the entire state…nearly 200 pgs!) for $13 at Sam’s. I’ve wanted one ever since watching the gridlock out of Houston with Hurricane Rita last fall.

Then I headed off to WalMart to finally pick up one of those Swiss Gear rechargeable lanterns. I’ve been wandering by and staring at every time I go to the store. Popped that box into my cart with a little thrill and then looked over one spot…and saw a lone Brinkmann solar lantern!

I had asked a mgr specifically about the Brinkmann’s (Brinkmenn? lol) a few weeks ago and was brushed off rather gruffly that they’d never had such things. It was $12 more than the SG one, took me over my budget, but it was the only one I’ve *ever* seen. I contemplated it for a few minutes but ultimately figured they have had multiples of the SG’s in stock every time (will try to pick one up next month if I can) so went with the Brinkmann. And I do like that solar option!

I noticed that my little tomato plants have flowers on them! I may have tomatoes someday!

EnoughAlready – at 00:40

Someone correct me if I’m wrong but I’ve been looking at the gamma lids on emergency essentials site and it looks like they snap onto any 5 gal bucket with a 12 inch diameter and have a twist off inner circle lid. I was also wondering if they would work for the buckets I have that came with no lids.

Silversage, there is no universal lid for 5 gallon pails, but if you can read the name of the manufacturer off the bottom, you should be able to quickly Google up someone who can sell you lids to fit.

Petticoat Junction-Happy Birthday! My birthday is later this week and I recieved a really wonderful present yesterday- A Mennonite Cookbook-“Simply in Season” From the creators of the “More with Less cookbook” Which I love so much my copy is falling apart. I highly recommend the “More with Less” cookbook- a sound book on cooking with basic foods and they taste really good. I’m sure I’m going to love “Simply in Season” as well.

Prep today- more dehydrating stuff, and more trying to dry out the basement. Good news-No preps were damaged! hurray!

Petticoat Junction-Happy Birthday from me too!

Happy Birthday Petticoat Junction. My birthday gift. Google up Astrodeinst in Switzerland and get a free astrology chart. They will want your date of birth, time, place. Needn’t give your real name. Its a lot of fun and very accurate about people. I do it when I get involved with anyone. Saves time as you see the real person underneath.Again, wishing you a safe and healthy year ahead.

Happy Birthday Petticoat Junction. My birthday gift. Google up Astrodeinst in Switzerland and get a free astrology chart. They will want your date of birth, time, place. Needn’t give your real name. Its a lot of fun and very accurate about people. I do it when I get involved with anyone. Saves time as you see the real person underneath.Again, wishing you a safe and healthy year ahead.

Sorry, it is Astrodienst. Very interesting for analysis of personalities.

where is my good fairy when I need em, LOL. just sitting here noticing that I have kleenex stacked to the ceiling , need to clean out this cabinet over my head and get the kleenex put away I reckon. but then it’s the same thing in my bedroom, got deoderant and lady stuff stacked to the ceiling on the dresser. need to clean out some drawers and get stuff put away, but then don’t even think of the kitchen cabinets and what’s stacked on them cause I just went to Sam’s Club and did some shopping and then the UPS man just delivered a big box so gotta find somewhere for all of this. at a time like this I feel so fortunate, I know there are people out there that don’t have what I have been blessed with , and yea worked hard for and I did without lots to get this too. but it’s times like this that I wish I could just shaked everyone till their teeth rattled and wake them up, and tell them to get busy. If I can do it I know everyone can. I actually live on ten thousand dollars a year. and I am blessed. and sorry if I sound smug don’t wanna do that. I’m just sayin thanks for what I have and now get busy. LOLOLOL.

silversage at 8:37 the gamma lids will fit your 5 gal buckets. I bought my 5 gal buckets without lids, local here where I live and I ordered the gamma lids from Emergency Essentials, everything fit fine.

On mylar and consumer vacuum sealers.

Consumer vacuum sealers ie: FoodSaver use a special bag with channels in the interior weave to draw the vacuum.

Mylar bags don’t.

Thus the reason it won’t seal.

A commercial vacuum sealer would work, but it’s a tad expensive.

Just use an iron.

I check the Oberto site daily. They make and sell jerky, sausage sticks, etc. that are sold nationally in grocery stores and from time to time have super online deals, especially in the Factory Ends and Pieces section found at http://tinyurl.com/okrv9. After a couple of months of finding nothing interesting I just discovered that a new selection of bargains has been added. Best finds: a 16 0z. bag of Soft and Tender Beef Jerky for just $3.99 or 3/$10 and a 16 oz. bag of Smoked Sausage Stick ends for $2.99. The best deals tend to sell out very quickly so I’ll be placing an order after I wake up in the morning. I also regularly look at the Factory Select and Closeout & Overstock sections but didn’t see anything new this evening.

Wrenna – at 03:40
That is a good site, thanks. I couldn’t help but notice, though, that they don’t do very well with quantity discounts:
Oberto Coctktail Pep Sausage Stick Ends & Pieces
16 oz. bag
$3.00, 3/$10.00

EnoughAlready – at 10:17 Ammo. Everybody in my house, except me, shoot guns. I don’t care that they have them, and I am glad that they DO have them. But… what do folks like me do if we need to protect self and property? I have taken some courses at my family members insistance. And, I have some fancy pepperspray gizmo. Surely, I am not the only person wondering about this?

I am struggling with the same question: how to protect myself effectively without using guns? I live in the mountains, by myself, and my cabin is stocked to the ceiling ( I just built an elevated bed that allows for two layers of buckets to be stored underneath)….I bought the pepper spray years ago (for bears and mountain lions), but surely don’t have a clue at this point on how to react if/when people want to harm me. Female + lot’s of food = easy target??

I’d appreciate any ideas.

and, Dennis, I live in CO as well- we might be neighbours : )

orange-brown – at 08:43

I discovered years ago that attitude and determination count the most in a perilous situation. Deciding that you will NOT allow anyone to violate you or your property, and following through with the actions that will prevent that from happening are the most important things you can do. I’m not saying that you need to use a gun, but what I am saying is that whatever you decide to do to protect yourself, use it to your fullest advantage and never give up.

I once saw a 13 year old girl defeat a man over twice her size in an unsupervised match up after a martial arts class. She did not have superior skills, and she definitely took some really hard shots from him, but she just absolutely wouldn’t quit. When I asked her later how she kept going she said, “He was violating my space. I don’t allow anybody to do that.”

I have a Food Saver vacuum sealer and want to mention that my model has a ‘manual’ button that simply operates the heat sealer, not the vacuum part of the machine. I CAN reseal bags like potato chip bags that don’t have the regular bag channels that you need for a vacuum seal. And you can use the manual button over and over again………meaning that you might could throw some oxy absorbers into a mylar bag (if you have a bag with a small enough opening to fit within the outer edges of the heat strip in the machine) and then use the manual button 2–3 times in a row without moving the bag, to get the mylar hot enough to seal. I don’t know for sure it would work, and I don’t want to try it on mine — I can’t afford to replace it if I burned it up right now, but someone else might want to try it. As long as the heat seal evenly covers the entire length of the mylar bag, it might eventually sela it.

orange-brown, look at this thread to get some ideas, don’t let the title fool you, http://tinyurl.com/pqfpk

Hillbilly Bill – at 08:57 thanks for the reminder…I have been taking martial arts classes for years in my twenties. When you described the situation I could feel that intuitive and “programmed” determination and strength in my body. The inner voice that has been coming up in threatening situations is saying “Don’t f*** with me!!” I almost exclusively trained with guys and they were certainly not easy on me. So, I agree and I am still not sure what kind of a weapon to use other than my inner strength.

Chesapeake – at 09:01 THANK YOU…I will check it out after work…have to run

orange-brown – at 08:43

“In the mountains” - I too live in the mountains. I have opted for not having all my supplies in one place and inside. Some are buried in well-sealed barrels/buckets in “the back yard” and my back yard is BIG. Even if someone/group/agency came and overpowered me, my “hidden supplies” would remain intact since “they” neither would neither know they existed nor where they where. It is more work, but it is an alternative to thinking that you would try to defeat a well-armed group. Realize that if it really gets that bad (I have serious doubts), that single attackers will die quickly and only groups will remain. A single remote person will have difficulty defending against a group by force- your best weapon is fore thought, planning, preparation, and always have an “ace in the hole”.

orange-brown -

I have heard that if you use pepper spray indoors, you could end up suffering it’s effects too. I assume it is therefore only useful to use outdoors. For indoor use, others have suggested using something like wasp spray instead.

Also, if someone (or a group) surprises you, but simply comes to rob you of food, if a good deal of your food is hidden, they can’t get it all. One idea is to place a line of cans in the back of every drawer, and then put clothes in front of them. Make a couple of pieces of hollow furniture (like a coffee table base, etc) and place food inside. If you have any empty boxes like for cat litter or computer paper, you could put food inside, and then stack full boxes around them. Perhaps keep some food in the trunk of your car. Do you have an attic where you can hide some? Also, an inventory would be a must with locations noted.

Botulism was brought up along the lines of canning butter earlier. First off if the spores have started growing they are going to off gas and the lid will pop up. Duh, don’t eat it if the lid is popped up that’s why its there in the first place. Second you can safely can butter using a pressure cooker. Or third just melt it before you go to use it and boil it for 20 mins to destroy any toxins that have been produced. Oil heats well over the boiling point of water so I wouldn’t worry about it too much. Now other foods that’s a different story. Here’s the link with this info from the agre dept of miss state University http://tinyurl.com/rkbc9

here is a better link on botulism and how to destroy its various forms

http://tinyurl.com/qu32z

Kathy in FL at 11:20: “I just don’t feel completely comfortable with some of the homeopathic suggestions out there as I don’t know how my kids would react to some of the herbs and such or even how to dose the stuff.”

Hi Kathy. Homeopathic is not the same as herbal. The difference is in how they are prepared. There is no material dose in a homeopathic remedy so no concern about how your kids would react to it. Also, no reason you can’t take a homeopathic remedy at the same time as any other treatment of your choice, provided there is a period of at least 15 minutes (30 would be better) before and after the remedy when you have taken nothing else (a remedy is best taken on a “neutral” mouth.) So, you wouldn’t be choosing homeopathic treatment instead of something else.

Since the effective remedy depends entirely on the symptoms, the easiest way is to try one that is intended for the earliest symptoms. Oscillococcinum is a readily available choice and the one I carry in my wallet.

Oscillo comes in small boxes containing tubes of pellets. Each tube is supposed to be a dose but is more than you really need (ok, though, if you take it all at once). My suggestion is to take it as a “wet dose”. Start with a fresh bottle of spring or distilled water. Pour out 1/4 or more of the water (enough so when you shake it you can get a good head). Add a few pellets. The key step is now vigorously shaking the bottle (e.g., by banging it against your palm) a bunch of times, say 20 or more. One dose is a sip (about a teaspoon’s worth). You MUST vigorously agitate the bottle before any subsequent doses. That increasing the potency slightly and should prevent you from antidoting the previous dose if you take it too soon. You might dose once an hour or once every several hours. If there is noticeable improvement you must wait until it either stops or regresses before dosing further. (What you are doing with the remedy is kickstarting your body’s natural ability to fight the disease.)

More finesse can be had by stocking up on other likely homeopathic remedies, but Oscillo is a good starter remedy for someone not familiar with homeopathy. Less to understand.

I’m-workin’-on-it – at 08:59

I finally got my vacuum sealer yesterday! My daughter and I are going to monkey-around with it on Friday! Putting stuff up in it. I don’t have mylar bags yet. Even if I did… I’m not doing it if you say your not! You’re my master on this! (grasshopper respectfully says, “Thank you for all you do to help!”)

have no wish to get beyond the canned food stage of prepping. Don’t think the food pantry would accept it. Bought 12 bottle of Pellegrino mineral water on sale, just for varieties sake, as I think of water as my main prep along with light, candles and various flashlights and warmth, down quilts etc along with food. I have no desire to go into generators et all. Think I’ll mosey off to other things for a while, and check in on all you good and industrious preppers in a few days or a week. I like reading Flu Preps even if I’m not into it deeply, the hints are wonderful. Will stop by CVS and see if any canned Salmon is left.Warm regards and respect from a born grasshopper.

Chesapeake – at 22:23

whew! (about the gamma lids!) I’ve been sweating that, what a relief! & thanks for the link to the prevent home invasions thread.

orange-brown – at 08:43

Do you feel better yet? I feel better, but still… well… armed with hornet spray now, too! One class I took taught me how to use my keys and fingers or an object to poke somebody strategically. (Like in the eyes, juglar vein, groin & someplace else that I forgot… and it is the main sensitive spot.) Fortunately, at home, I have big dogs. That thread, talking about gangs looting, burning your house down, etc, kind of got me nervous.

DrDave- half my bucket lids do have those rubber things. I thought it was mold that I was gonna have to clean. They’re sitting outside the shed, waiting to be cleaned. I checked on them this morning for those rubber rings. Glad to know it is not mold, and what to look for! Thanks!

While on the subject of prepping - get your tetanus shot booster if you haven’t had one in more than 5 years. Went to ER with second degree burns on my hand this weekend and was told I needed a tetanus shot - had one last year since we are around horses a lot, so didn’t have to get it again. Definitely don’t want to die of tetanus during a pandemic!

Orange-brown and Dennis - I don’t live in CO, but want to - we’ve been going to CO in January for the past 10 years. Used to go to Winter Park, but lately to Keystone.

EnoughAlready,

If the lids have been sitting outside, I recommend that you remove the rubber rings so you can clean out the insects, arachnids, and fungi. After a thorough scrubbing and drying, the rings can be reinseted.

EA-13:43 When you start sealing here is a trick, I find that if you put a book or as I do a piece of wood under the bag it lifts it up and even with the machine more. AlsoI seal a little and stop and smooth the item in the bag a little and continue, that way I can get the bag flat, and they are eaiser to stack. If you have the cutter for the bags, I find that if I hold my left thumb on the top middle of the cutter top, it holds down and makes it eaiser to cutwith my right hand and about half way I switch hands cuts straight for me. Good luck

EnoughAlready – at 13:43 good point about the book or piece of wood underneath to make the stuff lay flatter, and remember that you don’t have to seal it to a point totally without air. I HAVE resealed potato chip bags (which is why I think it would work on smaller mylar bags with enough tweeking) and find it very useful for LOTS of things. Mine has a clear plastic piece of tubing with a fitting on one end that then fits into the top of other things so that it also works on other equipment like the canister sets, or a marinating pan, etc. I’ve vacuum sealed lettuce up in one of the large canisters & it’s lasted literally for WEEKS just as crisp as the day I brought it home!

I’ve just had a cloud lifted because after several months of worr ying about someone stealing my food I realized that the type of person who would threaten, rob, or be violent to get my food is the type of person who isn’t going to want to cook beans, rice or make bread from scratch. They will be hungry and/or thirsty therefore they will be in need of a quick fix. I’ve got Ramon Noodles for that purpose, it’s quick and I don’t want to eat it. Now another positive way of working this problem through is I’m a good cook; they are likely takeout/fastfood junkies; they’ll need me and my resources. If they want my help they need me. I know anyone can throw holes in this plan but I do feel better. I think most of us if we think this through can come up with 100 different ideas to prevent losing our preps; it is our mindset that needs to be open. What other things can we do besides using violence in return?

Just went to WALMART, to their packaged food isle. Right next to the Tuna Helper and Hamburger Helper, I bought the following: 1)10 - Betty Crocker Complete Meals, 5 servings for $2.89 ea. Different varieties. 2)10 - Banquet Homestyle Bakes, 6 servings for $3.29 ea. Different varieties.

These are complete meals. All you have to do is add water. Preparation time is 5 min. to 25 min., and can be cooked in a skillet, dutch oven, oven, or microwave, etc. NO EXPIRATION DATE is listed, Best to eat by 1 yr. or 2 yrs. No refrigeration needed until cooked. I used them to feed 57 scouts for a week this summer in 95 to 100 degree weather.

This represents 20 dinners for 5 people or 100 servings for $66.00 or $.66 per person/per meal.

Very good Little Kahuna – at 19:50, that’s one way of having something on hand for those folks Prepping Gal was referring to.

I’ve done no prepping for myself but have been reaching out to others who can convince others to help. This includes local newpapers, local officials, school board superintendents, public health directors, etc. I put together fact sheets, WHO Stats, Pandemic Awareness Week info, etc. My hope is if it gets even a smidge of press coverage or prompts some of the towns in my area to do something, my numb a$$ will all be worth it. Time to walk away from the computer!

Picked up a food saver vacuum sealer today. It was on sale for about 60% off. It’s nothing fancy, but I’m not into bells and whistles. The plan is to make meal packets, sort of homemade MRE’s that will need only hot water to reconstitute them, and seal them up so they can just be tossed into the BOBs if needed.

The kid asked, with trepidation in his voice, if I was planning on drying any more green beans. I said yes. He said he couldn’t stand the smell. I told the husband that the kid was really going to have problems when I dried the broccoli. The kid winced and said he would appreciate it if I dried the broccoli when he was dead.

DennisC – at 10:17 these mountain people :)Don’t you love it up here! I thought about digging some holes and hide some things….I better start soon, we got a foot of new snow the other day.

JV – at 10:50 thanks for the tip about the pepper spray, and I will check on the wasp spray.

EnoughAlready – at 14:08 nope, don’t really feel better, but I am fine with the uncertainty right now.

tjclaw1 – at 14:54 I love it out here, moved here six years ago from Germany. I would not want to live somewhere else. Whenever I can, I am in the backcountry, biking, climbing, skiing, hiking? The biking will come handy when the gas stations close down, and I know how to survive in the wilderness, if I really had to. I have a very strong sense that “something bad” will happen over this following year. I hope it is “only” the birdflu and not some crazy nuclear war (this might sound strange to some of you, but it has been a real concern of mine).

Some people may find this useful…. Honeyville 10% discount code until 10/03/06 is “fall2006″

http://www.honeyvillegrain.com/

orange-brown – at 23:28 Germany - I have a german foreign exchange student here this school year.

Snow already- If this thing goes pandemic- remember you can “top off” with some frozen goods and use the snow/ice.

I don’t know if this has been suggested over the last 22 editions of this thread … but if you have a septic system that reqires periodic pumping, you might consider getting it done sooner than later. I thought I could get through the winter, but found when I dug up the access port that we were very close to full. Sure don’t want to have an overflow with a house full of relatives sheltering in my place (SIMP)!!!

Merk manual or other good medical manual.

This is my first post so please be patient if I make some mistakes (been lurking twice a day for six months now and feel like I know you all) . Could anyone suggest a good child nbc enclosure? I have a 2 year old and a 1 year old. What are the best forms of protection for children this age? Are nbc enclosures appropiate for BF? If not, what would you suggest? Thank you.

Nuclear Biological Chemical enclosure? You’re talking a bomb shelter. Isolation for six months in such a small space would drive me insane. Google bomb shelter. I have in the past checked a few websites out of curiosity. They are pricy.

Oremus (does it mean “let’s pray?”), I was talking about those hoods for children (saw them at gas masks website) that protect the whole face and have a blower for air. The problem for small children is that you cannot put a N95 mask on them, what alternatives do I have If I have to go out of the house?

the best way to ensure that people dont come and take your preps is to make sure everyone around you is prepped.

It is real easy to say “I tried and noone listens” and then stop trying… “I will defend my preps!”… i did it for months.

But it is no answer. It is not easy to get others to prep. I have found by using a simple direct approach where you talk High CFR, killing the children, and no vax and its spreading - you may need to show CDC charts to back you up you can find then here - www.mipodcast.com/H5N1/Town_Meeting … they say “so what can we do?”… you say “the only thing you can do is make sure everyone is prepped to SIP for 8–12 weeks”. Like at the beach… when a big wave comes… you hold your breath and duck under it until it passes… then come up for air.

Its that simple. If they argue, then they obviously dont care if children die.

Cristina – at 01:09

Yes, Latin for, Let us pray.

You could probably cut mask smaller, and use duct tape to seal gaps. Get some swim goggles to keep them from touching their eyes.

Hello everyone! I found this small mention of a book for children in Woman’s Day Magazine under the heading, WORTH THE $$. The book’s title is Germs Are Not For Sharing, by Elizabeth Verdick. The description says, “it may be the most important book your child reads all school year.” There’s a board book for ages 3 and under ($7.95) and a paperback for ages 4 to 7 ($11.95). Published by Free Spirit Publishing.

Hi Christina, welcome to the group!!!

You know I’ve seen NBC enclousures for everything from pets to humans! If I remember off the top of my head www.nitro-pak.com has masks (the 95′s and the 100′s I THINK) for children, but I don’t know if there’s an age limit.

There are pet-sized enclosures but I’m not sure how practical they are, and there are kits that make a “room within a room” enclosure. I’m not sure of the cost, but that might be more practical for children. The bottom line though is that it’s plastic sides that could probably be torn or punctured & if it were me, I’d have to be wide awake while children or pets were inside such a thing since, if it collapsed on them while I slept, and they sufficated, I’d just shoot myself right then and there.

Might be better to start now to teach extremely good hygiene of hands and toys or something like that, and use children’s masks that are more properly fitted.

Glad to have a new voice around! Post often!

Man, I think I’m channeling Kathy in Fl, busy busy busy!! I cleaned out closets yesterday to get rid of the crap and make more room for preps! Checked on the linens and towels. After Kathy’s family flu posts last spring I’ve been stocking up whenever I could find towels on clearance.

I made everyone try on their winter coats and boots to check for sizes and as always, we need bigger snowpants and boots! I bought everyone longjohns, LOL. I told the kids just to tuck them in their sock drawer, they’ll be glad to have them if they need them.

I finally ordered the books: Where There is No Doctor, Where There is No Dentist and The Humanure Handbook. That should be some happy reading! And also ordered rennet tablets from amazon since I couldn’t find them anywhere locally.

I ordered math and language(english and spanish) review packets for my kids in case the teachers go on strike. I figure if I don’t use them now I can use them over the summer or during SIP. I got them from summerskills, which I’ve used in the past and the kids have been happy with them. http://tinyurl.com/fejxv (not selling, just telling)

I also broke into the chocolate stash and I’m feeling much better :-) Maybe that’s why I have this sudden burst of energy. Must go buy more dove bars………

My 10 year old grandaughter loves spaghetti, (always has), and many times we make it just for her and my wife and I have something different. I recently bought a Stanley wide mouth thermos specifically for thermos cooking and I tried a test run with her pasta last weekend. Not only did it work great for cooking the pasta, but it had the added benefit of being able to get her more involved in the cooking process. I put the water on to boil and she selected how much pasta she wanted and put it in the Thermos. When the water was boiling I poured it into the Thermos and sealed it and she set the timer. After 20 minutes, I supervised as she poured out the contents of the Thermos into a strainer. She really enjoyed getting to do more of the preparation of her meal.

HB-that is such a cute age. My 12yo daughter is a big help in the kitchen.

This might sound like a stupid question…My PPF is inching upwards. Is it time for a final internet order? Or do I have a couple of weeks before TSHTF.

Another question. I would like to buy a kerosene heater but cannot for the life of me find a supply of kerosene in this town. The people at the filling stations think I’m insane for even asking. I’ve tried farm supply stores and looked up kerosene in the yellow pages. There is a supplier in the next town that does bulk kerosene. Does anyone have any ideas? What would be another good source of heat in the winter? Our house is small (with a lousy fireplace) and we don’t have much $$. Please help all you smart people!

I was checking out the contents of an emergency dental kit. I think my biggest concern is a filling falling out or a chipped tooth. The Dental Emergency Kit costs $75.

There are only a couple of items in it that aren’t in my med kit and I can get them cheaper separately: Temparin - Temporary Filling Material Temp-Bond - Temporary Cement This explains most of the dental kit’s cost. Cap & Crown Cement A cheaper alternative perhaps? Oral Pain Reliever - paste Oral Pain Reliever - liquid Note second product review. Clove Oil - for toothache

lohrewok - I’m placing a couple more online orders today. My PPF is also creeping up.

We’re buying an inexpensive wood stove for emergency (longer term) heat. We’re all-electric, no fireplace. Won’t install the stove until necessary. We also have a kerosene heater for short-term use. We haven’t bought any kerosene for years, but I think DH gets it at the convenience store where he fills our propane bottles.

http://www.approvedgasmasks.com/chemical-suit.htm

Christina, try that link & scroll down to the bottom of the page almost to find the child, baby & pet contraptions!

lohrewok—I don’t know about buying bulk kerosene, but I was surprised recently to see 5gallon sealed containers of K-1 (ultra pure for indoor heater use) kerosene in my local Marvins supply store. Marvins may be regional (I’m in Alabama); they are similar to a smallish Lowe’s or Ace Hardware. Anyway, they sell K-1 in big sealed, pre-filled 5gal containers, near the paint thinners and industrial solvents. Hope this helps.

Galt @ 14:47 Thanks for the tip. I’ll check the hardware stores and Home Depot. We don’t have a Marvin’s here.

OKbirdwatcher @ 12:13 Good idea about a wood stove-maybe I could convince DH of that.

Went to Aldi’s just now. Got another $100 of mostly canned goods.

The Oberto’s link from above has some great prices on beef jerky. Ended up ordered a bunch! Thanks!

Galt, how is that fuel supposed to be stored?? Is it the stuff you find in the camping section of WalMart?

I’m a newbie to the discussion, though have been lurking for awhile. Please excuse any stupidity! I’m sure this has been discussed before, so just point me to the proper archive, but how does everyone maintain their inventory lists of preps? I’ve tried just writing down what I buy in a categorized binder - food, medical, etc. - with purchase dates, but then felt I needed to notate expiration dates as well, which of course are all out of order. And some things just don’t fit in a nice little category! It’s becoming overwhelming to keep track of what I have and what I need.

I’m workin’ on it @ 15:28--No, it’s not the coleman fuel. propane, or the stove fuel stuff that’s in the camping section of Wally’s. This is a 5gallon metal container of K-1 kerosene (my kerosene heater says about 10 times in the users’ guide to use only K-1 in it). The K-1 containers that I saw at Marvin’s were up on a shelf with the industrial solvents, etc. They had about 5 or so of them, stored indoors on a shelf. Also had several (maybe 10–12 1 gallon filled containers of K-1 kerosene (I believe these were in plastic bottles) on the same shelving area. I lean toward it would be okay to store at least 5 gallons of the K-1 in my garage, but I don’t know for sure. I don’t have an outdoor shed but wish I did. I just have to think that if Marvin’s is not worried about having 45 to 50 gallons of the K-1 indoors then 5 gallons in my garage is not too big of a hazard (but makes me wonder….what about more like 10 or 20 gallons in the garage….?).

Galt – at 16:12

Kerosene is not as flamable as gasoline, and therefore safer to keep indoors. In the past I have kept 5 gallon containers in my basement to fuel a portable heater with no problems.

Hillbilly Bill @ 16:33--Thanks for the info!

Nebraska Cats @ 16:05--Glad you decided to “de-lurk” and start posting! There have been several discussions on different threads re: how to keep up with the preps you have, but I don’t know exactly when/where they were. I use an Excel spreadsheet to keep up with mine. I have columns labeled quantity, item description (e.g., breakfast bars, 8-pack), major type (food, cleaning, medicine, etc.), minor type (ex. bread, lysol, tylenol), expiration date, and location (ex-under guest bed, hall closet). I think that a big advantage of Excel is that it allows you to sort things by type so all of your food products can be viewed together and also by expiration date (so you know what has to be rotated soon). Don’t know if you’re familiar with Excel, but the command sequence is data, then sort. To sort pick the columns that best configure whatever you need at the moment, example, sort major type and minor type will sort all of your food together and within the food listings all of your breads, then all of your vegs, etc. Other folks have commercial systems that they like really well. Just wasn’t in the Galt budget. Hope this helps.

Today’s prep acquisition (not a purchase):
One new 2600-watt gasoline-powered generator. I filled the oil tank and gas tank and it started on the first pull. Plugged a power tool in and it ran quite nicely. More testing to follow.
Happy birthday to me…

Thieves Oil

I read about this in different sources…the story about the robbers who rubbed oils under their feet and on their hands to avoid contracting the 1918 flu when robbing the bodies of the dead and dying. When apprehended, these robbers disclosed the formula of herbs, spices, and oils they used to protect themselves in exchange for a less harsh punishment. That’s why it’s cold Thieves Oil. A couple people believe that the oil combination might be helpful when the bird flu hits. Has anybody done more research on this? I also found different online sources that sell the oil combination.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, Dennis!! Beautiful evening, yes?!

Canned Butter

I received my order today. I was convinced it would be the kind-of-okay-but-still-not-as-good substitute. I mean how can canned butter taste good? Growing up in Europe, I am used to farm fresh butter. Well, I am completly surprised by how good this butter tastes. I’ll order another case tonight :) Just in case there are others out there who have been hesitant, try it!

I’ve used Theives Oil for years. Great if you have a sinus infection. Love the combination of herbs and spice smells. I plan on using a drop or two on my mask if I ever go out.

Galt – at 16:12 Thanks…I’m going to check on this…..we don’t have but might could use a heater like this.

orange-brown – at 20:26 interesting about the oil….never heard of that, teach us more.

Nebraska Cats @ 16:05 Welcome - love your name…we’re a multiple cat family too.

And Galt, maybe you could share your form with us — Dem could help you & it might help those of us constantly looking for easier ways. I use a software program, but I don’t have a hard copy of something on the pantry door to check off as U use something!

http://www.sri.org/research/dnoah.html

This lady is coming to speak to my husband’s company next week—to the top execs, not mid-mgt, so he’ll just hear about it later so my flu prep today is to set up a reminder on my computer calendar to pop up & tell me to ask him each evening what he’s heard from the meeting concerning plans the company is making — that’s some “nagging” I won’t mind doing!

I got 2 kerosene heaters years ago and tested them recently. I found kerosene at our local Canadian Tire plus sourced bulk kerosene (60 gallon drums) to get if our ppf goes up. I debated back and forth for months on whether we should install a wood stove. I’ve decided that if I can’t get a woodburning cook stove I’m going to stay with the kerosene heaters. I’ve got about 6 weeks supply of kerosene on hand plus two fireplaces. The reason is that we can move the heaters around as need be; no installation required; our insurance requires us to report any wood stoves, not kerosene heaters and we were impressed by the heaters during our test. I feel okay now about this decision.

Oremus, try eBay for dental kits! I got mine for $14 or $10, has more stuff in it than the paramedic’s dental supplies in the paramedic’s kit I also bought on eBay!

I’m-workin’-on-it – at 12:17 http://www.approvedgasmasks.com/chemical-suit.htm Christina, try that link & scroll down to the bottom of the page almost to find the child, baby & pet contraptions!

I’m working-on-it thanks for answerng my question, that is the website that I saw too, I am just not sure if those hoods are a good buy or not (they are quite expensive), I cannot tell if the filter attached to the hood is good enough for BF particulates.

You might want to contact the company & tell them that several people are looking at their site & what could they tell us about how small a particulate their equipment will block. Maybe they’ll be interested in giving group pricing on PPE!!

good idea, I’ll do that. Having small children (both under 2) poses some challenges because 1)they do not understand instructions well 2) it might be relly hard to protect them from touching around/touch their own eyes and mouth or keep protective equipment on. I just hope to be able to SIP the whole time. Anyone on this site with small children?

Cristina, use the search box at the tip of the pafe & type the word MOMS — you’ll get a bunch of interesting threads including Only for Moms 1 & 2

MAinVA -

How do you use Thieves Oil for sinus infections? How could you tell it really worked?

I dropped by the clearance section of Walgreens tonite. They had double sets of wooden match boxes, 500 total, for 94 cents. (Though WalMart runs $1.44 for 150 so it’s about the same). Threw a couple of those in the cart.

Then on the very bottom shelf, way back behind all the bottles and jars, I found big pkgs of paper plates, 300 per pkg. They weren’t marked so I had them price-check it; it was $2.68 for 300. What made my evening was that I had gone over to look at their advertised autumn special..exact same plates, $4 for a pkg of 275. This was rather a better deal. <g> At one plate per person per meal, a pkg of 300 will last my family 2 wks/3 meals a day or 3 wks/2 meals a day, so I splurged and bought the last three 300-pks.

I also found a bunch of seed packets on the bottom shelf, mostly lettuce and carrot with a few other things mixed in, also w/o a price. They came up at the original price (59 cents) so the gal told me she’d let me have them for 15 cents. When I showed back up at the register with the last 20 packets, she laughed and asked if I was doing a winter garden. (Yes, of a sort.) She said since I’d gotten the last of them she’d ring them through at 12 cents per packet for me. :o)

Still haven’t figured out how to work in a water filter, sigh, but I’m grateful for the budget preps I am able to pull off!

JV – at 01:12 --- Thieves Oil --- I’ll check more articles later, have to run right now..

Effect of a diffused essential oil blend on bacterial bioaerosols

Chao, SC; Young, DG; Oberg, CJ

Journal of Essential Oil Research [J. Essent. Oil Res.]. Vol. 10, no. 5, pp. 517–523. Sep-Oct 1998.

Thieves, a commercial blend of five essential oils, was tested for its antibacterial activity against Micrococcus luteus, Pseudomonas aeruginosa and Staphylococcus aureus bioaerosols. An aerosol suspension of each bacterial culture was sprayed into a 0.4 m super(3) enclosed fume hood previously sterilized by ultraviolet light. Thieves essential oil blend was then diffused into the hood for a given time. Depositional sampling results showed a significant reduction (P<0.0001) in the aerosol-borne bacterial load after diffusion of the oil blend. Controls showed no inhibitory effect of oil that may have settled on the exposed plate surfaces during bacterial depositional sampling. Inhibition levels appear to be organism specific. There was an 82% reduction in M. luteus bioaerosol, a 96% reduction in the P. aeruginosa bioaerosol, and a 44% reduction in the S. aureus bioaerosol following 10 min of exposure. Results for the time exposure threshold of diffused oil showed that after only six min a 90% reduction in M. luteus viability occurred. Diffusion of the oil blend, Thieves, can significantly reduce the number of aerosol-borne bacteria and may have application in treating air for enclosed environments and preventing transmission of aerosol-borne bacterial pathogens.

Descriptors: Essential oils; Antibacterial agents; Aerosols; Antibacterial activity; Micrococcus luteus; Pseudomonas aeruginosa; Staphylococcus aureus

NEED HELP! HOW DO YOU HIGHLIGHT WORDS IN TEXT????

You can do bold by putting 3 apostrophes before the word and after the word.

It should be noted that the “Journal of Essential Oil Research” is a trade magazine and not a peer-reviewed scientific journal.

Since my alcohol stove project is on hold until my buddy drops off some empty Heineken cans (isn’t that what friends are for?) I’m working on another idea. Based on the concept that water in the garden hose is always really hot after sitting in the sun for hours, I’ve painted a 6′ long 3/4″ PVC black and installed a cap on one end and a ball valve on the other. I’m going to fill it with water and let it sit in the sun for a couple hours to see how hot it gets. My plan is to “pre-heat” the water before using the alcohol stove to boil it. Atleast the project only costs a couple bucks in fittings :)

I suspect that the black rubber landscaping houses would work better but I didn’t have any one hand so I’m trying pvc until next time I make it to Home Depot.

Years ago, I saw plans for making a home heating system, using multiple long coils of black PVC pipe on a plywood frame, under glass. It was reported to generate high temperatures, around 160–180° if I remember correctly. I am sure that your smaller design would increase the water temperature though, obviously, the longer the black pipe or hose, the more heat you will generate.

Somewhere I saw a photo of a long black garden hose threaded through soda bottles or glass jars, each bottle with a hole in the bottom to make the threading possible - the result was a makeshift solar shower/water heater. The principle is the same as Dennis in Colorado suggests, though the means was as low-tech as it gets.

More fluids. Sale of Kedem sparkling ciders, blush, chardonnay, and other grape types. Reduced, and then a rebate of another 1$ making it 99cents a bottle. After the Jewish New Year a lot of kosher things which are excellent are steeply reduced. I am really stocking up on a lot of fluids. One can go on a fruity fluid based fast for a long time without food. This is to stretch my basic preps. I like variety in what I drink, though I can eat tuna and other canned fish for weeks on end.

Does anyone have a cool pantry or root celler? I’m thinking of building a small cool pantry out of adobe bricks. And was wondering if anyone else has tried to build one?

Cristina – at 00:05

Hi! Vikron did some interesting research here, and on a UK site http://com1.runboard.com/bbirdfluuk.f11.t23/ titled: Infant Respirators for UK and History of Infant Respirators. There wasn’t much interest, but I thought Vikron had some unique ideas that possibly could be tweaked. You may want to look into those threads and the ones on this site. On this site, one is the Community Respirator Project. Also, the Simple Mask thread was very informative. Good luck!

I think it was Gary who built a room to serve like a root cellar of sorts…..he had photos…if you’ll search for a thread called “Pics of Preps” I think it was, & scroll through you should find his photobucket link.

I’ve researched the idea myself, but it’s not feasible for me. Need to have really good ventilation, which at the moment I couldn’t provide to the area I was hoping to use. There are only a couple of books written on the issue, and you could search Mother Earth News magazine online for their past articles — that would be your best bet.

I found a little phamplet on ebay called Build Your Own Underground Root Cellar from 1981, ISBN#0882662902 and there was another thicker book by someone else, but I can’t remember it now…..check on Amazon or eBay but compare prices because the phamplet I listed above is just that, a little booklet of sorts with very few pages. Good luck.

nebraska cats – at 16:05

Hi! I am fixin’ to put all mine on an excel spreadsheet. This IS getting to be too much to keep track of any other way. As somebody on some thread said, “Prepping for BF is like hurricane prep’s--- on steroids.” I do see the need to keep the notebook, because it is portable. I can drag it to my storage areas. It would be nice to have something portable, that I could carry in my purse!

I had a major meltdown today and hopefully finished up the last of my preps. Kerosene heater & 10 gal of kerosene at HD for $200. Emergency essentials final order $550. Honeyville Grain final order $480. Berkley filter $60. My credit card is burning up.

My prep… I ordered metal liner bags with a ziplock! Came in sizes. It sounded like mylar to me.

Thanks for the tips on using the sealers. Still haven’t done that. I found a great deal on tomatoes and bananas at a local market. I have been chopping and dehydrating for 2 days! Hope to get on that next week.

Dennis in Colorado – at 12:31 thanks for bringing attention to the fact that the article I cited is not published in a peer-reviewed journal. The citation was meant to be a starting point, born out of my own research curiosity; I will do some more research and if/when I find valuable info, I will post it here.

I’m dehydrating celery; saw a Vector 400 watt charger & NOAA radio & light at Sam’s for $90+ but didn’t get……just unmotivated today.

there are probably alot of you out there who use pay per use cell phones, like Tracfone. If we are homebound with power, people can still get in touch with us via cell, just in case daughter is hogging the phone with a friend.

orange-brown – at 16:38
No criticism intended. By all means, post anyting else you find. One never knows where the next “good thing” may come from.

I’m-workin’-on-it – at 16:06 Yes I did make a what I call, a Larder out in a corner of the garage, and for here near death valley, it had to be well insulated.

Dennis in Colorado – at 16:57

thanks, and I think you had a good point.

I’m not certain the best location for this post…but I found the photo included on the front page of the Dow Chemical site kind of funny….

http://tinyurl.com/z6253

Just got back from several prep runs, snaged 10 white-3.lb pails with lids, they were free. picked up a couple of candle holders at a garage sale and a big canister. Hit Home Depot, bought lime, two garden sprayers for showers and doing dishes, staples, another co detector, fire ext, bug sprays and fly paper and grill brush. then I hit the walmart across the street and bought more propane, another below 0 sleeping bag and tent, lots of shelf stable breakfast type foods, for some reason I was low on those, we’re not big breakfast people around here, baking supplies and more fuel for my laterns and I upgraded my potty bucket to a real port-potty bucket. Tomorrow its Aldis. Phew, I’m tired and I still have to put everything away.

Oh and giraffe – at 17:58 The chicken is kinda funny and cute in a sick sorta way, I wonder if its copywritten.

KimT…I wondered that also. That is why I just included the URL instead of just copying to the thread. Sounds like you made a good haul today!

I havent done much prepping in the past month, been sick with flu/nasty cold…I think I get better then it kicks my butt again, plus my daughter had homecoming last week and the dress, shoes and misc things that go with gettin dressed up hurt my bank account a tad bit but whats a mom to do…if the dang monster bugs gets here she will have good memories.

I’ve had a lot of time to think about what else I needed tho.

Tonight I’m gonna curl up with a pizza and watch the terminator movies, daughter is staying at friends tonight after a band competition.

I bought a lot more kleenex, Between me and my daughter we went thru a lot of tissues in the past month.

Oh yea, I’m chatty today. When I was in walmart they had their tvs on and they were repeating things to do to prepare for diaasters for disaster preparedness month. I may never have paid attention before but I live in Iowa, its not like we have hurricanes or earthquakes, just the occasional tornado and snowstorms generally.

KimT…I certainly empathize with the hurting bank account from phoo phoo stuff for dances. I feel like I am still suffering from last year’s prom. My prepping has slowed immensly over the past few months. Between high school demands on the pocketbook and DH telling me that we should eating what we have rather than making trips to the store, I am feeling quite pressured.

DD is out tonight with a VBall team get together, so I am thinking that finding a great movie sounds like a plan.

nopower at 14:09, if you’re using pvc pipe rather than cpvc pipe you might want to re-think whether or not that water will be potable (drinkable). I was always under the impression that one should only use cpvc pipe for hot water under pressure (which I think that your setup will be since it’s a closed tube being heated by the sun), and use pvc only for dwv (drain waste vent) or COLD water under pressure (schedule 40 can be used for either dwv or cold pressure piping).

I’m not sure of the exact reasons for this, just know that’s what I’ve been taught and always heard. It may just be a structural integrity issue with pvc pipe and hot water under pressure, or it may be that something leaches out of the pvc at high temps. I just don’t know and have been unable to find a satisfactory answer during a brief google search.

If you’re just using your “pipe heater” for things like shower water I’m sure it’s ok, but I’d do further investigation before I’d trust drinking it. Just my 2 cents. Hopefully there is a plumber or chemist who’ll see this and give a definitive answer.

Just what I was thinking, Kim. How about drinking up a jug of wine, and painting the empty glass jug black?

giraffe – at 17:58 I had to load the page 3 times ‘cause the pics rotate, but saw the chick….funny!

That is sooo funny, I couldn’t see what was funny about the dog, but that chicken.

Gary Near Death Valley – at 17:35

I’m-workin’-on-it – at 16:06 Yes I did make a what I call, a Larder out in a corner of the garage, and for here near death valley, it had to be well insulated.

So what are your average storage temps in that food bunker Gary ?

I’m contemplating something similar in my garage, since the sea container gets a bit warm in the summer.

silversage—wow, I didn’t even know that there WERE any other photos until you said something. I had to refresh the page several times this go around to find the Fighting the Flu page. I do agree…none of those other photos are funny…but I did get a good chuckle with the photo of the hen.

Wouldn’t that look good on a T-shirt?

ABSOLUTELY!

Bird Guano – at 23:41 During the fall, winter and spring it is fairly cool in there, but in the summer it does go up to around 83 degrees,,,,This summer I really kept the garage door shut when not taking in or out the tractor etc, and that helped alot. Also the windows I have in the garage 2 at about 2 foot square, I have foam insulation covered with aluminum foil, to reflect even more of the sunlight out and not even soak the heat into the foam. If you look at the pictures I have posted in the Pictures of Preps forum, you will notice that I have at the very top, dried food in packages, and those items that would not be stressed due to warmth. Things that I do definitely not want to get any warmth at all, I place on the cement floor, as that is the coolest area in the room. If for some reason, I do have things that would not take warmth very well, I have on the metal shelves in the spare bedroom. Also the 5 and 7 gallon buckets, of beans, rice, popcorn, etc, etc, I keep low so the weight does not get too heavy on the metal shelves. My wife and I have enough, to last for at least 2 to 3 years, but if some move in (which I have no clue as most are about 900 miles away), we have extra for them and even for neighbors if needed. Have alot of 10 and 20 pound bags of beans also on the shelves. Again I try not to have anything in there that temperature would be hard on. Hope this helps some.

nopower, while still not a definitive answer, I did a little more research and found that pvc pipe is rated only to 140 degrees F (while cpvc pipe is rated to 180 deg. F.), which is probably the reason that it wouldn’t be wise to use for a closed system such as this… it is quite possible I think that such a temperature could be reached or exceeded. I found one example of someone who had built a solar passive convective solar water heater and forgot to re-open the valve allowing cool water to cycle in (thereby creating a closed system in the solar collector pipes, which would be similar to your closed pipe). While the thicker fittings were ok, the pipe itself had melted and sagged into a big mess.

So I believe that any problems with your system that might arise are simply structural… the darn thing could melt if it gets too hot.

Jane at 23:02, I’d be kind of scared to use a glass bottle for a closed solar water heater; if the heated air and water inside the jug expands too much and creates too high a pressure, you’ve made an improvised explosive device which could send glass shards flying everywhere (of course, if you’d recently drunk an entire jug of wine and were still under its effects, I’m sure you wouldn’t mind a bit ;-). If you were to watch it so it didn’t become too hot, or just leave the cap sitting loosely atop the bottle, you’d be ok.

The more I thought about it, I decided that I may just add a passive hot water heating system when I redo my well plumbing. It will save me money now and would provide me hot water without electricity (solar to pump the water) in the event of a pandemic.

I planned to use a 12v pump to supply the house plumbing from a large tank. I’m going to see if I could install two 12v pumps to feed the cold and hot each. The hot would run from the supply tank through heating tubes on the roof and then into the existing electric hot water heater. Since the hot water heater is being supplied with water that is already warm, if not hot, it should use less electricity.

Plus having a seperate pump for hot and cold should help with water pressure.

Is it safe to have propane heaters indoors? How much propane can you burn without it being a hazard to humans? Does it give off carbon monoxide fumes? Thanks.

Birdie, there are some small propane heaters that will do one room and are rated for indoor use. They don’t give off Carbon Monoxide and also have a low Oxygen shutoff.

Here is an ad with a picture.

http://tinyurl.com/zjyw9

Most sporting goods stores carry these and I sometimes see them on sale for about $10 less than the price in this particular ad.

They can also be used with an adpter and 20# tank rather than just the little 1 lb bottles.

DH and I went to a Super Wally World last night…yup it was a hot time in the old town. Not many people there, which was both strange and wonderful, so we had time to stop and look without getting run over. We both observed tremendous amounts of prep items on end caps, etc. including entire cases of tuna for .53 a can. It was the chunk light stuff so I didn’t get any. Saw lots of big bags of rice and other dried goods. The dried beans were picked over, let me tell you! In the camping section, I bought the last solar shower for 6 bucks, there were none last weekend. I need to find a longer hose for it. Also got a sterno stove (back-up) for $6…they had a lot of those.

In the garden section picked up some things for the garden we’re growing including a short very wide syringe looking thing that my disabled husband can use to plant his own seeds. It’s designed to be used for very small seeds too. Since he likes to run “experiments” he’s using one of the raised beds for his own stuff including a solar powered watering system. It’s really cool.

I did take my time down the hispanic and asian food aisles, there were lots of things identical to other aisles but cheaper. Picked up lots of packets of mixes and gravy, three box mixes of a doughnut-type desert, some prepared (meat included) meals for 3.23 that serve 4–5, bought tortilla flour/mix that looks easy. Even got some old english cheese and velveeta despite getting in on the group buy for cheese and butter. It was a good run…spent $100. Not bad considering what I’ve been doing.

I remember when we’d spend that on a nice dinner out and have nothing to show for it the next day. This feels better.

Forgot to mention another led headlamp for me…he already has one from his stocking last Christmas (hey, we don’t have kids, what can I say?) and a maglight led flashlight that can also be used as a “candle”. That sucker was $25!

AzNewBe—Root cellar plans: http://waltonfeed.com/old/cellars.html

I’m not sure is these are the sites, but somewhere there’s a chart with the best temperature and humidity levels for each fruit and vegetable. Argghhh. They are all different. :→><<

Jane, thank you for posting that. I’ve been trying to think of what to do down here in Florida. We don’t have stable soil, it’s sand, and at 6 feet we’re hitting water. I think I can modify one of the plans to work. I appreciate it.

Jane-13:33 Thanks for the info. I remember my Great uncle and Aunts root celler, we thought it was so neat!! lol

I actually was thinking of making my own adobe bricks. they are fairly easy to do, didn’t live in NM all those years without learning a couple things. And I know adobe home remain cool in summer and will hold heat if need be in winter. Although I’m hoping more for the cold. Thinking it would work in a pinch as an outdoor frig ;)

just got in from a Sam’s run, talk about a mess. people eveywhere, but not much preppin that I could see. I finally feel comfortable with some of my preps, just picked up eight more cases of vegetables and the expiration on them is 09 so am good to go there. and finally have 120 double rolls of tissue for bathroom. and 20 boxes of kleenex , am thinkin a few more of those to be safe though.just got 6 five gallon jugs of honey and will feel good with six more. and this is so strange. I’m havin fun. LOLOLOL……..

just did a wally world quick stop. I found two of the brinkman lanterns. no signs, or sign of prepping anywhere. the rice & beans are mostly small bags and still there. my choice of UHT milk. this area is clueless, I think. makes it easier for me to get things, but I worry. I’ve talked a bunch of folks into checking out BF and they are now prepping. TPTB did not take leadership 101, cause I don’t see them leading anywhere.

Lady Biker: Yes, there is a certain sense of satisfaction in prepping. Nowadays we are watching the sale ads more than ever. CVS Pharmacy has 200 count Kleenex for $1 and Campbells tomato soup for 50 cents. Jewel Food Stores has 8 ounce bars of cheddar cheese for $1. We went to Sam’s today, too. More beans, rice, powdered milk, peanut butter, oatmeal, etc. Major prepping was complete in August, but getting back-up adds a certain dimension of security. It could prove useful for barter or for insurance against really long-term supply chain disruptions (and inflation), which I anticipate will last well over one year.

For those who are shopping at Sam’s, you might still find 6-packs of small propane canisters for about $10, which works out to $1.66 per canister. I have not seen this size of propane for less than $2 in a couple of years. With just one canister, I can count on 6 hours of conservative use for a lantern, a stove, or a catalytic speace heater.

Today’s prep purchases (in addition to other shopping):
8 cans refried beans
8 cans pork & beans
24 cups Maruchan instant lunch (ramen noodles)
6 pounds whey protein powder
Total 24,580 Kcal.

Dennis, I guess you’re doing the same thing I do. After every trip to the store, I log in the calories and recalculate how many more days of SIP I just bought for the family. Based upon the reports from the Word Bank and the Congressional Budget Office, we might find food and other commodities scarce and expensive for 18 months or more. So, I view the current exercise as insurance.

My weekend prep was to do a little relaxing with the family, check out the new BJs, and take another serious look at the family getting a dog which would be the 14 year old’s primary responsibility.

Had fun relaxing and am now moderately more secure in getting a dog. We have an 18 year old kitty that we have a responsibility to but we’ve been promising to think about a dog for our son for so long that we figured we’d better do it now rather than later or it might never happen.

What I tell you I am glad of is that I didn’t go into BJs with any money. Because if I had I would have come out broke for one reason or another. <grin> They have a much wider variety of goods than SAMs and also take regular store coupons. They had a bunch of meats and sausages that I could easily envisioned canned and on my pantry shelves. <grin> They also had some unusual gourmet items that I’ve only heard about on this list but never seen … Thai noodles type things, chocolate covered fortune cookies, unusual flavorings, etc. I hate to have two warehouse memberships, especially considering BJs is $45, but I might just have to. They also carry a lot of toys and I could crank out quite a bit of my Christmas shopping and get it out of the way.

Kathy,

I got a free 60 day membership to BJs in the mail and tried them out. Nice, but to far away and already had Sam’s membership. As soon my free membership expired, they sent me another 60 day trial sheet.

You might tell them you spend alot of money at Sam’s and see if they will give you a free trial membership (at regular prices, not plus 15%). Tell them you Sam’s club expires in November and you don’t know if you are going to renew it :)

Gary Near Death Valley – at 01:09

Bird Guano – at 23:41 During the fall, winter and spring it is fairly cool in there, but in the summer it does go up to around 83 degrees,,,,

Thanks Gary.

I’m in a coastal climate so it’s not as harsh as where you live.

It did get over 100 for a week here this past summer however.

Building such an igloo inside the garage should keep things pretty stable here.

I’m trying to figure out how to build one inside the 20ft conex container I use for primary storage.

It’s already partially earth bermed.

Perhaps add a LOT of foam to the roof.

I gotta tell ya what I found , at Wally World they have a 8oz block of Velveeta, just perfect to drop into a pan of macaroni and no left overs to dry out. I’m gonna grab a few of those,just got one to try out and it works wonderfully. and it’s cute too……LOLOL….darn I gotta get a life somewhere………:)

OMG Cute

a Pet Velveeta ??

LMAO

Hey whatever gets you to prep.

Birdie – at 10:20 - I just used my propane Mr. Heater Portable Buddy (like the one AVanarts mentioned) for a camping trip. It’s designed for indoor use and worked great in the tent. I got mine at Cabelas - not the cheapest, but convenient for me. Now that I know it works, I’m going to buy a 20lb propane cylinder for it.

Orlando preppie, I thought that chunk light was now the healthiest tuna, less mercury, was it? (Compared to albacore, which I always used to buy.)

Orlando preppie, I thought that chunk light was now the healthiest tuna, less mercury, is it? (Compared to albacore, which I always used to buy.)

I haven’t heard that…but I like the taste of Albacore better. I decided that I’m 42 years old and I don’t have to eat stuff I don’t like. (memories of Bust ‘41 and brocolli)

Kim at 8:44, thanks for the warning about pressure building up in a glass jug full of water, if the cap is on tight. Never thought of that.

Orlandopreppie, I can’t resist asking what kind of water you hit at 6 feet. Is it fresh water?

In all honesty, I don’t dig many holes these days. Think more of seepage than water, or squishy sand on my side of town.

My recent post got me thinking about one facet of our preps that migh be worth sharing here. How to make all that bland food taste good.

My wife and I have spent the past few weeks experimenting with various combinations of rice plus pinto beans, black beans, red beans, kidney beans, split peas, or lentils. In some of these combinations, we have tried adding different items to enhance the flavor or provide more protien. The additives include such things as chicken, pork, beef, hamburger, canned tuna, scanned almon, canned ham, Spam, and Armour’s Treet, canned tomato products, spaghetti sauces, various soups, powdered gravies, powdered bullion, and chili. We are doing some of these same experiments with pasta in place of the rice and beans. Sometimes it is something simple, like adding cooked rice or pasta to a can of Progresso soup. Other times, we attempt casseroles or stews.

Certainly, we would rather grill up a steak and serve it with steamed broccoli and some fresh fruit, but the way we view this exercise is like this: we have invested in hundreds of pounds of grain products, so we had better figure out how to make it taste good.

One other item that may be of interest is pancakes. If you can keep from eating them with syrup or jam, they can be used as a bread substitute for tuna or peanut butter sandwiches. No, really, it’s true.

Try some Mexican or Oriental seasonings.

just a thought-

if you have had your digital thermometer for any number of years, it would be a good idea to have a new one, or a regulat one. Mine went last week at night, when I needed it the most. (fam has the crud). I will now stock a regular one too.

Dr Dave said: One other item that may be of interest is pancakes. If you can keep from eating them with syrup or jam, they can be used as a bread substitute for tuna or peanut butter sandwiches. No, really, it’s true.

Dr Dave, that’s a great idea….we forget that Bisquick and things like it make biscuits as well as pancakes, toppings for casseroles—anything from main dishes to being a helpful additive.

Pancake bread is a good idea.

And you’re right about the seasonings & sauces. We were discussing that on another thread & i learned about Red Wine Powder to give meals that rich flavor by making a red wine sauce, white sauces, Turkey, Beef, Chicken juice powder, etc., there were many choices in the www.Amazon.com grocery store—the types of sauces you’d find in nicer restaurants.

It seems that in it’s pre-packaged container, if I read correctly, the shelf life was suggested to be six months, so I would buy the container, empty into a glass jar & seal with an oxy absorber to keep it fresher longer.

Perhaps we should start a Bisquick thread. I have so many recieps. Great stuff.

I LOVE Bisquick and have stocked a good bit of it. My daughter has a pancake sandwich every morning before school.

I’m planning on using Bisquick and pancake mix to supplement my bread making supplies and add a bit of variety. I posted a really easy Bisquick recipe on the Recipes thread last week.

cottontop & sage - Bisquick recipes would be great. Kathy in FL has posted some, but we can always use more. A plus would be the time correction for a solar oven, though another person could do that part. (My rule of thumb when I try something new is start with 2x the time in a regular oven, check, then go longer if necessary. Often I need 3x the regular oven time.)

lady biker – at 20:16

I don’t know if this works, but I have velveeta put up too, & I am going to try it.

First, you tape the box edges with packaging tape to seal them. Next, you dip the container into melted paraffin wax. It is suppose to preserve it. Sorta made sense to me… because of how they put that wax stuff on aged cheese. Right now, I have those boxes of velveeta in the refrigerator.

There are even recipes for making your own “bisquick!!” Along with recipes for making your own seasonings like shake-n-bake or cajun spices, etc.

What was that warning about old pancake mix becoming lethal? To a child, I think- don’t remember exactly. Had it become damp?

Drank some of my Kedems Catawba grape sparking juice in a wine glass. I always forget how good these are. (I only buy them on sale after Jewish Holidays) I think grape juice is as good a flu killer as wine, and the kids love it. So I will go off to the sale shelves and stock up on more of same. I doubt if it will last till any SIP, but an occassional bottle might escape.

And just a note on “pancakes.” They can be made with a variety of mixes. Traditional pancake mix, cornmeal, wheat … heck, you can even thin down cake batter and make pancakes with it.

You can also make savory pancakes as opposed to the sweet variety. I make a pizza pancake with bisquick that you can then dunk in pizza sauce.

You can also add a lot of stuff to pancakes and wind up with gingerbread pancakes, pumpkin pancakes, etc.

And, there are the German-style baked pancakes that are sort of like a souffle … very easy to make and they might be good in a solar oven, don’t know for sure though.

Just some ideas.

Jane: see this link on the mold in pancake mix. I believe it is usually ok till opened, then be careful.

http://tinyurl.com/lffsd

Also think it was discussed on another thread, but where and when? Which life was I living then.

Jane – at 11:13

See explanation here: http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/pancake.asp

It was a severe allergy to molds.

I ordered 38# of Oberto’s cheese odd’s and ends. They are the ends and pieces that are not uniform so they can’t be sold as cheese sticks. I got 1 package of the sausage and cheese sticks to try first. They are shelf stable and packaged in 1# sizes. I figure this will provide extra fat and extra calcium as well as add variety . They were only $1.99# at http://tinyurl.com/okrv9. Thanks, Wrenna, for the head’s up on that site.

We also canned 21 quarts of chicken over the weekend. We will probably can another 7 quarts today. When I say “we”, I mean it’s a team effort. DS gets the jars and rings brought in and washed, I cut up the chicken, fill the jars, boil and mark the lids, and DH does the processing. I’m “skeered” of that part. I was ashamed of that until my husband told me that my best friend, our town’s answer to Martha Stewart, does the same thing. She’d just never mentioned it. LOL

I think I’m going to order us a brand new pressure canner and take our old one down to my daughters. They need one available so they can at least can up what’s in their freezers if the power goes out. Hubby deserves a better canner anyway. He wants one with a weighted gauge because he thinks they require less watching. I think I’ll surprise him and get an All American. I just won’t tell him what it costs until after it arrives. ;-)

Dr Dave – at 06:23

“Making bland food taste good”

Some other things that help: liquid smoke (use sparingly & adjust to personal taste), kitchen bouquet, masa flour (to mexican dishes), herbs, wines, powder worcester sauce, various peppers/leeks/onions/garlics, citrus, http://www.copykat.com/ , www.recipegoldmine.com/ , www.cdkitchen.com/ , http://recipes.robbiehaf.com/Copycat.html {all have copy cat clone recipes for ingredients in most packaged seasonings and packaged things like bisquick, etc.)

EnoughAlready: thanks for the tips and the links.

About that Velveeta (don’t you love that stuff??) I read here on fluwikie somewhere that if you buy your cheese as shelf-stable (NOT refrigerated) that it will keep that way even past the exp. date, but if you buy it already refrigerated, then you need to keep it that way.

I wondered why but didn’t ask, just assuming someone knew what they were talking about. Last night I read that if you open a can of food, heat all of it, then only eat part, you need to eat the other part fairly soon before bacteria sets in. But if you open a can & only heat up half the can & eat that up in one sitting, the other half — the part you DIDN’T heat up — will keep a lot longe than if it had been heated.

The canning process kills off any bacteria that was originally in the food. Apparently the heating process starts a bacterial process again. But if it’s not been heated, it wouldn’t necessarily start a bacterial process, until it was heated.

Maybe the same is true with Velveeta, only with cold. After it’s been commercially sealed, if it’s then exposed to either heat or cold, a bacterial process may start so you wouldn’t want totake it from the store refrigerated & then let it warm up, or take it from the store in a shelf-stable condition, put it in the fridge for days or weeks, then take it out and leave it out at room temp.

I’m just guessing that what apparently may affect one type of commercially sealed food, may affect another in a similar way. Anyone know for sure??

Nebraska cats/Birdie, I just scored a portable Buddy Heater too, off ebay this afternoon.

Can’t wait to try it out! How do you plan to store/position the 20lb tank in relation to the heater and space you wish to heat? Am not sure how to go about storing fuel and how much and all that either. Thoughts? Perhaps we could take this over to the “heat” thread.

Am also making a last splurge of preps to finish things off. The food’s an ongoing project of course (going to sneak more bags in from the trunk of my car tonite as my neighbors would totally know what I’m up to if they saw me carry in more bags full of cans when I just carried groceries in friday), but I’m gonna enjoy knowing *nearly* every other necessity has been covered.

Also, dehydrating celery, potatoes. Could really stand to do this with some ground meat though, so this is apparently what I’ll be doing for the remainder of the fall into winter. I’ve also purchased a winter root cellar share with our CSA and am now hoping we’ll be able to travel the five miles once a month to pick-up our share.

AzNewBe – at 15:25

In Africa they’re making these cheap clay-pot coolers. Two big ol clay pots, one that will fit inside the other, the space in between filled with damp sand. Wet the sand down once or twice a day. Apparently it works.

I’m-workin’-on-it – at 16:22

“But if it’s not been heated, it wouldn’t necessarily start a bacterial process, until it was heated.”

The “bacterial process” starts when you break the seal of the sterile environment (open your can) in a non-sterile environment (your kitchen). When you heat it all, but only eat half, the remaining food has to cool down. Doing so it goes through a heat range where bacterial growth occurs more quickly than when either “hot” (over 140F) or “cold” (under 40F). So you end up with a higher bacterial population in leftovers that have gone through this temperature range than in food that you have refrigerated immediately out of the can.

Thanks for clearing that part up….does the same hold true then for taking something shelf-stable like the Velveeta and refrigerating it, then taking it back out (or having the power go off)?

Velveeta is packaged in aseptic (sterile) containers.

The only way it would become contaminated through the shelf-refrigeration-shelf cycle, is if the package is compromised and it’s no longer aspetic.

I’ve been working on building up more spices, vinegars, etc, too. Of course, I guess that’s one bonus of having lived mostly on rice, beans, & pasta for the last decade, lol…lots of experience making them flavorful (and kids who don’t know anything else!) I did find out a long time ago that spending a few precious grocery dollars on unusual spices/condiments really did help make the budget food palatable.

I was cleaning out the kids’ closets (must make room for more TP!) and pulled out a plastic/vinyl child’s tent. It’s the play tent kind, not the camping kind, and is a single piece that goes over a collapsible frame made of plastic tubing. (The Aussies might appreciate “Bananas in Pajamas” on it, too, lol, even if nobody else knows who I’m talking about!)

The kids don’t really play with it anymore but I got to wondering if it might be workable as a steam tent, like Dr Woodson suggests.

The dimensions are off a bit since it’s rectangular instead of square, and I’d have to tape the window flaps closed, but the tent & frame are light enough that they could be suspended over a bed. It also stands up to being scrubbed and being cleaned with bleach; I know that one from experience. Most importantly, I already have it on hand and had been trying to figure out an inexpensive way to construct a steam tent for the kids.

I’d appreciate any suggestions/input/flaws if you have them…would rather get them worked out now instead a ‘SIP with a sick child’ situation later.

For those who are interested in making corn tortillas with the masa mix;

if you have one of those cast Iron tortilla presses , it’s easier.

Just be sure to have 2 sheets of some kind of plastic to squish the mix between, or you’ll never get it off the press.

Both the flour & corn tortillas can be made with a rolling pin, if you don’t have the press.

Pancakes & biscuits can also be made with sourdough as a levaning agent, if you don’t have yeast.

I just sent the link to Ft Waynes webpage to the pandemic planner at work. That site is great. They have new powerpoint presentations that are so public friendly. Wish I could go listen to their meetings this month. Check out the site. Some great stuff to share with folks that is short, to the point, and in plain English. I’m impressed with them. Maybe we should all move there. Here’s the link: http://www.fighttheflu.org/panflu_overview.htm

Bird Guano – at 21:19

Thanks for clearing that up for me about the Velveeta! I feel better knowing that!

Velveeta is my main plan for having cheese during a pandemic. I have blocks stored in our spare refrigerator now and I know they will keep without refrigeration when the power goes down.

Speaking of the power being out, I posted this link a few weeks ago, but these candles are SO good that it is worth a repeat. The glass candle holder alone is worth the price. I have a case of them stashed under the bed.

50 Hour Emergency Candles

Somewhere on the wide,wide web, I read about preserving cheese using parafin wax. You dip your hunk of cheddar into melted wax, let dry and repeat severaql times. Then add a layer of cheesecloth, and repeat dipping until the wax is 1/3 to 1/2 thick. Stated that this would preserve cheese for at least a year.

Anyone here ever done this? Sounds great, if true.

this is what I found doing a quikc google search:

http://tinyurl.com/j4lnc

here they talk about making your own cheese, but I wonder if you can just use step 10?!!

Step 10—Waxing: When your cheese is dry, it can be waxed to keep it from drying out too much, and to help retard the growth of mold. (It’s best to use specialty cheese wax, which doesn’t crack as easily as paraffin.) Find an old pan that’s sound but dispensable, and melt the wax, very carefully, over low heat. (The safest method is to use a double boiler.)

The waxing will go easily if you cool the cheese in a refrigerator for several hours prior to beginning, then paint the wax on with a natural-bristle paintbrush (don’t use nylon, which can dissolve in molten wax). Paint the top and sides first, wait 30 seconds or so for the wax to cool and solidify, then turn the cheese over and paint its bottom.

Now’s the time to date your cheese. (While there are specialty cheese labels for this purpose, just about any self-adhering label that will stick to wax will do the trick.)

and this

http://tinyurl.com/hy4be

is where I found the cheese wax to buy….I am sure there is a lot more out there, but I thought I start googling.

I will also talk to the family on the farmer’s market that sells their own cheese

I can find already-all- waxed cheese in some of the grocery stores, usually cheddar bricks.

(And have my eye on some small, to-be-cut, imported wheels, in the pricy shops. Ok, a big cash outlay, but somehow I’d rather have 20 lbs of some other kind of cheese than Velveeta. Smarter to get both? You folks have a person who hasn’t eaten meat in decades seriously considering buying Spam.)

;-)

crfullmoon – at 11:06

I have been looking for smaller wheels on different websites (haven’t bought anything yet)….any recommendations where to shop? I am vegetarian as well and LOVE my cheese. In addition, I am calling local farmers to see if I can buy wheels directly from them, but if you have good sources, PLEASE share. Thank you.

AVanarts – at 10:26 Thank you.

Hillbilly Bill – at 09:20

Thanks, I followed your recommendation on the candles and ordered a case as well, am very pleased with them. I have some other stand alone candles that I can use in the containers when the orginal one is depleted, which sure makes it safer and easier to handle them.

Sure appreciate you sharing the info.

EastTN – at 12:12

You are most welcome. I’m looking into candle making supplies so I can refill the containers when they are empty. Anyone know what makes a candle burn longer? I have heard it has to do with the amount of beeswax vs regular parafin but I don’t know that for sure.

Bird Guano – at 21:19 Velveeta is packaged in aseptic (sterile) containers.

The only way it would become contaminated through the shelf-refrigeration-shelf cycle, is if the package is compromised and it’s no longer aspetic.

Would this hold true for waxed cheese bricks that I see in the grocery store? They are in the deli cheese section (not the dairy area) and are in a refigerated case in the store. Would they spoil if I brought them home and did not refrigerate them?

Bird Guano – at 21:19 Velveeta is packaged in aseptic (sterile) containers.

The only way it would become contaminated through the shelf-refrigeration-shelf cycle, is if the package is compromised and it’s no longer aspetic.

Would this hold true for waxed cheese bricks that I see in the grocery store? They are in the deli cheese section (not the dairy area) and are in a refigerated case in the store. Would they spoil if I brought them home and did not refrigerate them?

Today I splurged. I bought a log splitter and a 1200 watt inverter.

Log splitter was on sale. I had to print out the internet page to get the sale price at the store. Manual Hydraulic Log Splitter

Picked up a $40 gun holster today- so that if I’m out in the yard etc can have one easily accesible without holding on to it.

Epsom salts for foot soaking and laxative use. A water cooler to hold 5 gallon jugs.

Also got heavy duty sticks for all windows- in case no power- no alarm - and plyboard sheets.

Cinda – at 12:34

Bird Guano – at 21:19 Velveeta is packaged in aseptic (sterile) containers.

The only way it would become contaminated through the shelf-refrigeration-shelf cycle, is if the package is compromised and it’s no longer aspetic.

Would this hold true for waxed cheese bricks that I see in the grocery store? They are in the deli cheese section (not the dairy area) and are in a refigerated case in the store. Would they spoil if I brought them home and did not refrigerate them?

Unfortunately no.

Waxed cheese is NOT The same as commercial aseptic packaging in controlled conditions.

They would indeed spoil.

I’m doing regular chores around our house but realize they are also flu-preppie in a way.

Prior to the holiday season I always declutter the kids toys and clothing. And I start doing some early holiday shopping. That qualifies as a form of prepping, right?! <grin>

My pantry needs yet another reorganization as does the utility room. Both have so much stuff in there that they are easily wrecked up. I need to go through the old camping equipment and other things I have stored in the utility room and get rid of what we really don’t need any more.

I’ve gone back to ye ol’ chore chart with the kids for a while. I’m going bonkers trying to do all the extra work that comes with this time of year … business, holidays, etc. … so it is an even bigger burden to have to constantly remind them to do their regular chores, as well as what that means. This way, no one has an excuse, including me. <grin>

And, hubby and trying to finish the last of the physical repairs to the property that was badly vandalized earlier this year. Its taken months and months to get this done. In October we will go up as a family and I’ll be able to put stuff back where it belongs as well as try and do a little stocking up of preps.

Went to Sam’s Club and found some 43% wool socks by Burlington, 3 pairs for ~$12. They’re machine washable and dryable (low temp.). They come in both men’s and women’s sizes. I’m wearing a pair of the women’s socks now, and the spandex makes it quite snug, so maybe I’ll try socks I bought for DH too. It isn’t uncomfortable, it just leaves marks.

Sam’s also has Brita filters, a slim-line pitcher plus 7 filters for $30. They have really heavy-duty shelving too, but I can’t even lift one end of the box.

Got a flu shot and pneumovax. Only $67 total and a 30 minute wait for both, and no questions asked about the pneumovax!

Have a question. I have several popcorn tins that are rusted on the bottom inside. If I were to place several layers old tablecloths on the bottom would that be enough protection so I could use them to store items that are sealed pasta products, popcorn etc.

Hillbilly Bill

I’ve heard that storing candles in the fridge makes them burn longer, and also if you are making your own candles, add stearic acid. this additive makes the wax harder and raises the melting point, which will make your candles burn longer.

I gave up on candles after the ice storm.

cottontop – at 08:32

Thanks for the info. As with everything connected with prepping, there is a learning curve!

arklatex- at 02:25

I have several of those big ole tins, with minimumal rust inside,(people keep giving me these silly things), and what I did was use steel wool to remove as much of the rust as possible, sprayed the rust with primer, just the rust, not the whole inside. Let it dry for a couple of days, lined it with a small trash sack,(just slip it over like a trash can), and stored goods that are sealed in bags, in it. I have had no problem, but do keep an eye on the rust. We all know about rust. I feel as long as the rust is treated, covered, and items are sealed, there really isn’t any danger of contamination. I could be wrong. If you are worried about moisture, as I am, I seal the lid with duct tape. It’s also great for writing on.

Cottontop@8:32………

and also if you are making your own candles, add stearic acid. this additive makes the wax harder and raises the melting point, which will make your candles burn longer.

Do you know if stearic acid is available at regular stores?Or where I can get it?

Thanks….

Malachi-at 08:59 You can also use vybar(sp) to make candles harder and burn longer, it is available through JoAnn’s Fabric or through Cierra Candles on line. Hows the canning going?

Malachi-at 08:59

I’ve just called michael’s, and they don’t sell it, (at least in my area). funny, Michael’s sell everything!!

GloryBee Foods has it listed in their catalog for 4.50/1 lb. Their website is glorybeefoods.com. They sell soap making, candle making supplies, and other stuff.

MI mom…..Thanks for the tip on the candle stuff.I hope Jo Ann’s has it.I’ve been mostly using the dehydrator for the remaining pears(Yes I still have pears!)I got a bushel of peaches from Dragonladys mom and made jam with those,and am leaving in a few to their house to get 3–4 bushels of grapes to make mostly juice and some jelly.It will be my first time trying jelly.Saturday my cousin will bring his dump truck over and we will go apple picking.There are at least 10 peoples trees we get to pick and we will take them over to a cider press.I plan to freeze it and if I can round up some more jars (1/2 gallons) I will can as much of that as I can manage also.My hubby is a homebrewer of beer and we also decided if we can get enough grapes we will start a batch of wine.Someday I may get the time to clean my home again but it won’t be too soon!!!!

The plan is to can about 16 quarts of meat tonight … ground beef, sausage, etc.

Repeat, that is the “plan.” LOL. I also have to get the kids’ soccer gear and several other things.

Boy this thread is getting Looooong! (-:

I have taken a break from food and emergency supply prepping for a while for my own mental health. So I decided to work on something more fun — activities for the kids in case we have an extended stay at home. That’s been a fun thing.

I got 2 Rubbermaid bins and labeled them “Rainy Day Activities - Preschooler” and “ - Toddler” and have been visiting thrift stores and garage sales to fill them up cheaply. It didn’t take long — a lot of art supplies, simple games, jacks and marbles, puzzle books, thick classic story anthologies, magic kits, craft kits, flower press kits and so on for the older child; the toddler is a bit more tricky of course, but a good supply of bubbles, dolls with velcro clothes, and finger paint will go a long way I suppose!

And yes, some of this stuff could be used as Christmas presents (or emergency birthday presents)-- an All Hazards approach (of sorts)! (-:

A tip to candle makers…..I just learned this.Parafin is a byproduct of the oil industry so you can usually get it from your home fuel supplier for cheaper than a craft stores.I just called mine and can get it by the 60lbs box for 1.08 lbs.Called JoAnn’s and theirs is 1.99 lbs.They do not carry the hardener.I guess it is off to GloryBees website for me.Thanks cottontop.

Candles would definitely be something of value to barter or trade in a post-pandemic world. Not a bad idea to have some supplies on hand and some experience in making them.

today I’ve got 20 lbs of chicken leg quarters cooking getting ready to can it today, and another 20 lbs to do tomorrow. I should get 14 qts of meat in broth and another 14 qts of just broth. So that will be nice.

I’ve also got a crock pot full of apples cooking, gonna try making apple butter today, we will see how that goes. Never made it before.

I’ve got to get my guestroom (prep room) cleaned out and ready for my MIL to visit this month. I’m dreading both the cleaning and the visit (ugggghhhhh) LOL.

Speaking of barter items,I don’t know if you all saw the thread I started called Freebies.I listed a freebie I got several times when I was a smoker(yuck yuck I know!!!I have been smoke free now for 5 years)Santa Fe Natural Tobacco company will send anyone 21 years or over (for 6.00 shipping) a carton of their American Spirit cigarettes.Those things sold for 4 bucks a pack when I did smoke so I know they are more now.I am ordering a carton today for barter.This company did not start sending me tons of obnoxious junk mail,although they send me a birthday card every year still.It was one of those ones with the seeds in it. Kinda cool.

Malachi - at09:52

another place to by beeswax, which is recommended for candle making because beeswax makes harder candles, but is expensive, but this place sell all different types of candle making wax, is candlesandsupplies.com. They are a wholesale company, and sell candle and soap making supplies.

Hillbilly Bill- did not think of that. I always thought I’d barter with toliet paper!!!

Carrey in VA – at 10:15

Homemade apple butter is far and away better than anything you find at the store … and I live fiddling with the flavorings/spices to make each batch just a bit different.

You can also make “butters” from other fruits as well … some of my favorites are pumpkin, pear, and peach.

another candle supply company

I think I’m going to start saving jelly jars and other small glass containers for candle making.

Hillbilly Bill – at 10:28

HBB You would want to confirm that the jars you are using will not crack with the heat which may cause a fire if the candle is no longer contained in the broken jar.

Closed for length and continued here

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