I have brought this up before in previous threads, but I feel it warrants repeating. It is ESSENTIAL to practice what you plan to do. Granted, it is not convenient to go into full SIP mode with no utilities, and that is not necessary to try out your strategies. Do you have alternative means of cooking? Try them out to make sure what you have will work. Plan to harvest rainwater? Set up your equipment and give it a try. Have a generator and/or battery bank to supply essential power? Better give it a test run. Are you planning on alternative means of sanitation? Try it out for a weekend. Believe me, I have found gaping holes in what I thought were well-planned preparations. How frustrating would it be to realize you need some inexpensive item from the hardware or department store to make your plan work and now you can’t go get it? Planning is the starting point, we need to make sure we don’t stop there.
For instance, I though a sterno stove and my gas grill would take care of my cooking needs if the natural gas supply failed. I soon found out that the sterno stove was great for warming up soups and stews but took forever to get a pot of water boiling. The gas grill was unbelieveably wasteful of precious propane. A $20 cast iron propane camping grill filled the need nicely. Good thing I found out that I needed it now rather than later.
Anybody else want to share some discovered holes in their prepping?
I practiced what I would do in cold weather if the power and heat were off.
What worked for me (on nights where the temperature got down to 20 degrees F) was a minimum of 3 layers of clothing (none of which are cotton), 2 pairs of socks (also no cotton), down slippers, a hat and a pair of gloves and 4 layers of blankets. Flannel or fleece sheets also helped a lot.
Also I bought foam insulation panels that had reflective silver foil on one side (like the kind they use to insulate new homes, they are put into the walls before the drywall goes up) and built a squared off shelter around my bed, then draped blankets over the openings. I would have liked the ceiling of my shelter to have been taller, but then it would have been harder to keep it warm. I could make the shelter really toasty with a portable heater, but if there were no electricity, the heater would not be an option :)
HB,
I am planning on preheating water and canned goods with a solar cooker. I built my own solar dehydrator which will work to preheat things. I have a few rolls of foil to try out some of the do it your self cooker ideas on the net (cardboard, tape and foil). Even if I only cut down my cooking time by a minute or two fuel savings will add up over time. Of course you have to plan ahead and put the water out way before you want to cook.
centella at 08:45 Exactly, and that is the kind of information we need to know.
Another experience I had was with the 5 gallon solar shower I planned to use if the water supply is off. It does work, but 5 gallons is too much for one shower. Also, the water trickles out and the hose is so long that I had to hold it up which even further reduced the water flow. I ended up on my knees to get rinsed off. I think that a 2 gallon bucket with a cheap plastic showerhead attached to a pipe with a shut-off valve coming out of the bottom edge of the bucket will work much better. But I need to put that together now and test it. Imagine needing a $0.50 fitting and not being able to get it, or finding that your pipe glue has gone bad.
One more thing that was posted on the wiki site is to slow cook things in a thermos. Once you get what you are cooking to the boiling point you dump it into a thermos and seal. A few hours later you are ready to eat. In fact I am doing this today. I boiled some beans I sprouted for about 2–3 minutes an now they are in a thermos and will hopefully cook till lunch.
This was a good question, I had been wondering this myself for a week or so. Has anyone tried to go into full isolation for a week, with the kids, the DH or DW, the pets and such? That would be an interesting exercise for someone to attempt.
centella, keep in mind that it takes hours and hours for something to cook in a solar cooker — it can be a ‘put food in this the morning for tonight’s supper’ type delay!
chillindame at 09:05 I believe flourbug, her DH and the kids did a test weekend. They pretended to shut off the power and cooked all meals outside, practiced limited water scenarios and such. I remember her saying that EVERYTHING they did took a LOT more time.
I purchased flashlights with LEDs instead of normal light bulbs. They were supposed to work for dozens or hundreds of hours on three AAA batteries. We started using them during our rolling blackouts and found that they do NOT last very long. I have since purchased a big box of triple A batteries.
Good point, I have also realized that a bottle of lamp oil (liquid parafin) does not goes as far as I thought it would. I put 5 gallons of clear kerosene away as backup.
Hillbilly Bill - where did you find your propane cast iron camping grill? And is it a grill or a griddle? I’ve found a cast iron camping grill that uses charcoal, but nothing for propane. Thanks for your help.
Something I learned a long time ago…if you’re using wood for cooking or heating your home you need to use ‘seasoned’ wood, not ‘green’ wood. Green wood is wood that is relatively freshly cut and will burn, but gives off much less heat than seasoned- you can’t even boil water with it, tho in a pinch it’s better than nothing. Seasoned wood is wood that has been cut the previous year and allowed to dry out and age a bit before use. If you don’t have seasoned wood stocked and have to go looking for wood in the bush try to find deadfall that isn’t too old. These are trees and branches that have died, but aren’t rotten(rotten feels kind of soft and spongy).
If you’re planning to use wood heat, start stocking now! Feel free to cut the bulk of it with a chainsaw for expediency- but make sure you use the ‘people-powered’ kind for some of it. It will give you an appreciation of how much time and effort it takes to do it without power tools.
Albert - I used a headlight from REI that uses LEDs and three AAA batteries while working up in the attic on an insulation project for probably close to 100 hours (don’t believe anybody who says you can do it in one day unless you have a very simple roof design!). The light now seems just as bright as when I started.
Saddle Tramp: I got it here. This is the deluxe model, I couldn’t find the one I got with a quick look, maybe it is out-of-stock.
If you have vegetable oil, you have light. A pint mason jar w/lid filled with vegetable oil serves as the fuel bowl. Punch a very small hole in the center, say finishing nail-sized, and thread through a cotton string. Light the string and the lamp should burn four days. The light is weak, but enough to find your way room to room.
I cooked dinner Monday night a la SIP. All the ingredients are in my preps. First I mixed up a quick bread recipie-2 cups self rising flour, 2 Tablespoons Soy flour (egg replacement), Ό cup powdered milk (dry), handful of quick cook oatmeal, sprinkle of salt, and some dried onion- (the soy flour has a slight off taste that we’re still getting used to, for breakfast bread, I use cinnamon) then enough water to bring to muffin-batter consistency-about a 1/3 to ½ cup. I have a heavy cast aluminum Nordic Ware scone pan divided into sections and very dark-perfect for a solar oven. Unfortunately, for this particular day, it was raining. (Another thing to plan around and think about!) I just popped it into my regular oven but if we had no electric I could just fry the bread like pancakes, or the Navaho Fry bread. I’m trying to develop some no egg/no milk bread recipes.
While the bread was baking, I cooked the Easy Mac and cheese recipe that Kathy in FL posted. I used a large (4 qt) pot and cooked the macaroni. Poured off the excess macaroni water into a smaller pan, set a collapsible steamer in that pan, and steamed some Swiss chard that I grew in my garden. While that was steaming, I mixed up the rest of the Mac and cheese, in the larger pot. When the chard was done, I poured off the cooking water into a glass jar. This water now has vitamins from the chard and some starch/salt/oil or butter from the cooking pasta. Later, I will heat this up add some ramon noodles and seasoning, any left over veggies I might have, and some small cubes of tofu or a beaten egg-(like egg drop soup) for protein and have a good soup for lunch. This is a tip I got from MFK Fisher and I use it all the time.
Getting back to dinner-I served everything in their pots. If I had no electric, I would put a kettle on the Coleman burner to heat (for dishes) while we were eating-because it does take a long time! After dinner, I did the washing up in the bigger pot (to save water) and let the dishes dry in a dish rack. I have a family of four. There were two scones left (out of eight) which I saved in a Zip-Loc. No other left overs-poor dog! The chard trimmings and cardboard macaroni box (torn into little pieces) went into the compost. The only trash was the soup can, rinsed and put into recycling bin. We don’t have recycling pickup-we have to take it away ourselves so I have three HUGE trash cans that I use for this-taking the recycling in will be one of the last things I do WSHTF because 1-I’ll need the cans empty, but also 2 the recycling place is right by the stores I’ll go to to “Top off” I wouldn’t have thought of that without the test.
IMO, it is the simple things we will need rather than complex machinery when we have to SIP. Without a test run, you really can’t determine what those items will be.
If you’re planning to grow some of your own food and you’re something of a novice(maybe even if you’re not:-) plant at least a small amount of the different veggies, etc. you plan to grow. Keep track of how much water you need to supplement rainfall with(get some rain barrels now). Keep track of how much yield you get per plant so you can accurately guage how many you will need to provide for your family. Grow a bit extra to practice saving seeds and keep track of how much seed you get per plant as well.
Every area has a bit different climate, find out what works(and doesn’t) where you live.
Start and maintain a compost heap if you don’t already have one.
Make sure you have all of the necessary tools, oil them well for winter storage to prevent rusting(cooking oil works great).
Practice different preservation methods- drying, canning, cold storage, etc.
Don’t forget to have fun, gardening is a great stress reliever:-)
Green Mom, don’t you love MFK Fisher!? I’ve read most everything she wrote. Lily, you would really like her.
MaMa at 10:18 Gardening and preserving the food you grow definitely has a learning curve. There are disappointments as well as unexpected benefits along the way.
Another rude awakening came when I tried out the solar battery charger I bought. Imagine my surprise when I discovered that it would take a WEEK of sunny days to recharge 4 AA batteries.
You also need to think about spare parts and tools. All of you with shiny new generators- Do you have spare spark plugs and oil? Do you have an oil drain jug? Remember that all machines neeed servicing, and once you start SIP, you’re on your own.
A few years ago, we lost power in a ferocious winter storm, and to keep heat on (all electric house) I had to run the genny in the bad weather. The carburetor iced up and stalled out the genny. This caused the spark plug to foul. No problem with a spark plug wrench and spare plug. Otherwise, it would have been a much less pleasant couple of days.
How often do you need to change oil in your various power driven equipment? Do you have a stock of oil?
How about 2-cycle oil for those chain saws and smaller implements?
Fuses? Not only for obvious things, but also for cars and jumper packs. You will be attempting to run thiings using car electrical systems. A single brush of a wire with another could blow a fuse. Do you have enough spares of the right values?
Enough radios (both receivers and 2-way)? How about if your family or group needs to split up for some reason in the future as yet inanticipated.
Many, Many more batteries than you think you could possibly need. (I buy them in commercial job lots. It’s so much cheaper than retail, and we generally go through hundreds in a year between cameras, wireless mice, Gamboys, radios, etc.)
Tools. As I said before, plug wrench. plumbing tools. Wood cutting tools. Sheet metal tools and flashing metal to help rig someting as yet unanticipated.
Nails, screws fasteners of all descriptions, glue, duct tape, duct tape, duct tape…
Excuse me. GAMEBOYS. While I am indeed a Gamboy, that is another thread entirely. (And for you young enough not to get the reference, that’s OK).
Hillbilly Bill, We too have relied on propane without testing it. We have a burner eye on our gas grill. Did you have one when you did your test run? I had hoped that it would conserve propane.
Hillbilly Bill - how did you figure out the length of time needed to solar charge your batteries?
Hillbilly Bill, I hear ya. It can be a real adventure to try out new things. This thread is a great idea! It’s so much better to learn these things when our mistakes can be funny stories to tell and not a life and death error.
On the subject of gardening I’d like to add- if there is a local gardening club, farmer’s market, etc. consider joining up(if time and inclination allows that is:-) You will learn lots and lots of things that you might never learn from a book. It would give you more social contact in your community and could possibly be a starting point for co-operative community preparedness.
Worried in the City at 10:45 I do not have a burner eye on my gas grill so that is what caused the problem. I assumed I could just use half of the main burner and get a pot of water boiling in no time. It is dangerous to assume such things when your life depends on it.
Mari at 10:47 There was a rather unclear chart with the battery charger that gave me my first inkling that recharging was not a quick process. However, to complicate the problem, I don’t live in an optimum area for solar and also the charger has to be oriented pretty well with direct sunlight. I kept testing the batteries with a voltage meter until it indicated they were fully charged.
MaMa at 10:57 You are so right. Many times I tried to grow what I wanted to grow (melons, cauliflower, etc.) only to be sadly disappointed. I learned through experience that I could grow all the potatoes, squash, corn and greenbeans that I could ever want.
Cooperative community preparedness is the way to go.
Eccles at 10:38 If there is one thing I have learned from fluwiki, it is that Eccles always has wise counsel.
Hillbilly 8:54 - If amount of water usage is your concern, try putting the heated water from the solar shower in a “never used” garden/plant food sprayer. The one which you can pressurize with a couple of pumps of its built in plunger. Then you can use the sprayer to wet and rinse. Should use much less water.
Rock at 11:24 Water usage wasn’t the problem, it was the pathetic little dribble of water that came out of the solar shower. Five gallons was way too much water for one shower, what I need is a smaller amount to come out quicker. I’ll put together some ugly contraption that will work better for my needs.
Hillbilly Bill at 11:29
If it is the matter of hole size on the flow valve, try heating a needle and then using the hot needle to make the size of the hole larger.
That’s what I did as my kids would graduate from newborn nipples to larger size. I had two (of the five) that would suck so hard on a nipple that they would collapse a bottle. Both of them are still fast drinkers. <grin>
Necessity is the mother of invention.
Concerning gardening-one trick to remember for preventing “wilt disease” for cucumbers, squash, and melons, (which will kill your vine at an early stage), is to keep the baby vine lightly dusted with sevin dust continuously on to the producing stage. After each rain or watering you need to reapply the dust after the plant dries.
Army worms can sometimes attack your onion plants, too, in the spring, and a dusting with sevin will solve that problem, too. You have to be closely monitoring your plants at all times.
And with potatoes when the vine leaves start getting holes in them you will find upon inspection that potato bugs are the problem. Often, if you have enough wrens around they will solve that problem. But, if not, you can physically remove and squash the bugs and their grubby offspring. It does not take too long to police a long row of potatoes.
And for your emerging rows of green beans, buy a roll of chicken wire and fold the ends of a section to form a “tunnel” that you can cover the row with to keep the rabbits and deer from nibbling off the young shoots. As the plant grows raise the “tunnel” off of the ground and suspend it just above the plants with a series of small diameter electric fence posts that can be easily shoved into the loose soil. The deer won’t figure out that they can reach under the tunnel, and by that time the rabbits will not find the more mature plants tasty.
Just a few tips for any beginner gardeners.
We’ve tried most of our prep techniques. The home-made solar oven works great but it does take a few hours of good sun to cook some things. It means you need to put something into the oven by 11 am for later afternoon eating, it does not cook like a regular oven, and it works better in summer than winter. But sun is sun, and you can cook in the sun even if its cold outside. Its just less efficient because in winter the angle is lower. And if the sun goes away during cooking, you will need a back-up source of heat. You will have to experiment with the right cooking pots too. We have found closed canning jars painted black work best, but dont tighten them all the way so pressure cant build. For that we will use a home-made alcohol burning stove made from 2 empty cat food cans. Very simple to make (lots of plans out there), and works very well. We had to tinker with pot stands for this more than anything else.
While simple thermos cooking was a big disappointment for me, using a haybox has been a great, wonderful discovery. A haybox is a well-insulated box into which you place a pot with tight-fitting lid with boiling contents, and then cover with more thick insulation. I’ve now tried several designs, and the one that works best is one of those styrofoam boxes that shipped meats come in -with added insulation. Look at yard sales for these, or perhaps one of those cheap icechests seen in the summer. This has worked so well to save energy that I use it for general cooking now too. Broth making, beans, rice, pasta, stews,any long simmering item at low temp. What I found is there is a big difference between just softening up something as with thermos ‘cooking’, and actually cooking it. Rice and beans actually need some cooking time (boiling) to taste good, but the use of a haybox after about 5–6 min of boiling works for rice. Less for pasta. Some things like soaked beans that take a very long overall cooking (sitting) time (but less initial boiling), sometimes need to be brought back to a second boil after a couple hours for a second long sitting. But you need to experiment for each kind of food you try to cook using a haybox - each needs a different strategy to be most efficient. And dont open the box just to check - you’ll lose too much of your heat. This is where practice with a real stove back-up comes in handy.
We also tried solar lighting for the garden for house light, but even with full exposure for hours, the light was so dim and lasted only a brief time, we returned them, and with the money, got more wind-up flashlights from costco. And there are always the numerous candles I’ve collected over the years at yard sales. :-)
My lesson is to pay no attention to the “approximate serving size” on recipes or boxes.
Each family is different. Trust me, I’ve run into many recipes that should have made 4 servings that only made 2.5 or 3 instead. Kids go through growth spurts and physical activity demand high caloric intake.
Man or woman, if you don’t cook much now, you need to practice before things turn into a SIP (“shelter in place”) situation. Being SIP is not when you want to learn how to add diversity to your cooking skills.
Learn to cook flat bread if nothing else. A little flat bread will go a long way toward making meals of soup and veggies more palatable.
MaMa at 10:57
I don’t know if this is true for everyone, but in my immediate areas, the garden clubs are for nice senior citizen and up-aged ladies who like to beautify their homes and the public areas of town with pretty flowers (and I live in an agricultural area). They were NO help in areas like vegetable gardening (one of them even said that thanks to our modern way of living, growing vegetables was the job of the grocery store suppliers!), container gardening (unless you count growing pretty flowers), xeriscaping (water conserving landscaping), keeping up an orchard, etc. Out here the county extension agent is the clueful one about gardening for food etc.
Hillbilly Bill at 11:04
As for what you want to grow versus what you can grow, you need to be aware that what grows will change from season to season and year to year. Due to our unusually cool and rainy weather this season, salad greens, broccoli, cauliflower, and peas are flourishing this year, asparagus yields have been low (not warm enough although the spears I get are really fat ones) and tomatos, corn & peppers are struggling right now (due to the cold)
Wasn’t it Thomas Jefferson who said something like “though I am an old man, I am but a young gardener”?
Felicia at 10:28 MFK Fisher is one of my favorite writers. I’m re-reading her “How to cook a wolf” to pull out some more ideas.
For those of you who havn’t read Fisher-she’s a great writer, but of particular interest to this group is a book she wrote in 1942 “How to cook a wolf” to help British housewifes cope with cooking during the War what with rationing, blackouts, all sorts of nasty things. It was revised, slightly, in the 50′s and is still in print. Its a great book to help you feel more human in really bad times.
Ive had the same-less than wonderful experience with the solar shower :-( but we (husband and I) really like our LED flashlights.
Its amazing what things you will discover. This year I tried starting ALL my garden from seeds-I didn’t buy any plants. I have done seed starting in the past and so thought no big deal. Who would have thought kitty would take a fancy to BROCCOLI!!!! seedlings and eat them all!?!?! Did she eat the “Cosmic Kitty Herbs” that I planted JUST FOR HER? Or the Catnip? no way. A great resourse for gardners at any level is your local county extention office. I went to a great program on heirloom gardens presented by CE this last March, and some counties have Master Gardener rograms.
Another lesson(s), with regard to food.
Try and mix it up with some regular staple items and some “instant” items.
For instance, the difference between rice and instant rice. They both have their pros and cons, but I’ve found it is worth storing both. While instant rice is easy and filling, I certainly want to use it all the time … some dishes just taste better with regular rice. Regular rice is also more filling if that is an issue … and versatile which could be another issue.
Also, those powdered drink mixes are convenient, but also try and stock at least some canned/bottled fruit (and/or fruit mix) drinks as well. They’ll help you manage your water storage and they’ll add some needed nutrition (or at least fruit servings) to your diet.
Start trying out recipes on your family now. See which ones they like and which ones they’ll give you heck over. Sure, in a hard up situation like SIP beggars can’t be choosers … but its nice to prep for everyone’s comfort and preferences as well.
And last but not least, keep some Imodium, Pepto Bismol, and fiber pills on hand. <grin> Not matter how much practicing your do, stress can upset your stomach … especially if you are already prone in that direction.
Medical Maven at 12:02
I find that not moving the cucumber & melon vines around too much helps with the wilt problem and the yields. I am not using sevin because it’s not organic and who knows if I would be able to get it once a SIP event happens. I have stocked up on household supplies based on the suggestions of Jerry Baker’s books on gardening the way his grandmother used to (i.e. his fertilizers tend to use liquid ammonia to supply nitrogen instead of conventional fertilizers, powdered milk for calcium for tomatos to prevent blossom end rot, a mix of cayenne pepper and flour dusted on a variety of veggies to prevent a variety of bug infestations, taking potato beetles, killing them, whirling them up in with water in an old blender and spraying the liquid on potato plants etc.) His website is http://www.jerrybaker.com
I am growing cukes on a trellis made of chicken wire fencing this year — will let you know how my yields turn out. I do know with cukes you should pick them early and often (and if need be on the small side) to keep them producing.
For deer/rabbit/groundhog deterrent, urine around the garden border works great (people urine, cat urine, dog urine) Also cat hair is an excellent deterrent for rabbits/squirrels/groundhogs.
Green Mom at 12:10
One of my felines is partial to tomatos (also tomato juice and tomato sauce). He turned up his nose at broccoli (even my home grown stuff) but he will eat salad greens (lettuce, spinach, mustard) and celery seedlings.
Oh and when this same cat was sick with a respiratory type thing (probably a reaction to one of his required vaccinations), I fed him room temperature chicken & vegetable baby food (my vet recommended baby food to keep him eating and keep his weight up, when sick some cats lose interest in their cat food). Since both of my cats loved it, I stocked up on some to use as treats and to use should one of them get sick again
MaMa at 09:46 MaMa knows of which she speaks. If you are planning on using a wood fire as a backup of any kind, (cooking, heating), you should practice what you plan to do. For the novice I have this simple bit of advice: It will be at least twice as much work as you thought it would, and take three times as much wood.
Also remember what’s-his-name’s rule …
if it can go wrong, it will
so always have a back up plan. <grin>
“so always have a back up plan”
and practice the plan.
anonymous at 12:09, you are very correct that some garden clubs focus exclusively on ornamentals- others don’t. The point is to find local experienced contacts if you can, especially when you are just starting out. I’m glad you found the extension agent:-)
Some other options to gain experience locally:
-volunteer at a local organic or market garden.
-start a community garden project with some of your neighbors. Many towns and cities will allow use of certain public areas for this purpose, or you may be able to find a private owner who would donate the space. Consider partnering with a local youth group in this. A tremendous asset in building community relationships.
I know that your season statement was directed to Hillbilly Bill, but I’d like to comment if you don’t mind. Yes, every year is somewhat different- one year will be wetter, drier, earlier or later frosts, etc. The idea is to get used to growing food in your area. I would not want to base my family’s survival on book learnin’ alone. Experience will teach you 1000 times more than mere reading. For instance, we can’t grow corn in my area most years, the frost-free season is about 2 weeks short- it won’t ripen. Just a 2.5 hour away drive south they grow so much corn that there is an annual festival to celebrate it. In books, these 2 communities are listed as the same ‘zone’, but there is a world of difference in the reality of the situation.
anon: I know a lot of people like the organic route, but a little sevin dust goes a long way, and a small supply will last forever even with a large garden. I think in a crisis situation you would want to strive for peaik production with a minimum of expenditure of time and effort.
I use pesticides very sparingly and only when absolutely necessary. And there are the studies showing that the nutrition of vegetables and fruits are enhanced by being attacked and stressed in that manner. You just don’t want to let the infestation to go too far so that the plant doesn’t die or the yield is drastically diminished.
I second the comment about practicing carrying water. I find the 2-gal bucket is all I want to handle per arm.
MaMa at 12:37
I found that finding greenhouses and nurseries in my area (and no I don’t mean the garden department of my local big-box discount or hardware store) are very helpful sources of advice if you can’t get to a county extension agent. People who are growing plants as their business’s sole focus are pretty well informed as to what will grow (the college kid working for tuition money or the senior citizen supplementing their income at a big box store are unlikely to have the training and experience — besides the big boxes will just stop carrying garden supplies if they aren’t profitable enough).
I don’t disagree that experience is the best teacher, but learning from someone else’s experiences (especially someone who grows things in your area) can be quite a time saver. I’ve been seriously gardening now for 3 years and by hearing about my neighbor’s ‘garden mishaps’, there are mistakes I avoided (like not losing warm weather requiring plants due to late frosts, which here can occur as late as May 15th).
Medical Maven at 12:38
Since I have a 30′ x 60′ garden, it takes more Sevin than you might think. If I had no other options, then yes I’d use Sevin. But there are plenty of things you can do to mitigate bug problems (planting plants during the timeframe recommended for your area, keeping the weeds down, etc, checking your garden frequently for the first signs of pests and disease). And a lot of the things I store to use in the garden can be used for other purposes (ammonia for cleaning, powdered milk for cooking, etc). Sevin I can only use as an insecticide
It’s true that a little stress can help a plant but SHTF is not the time to learn how much stress is the plant’s tipping point.
If SHTF and you have to SIP, you will have a lot of time to devote to your garden and pest control (and maybe not as much stored stuff like Sevin or ready made fertilizers) so doing labor intensive gardening to practice makes sense (not to mention it’s fantastic exercise).
Oh and experience has taught me that tomato cages are worthless for supporting tomatos. I flip tomato cages upside down to use as pea trellises (i.e. wider end sits on ground while narrower end is up in the air and pea plants are trained to grow up the cone shaped cages) and use chicken wire fencing and metal fence posts to support tomatos (which get powdered milk dustings every 3 or 4 weeks or so during the growing season.
Last night DH and I decided to “practice” our SIP plans. First was dinner! Thought we had lots and lots of preps - NOT!
The choice was Spam, tuna, canned ham, vienna sausage for a meat. DH made a face! Next, we seem to have an abundance of mac & cheese. Thought I could fool him and put the vienna sausage in the Mac & Cheese! NOT!!!!!
Then went to the veggie course. Hmmmm - seems to be beans, beans and more beans! Oh, look I have corn, too!
So we had Mac & Cheese with vienna sausage and corn for dinner. Not exactly what my diabetic husband needs on a regular basis - but it did work. Canned fruit for dessert. Cooked this on camping stove using propane.
Garbage - had 3 paper plates (one to slice the sausages), 3 plastic forks, 2 plastic knives, box and cheese package from Mac & Cheese, 1 can from corn, 1 can from fruit, several paper towels, 2–3 paper napkins. Basically had about 1/3 of a kitchen size garbage bag full of garbage.
Dishwashing - using 1 cup of water heated on camping stove (measured) washed & rinsed 1 small pot & lid, 2 plastic cups, 2 plastic bowls.
Leftovers - about 1/2 of the “gruel” as DH called it, about 1/2 of the corn, leftover macaroni water, leftover fruit juice. Stored leftovers in small ice chest with ice. Can use the leftovers for lunch (at work today). Will DH eat it today for lunch? Uhhhh - no!
Rethinking this - should have used own knives and forks not plastic ones. Using too many paper products. Need more variety in canned vegetables - too many starches. Need more variety in meats.
Anyone else tried this? Thoughts?
Bluebonnet - My plan is to use canned meat/fish only for flavoring or occasional treats. Beans, rice, pasta, and corn can provide the necessary protein. It sounds like your DH needs to be eased into eating differently. The recipes that Kathy in FL and others are posting may end up being the most useful part of the wiki! If your husband likes salsa, you might try livening up your stored food meals with that.
Bluebonnet at 13:18 DW and I have made it a habit to have about two dinners each week straight from the prep shelf. Granted, the variety is not fantastic, but we have come up with some meals we really like. Canned roast beef and gravy over egg noodles is tasty and my favorite is fried sliced canned potatoes cooked with canned corned beef. We also really like our home canned chili and when you serve it over rice it makes a complete meal.
anon at 13:00, I suspect we’re talking the same language:-)
Bluebonnet, some suggestions- use 2 plates, cut the sausage on one- give your hubby his share- then what’s left is already on your plate….. if you like tomatoes try some canned ones on top the mac and cheese, stewed ones are even better(with peppers and onions, yum!)….. You might not have refrigeration later- drink the leftover juice, cook less quantity if you can to reduce spoilage…..for meat variety try canned beef in gravy, it can be a welcome change from the Spam and tuna. It also makes a good base for soup/stew to add water and toss your leftover veggies into.
My number one food tip- visit KathyinFl’s ‘Recipes Using Canned Dry Goods Only-Part 3′ and previous threads. She is THE food guru here at flu wiki. Read through and copy anything that you think you’d like/fits your dietary needs- your spouse will thank you.
anon: Good advice. And as far as weeding goes, a novice mistake is to tackle the grasses and weeds when they see a “green carpet”. You want to be hoeing those grasses and weeds and shoveling the loose dirt towards the stem of your vegetables BEFORE you see that “green carpet”. Get down close to the earth and when you see the emerging weeds and grasses go after them. Weeds use fertilizer and water. And by tackling them in the almost microscopic stage they are easier to cover with loose dirt.
If you are not a hoer, you are not a gardener, and it will be a disaster. Plain and Simple.
And then you mulch when the weather gets hot. I have found that straw or low-grade alfalfa works well, and in the Fall you want to incorporate that partially rotted material into the soil for tilth and nutrients for the next year’s garden. You can deep-spade the material or rototill it to incorporate it.
Medical Maven at 13:44
I love my scuffle hoe (sometimes called a hula hoe or a stirrup hoe)! Where I garden it is VERY rocky so a conventional hoe is likely to just dig up more rocks. The scuffle hoe is stirrup-shaped and mostly knocks down the weeds and leaves big rocks where they are. Also you push a scuffle hoe back & forth across the surface of the soil rather that hacking away at the ground with a conventional hoe.
There’s a picture of a scuffle hoe at: Scuffle Hoe or http://www.epinions.com/hmgd-Lawn_and_Garden-Hand_Tools-All-True_Temper_Scuffler_Scuffle_Hoe
Thanks for the suggestions all! Yes, I have been following Kathy’s recipes as well. This was just a “let’s try it on the fly” thing. Didn’t think about the canned tomatoes I have. The canned beef in gravy is an EXCELLENT tip!
Yes, DH DOES need to change his attitude - but think that hunger will be a great motivator.
As I said, it was very interesting because we had not really cooked with only the preps before. During Rita, we still had electricity, water, all the luxuries of life. So I was able to supplement the prep supplies with frozen foods and fresh foods. This was an eye opener for both of us.
Because there are only 2 of us, I’m afraid the leftover thing will be something to deal with. Usually, cold mac & cheese in my house doesn’t last long. Yes, I will use the water and fruit juice for other purposes. In a real situation, I would just dump the mac & cheese into a pot with the leftover water and add some herbs and veggies and make soup.
I am really glad we tried this little experiment. DH is suggesting that we try this at least once a week and come up with meals that are not only easy to prepare but that also produce less garbage and use less fuel. Should be an interesting experiment and I am happy to have some time!
Thanks all!
I am so not a hoe. I “lasagna” garden instead. ;)
Im-workin-on-it at 09:09
yes, solar cooking is sloooow. That is why I am planning to use it to preheat and then do the real cooking with propane.
Didn’t Eric Clapton do a song about that: “It’s alright, it’s alright, it’s alright,….Propane.
Albert at 09:11
C cell & d Cell led flash light work for a long time. AAA probably will not.
See 400 hour flashlight thread
Centella at 15:08 Its alright, its alright, its alright, .Propane.”
LOL !!!! I needed that this afternoon!
Chillindame- I garden “lasangna” style also-, but I also enclose my beds as much as possible-I have several made of concete blocks, several DH made for me from locust posts, I grow heat loving veggies-tomatos, peppers, squashes, in tires-one squash plant per tire works really well excet my “salsa” garden peppers tomitillos cilantro all in one huge tractor tire. I even have a bath tub garden-an old salvaged cast iron bathtub, next to the back door with cut and come again lettuces and greens, radishes, green onions etc. I have terrible soil-thick heavy clay full of rocks-so These beds are built up with compost and mulch and a little peat moss and then some more mulch!
I also have a wide tempature extreame at my house. The north garden in frount of my house sits in a frost pocket and is exposed. The south garden, behind the house sits in a sunny little sheltured area-thats where the clothes line, solar oven etc are. About a hundred yards apart and two seperate little mini-enviroments.
Anonymos at 12;30-Thanks for the kitty babyfood tip-Kitty does sometimes get respritory infections-especially if its really hot. Sometimes I wish she would take a little less intrest in her food-she’s getting to be a real porker. I discovered the kids were over feeding her-which she loved!
OK, I can say that I have tried out my alternative sanitation plan, a 5 gallon bucket with a snap-on toilet seat. I am going the “trash-bag-liner-RV-chemical-toilet-packet” route. It wasn’t the most comfortable seat I have ever had, but the sanitation aspects were quite acceptable. I used it for a weeeknd,(DW wanted no part of this trial), and then disposed of the bag.
A lot of people have talked about cedar chips and kitty litter. Anybody really “field tested” theirs yet?
Hey, the baby food thing is great for giving medications in as well…..I had a capsule of Duralactin that I’d give my 22 year old for arthritis & I’d sprinkle it on baby food, stir it in and she’d lick it up every time. Some meds have too strong a taste but it’s worth a try because it’s a LOT more friendly than trying to pill a cat!
Bluebonnet, I bought a tiny fridge at Walmart for $29 I think it was, VERY small but just perfect for left-overs for 2 people — just like my husband and me. It ALSO HEATS as well & runs off your car battery if need be so it could help keep you from using your fuel to reheat stuff.
Thanks for the tip about powdered milk on tomatoes…I have six plants that I’m nursing & one of them is waining. I’ll powder them all & keep an eye on them — I have no idea what all problems you can have growing tomatoes — my first time — so thanks!
Green Mom at 15:44
You’re welcome — but for my cat’s reaction to his recent shot, I wouldn’t have known about the baby food. He’s a very big boy (20 lbs!) but he’s also very long (over 2 feet long and that’s minus his tail!) and lean (I can easily feel his ribs and his tummy doesn’t sag) and not overweight. He will eat though if he’s healthy.
Im-workin-on-it at 16:01
By any chance are you a smoker or chewing tobacco user? If you are, you may want to add some water to some powdered milk and dunk your hands in it before working with your tomato plants. Tomatos are very susceptible to tobacco mosaic virus (TMV) which a smoker/tobacco user could have on his or her hands and unintentionally pass to a tomato plant. For some reason TMV is knocked out by milk, so this is another way to use powdered milk in gardening. Gotta practice good plant hygiene along with good people hygiene :)
The only other things I can think of is either some kind of wilt (like verticulum or fusarium - these are fungal diseases) in which case you’ll have to pull up the plant (no cures for either kind of fungal wilt), temperature issues (if it’s too cold, the plants can wilt) or maybe you’re underwatering the plants (in which case the plants should have yellow leaves).
Any other gardeners here want to take a stab at diagnosing sick tomato plants?
Hillbilly Bill at 09:10
chillindame at 09:05 I believe flourbug, her DH and the kids did a test weekend. They pretended to shut off the power and cooked all meals outside, practiced limited water scenarios and such. I remember her saying that EVERYTHING they did took a LOT more time.
My husband and I were laid off from our jobs and decided it would be a good time to take our two children on a tour of the US. We sold off everything, bought an RV and hit the road on August 31, 2001 - first stop, to visit my relatives in NJ. Of course, we arrived just in time to witness the WTC attacks. My family has property in upstate NY, which was long neglected. We headed west, and spent a couple of months dry camping - the rv had all the comforts of home, just had to ration our use so we could stay out longer - but we kept getting calls from relatives who thought we should come back and get the place in NY in shape. If TSHTF, we needed a family retreat. It was not so much a matter of agreeing as being the only people who were in a position to do the work. So we headed back northeast.
We had just cleaned up the small cabin, ripped out the old baseboard heaters, laid a new floor, and we were in process of ripping out the kitchen and bathroom, etc., when my husband’s mother called. His dad was rushed to the hospital with a ruptured hernia. She was hysterical and wanted him to come home. They have a huge cattle ranch and she needed her son. In retrospect, I should have gone with my husband. But I told him we’d be fine in the cabin, go help mom and hurry home. I expected him to be gone a month, at most. So, he ran in a small electric line, put the satellite up so we could have internet and tv, and did a supply run to stock us with a food until he got back. Welllll… there were complications and the weeks stretched into months, the winter passed, then summer… and I was living on the top of a mountain, surrounded by dense forest, in what was not much more than a garage with a fireplace, toilet, and running ice cold water. With two kids and assorted animals. I was able to work, and keep in touch with my husband through the internet, and I knew how to grow food, and forage (the property used to be an old farm so there were plenty of trees and berry bushes as long as I didn’t mind scaring off the wildlife to get to it), and I got to be an expert at chopping wood. But the only time I saw other people was once a week or so, if the weather was nice, when I walked three miles into town to go to the market. You become a real selective buyer when you have to carry your purchases 3 miles home.
Eventually my husband returned, exhausted from playing cowboy, and then he had to finish the renovations. When we were all done it was clear TS had NOT HTF, so we had no reason to stay. We got back into the RV and hit the road, finally going to see the country… and the phone rang! This time, it was my father and sister who had been rushed to the hospital, badly injured in a car accident, needing our help. We said screw it, sold the RV, bought a house in Florida, and here we are…. prepping for Bird Flu.
sorry flourbug, I must have gotten that mixed up, your experience was definitely not a test weekend. Any specific shortages that you want to mention?
Grren Mom,
Have you ever tried potatoes inside of a tire? I did it when I was living on a farm and had great results. So easy to harvest too, no real digging to get to the taters. I grew red potatoes in the tire.
We did a weekend with no power. Me, Hubby and 4 kiddo’s I was gonna provide a link, but I can’t find it in the search. Can anyone help?
Hillbilly bill at 15;54-I use cedar chips for the litter box all the time. I bought a big bale-for five or six dollars and it lasts months. Much cheaper than kitty litter and my kitty took right to it. Smells a lot better too. I use the old chips as mulch on flower beds and around the perimeter of the garden.
Chillindame-yes, I do grow potatoes in tires and its works great!!!!
No offense taken, Hillbilly Bill, I get mixed up with who did what too. :)
I was in limbo between two worlds. Almost all of the modern conveniences I depended on, were gone. But on the other hand, I didn’t have the tools and equipment that allowed people in the pre-industrial age to maintain a home and feed their family. I can’t tell you how many times I found myself simply unable to do what was needed. Food wasn’t a problem. The problem was, what does one do with a dead deer and three bushels of fresh apples when one has no way of preserving any of it? There was plenty of wood to heat the house. But it was in the forest, not neatly stacked next to the fireplace. There was a general store three miles away. I had plenty of money and the store was well stocked. But I had to carry a 45 lb three year old there and back. I have seen hell. It is the fifth mile of a trip to the store, carrying a sleeping child over one shoulder, and a bag with a gallon of milk and half gallon of orange juice over the other, and it starts to rain. Freezing rain that turns the ground to ice.
Now, when I go shopping, I give preference to items that don’t require electricity and are made to last. Sometimes I have two versions that will do the same job - an electric can opener and manual. But I look at everything that way. A wind up clock is better than battery and battery is better than electric. A cast iron pot is better than steel. Down is better than an electric blanket. Hopefully the next time I am in a situation like that, I’ll be more prepared.
Hillbilly Bill, look into Thetford toilets. They have self contained and porta potty units. They aren’t as good as the porcelain throne in your bathroom but they really have to be better than getting a mature man to balance on a bucket filled with sawdust. Please, get that picture out of my mind. lol
I have a solar oven that I bought from the Solar Oven Society. I have used it to bake cakes, brownies, make chili, and bake acorn squash. I live in the Northeast and tested my solar oven multiple times on nice, sunny days earlier this spring. Everything cooked in three hours or less; most took two hours.
Last weekend, when temps were in the 80s, I baked whole wheat bread in 1.25 hours. The max temp I achieved in the oven was 312 degrees F, and the solar oven was resting out on my brick walkway (gets hot in the sun).
I have a built-in electric convection oven and LP range in my kitchen. Plan to use electric and solar to cook until we lose power (normally I don’t use the electric at all unless making huge meals or getting ready for holidays, but want to conserve other fuels for loss of power scenario). As back-up, I have a gas grill, sterno, wood for fireplace, and ceramic briquettes that I will heat in gas grill or in wood fire to use with a Dutch oven. But I plan to use my solar oven as a primary cooker to conserve LP and wood for dual-purpose use of cooking and heating in winter.
Solar cooking does take longer. But considering we won’t all be zipping off to appointments, what’s the problem? Everyone here is obviously very good at planning. So you have to plan to put dinner in the “oven” at 10 a.m. or 11 a.m.
The other outstanding feature of the solar oven I use is that it came with a WAPI (no idea what this stands for), which is a device you put in a container to tell you when the water has been fully pasteurized—i.e., it’s safe to drink. PLUS, when you cook food in the solar oven, it actually produces about a cup of water through condensation that you can drain off and save for later use.
Also, regarding using cast iron in solar cookers…it works, but thin-sided pots and pans work best. The solar oven I ordered came with two lidded, black & white speckled enamel tin pots that fit side-by-side in the cooker. Mason jars spray-painted black on the outside are good for making soups, pasteurizing water. And finally, cooking smaller amounts in multiple containers will allow the food to cook more quickly than using one large container with lots of food in it.
I also have been practicing canning meals my family likes. So far, so good, but it’s a long, pesky process.
That’s my $0.02. If anyone sees any holes in my plan, do tell! Thanks!
Being a backpacker helps me a lot with dry-runs of some stuff. I’ve got a method I like for making an inexpensive, dehydrated, just-add-water meal-in-a-bag which is my standard hot-meal camping fare. The “cooking” is a very small version of the haybox cooking that Mosaic described (and which I strongly recommend that people try for any dishes where the instructions call for boiling or simmering for a period of time). The method is to take dehydrated stuff for a meal, which can be any combination of rice, pasta, beans, TVP, dehydrated veggies, dehydrated meats, spices, etc. (one simple approach is to use about half of a box of Hamburger Helper — this is a good way to go if you want to just experiment with the method). Put the Dehydrated Stuff in a Ziploc freezer bag along with an appropriate amount of dehydrated ground beef (which you can make at home if you have a dehydrator) — don’t use other brands of freezer bags unless you’re sure they will hold up to boiling water; I’m not so sure about some off-brands’ “freezer-storage bags”, which seem kinda flimsy. Tuck the bag into a bag cozy — I use a Platypus water bag insulator that I bought way back when and never used for its intended purpose, but it’s perfect for this. Boil water (I do this on my incredibly tiny, cheap, simple and low-tech Esbit solid fuel stove), pour into bag, stir it (resist the temptation to close the bag and shake or smoosh; Bad Things Happen), and close up the bag. Close up the cozy and let it sit for 15 minutes or so. Open, grab your spork and eat! Yum!
Likewise, being a backpacker has taught me a lot about:
…and more.
Backpacking: a fun kind of dry run!
I’ve been doing enough dry-run cooking sessions to know that most people will underestimate the amount of food that they need for a given number of people over a given number of meals. Usually that isn’t a problem, but in a SIP scenario it could be a enormous problem. You really don’t want your preps to run out too quick, nor do you want to find out you have eleventy dozen bags of rice but nothing else.
I’ve also learned that charcoal is probably NOT the most efficient use of my money as far as a back up cooking method goes. At my primary location I’ll stick with electric until/if it becomes unavailable and after that go to propane. If we are at our secondary location then we can use fire pit and/or fireplace cooking, though even that isn’t very effecient.
Plan on cooking and cleaning taking much, much longer than it does now.
Kathy in FL at 15:17 nor do you want to find out you have eleventy dozen bags of rice but nothing else
Kathy,
I use that same measurement scale that you’re using!
This thread is just the nudge we needed. We have small children so we have practiced turning off all the electricty just to get them used to candle light (the three year old calls it “romantic night”) but that is all we have done. time to practice what we preach…
also for those with money to spare a composting toilet can be a great thing
katherine at 15:46 - time to practice what we preach
Amen to that! There are so many things that we are planning on doing differently that we MUST (at least within reason) try them out before hand. For instance, I plan on baking all of the bread we will need during SIP. I have 50lbs of flour stored away and that seemed like a lot. However, I just recently started making bread every day or so and I was shocked to see how quickly a 5lb bag of flour is emptied. Better now than later!
Hillbilly Bill at 15:59
And if you think that 5 lb. bag of flour goes quickly with a normal size family … you should see how quick it goes when you try and spread it out over a family of 7. LOL!
Everything is going quicker than I expected it to. <rolling eyes> I think all five of my kids were born with hollow legs and bottomless feet.
Kathy in FL - makes me question the propane and sterno I have stored.
Hillbilly Bill at 16:13
Yep. We’ll be eating a lot of one pot/one dish type meals with a bread or fruit on the side.
It will minimize clean up. Cooking will use less fuel (at least that is the plan) sense I will only be using one burner, and it will be filling. Those kinds of things can also be served over fillers like rice, bulgar, risotto, kasha, etc.
It will also be appealing - I hope - for the eye. Leftovers will be simpler to deal with also, if there are any. Just use any leftover soup as a base for the next meal’s stew, etc.
I’ve found that those recipes are easier to stretch out also … just add another can of veggies or a few more potatoes and the 4 to 6 servings stretch to 6 to 8 servings.
re flour and bread-
If you think that bread goes fast when it’s storebought, just wait until you start turning out fresh homemade bread and biscuits and such made with fresh ground flour. back in my college days, I shared a house with 3 other guys. In a typical week we went through a couple loaves. I started baking with storebought flour and our consumption went up to six or seven loaves a week. Bread made with fresh ground flour is even more enticing than storebought…. I beefed up out wheat purchase for jsut this reason.
I am going to bring out the Dutch Oven this coming weekend and see whether my old wood fire cooking skills have held up.
Dry Runs - I also put together a “Run Book” for each of the main things in the house
o Heat o Light o Cooking o Water (Drink, Wash, Flush) o Electricity o Gas o Phone o Comms o Food
o For Cooking:
o If Gas on, no elec - use stove, manual light with match.
o If Elec, no Gas - use Microwave or toaster Oven
o If No Elec, No Gas
o Propane Gas Grill - 3 tanks available
o Out of Propane - use Whisperligh campstoves (multi-fuel)
o Campstoves use WhiteGas or AutoGas
o Taking care of Sick
I know it sounds stupid, *but* last time we had a power outage, my wife said “I can’t use the stove!” “Why not?” “It won’t light…” “Use a match ..” “ ohh … “
annonx2 at 16:39
Actually that is a good idea. For me it is because since I am the primary caretaker in regard to food and such. If I am down … or out … for whatever reason, what I consider a “common sense” solution to a problem might be overlooked.
And I like the format as well … if this, then that … all in graduated effect/solution type answers. Simple enough that even most of my kids could understand it.
DEFINETELY NOT STUPID annon2 - at 16:39 I commend your “Run book” approach. When I lived in earthquake country I developed and printed out what I called “my Stupid List” because I know how dumb a big rush of adrenaline makes me. The format was similar to yours I think ie Structural damage do this…No damage do this, Fire do this….No fire do this….Injuries…Gas leak etc etc blah, blah I tried to visualize every different senario and prioritize actions to be taken. I made it very very simple, extra large type font and in sort of a flow chart all the way to having the truck fully loaded and monitoring radios, scanners etc with road map in hand. When the “big one” hit all that effort in planing and practicing paid off very well. You have obviously spent a lot of effort. I cant tell you how many times I revisited and revised my lists before the real test came that morning. But I can tell you that is was worth EVERY minute spent prepareing.
A pandemic event probably wont evolve THAT quick but parts of it certainly could: IE What do I do when the power goes off (tape freezer door shut, get out solar generator etc What if water pressure drops (shut off water heater inflow to preserve 60 gal in tank? fill tub? etc Media announces 1st US case (lock front door, lol etc
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