Forum: Todays Flu Prep

I’m not sure what number this one should be, or if we are starting all over again.

My Kill-A-Watt meter arrived today and I have been annoying my wife by measuring everything that has a plug on it. “Look how much the toaster uses honey!”

I got this meter for two reasons, one to see what I can run off of a battery bank and inverter setup. I am finding out it really is a matter of what I CANNOT run.

Secondly, I will measure what my wood furnace, gas furnace, refrigerator and freezer will use, both starting surge and normal operation, so that I can buy the appropriate sized generator.

I already have a generator that will run the central a/c plus fridge, bedrooms, etc. But I am also thinking long term replacing (supplementing) it with a solar system. I’m going to measure the appliances, computers, etc and figure out what is feasible for a grid-tie with battery backup. My Kill-a-Watt should be here next week. My maha 12v charger for AA batteries will be here Monday and I already have a 5W folding panel I have been charging my cell phone with.

I also picked up a 100pack of 5mm 27000CDM (or something like that) from ebay for $25. I’m going to turn some cheap drugstore flashlights into LED lights and try and make some living area flood lights that will work off of AA or 6V rechargables.

I need to replace my 8cell Sony boombox with a Grundig crank.

Most importantly I picked up a Taurus PT92AF at the last gun show. Now I just need to stock up some ammo.

HillBilly Bill – at 13:34 - you got me thinking. I just ordered the Kill-A-Watt, since I have my generator being delivered this Monday. I’ve read about this item on the FW (probably from one of your earlier posts) and should have ordered it sooner….but, I believe that I’ll be OK.

HillBilly Bill – at 13:34 - you got me thinking. I just ordered the Kill-A-Watt, since I have my generator being delivered this Monday. I’ve read about this item on the FW (probably from one of your earlier posts) and should have ordered it sooner….but, I believe that I’ll be OK.

too quick on the trigger.

I would also reccommend that preppers not overlook the deli at your local supermarket as a source for buckets and containers. I have gotten some very nice 2 gallon and 1 gallon buckets the last two trips to the store. Now that they know to save them for me, (lids especially), I expect to get even more.

I also installed a thermometer ($10 at lowes) on my older propane grill, fired up one burner at low and let it heat up, slowly increasing the heat to 375 degrees. I put in a pan of “instant” banana bread (powder, water, oil, egg) and let it bake on the top rack. It took an hour but came out perfect. I need to find a substitute for the egg and get a couple more pans and I can bake a couple loaves at a time. I’m also have been experimenting with a breadmaker I borrowed and am going to try some recipes from scratch with no power, hand kneeding, and baking in the grill.

It seems to me that if the power is off for an extended period because of a pandemic, running a generator for the number of hours each day that a freezer and refrigerator require to keep cold might be unwise. Generators are more or less noisy. Without normal traffic noises, with no jets passing overhead, with the televisions and stereos and air conditioners silent, even a quiet generator could be heard a long distance away. At the least, it advertises “Here is somebody who has a generator and lots and lots of gas.” Some hearers will add, “They probably have lots of food, too. But they’re still alive to start the generator - better take care of that first.” Similarly, lots of light at night when every other house is dark can attract unwanted attention, and will ruin your night vision. If it gets bad enough that the utilities crash, staying up after sunset - except for guard duty - will be a thing of the past.

If/When it hits the fan, it won’t be business as usual.

Oh, yeah - nopower - try weighing the tank on that grill before and after; it would be nice to know how many loaves you can bake with one 20 lb. tank. I have a propane stove, but the oven controls need AC. An inverter would do it, but just in case…

Good points all SIPCT. I live in FL. When all the hurricanes came through, folks that were lucky enough to have generators had a few problems. Everyone knew who they were cause you could hear them for miles. They’d run outside wondering why the power was failing when they can clearly hear the genny and were astounded to see a lawn mower humming away in its place.

Another thing to consider once the SHTF is grilling outside. The smell of cooking food will attract all kinds of attention after a while. Ditto on cigarettes. Yep, you are so right SIPCT. It won’t be business as usual.

SIPCT – at 17:45

Agreed about the noise a genset makes.

I have ordered a Kipor 2000W supposedly quiet portable genset. Does anyone know whether changing the muffler to a ‘quiet’ one (saw some on eBay) would reduce the noise even further, or this is as quiet as it gets.

I plan to run it sparingly, and only during the day to charge some batteries. Sustaining (with limited fuel storage) is the main challenge.

During the hurricanes in 04, we ran our generator about four hours in a 24 hour period. The small 5000 watt units produce more power than what a refrigerator or freezer needs. They are generally too small to run an air conditioner unless it is a window unit. I dropped a drop cord across the fence and shared power with my neighbor. He kept his fridge cool too.

A generator is a short term solution. With enough fuel, it will let you eat the food out of your freezer before it spoils. Once the food is gone, the gas would be better spent elsewhere.

I did not run the generator at night. As long as the unit was running, I watched it. I would not burn my last 5 gallons in a generator. I would save it for my camp stove and lantern.

Genset is only part of the plan, a good converter/charger and a battery bank will let you make the maximum use of your resources. Running genset to charge up batteries and/or having solar will give you power with minimum noise and gas use. Think of the battery bank as a big bucket that you use solar and genset to pour energy into and the inverters as the drain line that you pull energy out of.

You are right of course. One of my lines ran to my travel trailer. We moved out to it when the power went out. We had running water and a hot shower when most everyone else was in the dark. With rationing, we could stay off the grid about two months. After that, we are just like everybody else.

A generator without fuel is just another paper weight.

Cloud9, SIPTC and others - See Refrigeration topic in the old forum for ideas on maintaining refrigeration by only running a generator only a few hours a day.

Note to those who may be new. The fact that a generator running will attract attention has been discussed a bazillion times in the forum. I plan a cooperative strategy with my neighbors. Please don’t tell me how I need to defend my home. Those threads have been done to death also. I am not just buying a generator for sheltering in place, I also need it for weather-related power outages. When those happen I’m going to run it as much as I want, OK?

I also installed a thermometer ($10 at lowes) on my older propane grill, fired up one burner at low and let it heat up, slowly increasing the heat to 375 degrees. I put in a pan of “instant” banana bread (powder, water, oil, egg) and let it bake on the top rack. It took an hour but came out perfect. I need to find a substitute for the egg and get a couple more pans and I can bake a couple loaves at a time. I’m also have been experimenting with a breadmaker I borrowed and am going to try some recipes from scratch with no power, hand kneeding, and baking in the grill. //////////////////////////////////

Running a BBQ grill for an hour is a HUGE waste of fuel.

Better to get a propane stove and a camp oven.

For dried egg try: www.honeyvillegrain.com

Bird Guano:

Here is my favorite bread machine http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/getrecipe.php?id=R546? that can be made with dry ingredients and water.

Also, applesauce can be substitued for an egg, but I don’t know how much is needed.

I agree completely with what you are doing, trying out your plans now, I have been doing the same.

HillBilly Bill - Point taken; no offense meant. I also have a genset, with a deafening 10 hp flathead Briggs & Stratton. I would be very glad of any advice on how to reduce the noise. Our well pump needs 220v, so I am planning to use the generator as little as possible for water. It would be better, of course, to have enough solar to run the well pump, and the oil burner, and a few lights, but at $6 / watt just for panels, it’s pretty steep to set that up.

BG:

I was planning on getting a single burner propane stove for boiling water anyway and I saw a Coleman Foldable stove at Wally World the other day but wanted to read some reviews first. I’m going to bake another loaf sometime soon and I will weigh my tank pre & post to see how much propane I burn. Thanks for the egg link, just what I needed.

I agree with Hillbilly about neighbors. I live on a private, dead end road with 12 houses. We have been through 3 (or 4) hurricanes in the past two years together and out of power for a total of probably 35 days. Last hurricane one side of the street lost power for 3 days and the other side lost it for 14 days. We had extension cords and hoses running across the street, house to house. I’m going to probably gather some information from wiki and leave it anonymously in their mailboxes hoping that they will add to their hurricane preps and I won’t have to worry about my neighbors knocking on my door IF TSHTF.

Holy moley!! Just saw one of the first commercials for the ABC movie on May 9, “Bird Flu in America”! Looks pretty gruesome…should make Freddy Krueger quake in his boots!

will someone up in the northern hemisphere be able to upload that movie “Bird Flu in America” to somewhere? Is anyone able to make a bit torrent of it available to those of us downunder?

I have a 4500 watt generator set up in an adjacent shed - plan to keep the frozen food that way for a few weeks by intermitent use. Might throw a few batts of fiberglass insulation around the whole thing to muffle the noise. As for lighting - candles and propane.

SIPCT – at 22:52 Thanks for your tolerance, in retrospect my post seems cranky.

There was a post in the old Forum from a contributer who fabricated an exhaust system that allowed him to keep the generator indoors. It reduced the noise level considerably. I can’t remember the name of the thread but I will look for it. Eccles, do you recall that post?

johnnystop – at 02:23 If you have the room in your freezer, add some nearly full bottles or jugs of water. Not will they help keep your frozen food cold longer, but you will be storing some more water as well.

Can anyone advise what we would need to use solar energy to run our AC. Since we have a new unit - not looking to buy new solar unit. Just wondering what it would entail. Thinking not only of BF but power $$$ as well. TIA Erika

By AC, do you mean central Air Conditioning or Room/Window unit??

Either way you need to know startup and running amps for the condenser and air handler or single unit.

I’m sure it can be done, but it is probably cost prohibitive. Whatever the AC takes out, you have to put back in with solar and have enough batteries to hold the charge. Are you looking to run this all the time or just if TSHTF?

I’m looking into a grid-tied system (going to call my power company monday) that will power emergency circuits year round with the rest (A/C, HWH, Appliances) running off utilities. If I lose utilities than I will be ready to go with solar.

HillBilly Bill No problem. Thanks - I did read that post. As I recall, it was a permanent installation, and I am thinking more along the lines of connecting an automotive size muffler to the exhaust, and bolting it to the frame cradle of the 5500W Coleman portable genset. I am wondering about intake noise, though - I suspect that once the exhaust is muffled, I will find the intake is about 1/2 as loud as the exhaust was. I think the quietest generator based approach would be a low speed Deisel engine, driving a low voltage alternator [or several] to charge a bank of batteries. There are a number of these on the market, mostly from India and PR China - try a web search with “Lister Deisel” or Listeroid as a search term. They look like a tinkerer’s dream - if you like cast iron.

On solar, the best price I have seen lately - I haven’t really looked hard - is $470 for a 110W panel at siliconsolar.com. Let’s see, I’m paying $0.20 or thereabouts per KWH, so that panel would pay for itself in only 23500 hours of sunshine. About 43 years worth, considering the weather in Connecticut.

On refrigeration, I would guess - and that’s really all we can do - that the utilities will not crash with the first H2H in the country. Even in some of the more severe scenarios, the power would probably stay on longer than the perishables in the refrigerator last.

43 years…I’m in MA (similar sunlight or non-abundance of) and I want solar for just a little backup. Cycle the sump pump, start the oil furnace (while there’s anything in the tank). Sigh.

crfullmoon -

Well, let’s see. 110 Watts @ $0.20 KWH = $0.02 per hour worth of electricity. Figure you work 2000 hours a year, and the rest of the time it’s dark or raining - MA gets the same weather as CT, right? Well, that comes to about $40.00 worth of electricity. So, really, about 11 - 12 years, unless you count the cost of capital.

SIPCT – at 11:51

The Coleman 5500/6250 is what I have “penciled in” for this fall. I will be checking to see if it will handle all I want to run in a power outage. For SIP, I plan to run on absolute minimums, but for power outages I want to be inconvenienced as little as possible.

For those that are interested in food storage containers - Petsmart & Petco have 15, 30, 50 and 60 gallon type 2 food quality, plastic food storage containers called “vittle vaults.” They are guaranteed to keep out ants and other pests, and some are stackable with a wide mouth opening for scooping out a small amount. It seems to me this would be excellent not only for dog and cat food, but also rice, beans, etc.

I use these myself for dry pet food storage, and can tell you they are easy to open and close even if you have arthritis, no straining to open, as they spin shut. They could also be used for water storage.

HBB - I have found that my Honda EB-5000 works fairly well for power outages. it can even run a couple of zones of baseboard heat in the winter, if I ask it to.

The 5500/6250 ought to be able to keep things fairly functional at your place, including pumping water.

What I would suggest you do now is to map out where each of your circuit breakers feed to in the home. Remember that the supply of juice from such a machine is finite. When you have determined which circuits you NEED to keep up and running, add in the 220 volt devices you want accounted for. Remember that each 220 volt line will occupy TWO transfer breakers on a transfer panel. In my case, for instance, I have a ten line transfer panel, of which 3 220 lines and 4 120 lines are supported. I am thinking of dropping one of the baseboard feeds to free up 2 additional 120 lines to the house.

Also remember that you need to balance the load when setting up the transfer panel. Your genset probably is like most in that it generates half of the rated output as each side of a split 220 volt service. You can’t get all 5500 watts from one side of the generator, so you need to make sure that your transfer panel is set up so that in normal service, the draw on each half of the split phase is roughly equal.

I hope I haven’t been too obscure.

A solar panel might make sense, and a Kill-o-wat tester. Think I’ll start doing some research. I feel my electric bill is ridiculously high. Have been talking to people lately, and they are strangers who tell me their troubles, just money seems tighter and tighter and our property taxes, already some of the highest in the U.S. are getting impossible for people to meet. These are older women who have been thrown into going back to work, and are bitter, and angry about it. I don’t even mention B.F., as they are stressed already. I think if I am meeting these women just as I shop, or go here or there it must be a national problem for retired people. I know I have been cutting back myself. I think its going to be very sensible to do everything you can to be thrifty in the old fashioned way. Make do, use it, wear it out and so on.

Eccles – at 13:45 - Not too obscure at all, in fact very helpful. I am working on just what you stated, determining the circuits that I will want to keep going and measuring how much those appliances draw. For the computer and a small TV, I am planning on installing other outlets that I can power from either the generator or my, yet to be purchased, battery bank and inverter. From my measurements yesterday it is clear that I will be powering the laptop rather than the “regular” computer from the battery bank.

Thanks for the info about balancing the demand on both sides of the generator. It appeared that way from looking at the machine, but I wasn’t positive that was necessary. Your technical expertise is always appreciated!

I really can’t stress how important it is to get all of the details worked out before you need to go to backup plans.

HillBilly Bill - at 1631

It IS necessary to balance the load, but most breaker panels are laid out so that the top two are on one side of the line, the next two on the other side, and so on down the rows. So, just take the front panel off, and swap breakers with the ones immediately above or below to balance it out. Kill the main power first, though.

The Coleman, and other “inexpensive” generators, depend on engine speed to control frequency. At 3600 RPM exactly, you have 60 HZ - or 60 cycles per second for us old folks. If the engine is running fast or slow, the frequency will be off correspondingly. At that speed, they make a lot of noise, and use a lot of gas just to keep spinning. The owner’s manual for mine says to figure on 5 gallons for 8 hours at 1/2 load. OK for a few days, maybe, but a bit much for the long term.

The other problem is that the engine is running flat out - max RPM - all the time. They wear out fast. The book calls for oil changes at 50 or 100 hour intervals - I forget which. Most - certainly the flathead B&S - have no oil filter, so changing the oil is critical.

That said, it will power a lot of stuff. Starting a large spinning load - a motor - off the generator can be weird. The starting surge slows the generator down, and then the motor and the generator come up to speed together.

Strangely, a motor that is already spinning will act as a generator when another motor is thrown on the line. Really. One fan that is already spinning will help provide some of the starting surge current for another that is switched onto the line. Resistive loads - lighting - won’t do this. So, start all your motors first, and then the lights, which have no sustained starting surge.

There’s a description in the old Forum from 2 posters who quieted their generators-one put it in a hole in the ground and the other built walls with baffles and insulation around it; both had to consider letting the exhaust get out and not get into the house, as I remember.

I am currently clueless regarding alternative power sources. Can anyone recommend a good site or resource I can look up to get the “Dummy’s Guide to Alternative Power” version of all of this discussion?

I just need a way of jumping into it.

I wouldn’t mind having a small, lightweight power generator if I could afford it.

eg., I take it that generators require gas to produce their electricity? Which means I would need to store gas… oh boy…

maybe solar power is what I want… is there anything lightweight and small there I could use for anything? (as I’m going to be moving around and relocating often in the near future, would rather not also have to lug a huge generator).

Ricewiki - We had a series of extensive forum discussions on the subject. I’ll try to et a link to them up soon.

in the meantime, the bad news is that generators need lots of gas, solar systems are large, heavy and expensive, and wind generators are cheaper (relatively) but require like a really big stick to put them on top of.

Ricewiki - OK. So start with This Link and then as you define more of what your questions are, we can either direct you to other info, or just post a direct answer live.

But in general, we have discussed alternative power till we’re all blue in the face and no one has yet come up with the magic power source that is silent, needs no fuel, can run your whole house like the power company can, takes up no space and costs nothing.

Believe me. if it were out there, I’d have three of them right now.

Thanks Eccles, just what I needed to know!

I did see the lengthy discussion on this over the past week or so, but found it too detailed to jump into with my current lack of knowledge about it. (Okay, that’s just a kind of laziness…)

Ricewiki - Well, if you have basic questions that aren’t easily found elsewhere, just ask. I don’t usually bite when asked questions. Only when someone pokes through the bars at me with a pointed stick.

Eccles – at 00:59 --- silent, needs no fuel, can run your whole house like the power company can, takes up no space and costs nothing

Dilithium Crystals…should last for about 75 years if only powering a single home. They always lasted two seasons powering a starship…

Sorry…I had to do it

Hi, I’m new here and I’m sorry to butt in, but could someone please explain why we would have no power in a flu pandemic? Sorry if that’s a stupid question.

Worried,

WE live in a globalized world with a just-in-time delivery system for just about everything. A pandemic is expected to hit almost every country in the world within a few months, with a 25–50% infection rate. Estimates of work absenteeism vary between 30–60%, covering every single industry. If you put all that together for all industries for almost all countries either simultaneously or within a short time, there is an extremely high risk of systemic failures and prolonged interruptions to essential services.

anon, that makes sense. Wow! Thanks for your help.

Well, my first post on the new forum. I have to say that my prepping pantry is a total mess. Kids’ activities are taking priority for a few weeks … and since we don’t know what tomorrow might bring, I want them to have a good time here at the end of their school year just in case, you know?!

I did get lucky and find “table cream” at our local walmart, but the stuff sells out fast. I’ve been able to put aside 11 cans but haven’t found that they’ve restocked yet.

Water storage is proceeding. I am currently prepared for drinking water for a family of seven for 1 month. I could go up to 5 weeks just filling up household containers at the last minute, but would like to have a solid 3 month supply of water sooner rather than later.

I have nearly reached my 3 month mark for food. My goal is 6 months, but for that I’m going to need to do some additional canning.

I’m working on putting together a emergency food pantry cookbook. I have over 300 recipes so far with several more to key in. It runs the spectrum from condiments to full course meals to beverages … I’ve got it pretty well balanced thus far.

Worried – at 05:59 - if I can add my two cents to anon_22′s answer….please take the time to start this wiki from the very begining. Read everything! As I’ve stated once before, this site is similar to the Library of Congress - only better when it comes to bird flu/pandemic information. One thing that you’ll find on the fluwikie is that no one will demean you for your questions, since there is no such thing as a “stupid question.”

SIPCT – at 16:54

Again, I am not going to run the generator for long periods of time. While sheltering in place I plan an hour or two a day. I have alternative plans for light, heat and cooking, I do not have to have electricity for those. I will be keepping my ice bottles frozen in the freezer, (provides refrigeration in a cooler), providing limited entertainment time for the family, and charging up the battery bank for backup TV and computer use.

During power outages, which are infrequent, I will run it as long as needed.

Hi All. I bought this>>> http://store.sundancesolar.com/20wasoensywi1.html a few weeks ago and I love it! It won’t power your house but will give you 6 hrs of laptop power etc. and it’s small and light. They do sell a cheaper version that does the same thing but the solar panel is larger and not as sturdy. I’m past the three month prep mark for food and water and supplies but I’m only prepping for me, my dog, and my parrot. All of my friends and family think I’m totally nuts as I’ve practically used up my savings on this. Well, I’ve always been a bit of an nutty old liberal hippie (in my heart)so in that sense, they’re right, but I don’t plan to venture out an inch when/if it goes to stage 5. Also with the prices of everything sky-rocketting higher day by day (gas anyone? etc.), it’s a win-win situation for me and for all of us preppers! Thanks for the forum, guys!

My prep for today is to get a hold of the local locker and butcher shop to comparison price for cheap cuts of roasts for canning beef. Then go shopping to round out my canning supplies for the spring/summer/fall garden harvest coming up.. I want to get my beef canning out of the way while the weather is still cool. I will also inventory our OTC supplies and see what needs replenishing after this past 6 weeks of various bugs & colds.

cabingirl – at 11:39 that was me…duh!

Bird Dog looks good. It would pay for itself in no time at all.I use one freezer fridge, one small microwave rarely. One lamp with a 100 watt bulb, and my furnace fan blower, and it runs me 60$ a month. I hate to think what it will be when I use a fan this summer. Will empty out the amana fridge freezer and get a small apartment model. I have been told the electric company will send someone out to check your appliances if you ask.

Lily - You do realize that such a device would be useless with your power-gulping appliances? And if you replace that 100 watt bulb with a 20 watt compact fluorescent, you will generate less heat in your abode, and save just about enough power to run the fan without appreciably increasing your electric bill.

Thanks for the reality check Eccles. I intend to forget the Amana and empty it out as I rarely use it for day to day use, am just paying for nothing. Will get the 20 watt compact fuorescent. I have to rethink my entire outlay from gas to electricity. We all need reality checks, and I think many of us have gotten used to cheaper gas, cheaper electricity, cheaper heating, and now it is a wasteful way of life that we have all taken for granted, and will be paying for dearly. Before I buy a solar panel I would check it out. 350 is not cheap, but if it kept a laptop going during a time of crisis it would just factor into the cost of the laptop. I think I’ll turn my husbands former den into a war room. 2 hugh deskes, comfortable leather chairs and a computor desk. I have already put my newest peice of artwork there. A three foot long woodcut of the Hunt. Celtic designs all around. A huntress with long flowing hair is running fleetly with her hounds, hunting the stag standing on a hill. A stream on the bottom has a serpent slithering into the celtic designs. A real tour de force of woodcutting. To me its symbolic, we are getting back to older ways, we might slip into a darker age,but we are actively pursuing our goals. Self reliance among other things.Oh I bought more crumbled Matzo. A dollar for a large round tin for apfle kugel and stuffings. I do have dried eggs in my little storage. If it hits, I intend to get 20 pounds of Idaho Potatoes and a lot of fresh fruit that stores well. Vit C. I think we all have different stores, and different ideas. I like picking up ideas that never would have occured to me otherwise.If it hits I’ll stock the Amana too, but now its just a waste of electricity.

Lily, that sounds beautiful. Anyway, here is another way to go for a laptop, small tv, cell phone, etc. solar panel hook-up charger >>>http://tinyurl.com/rwkh. A friend said that one would have to add a deep cycle lead acid trolling battery from Target for ~$65. and an inverter for ~$20. It would be less expensive and offer more power and I would have bought it but I have a neuro-muscular disease which has restricted my strength, and those batteries are much too heavy! It may be a better deal but also more complicated to set up. I like my power unit and for $20. more I could have had it come with an air compressor. Good luck!

Lily – at 12:41 - Eccles is right on regarding the compact fluorescent lighting. I found the lights priced very reasonably at my power company’s web site. I purchased lights for outdoors (next to my front door) round circular lights (about 8″) for two floor lamps in our livingroom and other compacts for table lamps. Don’t be misled by people telling you that don’t provide enough light…not true! I did the same in my office replacing 8 ea. 100W incandescent light bulbs with compacts….no regrets - believe me!

Whoops..sorry about that. I’m having trouble with the tinyurl deal so here’s the regular address. I don’t think that it’s too long for the page. >>> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=90599

Got my 700W inverter 4/22. Ordered it on 2/13. Yet another reason to not wait til the last minute to prep. Tried it out using my car and a portable TV, it works fine.

I will need to buy a deep cycle battery, does anyone have any recommendations on deep cycle batteries?

Veggies are coming up.

I read somewhere on the FW that a golf cart battery is a better choice for a deep cell. Google - deep cell - you’ll get all kinds of information.

anonymous – at 14:24

That was me.

Thanks mmmelody47

10–4

Just visited my local senior meeting. Great food, go twice a year to check on their doings. Spoke to some 80 year olds, not concerned about bird flu, “It’s not so bad.” Asked the visiting nurse who does blood pressure checks and was giving a talk about falls if they had any state directives for the bird flu “It hasn’t gone h2h, no directives.” I don’t know how this ties in with public health, but our area runs a fair twice a year and raises hundreds of thousands, so our area has been well supported. Yesterday there was one of those charity runs (which I really have always thought odd) which raised a hundred thousand for the facility. One of these days when it fits in with my daily rounds I’m checking out our board of health. People just prefer to think its not a problem now, so won’t take off and be something horrific.I too prefer to act oblivious, but I do put a word in here and there, hoping someone will prick up their ears and actually prepare just a little. If your eighty it is easy to ignore, if your a young adult its somewhere in your future.

re: deep cycle batteries.

Golf cart batteries are usually 6 volt, which is not a problem but you will need two to achieve a 12V system. Also, I suspect those buggers weigh a lot also. A marine trolling battery would be a good choice and may be more available and easier to manuver.

Thanks for straightening me out HBB.

mmmelody47 – at 14:59 - I’m in the middle of a steep learning curve here myself. One thing I have established, is that none of this is cheap or easy. If it was, there wouldn’t be wires from the electric utility running to our houses.

I saw golf cart and Marine batteries at Sam’s club. The deep cycle Marine’s went for over $100 and were specd at 200 something or other, and they had lesser rated ones at 170 something or other at a cheaper price. I looked them up on Exide’s web and I think they make the Sam’s batteries. If my old memory is correct it is the Stowaway brand. Only about 75% sure on this one. The name on Exide was STOWAWAY and I think that was what was at Sam’s.

I thought this might be a consideration. I already have an inverter, but thought a separte deep cycle would be better than than vehicle battery. A fully charged one and 13 watt flourescent lights will last who knows, but maybe I could charge the battery back up from the vehicle either using the combination of vehicle to inverter to battery charger to marine battery, or just hook up the marine to the vehicle with jumper cables. Either way probably is not very efficient. Hopefully electric would be sporadic enough to charge between outages.

NJ Jeeper – at 15:04

A more economical setup would be an inexpensive generator to provide some power while you recharge your battery bank with a battery charger. It would use less gas than idling your car and be simpler to hook up.

Hillbilly Bill – at 15:04 - ditto here! I’m trying to do what is reasonable in providing power first for refrigeration, then lighting, small TV and laptop computer and associated routers, etc. Ironically, I’m home today waiting for my new generator to be delivered by UPS….that should take care of the above with assistance from an 800W inverter, 150W cigarette lighter inverter, 6.5W flexable solar panel.

HB, I thought of that, but did not want to attract unwanteds with the generator sound. I would have gas for my coleman camp stove, so gas would not be a problem for a short period of time to run the genny. I will have to rethink the small quiet generator to run the battery charger. I read there are some small quiet ones around that I could run in the daytime. The neighbors are really close though and would hear it. Of course they would also see the lights in the evening. Still pondering.

I am currently using six of the biggest 12v marine start\deepcycle batt. from sam’s club. I think I paid $65 each. I charge them with both wind and solar. They seem to hold up really well and are easy to combine as they have posts with wing nuts. I just bought batt. cables from auto zone.

What is the advantage of hooking them together rather than using one then the other? Thanks

mmmelody47 - sounds like you have your bases covered! It is expensive to keep food cold in a refrigerator for an extended period of time when the power grid is down. Of course, it may not take long to empty the refrigerator. I plan to run my freezer an hour at a time, 11 hours apart, to keep a LOT of pop bottles nearly full of water frozen. I have found that 3 frozen bottles will give me safe refrigeration in a cooler for 24 hours. This will be used to keep condiments and leftovers (if any) cold.

anonymous at 15:22- that was me. duh.

jon c: I was wondering if it was possible to buy something off the shelf to hook up multiple batteries. Thanks for the tip. I am also assuming that when I recharge with a battery charger that I just have to make one connection and the current will flow to all batteries, correct?

Yep. But hook the charger connections on batt. pos on one batt. and neg on batt at other end for a more uniformed charge.

jon c, yeah what HBB said at 16:11 plus my question on advantage of connecting them please

By connecting them you have a bigger power storage. As in God blots out the sun and the wind stops blowing at my place, I can still run my stuff for a week, plus you only need one charging source to charge all the batt. evenly

Also you don’t have to listen to the alarms on your power inverters going off all the time. hehe

How can I stay warm if this hits in the winter. I have down blankets. Live in apartment. But don’t plan on using a generator. I have both gas and electric heat. So I got some of that covered. Would it make sense to take a room and hang blankets on the walls to insulate the room in the winter like they did in old day? I am clueless on this one.It gets pretty dang cold in the winter in the Eastern New England states. Has to be some sort of portable heater that runs on fuel that is safe.

coleman makes a cataletic (sp) heater that runs on propane. it is safe indoors and you can buy it at wallmart. It is supposed to run on those little green cylinders but it can be coverted to run on the big white tanks for BBQs using a hose they sell at wallmart also.

thanks jon c

bird watcher, I think hanging stuff on the walls would probably help. Someone on another thread suggested sleeping in a tent and I bet that would help a lot (I apologize for not giving credit to the smart person who came up with the idea). That’s what I plan to do, though the weather here isn’t nearly as cold as New England. My advice: pets! A couple of cats (since you’re in an apartment) and you in the tent would warm it up in no time. Add a good sleeping bag and you’re in business.

White towels and sheets. I just got a few all white towels and sheets for my “flu room”. I figure if one of us gets it, we will want to wash the sheets with a bleach - often.

OH, yes, I also got one of those Ultra violet toothbrush holders as well.

OK, so I am sounding like “Monk”. But it couldn’t hurt.

Dennis C, every time you post I think of the beautiful area you live in and I think of the clear skies that had this avid amature astronomer shopping for land there a few years ago, and I think of my telescope in the closet, and the fruitless nights spent in my backyard cursing the city and it’s skyglow, and I resolve to come and visit you! Now I hear you’ve stocked your guest room with my favorite white sheets and towels! Sigh….

Oh well, of relevance to this thread, I have found the backyard BBQ grill of my dreams:

http://www.biggreenegg.com/

It grills, bakes and smokes, and uses very little charcoal. I’ve been eyeing one for a while, and yesterday I saw one at a home show. It was very cool. And very heavy.

Birdwatcher @ 17:12 - You might want to look into ways of rigging a Kotatsu table. Or a raised bed with hot air circulating underneath, like the rural Chinese still use. It would make whatever heat you have (a small propane heater for example) go farther.

NJ Jeeper – at 15:24

jon c has given you good advice. Be careful how you connect them to get the desired voltage ie in parallel or series.

See this link connecting in series/parallel

Would anyone be so kind as to walk us through setting up a multiple battery solar charging setup. I am picking up bits and pieces but i want to make sure i get it right for max effeciency and safety. It would be most helpful to let us know how many batteries are optimal, what size solar panel is necessary and anything else we need to know.

Thanks in advance.

there is something to be said about just getting back to the land when this all happens. I know this would not be possible for some but im planning on going to bed with the sunset and rising with the sun, cooking on a cookstove which i use daily ( i dont have an electric one) washing by hand and baking bread and baked beans. I might just be dreaming here but i have had some wine : )

Please do not connect batteries in parallel without a fuse in the positive lead to each battery. A high current Schottky diode in series with each positive lead to the load is a good idea, too. That way if one battery goes bad and develops an internal short circuit, it won’t pull all the others down with it.

Now, the really elegant way to approach this would be to buy a hybrid car. That would give you a very large quiet generator and a very big battery bank in one package. All you would need to do is tap into the battery, and convert the 300 volts or thereabouts down to 120.

Sahara – at 18:44

Yes, NM is a “dark sky” state. No upward turned lights, no mercury vapor lights,…. And yes I can easily see the Milky Way. My neighbor has an 18-inch scope and observatory- All I have is a 7.5-inch Questar. (Shows my age) And “Hale” (Hale-Bopp comet) lives a few miles over the ridge. We have lovely skies. I live about 1 mile from an old NASA observatory that is just turned private. (They are putting in a 1 meter there now in the 35 foot dome- some rich “un-named internet guy- for remote viewing back on the west coast) There are several “rural subdivisions” that are just for astronomy types. I am at 9000 feet in the forest - “somewhat” near the Sunspot Obser. We even have an observatory at the school and our town is only about 600 pop.- great place for kids (but no malls and no franchise businesses)

On cooking things like soups and such you might want to check out the “Small Foul Weather Kettle” They get the most out of just a little fire. You can boil a quart of water with a handful of twigs. Hard to discribe them (double walled tower with all the heat in the middle). Some camp stores sell them. I got mine here: http://tinyurl.com/sy72c

For rice, I boil the water then pour it in a thermos bottle with rice (or barley, noodles, etc).

PS one of the classes I teach on-line is Astronomy.- follow your dreams - the one who has the most fun-WINS

“Would anyone be so kind as to walk us through setting up a multiple battery solar charging setup”

Yes! I am also very interested in this…

DonJuansOtherDaughter – at 22:15

I’m right there with you DJOD. I would like to see us come out of this more self-sufficent and less hectic than we are now.

re: step by step battery bank and solar charger

This is not something easily covered in the Forum. Everybody has different needs, different levels of resources, and varied conditions for recharging. For instance, solar panels would be worthless at my house because of the hundreds of VERY tall trees on my property. For an introduction, [[http://bart.ccis.com/home/mnemeth/12volt/12volt.htm → start here.

oops..forgot the ending brackets…

Wondered if the local groceries would be packed yesterday due to the nbc movie but as with the Oprah show it was not so.I shopped around 8–9 pm and practically had the store to myself. Around March 1st I ordered a case of egg powder from Gordon food service.They didn’t have it in at thier store or their warehouse and they had to get it from thier distrubutor.It took over a month for them to get it in and when they did the price had gone from 25.00 for the case to 48.00.Luckily I had my order slip and was able to get the 25.00 price quoted,but I can’t help to wonder if this is the beginning of staple prices going up.

Finally realized that my name was not posting. anonymous – at 07:42 is actually Kathy in FL. <groan> Maybe next time I’ll check better before I post.

Don’t feel bad Kathy in FL, I have done it three different times on 3 seperate computers. You would think it would sink in before that.

HBB, “I would like to see us come out of this more self-sufficent and less hectic than we are now” We are all living in total dependancy. i sure would like to see us come out of this with some knowledge on how to live with just the things we need and live without the things we want. Our lives have become so “comfortable”so many of us are getting lazy and sick. Maybe through this whole thing we will realize that money is just an illusion and the things it can buy are worthless in reality. cause when it comes right down to it there are only those simple things we all need to survive.

Hello Folks,

I recently purchased a prepping item that I am very happy with for cooking without electricity. It is called a Volcano Stove and can be heated with coal, propane or wood. The unit’s design and shape is such that it holds heat well and can be used to heat and prepare meals as you would on a stove top. It is ideal for Dutch oven cooking. This weekend I used it as an outdoor grill with great success and I suspect it will be getting regular use as an outdoor stove, grill and heater without any emergency issues pertaining. Very well built, portable, perfect for camping, etc.

I ordered mine from www.volcanostoves.com. A nice, responsive man named Allen took care of my internet order.

Just a reminder to remember to get all your medical/dental needs checked. I’ve read alot about getting dental check-ups and health physicals done. So I decided to do just that. Two weeks ago I went in for my first mammogram. Didn’t think I needed one till I was 40 (I’m 38) but with the possibility of pandemic went for it just incase. It’s been a whirlwind but now I’m scheduled for a surgical biospy with BiRads of 4. Very nervous about what may happen but I’ll get thru. In a weird way, bird flu just may have saved my life.

Just a quick note. Solar is not the only way to charge batt. Some of you have stated that you have a lot of trees blocking the sun. Here in AZ I am lucky because we have an abundance of sun and wind. There is a great small 400w 30 amp self contained(it has it’s own controller built in) wind generator that is super easy to hook up. just connect positive and negative and ground. It is called the Air X by southwest windpower. You can find them online. Of course you should live in a windy place for it to pay off.

anonymous-11:19 That was me again. Duh

anonymous at 09:27 - Good luck with the biopsy, our thoughts are with you.

jquest at 13:44 - Thanks for the thoughts. I’m pretty nervous and I’m not too thrilled about the biopsy (next Wednesday). But as it is with being prepared for a potential pandemic, I’ll do what is necessary for my family. I have two fabulous kids (10 & 7) and a wonderful husband. So if the test results turn out bad (which we are prepared for) I’ll do whatever it takes. At least this isn’t happening during a pandemic. By the way, I’m kars1995 - I forgot about that anonymous thing. :-)

I’ll add your kars 1995 tag into my thoughts when I go to the healing service at our little side chapel. Every good thought is worth expressing. I don’t go but a few times a year, but I am always richer for the experience, though I am a pantheist, not religious at all.

Thanks Lily. :-)

Well, I have the dubious pleasure of remembering what it is like to go without air conditioning if we lose the utilities. My air conditioning has turned unreliable when the humidity is just starting to get uncomfortable here in Florida. We’ve have unusually low humidity for a while which made the heat more bearable … but which has also meant that we’ve hit a droubt period. We went 40+ days with no rain and after one storm are well on our way to that again. Everything is drying up around here.

Which also leads me to believe that I am not planning enough water. The hotter it is the more water we will need. A gallon per day for cooking/drinking per person isn’t going to be enough. My kids drank a gallon of water each in just one day … that certainly wouldn’t have left any for cooking. Where I am going to store it I don’t know, but I’ve got to put more water up somehow.

I think I’ll also need to look for those little battery powered personal fans that are attached to squirt bottles. You spritz and cool yourself at the same time. Might turn from a silly luxury item to a necessity in we lose power.

Kathy in FL – at 16:40 - I’m sure you must have seen the discussions on earlier threads about water storage - get food grade plastic garbage bags put into trash cans (32 gal.), buy a cheap kiddie pool (100 or mor gal.) water bladder (40 gal. on up to 500 gal or more). Go to the old wiki and you’ll find tons more terrific information.

mmmelody47 – at 16:47

Yeap, but in FL you have to be careful … mosquitos will lay eggs in most any body of water and they carry their own risk of disease.

Plus, algae … and other nasty critters … can grow quickly in the heat. Bleach helps, but I would rather not have to use any more of it than necessary.

I have 7 people to assure a water supply for. That is a base of 49 gallons per week. No matter how you cut it, store it, etc. … that is a lot of space needed.

I was talking to my father today about trying to keep my well pump going when I run out of gas for the genny. He said I should build a cistern on the roof so I only have to run the pump once a week to fill it and then let gravity fill the house. Atleast he got a good laugh out of it. :)

On a serious note, I am going to look into replacing my small pressure tank with a bigger one so I don’t have to run the pump as often (just a little longer each time).

At my dad’s old home place, running water consisted of a pitcher pump on the back porch. If memory serves me it was set up over a cast iron sink built into a cypress table. If power was to go out for a long period. Those of you on a well might consider unhooking the house pump and dropping a pitcher pump down the well.

Telephony

First, make sure you have at least one phone that will work without AC power. That means, not cordless - an old fashioned, corded, line powered phone.

Second, in any disaster situation, telephone system capacity will be a scarce resource, and cell system capacity even more so. Please try to keep calls to a minimum, and keep them short. Teenagers love cell phones, and if stuck at home will spend all day talking to their friends. This can tie up the system so that emergency calls cannot get through. Take the cell phones away from the kids. Remove the batteries so that the batteries can retain their charge, and so the phone does not keep pinging the network, saying “Here I am!”

Cloud9 (and others) - The subject of manually operated well pumps has been discussed at length previously in the Wikie. basically, the two things you need to know are that the old fashioned pitcher pump can only draw water up a maximum of 20 feet or so (there is a problem with physics for any deeper water). There are also deep well hand pumps, but you must drop their own standing pipe to permit them to operate. They could not operate with the electrical pump, its piping and wiring in place in the hole.

there are also mechanical bailers (essentially a can on a string) which will permit you to laboriously pull up a little water each time.

The time to research this all is now, before you are stuck and thirsty and the stores are all closed.

Not sure exactly why, but our local Krogers is having a HUGE sale on chocolate and candy bars. BIG Hershey bars for a dollar and ten packs of fun size candy bars also for a dollar. I bought $20 worth to hide in the freezer.

Question: If I seal it in plastic bags will I still be able to hear it calling to me at night?

Right, I am thinking about south Florida. Dig down ten feet anywhere and you are in water. Probably not practical for anywhere else.

You know, we have the same phenomenon here, too, Hillbilly Bill. Grocery stores have Cadbury bars on sale, but I managed to buy only one. I’ve been able to avoid the call of it for about 24 hours, but it’s been rough!

STH – at 15:19 Face it, that Cadbury bar is doomed. Put it out of the misery of waiting on death row.

Now you stop that, HB! My mother was right—I’ve been hanging out with friends that are nothing but trouble!

This is part of a whole complex STH scheme: Exercise like crazy and eat healthy which will free up some prep space by donating “fat” clothes and improve health for better bug resistance.

That chocolate is for emergencies only. Usually, I define “emergency” as “sweets being in the vicinity,” but I’m trying to change that definition to “extreme stress / personal crisis.”

My current prep is “stress management.” I have so much going on in “real life” that I can’t get a thing done otherwise. This is crunch time for our home education program with lots of presentations, curriculum completion, and testing. Then summer camps start.

I’m also trying to reign in my inclination to tuck my chicks under my wings and keep them there for the duration. My son is working on getting Eagle in Boy Scouts and will be gone for 3 weeks this summer, 2 of those weeks canoeing in the wilds of Minnesota lakes region. Ugh. Just not thrilled with the mental picture.

I’m also dealing with the stress of not having the time to do what other things I need to do for prepping … cleaning and organizing my prep areas, etc.

There is only so much you can do in a 24 hour period and now I’m learning/relearning those old stress management techniques. Will probably come in handy during the hypothetical pandemic when we are cooped up at home with five kids while I watch my husband walk out the door most days and wonder if he will be coming home.

Just hate those mental pictures. Any body up for some breathing exercises?

In through the nose, out through the mouth. better…..

I went to Wally World last night on a regular shopping trip. While DW was navigating the food aisles, I snuck off to automotive. After briefly coveting some deep-cycle batteries, I picked up some STABIL, and two more bottles of HEET (never can have too much). Then I turned to the fuel cans. OK, here are the blue ones for kerosene, I need one of those for backup fuel for the hurricane lamps but I’ll get it another time. Let’s see…yellow cans for diesel….maybe around the other side…Wait a minute, surely not, this big expanse of empty shelving must be because they are reorganizing the area. It can’t be! NOOOO!!! THEY ARE COMPLETELY OUT!!!!! What happened? Did an alarm go out since the last time I checked fluwiki? Where did H2H break out? I’d better grab what containers I can while there are some left. It doesn’t matter what color they are, THIS IS AN EMERGENCY!!! DAMN IT!!!! I knew I should have gotten them sooner!!!

OK….deep breaths….it can’t be panic shopping because of the pandemic, I saw plenty of bottled water and it would be one of the first things to go. Maybe it is just people getting ready for lawn mowing and such. Better now, blood pressure coming back down. It will be OK, I’ll call them tomorrow and see when they plan to have them back in stock. Maybe if I call them about a dozen times and keep changing my voice they will get them in sooner…..

OK Bill - I guess what you’ve learned is that this prepping stuff is a real Gas.

After realizing no one thinks he’s funny, Eccles retires to his room with his recently delvered BroncoBill Self Flaggelation kit

I went to the grocery store on Sunday and was amazed to find them out of vienna sausage (HUH?), canned diced tomatoes and ranch style beans. They NEVER run out of ranch style beans in Texas! Makes ya go hmmmmmmmm!

Could be hurricane preppers at work? Probably. Could be flu preppers? Maybe.

I also noticed large stockpiles of water - no one seems to have touched that. Noticed the sale of chocolates here, too.

I also notice that I check out other folks carts, especially at Sam’s. I have noticed an increase in the number of folks stocking up on canned fruits and vegetables. Probably hurricane preppers.

SPAM will be as gold. (insert evil laugh here)

I ordered a solar cooker from eBay yesterday. I think it could be the ultimate prep item if it actually works. Okay, so I couldn’t use it in the middle of winter, but then I’d be indoors anyway.

Hillbilly Bill I just went to Home Depot-NO gas cans any size. Local hardware had one 6 gal left. The old style. Will keep looking, glad there is no hurricane heading straight for NJ

I’ve seen a lot of sereptitious prepping as well. I watched the strangest behavior I’ve ever seen the other day.

I was standing at the end of an aisle of a buy grocery store waiting for a couple of carts to move so I could go in. A lady added five cans of something to her cart then did one of those looking around to see if anyone is looking at her but trying not to be noticed while she is doing it kind of head dances. You know the head goes around with the eyes definitely looking and then they pull a fake like they were just stretching their neck. <grin>

Then she grabs a few more cans and quickly moves off down the aisle. But of course her little dance was noticed by a couple of other shoppers that get that blank “looking inward and thinking” look on their face and then they glance at the shelves and down at the cart and then they too grab a few extra cans off the shelves without trying to be noticed.

But of course they were noticed and the behavior increased exponentially. And before you can say jackfrost, the canned meat and vegetable aisle is really needing to be restocked.

It was like watching one of those weird modern dances mixed into a scifi promo for a disaster movie. Bizarre.

Had the same reaction last weekend. We don’t have a superwalmart yet so did it in another town, took advantage of it while we were there. Our cart was full to the top. Got a lot of strange looks, didn’t care. The checkout lady looked at me funny and I just told her we were from out of town and lived way out in the country and do this every couple of months. She believed me and we were on our way. This isn’t that uncommon in our neck of the woods. Haven’t been to town lately so very curious if anybody will be watching the news and decide to stock up.

It is such a private thing, but… I am a 100 sheet a day, 2-ply user. I’ve counted every sheet for several days and I am amazingly consistant. I think I am a normal midlife female, but this post is making me re-think that assumption. If this helps anyone caculate the thousands of sheets needed for their preps, then I hope this confession was worth it.

One roll per person per week. A fair middle ground, because many people would not normally use that much, but with illness it might double. Kelly

“One roll per person per week. A fair middle ground, because many people would not normally use that much, but with illness it might double.”

Yeah, that’s true. And keep in mind that you’re not going to be at work, so you’ll use more TP at home than normal.

And if you have young children that amount may double yet again. <sigh> And pardon the crudity, especially if you are the one doing the wiping. <What a mother won’t do.>

We are going for the 1 roll a day (two of us) just to be safe. buying the big rubbermaid containers to keep them safe from rodents. You can never have too much TP.

I wonder what you could get for a roll if things got really bad….

TP is one item I ALWAYS have plenty of, preps or no preps. But, I am thankful that three out of the five members of our family are male! More for me and my duaghter lol! Plus, the boys think it’s hysterical to go pee in the woods in back in case the well isn’t working.

I did go ahead and order a freezer this week. There was a great deal at Best Buy on a discontinued model and I figured if people do start to take prepping more seriously with the White House report, ABC movie, etc. I’d better get one now. I can’t wait to go to Costco and stock it with meat, etc. That will make me feel more at ease.

Eccles and Leslie

LOL. :)

lauraB: Don’t forget to stuff some 2 liter soda bottles of water (about 85–90% full) in the freezer also. If your power goes off it will help keep things cold longer, and it never hurts to have some extra water.

Good idea (as always) Thanks Bill!

Just went to my nearest Aldi, normally I am the only BIG time shopper there. Usually there’s about 10 people I will let go first at check out because I am the only one with overload and they have only a gallon of milk and some bananas. Today, lots of cars in the parking lot, lots of carts filled with TP, bleach, fruit in cans etc. Did America just discover Aldi?? (I’m from Europe and I am brought up by Aldi)

HBB - I’ve been playing with a small refrig. we have for reserve and out-of-the way things. It’s a nice size, about 2–3 times the size of a dorm room fridge.

Anyhow, I stuffed the freezer with the freeze packs that they use to keep sensitive medicine good when shipping. The fridge itself is filled with many boxes of UHT milk, which we have parked there cause it keeps longer and tastes better that way. Thus, much thermal mass.

Anyhow, based on your trials, I inserted a dial thermometer’s probe between the milk boxes so it could be read when the door was opened. I then pulled power to the fridge. The fridge temp started at 38 deg. After 24 hours it was still 38 deg. After 48 hours it was 42 deg. after 60 hours it was 44 deg.

At that point I re-applied power so that things could cool down and freeze up again. Next test is going to be pull power and just run it for about an hour per day and see if that makes any difference in the storage time.

Since the fridge only draws about 300 watts when running (surge more, of course), if I can figure out just how little power I can get along with, I may be able to at least use that one during austere power conditions. Of course, as in your case, there won’t be any problems getting ice to cool things for half the year. Then the problem will be keeping warm.

Boonct – at 14:32 I LOVE ALDI’s !!! I always have a HUGE cart full, they have the best prices I have ever seen.

Eccles – at 14:36 I think that scenario will work in a lot of situations. I was actually amazed at how little I had to run my freezer to keep the thermal mass frozen and even more pleased to see how well the bottles kept the cooler cold. Of course you can’t be opening and closing it all the time like the grandkids do with the refrigerator in my house. I’m thinking of making some type of basket so that everything can be taken out at once and then put back after everything that is needed is used. It would also be nice if it was designed to hold jars of jelly, etc. upright. So much to do……

Definitely true about the seasons, a shovel full of snow in the cooler works wonders!

Thanks for that info Eccles - that is incouraging that it stayed cold that long. On another post someone had other good ideas for keeping a freezer cold - duct tape around the seals (which obivously means only going into it every once in awhile) and thermal blankets around it. I know that when we loose power around here I try to mentally plan out what I need from the fridge so that I can grab it all at once and not have to keep opening and closing it. Keeping milk in there serves two purposes - so smart you are!

LauraB - The milk was just there, so I can’t take credit for it, but I was aware of what a nice thermal mass it made, so I wanted to see just how long things would keep with a little bit of help.

The little one actually stays colder longer than the main one in the kitchen. And uses lots less power. In the event of TSHTF, we would only use the little one, if anything. It is beginning to look to me as though it actually can keep a much larger volume of space, and therefore goods cold on lots less power than the 12V car fridges that we have. It was actually surprising to me that it could coast for just about 3 days before something needed to be done.

And as Hillbilly Bill points out, keeping as much ice in the freezer as you can will maintain the cold all that much longer. It takes alot of heat to melt ice, and as long as the door stays shut, it can really help.

You know, only a very few overall will prep & I hope I DO see a lot of folks buying right now & being quiet about it…..they’ll buy what they think they’ll need and go home & shove it under the bed & think they’re done. They would never believe how much TP they REALLY need & I’ll be buying long after they stop!!

Hi again 2Lt bottles work fine but if you can find the big 3 Lt they wil stay frozen twice as long I use them when fishing on the gulf in the hot sun all the time.they take up a little more romm but very wort it.Academy sports has a coleman 2 burner gas grill on sale for 43 bucks.Thats the one you put gasolene in and pump it up.Mine runs like 9 hours on a quart of gas……talk to you guys later

If its winter, a window sill or a tin box at the back door will keep things frozen. Like the milk delivery containers years back, when you got milk delivered, as well as groceries, veggies, fruit, fish by small merchants with a truckload of farm items. Today I orderedGardening goggle, Earths Answer Microbial Deoderizer, and Pantry moth traps for storage area in case the little buggers hatch. Saw a new cat litter made of paper pellits by purina for sanitation in case you need to use primitive earth buckets. Have cedar shavings from years back.Earths anser is a selected bacteria produce enzymes that digest animal,plant and human waste. Eliminates odors. www. Gardens Alive.com. Checked out Barry, the Great Influenza, which I am familiar with, but never read completely. No waiting.Have little bottles of ketchup, mayonaise, honey, jams and mustard, plus A1 sauce from hotel stays. My prepping is on as small a scale as these little jars. For me, its a lot. By government standards released today I’m over prepared.

Lily, even one small bottle of Tabisco (or whatever) can mean the difference between uuugh & aaaah! Keep ‘overpreparing’!!

I’m-workin’-on-it-17:57 Small bottle? We bought a buch of the monster bottles of Tabassco sause. If it tastes bad, dround it in Tabassco. Mouth is on fire. hehe. Also don’t forget the liter size can of Kikkomann soy sause.

I had a chance to go by Costco today while my wife wasn’t around, so I picked up another month’s worth of TP. By sneaking it in while she wasn’t looking, I was able to avoid hearing something like “What’s that for, we already have some.”

I will look around at home, but I remember printing an article of the web before Y2K about a woman who had (no, I am not making this up), as I recall, a trailer in her yard filled with TP — she anticipated it would be the new currency.

I’m headed to wallyworld now. need water jugs from the camping aisle. What kind of pallet should I keep these on? Plastic? Wood? Does it matter as long as they aren’t on the concrete floor? Bill, didn’t you get some spiffy shelves from Lowe’s and would they hold water?

I’ve seen these small bottles in stores at 50 cents each. So I have been collecting them, and have a nice little cache, even small Tabasco sauce. I call it 101 nights in a hotel room. Invisable hands, making the bed with fresh sheets every day, monster towels. immaculate rooms, sparkling windows. I like the change from my own slapdash habits, who bothers making a bed up anymore the way our mothers did with hob nailed antique covers. Those were ladies with time to take infinate pains. Actually the item I have been considering more than anything else is water, spring, mineral, juices of varying kinds, teas, because that is the most essential thing. I enjoy good food, most of us do. There are some really talented cooks on the Wikie. As long as those who are exerting themselves, and the growing children have what they need. Some of us won’t really require all that much.Thinking of the small business that flourished when I was growing up. Perhaps the ice man will be back in vogue, as well as the men who parked their trucks on a street, and the ladies came by to check out the fresh produce. (The days of one family car.) Where there is a need, there is always somewone who finds a way to earn their bread. Here there used to be a man who sold fish out of his small pickup, and the men who still sell corn in season. If we won’t have gas, someone will get creative.Perhaps sell products dressing in a decontamination suit and face shield. Coins accepted dropped into a bowl of disinfectant. We will only know once the SHTF. Science fiction and some of GS’s more imaginative scenarios might take place. Even Bush is on the ship, perhaps not commanding, but paying attention to John Barry and his book. WE can’t take a cruise on a luxurious Noahs ark, but we all will do the best we can.

I was thinking of pieces of cardboard for under plastic jugs of kerosene. Guess I should check them now and then to be sure they’re not saturated with some chemical dampness. (Maybe some plastic grocery bags between the cardboard and the plastic containers would be better.)

new birdie prepper – at 18:23 Yes, the shelf unit I got at Lowes is spiffy and it is strong enough to hold water. Supposedly every shelf will hold 1,000 pounds, but I wouldn’t push it that far. Once you get it together right, it is really nice!

“WE can’t take a cruise on a luxurious Noahs ark, but we all will do the best we can.”

Hey, now there’s an idea to make money off this thing. Buy a large cruise ship, sell rooms to preppers and their families as long as they bring their own supplies, e-mail or call them when TSHTF, and set off for a 6–12 month cruise somewhere far away from the Avian flu.

If the Avian flu never hits, just go on a long vacation anyway.

Been in a loopy daze last sever days (wisdom teeth removal - 2 down , 2 to go) so am behind on my education.

BB-I know you MUST be the right source for these questions…..(a) don’t laugh! Why should a pallet be used under water containers on concrete -really don’t laugh! (b) Along with my buy one get one 1/2 off aged bourbon (medicinal purposes of course), and absolute lack of knowledge of “red wine bird flu killer”, any recommendations? Is there a middle ground/quality that might be used for both cooking and gulping (sorry sipping)?

Non-related subject:

Kathy in FL @ 18:10 —If your son is going to canoe the Minn.Boundary Waters (Minn./Canada border) , He will LOVE it. Both my boys have gone twice and leaders even flew there again without the boys. They will see (and experience) amazing things……Drop dead sunsets/sunrises, moose, beaver, great fishing ,pictographs and unfortunately, mosquitoes the size of moths! They report the waters are like glass very early monring.Hint: make sure the troop has plenty of head nets and bug off! Lots of cameras (waterproof-disposable). My youngest just Eagled, and it’s so exciting. I’ve waited 8 long years (since Cub) to put that bumper sticker on my jeep! Congratulations to your son for a job well done.

How about carbonated spring water sealed in glass bottles?

Is that safe to keep for a couple of years? The bottle is glass and vaccuum sealed.

Lily, I have to say that I love your posts — you’ve had such a rich life and I appreciate you sharing glimpses of it through your writing. You have a fine way of keeping a healthy perspective on all this stuff — pun intended.

Lily, I concur with I’m-workin’-on-it at 07:18. Your posts read like poetry (you’re very visual in your writing). If you ever do write and publish any poetry, let us know.

I like being anonymous. I just like living. Living in a incredably beautiful area,(my husband chose it) Gentlemen Farmers, raising Black Angus, Highland Cattle, horses, sheep, to get the farmers property taxes. Even the King of Morocco who said he wouldn’t take advantage of this, ended up hireing an estate farmer to run his cattle operation for lower taxes. Now Richard Branson is making a luxury spa out of the run down mansion. It really needed loving care. The King had this, plus country properties in England. Our county bought it for park use. The county people have the second highest incomes in the country so things around here are very well thought out. I’m a pauper enjoying it all, paying some of the highest property taxes as a result. Its worth it in the libraries and all the intellectual stimulation. Going down in a few minutes to hear a lecture by Dr. Kaylan Ray, a charming and incredably erudite man. He is married to a Indian filmaker. He once screened one of her films, excellent. Last week he discussed Paradise Lost, Dr Faustus. Today he will take us on a journey into the past. A charming man, loads of charisma, and his eyes sparkle as he takes us along on his enthusiasms. He should really be filmed on the history channel. So much better.Log on later. He is talking about the pacts that we live by.

I found some interesting containers at Walmart last month that I’ve just gotten around to finding out how nice they actually are. <grin>

They are sold in sets of 2, kind of square-ish, have opaque bottoms and tight-fitting blue lids. It takes 3 to hold 20 lbs. of rice. But best of all, they are stackable. I’m hoping to find some more today. They aren’t that expensive either.

My problem is space … with a family of 7, even breaking it down to bare minimum basic component ingredients, that still a lot of stuff.

I’ve hit the three month mark for food. I’m still working on that for water and paper goods (paper towels, diaper wipse, diapers, napkins, fem. products, etc.). Now I’m off for the 6 month mark in food.

After I pay the exhorbitant property taxes (which keep us all broke) today, will be planting seeds. Showers on Sat, good for planting. They now sell everbearing strawberries and tomatoes in hanging baskets in supermarkets. I think I’ll be visiting garden centers for new ideas. If you keep the watering down, ripening tomatoes will have more intense rich flavor. Didn’t know that overwatering tomatoes makes them blah.

The wife noticed yesterday while shopping 20 lb. sacks of rice on sale for like $6.35. So she picked up 2 (now in excess of plan). Will put it up in packages that can be given away to others if the need ever arises in the neighborhood.

Kathy, I recently found 4 gallon square buckets that stack too. Theyre not too expensive and I have put bulk stuff in them like rice (each holds 25 pounds), flour (25 lbs), oatmeal (fluffy so only about 15 lbs), sugar (25 lbs) to decant as needed into smaller easy to use containers. I have also put things like Kraft mac and cheese and rice a roni boxes in them to prevent rodents. Dont forget that you can ask at delis, bakeries, restaurants and the like for 5 gallon food service buckets and they will usually save them for you for free. I just heard that and have a couple of places saving them for me. Its all about the stacking for me, I have several stacks 5 high in my basement. I bought 100 food grade liner bags for under 10 bucks at a local food storage store. I hope, for the love of puppies, that noone knocks those stacks over. The food storage buckets are a little hard to open but I also picked up an opener to save my knuckles.

Oh, what I wouldn’t give for a basement. <sigh> But I live in Florida and any basement I tried to dig would quickly turned into a swimming pool of mud.

Oh well, at least I have closet space. Every bedroom in the house has a walk in closet. Of course with five kids four of whom share 2 of the bedroom, there better be walk in closets for all their clothes, toys, etc. or this house would rupture at the seams.

I am using kitty litter buckets to store some of my dry goods. Before anybody goes ballistic, I left the food items in their original packages. I also washed the buckets thoroughly and let them sit open until there was no discernable trace of litter scent. They hold 25lbs of rice and stack very nicely. They also have a very convenient carrying handle.

1) Bought a thermometer with a long cord and receiver that mounts to metal (magnetic). I’m using it to watch the temp in my fridge/freezer running at different settings. This weekend I’m going to test how much I have to run it per 24 hours to keep it at an acceptable temp (it has a min/max alarm too). It was around $30 on ebay. I’m also going to stick some frozen soda bottles in my different coolers and see how long it takes the temp to come up to an unacceptable level. Also will be nice to have when I am running emergency power to tell me when it gets too warm.

2) Got my 1 can of Kraft cheese to try out before I order a whole case (shipping is killer on 1 can but didn’t want to get a case without trying it out).

3) Organized my supplies so that some are hidden in closets instead of everything being together in garage.

4) Walmart called and the Remington 870 I ordered is in, just have to do the paperwork tonight. Then it’s off to practice, practice, practice.

5) My well pump is atleast 15 years old, so I am going to have it replaced and keep the current one as a backup. I would be a bit unhappy to have enough fuel for the genny but have a broken pump during an emergency.

6) Priced out a 500 gallon propane tank @ $3900 installed without the propane. I figure I could go 90 days at 2.5 hours a day or more hours and less days. For the same money solar/wind isn’t going to give me enough juice, and I don’t think I want to stay in S. Florida long enough for it to pay off.

nopower: While you are at Walmart will you pick me up a couple of gas cans…..

Nopower, let us know how the cheese is!

nopower-15:44 Can of Kraft cheese. Where? how much?

nopower - at 15:53

IMHO the Remington 870 “special purpose” aka riot model is an excellent choice. You should be very pleased with it. I think the tactical load (not magnum) 00 buck is also an excellent load for the weapon.

I don’t remember if Smart ‘n Final is on the other coast, but they are out here on the Left Coast (Kahlifohrneea).

I was wandering around in there the other day, and lo and behold, what to my wondering eyes did appear? Stacks and stacks of Sterno in 8-packs, 25# bags of rice and beans, N95 masks, 1/2-pint, 1-pint, and 1-quart canning jars with lids, hand sanatizer in the pump bottles (72% alcohol content), boxes of hospital-grade latex gloves, etc. I was in preppers heaven. And the really kewl thing about it was that everything was dirt-cheap. The quart-size canning jars were listed at $3.50 for 8 jars with lids, the boxes of gloves were $1.75…

I sure got some funny looks when I came back in a THIRD time to fill up another cart!! In 30 minutes!

By the way…a thought just occured to me (watch it…that doesn’t happen too often!)

If you store gasoline, and you plan to use a pump to get it out of whatever storage facility you’re using, make absolutely certain that the pump itself is made of either brass/bronze, or aluminum.

Steel and iron can transmit little sparks called static electricity between themselves and the tank. And that could make for a very uncomfortable situation…

HBB - I’ll see what the price is at Wally but Lowes had a ton of them on a pallet and they were quite a bit cheaper than the two I had just bought (and already filled) at Advanced Auto Parts. I think they were like $4 - $5 for red plastic 5 gallon self venting. I suppose you want me to fill them up for you too before I ship them :)

Jon C - www.internet-grocer.net The cans are only $2.99 each and less than that on a case of 36. However shipping for 1 can was $8.12 with a $1 “handling fee”. I think shipping for the case is $20 plus a $2.75 “handling fee”. I’m going to cool it down and try it tonight or tommorow.

Deep Imact - I think I will enjoy it, I picked up a stock from Knoxx on ebay that should make it more fun to shoot alot of rounds at a time with. Between it and my 9mm and an assortment of non-lethal options, I feel fairly well prepared.

One more,

If anyone orders from Office Depot, this month they have a free mini-fridge (real mini) with $75 purchase. I don’t have any details or know if it is 110 or 12v. I happened to be ordering alot of office supplies anyway so I split it into two orders and used the two coupons I found online. Might be nice for drinks or condiments or something.

Add $75 of stuff to cart, apply coupon: 20488130, click on “more information” it will tell you to add the fridge to cart for $59.99 and then give you a $59.99 discount. I think this coupon is good till June 6. Here’s another coupon: 93637705 that works the same way. I used both on two seperate large orders placed minutes apart, we’ll see if I get two tommorow or if they limit me to one. I’ll post details when I get it.

No power — please let us know your thoughts on the canned Kraft cheese. I’ve got kids who love cheese. If it tastes good, I’ll order a case. By the by, what part of FL do you live in?

The canned Kraft cheese is good enough to eat on a regular basis let alone using it for emergency purposes. In fact, it would be helpful to find a very out-of-the-way place to put it, or you might go through it quickly. The canned butter is the same way. Another idea: Sam’s sells 5 lb honey at a good price. Honey keeps indefinitely at room temp. It might crystalize, but you can always warm it up slowly to get it to reconstitute. Might be a good item to have on hand for trading purposes as well.

I got a butter saver for 2$ at T.J. Max. Its a cup type of thing inverted into a crock. It will keep butter fresh for a month unrefrigerated. Must be an idea from the far past.

East side between West Palm Beach and Ft. Lauderdale.

Lily – at 19:31 --- My bro-in-law has one of those, and my wife just bought one two days ago. It’s the greatest thing going…no more rock hard butter on my toast in the A.M.!!

Thanks De jure – at 19:18, I think I’ll put an order in.

nopower — glad to have a fellow prepper near. We’re west of Ft. Lauderdale.

Canned 7 more quarts potatoes, 3 pints turkey chunks. Trying out some new things to can, 1 pint hormel little sizzlers and 3 pints polish sausage.

Purchased dehydrated hashbrowns at store this morning, tried tonight. Tasted good, serves 5, only add water and 3 TB butter, cost $.88. Will be putting in food storage.

Puchased new butane grill at Lowes, It has 3 burners, the grill attaches on top of two of the burners. Going to try it out tommorow night, if we like it going to order the griddle that can be attached over 2 of the burners.

Finally found the minature mayo, mustard and jelly yesterday.

arklatex, where did you find the dehydrated hash browns? Any brand name?

Erika, Where did you find mini mayo? Thanks.

Kim- dehydrated hashbrowns are available at most grocery stores here in the US- near the other dehydrated potato things (ie instant mashed potatoes).

Found the mini’s at a restaurant supply store in my area - Tampabay Try GFS Marketplace for a store near you. Also today, online, I purchased a solar battery charger that charges AA, AAA, C’s and D’s from: the preparedeness center. $24.90 + 10% discount, 7.95 shipping

I find instant green tea at Wal Mart. Does anyone here know if the instant has the same “active ingredient” as the tea bags (some say green tea has some anti viral properties))?

Got my mini fridge, it’s pretty small but would keep a small thing of leftovers or condiments etc. It has 110 and 12v input and switch on back and does warms or cools. Not bad for FREE! I’ll try it out this weekend with my thermometer to see how well it works.

All - Check out your local resturant supply stores. I picked up quite a bit of our storage- especially the instant and diced potatoes, and many just-add-water items for about the same prices and sometimes less, than I’ve seen on-line at the well known dehydrated food suppliers- and paid no shipping.

From a tea snob: Buy loose tea. When tea pickers pick tea leaves, the good stuff goes into the “loose” (non tea bag) containers. The leftovers (tea sawdust) goes into tea bags. That might not be true for some high end products, but sometime open up a typical tea bag and compare it to what’s in a can or box of loose tea. You can see sawdust (tea bag) versus shriveled leaves (bulk or loose). The loose tea you have to strain, but it is a much, much nicer product and IMHO wil have more tea “goodies” (antioxidents/caffiene for black tea) than the sawdust.

Make sure the water is BOILING before you tip the tea in. Also makes a big difference. I have read that both green tea and black tea have anti viral properties.

I purchased the dehydrated hash browns at Super One, a sister store to Brookshires, I think. I checked this morning at Wally World and they only had Betty Crocker brand, $1.23 per box.

Anybody else smoke ciggs. What are you going to do? I think We are going to have to quit if BF goes H2H. I bought some pipe tobacco in tins and a pipe that may take the edge off, but I think in the end we will have to quit.

jon c, there was a thread about cigs a while back. Unfortunately, it was hijacked by rabid anti smokers (as I recall).

I remember what it was like for me to quit, even though that was over 30 years ago. I know that I wouldn’t want to be going through withdrawal during a crisis. I also doubt that TPTB will condider tobacco a priority item when distributing food and such.

If you can manage to inhale enough of the pipe tobacco to get a nicotine fix, that may be a reasonable way to go.

And pipe tobacco is sweet smelling, quite nice for those of us who hate cigarette smoke. I start coughing as soon as the smoke drifts into my face. After a long session at a craps table with smokers, I generally shower and change my clothes because the odor gets caught in the fabric. I don’t like staying in Smokers room. The drapes and all carpeting seems to retain the odor, plus there are usually burn holes evidence here and there. I guess the guys are drinking and smoking and exhausted from the adreneline rush at the tables and just drop their ashes on the carpeting. I have also noticed the odor in the clothing of women I know who are demon smokers, plus they are wrinkled well before their time. I always use the wrinkling when some mother asks me to tell their daughters not to smoke. I must look like a mother. Years ago a rock group asked me to play the cautionary mother in a rock video. Didn’t. Prepwise. Nearly bought a sampler at our Fairgrouds rummage sale. From ghosties and ghoulies and long legged beasties may the good lord deliver us. To expensive for what it was, but there were comic birds worked throughout the sampler. Long legged, long beaked, like a childrens book illustration. Did buy tins for storage, and basket for gift preps. Like to spend an hour twice a year at the fairground sale, but every year it gets more crowded. You can find a chanel jacket, a Dana Buchman suit, but you have to pay through the nose for those. I did buy some handmade salt oatmeal bowls from Maine, with rabbits leaping and crouching at the bottom. I don’t just eat from my dishes, I want them to entertain me too.

AVanarts- thanks, I will see if I can find that thread.

Just got my order of powdered eggs they left them out of my last order. I feel better knowing I can use eggs to cook so many different things. Everytime I get an order I feel so much better until I think of something else I need.:)

In SE FL, our SuperTargets have powdered eggs and powdered egg whites in cans — plenty in stock at the one by me should anyone’s order not arrive.

I went to Costco for the first time today. It’s a brand new store but I wasn’t particularly impressed and didn’t sign up for a membership. However, it wasn’t all a lost cause. I was floored when the people I was with started discussing bird flu and are in the early stages of starting to worry. Believe me, if these particular folks are finally getting the message then there’s hope for others who’ve ignored it in the past.

From personal experience: plastic cat litter containers are just the right size for holding toilet flushing water. When almost full they’re not too heavy but contain enough water to flush properly.

Just out of curiousity, how much is everyone spending on preps? Between antivirals, water, stocking 3 months of food, camp stoves, lantern, fuel, etc. etc. etc. it is really getting expensive! I think I must’ve spent at least $1500-$2000 and still don’t feel like I’m close to being ready if TSHTF.

I’m reminded of the quote yesterday from the Singapore conference that (and I’m paraphrasing) no matter what you do to prepare I guarantee you it won’t be enough.

It would certainly be easier budget-wise to stretch preps out over the next year but who knows how much time we’ve got? Especially living in Southern California which the models say could be H2H ground zero. I’d just be curious to hear anyone elses thoughts on this. thx

You can only do what you can do and anything will be better than if you had done nothing at all. When I first found this site I was afraid that on our limited budget we were doomed. Some of the nice people here explained that I should just try to do the best I can and not worry too much. Since then I have gotten some incredible advice and I thank them all.

Yeah, the money is a problem for me, too. Lots of people here are smart shoppers, though, and have good advice. For example, I learned here how to can butter and I bet that’s a lot cheaper than buying the dehydrated butter, especially when I can get a pound of regular butter on sale for $1.

Money concerns have slowed down my prepping, but I did dehydrate some more meat and vegetables. Got some chicken on sale today and will freeze that (canning is a great idea, but don’t have the money for the pressure canner right now). And I received my shroom kit from Fungi Perfecti, so I’m going to start that this weekend. I ate my first home-grown lettuce yesterday and realized I had better plant more—one good salad would wipe it out!

Some good news from my sister the other day. She has a clerical job at a local hospital and some of the people she knows there are starting to prep. I don’t know what kind of plan the hospital has, but they have an infectious disease specialist who is watching the avian flu news closely and taking the threat seriously. The funny thing is that when my sister first talked to her friends about her crazy sister canning butter and everything, it was a joke to everybody; now they’re talking about putting together disaster kits! I’d like to think that I had something to do with raising consciousness about the flu.

Dusty – at 15:08

Dusty, I will definitely have to check out the local Super Targets. Wallyworld doesn’t carry the powdered eggs in my area. The local grocery stores haven’t restocked the powdered egg whites since the holidays. <sigh>

I have two #10 cans of powdered eggs, but I’d really like to have more. With a family of 7 that just isn’t going to go far if I’m trying to bake my own bread, make my own pasta, and every thing else that calls for eggs.

I’ve been rotating my preps over the last couple of weeks and started noticing gaps that are occuring. The biggest appears to be in the peanut butter department. <grin> And who is the biggest culprit? My hubby of course. Go figure.

The next thing I noticed is that the kids are starting to eat up the dried fruit, especially the raisins. Will need to get a BIG stockpile of those things, much bigger than I had budgeted for.

And, I noticed when I was just cooking from the scratch items that I got the munchies a lot. Didn’t give in and get stuff from the store, but it makes me think that I may need to add in more desserts and snack recipes to keep us all from going bonkers if we get the munchies.

And I need to add more sugar and drink mixes … now that the heat has really set in I’ve noticed the kids going trough all the drinks … water to koolaide … much more quickly. Perhaps making up for the change in diet that I am putting us through now. Or they are just going through a growth spurt. Either way, that’s a gap I’ll need to fill.

STH ~

A suggestion might be to keep your eye out on ebay for a pressure canner…I was just over there looking and they have a variety of prices and canners that are good deals…perhaps you might find something in your budget that will afford you the ability to start some home canning…

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&satitle=pressure+canner

Anyway, it’s just a thought…

Shad.

I put together a 2 page Q&A sheet on pandemic flu and a 4 page list of food and supplies (got most of the list from Rose’s list and Owl’s Nest here on fluwikie). Ran off a couple of dozen copies and passed them out to the neighbors’ mailboxes after the carrier came thru today. That way, the info would be in their regular mail and maybe they will be more likely to read it. I hope they read it and then follow up by watching the movie on Tuesday night. Maybe it will be more meaningful with some background data.

gw_doc ~

That same quote really hit me too…

As for preps, I’ve spend an astronomical amount, but I’ve been seriously prepping for about 7 years…alot of my preps are properly sealed long term storage (10–15 years), and a ton of stuff is just bulk buying. I think that for some of us who hafta do some sort of prep on a yearly basis for hurricanes or snowstorms or what have you, has already had us in the mindset of prepping.

I know alot of people that run into cash flow problems and temporarily are not able to add to their current preps, but there are a ton of ways to prep outside just food and needs for loss of electricity and water. In other words, there’s alot of prepping that is vital that doesn’t cost money.

I’ve looked into building my own solar oven…there is always lots of work involved in planning my garden for this fall…inventorying what I currently DO have, organizing it in a fashion that will make it easily available, making lists of things I want to buy…’spring cleaning’ my home to get rid of all these stupid things I thought at one time were ‘treasures’ that I could care less about now, to make room for important things like ongoing preps, etc…printing out and organizing in binders pertinent information that I’ve gleamed here on the net to be ready in case I need it in a pandemic…etc etc etc, the point being is the list is endless and I’ll never get to it all…

What you have done so far puts you far ahead (in my not so humble opinion) far ahead of the pack, per se. The most important thing you have for your preps is the proper mind set and you’ve been learning alot over the months that will help avoid unnecessary energy and/or money. Sometimes just buying a container of salt for your preps in any given week if money is tight, helps one to feel like they’re still moving forward. Years and years ago, when I was first married and money was very tight, I made a New Years resolution that I would buy one thing each month for my home, in an attempt to start fixing it up. One month I bought a $1.00 toothbrush holder, as that was all I could afford that month.

Ya wanna know what? After all these years, I still remember that $1.00 toothbrush holder and it holds more meaning than all the other stuff I’ve bought cause it signified progress in an area that was important to me, even though its value wasn’t worth that much.

Good luck and God bless.

Shad.

I made a New Years resolution that I would buy one thing each month for my home, in Shad: an attempt to start fixing it up. One month I bought a $1.00 toothbrush holder, as that was all I could afford that month. Ya wanna know what? After all these years, I still remember that $1.00 toothbrush holder and it holds more meaning than all the other stuff I’ve bought cause it signified progress in an area that was important to me, even though its value wasn’t worth that much.

Shad, very well said. Been there, done that and you’re soooooo right!

All of us have probably spent much more than we would possibly have believed we would have when we began. And I darsay not one of us feels as though we are in any position to face what may happen if the S actually does HTF.

But the important thing for all of us is that every single thing we do, every single thing we read and every single thing we learn gives us just that extra little additional chance at making it through whatever may come, and in so doing, help those whom we hold dear to also make it through.

Since what may yet come ranges from Not a Blessed Thing all the way to TEOTWAWKI, not all of us will be fully prepared or fully equipped to handle what we might face. But each and every one of the preppers that have been doing something are now better equipped than they would have been, and so still stand a better chance of coming through to what comes next.

If there should ever come that day when Mama or someone else posts the story that we all know signals the beginning of extended H2H, every single one of us will shout

 Wait! I’m not ready yet!

but each and every one of us will also begin doing the best that we can do, and thus improve the chances of the best outcome we can manage.

So since none of us will ever be rady, and none of us will ever have bought all of the Stuff that we think we will need, don’t freeze up like a deer staring at an oncoming car. Just keep on doing your thing, and note that every day that goes by, you’re just a little better equipped, both mentally and materially, to face whatever you will be asked to face.

And remember. For all of the bravado and self assuredness that some of us express here, no one can know what will happen, and no one can predict what you will face and how you will handle it. So just go on with life, keep prepping, and keep protecting those whom you hold dear.

You’re right, Shad, there’s plenty to be done that doesn’t cost anything. I am cleaning out some stuff and donating things I don’t need any more, so there is progress on that front. Thanks for the tip about ebay; I did get a good deal on a Coleman stove there, so I should see what kind of deals they have on pressure cookers.

And thank you, Shad, for the cheese-making linky you suggested to me a while ago. I’ve got three batches of basic cheese aging now; next time I’m going to try making mozzarella. I haven’t been able to find the citric acid for it, though; have you tried the (American-style) mozzarella recipe on Dr. F’s site?

Eccles – at 21:32 Well said, as usual!

I got the tube tent I ordered. It is now in my bug out kit.

Eccles, thanks for the calming words!

REI has a sale now, 25% off Smartwool sox. I got my daughter a Katadyn water filter (also on sale), and some chlorine-type purification tablets for both of us. (Wish she lived closer than 1000 miles to us.) At Sears, bought a pick/mattock to dig holes for fence posts.

Have been prepping since last September. Don’t know how much we have spent. It’s a large sum. Some things are reasonable, such as canned goods, bulk items such as beans, pasta, rice, now buying stuff mostly on sale when I see it. Still puzzled as to what to do for bread. Freezer too small for more than a few loaves Bought some Ak-Mak crackers at Trader Joes, excellent, but short shelf life. Company says about four months. Have never done any baking, but that is an option. Maybe time to buy the bread machine I was hot to buy years ago but never did.

Bought couple of cases of MREs, about $62 each at Meyers, less if you buy five or more, good item to bug out and shelf life if kept cool can be as much as ten years, no cooking required. Small freezer full, the most expensive food item has been dehyrated/freeze dried foods, obtained from 3 places, every month when pay day comes around (retired) get another box. Understand their shelf life is very long if stored properly. Backup heat with woodstove, some wood stored. Small butane stove for cooking if power goes out. Hope if IT happens that it is not Summer. No A/C, even here in New England could be tough, we are both very sensitive to the heat. Old kerosene lantern, LED lantern, fluorescent lantern, candles, lots of batteries, need more. Have about 24 gallons of water. Two 55 gallon water barrels, pump and siphon, bleach, even food grade hose to fill when they are needed. Hate to think of it, because I am not even a big fan of the death penalty, but am armed and proficient with my weapon of choice. This old Vietnam vet will protect my family if needed, but plan that if I can will help family, neighbors.

Meds are still a work in progress. Tamiflu ok, OTC meds as per Woodson, still trying to get the prescription items he recommends. As many here have reported, my Doc not amenable to giving out script prior to the fact. Feel we are pretty much on our own whether it is local, state or federal government and the medical folks. Spent the last week back and forth to local hospital with relative, most of the nurses I spoke with about the flu did not seem too concerned or knowledgeable, one did tell me the hospital was planning for it, and the hospital emergency room fairly busy on what was described as a slow day. Don’t think they will be of a lot of help if IT happens. So plan on doing my prepping, reading Fluwikie. As we all know, we never are done, but feel fairly comfortable with what we have done and could probably survive six months with little problem.

Thanks to all of you for your contributions, and especially to Melanie, Reveres, all the mods, and Pogge for his yeoman service in our recent difficulties. Can’t even keep my computer up sometimes! Wonderful to read contributions by so many who have so much expertise in so many areas, and the various Docs, Monotreme, The Doctor, Niman, Dr. Webster, and all the others, forgive me for leaving any of you out, but this old brain can not remember them all.!!

Keep on Preppin’ !!!!

NauticalMan – at 13:37

Check on the recipes for bread that I’ve been posting in the two recipe threads. They are listed in the main forum index if you can’t find them at a glance.

One thing I haven’t mentioned is that Bisquick makes a good mix that you just add water to to make “drop” biscuits. I forget where you are located at … US or Europe … but even in Europe I would think there was something similar.

Hope this helps.

Broused around the fairgrounds. Got a white glazed Strawberry jar, and hugh candle in the shape of a white chicken with a red comb. Also found an odd cord wick with a stopper to put into a bottle of oil for light. A French Garlic holder, Red Pottery made in the village that Picasso used for his plates. Beautiful. Holds a lot of garlic. More tins. French perfume from Fragonards. Between garlic, french perfume and lavender cream, no one will want to get anywhere near me.

smiles.. that’s what you think

Kathy inFL, thanks for the references for bread making, but the Bisquick recipe is probably out, think it has dairy in it, as one of us is very lactose intolerant, ruling out most bread mixes, etc., but making things from scratch, substituting soymilk for regular works fine, at least for things like pancakes which I do all the time.

Just finished canning 14 quarts of bean soup. I had two large ham bones and about 5# of left over ham from Easter, that will be very nice eating one of these days.

Had chinese fried rice, stringbeans and spareribs last nite. Left the rements in packaging on car inner ledge. Slept late, good dreams, didn’t go out till noon. Well. The rice and spareribs were delicious, piping hot. The string beans very overcooked. I really think one can cook on your cars dash it it is more than 60 degrees and in the sun. Just don’t leave your prep foods in the car. The orange juice I had left behind was set to explode. Last day at the fairgrounds. More tins, this time christmas tins, large gold stars and cookie cutter Christmas tree. I plan to enjoy Xmas for many years sto come. Lots of clay pots and clay dishes to set them on. Enough for all kinds of herbs.People from all over the world. From India, Banglesesh, Ghana, every language spoken, and spending down to their last dollar with hugh smiles.

footnote to Kathy in FL - 13:53 The drop biscuits from Bisquick are wonderful in chicken/dumplings(just like grandma used to make). Haven’t tried it with canned chicken, but maybe if added a can of chicken broth would get a decent meal.

Nautical man at 13:37: I’ve made drop biscuits with barley flour and buttermilk in my cast iron frying pan, with a lid to keep in the heat. The fry pan works with corn bread or pancakes, too. Yogurt works in some bread or muffin recipes too, for the lactose intolerant.

There’s a garden cart (at Pep Boys and at Big Lots) that looks good-it holds 750 pounds! But it has pneumatic tires, so if one goes flat, then what? Does anyone have one of these? Is it risky to have tires that can go bad? Maybe the red Radio Flyer wagon is good enough.

Hi Jane, I have one of those wagons, green, all metal, the sides fold up and down with air tires. Its great. If a tire goes flat (Ive had mine for 2 years and have never had a flat) you can replace the tube with a scooter tube. I was concerned about that too when I bought it but Ive never had a problem. It is soooo handy for everything from gardening to camping to just moving heavy stuff. It was pricey but has definately been worth it. Before this one I had one of those big red wooden sided wagons and it did not hold up like this one.

my daughter’s school had dress wierd week a while ago and I went to goodwill, salvaion army… to look for a bunch of mixed up clothes and saw candle, candle holders, bread machines… great prices.

Nautical Man:

I’m in New England also. Where did you purchase a food grade hose?

Got out the cookbooks and started looking for gourmet meals I can make with prep foods. Found some great stuff.

ollie at 18:54 - I bought a short one in the RV section of Walmart. There might have been a longer one in their garden section.

Noticed that Wally World has many of those “complete meals” by Betty Crocker or some such. For those who are like me..and are NOT going to prep with wheat etc., these will be nice to fill out my preps. My hubby, retired military, calls them common man MRE’s. We are a convenience eating family. They have expanded the offering since the last time I looked at them. I think they were $3.

If you live anywhere near a Trader Joes, go check it out. They carry a weird mix of items, but their prices are always very good on what they do carry. Many of their items are private label knock-offs of popular items for much less. They do their own version of Tasty Bites - I grabbed a stack of them the other day. I figured they would be great to mix with boring old rice and many of them either have beans, lentils, etc. which is good for protein. They also have good deals on protein powder - I am concerned about my young kids getting enough protein if we are on a high-starch diet, so I can add this to their food. Also, nice dehydrated berries, nuts, etc.

GetNReady, are those “complete meals” in the grocery section?

I’m sure this is a dumb question, that has probably been asked (and I can’t find) - I want to buy some dried eggs, but I can’t figure out why one companies 10# can contains the equivalent of 96 eggs and another compnay has a 2.25lb can, that has an equivalent of 170 eggs. I hope someone can answer today, because I would like to get my order in by tomorrow (though I really don’t think that the abc special will make much difference, but you never know!) And on that note, my city newspaper did a 2nd section, front page on BF, and the local news is going to talk about being prepared, tonight. Maybe some are paying attention! Thanks, in advance :-)

Thanks Jane, will look into using yogurt in place of milk. Olly, bought my food grade hose on internet, place unknown, but have heard that they are available at RV suppliers, and yes, as Jane said, Walmart. And LauraB, since I tried Tasty Bite, have bought a ton of them direct from their website, discounts sometimes available, get on their mailing list. Checked website this moment, offering 10% on orders over $50, but recent email from them, good until 5/13, the discount is 25% if you order at least 2 six packs, use code MD25. Just ordered 3 sixpacks of Bombay Potatoes,using that code. Eat at least one of the entrees every week, most moderately spicy. Usually one is enough for two if having it with rice. And did see that Trader Joes now has their own brand, probably made for them by Tasty Bite? TJoes brand has even more of a variety, so maybe not made all by TB.. TB has a number of items that are vegan, and most are vegetarian, a few have cheese. Packaging is retort? pouches, similar to the MRE meals.

We love Trader Joes. Great stuff, usually very healthy versions, at nice prices.. And no, am not affiliated in any way, but is it publicly traded or a privately held company? Might be worth looking into!

Lily, please don’t drink orange juice that has been left out and gotten hot. It can be very dangerous and make you quite sick.

preppiechick – at 19:51

a 2.25lb can, that has an equivalent of 170 eggs

The only thing I can say is physically impossible.

AV-Yes they are. Things such as beef stroganoff, chicken alfredo, chicken with mashed potatoes gravy and biscuit topping to name a few. I think they are near the hamburger helper etal.

Planted 8 more blueberry bushes on my property today…replaced some ornamental bushes that were looking shabby and tired. These bushes are in addition to the 6 I already have. I adore blueberries and like to dehydrate them. I figure it’s a nice perennial fruit supply that thrives in my climate and soil conditions. Not to mention how incredibly good for you they are!

Picked up an 8 pack of celery starts and also popped those into the veggie garden.

Pailed up another bucket each of sugar and rice which I purchased yesterday while doing my big monthly Costco shopping. I am getting good at doing the mylar bag/oxygen packs thing by myself.

Preppiechick- The 170 eggs per can sounds like the Honeyville Grain whole eggs. I have been using one of the cans for a while now, and my observation is that the eggs they rate against must be pretty small. For my own purpose of estimation, I would say that I get the equivalent of about 100 eggs from the can.

EOD- it is quite possible since they remove all of the water from the egg. That takes oout ALOT of volume.

I am also quite happy with the taste/utility of their product.

eod- thanks, that’s what I thought, but i’ve never bought any dried canned items before. That’s what it says on the nutrition label, on honeyville, and i’ve seen people from here talk about buying from them. The 10#, 96 egg can was from beprepared.com. Guess it’s new math!

eccles- Thanks! As you can see, I’m a very slow typist, and easily distracted, and you posted while i was typing!

eccles- Thanks! As you can see, I’m a very slow typist, and easily distracted, and you posted while i was typing! (p.s. i’ve been a lurker for a while and am a fan of yours!)

preppiechick – at 21:50 - I’m want to be a member of the Eccles fan club, too! (Not to mention several others here whose wisdom I admire.)

tims- Yeah, we should start a new thread called the eccles fan club. (and you’re right , this in no way diminishes our appreciation of many others!)They give us so much to aspire to.

2 bodybags , 2 ID kits and the instruction and discussion with the family about using them. Why 2 bodybags? I cannot decide if I am being optmistic or pessimistic. I think they are as important as food, TP and weapons. http://www.emprep.com/ Kelly

Gawrsh!

Fan clubs are not the usual reaction that I inspire in folks!

I’m honored, and will try to live up to the position you place me in. But my vote for Fan Club worthiness goes to Melanie, Pogge, Dem and the Reveres. Without their unending tireless and thankless efforts, this Wiki could not exist.

I am positive that should a pandemic occur within the next several years, they will have, singlehandedly, changed the outcome in a very tangible and measurable way for the entire population of the planet. That may sound grandiose to some, but that’s my opinion and I’m sticking to it.

I am a lurker, not much of a poster. When I first learned of BF I bought an additional 35 cans of soup, some crackers and extra Diet Coke. I have a big pantry and thought that little top-off would hold us over. Needless to say when my son came home from college this weekend, he had to put his new bed (an inflatable mattress) elsewhere. Not even enough room for a twin inflatable in my new prep room. This wiki, the mods, and posters are resposible for the change in this family’s level of preperation. I can’t thank all of you enough.

Leslie: I feel the same way. What price can you put on your family’s survival?

Eccles

Agree with you that the Fluwikie group and those who run it will end up making a big difference to the survival of a lot of people when/if TSHTF. Did not realize how much I have learned until talking with people who think I am an expert when it comes to the subject, all learned here! At this point I know enought to know how little I know…I salute you all!

Eccles – at 06:47 “But my vote for Fan Club worthiness goes to Melanie, Pogge, Dem and the Reveres. Without their unending tireless and thankless efforts, this Wiki could not exist.”

Agreed! Wholeheartedly and unabashedly! Add that they perform this great public service with grace and style.

There are many with knowledge. Some of those know how to apply that knowledge. A few know how to communicate the application of knowledge. The rarity that we find here is doing all of that with a touch of class and enough wit to bring an occasional smile to an otherwise dark subject.

My recent prep was a trip to the range. DW and I had a lesson in proper position of the ‘off’ hand with a semi-auto pistol. Blue steel slides trump a misplaced thumb every time. ‘Tis good to keep a first aid kit handy.

Has anyone here had any experience with “nutrisystem”? I checked their site and they say that their products have a 6 to 18 month shelf life and do not require refrigeration. Looks like an easy way to get a range of food for preps at about the cost of MRE’s. Anyone ever tried any of their items?

DennisC – at 18:37: I was thinking about buying a month’s worth of Nutrisystem but checked epinions.com first to see what other people thought. The negative comments about the food itself were so emphatic- no flavor, tiny portions, more sauce than substance- that I decided against the investment.

Wrenna – at 19:00 Thanks, I guess if you want to “survive” you shouldn’t skimp on calories.

Tall,

Thanks for the props.

Someday I’ll tell you about the time my NRA, heavily armed father shot the refrigerator and wounded himself on a Baretta 9mm.

LOL - And I’ll tell you about the “expert” killing three televisions. THREE!!!

eccles-

Of course, I was referring to the mods, with the others, in the appreciation cateory! I shudder to think where we would be without them.

Now to stay on topic, so I don’t get in trouble…I went to WM, on an “unrelated” trip today, and picked up some sewing repair items. I’m sure that someone has already mentioned it here, before, but of course it just dawned on me today. I know that it is better to have started, than none at all, but it does seem like a dauntless task, with many items that will be forgotten (and I’d be stretching to say that I was near level 1!).

On an encouraging note, I emailed my younger sister today, with a bunch of links, to encourage her to start prepping. But this is a girl who doesn’t cook and doesn’t have ANYTHING in her cabinets. Of course, she has put up with me and y2k and the duct tape ordeal! I just mentioned BF to her in the realm of other stuff, like the economy and iran. She did say that since the hurricane, a couple of years ago in virginia beach, when they lost electricity for a couple of weeks, she has been thinking about stocking up more - but she thinks a couple of flashlights and batteries are prepping! Oh, well, at least it is something. Actually, I think that she might add some stuff, and she lives in military housing, so maybe she’ll pass the word!

Started a new thread since this one is a bit long.

New thread Todays Flu Prep II

Old thread - Closed to increase Forum speed.