With the possibility of not having electricity, or of it being at least sporadic thus undependable, I am looking into battery powered options for providing illumination for different purposes in the house. There are different quantities of light desired depending upon the room or task needing to be illuminated. For instance, in the kitchen a broad work and eating space would be helpful to be lit all at once, compared to reading, where a mini book lamp would work. I have a Black Diamond Cosmo model head lamp, which I LOVE, which with the LED output works really well for task lighting and path light when moving around, but the blubs have a limited spray range of light, and it tends to get hot and uncomfortable after a while from the headband. 90 degrees is normal in the summer here in MO, with not much even cooling down at night. I have WONDERFUL flashlights that are windup called Illuminator, and everyone - planning 9 to 13 folks to sip on the farm - will each have their own. I just got a little LED 2 bulb light that hangs around the neck instead of on a headband, by Rayovac, which is great for light directly in front of you and can clip onto shirt to not bob around with each step. It is good for walking around with hands full of other stuff but lights outward more than down. I may get some solar garden path lights to charge AA batteries, but not for their light output which I found to be no better than a candle. I got at Radio Shack a wonderfully bright snake arm halogen light to plug into a DC power outlet like in a car that was on sale for 5 bucks, but since it is not a table top design I have to work on how to use it in the house. I like it’s performance so much, especially considering the cost, I just went back and got all 5 they had left actually, and will get replacement bulbs for back stock.
I do not want to use a liquid fuel (not renewable) and have no generator, but will use candles in hurricane type vases for fire safety, and have the ability and supplies to make more. I have lots of NIMH standard sized rechargable batteries AA,AAA,D with a charger, and a Xantrex Powerpack 400 Plus which is portable 400 WATTS, about the size of a music boom box, with 2 AC outlets and a 12V DC outlet (could use the snake light there, but the Xantrex takes up a lot of space on a tabletop). Considering the ease of controller and inverter built into one package in the Xantrex, I may even get another one of those - $99 on Amazon with free shipping expense. I will be getting at least one 15 watt solar panel for charging the Xantrex. Is one panel enough I wonder? I am not electrically minded, but very handy in putting things together from odds and ends, and I can make anything if I understand the concept and directions. I’ve got tools. I am in the process of collecting the parts to convert our exercise bike which has a large fly wheel into a pedal powered generator to use to charge batteries with, and keep every one fit - teeehee. Illumination is probably the only thing these batteries will be used for. We are designing to build an outdoor cook oven and have a solar well pump setup and will use solar to have warm showers - probably gravity fed - still working on that design. We are all campers, so roughing it is no prob. However, considering the time frame it is suggested we should prepare to sip for, I’d really like things to not be TOO tough. It will be intense enough with all the other things to cope with.
So I think I have the power part of the equation worked out (though wouldn’t mind any comments or thoughts in that area either), but I am having a terrible time figuring out the light FIXTURE part. I’d greatly appreciate any tried and true performance fixture suggestions for illuminating activites such as cooking and group gatherings (cluster of folks around a table for dining or games). I’d rather not have each of us holding a flashlight at the table!
Of course, we “could” just go to bed when the sun goes down, but in the winter here in MO it can get pitch dark by 5:30 in the evening! and we DO love to play games. Any and all thoughts welcomed…thanks. Linda
I have a number of lighting options, including solar yard lights (will explain how to make it better inside the house at night), kerosene laterns, candles. I used to have (for the last 7 years) solar panels, wind generators, storage batteries, now taking down. Instead of paying out 5 grand for new batteries, just selling the system away piece by piece, and use that money in more effient ways.
Using the small solar yard lights, if you place aluminum foil on three sides of it, to increase the bounce of the light, it does very good and of course recharge the next day outside. It does provide enough light to see by, and if you have a couple will really put out light (remember the foil). Also do have kerosene laterns that my parents had, and kerosene, but be careful and do not let young childen use the lamps, not only for breakage but fire danger if dropped. Candles have been used for centuries, but again make sure a non-combustible container is used and one that cannot tip over, as well as keep it away from other combustibles such as drapes, clothing, bed materials and the like. I was a fire investigator when in the fire service, and had many many fires started from candles just from carelessness.
Totally without electricity- I have some tritium key chains. They glow for 12 years or so. But you have to get them via the UK.
Not exactly with out electricity -But I like my Krill lights. They take 2 AA batteries and last 120+ hours on the two AA batteries. They glow about like a “chem light”.
For the living room I use a crank “eGear” light. It has 15 or so LED built in and works fairly well. I also have assorted crank flashlights.
Of course, my prime light/power source is electric - solar array and deep cycle batteries. I also have some solar walkway lights that I plan on using if needed. But they are really solar electric.
I am trying to work up a long life phosphorescent system. (Inventor type)- It is a solution of phosphorescent paint in water (kids non toxic kind). I have it in an aquarium in the green house and am working up a way to pump it into the house in the evening. The solution goes in a polycarb panel (the insulation kind that has a cavity between two panels). Not really very practical yet- but it is fun.
LEG one renewable (not locally for me) source of liquid fuel for illumination is olive oil. See page at Lehman’s down to More Ideas.
Never leaving a candle or any other flame unattended in a room, even “for a moment” is a good safety rule. (Smoke detectors, batteries, fire extinguishers, a must too, of course.)
LEG, are the halogen lamps better than the twisted fluorescent bulbs in normal lamps? I know they are bright, but the halogen torchieres have started fires, when used incorrectly, because the bulbs get so hot. The fluorescent bulbs stay cool and don’t use as much power. (I think the fires started because the lamps were knocked over, or someone threw some fabric over the fixture, but the amount of heat makes me think that a lot of power is being wasted.) I don’t have any, so I don’t know the wattage or anything.
LEG - The points you bring up have all been discussed at length over the past year or so. Of course, tracking down all of those threads would be difficult now. There have been a great many ideas discussed in the Alternative Power thread series, now up to chapter 6 (soon to go to 7)
One point about solar yard lights. I first started playing with them as a solar battery charger. Then I discovered the secret. They are terrible area lights but very good task lights. They need to be hung above the area to be lit and shining straight down on them. The particular lights that I have fit nicely into the soffet fixtures over the bathroom counter, and just one of them throws enough light to function OK in the bathroom, tending to ones care and meds, etc. I bought a case of 6 dual pack boxes, so that’s like a dozen I can use for standing lights in the event things are dark for a while. One thing to keep in mind, like in everything else, there is a difference in which unit you buy. I looked at several in Big Lots that didn’t look like they were worth the match to set them on fire. The ones I have from Malibu are really El Primo.
As my DW says, You don’t get what you don’t pay for.
Try checking in on the Alternative power thread and find out just how much talent and how many helpful guys there are on the Wikie in just that area alone.
Jane - Halogen bulbs, in and of themselves, are niehter good or evil. they are an upgraded incandescent bulb that runs the filament much hotter than a standard bulb, which therefore packs alot more heat into a small space. this extra heat makes the outer shell of the bulb hot enough to ignite things like cloth and paper.
The lamps that have been the real problem have been in the 100 - 3oo watt size range, and they are that size because the torchiere lamp configuration is really really poor at efficiently dispensing light around a room. So they use really large wasteful and unsafe bulbs to make up for it.
In the hierarchy of things, a halogen bulb produces about 15% more light from a given amount of power than a standard old fashioned light bulb. For instance, a 60 watt light bulb will produce about 850–890 lumens of light. A 60 watt halogen buld will produce about 960–1020 lumens on the same amount of electricity.
but a compact fluorescent lamp (the twisty one) will produce that amount of light and only use about 15–18 watts to do it. So for emergency and low cost lighting, and for reducing you electric bills, they are unbeaten.
Now, in small form factors, like flashlights and automobile headlights, halogen bulbs offer several advantages, and put out substantially better light than the old fashioned buld, primarily due to the birght white clor of light instead of the dull yellow of the older style bulbs. So you see better on the same amount of power consumed.
I hope this helps clear things up a bit. if not, just ask some more, andI’ll type some more. or just say Shut Up Eccles and shut up I shall.
No electricity > human power > hand-crank flash lights.
ANON-YYZ -
or there is also this one footed stepping thing that some folks have written about.
Thanks all for the input so far.
I wonder what the difference is between using an AC light fixture with a florescent bulb plugged into the Xantrex 400 compared to a DC light fixture using the exact same bulb plugged into the Xantrex?
halogens are energy suckers, go for LEDs or fluorescent if power source is limited like battery (and that may also count for the world energy supply and peoples wallets.. and the clima, the panda etc…
for realy strong light a 100w kerosene lamp is the trick,
LEG - You can’t use the exact same compact fluorescent bulb on both AC and DC, the balleasts are incompatibly different. In the case of the same wattage of compact fluorescent in DC vs AC format, the DC will win with regard to efficiency of battery use. That is because the inverter which needs to convert DC from the battery to AC to feed the lamp is not necessary if you have a direct DC compact fluorescent blamp. Thus, for maximum battery efficiency, use a DC compact fluorescent. For ease of purchase and compatibility with the rest of your home, usa an AC lamp. The choice is really yours.
got it Eccles, I’ll stick with DC. - and I will look again within the alternative power chapters, but you are right, it takes a lot of time to sift for something specific.
LEG – at 17:56
I use a Coleman rechargeable fluorescent lantern. Rechargeable from AC, 12V DC or solar 12V DC. So I could charge the lantern from a Xantrex DC output. I believe you lose power if you use the inverter. Wherever possible, try to find a 12V appliance. One thing to remember when you use the DC outlet off the Xantrex - turn on the AC switch which has a low battery alarm to avoid killing the battery.
Exactly ANON-YYZ - I love that idea of using the AC switch battery alarm. There are so many built in safety features to this Xantrex that I have much peace of mind using it. I just hope it holds up to my expectations.
Can I get an extension cord for the dc outlet so the Xantrex can be a distance from the fixture?
These aren’t fixtures integrated into a system, but I’m happy with the two Solar Navigator Lanterns I bought. Each has a radio with Weatherband and light that is bright enough to illuminate a room. I can recharge them in the sun or, when there is electricity, simply plug them in. They function for about 7 hours before they have to be recharged. Also have a couple of battery operated lanterns and a solar battery charger. If the sun comes for one day out of four or five, I shouldn’t be in the dark.
LEG - You need to be mindfull of some of the rules of electricity when you anticipate using an extension cord for a DC device. Since they are running at a low voltage (12V) they tend to operate at a much higher current level to achieve the same amount of power. unfortunately, power lost in the wiring increases as the SQUARE of the current. That means that adding any additional wire increases the power losses in the system, and also reduces the voltage available to the device at the end of the extes=nsion cord. If you have a high enough powered device, the device my fail to operate correctly on an extension cord, and the cord may get hot enough to present a safety hazard for burns or fire ignition.
While I admire everyone’s dilligence in prepping so carefully, I really think you’re making this unncessarily difficult for yourselves. Flashlights are great if you have to go outside in the rain or clunk an intruder on the head, but otherwise candles do just fine. One good tealight will last about 3 or 4 hours. Put them in sensible holders (a heavy and wide-based glass, for example, or a lantern type design) and out of reach of kids, animals and anything else that could catch fire, like curtains, and there shouldn’t be a problem. I’ve never known a candle to jump off a shelf and set fire to anything (note I don’t live in an earthquake zone). The worst I’ve seen is slightly burnt tail fur and eyebrow whiskers (the little cat keeps sniffing the candles - d’oh) and a bit of wax dripped on the carpet.
I’ve always asked people who didn’t know what to buy as a gift for either candles or towels. I could now easily either illuminate my neighbourhood for a month or flannel it into submission.
our cabin longest stretc of 12v dc is about 12 meters from a car battery, works fine on a radio, small bw tv and some lightbulbs, (but not all on the same time) the cable is standard lamp cable. Swithing to LED only now for light, and who needs color tv anyway ;-)
Dizzy - I thnk the issue here is that candles are a Non-renewable resource. In the case of a short outage, that’s fine, but for the long term, they will eventually be all gone. In my case, I stock several hundred candles, but once they’re gone, then what?
Once you’ve burned several hundred candles and the power is still out then we’ve got more to worry about than how to light the room.
A lot of the time you get leftover wax. You can recycle that and make new candles. You can buy proper wicking material but string would do it too. That could double up as a bored teenager project. It’s not very difficult, although it requires care and can be messy. Candles can also provide a little heat if you’re in a cold spot. Without power, apart from the hand crank and solar stuff, you’ll eventually run out of batteries too. Bulbs don’t last forever either no matter where the power comes from. So just how much stuff is everyone going to prep, and remember to prep?
If someone already has too much too think about candles are the easiest, cheapest and most reliable option. And they’re also beautiful to look at and provide a very pleasing kind of light if you’re feeling miserable.
I had two skylight put in. That solved a lot of light problems. They also have those solar tubes. OK so it is just for day time, but they do help. I will likely not be doing too much at night if the utilities are off anyway.
Urdar Norge, you may want to concider a marine “deep cycle”. You won’t get many charge/discharge cycles out of a car battery.
Remember that even the solar walk lights have batteries. Mine have lasted at least two years now but I don’t know how many years they are really good for. I have notice they sale the batteries for them so they much give out sometime. Eccles- do you know?
Would candles contaminate the air, especially in winter when we don’t want to open the windows and ventilation system won’t work without electricity?
ANON-YYZ – at 18:45 “Would candles contaminate the air, especially in winter when we don’t want to open the windows and ventilation system won’t work without electricity?”
I should think all combustion takes away oxygen and creates carbon dioxide, right?
ANON-YYZ, I don’t know the answer to that. However I have seen candles for sale that claim to cleanse cigarette smoke in some way (I don’t necessarily believe that, and I think they’re probably normal candles anyway). But in any case you’ll have to ventilate your home regularly. Fresh air and sunlight are your friends, I don’t care what anyone says about the virus blowing in the wind. And you don’t want to end up in a situation where you get mold through condensation resulting from poor ventilation. That can kill you too, though maybe not so fast as BF.
I’m not an expert, but I agree with Dizzy. Ventilation should solve any concerns about contamination.
There *might* be concerns about lead wicks (perhaps more a concern around small children), but I don’t know how many candle makers still use them.
Anon_22, you are correct (as usual :-)
I guess it depends on how much combustion and what kind of cubic area we are looking at. Breathing does essentially the same thing and we don’t suffocate because the window is shut. By analogy, we would if we slept in a coffin. Fortunately, houses are not 100% airtight and ventilation is a design feature. In old houses that could mean under the eaves or via the chimney, in modern houses perhaps air vents on windows or in the brickwork. Formaldehyde from new carpets and furniture and bleach fumes are more of a problem than CO2.
I’m sticking with the old-fashioned on this one. To any flubies currently in meltdown, Aunt Dizzy says buys loads of candles then worry about the fancy stuff :-p
I think it’s more than carbon dioxide. Some of the vapors may not have burnt but suspend in the air as particles. I think the air gets polluted if you use candles for days on end. If you blow out a candle, you can see that white smoke in concentration, but invisible vapors still escape when the candle is burning. Without electricity, ventilation system doesn’t work. That means the air never gets through the filters. I really don’t know what this means for people who have breathing challenges.
I’ve used candle lanterns while camping for decades. They are sturdy and easy to pack.
ANON-YYZ, that’s a fair point. I don’t know what that smoke is made of but it’s worth consideration. I’ll still take my chances with candles, as I tend to keep my windows open even when it’s snowing outside.
Dizzy @ 18:33
Once you’ve burned several hundred candles and the power is still out then we’ve got more to worry about than how to light the room.
You are correct, and this has been discussed at length for as long as I have been a participant in Fluwikie (and that’s getting to be a Looong time).
But many of us do believe that there will be extended periods in which utilities will be unreliable or unavailable, and have undertaken to equip ourselves appropriately such that we can carry on some kind of normal existence indefinitely (or at least until the food runs out). In my case, the provisions to feed the humans should be long gone before I reach the end of life for almost any of my power and lighting technologies.
The lack of utilities is not the problem, but the symptom. One needs to plan for whatever conditions they believe will be most likely to occur. It sounds, in this case, as though you are planning for less drastic and austere conditions than I am. We will either both be proven wrong because nothing happens, or something greater than either of our plans happens, or we will both be OK because we will encounter conditions which we will ultimately be able to deal with, My crystal ball is out to the shop right now, so I really can’t predict.
We lost power just this week and determined that battery power is out of the question for long periods. We have 3 Solar Lamps which are recharging now. We are going to add 3 more. I have looked at the Aladen Oil Lamps as they give off the most light, But are way to expensive. I have 2 Oil lamps and we have decided to add at least 4 more with lots and lots of oil. The real problem was the heat and no cold water unless we used ice. That is going to be a real bummer over a long term. The battery powered TV worked ok but being cut down too 3 channels was an eye opener. Was only planning on using it for news anyway but a bummer none the less. Guess I will have to bit the bullet and take Professor Eccles power course and figure a way to set up some solar panels.
Eccles, you are right that I’m not going for the nuclear winter scenario. I’m not saying it’s not possible, it could be; I just don’t think it’s likely. But I think everyone’s best made plans will be screwed if it does happen and we’ll be looking at a more primitive lifestyle. So I do what I do up to a point, and after that point all bets are cancelled and I’m not going to worry about it now. If it gets that bad I think people are fooling themselves if they think normal, or anything close to it, is achievable or sustainable, and I’d rather just get on and adapt to the new reality.
Anon 451 - what brand and model are your solar lanterns and have you compared their output to candles? (I do not want to use any liquid fuel lanterns)
Eccles – at 19:50
I think lighting ought to be the easiest to accomplish when it comes to renewable source. My plans consist of one hand crank flash light for each person in the household, and (solar) rechargeable fluorescent lanterns for those situations where you need to be hands free. If the sun doesn’t come out for several days, I need alternative source of non-renewable lighting. I would like to stick to rechargeable lantern if possible - which means generator fuel. Do you have a comparison of price, storage space, safety of generator fuel vs. candles and lamp oil?
They are the Brinkmans out of Wal Mark. They are 6 volt lamps and are at least 3 to 4 candle power. They also have a low light LED for a night light, but I have my path way lights (solar) for that.
thanks so much Anon_451.
I purchased several wind-up flashlights from Costco last fall, and was very happy with them. At first. Now when I try to use them, they simply will not give light for more than a minute or so, and you can literally see it dimming by the second. They work if I continually crank them, but that’s not practical. When I first got them a decent cranking would last almost a full hour. I am very disappointed with these and am thinking of returning them.
We are now going to depend on candles for the most part. I make them as a hobby and have a many hand-dipped ones that burn well. And lots of wax and used candles purchased at yard sales over they years to make container candles.
A safe candle holder - metal bucket or wide metal kitchen pot filled with dry sand or kitty litter. Place candles securely in litter, and light. Put where it wont be disturbed.
Easy to make non-aesthetic container candles: melt wax in double boiler (clean metal can in cooking pot with simmering water in bottom of pot). In a glass pint mason jar or other heavy glass, pour melted wax about 1–2 or more inches deep. When this is starting to noticeably set but still very soft, stick a used taper candle into this cooling wax and hold briefly till it stands straight. This happens very fast. Then pour more melted wax till you reach the top of the taper.
Candles and oil lamps are fine except children have not grown up around them the way they did in the 19th and early 20th centuries. That is where your problem will lie, even if you as an adult can learn the proper protocols for safety and not deviate.
Many an old home does not exist today because of those risks. People asphyxiating themselves with their methods of heating and burning down their homes with their stoves, fireplaces, lamps, and candles will be a major problem.
Fire is unforgiving. Stubbing your toe in the dark, losing some reading/play time, or enduring some cold conditions are not catastrophic to your health or your home. And you are “lying low”, (under the radar), which will be very important for that First Wave and its immediate aftermath. You do not want to attract attention.
I know this is a contrarian view. But life will change as we know it, at least for a while.
Buy some cold weather sleepingbags and go to bed with the chickens and rise with the rooster, figuratively, of course. : )
Mosaic – at 20:50 I think it was Eccles that advised us to be sure to crank you crank up powered devices to keep the batteries up. I know that in my Honda Insight the batteries are never allowed to charge more than 80% or drop below 20% (nickel hydride type). so for for newbies here two points: be sure to keep your rechargeables recharged every month or so, and IMPORTANT: be sure to have a battery operated smoke/CO detector if you burn anything indoors and keep the generator outside.
I am using an eGear lantern and keep it charged via an ac wall transformer. I will use the crank if the utilities go out, but the transform keeps it “toped off” and ready to go.
ANON-YYZ – at 20:59 No they look just like the Coleman rechargeable Full size Lanterns (checked the web site and did not see them) Only bad thing is the battery takes about 15 hours (2 days)to fully recharge using the sun. That is why I want to get three more. Three in use and three charging. Did the same with the path way lights. Got a set of 18 for six in use and 12 charging (takes 3 days to fully recharge) The oil lamps would be for the winter, heat light and I can leave the solar units out longer to charge.
Anon_451 – at 21:36
Thanks
I have the Coleman Rechargeable with a 9W fluorescent U-tube. The AC charger has output of 400mA at 12V. Full charge will run on low light for 9 hours and takes 16 hours to recharge. However, I won’t use it for more than 3 hours per night then I would charge it from 12V battery, probably immediately after turning the lights out to sleep. Theoretically that means by morning, it will be back to full charge and I have to get the 12V batteries charged by solar (approximately 26W of charging).
If your Brinkmann is just a rechargeable lantern and solar is separate, then would you get more for your dollars on panels and batteries than on more lanterns?
Can anyone advise me what size solar pv panel I should get to charge a Xantrex 400? Specs say it has a sealed 20 Ah battery (w/ 400 watt inverter). Runs 115V AC or 12 V DC. And do I need a controller between the panel and the Xantrex?
LEG – at 22:09
I think I have the same model. It comes with built in charger and inverter. You should not let it run below 50% before charging. That means you have to replenish 10Ah at 12V or 120Wh. Depending on the hours of sun you have, that’s how you size the panels.
Eccles will likely jump in and give you more specific advice. I posted just so the Xantrex information is not lost.
I think some of us have gone off the deep end when it comes to alternative light sources, including myself! Don’t think we will be without power for long periods of time except in a worst case scenario. Myself have candles, crank LED lights, LED lantern, fluorescent lantern, old kerosene lantern, will order soon an Aladdin oil lamp and maybe a case of their lamp oil, which is supposed to be so pure as to give off little smoke or odor. The Aladdin allegedly gives off a couple of thousand BTU’s of heat so might be a help during cold weather at least when we are awake to watch it. Keep buying lots and lots of Alkalines, both for the lights and a couple of battery powered fans. Wish I had room for more wood for my old Mid Moe wood stove, it will heat the whole house from the basement, but only have about 3 weeks of wood at best and no room for much more. Again, do not think power will be out for long stretchs of time, and do not think there will be a general shortage of heating oil, gas, or gasoline, as very few folks will be out driving around if TSHTF, know I won’t..
NauticalMan – at 22:16
“an Aladdin oil lamp and maybe a case of their lamp oil, which is supposed to be so pure as to give off little smoke or odor. The Aladdin allegedly gives off a couple of thousand BTU’s of heat so might be a help during cold weather at least when we are awake to watch it.”
No smoke - good. Therefore no smell? What about CO? In winter, it’s very tempting to leave windows closed. If this lamp gives 2000 BTU of heat, is there enough oxygen to go around?
Someone might be interested in these nifty LED lights http://tinyurl.com/lsvor , or these LED tap lights http://tinyurl.com/m38fj , or this dandy LED drawer/cabinet light that only turns on when the door/drawer is opened http://tinyurl.com/op4dy , or an LED reading lamp with built-in motion sensor http://tinyurl.com/m783r
Grew up burning candles and oil lamps in the sticks of the Blue Ridge Mountains. If you’re worried about carbon dioxide emissions, grow more plants inside of your house. We always grew herbs and such inside right in front of the windows. You need about 15–18 house plants to purify the air in a 2,000 square foot home. Since you can eat what you are growing, this a win-win situation.
We bought some solar lights for outside a couple of years ago. They just didn’t put out any light, and we got the highest volt. Does anybody have a suggestion for a particular kind that actually puts out enough light to see passed your nose?
Also, although they aren’t much on “broad” lighting, those small reading lights you get (like for flight reading) are handy. Those keychain lights are also handy, as are those glow stick lights. We also keep reflective tape --- again not much light but certainly help illuminate specific areas or kids/pets. Placing candles & laterns near mirrors or glass (window panes, glass fronts like china cabinet doors, etc) greatly increases illumination. There are candles that are longer burning than others, usually says on the package. I know one long burning candle is made from soy wax, I am not sure about the others. I buy candles from junk stores and garage sales at really reduced prices. I also have various types of kerosene/hurricane lamps, including 2 that were my great grandmother’s. (I love the kerosene lamps.) I have shelves on the wall, out of kid’s reach, for candles and hurricane lamps.
EnoughAlready – at 00:06 “Does anybody have a suggestion”
If you can solder, I suggest an LED product called a Luxeon Star.
http://www.lumileds.com/products/family.cfm?familyId=2
The part # is LXHL-MW1D They are about $3.50 each and put out the light of 10 regular CenLeds. I run them on 6 volts with a 22 ohm resistor in series (this runs it at half power which is plenty). One of these pointed at the ceiling light up a whole room like the light of a full moon. You can point it at a book and read with no problem. I made a battery operated table lamp for the wife and another for the kid. I am duessing I get about 40 hours out of a set of 4 d cells. If you want to run them off of 12 volt I connect 3 in series with a 25 ohm resistor. See the thread called “400 hour flashlight” for more info.
its late. Sorry about all the creative typos.
thank you, centella!
NauticalMan – at 22:16
I live up north so we use wooden snow fence in the winter, I was able to get some of this fence and put it in a circle and fill it with split wood and put a tarp over it for storage. This may help you for a storage Idea.
On the sail boat we needed a source of light down in Mexico so I bought a Oil Lamp with a manufacturer name of “Crisa” We found this lamp to put out enough light to read buy at the table as it has a wider wick than the standard sized oil lamp. I was able to buy a second Lamp back in Canada at our local hardware store for 20$ Canadian which was comparable to what they cost in Mexico.
Mosaic @ 20:50
I just wanted to explain to you what happened to your crank lights. they have degraded in performance because you have abused them. You didn’t know you were abusing them, but by not understanding what you need to do to keep one happy, you believed the package and used it and stored it incorrectly. I will explain:
Many of the crank-up lights out there use NiCd or NiMH batteries as the medium that stores the energy produced by the hand cranked dynamo. These batteries accept a charge quickly, and then can release it immediately when you ask them to.
There are three things you can do to such batteries that will cause them to degrade and lose performance. The average user of a carnk light does all three of them.
First, a NiCd or NuMH battery does not like to become fully discharged. Each time you run one to full discharge, the capacity is descreased by the chemical reactions that occur at full discharge. thus, if you use the crank light the way most people do, you crank it up a bit, run it till it goes dim (or out) then crank it back up again. This is very hard on the batteries, and constitutes the first kind of abuse you can inflict on them.
The second kind of abuse you can inflict on the batteries is to store them for a long period of time in the fully discharged condition. And oddly enough in the fully charged condition. By charging them in the fully discharged condition, you provide them time to continue the degradation that began when you fully discharged them. The longer they are stored in a fully discharged state, the more the batteries can degrade.
The third kind of abuse you inflict upon the batteries is to incompletely charge them. this is almost inherent in the system. But again, by following label directions, you only crank for a minute or so and then run them down. But by consistently charging themup to at most several percent of capacity and then fully discharging them, you create the environment for the batteries where you are doing everything possible that is wrong for them: Partial small charge, full discharge and improper storage.
Now here’s how I do it for me. The proof came this summer when we lost power overnight in a storm and I used one of my crank-up flashlights to light the main hallway of the house for 4 hours, and then cranked it up again and went to bed and then turned it off still running in the morning.
First, there is an old adage to users of NiCd batteries- the first charge determines the lifetime. While not fully literally true, the earlier you create the proper conditioning of the cell, the higher capacity and the longer it will run. So first thing I recommend is to really really really really really really crank them up in the beginning. If they tell you to do 60–100 cranks, I’ll tell you to sit there and at the proper speed (i.e. not too fast or slow) put 600–1000 cranks into the batteries without turning the light on. You can crank them up more if you wish in a second session. You are trying to establish a good forming of the internal chemistry of the battery.
if you buy rechargeable appliances, the instructions are usually to charge them much longer the first time than for the normal operating instructions. Same principal. the better you can form the batteries, the better they will work for you, from this point forward.
Once you have done the initial conditioning charge, run the device and see how long it runs on what you put in untilit starts to dim. DO NOT LET IT RUN ALL THE WAY DOWN. In fact, never run the batteries all the way down if you can avoid doing so. it really shortens their usefull life.
Now crank them up for 1–1/2 to 2 times the amount you did the first time. then run the device again. If it runs correspondingly longer, then you haven’t yet hit the full capacity of the batteries and they can stand a whole bunch more cranking up.
(By the way, there is a cheater’s method I use onsome of my crank-ups. Some of them can be plugged into a wall cube, and I actually wall charge them to full to keep from cranking my arms off. This is the best way, if the device is so equipped).
Once you have done the initial conditioning, then you now know how long the device will actually work for you on each cranking up. Try to stay inside of that between crankings. NEVER let it run all the way to off, it just kills the batteries.
Finally, never put the device away ‘empty’ always crank it all the way up to put it away.
then, every month (I always just use the first as my key), take it out and run it about half down, then crank it all the way back up and put it away again. Don’t just put it away for a year and expect to find usable batteries when you need them.
Sorry the flashlight maker didn’t tell you all of tis. but if they did, most folks wouldn’t do it anyway, and the rest would probably not bother buying it. it’s much better for them to say on the label ONE MINUTE OF CRANKING GIVES YOU TEN MINUTES OF LIGHT
So, I have now taught you why your crank lights don’t work so good no more.
The good news is you may be able to recover some of the capacity that the batteries had previously by cranking them up a whole bunch with everything off. Again, don’t discharge to fully dep;eted. Several cycles of this may bring back a substantial portion of their capacity.
if not, you have learned an expensive lesson. it isn’t the light that was bad, just the way you treated it.
Eccles — THANK YOU For these directions!
They actually are exactly the same as the ones that came with my radio.
Except someone had obviously translated mine through toggletext a few times and back.
Average Concerned Mom - I’m really surprised. The crank-ups that I’ve gotten usually just say crank, enjoy.
I imagine this initial super crank would be applicable to the crank radios too? I hope I can recoup its life with a crankathon.
LEG - Which radio do you have? I have a very nice Radio Shack unit that uses a plug-in NiCd pack that is also used in some cordless phones. Even if I fry the Batts, then I could go out and just get a replacement module.
The basic idea is to try to charge the batts up, so try cranking them up more than usual and see if that doesn’t recover some of their life.
The radio is a Grundig FR 200 - sw, am, fm and light. I just looked at the battery and it can be replaced if all else fails, and it has a dc outlet but I have no plugin thing for it (would rather have it battery op’d anyway). I bought a slinky (and YES threaded a string through it) and will drop it out the second story window at my sister’s this week to see if it helps the sw reception. I cranked it up just now big time and it has the strongest signal I’ve ever gotten and the light is super bright, so I may be in luck. Thanks so much for the tutorial ref the crank flashlights. I just ordered a bunch and will attach your words to each package when distributed.
LEG - Good to hear that things are working for you. the “slinky” antenna is an old, old trick for a portable limited space antenna. Also, the coil shape of the slinky creates an electronic effect which makes it operate as though it were a much longer antenna than it physically is.
Anyhow, good luck with the crank lights. I just checked the sheet that came with my most recent purchase a “Weather Channel” crank-up (made by Vector). It has the BEST consumer grade weather radio I have come across in a cheap unit in a long time. This is balanced by a cr*ppy AM and so-so Fm radio. But the light is a 5 LED ‘Blinder’ The sheet just says Crank, rinse, repeat.
There will be alot of unhappy buyers in a few months. Unless they do it the right way.
Eccles — sorry, my instructions came with a rechargeable battery radio (not crank). But they were the same as what you were saying — initially charge it a long time, never store it when uncharged, charge it every 2 months. Needless to say, I ignored every instruction except the first one and skimped timewise on that, because the text was not easy to read, I was distracted, it was too discouraging, etc., etc., etc. Just as you said — if you actually told people all that, they wouldn’t buy it or just give up.
But now that I have read what you have written, it gives me more context for WHY I have to do these things. Plus you are just funny to read, so I read it all the way through! It should be required text with every rechargeable battery intended for emergency purposes. It should also be posted on the WIki side — is there a section called WAKE UP THIS MEANS YOU? (-:
Now I have to see if I can salvage this radio. Haven’t charged it for a year. )-:
I’ve got three plans for light, myself:
1. Battery operated flashlights with solar battery chargers for things like nighttime bathroom runs and other reasons for moving around in the dark at night.
2. For things which need LOTS of light at night — for example, delivering baby goats that are trying to be born upside down, backwards, and sideways all at once (I have livestock) or fixing equipment or storm damage or other outside middle-of-the-night chores you can’t beat a good propane lantern or three. Note that this requires storing propane cannisters AND mantles. Not a renewable resource but one you most likely won’t use much. Propane lanterns give off a ton of heat and attract large numbers of insects so they’re not good for using in the house.
A renewable alternative to this would be some solar panels, 12 volt batteries, and electric lights hooked up to the batteries. But that’s much more expensive. (If you’re going to be running a generator, you can also charge the 12 volt batteries with the gennie.)
3. For spotlighting trouble — some of those big handleheld one or two million candlepower torches. Rechargeable using generator or intermittent power and they hold a charge for a few weeks. “Trouble” in my area is mostly of the stray dog variety, going after my animals, but I imagine they’d be good at spotting human trouble as well. The light carries a LONG way.
One more thing — I live in the country and I’m fairly used to the power going out with pretty much every storm. When the power goes out, you go to bed. *shrug* In a situation where the power’s going out for long, extended periods of time — just go to bed. It’s safer not to stumble around a house in the dark and there’s not much you can do by flashlight without quite a bit of eyestrain. Lanterns and lamps give off heat. Generators are expensive and use lots of fuel … I just go to bed.
Oh, if you feel the need for nightlights those solar-powered garden path lights work well. I have a friend living off the grid who uses them. You just bring them inside at night. They work, but they don’t give off a huge amount of light. Personally I’m not going to bother, just use flashlights and solar battery chargers.
ANNON-YYX
Thanks for your concern, but do have CO detector in my house, with battery back up, and given the fact that my old woodstove ran for years without depleting the oxygen in the house leads me to believe that an Aladdin will not seriously do so, given that like most older homes it it is not airtight!
NauticalMan:
I have several Aladdins and ran them every night in winter when I lived in the Bay Area. They do give out a lot of heat. I ran three in my bedroom, which was unheated, and they warmed the room and lit it. I would use a tank of fuel about every couple of days - ran them maybe four hours in the evening.
You can buy Lamplight Farms fuel oil (Walmart) and it won’t smell, or very slightly, but they do run hot and you have to keep your eye on them - more likely to flame up. If you do, don’t turn them up to the highest light - 2/3 or so is better. Kero runs cooler but smells. Either way, crack the window an inch or two and you’ll be fine. Read the directions carefully - they are more complicated to run than single wick lamps which is why I have both. Lots of good advice available on the collector web site in the archives.
Regarding price, they do cost a lot. I got some of my parts from a fellow collector I met through the collector web site, some at thrift stores and flea markets, and some replacement parts from Ace Hardware. Keep an eye out for places getting rid of their stock, that’s how I got my first one. Summer might be a good time to look for sales. If you’re looking on the net, search for places in California and other warm weather climes - they may be having sales this time of year. On the Aladdin web site, there is a list of authorized dealers - some of these are mom and pop stores that need to sell off inventory every once in a while.
One is a store I have been to personally, Remember Yesterday (rememberyesterday.com). It is run by a very nice couple in Petaluma, CA, and on their web site they are advertising a clear Genie III on clearance for $52.00. Go to the “Clearance Sale” part of the website. The web site in general is lousy, but the owners are really nice, so call or email them if you are interested and ask them to recommend whatever is on sale. I got some exceptional deals there before.
The web site for collectors is aladdinkights.org. The manuafacturer is aladdinlamps.com. Goodpick.com sells clear Genie III lamps for $84.50 - a good starter lamp although basic looking. Jackscountrystore has some Genie II models that are discontinued for $79.00 - the difference is the Genie III has a place where you can pour the fuel in without removing the burner, the Genie II does not.
Sorry, that is aladdinknights.org - typo above.
Eccles at 01:37 “if not, you have learned an expensive lesson. it isn’t the light that was bad, just the way you treated it. “
Thank you very much for the instuctions on crank flashlights, etc, Eccles. I agree that that information should be saved someplace.
Yes, they didnt work well because of the way I treated them, but I would have really liked accurate information on the packaging to at least have had a chance of doing it correctly. I still had 2 new crank flashlights that I had never touched in the 3–4 months since I purchased them. They still lit without any cranking, so I did each of these for 600–800 each. I actually time the cranking based on average cranks/minute. All in all, I cranked 6 wind-up items twice each for a minimum 5 min each time. That is an hour of winding in about a 2 hour period.
The two lights from last fall I am returning to the store. One will not hold much of a charge even after cranking. The other seems ok, but they came in twos. If they had had adequate instructions that I had failed to heed, I would have taken responsibility, but I had no clue how to treat their product. I never had a chance. They never even mentioned to not let them totally run down (I certainly did that) much less anything else. Shocking really when you pay good money for something. I shudder to think all the wind-up flashlights and radios out there that wont work well when they are needed in an emergency. Think of all the parents that have purchased these for their children.
I also really cranked up my radio too. I had hardly used it, but also had not cranked it much initially either. I think I got that one in time.
Almost forgot this one. Have one other LED light called a PAL. Bought this one long before I ever started prepping. It uses one LED with a 9V battery and is just about the size of the battery. It has three modes, low, high, and a dim always on setting. When I first got it I though “how stupid is that”!, but turns out that you can find it easily on your nightstand and lasts forever it seems. Even using it on low I have taken it on vacation and used it 6 or seven hours a night as a nightlite and it lasts about 200? hours. Will be getting another. Very clever device and with that low power consumption they could be used as nightlights all around the home in an outage…
Sorry LA Escapee, forgot to thank you for all the info on the Aladdin, think I will go ahead and buy one. Interesting how obsolete technology seems to reach its peak just before it fades from the scene! Think sailing ships, which survived well into the 20th Century. Given the price of oil maybe they will make a comeback in some form..
NauticalMan – at 22:06
I made a light for my wife that has a few leds for use as a flash light and a separate red light that is always on to find it at night. The locator light draws 6 tenths of a milliamp and the whole thing runs on 4 AA batteries so I have to recharge the thing about 3 or 4 times a year. After the Northridge earth quake I decided to hang a flash light over one of the bed posts so I can always find a flash light in the dark. The Northridge quake rearranged our bed room so I could not find my shoes or my flashlight for quite some time.
These little deals have worked for me on every camping trip I’ve taken in the last 30 years.
NauticalMan:
Here’s another piece of advice that may sway you in favor of buying an Aladdin: buy a big tin of cookies (or popcorn if you like), and eat them. ;) Save the tin for storing your oil lamp parts, extra wicks, etc. Use the lid of the tin to place the burner on when you refuel your lamp (if it’s a Genie II), or when you’re changing wicks or cleaning. Also, go to the camping department and get a Coleman kerosene funnel - this is a necessity when refueling your lamp. Store it in the tin.
Also, I would make sure your lamp, when used, is on a glass surface, and not a tablecloth, in case of oil spills. Some older Aladdins (about 1990′s or so) have a burner issue which will sometimes make the lamp leak a slight trace of fuel oil over the sides. I believe this has been resolved in the newer lamps. I have one of the older ones, and collectors were drilling a couple of tiny holes in the base of the burner, which resolved the problem. Worked for me. The very old “B” burners work like a charm, if you ever get an opportunity to buy one. This is an issue you should read about on the aladdinknights.org web site - a lot more details there. Also, if you get a good deal on one of the Genies, you can buy a fancy glass font later that will fit the lamp - goodpick.com has some Chinese knockoffs that are very pretty and in a lot of different colors that are made to fit Aladdins. Also, you can buy the Aladdin brand fonts separately from Aladdin dealers.
I prefer glass fonts myself because you can see the fuel, but those brass and nickel ones sure are pretty. If you do get a metal lamp, get a pen flashlight to shoot down the fuel opening to check on the fuel level. I have a brass lamp I got from Remember Yesterday (at some incredible price when they were having one of their sales), and I use it with an electrical burner as a lamp. If I need to, I can put the kerosene burner back in and use it as an oil lamp.
Here’s a couple of hints for those that have never used an oil lamp (any type): when you first fill your lamp, let it sit full of fuel at least four hours for a flat-wick lamp, preferably 6–8 hours or overnight for an Aladdin, to let the fuel soak into the wick. Fill the font leaving about an inch of air between the bottom of the burner and the top of the fuel. The lamp needs air to burn. Place an oil lamp in front of a mirror for twice the light. Enjoy!
Good Morning LA Escapee
Even before I read your post I had succumbed to the lure of obsolete technology! Last night about midnight ordered an Aladdin (from Southern Lamp Supply, DBA oillampman.com) to include an extra chimney, wicks, and other misc. spare parts. Went for the Genie III, shelf type, glass. As you say, it is nice to be able to see the fuel level. Having read the instruction manual on line realize that it is not just fill and light, but the technology sounds fascinating, so should be a fun thing to use. Going along with my longstanding interest in the days of sail, went with the nautical themed shade! Will let you know how it turns out. Read somewhere that Aladdin does not recommend the Lamplighter type fuel, which I believe is actually liquid paraffin, so guess I will try their Aladdin lamp oil if I can find it. Does anyone know where you can buy it? Do not see it in local hardware stores, I am in Massachusetts, or Home Depot. Guess it will have to be online, price is on the expensive side, about five bucks a quart, but do not expect to be using it a lot hopefully. Thanks for all your info.
Some of the questions to be answered are;
All of this (and other important detail) is covered in my book here online. Free, of course, but note the password to open the document.
Hi friends, I thought the idea to use solar path lights inside the house during a power outage was just inspired! So I went to my local Blokker’s (you don’t have them in the states) and bought one for about $5, to experiment with. The idea to line it with aluminum foil for increased light is really good. Great- except that there’s no off switch!! LOL! I plan to check out other stores for SPL’s to see if they can be switched off, but… if not? How to ‘turn’ it off? Put it in a light-proof box? LOL! I’m not very technical but I can learn….man, did that crack me up! My DH thinks anyway that I go a bit overboard with prep and this really made him shake his head. Thankfully he loves and trusts me……
Just like I placed the aluminum foil around 3 sides to increase the illumination toward one direction, just place a towel over it to cut out the light. No problem there,,,,,,
bump
Ocean2 - They are not meant to be “turned off” they go on in the dark and go off when there is sufficient light to start getting a little charge. to Turn it off, just pull one of the rechargeable cells out of its socket. Works for me just fine.
Also, as I have said previously, there are some really poor ones out there. The $5 unit you got may not be indicative of the performance that other units from different manufacturers provide. I use on now nightly to ligh my front stairs, just to be cute. it provides a fair amount of light.
Melanie yesterday at 22:54
But where do you plug it in to recharge the candles?
NauticalMan:
Congratulations on your first Aladdin! Wait and see - they’re addicting!
Aladdin doesn’t recommend Lamplight Farms fuel because it burns hotter than kerosene, and is therefore more likely to “flame up.” i.e., flames shooting up the chimney. (This is much less likely with kerosene). This has happened to a few people, and I had previously gotten some advice from a collector that if it ever did happen, turn the lamp all the way down (quickly) and let it cool down. When it did happen to me, I did and it worked. Never happened again, so it’s just a fluke thing that could happen. That’s why you can’t leave an Aladdin alone for even a minute. I used to make my sister sit and watch it when I would go to the bathroom. She would do it gladly because it was the warmest room in the house (lousy heating system).
Re finding fuel - go to the Aladdin web site and look for authorized dealers in your state, including chains such as Do-It-Best. I used to order it from Ace Hardware in the Bay Area - if it’s in their catalog, the local store can order it for you and call you when it comes in. That should save you on shipping charges.
Re the expense - there is nothing wrong with burning fresh K1 kerosene in an Aladdin. That’s what they were designed to burn. It does smell, but fresh kero (or any fuel) smells less than stale fuel. Use undyed kero if you go this route, since dye in any fuel will clog up the wick. I’ve really enjoyed using my Aladdins, and I hope you do too!
The above post was me - must be cookie-cleaning day.
LA Escapee, thanks again, knew I had read that they did not recommend Lamplighter in their lanterns. Looking forward to trying mine when it arrives!
No such thing as a free lunch and no such thing as light without power being consumed -somewhere. In any case, a flourescent light puts out more light (lumens) per watt than any other electric light and probably uses less energy than an Alladin lamp.
I just ordered and received two 12VDC input compact CFLs that come in a standard light bulb screw-base so you can use existing fixtures (unconnected from the AC of course!). I hope to be able to test them some time latter this week.
pfwag-
Who did you get yours from?
pfwag – at 23:01
Fluorescent lighting is my 2nd choice after 1watt leds. Walmart has portable fluorescent lights with about a 1 foot long tube that can be run off of batteries but also has a cable to plug into the cigarette lighter socket in a car. I bought 3 a few years ago and saw them there last year. I don’t know if they till have them but I got mine for about $6 each.
eccles - shopped around for best price with lowest shipping. 23W/4000k spiral CFL bulb with a 12VDC input offered on Ebay - $12.95 each + $5 shipping They just came in and I have not tested them yet. I can’t actually measure the lumens but can measure the voltage and current. I did note that the only marking on the bulb is 12V/23W. They are all made in China.
centella - most of the WalMart stuff like that is real Chinese junk rather than just Chinese junk. Things have changed after Sam died.
You can’t just compare watts. You want Lumens/Watt. Although if you only need the very little amount of lights that a few LEDs deliver it doesn’t amke that much difference.
Here’s two links that provide real comparasions:
http://www.flashlightreviews.com/index1.html http://www.candlepowerforums.com/
More Brightness and Light can be found here.