My twin sister is 3 months pregnant and I fear she will not be able to have a hospital birth.What supplies would be needed to have on hand to deliver her baby at home….Boil the towels..hehehe..I think if everything was smooth we could handle it but I want a clear list of needed items to have on hand.
There are many books out there about midwifery..I suggest you get one and have it on hand.
See if you state or nation has a homebirth or midwives’ organization. People do have uncomplicated births at home in your area, even if you think everyone is going to the hospital probably a few aren’t. Those sites should have lists.
Ask her OB/gyn what their hospital is doing (there is that nice new Wiki page on taking to doctors and showing them links -do we have the how dangerous for women and fetuses links?) -will they have maternity services but try to not bring H5N1 in?
I need to get offline just now, but others will probably find you some links.
Keeping her and her contacts from getting infected with H5N1 would be extremely important.
Hoping we don’t have a pandemic before she’s due; we all need more time.
The La Leche League International has a lot of good breastfeeding information; wouldn’t want to be needing formula during months to a year of quarantines and disruption.
Any dr. out there? would the silver you can get at a natural store be ok for the eye drops….
Type home birth into google and you will get a lot of good reference links. Here are a couple:
Thanks Mom….
Some don’t even want the silver nitrate used at the hospital there is some ointment/drop can be used instead. If the mother is tested free of STD’s (and partner doesn’t bring any new ones home) it might not be necessary.
http://www.shands.org/health/information/article/001606.htm
Also see if you could at least get promised help over the phone if her doctor didn’t want to come out to the house for a birth, or hospital was not able to be used for births. Also Google “birth kit”.
People/professionals experienced at home birth would be very important in case of complications.
Meanwhile, I hope it is still far far off from going pandemic.
Malachi: Our personal experience here. We had 5 babies, 2 at home, one with a midwife there and one with only a calm husband. The midwife had retired right before we needed her. Husband was so calm, he took a nap and said “wake me up when you’re ready to push”. I had to yell several times to wake him up, just in time to catch the baby. The natural birth books will tell you that the creamy white substance on a newborn is very good for their skin, and so we gently cleaned off the blood etc. with a warm wash cloth, leaving some of the “cream” to rub into the skin. No peely red newborn. After sleeping a while, we thought about how she would get a birth certificate, and rode to the hospital to get some kind of paperwork. Of course they weren’t happy about the situation even though we were all well, but agreed to sign if we would let them put the silver nitrate into the baby’s eyes first, which we did. I have read of gentler natural alternatives to the silver in a home birthing book (can’t remember the name of either).
Important to have really clean old sheets you can toss away,or spend hours cleaning up. Make sure you have pads for afterwards, and of course diapers for the baby. Your own surroundings are full of your own friendly germs, and much safer than a hospital, full of strange unfriendly germs. Your sister should have good prenatal care to predict any complications. I hope she has an experienced OBGYN who doesn’t follow the fads of finding dangers in every sign. They have names for all kinds of “conditions” that they didn’t have back in our day. Our second child was born in a terrible hospital where they tried to keep me strapped to a table on my back for hours until I threatened to leave the place. Do you know what contractions in that position feel like? You don’t want to know. The natural urge to clean house should kick in before labor starts. My midwife came when I was half-way through labor and told me to keep doing my normal routine. Walk, work, eat if I’m hungry, drink if I’m thirsty. Keeping a normal rhythm of activity helped things go smoothly. I would recommend a good midwife-assisted home birth to anyone without complications. It’s much less dramatic, and you can clean up and bond with the baby right away, without interference from a host of strangers.
Another idea, which we’ve also used, is to find a birthing hospital which is only for births. No sick people, no flu. Nice midwife, comfortable surroundings.
Malachi, best of luck to your sister, and others in this situation. The best advice is to have confidence in your own natural instincts.
Every pregnant woman should be prepared for the event of a homebirth, no matter their birthing plans. Babies often come too soon to leave for the hospital, or are born in the car, or arrive before the midwife does. For those completely unprepared for this, it can be a very frightening experience. In the great majority of cases, these mothers and babies do well (can’t always say that for the fathers ;) The emergency is not that the baby is coming out- it’s when the baby won’t come out. So, if every pregnant woman has a plan for what they’d do if they couldn’t get to the hospital (other than just calling 911), it would ease a lot of the anxiety of the situation. There are many books and websites that help people prepare for homebirths. My personal favorite is www.ucbirth.com
Oh, I almost forgot the very important matter of learning the stages and how to breathe through it all. La Maze (is that how you spell it?) classes were very helpful to me. It takes away the fear when you know what to expect and practice for it. Also look up La Leche League for breastfeeding support.
Hmm… there’s a thought Lorelle (12.42). I came to this thread expecting to post links to the homebirth and unassisted birth sites, but I see that’s been done. But feeding… I’m still breastfeeding my 2yo, and felt strongly I didn’t want any formula in the house as part of my baby preparations before he was born, because if it’s there there’s a temptation to use it. But if I were prepping, and very pregnant? I suppose the question of whether to stockpile formula just in case you turn out to be one of the few women who can’t breastfeed successfully must arise. In normal times, almost all women can successfully breastfeed *if* they get proper support (most of those who give up do so because they got bad advice, of which there is a shocking amount available, even from doctors and midwives). However, for some women, that support is hands-on help to get the baby latching correctly, and that’s one of the things that won’t be available… I think I still wouldn’t stockpile formula, but it’s something to think through.
Getting to LLL meetings earlier than one might otherwise is probably a good idea. There’s no substitute for having had the opportunity to stare at someone else breastfeeding before you try it yourself! Some things like just how to get the baby to latch on are hard to describe in words. And know that many newborns feed constantly and that schedules are Evil, of course!
I’ll echo Mathematician. We had a terrible time breastfeeding, culminating in both me and the baby crying all night a week after the baby was born because it just wasn’t working, and I was tired and wasn’t thinking. My brain finally engaged and I called the breastfeeding clinic at a local hospital (*not* the one we delivered at - they were part of the problem - not a good start), went in and they gave me all sorts of tricks and devices and helped us get going. Turned out my son had a oral motor problem which only became obvious when he didn’t speak (he turned out ok in the end!).
So, my rather long-winded point is to set up the support network before the baby is born. It is very valuable.
That’s all so true. Besides instincts, we also need examples to follow. When I was growing up I never saw breastfeeding, only bottles. I may have never had the courage to try without guidance.
I couldn’t breastfeed despite my commitment to it. My milk wouldn’t let down reliably no matter what I did. I would have an angry baby at a turgid breast, and even doing everything La Leche league recommended, i.e. getting in the tub with the baby, massage, drinking some beer, and MUCH more - none of it worked. So, yeah, get some formula just in case.
This site must attract mothers of five children. Me too. My first didn’t have any patience with breastfeeding and wanted to switch as soon as he knew there was an alternative. His sister latched on and wouldn’t come off - in fact it wasn’t until my milk turned to colostrum a few days before the next baby was born that she decided enough was enough. The last three averaged about a year each.
Of course breastfeeding is best, but sometimes that is not possible. In a pandemic situation I think redundancy is wise.
You can buy generic formula at about 2/3rds the cost of name brands. I would try and have at least 4 - 6 months supply of powdered formula on hand. I don’t know if it will keep much beyond that. Also stock up on powdered milk, corn syrup, and baby vitamins with DHA & ARA and iron. Just about all baby boomers were raised on a homemade formula of whole cow’s milk, barley water, and corn syrup. Doctors rightly recommend against feeding this to a baby under one year because cows milk lacks vitamins and has too much calcium and sodium and will stress the baby’s kidneys. But if neither mom’s milk or formula are available, you should know how to make as close a substitute as possible.
Add these things to your shopping list: baby cereals: rice, oatmeal, mixed. Jars of baby food: whole single fruits and vegetables. Pediasure and pedialyte. Pediasure is an all in one liquid soy based drink that is more nutritious than formula - but it also contains more sugar and is Very expensive. Use it when baby needs to be built up again after a bout with indigestion or diarheah. Pedialyte is like baby gatorade. It restores the fluids and electrolytes the baby loses when purging. Don’t forget all the other things they like to drink - lots of bottled water and fruit juices from the baby food aisle, organic if you can.
And an occasional dad of ten.
Stock up.
flourbug is a good mom. Smart.
Timber, you and your wife must have a very busy house. We have 3 children and they keep us going! Worth it though, my kids are the best part of my life.
malachi, it’s a good idea to have a plastic sheet on the mattress under the regular sheets. Your sister could do that anytime, actually, as you never know where your water might break. Also I used a couple of large well-padded plastic-backed change-pads under my torso and the baby in my bed. This really saves alot of washing sheets from breast milk or diaper leaking- then you only have the pads and not the whole bed!. I preferred to have my little ones sleep with me, but that’s not everyone’s cup of tea. It may be necessary at some point if proper heating can’t be maintained in the home temporarily. Hope that helps!
I want to thank you all for the wonderful links and advice….I am bumping this subject as we probably have many new folks on the wiki who may also need this info…
I am also 3 months pregnant and quite a bit worried- I am worried because I had to have a medical birth last time due to severe form of pre-eclampsia called HELLp syndrome and needed medical attention for several days- not to mention I had the baby at 33 weeks- I wonder if TSHTF what resources will be set up for emergency maternity cases if that is needed again- I read in Canadian Sue’s work about what she imagined would happen and that is a very scary prospect— Not so sure what the plan is for emergency c-sections or what I would do. Any suggestions? p.s. 35% chance of me developing HELLP again.
Eastern Shore Prepper - first, my sympathy, that must be very scary. First, why do you say 35% chance of HELLP recurring? That’s higher than any estimate I found on the web. Is there some reason for your own risk being higher, or are you actually quoting the risk of *any* pregnancy complication this time round? I found (from a HELLP support organisation) that different studies suggested 5% - 27%, *and* that it tended to be less severe the next time round, even if it did recur.
What I’d do, if I were you (and I’m not, nor am I a medical professional):
- I’d remember that worried as we are, the chances of a pandemic happening in the next 6 months, i.e. while you’re still pregnant, have to be pretty low, really. It’s worth thinking about, absolutely, but it probably won’t happen.
- I’d educate myself as much as I possibly could about pregnancy and childbirth and care of the newborn, normal and abnormal, and lay in a good thick obstetrics and newborn textbook and a good midwifery textbook (e.g. Mayes). If you have to do your own diagnosis, you want to be as accurate as you can be! Absolutely nothing worse than going to hospital at great risk and then finding you have indigestion :-)
- I’d have basic diagnostic tools like a good BP monitor and urine dipsticks (easily available online) at home, for the same reason (and in case I ended up with remote care by telephone from a midwife, or whatever)
- I would try to have the phone numbers of several midwives, who could advise me over the phone or if necessary come to my house and wear appropriate protective gear. This would still be a risk, both to the midwife and to you, but might well be a good alternative to you going to a hospital, if staying home alone stopped being an option to you.
- I’d make sure I had a plan about how going to hospital would work, in the context of isolation! How would you get there, who would go with you, what would happen to your daughter, if there are only 2 adults in your household, what about reuniting afterwards? (This one applies even in the case of a relatively mild pandemic, since you’ll be balancing your daughter’s need not to be separated from you for too long and the need not to expose a newborn to flu.)
- If a pandemic were serious (like 1918 or worse) I would not go to a hospital, even if I thought I was dying, unless I was pretty sure they were open and equipped to do c/s *and* that that was the only thing that would save my life. For almost anything else, you’re as well to be at home, given the infection risk of going to a hospital, and given the chance that the hospital is not in fact ready to do emergency c/s.
- I see that the above is written in terms of *my* life, not the baby’s. I think, given another child already around who needed me, that’d really be what I meant. In a serious pandemic situation, where going to hospital would almost certainly expose me and my already-ill newborn to a highly virulent flu, I’d see the chance of saving the baby as being too low to justify the risk of leaving my existing child motherless. Horrible, I know.
- As I understand it, the most important thing with HELLP is delivery, not specifically c/s, at least from the point of view of saving the mother. So I’d make sure I was aware of, and equipped for, home induction if it became really necessary. You or your partner can do cervical sweeps; sex helps; repeated doses of castor oil can often get labour started. (Can help you find details, but google will probably do it.) Sometimes nothing works, but you can try (but only in the case of a medical emergency, of course - all these methods have risks which no sane person would want to run during a pandemic unless the alternative were worse).
Eastern Shore Prepper: I dittoo above comment. You should not be worrying. Stress is not good for you or the baby and this pandemic may not be here for years or not at all.
I heard that they will segregate hospitals so that normal emergencies can still be treated, and flu victims will be off in another area quarantined. You and your baby will receive the care that you need. Most of us would agree that elective surgeries and treatments will most likely suffer - and for those affected it will be very difficult. But emergencies, especially those dealing with a mother and a baby, will still be a priority and treated as such.
Having said this, you might want to speak with your doctor to get their assurances. Get their cell phone number and their home phone number. Get their e-mail address. Check with the hospital where you will deliver the baby. If you don’t like their response or they can’t assure you, then go somewhere where they can.
Thanks for the comments. :) The 35% chance of developing HELLP again is because I have FVL also which predisposes me to clotting problems- since HELLP is the purported end result of microscopic clotting I have a higher chance of it— I am medicated on blood thinners (injections 2/day), but I was medicated on blood thinners last time also and still developed HELLP—
Ideally, if this were to become pandemic, I would be able to have a vbac at home with the help of my RN sister in law. I am taking full control of my health as much as I can- I do have the urine sticks and a bp machine which i currently check weekly— as my pregnancy progresses I will check more frequently.
I wish there were a way to check my platelet counts at home— I have a low level microscope and could probably do a blood smear, but I don’t know that any platelet counts I did would be very valid—
I like the idea of researching inducing labor at home if I start to develop HELLP again in case of emergency— last time, I started developing it at 31.5 weeks and didn’t have the c-section until 33 weeks— steroid shots bought be several days—
Anyway, I just wanted to thank you for your comments. I am not stressing too much about it, just trying to cover all my bases— praying that this never becomes a pandemic, and if it does that it happens after next October. Now if I could just find a place to stock all the extra diapers! :)
There is a book called Spiritual Midwifery it is written by Ina May Gaskin, She is a pioneer in midwifery. This book i would highly recommend. She is fantastic!! All the best.
Old thread closed to speed Forum access
Check dates
Reopen and bump by request.
Possibility of pregnancy here and very nervous now of the implications it might have. Three out of my four children were C-Sections….I know that I will have to have another C-section….Should TSHTF I’m terrified to even think of that situation. During a pandemic do you think the hospitals will deliver by C-Section? And for the record….the hospital is the last place I would want to have a baby at that time….
Houston, you might want to read the scenario elsewhere on Fluwiki by CanadaSue. She is an RN. She writes of what a pandemic might look like in her community — one aspect is that pregnant ladies are isolated together at a separate facility from the main hospital and attention given to them to calm anxieties. That sounds like a very practical, prudent way to manage a group that is bound to exist in any major event. (When we lived in the Pacific, all third trimester preggers ladies reported to the hospital when a typhoon was on the way. That way everyone was in a safe place and wasn’t trying to get to the doc in the middle of the storm).
I understand that a baby’s brain development is affected by the mother’s anxiety levels. A lot of anxiety (such as a mom in a war zone) develops the more primitive/warrior part of the brain while a calm environment is supposed to cause development in the intellectual/higher thinking portions of the baby’s brain. If you suspect you are pregnant, you may want to limit your time with this bird flu craziness (check in for the news and then go listen to Mozart!) — or take other, calming, actions.
A very real possibility is that a pandemic will be brutally harsh in the poorest countries of the world but much less so in modern countries with excellent health care. Houston has some of the best clinics and doctors in the world, so you’ll have some pretty sharp cookies doing care planning. Best of luck
Canada Sue’s novella is on the link and should be required reading (IMHO). It is a great piece of work. It is not short and took me several days to read.
Olymom,
Houston is the best place to be as far as anything medical goes:)….but since my DH and I realized we might be having a #5 I have really been very very very very concerned about this BF thing hitting in the Fall….It’s not that I wouldnt be happy to be pregnant (always wanted 6 kids)…I’m just scared to death of the pandemic hitting and me going into labor with complications…..
You were right on the nail about limiting my time with all of this BF craziness….I have stopped watching the news as of 2 or 3 nights ago. Couldnt deal with seeing the little children in the Middle East going through what they are going through…and I will also be limiting my time here….:) Smile!!
Thank you for the advice.
But anyway, I do wonder what kind of preparing methods are underway for things of this nature during a pandemic in Houston…I think I will call the Womans Hospital of Texas…thats where I had my last baby 2 years ago….maybe they can tell me something I want to hear:)
H6P—
I don’t know about Houston, but here in AZ, there has been a fair amount of discussion about what to do for expecting moms in any catastrophic situation. We apparently have a higher than normal number of pregnant moms here (possibly related to our proximity to Mexico and the flow of undocumented workers). My hospital is planning on basic triage in the parking lot, with complicated moms to be admitted to the maternity and orthopaedic floors if necessary. Other floors (telemetry, medical/surgical and ICU/cardiac care) are reserved for high maintenance patients. I think that is the administrators’ code for respiratory, intubation and cardiac patients.
That is what I know from the delivery side; I have heard nothingabout preparations for formula, diapers, and post partum support for moms, sick or well. I will keep looking, though.
Jefiner
The other thing is will MY doctor be able to do the ccection….or will they get some joe blo to do it? (and by that I mean someone I dont know) I know we cant answer those types of questions now….I will have to ask my OB….
A basic triage….that scares me!!!! They would do a c=cectin there? OMGoodness!!!!
As far as preps…formula, diapers I will make sure I have at least 1 year. As soon as I find out I will be celebrateing by buying diapers:)
No, C sections will be done in a surgical suite—but that might be in a tent. And depending on the circumstances (for example if you deliver in the middle of a BF pandemic) a resident or a nurse practitioner might be doing it for you. As the victim of a C section myself, it got to the point that I didn’t care who did it, just get this d*mn thing over with and give me back my son!
Nurse practitioner????? They know how to do C sections? All of mine but one was schedualed and the second son was born natural…..he came early and fast…..45 minutes!!! But I’m with you on getting it over with!!! LOL
I hope it doesnt come to this…..sigh
This raises another question I want to have another child but am now a little worried about doing it at this point in time but i dont want to put it off forever
My sister had her baby yesterday.Baby and mother are fine…I want to bring this up because although my original post does not come off as panic filled I kind of was at the time.I think it could be of some help to think about the fact that while some times it feels like this panflu could bust out anyday,We may still have years,we just don’t know.(A quote I attribute to Melanie)
Nurse practitioners do not do C Sections. However, in an emergency situation where the life of the mother and child are at risk, who is to say what might happen? NPs do a lot of prep pre and post surgical work. My ex is a nurse anesthetist—
Question on NOT getting preg:
If PanFlu hits hard my DW and I will probably end up taking in a few kid/teens that are orphaned. Though we have no kids (other than our dogs LOL) both she and I have taught K-12 and above and would like to make life less traumatic for those that we could save. Question is, other than only taking in ALL males or ALL females, how do we prevent “little ones” popping up? I don’t think our PCP will give us scripts for birth control pills, especially at our age. Condoms work - if they remember them when they are out behind the barn or out at the pond.
Birthing puppies I’ve done. Birthing kittens I’ve done. But, even though I purchased the “Where there is no Dr” just in case, I don’t feel NEARLY adequate to handle this, especially if it is a young teen and we are SIP.
Any advice (other than a high barb wire fence between the boys and girls sections)?
Hey Strider, If people are ordered to SIP, there will definitely be a baby boom 9 months later! Not just with teens! People are going to be bored and unless they have prepped a lot, the bc is going to run out… Only ideas I have would be to teach the girls about natural family planning, which is more effective than nothing— and stock up on condoms now… Where I work we had the three for free program through the state, but they actually closed it down effective June 30th… So, we have 2 boxes of 1000 condoms left— once they are gone, they are gone— such a good little program… probaly prevented untold std’s, HIV transmissions and unwanted pregnancies… and it cost so little… anyway, you might want to go by your health department and see if they have any free condoms— might be able to stock up a few there..
Congrats to Auntie Malachi! Now we can move from worrying about the birth to worrying about the infant:) I write that because I was such an anxious mess in the last weeks of pregnancy. I kept thinking “I will be SO glad when this kid comes because then I can STOP WORRYING.” Little did I know. . .
ESP, Hi, thanks for the tip on condoms from the health dept. I don’t know which will embarrass me more at age 52, asking for condoms at the health dept, or explaining to my DW of 29 yrs “Why do you have a box of condoms in the prep room?” :)
Eastern Shore Prepper – at 11:19 … we have 2 boxes of 1000 condoms left
Now, that is some serious prepping.
Dennis in Colorado – at 14:32 --- Do the math. Say, 2000 condoms, divided by perhaps, 3 boys. That’s 665 condoms per boy. There are 365 days (nights) in a year. Roughly 1 year and 10 months worth of condoms at one a night…..hmmmmm. Methinks it’s time to start putting a list of possible chores together for these kids… ;-)
Sew them in their long johns…..lol…Thanks for the congrats olymom
This is the weirdest thing I’ve ever heard of. Non-parents contemplating taking in teenagers and planning to stockpile CONDOMS for them? And you have been a teacher?! Bizarre. How about taking them to church and teaching them some values instead?
Let me add before someone says something that yes I know pandemic=no churches open (probably). However, some religious/ethical training of some sort would be called for in such a situation — instead of you playing the condom fairy. I think you should stockpile bibles and religious study material for these hypothetical kids instead of condoms. But I guess you would want to be their “friend” instead of being a downer authority figure, right?
anon- your comments are getting a bit harsh don’t you think? I understand your point of view, but teens will be teens no matter what we tell them. Some make good choices, others not so good. I went to a catholic HS and beleive me there were just as many having sex there as at public school - in a “good town” with plenty of other church-going people. I’d rather seen teens be prepared just like adults than see more unwanted pg’s.
anonymous – at 05:34 Were you ever a teenager? With rageing hormones and too much time on your hands?
Teenagers are the next decades adults, the ones we older people will be relying on to get/keep things moving. I’d rather take a few of them in, teach them as much as I can (INCLUDING morals and values) and have them contribute to society than have them starving, suffering, and forming wolf packs scrounging for food.
During 1918 flu most pregnancies ended in death for both mother and child. If condoms save their lives, it would be worth it.
Yes, I was a teenager and I never too much time on my hands. I always had housework or yardwork or homework to do. And even if I had some free time here and there, if I EVER had had occasion to need to use a condom I knew my parents would likely have buried me UNDER the house — as they should have — so I never got involved with any of that and I am not even that old. In case you weren’t aware of it, there are large swaths of the teenage population that are not engaging in sex.
I hate the thought that if I had a teenager who was orphaned during a pandemic, some well-meaning teacher would take her in — along with a bunch of teenage boys — and start dispensing condoms. That is just disturbing.
anonymous – at 10:32
I agree that we disagree. Lets drop it and move on.
anonymous 10:32, I am friends with a woman who was very concerned for her daughter. She belonged to a church, and decided to homeschool her from the beginning. I find nothing wrong with homeschooling itself, but this woman was so determined that her daughter remain chaste that she only allowed her to socialize with other kids in their congregation. She never let her daughter out of her sight for a moment. She attended all the dance classes, and all the social events. She took the daughter to church regularly and participated in a weekly bible discussion group aimed at keeping teens safe and on the path of righteousness. Imagine her horror when the daughter came to her to tell her she may be pregnant! Turned out she had a ‘boyfriend’ at their church group, and she and the boyfriend had been having sex in the church bathroom, while other kids kept an eye out for grown-ups! She was 13. Now THAT is just disturbing!
disturbing but strangely poetic
just as… if there’s a way, the virus will find it
name withheld – at 15:42
A boyfriend at age 13? Apparently she did let the girl out of her sight. I wasn’t even allowed on a date until age 16.
This kid obviously did not have any respect for God or her mother. If I had ever dreamed of behaving like that I would have been sent off to live with the wolves. Sounds like there was a more widespread lack of morality and respect at that congregation (at least among the young). I sure hope the mother ripped that girl’s head off (figuratively) and put it back on straight.
Sounds like the young people of that congregation are sick of parents not trusting them and breathing down their necks 24/7 so they grouped together to fight back in any way they could. A 13 year-old having sex with her boyfriend in the church bathroom while other kids kept watch for the grown-ups is only a symptom of a much bigger congregation wide problem. So many ultra religious parents are so untrusting of the evils in our “society” they forget to trust their children enough to give them a healthy amount of breathing space that any kid needs, then they are shocked when their kids rebel in some way (sex in the bathroom during a dance is certainly rebellion). What these parents are trying to avoid for their families they often unwittingly create in their very own homes. Kids need for their parents to trust them even if the parents do not trust anyone else. That girl’s parents have no right to be shocked in my opinion. Their own mistrust is parlty responsible for what happened.
Those kids had more breathing room than they could be trusted with apparently. That is the oldest excuse in the book — “You didn’t trust me anyway so I figured I’d do whatever I wanted.” Uh uh. Right. I’ve been a teenager. I’ve been a mother. There’s a not so old saying —trust but verify. Back in the day, civilized society required chaperones on dates. I think society has gone too far, thinking that 13 year old girls can simply be turned loose with 13 year old boys. Even the nicest kids have to be giving constant “help” to make the right choices.
given not giving
It is not an excuse. It is simply the nature of teenagers. I am a mother. I have three adult children. They often had far more rope than their friends and were in far less trouble than nearly all of their friends. Trust but verify is right. But let’s face facts it takes very little time to complete the sex act. Even at a dance, unless they parked a parent in there the whole time anyone could have managed enough sex for pregnancy to occur. And I have seen enough very religious parents smother their kids to the point that even I would have rebelled if I were them and I was about the biggest goody-two-shoes as a teen that ever existed. I was also busy, busy, busy, with sports, drama club, Rainbow girls, Girl Scouts, chores, school work, and a job (same for my own kids). I could still have found loads of time for trouble if I had wanted to, I just chose not to in part because I didn’t want to betray my parents trust(same for my own kids). I NEVER got into any kind of trouble because my parents would have been disappointed in me and I would have been grounded until I was 30, (if my dad let me live). Kids need trust, and parents who mistrust everyone including their own kids are asking for trouble. I have seen enough to know.
Dennis in Colorado- We have the “three for free program” at my worksite, well at least till the program was disbanded! That’s what I meant when I said we have two boxes of 1000 condoms left! :) Not ‘we’ personally. ;)
Since this is a pregnancy forum—
8 months pregnant here- anyone else pregnant and trying to prep for an infant (and toddler in our case)?
Germany is far more progressive in providing birth control and birth control information to its young people and there is actually a LOWER teen pregnancy rate than in the US.
If I were housing a bunch of pandemic-shocked teens, the LAST thing I would want would be the complication of an unplanned pregnancy for one of them. I think I’d lecture until their eyes rolled up and also put condoms in the bathroom closet. I’d pray to God that one or the other would do the job. One of the characteristics of teen brains is that the area of the brain that forsees consequences is not completely developed until the early twenties. I’d give that brain biology whatever support I thought would help. Like ball skills and social skills, some kids are faster than others in developing “forseeing consequences.”
The emphasis on being “chaste” or “pure” can backfire. I’ve known girls who were in complete denial that what they were doing was really “sex” I think I’d rather emphasize how important it is to me that the kid is “smart” or “competent” than “100% pure”
yes. Good idea get topic back to caring for and prepping for possible pregnant mom and babe. Anon, you are coming across at least to me as very judgemental of well meaning people who Care to take in kids without parents. You can’t control how those kids were raised…I was chaste as a teen due to my upbringing and temperment, but have no judgement of others. By the way anon, not everyone believes in the bible or YOUR bible,as a solution to everything…there are people of Other religions besides Christianity on this forum. Darn, didn’t bite my tongue follow my own advice. Find anon’s judgement of others and superiority inflamming.
I have prepped for a friend who is trying to get pregnant now, including Where there is no doc so someone around knows what to do. She had thank goodness had easy pregnancies and births and has little fear around it thank goodness. They won[‘t prep for anything at all so I did. I mentioned lightly it wasn’t best idea to be pregnant during pandemic, but didnt’want to freak her out.
Maybe it is just best to plan not to be in last phase of pregnancy during highest flu time…feb-april? Those things can’t always be controlled tho.
Good idea to get topic back to caring for prepping for pregnant moms, but not before defending myself….
Excuse me but where did I say you have to be Christian? The overwheming majority of people in the US are Christian, but still when I mentioned that the Bible and religious teaching was in order I really meant whatever major religion you want to go with. There is no MAJOR religion in the world that advocates promiscuity and premarital sex — not one.
I can be judgmental if I want to be. By that I mean I can recognize wrong behavior and say something about it. The Bible never said that we are supposed to ignore and accept (let alone advocate) inappropriate behavior. It said not to cast stones at people and trust me I never once have advocated stoning people who are misbehaving. But thousands of years of civilization has found that unmarried people having sex is no good for society. You can disagree with that and with God (of all major religions) and think that the relatively new if it feels good, do it mentality makes more sense. You are free to raise your kids to be tramps if you want to. However, I don’t have to like it. I especially didn’t like the suggestion that someone on here could raise someone else’s kid as a tramp.
Malachi - Congratulations on the new addition!
On the subject of pregnancy (she says as she takes her pill) I’ve posted about this before. It’s very worrying all of the implecations of a pregnancy or a new born during a pandemic. When I posted, my two year old was going thrugh a “phase” and I was looking for an excuse to NOT get pregnant. But the fact are these.
- Should you be pregnant during a pandemic, birth at home may be the only way. This, believe it or not is no big deal. Here in the UK every woman is given the choice to give birth at home with the help of a mid wife. Most of us “experienced” mums go for home birth. Frankly, as long as I have gas and air, I can give birth practically anywhere. There is something very warm and fuzzy about bringing a baby into the world in your own home with the entire family around. My sister in law was born at home. My big issue would be breast feading as I just dont produce milk. I’ve done EVERYTHING including chanting naked under a full moon ;) and nothing.
On the issue of teen agers, my husband, having two teen girls, put’s it best. You teach them to love, value and respect themselves and show them the way. Most importantly they need to know that if they make a mistake, you will be there for them. Teach them well , give them space and be there to pick up the pieces. So far so good with now 8 teenagers in the family. No trouble and all at University. Still, no experience cause mine are still little.
What I have not seen to date is a discussion on how to limit or prevent pregnancies during a pandemic. Other disasters such as extended power outages, ice storms and last year’s hurricanes have all produced bumper crops of new bornes nine months later. In a pandemic, the second or third wave could be hitting just as the maternity wards are filling up with expectant mothers and their babies. This would all happen at a time when the medical system is overtasked, under-manned and exhausted from previous pandemic-related activities. A hospital might be the last place you would want to send an expectant mother during a pandemic.
Although it might be difficult to accomplish, some amount of public education and caution regarding birth control durign a pandemic is probably a good idea.
I forgot to post this earlier….About a week after my sister gave birth she came down with a fever and body aches.Once she ruled out bird flu ;) she went to her doctor and he said she had “Milk fever” He said it was normal that her body would react like that when she is just starting to nurse and the milk was fully “in”He told her to drink extra water and it would pass in a few days which it did. Hadn’t heard it mentioned before so I thought it might be useful to some.
(Also possibly useful is the info in the frequently-asked breastfeeding questions on the LLL site)
http://www.lalecheleague.org/FAQ/FAQMain.html#early
(and Congrats to Malachi’s sister!)
Another reason to consider stocking baby formula, etc: It’s possible that a mother can become incapacitated or even die, while the baby lives and still needs to eat. This is morbid, but stranger things have happened, and it would be a shame for whoever is left to care for the baby to have nothing to feed it.
H6P - are you pregnant? I am so sorry I missed out on this thread- please email me, I may be of help to you.
When a disaster strikes, it is normal for folks to comfort one another. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn of some “oops” babies even among savvy, aging, long married couples. These questions and challenges of managing a pregnancy may apply to a lot more than teenagers if TSHTF.
Maybe having prenatal vitamins should go on the list . . .
Crazy Amer Lady, you are very lucky to have been able to give birth at home. I have pregnancy complications and that wasn’t an option for me. So I would suggest along with a good midwifery/childbirth book, also get one on possible complications. You just never know.
I also breastfed my children, but I always had formula on hand, just in case, when the kids were weaned, or too old for formula, it was donated to a food bank.
Pregnant bird flu patient may add to information on Tamiflu
2006/8/27 SINGAPORE, Bloomberg
A pregnant woman in Indonesia who shows symptoms of bird flu agreed to take Tamiflu. The medicine, recommended by the World Health Organization to treat the lethal virus, may be a risk to her unborn fetus, a doctor said. The 35-year-old woman, two months pregnant, began a course of Roche Holding AG’s antiviral to treat an infection possibly caused by the H5N1 avian influenza strain, said Luhur Soeroso, a doctor at the Adam Malik Hospital in Medan on Sumatra island.
Clinicians have had little experience treating H5N1 in pregnant women, and if the woman has the disease, her case may provide needed information. There is no adequate data on the use of Tamiflu, known scientifically as oseltamivir, in pregnant women, according to the WHO. Animal studies don’t indicate direct or indirect harmful effects on pregnancy or fetal development, the health agency said in March.
“Our priority is to save her life,” Soeroso said. The woman is aware of the unknown risks on her fetus caused by oseltamivir and by the antibiotics she is also taking, he said.
We had one homebirth here-but I had a doctor present. put lots of newspaper on the bed under the sheets , so the mattress does not get ruined by the fluid.-Keep active until the urge to push comes, the rest should be happening all by itself. I breast fed three children. My second one was already 2 and still nursing at night (pacifier:-), and there was no problem. -I think that new moms just get nervous when it comes to breast feeding, because they worry so much about how much milk the baby is getting and that worrying interferes with the let down reflex.-just relax and nature should take it’s cause.
Duh-meant to say that nature should take it’s “course” :-)
its course, of course.;)
For those who are expecting and planning on nursing, also remember to store nursing pads, Lansinoh/lanolin, hot/cold packs, extra prenatal vitamins, and a good breast-feeding book (I love Kathleen Huggins’ Nursing Mother’s Companion ).
You might also consider keeping fenugreek and/or brewer’s yeast on hand to help stimulate milk production (I prefer feungreek, but it would not be a good choice if you have peanut allergies in the family). There are also vitamin supplements available now for nursing moms that have DHA that will go through the milk to the baby.
And **very important** is to make sure you store extra water for the nursing mom!
That being said, I also have extra formula & bottles here. Like pine ridge, I will donate it if it becomes irrelevant (though I am also not pushing my youngest to wean, just in case…). And there are, sadly, moms who will not be able to nurse no matter how much they want to and should be prepared (this seems to tie especially to moms with PCOS). And, even more sadly, there may well be moms who don’t make it through a pandemic. Best to be prepared.
(LOL, dh was relieved to have missed (barely) the home birth, since the midwife with the first two dd’s told me I am not a candidate due to complications…dd#3 arrived in 45 min and dd#4 arrived in 30 minutes. The OB missed both and, amazingly, even though the last two girls were 3–1/2 yrs apart, both were delivered by the same OB nurse. lol!)
I read somewhere that Tamiflu isn’t recommended for use by pregnant women, but perhaps since Relenza isn’t absorbed into the body but mostly stays in the lungs maybe it would be better in pregnancy as not much would get to the baby.
Closed for length and continued here
Last relevant post copied to new thread