From Flu Wiki 2

Forum: One Way Shortwave AMFM Radios

09 May 2006

ricewiki – at 14:18

Alright, this specializes some of the discussion in the Communication thread to focus solely on ONE-WAY radios for the average person.

What radio did you buy? Which is the best brand? Model? What features does yours have?

Not talking about walkie-talkies here, just the good ol’ fashioned receivers.

Some questions:

DennisCat 14:26

I like the crank radios-

check out: Grundig Crank Radio You can get SW,FM, AM and you don’t have to worry about the sun.

SW is a shorter wavelenght than FM and longer than AM. It “goes” long distances (you can get other countries) because it “skips” around in the atmosphere.

ricewiki – at 14:34

Where did everyone buy their radio from?

ricewiki – at 14:35

Dennis C

Checking out the Grundig… wonder how long it lasts. Only has one year warranty. Do you have any problems/ misgivings with yours?

crfullmoon – at 14:40

I have a solar/crank radio I’ve had for about 6 years now (and it is great while you’re out in the garden) looks like there’s a lot of choices out there now.

http://tinyurl.com/hnrbc Eton FR300 Emergency Crank Radio

http://www.ambientweather.com/inwobadyands.html Info-Mate World Band Dynamo and Solar Radio

Houghton – at 14:41

We just bought a new one from Radio Shack. It is a small Grundig (about $100). We have an older one we have had for about 12 years and we still get just about every corner of the planet loud and clear (it was about $550 US).

ricewiki – at 14:43

I wonder if the hand-crank is really necessary. It depends on the internal NiMH rechargeable battery, but at some point won’t this internal battery wear out, too?

I like the Grundig brand… what other stores in North American carry it? Best Buy only has 5 of them…

DennisCat 14:46

lasts… about 2 min. on each crank. (about 50 turns). I have had no problem with it - but I don’t use it much - it is just in reserve. You can use batteries in it if you want and they have solar battery chargers. That way you can have the best of both worlds if you want - crank, use batteries if you have them/ have them charged. I just had this idea that if I really wanted to listen to the radio for information at night; I didn’t want the batteries to go just as they said- “and food will be delivered…..static/ goes dead”

crfullmoon – at 14:47

Can crank when the Sun don’t shine…

S Arlington – at 14:47

I have the “Freeplay Summit.” It is very sturdy, pretty compact and apparently uses a better mechanism to convert kinetic energy to electical power than the Grundig. The radio has solar cells although I hear it takes a long time to charge; I haven’t used solar for power. After my initial tests, mine has been sitting in one of my ammo cans.

Here’s the manufacturer’s site: http://www.freeplayenergy.com/index.php?section=products&subsection=summit

I don’t remeber where I purchased mine, but it was online.

NIdahoat 14:48

I have two Radio.

1. Baygen Crank with shortwave 2. Radio Shack portable scanner

With these two I can recieve anything. I am also upgrading my CB communication center in my home and thinking about a Ham radio station.

DennisCat 14:50

I got mine via a mail order store (herrington- not many “brick and mortar stores here”) but I am told that Circuit City sells them. $40–50 US$ should be about right

ricewiki – at 14:55

The Freeplay brand sounds amazing, but I can’t find any shortwave radios with them.

http://www.freeplayenergy.com

goosebumps – at 14:56

I’ve been considering Freeplay Plus. Can anyone comment on it’s reliabilty and performance, please. It’s available on several emergency product websites such as http://www.ccrane.com/

S Arlington – at 14:57

The Freeplay Summit is a SW radio — that’s one reason I purchased it!

NIdahoat 14:57

I have the origanal one from 1999. I still works great. I have had not a single problem.

DennisCat 14:57

The real question for me is: if the power is out for week(s),how many radio stations can stay on the air? I think that there will always be a SW somewhere in the world running but I wouldn’t want to count on hearing FM (line of sight limited) or local AM stations. Perhaps the military will keep a few select long distant “clear channels” AM’s going. I would at least hope so.

ricewiki – at 14:58

What bands are “WB” and “MW”???

-weatherband and ??

NIdahoat 14:59

I expect they would use the national weather service relay stations. They are everywhere, even high up in the mountains.

ricewiki – at 15:00

What is “LW”??

DennisCat 15:00

OH, yes, for you WAY UP (artic circle north, like Iceland) north, you might want to try to get something with longwave (LW) bands. But I would think that your radio store would know about that for you.

BroncoBillat 15:01

Medium Wave — In most of the world, mediumwave serves as the most common band for broadcasting

ricewiki – at 15:02

Does the Freeplay Summit run on batteries alone, too?

ricewiki – at 15:03

Hmm, so what’s the difference between

since I see some radios with some of these but not others…. I thought SW was best since goes all over world? How is MW the most common band? In what sense?

ricewiki – at 15:05

Oh yeah…. and what is satellite radio? What is it used for or how is it different? Seems it is the only thing sold on many retailers’ sites now.

Mrs T – at 15:10

I bought a crank FM/AM/short wave radio with weather band from Radio Shack for $45. It also has a light and charges cell phones. It works better than I thought it would. I cranked it about 30 times a month ago. Turned it on the other day without cranking. The light was still bright and I listened to the radio for a good 45 min.

NIdahoat 15:12

I also use a XM Radio. It is good to recieve a signal from there since it may still be on. I have to asume it will be a priority to keep running.

My Baygen Free play Radio has AM, FM, MW and SW This is enough for even people like me who live up in the N. US

ricewiki – at 15:13

Mrs T

What brand/model is your radio? How long ago did you buy it?

ricewiki – at 15:15

Does anyone know if there are any radios that receive ALL these bands? Might as well get a good one, I figure.

Np1 – at 15:19

If you actually expect to pick up distant stations, SW or otherwise you need an antenna. Radio shack sells a basic 75 ft wire one for about 10.00 USD. If your set does not have a plug for antenna, just wrap it around the FM antenna. Kelly

preppiechick – at 15:20

I have had the grundig since 2001, and it works great. Only thing annoying, is the cranking sound, when others are sleeping! I bought mine at Bed, Bath and Beyond - on sale, with coupon, but they sell at LLBean,also. Here’s the link:

http://tinyurl.com/5nmhj

It was very helpful, when our electricity was out for 4 days. I keep it in the car, with a crank flashlight - never have to worry about dead batteries. XM satellite is one of my backup plans. It was loaded on my car, and i pay @15. month. We drive cross country(well, 1/2 way) 1 or 2 times a year and comes in very handy. Bought dh a portable unit for christmas, adds another $6–7 month. The bonus on my car, with xm, is a satellite phone. 100 minutes for @30, for the whole year, and I always have phone service. more expensive per minute, than regular cell, but cheaper than roaming and ALWAYS works!

Np1 – at 15:21

Sorry, I mean wrap the END of the 75 ft antenna around the extendable FM antenna. Kelly

Exls – at 16:05

Just to straighten out several points about the topic of this thread:

The electromagnetic radiation which we call Radio travels as a wave, and each frequency (the number you see on the dial) has its own characteristic WAVELENGTH, which is the length between peaks in the wave as it travels. The bands which are used to broadcast information and entertainment are primarily in the MW (medium wavelength) and SW (short wavelength) bands. The MW band is usually considered to include the frequencies between 300 KHz and 3000 KHz (1000 meters to 100 meters wavelength), while the SW band includes the frequencies between 3000 KHz and 30,000 KHz (100 meters to 10 meters wavelength).

The important thing to understand is that signals propagate differently depending on their wavelength. In general, up till about 30,000 KHz (10 meters), the shorter the wavelength, the longer the potential propagation distance, assuming that the ionosphere is appropriately energized by, or shaded from the sun, depending on which frequency you are using. In general, wavelengths of 20 meters and longer propagate better during the night, and wavelengths of 20 to 10 meters propagate better during the daylight. Wavelengths shorter than about 10 meters tend to propagate primarily as Line-of-Sight signals (but sometimes they also can propagate long distances).

The US broadcast band occupies a portion of the MW radio spectrum. It tneds to provide longer distance propagation during the night.

International broadcasters operate on the SW bands, because their signals will propagate long distances, even completely around the planet.

Thus, by having an MW and an SW receiver in a single box, you have a unit which is capable of receiving much of the worlds broadcasting.

FM broadcasting, which uses a signal of a type which is different from the AM broadcasting on the MW and SW bands, occurs at a wavelength of about 3 meters. It is generally considered to operate as a Line-of-Sight mode of transmission, and so, in general, you will be listening to your local stations. Signals of this wavelength can sometimes follow weather fronts, and it is possible to hear stations from hundreds to thousands of miles away under rare conditions.

NOAA weather stations operate at even shorter wavelengths, and are even more strongly Line-of-Sight signals.

It is very difficult to design a radio which operates superlatively at each of these frequencies, and so often one which is good at one band is lousy in one or more of the others.

(By the way. I’m not at my own computer and can’t use my real name. I hope you can figger it out).

ricewiki – at 16:09

My guess is SIPCT or Eccles?:)

So FM broadcasts on shortwave, whereas AM broadcasts on both shortwave and mediumwave (as you put it)?

ricewiki – at 16:09

Thanks for your help…

ricewiki – at 16:11

I’m thinking of buying the FreePlay Summit…

it’s a winder, AM/FM with SW.

But I’d like a radio that also allows for headphone listening only. Not sure that this one does. Checkin’ it out. I never thought buying a radio would be this easy — it’s amazing to have all of this feedback and support. Great information hub here!

ricewiki – at 16:11

Is there a certain type of tuner or attenna that receives better than others? Quality-wise, what should I be looking for?

Exls – at 16:14

Almost. The US broadcast band, which uses tha AM mode of transmission, occurs completely on the MW band. SW broadcasters, who are not the US broadcasters, also use AM type signals, but all of their signals reside completely on the SW band.

FM broadcasts are done in the US on a band which is actually shorter than shortwave, which is called VHF (which stands for Very High Frequency).

Just to make things more confusing, some portions of the world also have broadcasting on the LW (or LongWave) band. But it would be of limited to no use for you to have such a receiver.

And I’m the second guy you picked.

Cosmo – at 16:16

This is the radio I bought off Ebay from the same seller http://tinyurl.com/rg2b2 It’s the TECSUN PL-350 FM/AM/SHORTWAVE DIGITAL RADIO. I’ve been using the same set of 3 AA batteries for over a month. It will also recharge NiCd inside the radio. The signal strength is good, it comes with a long external wire antenna for SW listening, the back light is bright for night use, and just a lot of fun to use. The down side is the controls are in Chinese. The seller sends an English manual and I have not had any problem figuring out the functions but it might bother some people.

Exls – at 16:20

With regard to antennas-

Most MW receivers made for consumer use contain a magnetic antenna within the case that works OK for local signals. For SW signals, and for superlative reception of AM, you need an outdoor wire antenna. Basically, it should get as high as you can get it, and should be of a length which is about 1/4 of the radio wavelength you intend to receive.

Thus, to receive broadcasters in the 31 meter International band, you would want a wire which is about 7.5 meters long (25 feet), with one end plugged into the antenna jack on your receiver, and the other end out the window and as high as you can get it. You will be amazed the difference you get between the little telescoping whip antenna and such a wire. You can use any old wire. Nothing fancy required.

ricewiki – at 16:31

Eccles

Where does one buy such an antenna? I can really use any old wire? Would I wrap the wire around the antenna that comes with the radio?

RE: frequencies, it seems that FM/SW/AM radios will basically take you from the shortest waves to the medium waves — so you could receive anything in that range?

Why is weatherbadnd different then?

Is there a radio you know of that receives WB and SSB as well as SW?

ricewiki – at 16:32

Sorry for so many pointed questions…. just getting very interested in this all of a sudden. Ready to buy one online unless you recommmend it’s better to buy in person to check it out.

Cosmo – at 16:35

Grove Enterprise has a lot of SW Radio gear to buy http://www.grove-ent.com/order.html

Cosmo – at 16:48

“Passport to World Band Radio” is a great book for beginners to SW radio. It gives a great overview of the SW radios on the market pluse a schudle of SW programing. It may be worth looking at before you purchase a new radio. http://tinyurl.com/p9ufb

Eccles – at 17:43

Ricewiki-

So much questions you have. I just got home, and probably won’t get to answer before the ABC movie tonight, but don’t buy anything till I get to give you some more info.

ricewiki – at 17:45

Eccles,

Sure no problem. Thanks so much. Let’s enjoy that film, even though we know it’ll be frustrating in parts:)

2beans – at 18:13

Freeplay solar/crank and 2 Grundig FR 200 battery/crank - one for each car. I’ve had them several years and they work just great. Grundigs were around $40 each and have flashlight and earphone plug-ins but none for sw antenna. I always wondered why sw reception was so lousy: 3 religious stations, BBC and what must be the shortest march ever written, endlessly on a loop.

Eccles – at 19:16

2Beans- That short march is what is called an Interval Signal. They are used by international shortwave broadcast stations to mark their frequencies so that folks without fancy digital tuning can find the station before the broadcast. If you listen to it as you approach the hour or half-hour, you will probably hear it suddenly switch over to real programming.

I can recall as a youth, exploring the SW band with a receiver for foreign stations, and the one signal I could always find and identify was a Cukaburra bird and guitar. I’m sure Nikolai could tell us where it came from.

FW – at 21:42

I’ve got several Grundig FR200 radios: I got them from Amazon.com one time when they were having a special and the price was $35 instead of the usual $40. Crank, battery, two SW bands, FM and AM, dial tuning… The one I use most often has been kicked, dropped (once from the top of a high stepladder), buried in dirt, rained on… and still works fine (I’m not deliberately stress-testing it, I’m just a klutz). The only problem I’ve ever had with one was when the built in rechargeable battery unit stopped working AND the regular batteries ran down; and when I turned the crank to see what happened, the alkaline batteries split and leaked. This probably would have been avoided if they’d be rechargable batteries…

I also have a Grundig YB400 radio for more serious SW listening. It has digital tuning (ie, you type the wavelength you want to listen to in on a keypad) and you can listen to a wide range of frequencies. For an antenna I use a 100 foot long plastic covered wire; nothing special, but it brings in broadcasts from around the world. As long as the sun isn’t acting up.

Radio Habana in Cuba really enjoys talking about what the U.S. is doing wrong… :(

10 May 2006

Galt – at 00:17

I have the Freeplay Plus (AM/FM/SW) that has solar and crank. Also has an LED light that is on the end but also can be removed to function like a spotlight (light has magnet on it that allows it to stick to surface when removed from radio, still attached to radio by cord). Light also is powered by solar/crank. I’ve been absolutely delighted with the radio. Can’t remember when I’ve been more pleased with a purchase. Got it in fall ‘05; paid about $100 plus shipping and an extra $10 or so for additional wall adapter. My mother and my mother-in-law are getting one for Mother’s Day.

Galt

Eccles – at 00:46

Ricewiki-

Getting back to your questions. - About that antenna. One does not need to go out and buy a special Super Whizbang Official Captain Midnight Shortwave Antenna Kit. The length of wire that I told you is sufficient for entry level receiving of the type we are discussing here. The wire can be of almost any gauge, and either solid or stranded, although the stranded wire tends to hold up better in this application. It should be insulated along its length so that it doesn’t touch some other conductive metal structure and “short out” the signal. There is only one absolutely unbreakable rule…

You must NEVER allow your wire antenna to cross either above or below any power conducting wires outside the house, nor should either end of it come anywhere near a powerline feed to your house.

People are killed every year because they do not obey this rule. If your antenna falls across an active power feed cable, or if the power feed cable falls across your antenna, you will be injured or killed. Similarly, the far end must never be attached to, nor come anywhere near the poles for or attachment points for powerline feeds for the same reason.

Other than that rule, the only other thing to remember is to get as much of the antenna as far away from the ground for as much of its length as possible.

That having been said, if your receiver also has a ground screw or ground connector, you can hook a similar length wire to the ground screw, run it in the opposite direction from the antenna wire and improve your reception even more. Alternatively, if you live in a house which uses metal pipes for the cold water or drain system, you can hook a wire to the pipes (they are grounded) and achieve the same effect.

If your radio does not have a specific antenna connector, then strip the wire at the radio end of the wwire antenna, and wrap several turns tightly around the telescoping whip, which you do not need to extend. The wire is doing the work now, not the little telescoping whip.

if you need further directions, just ask. You will be amazed at how many many many more things you receive in the shortwave bands.

As for receiving anything in that range, it depends on the radio. Some radios are designed to provide “General Coverage” over the shortwave bands, while others provide a few pieces of the shortwave band where internayional broadcasting operates. it would be highly unusual for radios in the price and quality class we are discussing to allow you to hear Everything in those frequency ranges. I have such equipment. It is not cheap, and it is not necessary for the average user.

Weather band is different only in that it is at a higher frequency than most of the normal consumer oriented broadcasts (162.5 MHz) and uses a modulation scheme called narrow band FM. You only need to know that there are good and bad receivers for that service, and that it is, by design intended to serve only local areas, and that with consumer grade equipment and little whip antennas, you will only receive stations local or not too terribly distant from you.

SSB is just a modulation methodology, which is normally used for shortwave voice communications by amateur radio and other services (such as trans oceanic aircraft). it is not a different band than SW, but rather a method of creating a much more effective voice signal than the standard AM signals. It requires a receiver specifically equipped to correctly receive such transmissions. this is not usually found on the cheaper end of the receiver family.

there are some receivers that can receive all of the above, and more, but they are usually in a price range well above what most folks would be interested in paying, and they are designed either for the serious hobbyist or the professional radio communications users.

ssol – at 08:39

Eccles - excellent post, particularly about antennaes. Thanks.

I believe most of your advice can be applied to those of us that are looking for a reliable one-way communication source when we are either at home for a period of time, or in our cars.

I am concerned with 2-way communication during a crisis when cellphones and landlines may not be highly reliable. I experienced this 3 years ago during the 2 day power outage on the East Coast when my wife and I were unable to reach her parents in Manhattan. I was prepared to drive there to get them but needed to reach them to set it up. Thankfully power came back on line before I left.

This lead my wife and I to thinking about crisis communication.

I am a data network engineer for an MSO. I can work remotely for long periods as long as I have power and my ISP is functioning, but several of us suspect the company may ask us to live/work for days in one of our MegaPOPs. Particularly if there are rolling brownouts or blackouts. Just so those on the list can plan accordingly, civil authorities generally require an MSO (most ISPs) to provide telephony service first, then cable TV and Internet when there are problems with the power grid. The idea behind this is to conserve service providers’ backup fuel sources until the extent of the power problem is defined, not that the Internet will go down due to traffic.

I strongly suspect my employer will label me ‘mission critical’ during a pandemic. I am not a ham radio operator. How much would we need to spend and how much time would be needed to get licensed to communicate 2-way over distances of 100 miles or so - hilly miles? I would be mobile, she would be at home. Opinions on this seem to vary widely.

Eccles – at 09:25

ssol- At the distance you require, it is difficult for me to envision a simplistic solution to your needs. In the case of mobile equipment, the line-of-sight bands would most usually not be able to sustain communications over those distances, unless both you and home were high on hilss and were unobstructed in between. A quick calculation shows me that both stations would need to be 1300 feet or more above average terrrain to make this work. that would be for line-of-sight.

The other way would be using shortwave in a mode called NVIS, which stands for Near vertical Incidence Skywave mode. (Stay with me, OK?). In this mode, one would use shortwave transmission equipment that would normally be used for long distance communication, but by using small and low antennas, the signals are directed up at a high angle to take a short bounce of of the ionosphere and come down somewhere between 50 and 500 miles from point-of-origin.

The good news about NVIS is that it actually requires that you be using less elaborate antennas than a long range shrtwave communications system. With NVIS, you could probably pull off the communications you are seeking, and probably 24 hours per day on the 80 meter or 40 meter Amateayr Bands (3.5 MHZ and 7 MHz). This would require that both yu and the wife pass the appropriate (above entry level) amateur licensing exams, both have appropriate equipment, and both have appropriate antennas.

The antenna for the home sight could be fairly compact. I use a Bilal isotron on a 17 foot mast for NVIS from my home Link Here. This is appropriate for a home station. For your vehicle,you could get an appropriate vehciular antenna, but be warned, they are a bit larger than you are used to seeing.

Given the higher complexity of the equipment you would need for this operation, you would be best using it parked. Otherwise, you would be an incredibly distracted driver. here is one example of an appropriate transceiver usable for either home or vehicle. You would need one at each end, along with a licensed operator at each end. Link to see radio.

ricewiki – at 12:44

Thanks Eccles for the tips.

SSOL, remember, this thread is for one-way only. You can start a thread for two-way if you wish, but I opened this to focus. Also, see the communication thread for info on two-way.

Eccles

>”You must NEVER allow your wire antenna to cross either above or below any power conducting wires outside the house, nor should either end of it come anywhere near a powerline feed to your house.”

Can you elaborate on this? What counts as a powerline feed to my house? Do you just mean that I can’t let my antenna touch (in any way) any of the overhead telephone wires? What are all the different sorts of power conducting wires I need to be aware of?

Thanks SO much Eccles…

Eccles – at 16:39

Ricewiki- If it is a wire, unless it is known to you specifically to be a receiving antenna, then you must assume that it is carrying voltages which can potentially be lethal. it is not just a matter of letting them touch when you install things. Since wind and snow and ice and deterioration of supporting structures all occur over time, you must assume that any two wires which cross each other may potentially come into contact with one another. the best way to avoid potentially lethal consequences is to set things up such that there is no chance of this ever happening.

One of the more popular ways for people to kill themselves with electricity is to erect a mast which is sufficiently long such that either during erection, or later in the wind, it tips over and contacts a high voltage feeder. Please do not let this happen to you.

ricewiki – at 20:00

I’ll just make sure I use my antenna in a big open area… but that has me thinking twice anyway… stay away from all other wires… period!

ricewiki – at 20:01

Today I just bought the FreePlay Summit radio. It has AM, FM, SW and LW and has a crank, or solar, or rechargeable options. Digital tuner. I’ll test it out some and then I’ll know better what other kind of radio I might need.

I’d like a good one with SSB, and/or maybe a smaller one for a bug-out-bag.

Anon -WA – at 20:02

I believe starting this weekend, Radio Shack will be having a sale on the Grundig Mini 100 PE AM/FM/Shortwave Radio, for $20. Went in today and they told me they were out but it will be coming in tomorrow for an upcoming sale. Usual price $25. Takes AA batteries, for which I am using rechargeables and have a solar battery charger.

ssol – at 20:59

ricewiki - You’re right. Sorry for the confusion.

Eccles - thanks for the information and encouragement. I used http://www.vanityhq.com/cgi/hamlocator.cgi?http://www.mccardel.net/hamradio/, and found a club right on the road I live on. Thanks again for the encouragement!

Desertstar – at 21:35

Can anyone recommend a solar battery charger and provide a link? Thanks.

ricewiki – at 22:01

Desertstar, there’s probably some on the energy threads…. there are lots of them! Sorry I can’t give you a name or two…

Mrs T – at 22:18

ricewiki

It’s Radio Shack brand, but they had 2 other brands that do the same thing. I bought it about 2 months ago.

11 May 2006

mountainlady – at 04:28

Eccles – at 00:46

Would attaching to a TV antenna do any good? Or is the wire better?

For others’ information, we just bought a Grundig from Amazon. Got here in 3 or 4 days from Lexington, KY. http://tinyurl.com/p2fd3

There are other colors besides blue.

Ceredwin – at 04:38

They had solar battery chargers in Emergency Essentials’ http://www.BePrepared.com, AAA,AA, C& D for about $20, either type of recargeable battery was ok.

Eccles – at 11:00

Mountainlady- Attaching a TV antenna would do something, where something is better than nothing. but the frequencies that a TV antenna is designed for make it of very little use in shortwave reception. In actuality, the feedline out to the TV antenna would probably make a decent antenna, except for the grounding of the outer braid if it is coaxial cable.

But this is really not a big deal. Just get a length of wire somewhere netween 25 and 50 feet log, attach 1 end to the antenna of the radio and fling the other end out of an upstairs window. No angst need be involved.

ANON-YYZ – at 11:23

Eccles – at 11:00

I bought a Grundig FR-200 hand crank radio with AM/FM/SW1/SW2. AM/FM are fine but I have a hard time with SW1 and SW2. Lots of static. Stations seem to be close to each other and mixed up. Only stations I can hardly hear are church sermon service stations.

For the Short Wave problem, would a ‘length of wire somewhere netween 25 and 50 feet’ attached to the telescopic attenna solve the problem.

Thanks

Eccles – at 11:32

ANON-YYZ - The wire antenna would bring in more stations, and bring them in louder. Depending on the source of the static, the antenna could make it better or worse. Depending on which SW band you were listening to, it could have been lightning static, which is very prevalent and noisome this time of year.

With regard to stations being close together and difficult to tune between, this is a function of the tuner in the radio. SOme radios have very touchy tuning, and very coarse tuning knobs. Since I don’t have an FR-200, I am unfamiliar with the tuning ratio on that model. You may have to learn to tune gently with a deft touch.

Hillbilly Bill – at 11:34

A radio that has a fine tuning knob is a definite plus.

ANON-YYZ – at 13:28

Eccles – at 11:32

Thanks. I will get a wire and run it through the stair well vertically and see how it goes.

Hillbilly Bill – at 11:34 The FR-200 has a hand-crank - the reason why I bought it. Quite happy with AM/FM. I realize there are better fine tuned SW radios. It’s a trade-off.

ricewiki – at 13:34

Eccles rocks!

ricewiki – at 13:34

Thinking of starting a page for the Eccles fan club…:)

Eccles – at 13:35

ANON-YYZ- As long as you live in typical residential frame constructed house, that should work just fine. In a steel framed building, the steel skeleton will act as shielding and reduce reception.

ANON-YYZ – at 13:50

Eccles – at 13:35

It’s typical residential 2-storey woodframe with a basement. Should have total height of about 25–30 ft.

Thanks again.

ricewiki – at 13:34 Fanclub it is. Keep counting membership…every fluwikian

12 May 2006

mountainlady – at 01:48

Eccles – at 11:00

Thanks for the info! We have a galvanized metal roof, I guess that would reduce reception?

Eccles – at 06:49

Mountainlady- A galvanized metal roof could complicate reception with an indoor antenna. If you just get the wire out a window and runing out in the clear for much of its length, you should still do fine.

tc_in_CT – at 10:09

Eccles - at 16:20

You can use any old wire. Nothing fancy required…

Would the guage of the wire have any impact on reception? (Fatter the better?)

Sheilded or bare wire? (makes none or some difference?)

If you had a 25 foot wire running up the back of your house to (say) a window. Then a small portion running into the house, that you would wrap around the antenna (bare wire a few times)… Now for the stupid question… Isn’t that a “kinda bad idea” in regard to lightning? Shouldn’t it be ground(ed) somehow?

tc_in_CT – at 10:12

Eccles—

Sorry for last post, you covered that later in the thread… I had only gotten to the 16:20 post and those questions popped into my head…

I think you’ve explained it well enough in subsequent postings … THANKS

Eccles – at 10:31

tc_in_CT

Lightning is always an issue with receiving antennas, in two ways.

  1. A nearby lightning strike (say within a mile or two) can easily induce a voltage in the wire antenna which is sufficiently high such that it damages the circuitry in the receiver to which it is attached. Folks like myself who have large antennas outside have fairly comprehensive measures in place to protect our equipment from such damage.
  2. A direct or very close-by hit can conduct dangerous voltages into the house which can injure or kill people, or start fires. In most cases though, the arrangement which I have described is somewhat protected by higher objects nearby (peak of roof, trees, etc).

If possible, I would detach from such an antenna when not in use, to prevent damage to my radio by lightning in the area. If I had thrown it out the window as described above, I’d just pull it back in when not in use.

For folks who want a more permanent installation, there are more complicated things to do, but that gets outside the scope of this thread.

tc_in_CT – at 10:38

Eccles

Yeah, ummm duh ! Use the wire ONLY WHEN you are using it…and NEVER during threating weather. ALWAYS disconnect when you done. thanks again…

FW – at 11:40

Eccles – at 11:00 wrote:

>But this is really not a big deal. Just get a length of wire somewhere netween 25 and 50 feet log, attach 1 end to the antenna of the radio and fling the other end out of an upstairs window. No angst need be involved.<

And let us not forget that ‘almost mythical among radio-philes’ improvised antenna, the Slinky! (“It’s Slinky, it’s Slinky, for fun it’s a wonderful toy!”). Wire one end of a Slinky to your antenna (and perhaps to an anchor so it can’t get loose), toss the other end out a window, and you not only have an antenna that - some say - can bring in stations like no normal wire can, you’ve also got a great source of bouncy entertainment!

Made sure that no matter where the Slinky bounces in the event of wind - down, sideways, straight up - there are no power lines in range. Just to be safe.

Eccles – at 11:44

FW- Just for my amusement- Have you ever had to unravel a slinky after it got blown around in the wind just a little too much?

Hillbilly Bill – at 11:57

Eccles: I wonder how long the R&D guys spent trying to unravel the initial prototypes before they tossed them in the trash.

Hurricane Alley RN – at 12:17

Hi Eccles,

 Ordered a Grundig Emergency radio a few days ago. Reason: If we lose power and hurricane season is closing in. I’m an info junky.

Until power goes out, I should be set. That is a soon as I get my dipole back up. Took it down for Ivan. I haven’t put it back up because Ivan took the two oak tree’s I was holding hostage. As for you’re slinky theory, I can well imagine what my antennae would have looked like if I not taken it down. I can see my ADD is in full swing today. I’m a HAM (as in radio). gina

Eccles – at 12:22

Hurricane AlleyRN- The idea of a slinky antenna is the high distributed inductance which allows it to be physically short while resonating at a much higher frequency than otherwise available in that space. But one needs to understand the mechanical mounting arrangement. The way to mount a slinky is with rope down the middle providing support, and preventing the kind of mechanical mayhem which occurs if it twists back on itslef and locks turns.

it should take yo like about an hour to get a dipole back up. if you have any QRP equipment, make sure it is working and you have sufficient battery power for operating without thr mains. We’ll need you down there. And CW operation burns lots less battery than SSB.

(Sorry to the rest of the folks out there, I’ll de-jargonize again).

14 May 2006

ricewiki – at 14:23

Eccles

On which frequencies of the SW band does SSB lie?

Saw a Grundig today that had 7 SW bands, but no mention of SSB. However, the little paper sign that advertised it (taped below it to the shelf) said it was a SW with SSB receiver. (yes, I made sure it was talking about the same radio). The CSA and I both looked at the box and manual, but there was also no mention of SSB. I believe this Grundig was the FW250 (or FR250?)

My question is just, when looking at SW radios, how to know which will receive SSB? This particular radio cost 69.99 Canadian (so, maybe 59 USD?)

Eccles – at 16:01

Ricewiki-

A little explanation of what SSB is seems to be in order here.

If I can use non-radio terms to describe tings, it may be a little easier. If you think of each of the shortwave bands as a place, then SSB is not a place. It is a language which can be spoken in any place you wish to speak it. SSB is not a band, but rather is a methodology of conveying information over a radio signal, as are AM and FM. SSB capability in a receiver means that it is capable of receiving a signal which is encoded using SSB and converting it into intelligible speech. All receivers will Receive the signals that occur at whatever frequency they are tuned to, but can only recover information if they have the correct Demodulator

Thus, a receiver which is designed to receive AM signals (as are all Shortwave Broadcast receivers) is capable of receiving a signal which has been modulated using the AM (or Amplitude Modulation) technique, and recovering intelligible speech or music and playiong out of the speaker. If the same receiver were to encounter a Frequency Modulated signal on the same frequency, it would not be capable of recovering any useful information from the signal, and you would not be able to hear what was being conveyed.

In a similar way, a receiver which is designed to receive an FM signal actually REJECTS any AM signals or information which it receives, which is one reason that FM transmission are almost noiseless.

Now then, an SSB signal is a highly compressed form of AM signal, which can be heard on an ordinary AM receiver, but comes out of the loudspeaker as a kind of muffled Donald Duck speak. this compression permits an SSB signal to penetrate adverse conditions better, and to permit the use of lower power transmitters to achieve the desired communication effect. (Note to purists - Yes, I know that I am using compression incorrectly here. But this isn’t a college EE class).

SO then, what SSB capability in a receiver means is that if you should happen to tune into an SSB signal (such as is used in Ham and trans-oceanic aircraft transmissions), you will be able to actually listen to the communications, instead of just hearing that something is going on, but you can’t understand it.

I hope I have made things clear enough to understand. Sometimes as I write this stuff, I begin to feel like Dr. Duckie lecturing to Mr. Palmer.

15 May 2006

Desertstar – at 20:48

The American Red Cross has partnered with the Etón Company to create a line of emergency radios.

Here’s the FR400. Very, very cool.

http://tinyurl.com/p28s7

I want.

16 May 2006

ricewiki – at 20:18

Thanks Eccles — very succinct and clear!

So I guess what it comes down to is that I DO need the radio to actually SAY it has SSB capability for me to be able to listen to it.

It’s not good enough just to have a shortwave radio, then.

ricewiki – at 20:47

Eccles,

Can you post any links or names of SSB radios you would recommend? Regardless of price — I just wouldn’t mind seeing what they look like. Who knows, maybe I’ll spring for some extra cash!:)

Eccles – at 23:48

Ricewiki-

I’ll pull a list together of radios in a price range that is at least rational. Realize that I have paid more for some of my radios during my lifetime than I have paid for cars. Sick, I know, but it keeps me in, off the street at night, and my wife can always hear what I am up to.

And just like in the old movies, when the drums suddenly go silent, you know something bad is about to happen.

17 May 2006

ricewiki – at 00:01

Thanks Eccles… I patiently wait your informed opinion. Emergency radios are going to be my new latest hobby, I can see it now….:) One for every day of the week and every weather pattern! A version of each for the Bug-out bag!

ricewiki – at 00:02

(Eccles

BTW, it’s a topic for another thread, but I did manage to get those collapsible water containers you mentioned… great idea. Bought a month’s “minimum.” Feel a bit better.)

Hurricane Alley RN – at 00:09

Eccles

 Are you a HAM by any chance? gina
Eccles – at 00:23

Gina-

Of course. I thought I had made that clear previously.

Hurricane Alley RN – at 01:06

Eccles, If you did, I forgot. I think I paniced when I saw cw on the screen. It’s a long old story.What is you’re call if you don’t mind me asking. Maybe we have already talked to each other. I’m KC4TYJ. gina

Eccles – at 01:34

Gina- I’d prefer not to post them here. If you e-mail me via address in my profile, we can connect that way.

Hurricane Alley RN – at 01:55

Eccles,

 Help! Tom DVM and I have something in common. Lack of computer knowhow. How do I get there? gina

23 May 2006

ricewiki – at 19:34

I just bought the grundig/Eton FR-300. It has Weather band and TV1, TV2 on it. No solar panel, though, which is too bad. Just a hand crank. Seems pretty good so far — fine tuning, too. Comes with a nice carry case and lots of adapters. Also, it doesn’t have SSB reception. I’m stll interested in finding one of those if anyone comes across a fairly cheap one (less than $400 ?)

Sailor – at 19:45

ricewiki

I was in “The Sourse” on the weekend and they have the YB400 with SSB for 130$ Canadian.

ricewiki – at 20:12

Wow, Sailor, which area of the country are you in? I bought mine from The Source in southern ontario and there weren’t any other models….

Urdar-Norge – at 20:24

reminds me of the sad ending of the Norwwgian shortwave radio.. Norway after 55 years of transmitting its national radio on shortwave for thousands of norvegian sailors around the globe ended the transmissions in 2003. Among the reason was “the elektrisity costs”, the transmitter used so much Watts that it was to exepensive to run.(!). They said that internet radio was better.. Well.. that is if you have a broadband internet conection, most smaller boats dont.. So lesson is, the large shortwave transitters are very dependent on energy, and I think small generators don´t do the trick.. AM transmitters I think is more energy conservative..?

The HAM people should join the FWans in a pandemic in case of large blackouts.. Would be great to listen to Melanie & co, when I am in my shelter, with candles and wine ;)

ricewiki – at 20:55

there’s an idea, I agree! :)

what do you all think — fluwiki broadcasts? podcasts? audio forum:)?

Sailor – at 23:17

ricewiki

I am located in sunny Alberta. I just checked with our local store and I made a mistake on the price it is 169.99$ not 129.99$ as I thought but it is still a sale price from the regular price of 199.99$ which I paid for mine a number of years ago. The # for the radio from “The Sourse” catalog is 2019119.

Sailor – at 23:23

ricewiki

I think the idea of fluwiki short wave brodcasts would be great to hear, possibly some of the SW Hams might be able to set something up. What do you all think?

EOD – at 23:42

Have had one of the Grundig with the solar panel & crank for a bit but just bought another that I really like (Sony ICF-SW7600GR) it does not have the versatility in charging methods but the digital tuning is so much nicer. I think I’ll be pleased with the combination of both. I am brand new to this whole SW thing but am having fun learning. Thank you to everyone on this thread who are educating the rest of us.

24 May 2006

worst case – at 00:34

I bought mine new off Ebay for $30. I was looking at the identical radio at an online store for $79. It’s a crank/solar powered radio but you can also put batteries in it or you can plug it in with the adapter. The best of all worlds!

Eccles – at 11:57

Bumping to keep open for now

Hillbilly Bill – at 12:26

I think I’ll have to dust off my old Hallicrafter and re-string the antennae.

BroncoBillat 13:46

Bump

Hillbilly Bill – at 16:22

Bump

Eccles – at 16:24

By the way, Bill. That wouldn’t be an old S-38 would it?

Hillbilly Bill – at 16:40

Not sure Eccles, I will have to check. It has been awhile since I have warmed up the tubes on that set. I was an avid shortwave enthusiasist until I accidentally saw Susie Perkins adjusting her garters and stockings in the back hallway of the gym. Perhaps that may have been a pivotal point in my life….

25 May 2006

Hillbilly Bill – at 08:39

Eccles: It is an S-120 and it looks like I need a new tube or two :-(

Eccles – at 09:20

HBB- The extreme hum you heard was due to degraded filter capacitors. Also, if you need a tube for it, I got tubes. Lotsa tubes.

Hillbilly Bill – at 09:30

Eccles: Your the man! I’ll get back to you when I have checked it out thoroughly.

26 May 2006

MaMaat 01:58

bump

ricewiki – at 11:46

bump for amateur

Eccles – at 11:59

Ricewiki- By the way, I haven’t forgotten about that list of high end receivers. I’ve just been busier than a one-armed paper hanger with an itch. I’ll get to it eventually.

ergosum – at 12:13

An observation: all SW radios have a “crank” attached to them…

;-)

Hillbilly Bill – at 12:54

ergosum – at 12:13 and most computers have a “nut” loose on the keyboard.

LMWatBullRunat 15:46

I have read this thread at length and I have a suggestion- For those that want a very wide range of receiver capability with significant portability, I suggest that you consider the ICOM RC-8. This is available in various versions but they all run on 4 AA cells (NiCad or NiMH ok) which I can recharge on my solar charger or on my inverter/charger. With the right antenna can cover all modes from 500 Khz up to 1500 Mhz. Good sensitivity and battery life. Got mine on Ebay for just over $200 used in excellent shape. Highly recommended.

Eccles – at 20:43

LMWatBullRun-

The Icom RC-8 and some of the other high end receivers are certainly some of the best equipment you can get. I suspect that it would be more than over the top for all but a few of our Wiki colleagues. Its the kind of thing that would keep me entertained for ages.

The issue with many of the receivers in that class is just the huge load of features (that most casual users won’t know what to do with) creates a fairly complex set of control inputs. I’ve owned a Yaesu FT-530 for years, and still need to resort to a “cheat sheet” to change it into some operating modes.

But that was a great price you paid for a remarkably good Rx. I’ll be preparing some material to post on this thread about units like that, and some of the ones that are intermediate, like the Sangean family.

28 May 2006

ricewiki – at 01:10

Thanks Eccles, I happily and patiently await…..

Eccles – at 01:17

Ricey (May i get familiar and call you Ricey? I don’t mean nuthin by ti.)

ANyhow, I’ve been busy with many things, and I have been unusually in demand on the solar generator thread, so I’ve just let this one slide for a while.

Besides. What’s there to listen to except a bunch of stations in other countries giving you news that you don’t hear here?

ricewiki – at 01:20

Hi Eccles, sure, call me ricey! or “rice” - rice is nice!

I picked up the Eton FR-300. I have to say i really like listening to the weather recordings. Even having that could anchor some sanity during a quarantine type situation. i’d rather here any other human voice if I was SIP, since I’ll probably be SIP alone when TSHTF.

Eccles – at 01:31

Ricewiki- There is actually someting to it. I have also found that just having a voice over a radio during times of isolation can help keep you sane and grounded. I think its probably a built-in people thing.

I’ve also found that very weak stations fluttering in and out just at the noise level of the receiver can be very spooky and make you begin to feel like a schizophrenic. Well, they do that to me, anyway.

<’‘Real bumper sticker I saw recently:

I didn’t go to work today. The voices told me to stay home and clean my guns.’‘>

BroncoBillat 02:03

Bumped for Eccles. Again. ;-)

02 June 2006

Sailor – at 10:31

Bumped for Eccles. Again

DeepImpact2005at 11:32

Eccles at 01:31

I got a good laugh when I saw your bumper sticker quote. Thanks for the lighter moment.

03 June 2006

ricewiki – at 11:00

Someone on another recent thread mentioned satellite radio as an option if there were no internet. Should I start a separate thread on it, or, due to server restrictions, keep it going here. hate to bury the info.

I am totally new to satellite radio. All I know is that it is commercial-free and the main providers are Sirius and XM.? How would it be of benefit during a SIP? Because it is automated? I guess it would be nice to have automatic music as well with my weather forecasts etc. I was thinking of getting a satellite radio for the gym anyway…

BakedClamat 15:13

SSB note:

A receiver that properly receives SSB modulated transmissions should have a BFO function / knob (Beat Frequency Oscillator). Look for it.

LMWatBullRunat 15:42

Eccles:

I agree about the “over-the-top” eval of the RC-8, not surprising since I am an “over-the-top” sort of person. (As one of my co-workers said- “L, I bet you have a backup plan for everything”. My response was “not yet but I’m working on it.”)

I have not had time to fully explore the capability of this device yet, that is one of the things I’d do if the SHTF, but I’ve worked with it enough to know it is awesome. Tell me more about the Sangean rcvr?

inthehills – at 16:02

i live in the boonies and love gadgets. when i go into town,i check the sales at radio-s****. hand held cb,reduced from 100 to 20$. walkietalkies,from 50 to 15$,five mile range. battery digital sw,100 to 35$ battery am/fm/sw/tv/weather,30$ handcrank,25$ i know,it’s a sickness,but lots of toys to play with for a hundred odd bucks. and hell,they might even come in handy.

Cosmo – at 18:23

I went to Best Buy today and they had a hand crank American Red Cross sponsored Eton Shortwave radio for sale. It was a little weird to see this at Best Buy.

ricewiki – at 18:30

Already checked the Best Buys in my area in Canada, but they typically don’t carry emergency radios. Best Buy told me they don’t always carry in-store everything on their website.

Eccles – at 18:59

All- I need to update the receiver stuff here. Unfortunately this weekend I have been without my broadband connection and have had to deal with “Timmy” on the help desk who only knows to follow the script. When he gets to the part of what operating system do you have? XP? and I say “No, Linux” he kind of stops dead.

Anyhow, that has been consuming my time lately.

More soon.

ihope, I hope, i hope.

ricewiki – at 20:10

Eccles,

I’m thinking the wiki needs a page called “The Eccles FAQ”, or, “Everything You Ever Wanted to Know About Power and Radios But were Afraid to Ask Eccles” :)

ricewiki – at 20:11

or hey, even your own podcast, “Eccles In Demand!”

05 June 2006

Sailor – at 13:18

Bump for Eccles

Eccles – at 13:21

Ricewiki- I was actually thinking of the title being the same as my e-mail address (shut_up_eccles. has a nice ring to it)

ricewiki – at 13:27

Ah…. so maybe there is an eccles FAQ plan in the works!:) Good idea. How many radios do you actually own now?:) Just curious, read your post on the other thread.

ricewiki – at 13:29

I like “Eccles In Demand” - sounds like a radio show, fitting. We could put it in the section beneath “discussion forum.” I could start the page, you could edit your FAQ.

Eccles – at 13:30

Ricewiki- If you count radios for other applications than just TSHTF, many mucho lotsa radios..

LMWatBullRunat 14:05

I counted this in my head and I think I have 16 or 17…. not counting my 1.5 KW ham HF linear or stereo am/fm equipment…… BTW, Eccles, I have an ICOM R10, not a DRAKE R8. Mea Culpa. Got it out and listened to the 40 meter shortwave broadcasts last night, then to the local highway patrol.

I am still interested in the Sangean receivers you mentioned, and will be waiting with bated breath…..

Eccles – at 14:09

LMW - I’m a gettin’ to it. I’ve had my hands full lately and haven’t had the time to spin down and do a proper job.

LMWatBullRunat 15:17

Know that feeling. Not time critical but I am curious and I’m sure others are more interested than I.

To those others, esp. those who live in the “boonies”, I have purchased a lot of great electronic equipment from Ebay; once you know what you want that is a great place to shop.

Eccles – at 23:56

bump

06 June 2006

Eccles – at 06:46

bump

07 June 2006

Eccles – at 07:36

bump

08 June 2006

Eccles – at 00:32

bump yet again

09 June 2006

Closed and Continued - BroncoBillat 01:04

Closed due to length. Conversation is continued here.

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