Hello - I live in northern virginia. I have thought about buying a “safe” house in a rural area a few hours from the city. I would like to have my own septic tank, my own well and a wood burning fireplace/stove. I am fairly well stocked for food/water/meds but the thing that scares me is heat and being able to survive in the winter. I know people have discussed elsewhere how to survive in cold climates but personally I would just as soon have a wood burning fireplace to keep me warm. Have any of you folks considered going in with another familiy and purchasing a house together to defer some of the costs?
dirt – at 13:36 the most important thing in having a warm house is making sure it has lots of insulation. You also want it on the south side of the mountain. If you have enough insulation heating becomes fairly easy.
dirt, I’ve considered it, but then I’d have to hope the other people died. ;-)
Actually now I’m looking at a little Amish farmhouse. Wood heat and hot water; update it? No way!
You’ll need a wood burning stove, NOT a fireplace, to keep warm. Fireplaces are extremely ineffecient — you will use several times more wood for very little heat.
A good tight stove burns very cleanly, and puts out a LOT of heat. You may be surprised at how LITTLE wood you will need and how warm the house will get. Needing to open windows in freezing weather to cool the house off is not unheard of … And wood is cheap. Just make sure you get a wood that burns cleanly — some types of pine are not appropriate for burning inside.
If buying a stove, make sure it doesn’t need electricity to work. Some have fans to help with the draft.
Ideally, the well should be shallow enough to get water out of with a hand pump or bucket. Otherwise, you’ll need a generator for the pump. Make sure the generator has sufficient wattage for the pump(s) (some setups have a booster pump above ground, too).
As far as buying a bug out house — if you can afford a second home, I’d buy one you can use as a vacation home and enjoy it on the weekends and holidays. Stock it with food and water, gas, supplies, etc. Given your location, Bird Flu is not the only threat that might cause you to need to head for the hills.
Oh, one more comment on the stove — if you’re looking at a house with a fireplace, they make stove inserts that fit in a fireplace and work well enough. I’ve seen a 1860′s era cabin retrofitted with a fireplace insert and it worked very well.
I would like an outdoor burner. Heat and hot water. Plus you can burn all your paper trash. One pallet board to burn every day or every other day.
I lived in Tex before moving here. We bought an old trailer with acreage up in the mountain and used it mostly a vacation spot. However just having it was such a comfort - knowing we could just take off on a long weekend (or a “working woman’s holiday”) whenever we wanted. I think that psychologists will tell you just having an alternative choice will reduce your stress level. We never went to our vacation place often but just knowing we could any time we just wanted to get away was so comforting. Then we just move out here and it is one big vacation doing what we want- out of the city rat race.
So if you can afford it, a safe house/vacation cabin/escape is nice and I would advise it over blood pressure medicine.
dirt, You are on the right track. Buy a place that has at least one fireplace and that has or can have a wood stove in a seperate room (i.e., basement). My woodstove in the basement heats the whole 3,000 ft. house. The fireplace obviously also provides heat, but I use mine primarily as a focal point during the snowy mountain winters. Look for a place that is next to a source of water (creek, river, lake, spring) - multiple sources if you can. I’ve got two wells, a year round creek right next to the house, and five springs on my property within 400′ of the house. Plus grid, solar, hydro, and generator power. Pitching in with other folks to buy your retreat is a great way to go. But don’t delay.
Cygnet – at 14:48 Oh, one more comment on the stove — if you’re looking at a house with a fireplace, they make stove inserts that fit in a fireplace and work well enough.
We are using our fireplace insert as our primary heat source for 1800+ s.f. Not using it to heat the finished spaces in the basement. FYI, to heat this space will only take 3–4 cords here in New England.
Dirt, if you have enough disposable income to buy a second house, you should educate yourself about installing a zero (or near-zero) clearance woodstove in your current home. It’ll be a hell of a lot less expensive than buying an entire second home. However, this will only work if you have someplace to discreetly store several cords of wood. Otherwise, your wood will probably be stolen.
I am on the other side of the coin—have 10 vacation rental homes that will be empty when TSHTF. Just hope I can hook up folks to ‘rent’ them as bug out places. That way I can still pay the mortgages! I figure my bank will still be there when this is over—it is over 110 years old so has been around!
so dirt, if you want to talk—nsotto at shentel.net ShenVAl
Consider the fact that you may not be able to get there. Traffic congestion there is pretty bad from what I remember. Maybe, if you have the funding, you would do well to improve the house you’re in first then expand to a second location.
Shenval Where are your vacation rental homes? Are they self sufficient in a rural area? If so, I doubt that you will have trouble renting them. In any event, when it happens, they will be occupied - one way or another.
Husband and I are trying to relocate our family out in the country. We are having a difficult time trying to find fertile soil, continuously flowing creeks/rivers, on 20–40 acres. Any ideas on how to find a natural spring or “great soil”?
Since we can’t afford a second home, and I would question the wisdom of trying to evacuate to one even if we did have it, we opted instead to make our house on the outskirts of town as survivable as possible - added a wood burning stove last year. Even if we could afford a 2nd place, I’d not be able to afford to keep two places stocked, and wouldn’t feel comfortable thinking that at the last minute we could move all or many of our preps from one place to another.
We’re in SW Va, and I’m sure I feel safer in our small town here than I would in northern Va!
shouldn’t buying vaccine be much cheaper and more protective than buying safe houses ?
It’s a lot easier to find a real estate sales person than it is to find someone who sells vaccine; if all things were equal, then yes, of course it’d be cheaper. More protective would depend on the vaccine and the strain from which it was made - an incorrect match could result in a vaccine that would be far worse than no vaccine at all, as well as a mistaken sense of preparedness.
you can get thousands of different strains in your vaccine or enough antivirals for a whole village for the price of one house. Why is an incorrect match worse than no vaccine at all ? In a pandemic you would only take your vaccine, when the then reported match is good.
Minneapolis Mom at 23:51, land such as you describe will probably come at a premium price. Land that is abandoned farmland (hasn’t been plowed in a while, but has been used for farming in the past; possibly CRP land or just abandoned as farmland) is likely pretty good soil. Look too at what’s growing there now… is the vegetation sparse or luxuriant? Look at what’s growing on surrounding properties too, that’ll give you an idea of what your soil might be capable of. If you’re not a gardener, get a gardener friend to show you what GOOD dirt looks and feels like, then get down on your hands and knees to examine the dirt on any prospective property.
As for the water aspect, it’s likely that “what ya see is what ya get”. If there are any natural springs on the property they’ve likely already been either developed or destroyed. Ponds, creeks and rivers should be easy enough to spot. Get a gazzetteer and use it when looking for likely properties, it will help you get an idea of what’s around you.
A realtor may be able to help you find what you want, but don’t forget about just driving the backroads of the area you’re interested in (this is where the gazzetteer comes in really handy), and ads placed by individuals in local papers. People going thru a divorce or medical problems, or who’ve inherited Grandma’s “back 40″, often sell at way below what you’d find with a realtor.
Good Sensible anonymous; going soliticing for probablity estimates as if experts could read the future and just refused to tell you, now, expecting the world to let you cut in line in front of VIPs and military and nurses and get yourself a vaccine… that may not even work. “On order” doesn’t mean it exists, can’t even get samples, with all the strains out there now, poor monitoring infrastructure, and greedy governments not sharing sequences immediately. (Take vaccine when the reported match sounds good? Must have much more faith in lab work and official communications continuing during a pandemic than I do.) Vaccine or antivirals are not to be had, may not work, and you, and your nation, will still have to deal with supply disruptions and civil disruptions over a pandemic year or two. Great singular focus; glitched sense of preparedness.
Minneapolis Mom – at 23:51. Kim sounds like she knows her stuff; also perhaps, a person involved with land or species conservation, agriculture, or watersheds, in the area you’re interested in would have the kind of maps or surface info a real estate person wouldn’t? That info, plus the for-sale-by-owner ads? Good luck.
Minneapolis Mom, another possibility is to go have coffee in a local restaurant a few times in the area you’re interested in. If you’re comfortable chatting with strangers, ask the waitress or strike up a conversation with a person sitting near you. The locals will likely know quite a bit about what is to be had in the area regarding property for sale and who to contact to find out more. While you’re there also check if they’ve got a bulletin board for local notices- there might be places listed there that might never make it to a realtor.
Surfer - 15:44 Hydro? Not much has been said regarding small microhydro. Mind sharing your experiences/knowledge on Alternative power source thread. Sounds like we share the same plat of land.
Dirt & Minneapolis Mom, Maybe another option…. I rent out my cabins to vacationers thoughout the southeast, and I am listed on several major vacation rental websites (which usually allow many photographs, location descriptions, proximity to towns, universities, hospitals, etc) and have actually received 2 inquiries in the last several days wanting to know if I have any interest in selling. In the last year I’ve probably gotten 7–8 such inquiries. So this may be worth a look. you would likely be dealing directly with owners who may or may not consider selling. Do a google search with the words “vacation rental” in the area you want, and I can almost guarantee several of these sites will show up. Once you click on the site you can browse other areas in multiple states as well. Also, all the real estate agencies in my rural area have web pages with featured listings, pics, prices. There are also FSBO websites too.
Minn Mom When we moved out of the city ten odd years ago we found that there are two people who are invaluable The zoning adm. and a local well driller. They know the areas. Another source of info and avail property is the local resterant. In small town USA there is a local grooup that gathers in a local greasy spoon and spends hours drinking coffee. they are the self employed the retired ect. They know about everybody and everything in the area. Youll know them as soon as you walk into said local resterant. Pull up a chair and tell them want your trying to do [find]
Good soil can is made. For a garden find a farmer who has horses or livestock they will let you have all the soil enrichment you care to shovel. You will need a pick up, pitchfork and strong back. After several loads of manure are put on your spot till it in. Result good soil. If your looking to farm a few acres you can palnt cover crops and add lime or whatever your soil is lacking. BTW your gonna need a tractor for anything bigger than a garden. If your looking for good pasture. That can be made too, your local feed mill or coaperative can get you started there.
Unless your looking to farm a few acres 20 acres is going to be way more than your gonna need. Your money may be better spent on something like tractors outbuildings solar ect. Im on 5 acres and its more than enough to homestead on. Plus Im not paying taxes on something I dont need. Im in MI and around here anything with water is twice as expensive. So Id go smaller on the acreage. Just my thoughts though. Good luck I think your making a smart decision
Cabingirl,
Here is the quick and dirty on my hydro set-up. Not quite connected yet, but within one week away. Probably won’t be functional until late winter and early spring, due to the low flow volume of the creek, but it will be in place, and ready to go.
It is a small unit that is designed to be mounted under or towed behind a sailboat. The beauty is, whenever the boat is underway, that puppy produces lektricity via the underwater propeller that drives the genraitor inside that little guy. I fergit what amount of power it produces, but at least 100 watts - maybe 200, depending on how fast that sucker spins.
What I have done is this: Mounted the unit (centered) inside a 12″ diameter galv conduit via hanging straps (and one anchor strap at the bottom). The conduit is 2′ long. Piled rocks on the side and in front of the conduit, and shaped them so that they would create a venturi. That forces the water thru the conduit at the highest plausible speed. Naturally, screens are placed at both ends of the conduit to keep debris and fish from entering.
We’ll see how it works. Won’t know till spring. It’s only a supplement to my grid, diesel, and solar sources. Best part, though, when that sucker is spinning, it is providing power to my battery bank - 24/7, rain or shine. Good for bout 4 months per year. Your crick be let you have at it 24/7/365.
Thanks Surfer. I’m currently reading a really good book by Scott Davis, Microhydro. Learning a lot, and is amazing how much power can be produced and stored, even with a relatively low flow volumn of water. Thanks again for your input.
Thank you all for lots of good suggestions in finding “the dream property” out in the country. Many ideas require time, and I wish I knew how much we had before a pandemic hits. Having a large family doesn’t make travelling back roads any fun. Nor looking at endless FSBOs. Right now my husband and I are trying to find other homeschooling families who are like- minded in this real estate effort. By pooling our financial resources we can increase our purchasing power or potentially be stronger bidders in land auctions/land grabs (locally here in Minnesota),and then subdivide the property. Suprisingly, there are quite a few other families who are interested in returning to the land, whether for hunting or hobby farming purposes, or those who just need more space for all the kids. Most want animals and need acerage to do it. Although BF hasn’t yet come up directly in the conversations we’ve had, my husband was surprised at how many feel “called” to emigrate from the city. Our next step is to send out a blanket email to the local homeschool co-ops and hold an informal meeting to garner interest in the endeavor.
Another source of info is a USGS map of the area in which you intend to locate. It’ll have the locations of all known water activity (lakes, ponds, rivers, streams, and even some springs) plotted. Also use Google Earth. It provides a space satellite view that can be zoomed in with remarkable clarity.
You might want to find out what rural areas they are going to use for “mass evacuation” of large cities.
prepmaniac:
say what? Whoa. There are rual areas for mass evacuations planned? Where does one find that info?
Minn Mom it was on another thread “of which the title escapes me” It was a seminar for the milatary if memory serves me. Made my hair stand on end when I saw it. But after some reflection I realised how unwrokable it would be esp during a pandemic. I believe that the idea originated with the threat of a terror attack that would render a city unsafe. Thats my quess anyway. Other wise its simply a ludacris plan.
Good luck with your endevor. For what its worth I think your doing the right thing BF or no.
janetn: thanks for the encouragement.
I don’t think it was for the military. It was at the University in Albany. It would give continuing ed. credits to doctors. It was for healthcare workers. Mostly in public health. That is the way I read it. It was about mass evacuation plans to rural areas. It was on another thread and had links to the site. It would be great if someone could attend and report back. I will look for the thread.
the Peak Oil comunities talks a lot about reloaction. Some seems to beliwe that a sharp rice in demand for resorses in combinaation with lesser supply wil be a kind of fast aproching crisis, I dont think so, it will be buisnis as usual with prices going up, and some goes down. But overalll all energy will be expensive, and then all kind of products. So no need to plan for panic. On the other hand the symptoms of energi shortness may well be dramatic. Like the european black out this weekend. It was triggerd by a ship that broke one of the supply cables.. (it was a norwegian ship…probably a kind of conspiracy from the canned fish industry agian ;-)
trying to be serious agian.. The acident happend in a cold period, and the chain effect was devastating. Only in the US have we seen this type of blackouts earlier. This has to do with low maintanece of lines, but most important, energy shortness.
In such a future scenario, relocation may be wise, a analyse will tell you that mowing into the central areas is just as wise as moving to the hills.. The central areas gives you walking/bicycling distance and good public transport, the hills,- food, and energy harvesting. A house in the central that is suited for energy production may be the perfect combination. Solar cells on roofs, exporting what you dont need. On the land, even not so fertile soil will be good, for instance hills that is diifucult to plow, but easy to grow fast growing energy forrest etc that you will sell to the local energy farmer.
Buying a house not to close to a creek, the sea and in areas with lack of rain is also wise. Global warimng will give flood, sea level rice and less/more rain with damaging potential.
Energy is essential for all long term planning. If I had the money, I would equip my vacation house with a full scale PV solar, when I was not there all the electricity produced would be exported via the grid.. That way my expenses would turn into a earinng. And my enegy needs would be good whne I used it, even in a emergency. But still to large investment for me as a student..
that was me ..
I thought so. ;-)
crfullmoon:
What is the name of the thread with the mass evacuation seminar?
I’m back. I’ll think about it and keep an eye open for it.
Ok; I remebered; someone spotted it when they were looking at a mass fatality planning course or so. (4th MFP thread)
Minneapolis Mom,on the question of finding good soil you need to go to the county Department of Agriculture office and buy a copy of the soil survey report for that county.These are incredibly detailed as to the soil potential for a given location-down to an acre or two.Have their pubications with you when looking.They also have a huge amount of free stuff.
We are looking at buying some farmland and building a concrete home on it for added security as our getaway/2nd home. I have a question about ground water.
We will need to dig a well. What are the chances the water will be diluted with chemicals from decades of using pesticides on the crops on the land above?
Thanks.
anonymous – at 11:29 was me
Minneapolis Mom -
I know you are mostly looking for farm land, but there are some small towns that offer free city plots. However I think you have to actually live there. For those looking to get out of the city maybe a small community is an option.
awty
Much depends on the depth of the well. Find a potential location. Use the tips suggested above (USGS maps, Google earth, soil samples, census stats, etc.). When you think you found the “spot” for your house, contact one of the local well drillers. Contact a coupla them. They shud know the area and can tell you what you need to know. Hint: Find a place that has a high output (GPM).
Udar You are partially right - you don’t want to locate directly next to a stream or river in a flood plain. However, if your house is located above the stream/river bed (in my case, the stream is about 50′ below the house elevation, but is within 100′ laterally of the house), you shud not have a problem.
Minneapolis Mom – at 00:45 What part of the country are you looking to buy?
crfullmoon:
Thanks. You are amazing.
anonymous:
Looking to stay within 2 hours of the Minneapolis/St. Paul area in any direction.
(prepmaniac,?! you just don’t know me well enough, because this is the internet. People who know me don’t listen to me)
And, AWTY, if Surfer – at 12:41 doesn`t work, find a waterwitch. They are amazing to watch, and a good one can really find the best place.
crfullmoon:
That is their mistake.
Cactus I agree. I’ve seen’em in action, and as silly as it sounds, they really do work.
Are we there yet – at 11:32
Your question touches upon an area in which I have worked for a number of years.
With a few exceptions, the only farm chemical you would likely find in your groundwater would be nitrates from years of fertilizing. (Although nitrates can be naturally occuring.) If the well is shallow, in sandy soil, and in the middle of cropland this would not be surprising at all. Elevated nitrates are primarily a risk factor for babies and pregnant women. Healthy older children and adults can consume fairly high nitrate levels without negative consequences.
There are other farm chemicals (such as atrazine) that can get into groundwater but it is not common widespread occurance. But it does happen.
What you want to find is an aquifer forty feet or more deep (a rough rule of thumb) with a confining layer of clay above it. The clay layer works to keep the nasties out. That is not to say a shallower well cannot be good, but by and large the deeper the well the better.
Contact a local well driller in the area, and a local office of your state environmental protection agency and visit with them concerning the availability and quality of groundwater in the area where you are considering building. Also, visit with any neighbors in the area with wells. Once you drill the well have the water tested by a state certified lab.
Hope this helps some.
Not exactly my dream safe house, but . . . .
In April, we bought an old unused (not used in over 40 years) commerical building in our small town. Only one block from our home, and 3 blocks from our business.
The price was amazingly cheap. 6,000 square feet for $2500.00. It needed new wiring, plumbing, sewer and a roof.
It’s a two story brick building, few windows on the ground floor, with 22 windows on the second floor. All but 3 of the windows on the second floor have been boarded up. It definitely looks abandoned and unused.
Of course, all of the locals know that it’s empty. Nothing of value stored here. We’ve told everyone that it’s going to be used as my DH shop when he retires.
We generated a lot of interest in the town when we first put out the story, but now it seems to be old new and of no interest to anyone. We’ve spend most weekends since April at the building repairing and painting. The doors have been wide open and everyone has come in to look and make suggestions.
We’ve repaired the roof and added security bars to all the downstairs windows and door and a new overhead door. It is almost a fortress now. To break in would be difficult.
We’ve moved in some of his equipment: table saw, drill press, grinder, etc. Besides reinforcing our story, these can be run with our generator.
Last weekend we quitely moved in two 1500 gallon water tanks. We picked up the tanks, and backed the trailer into the building and closed the overhead door. I don’t think that we attracted too much attention.
This isn’t the best safe house, but it’s something that we could afford, and it should be relative safe for a while.
For those interested in digging wells, or who already have a well - check out this place (simplepump.com). I’ve got two wells, and will proabably hook one of these puppies to each well. Plan to order today, unless anyone haz a better recommendation. Check out their catalog as well. Good info.
Okieman, Surfer and Cactus:
Many thanks for the great info!
Another question:
If you could build any type of home you wanted on several acres, what kind of house would you build as your safe house?
You mean like, low-maintenance, passive solar, with greenhouse, root cellar, and a defensible perimiter, in a democratic country with good human rights record, and a climate that can grow food? with a lot of storage, and a good library?… juggles coffee and checks thread title- no; this isn’t the Dear Santa thread…
crfullmoon – at 11:21
LOL, yeah just like that.
We were thinking of building in concrete (which with forms can be made to look like limestone) in a French country chateau style. Small main building with wings on both sides going out from the front to form a U. We thought the top of the U would be closed off with a wall with two large heavy doors that would remain open until we needed to sloe them off and isolate the inner courtyard and the approach to our home. We then thought about metal storm shutters for the exterior windows.
Whoops again:
until we needed to “close” them off and isolate the inner courtyard
You could be my architect anytime…
awty
A suggestion: If’n ya think that this is gonna hit hard and soon (see the Hong Kong thread for a quick reminder), ya might (will) be better off buying a house already in place that meets at least some of your quals, and then improve on it as time allows. Do it now. You can always relocate to a better spot later. Trying to find a location and then build “the perfect house” on a vacant parcel in the “perfect location” is probably going to take at least two years. I don’t think we have amount of time available.
Are We There Yet:
I have been waiting for a question like yours. Have you checked into straw bale construction yet? Fascinating stuff. Insulating with properly compressed straw bales (of any type)can obtain an astronomical R-value of like 60 or something. Plus, insurance companies readily insure them because they are almost fire proof. And, they are vitually sound-proof. I read a story of one woman who grew up in such a house in Oklahoma. She said they did not hear a tornado that passed over the farm until after it was all over and someone went outside to the barn.
I am not savy at posting links yet, but I have a website bookmarked in my favorites. It is the site of Camel Back Construction. Google searches are fun, too. Most straw bale homes are owner-built and off the grid. Some are built over cisterns and have elaborate rain catch systems (cool, huh?) Most bale homes built in Europe are still standing after 200 years. A few are hooked up to enough solar power to heat the hot water in their radiant floor heating systems year-round.
crfullmoon: LOL, I think that was exactly what I asked santa for!
Seriously, I agree with surfer and that it what our plan is. Another thing to consider, is to add an addition to the basement/cellar using the reinforced styrofoam blocks, that you then pour concrete into, to make your walls. Efficient and you could build incognito!
Oh, Santa… round house
crfullmoon: (laughing hysterically) You have a great sense of humor.
I gots ta laugh or I’m sure ‘nough goin’ ta cry
crfullmoon – at 14:35 Wow ! They built a hogan. Navajos have lived in them for a long,long while. Didn`t see if the door is facing East,to greet the morning sun,tho.
think the open section of the courtyard was South, to catch the Sun
If I had my druthers, I`d have either an adobe or hay bale house. They both work extremely well in my desert climate.
Minneapolis Mom - I’ve been reading your posts with great interest and would like to share a few observations that might be helpful to you. I don’t want to put you off your dream, so please don’t take offense.
I am a farm wife so I know a bit about the dream that you have. I live within 2 hours of the twin cities. The first thing I would recommend is having a big old heap of money because farmland of any quality isn’t cheap anymore. I got “lucky” and was born into a farm family, nowadays it really is almost the only way to go.
Back to the land is a wonderful thing, but you have to have certain skills or you’re wasting your time. Chances are, with only 20 or 40 acres, the only equipment that will work is very old and very small (big tractors don’t work well in small fields.) Mechanics are expensive, so you’ll want to know how to rip into an engine, repair a rear end, etc. ahead of time. Most farms need to have at least one tractor (preferably with loader, bale forks, duals, and snowblower), a plow of some sort, maybe a cultivator, a disc, planter, sprayer, combine and/or corn picker, maybe a baler, grain dryer of some sort, gravity boxes, grain bins, barns, machine sheds, possibly a silo, and so on.
For crops, you’ll need to know how to drive a tractor, plow a field, plant a straight row, and operate a combine. You would think that stuff is easy, right up until the first time that you actually try to do it. There is absolutely nothing worse than being the butt of neighborhood jokes because your rows are crooked.
For animals, you might picture an idyllic scene of mom and kids going out to milk the cow in the morning, chickens producing wonderful eggs, and cute little pink pigs. The reality is much much different. You spend your day up to your neck in crap, grease, dirt, and blood, and sometimes the cow or pig tries to kill you. I was nearly killed in August by a yearling heifer (it’s a funny story NOW.) If you want milk, you need a bull or AI (which may not be available in a pandemic), and bulls are mean as hell. Children shouldn’t work with the larger animals unless they know what they’re doing, and small children can’t even be trusted with chickens if they aren’t accustomed to them.
If you really aren’t interested in farming (producing some sort of commodity for money), but want to live a more home-grown lifestyle, please consider buying a smaller tract of land. It would be a lot cheaper, and less destructive to the agricultural segment of our state. I can’t tell you how many farms in our area are now 10 acre subdivisions that don’t grow or produce much of anything except horses, a garden, and a little bit of hay. Plus, if you or DH plan to commute to the cities everyday, it’s nothing but traffic jams and more pollution for everyone.
This is all just my opinion, and I’ll readily concede that my opinion may be wrong.
Wow, you don’t really think city slickers are hopeless haps, do you?
Nope, she’s telling it pretty straight, if in fact one is trying to farm for a living and not just as a prepping supplement to regular jobs or some such. You can learn, but it’s not easy without a mentor. Farming’s considerably more complicated than people tend to think.
Farm children also have a considerably higher accident and fatality rate, I recall reading somewhere pretty recently. Looking back at all of us running around my grandfather’s farm as children, I can recall a few potentially fatal accidents we narrowly avoided, and he had almost no sizable machinery except a tractor. Speaking just for myself, I narrowly avoided getting mauled by hogs (or so it seems in retrospect), and as a younger child got attacked by a rooster, who was scratching away at my luckily hooded head before my parents chased it off.
I don’t know if farm girl thinks that you, Minneapolis Mom, is a hopeless hap, but it’s fairly common for farm families to get new, and clueless neighbors. I mediated a dispute a year ago between a 3rd generation farm family with (and I quote the new neighbor) smelly moo cows, and said new neighbor. The new neighbor bought the farm, and admitted that they had smelled the cows during their pre-purchase visits. They just thought that the government would make the farmers stop polluting the air. We didn’t.
She did start by offering to help, and hoping that you wouldn’t take offense.
anonymous – at 21:23
“Farm children also have a considerably higher accident and fatality rate”
I worked (long time ago) for a one armed farmer. My gandmother remembers when he had his farm accident as a young man. Very dangerous work. He lived a long and good life though and could play a mean trumpet with one hand. He played at my wedding… God rest his soul. A very good man.
oh, and my friend’s husband ripped his thump off in a winch 3 years ago. It’s a hard life for sure.
Sorry, but bitter experience with new neighbors from the cities has taught me to assume and expect nothing. If this doesn’t apply to you, please disregard. My experience so far has taught me that people from the cities move out here and get one awful surprise. Most of the time it turns out that they don’t like us, don’t like the work, don’t like giving up their suburban/urban expectations, and certainly don’t want to adjust their beliefs to our realities. If you don’t fit this picture, please move out my way. If you know what kind of tractor you want to buy, I can probably help you find a good one. Heck, if you’ve got about a million bucks, I know of a 70+ acre parcel that’s up for sale right now. It doesn’t have a source of surface water but it was plowed just last week.
Even if you don’t do the large animals or have all that equipment, if there’s water and space to grow a family garden, isn’t a little farm better than a city? Having good neighbors would help in either case, but, IMO, there are a lot more people to be wary of in a city, especially with regard to fires and looting.
My idea wasn’t for earning money on a little farm, just subsistence, I guess.
Minn Mom ~
I’d take what farmgirl shared with you to heart and keep moving forward. I’m a suburbia girl and have been growing a garden here in suburbia and had chickens that I butchered in my back yard in protest of the Code Enforcement officer that slapped me with a fine because my neighbor got his boxers in a wad…
I’ve purchased a farm in the mountains…I’ve been educating myself for a long time now, and practicing with what little I could here in the suburbs…I have friends who have farms and it’s true when they say it’s ALOT of hard work. The flip side of the coin is, it’s the type of work that is more fulfilling and rewarding than any other I’ve ever done.
That kind of lifestyle isn’t for everyone…I agree with that. But for those like me, that spent alot of time soul searching, and who have come to the conclusion that there is no other life for them, need to just do it. Just because you or I or someone else hasn’t ever done it, shouldn’t stop us. As long as I’m going in *eyes wide open*, then it’s an educated decision and one that I personally don’t think I’ll regret.
Besides, the stories I have to tell already are absolutely hysterical. The ropes I’ve learned, I’ve learned by doing most times the wrong way first but the JOURNEY is something that holds much meaning and I can’t wait to finally move from the suburbs here to my new home in the mountains.
If that is the direction you feel led to go, then by all means, go for it.
Shad.
Allsyousguysand gals
If you want to be a farmer, have at it. My hat is off to you. My dad is an Okie. Got many relatives still living there. They are wheat farmers.
Butt, If’n you want to get thru this thing and be self sufficient while itsahappening (figger at least two years), buy some prop’ty that has a house plopped on it and already has all or most of the fixin’s you need. Think wells, criks, springs, streams, orchards, gardens. Already in place. That’ll get uthru. You don’t have time to browse. Act now. Do it right away. This stuff is cummin down the pike fast, in my estimation.
Your dream house possibly is already available, you just haven’t found it yet. If not, you kin build it later. Butt, your goal shud be to make it thru. You can shop for or build your dream house later. Believe me, speaking as a real estate broker, there will be ample selections after the fact.
farm girl (and others) have made some great points. Rural life is definitely not for everyone. There are bugs, smells (many of them NOT good), and just tons of hard, physical, dangerous work (I believe that OSHA lists farming as THE most dangerous occupation there is). If you have animals (ANY farm animals, from chickens to cattle) then there are NO days off… not for bad weather, not for vacations, not for emergencies, not for anything, unless you can get someone reliable to come in and care for your stock (it’s NOT like dropping Fido or Fluffy off at the kennel). If you are strictly into growing things, be prepared for early and late freezes, floods, hailstorms, wind, and all the other things can can completely destroy all your hard work (and investment) in a very short time. Some friends of ours bought 20 rural acres looking for an idyllic lifestyle. After a few short years they are ready to move back to the big city… the bugs are eating her alive, he is sick and tired of mowing acres of grass evey weekend, and the older they get the less fun it gets. Agriculture can be very rewarding, but one must go into it with both eyes open.
Amen, sista!
Been there,did that. Miss it at times,milk fresh from the Jersey cow, fresh eggs.But, right now, I do like the freedom to go where,and when I want, and don`t have to be home intime to milk.