Please don’t take offense! I am not trying to make light of an obviously serious situation. But as I have been stuck at home a lot in the last two weeks with sick kids and dh(you name it, we’ve had it. Dh has the Chicken Pox of all things right now!) I’ve been trying to think of some “upsides” to isolation:
- Teach my kids every possible game, how to cook and clean (seems we never have time and it’s “easier” to do myself - More time to read with my kids/teach my 5yo to read (he’s almost there) - Potty train my 2.5yo - Catch up on home projects, painitng, etc. - Get my house REALLY clean (wash baseboards, etc.) - Finally get all my pictures into photo albums - Master cutting my kids’ hair - Finally read all those great books I’ve been collecting but never have time to read - Watch all those “classic” movies I’ve always wanted to see (assuming Netflix is around!) - Catch up with friends/family on telephone/e-mail - Write that “family history” for my kids
As I said, I’m not trying to joke but just trying to find some positives - maybe as an attempt to not get to depressed/stressed! This of course all assumes we have power and I plan ahead to get “extras I need (eg. house paint).
Any other positive ideas out there?
Laura B
If you don’t have a piano, maybe you could get a keyboard (or even two), and teach the kids to play. Other instruments might be harder to teach, but a consideration too. Maybe you could get some books or tapes on a different language, and teach them that. I have also thought that diaries would be great. If they can’t write, you could write the entry.
lauraB – at 10:15
I’ve been thinking about that too. Did anyone put board games, crayons and coloring books on the list of “absolute essentials”?
The small handheld games you can get at Walmart for $10-$15 like Yahtzee, bowling, Soduku,Connect 4, etc… we’ve had our Yahtzee game for 4 years, it’s gone on every vacation with us and been used during typical illness isolation periods.. still on the same set of batteries.
I second JV’s idea of another langauage tapes or CD’s… if Internet is up and running we’ll use on-line resources to home school our middle schooler & high schooler. There’s always chores on the farm… stocking up on the “classics” for books at used book sales, as well as DVD’s (hoping for electricity on a regular basis). Sewing & quilting, scrapbooking, woodworking, photography, learning to cook with a solar oven and a propane grilll!
We also have had a run on bugs lately and then we lost power the other day (high winds). Really made me think and rethink some things. I thought someone’s “practice without power” exercise such a good idea to really help plan. It is going to be rough especially if we can’t go outside and a nightmare without power. It is appealing to think of having all this time to get things done and really spend time with the kids—too bad it will come at such a heavy price. I think printing off the articles on coping will be important. I think that even with plenty of food, activities the isolation and looming threat that lurks will take a toll on us.
Sorry, did not read that you were looking for the “upside” of isolation:o) I do think getting back to basics can be positive for a family—make you really think about what is important. I am so glad to be ‘prepping’ because even though it will be stressful at least we have had time to begin emotionally prepparing as well. So many will be caught off guard having not begun stocking up and thinking about how to cope.
You will soon lose the will to play games/learn new things/carry on as normal. People in isolation become very depressed and unable to cope in a short space of time. Other feelings will take over; fear, anger, boredom. Insomnia will soon take hold a close family members will cease to interact in the normal way. Those in isolation will also suffer acute anxiety and every cough or ache will be interpreted as symptoms of disease (in oneself and others). You will also obsess about the outside world and what is happening both nationally and locally. You will be fearful every time you hear a noise outside. In severe cases, those in your own household will become a threat to you, regardless of how protective you feel about them right now. Your diet will be compromised and your brain chemicals will change, creating mood swings and even greater depression. Even the smallest problems will be perceived as calamities. You will become lethargic and less likely to keep up personal hygiene. You will also be less careful and may take more risks. If communications, water and electricity are cut off, you will suffer from even greater feelings of isolation and fear. You may feel compelled to get out. You may be forced to go outside by need. Your supplies will run out sooner or later. You will be unlikely to cope with the severe illness or death of those in your household, however well prepared you think you are.
Anyone thinks that there would be any kind of upside to this is delusional.
Seems to me that the ability to identify upsides is one quality that will help determine who prevails in this particular survival of the fittest…
The usual sentimental ‘don’t give me any bad news, I’m a glass half full kinda girl’ crap. If we have a severe pandemic, it will be worse than our worst nightmares. You are not living in the real world.
I beg to differ, the human spirit has an amazing resiliency.
I figure that I’ll finally master calculus.
Yes, it would be worse than our worst nightmares. However history shows that people have survived their worst nightmares and I think looking at how those survivors coped would be helpful.
Anon 000 : you sound like a psychologist. And you are right. That’s why it is so important to prepare for this event. I mentioned this on another thread: keep family routines as usual. Force everyone to dress properly and lay down rules. Develop new routines. If the isolation is effective, deaths and disease are not to be expected.
I think establishing daily structure would be key to our family making it through a long isolation. That is, setting a specific daily schedule (as similar as possible to normal) to include “school,” playtime, exercise, meals, chores, family leisure time, etc.
Wow anon000. Could you possibly be more depressing and negative? I am not normally a very optimistic person, but as I said I am trying to at least think of a “less negative” side to all of this. If I don’t I will become depressed and anxious even before the shtf. All the wondering and “what-ifs” are stressful enough. If things are going to be as horrible as you predict, then why are you even bothering to prepare? Sounds like none of us will make it.
anon 000 - aren’t you just the little ray of sunshine? I think most of us here believe that even on a best case scenario, a pandemic will be horrible beyond belief, but that preparing is our best bet. After reading your “real world” assessment, are you suggesting that we just do nothing, since none of us will be able to cope with this? I think you might be under estimating the spirit of the human race just a tidge…and…I believe that if I ever get depressed about a possible pandemic, I will remember what you posted at 12:06, and be cheerful just to prove you wrong. I have every intention of surviving this and having a fatalistic attitude is not going to help me or my family in any way. I realize that I may not survive, but I’m darn sure not going into this or any other situation with the attitude that I’ve lost before I started.
I second the importance of “routines” so that everyone is kept on track. Schedule times on a calendar that all can see and tasks for timeframes. Schedule “interactions” so that people have to spend time together doing something constructive together. Mix up the interactions and activities.
Have your kids/spouse/friends…whoever will be there together… help develop a month of activities. Think of things by summer or winter seasons too. Include chores as well as fun things. Think of calendars that would involve electricity or lack of it. (Allow extra cooking and cleaning times without it.)
If you don’t have it already, setting up a webcam between you and distant family members and friends can really help pass the time and make everyone feel less alone in the world.
TIG - I love the webcam idea! Didn’t think of that one and the grandparents are far away so we likely wouldn’t see them for awhile.
Anon 000 Not a nice picture. I think I’m glad i don’t know you as you sound like a very un-fun person. But in the interest of looking at things from all sides - What experience are you basing this info on? Have you spent serious time in isolation? What was the reason for isolation?
I think it’s a really, really good idea to plan some opportunities for exercise. That will help keep everybody healthy and improve everybody’s moods. I have a long history of depression and work at home, so I know something about what can happen to your mood when you’re isolated. Exercise is a huge help! So I would suggest jumpropes, balls, maybe a game of Twister? I have an exercise machine, weights, and videos. I seem to recall seeing an exercise video that parents could do with their kids.
art is a great pasttime too…for all ages.
If we dont have a pandemic, I think I will invent one.. 6 months off the ratrace is sooo velcome ;-)
I think the point of isolation is to avoid the illness and the worst of the nightmare. There will be many who will not be so fortunate and the threat of illness,public unrest will be there and unavoidable and probably horrific. However, I would imagine there will be those who will be able to avoid some of the nightmare aspects by isolating—and isolation under the right circumstances certainly would not be the “worst nightmare ever”. Early American settlers/homesteaders certainly had no picnic but seemed to have survived and thrived.
I agree that being prepared, having a routine, creating family time, etc. etc. is what will keep all of us somewhat sane. The problem will be staying away from the TV and the news reports about what is going on around the world.
We were all glued to our TV sets during 9/11, and even though our individual lives may not have been touched or maybe we did not lose anyone in the towers, it still had an incredible effect on us in that we found ourselves glued to the TV watching day-in-and-day-out of human trajedy and horror. I think 9/11 will pale next to what we may all witness through our TV sets should the SHTF.
Unfortunately, I think the depression will come from what we are witnessing rather than being locked inside for up to six months - though, please, I am not minimalizing that either. I just think that being upset over being locked in will be minor compared to what we will watch others go through.
Janet, think of it this way, if TSRHTF (“r” = really), we may likely be without electricity…sparing your kids and yourself from having to see the worst the flu would have to offer.
It sounds wrong, but seeing the images of it occurring in other countries, to other people, is almost reassuring….it means it isn’t here yet. No news would make me more nervous…the “not knowing” what was going on with it would be excruciating.
How would we know when it was safe to “come out” again???
Two years ago as a result of hurricanes we were without power for over 2 wks. Since other people and businesses were also without power, I was off work for that period. We had no electric or running water, but had stored water that lasted us through most of that time. Using the stored water proved to be labor-intensive and normal chores therefore took more time than usual, which kept us occupied. Because we had no power and only candles/flashlights, we developed a routine of rising at sun-up and going to bed at sundown or close thereto — and after a week I actually felt better than I had in a few years, because I was getting lots more sleep. Made me realize that my normal routine of evening actitivies was leaving me marginally sleep deprived!
Actually, I think LauraB’s intro and the ensuing debate bring up an important question: What will the effects of isolation be on people? I think they’ll be mixed, with some people showing terrible effects, and others doing just fine. What factors will make isolation hellish, and which ones predict bad effects? I am currently rewriting my Flu Database proposal to reflect these questions. Someone needs to try to find out.
Anticipating the result, I think the critical factor that will determine whether you have a terrible experience in isolation, versus getting through OK, will be your outlook, as optimistic or pessimistic, and also whether you feel like you are in control of your situation. If you and everyone with you CHOOSES to be in isolation, then that will go along way to making it feel like you’re not imprisoned wherever you happen to be.
I have a link to a book which gives an example of a person with an optimistic outlook, who lived largely in isolation for over 30 years, the sort of outlook you’ll need to do well in isolation during a pandemic.
Cinda et al - “I think I’m glad i don’t know you as you sound like a very un-fun person” -not a very intellectual argument, but not surprising. Some of you here treat this potential catastrophe as a game. Like it or not, the scenario I spoke of above is almost certain to happen. Deal with it.
Albert, I agree, strict routine and a methodical approach is the only way to mitigate mental break-down in this situation.
What Anon 000 is referring to is the so called cabin-fewer.. A depression that occurs among prisoners and sailors.. In my view the isolation has to be realistic. Some small risk has to, and will be taken. Going outside in the streets in the early morning when few people there, stay away from crowds of people, being indoors where other people are etc.. Thats the main point of stockpiling, just to eliminate the need for shopping, and visits to the doctor and so on.. To do the society the favor of not getting in the way. using of the limited amounts of food and supplies..
I you are on the countryside, or in the suburbs with gardens, a physical isolation from people, (maybe still talking really loud across the fence) will prevent any depression from isolating. A time of general crisis is also very helpfully in preventing boredom…
anon zero zero zero, history shows people persevere throughout situations even worse than the one we’re about to face. An adaptability even greater than this bug we’re afraid of is one of the things that has made humans come through these things.
Yes, of course it’s going to be awful. So, what are you doing to help prevent the hellish suffering of your friends and loved ones? Or even those poor people who you don’t know?
anon 000 - I repeat - are you suggesting that we do nothing to prepare, since according to you, none of us will be able to cope? I will be happy to provide an “intellectual” argument, and I assure you that I am not treating this like a game. I will, however, argue that having a sense of humor and a good attitude goes a long way in facing a number of life’s challenges, the big ones along with the small ones. Other than sticking to a strict routine, do you have any other concrete suggestions? Is not a methodical approach to preparing for the mental well being of our families important to circumventing mental break-down? Strict routines may indeed be vital, but the old adage “all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy” would be well heeded during a time of extreme stress, would it not?
Urdar: Well put! It is not like we are locking ourselves in some dark cell. It will be very, very difficult for sure but I don’t think we will start to eat our young!?!
Any time you anticipate and plan for a rough time ahead, you reduce your anxiety greatly. Preparing, planning, and having a good mental outlook will definitely help. We can’t kid ourselves into thinking that we won’t be depressed or anxious. We just need to know that it is temporary; we are prepared; and saving our families is the number one priority. People have survived pandemics in the past and so will we.
I echo your thoughts on being outside where you can still distance yourself socially, yet eliminate feelings of “cabin-fever”. Heck, outside of work, shopping and the gym, I spend most of my day socially distant from most people, except my family. I will miss all of these gatherings fiercely, but I don’t think it will throw most into a depression to the lengths described in above entries.
I have so many things to do- other than housework- I’m not sure where I would start. I’m always wishing for more time to devote to my crafts, cooking, and garden. My vacations now are in no way a vacation cause I’m always trying to cram so much into them. I wind up exhausted by the end of the 2nd weekend and I don’t want to go to work Monday just to take a day off from my week off!! In 2000 I was out of work for 5 months after a serious nervous breakdown/PTSD issues. My husband and daughter were both working and daughter was also in school. I spent most of my days alone. It was very hard, but after a few weeks I found that all my creative energy that has been pent up inside me for years finally was able to be channeled productively. It’s so hard to sit down to a project when you know you’ve only got an hour- or less- I had all day and all night and I made so many neat things with beads and bits and pieces I’d picked up in the woods and on the beach, seed pods and shells, driftwood and such. That made me feel much better about myself. I also spent a great deal of time in my garden and in the woods with my plant identification books (and berry basket)learning what was what and what is edible in my “backyard”. I don’t think that the beach and woods will be a good place to be if the birds are spreading the flu, but there are still so many things for me to do. I have a loom that needs a few repairs that Hubby can do and then I can weave for hours if I want to. I plan on laying in lots of wool for weaving and yarn for blankets and all sorts of craft supplies for myself and daughter. Lots of different spices and interesting meal components for meals that take a while to put together that I wouldn’t normally try. Lots of new cook books and craft books for things I’ve wanted to learn. Hubby loves to build models so i’ve stashed some of those for him. There will be gardening and still will be yard care and house maintinence (I like the idea of getting paint ahead of time. Hubby and I have spent hours in companionable silence while painting our house, inside and out, and it wants some new colors these days.) Hubby is a carpenter and likes to make jewelry boxes and such and has all his tools and a generator if we need it. Daughter had mentioned getting some language CDs to learn a language. She wants to learn to sew and weave also. There are lots of books to be read and lists of ToDos to be made for after it’s safe to go out again.
In no way do I think this situation will be enjoyable-at least not in the sense of the word as we now use it, but we can only try to make the best of it. For many families it might be the only time they ever spend together for more than a weeks vacation. There could be some real surprises there. I think it will be very difficult for many people. Myself- I don’t care to mingle much, but hubby and daughter are very social people and they will both suffer from lack of being with people. If the internet stays up that will help a great deal for her. Hubby is a musician and will really miss playing with his band.
But if we make it through- think how much we will have learned about ourselves and our families- about all the hobbies we love and new ones we may take up. Maybe about the easiest way to do laundry and cook with no power. Maybe for real, what it was like for our grandparents and even some of our parents if they were born long enough ago. Maybe we won’t want to go all the way back to “today”. Maybe some communities or extended families will come out of this as stronger units who work together. I hope we don’t have to find out- but if we do- lets try to be as positive as the situation allows
anon 000: Thank you for your comments. Your words are not easy to contemplate, but forewarned is forearmed. We who are caregivers have yet another skill to master before TSHTF…the emotional and psychological well-being of loved ones during a disaster. It would be helpful if you would stop using sarcasm (“you are not living in the real world”); our real worlds are the only ones we know to date. We are learning as fast as we can, in anticipation of the real world we may be faced with.
anon000
Cinda et al - “I think I’m glad i don’t know you as you sound like a very un-fun person” -not a very intellectual argument, but not surprising. Some of you here treat this potential catastrophe as a game.
I’m not an intellectual person- at least I don’t think I am. Maybe in some obscure areas that most people would be bored discussing- but really I think I’m just your average person- like the majority of people- trying to plan, with no experience to fall back on, the best way to deal with an unprecidented - at least in my life time- situaton. However- you are very wrong in thinking that we unintellectual average people think this is a game.
I don’t think it will be a game. I think it will be hell.
I’ve lived without power and “running” water-no conveniences but a battery powerd radio, for a fairly extended time- 3 months is a long time for average Americans I think- in the desert in New Mexico, and that as a teenager. It was very very hard- but we did it. I now have most of the “housework skills” necesssary to live without power (I’ve never made soap from wood ash though and I’m sure I’m rusty on alot of things- that was 30 years ago) and believe me the corner of a reservation in the desert with only the desert sand and mesas and sky and each other to look at is pretty damned isolated. We made do. We certainly were not experiencing all the nastiness you described. I recall we went into town once for some grain. Just once. It was such a strange experience and we didn’t like it. Coming back to life in New England was very difficult for me. But I got through it. Positive attitude is the only thing that will bring anyone through any difficult times that are not medically terminal. Been through hellish times, been through excrutiating depression that I couldn’t understand. I’m still here. Bright eyed and bushytailed and ready to try to overcome whatever challange life has to offer. I may lose- but I’ll go down fighting.
You still have not qualified your previous statement. On what experience do you base your rather glum predictions of how average people will react to isolation?
Anon 000: maybe you could read Anne Franks diary during your isolation and learn from her and her family because they lived a lot longer than 3 months in isolation and also in extreme fear. Do you have children? You owe it to them to keep a positive attitude, but that does not mean that you can not be realistic about the situation. I think Laura B is realistic about the fact that you have to spend endless hours together so why not make the best of it. I plan to.
This is not scout camp. It will be about death, pain, loss, the potential collapse of society, having no control over your life, uncertainty about the future, living through something devastating and incomprehensible that may last for up to two years, not knowing where your food and water is going to come from when yours runs out, facing the fact that those closest to you may die a terrible death (and without medical care), hearing about tens of thousands or millions dead, going without essential utilities, watching terrible things happen right outside your door, the collapse of financial markets, fearing your neighbours, fearing strangers ….
‘Making do’ and being ‘bright eyed and bushy tailed’ are not really going to help in this situation.
At no point did I say that one should not prepare. Neither did I say that everything is futile. We have to try, but we also have to prepare for lives that will be changed forever if we live through a severe pandemic. I also believe that most will not be able to self quarantine for as long as they think.
anon 000 - I did not say that you said one should not prepare - I asked if you were suggesting this - once more, do you have any concrete suggestions as to what we can do to better prepare ourselves for the horrors that may lie ahead?
Cinda: milions of people live ordinary lives in areas with birdflu, no one gets infected by walking in the forrest. Its a birds deasese. It is not easaly to get infected. A new strain, a human one will not be present in birds, In a pandemic the birds will have just as much trouble getting the virus from us, as we today have from them. Its a minimal risk. We are not the same speeces. Please all read the science behind this virus, befor you decide to end the world.
Anon: yes, all of those things might happen. They might not. H2H might not ever happen and things will go on as before (unless global warming kills us next). But to have such a negative attitude is truly defeating. As I said before, if I don’t try to keep a more positive spin on things I might stress out of my mind before anything even happens. Lighten up!
Urdar - NO - sorry to butt in, but I believe it is Anon 000 who is ending the world as we know it, not Cinda -
LauraB, I’m one of the more skeptical posters here and I believe that a pandemic is highly unlikely, but possible. If it does happen, it will have absolutely nothing to do with one’s attitude and being an optimist or pessimist will make no difference whatsoever.
anon 000 - and the suggestions from you are ?????
PS - ‘spinning’ is what happens when politicians and organisations lie to us. If you want to delude yourself, carry on.
I don’t think those that know me would tell me to ‘lighten up’ - I have no problems with my career or personal life that would suggest a negative outlook.
anon 000 - do you have any problems answering direct questions? Please - if you are so darn sure of the gloom and doom forecast - what suggestions do you have? If you don’t have any, fine, but be so kind as to say so.
Watching - other than preparing as much as possible to mitigate as any risk that we can, I don’t think that there is much that we can do. No one has responsibility for this, and no one can do much to prevent it. It is natural to want to control our lives but this may be one time that we simply can’t.
anon 000 - thank you for answering - I will continue to prepare for a worst case scenario then - but I shall do so with a cheerful and positive attitude, I can control that part of my life.
somewhere yesterday as I was surfing the net, I came across a story on corprate america starting to gear up for the Bird flu. Turner networks is working on a robotic feed tape machine to load and play three months of tapes without human intervention so that when everybody is sick at home with the flu, the Cartoon network will function non-stop for all the kids stuck at home when the schools close.
I remember reading in a story about the Donner party that was snowbound that the women actually did better in surviving than the men. Although starvation was a factor, many of the men died because they simply had no focus and no hope. The women were busy caring for children and managing what meager resources they had. How we do will be affected more by our mental outlook than our physical well-being. I think some people will be devastated and others will emerge stronger than they ever thought they could be.
Just roll over and play dead is not an option as a mother of 3 young children. Maybe we can not control this situation but we can control our attitude. If the situation is going to be that there is nothing we can do than just let us be with our board games and crayons. I took care of the important stuff so at least I did what I could do so I have peace of mind and will not bother my little ones with negativity. Maybe you cannot imagine this but holding on to the small, unimportant stuff is what keeps you going. Come to think of it: let’s go back to Aldi for some more chocolate!
In my country we say: people suffer most from expected suffering.
yes. pessimism will do us no good, I agree on that. I was only pointing at a scenario where both bird and humans was easily spreading a human virus, that would be a the “end of the world” scenario. And it is often repeated here in this forum.
H5N1 spreads easily among water-birds, and in the drinking water for other birds. because its a virus that is adapted to birds. A human version that maybe one day will emerge from a bird into one or more unlucky humans , for then start to spread easily among people will no longer be the same virus, and will not infect birds just as easily as among humans. Im am no expert, but this is the science part of the wiki, that people should read. This wiki is about sharing facts, and to plan for the worst, and hope for the best.
Hillbilly Bill - bless you for your vote of confidence. I think that there are many, many things in life that make some people while they break others.
The problem of living in houses with common stairs (i wold not even think of entering a elevator during a pandemic) to get in and out of your flat will be the largest challenge for those who want to “human isolate” them self.. You would need a lot of masks etc do to that, And even opening your door into that common area will have the potential for blowing viruses into your “safe flat”
There is a solution to this.. Using the knowledge that is available in the wiki, together with cooperation with neighbors.. My proposal: 1 open the bottom and top windows in the stair.. this will create a thermo drag like a chimney that circulates the air. 2 wash with bleach solution everyday..(no vacuum cleaners) this will remove all dust that virus can be floating on. 3 make a doormat with bleach to step in at the entrance, add bleach everyday since it vapors.. 4 wash anything that people touch with bleach to alcohol, 5 if you have a small room inside the entrance, make sure the door is closed to reduce drag, 5 use plastic to create a simple airlock in your entrance door. 6 use rain suit with hood, it can be sprayed with bleach solution from a spray bottle.
Also put a hot-air-fan in the stair, it is a cheap way to clean the air and will increase the thermo drag, making the air circulate even more.
All this efforts will drasticly lower the virus load, and of course a poster with hygien and cough rules are also smart. Teaming up with the comunity is the only way.. (but maybe not tell them you got 6 moths of food under your bed..
anon 000:
I admire you enormously. How fearless of you to present the ‘garden implement’ as the dirty, dented, deadly ‘spade’ it really is.
You were well aware of the unpleasant reaction you would receive and willing to endure it for the sake of those who might be willing/able to take in at least part of your well-based and well-intentioned warning.
Other readers should realise you are taking the ‘educational’ approach you have, coming from the position of those who warn of the extreme consequences on individuals and society of an extreme pandemic—’55% of affected dying’, etc etc.
Good luck to you and yours. You’ve done your bit to help— and maybe even more than those ‘sharing recipes’ or making wordy comments…like me!
Sorry, my set-name popped off for some reason! Above long winded Anon was me!
strange story from WW2.. the nazis arrested the radicals.. they were sent to the camps.. Radicals in those days just like now ;-) liked to drink the wine and smoke the tobacco.. Physical training was bad for attitude and most of them were skinny. On the same prison train was members of the quisling police force, they had been arrested, but did not understand why. They were men in their best age, strong and fit..
Guess witch group survived in the long run… Its all about attitude.. If you know why, how and what to expect, your chances are better :-)
Attitude has an enormous impact on the outcome. Just ask any prisoner of war. Senator McClain’s book went into great detail on how you could almost determine who would survive being a prisoner of war and who would not (attitude and outlook and staying mentally fit).
I agree with so many of the statements that have to do with surviving for yourself and your children. It is an incredible driving force that makes us want to protect those we love. If you have a lot to live for, you will survive the ordeal. Those that don’t may not. I am not saying that those with a positive attitude will not get the flu; only that those that have the best outlook will survive the ramifications of a pandemic.
“You will soon lose the will to play games/learn new things/carry on as normal. People in isolation become very depressed and unable to cope in a short space of time. Other feelings will take over; fear, anger, boredom. Insomnia will soon take hold a close family members will cease to interact in the normal way.”
The grownups here aren’t going to have a problem staying in our OWN homes, with our OWN families, for a couple of months.
Anon @ 1718
Scout camp? You presume much- you have no idea what I was doing in the desert for 3 months- nor do I intend to take the time to inform you. I seriously doubt you would understand it. You come across as having decided to be a miserable individual and I wish you luck with that. My time is too precious to waste on incorigible people.
Urdar @ 1725
“Please all read the science behind this virus, befor you decide to end the world.”
Excuse me???????
Where did I DECIDE to end the world. I was actually very pleased to read your post as I was under the impression- from reading many other posts, such as many of the news posts- that avian flu could be caught by exposure to droppings of infected birds- which I could come in contact with while crawling around in the woods looking for - whatever I might be looking for that particular day- do I understand from your post that this is not the case? I want to be certain.”
Im am no expert, but this is the science part of the wiki, that people should read.”
I can “read the science” till the cows come home. My poor unintellectual brain can not comprehend about 95% of it. I am not science minded. Never was. It confounds me. Its another language. I watch the wiki for people like you who can translate it into something average people- who make up the majority of this country, if not the world, can understand. I think you are able to take all the “big words” and make them into something simple to comprehend. Not many are wiliing, or able, to do that. But please don’t, just because I don’t understand the big words and all those far reaching theorys- speak down to me. I may not be as intellectually adept as you- but I am far from stupid.
I am a woman who has acquired an unusual skill set for this day and age through some very unusual experiences who is determined to do the best I can with the skills I have to get my family through this.
No one will ever make me believe that a positive attitude will not make that easier. I do have considerable experience with that particular style of coping with the most unthinkable situations.
how about an astronaut on his round trip to mars, now that’s what i call isolation.
If we have to self-quaratine for 6 months, I just might get caught up on my Honey-Do list.
Seriously, it will take some work to change habits and schedules, but this will be a challenge just like so many others we have faced. No different than a new job and a new baby at the same time, and probably easier.
The Importance Of Attitude Under Adversity
What will make the difference is that which set apart the pioneers that settled the American west: a fierce, and tenacious will to live and conquer the obstacles set before them. The willingness to endure any and everything that came along. The undaunted courage to persevere and preserve the lives of those they love.
If anyone wants to try to understand the psyche of Americans of the past, and a significant number of those of the present, they must factor in this indominable will to survive and succeed. Many of the postings on the gun threads of this forum was not so much a love of guns and violence, but rather a fierce and consuming determination to come out of the other side. This willingness to protect our loved ones at all costs is our heritage and our duty.
For those that isolate themselves and evade the flu, attitude will not be a part of the equation for survival. Attidue will be the sum total determining who remains and who falters.
<sound of soapbox scraping across the floor to be stored away for another day>
Anon 000 is making everyone here think. He or she is right. Completely.
If you think you will be able to be cheerful and functional during much or most of the event, you will find yourself in shock when you have a hard time getting out of bed in the morning, the kids haven’t stopped crying for four days straight, your husband has threatened to kill that damn dog if he pees on the floor once more…… If you know it could be bad, you can better prepare yourself ahead of time.
I didn’t think things were going to be ‘uncomfortable’ when I went into labor, despite what a couple of asshole doctors wrote in their books. I knew it was going to be the worst pain of my life, I could die, it was going to take all the strength I had, but guess what? I have THREE kids! We women know what we are headed for after that first baby, but we still have the strenght of spirit to get through it again and again. Same with this!
Read some books about what holocaust survivors did to get through their time in the concentration camps. Some went all out loony. For some, that looniness ended up costing them their lives, for others it equipped them to get through despite what was happening all around.
Like with every aspect of this ordeal— plan for the worst, hope for the best! Know you may experience everything that Anon000 wrote. It’s very likely to be true for the majority of us for at least part of the time. If you know it’s ‘normal’ for that to happen, it can help you know it’s to be expected and you can still have the fight left in you to get to the other side.
It’s not negative thinking…it’s honesty in the light of a life changing event. Know thy enemy!! In this case, isolation and all it’s buggaboos is the enemy. Think. Prepare. Plan. Don’t expect something to be better for the duration than is reasonable.
What would we think of people who knew their neighbors might be dying and they were busy playing board games and hoping for a yahtzee all the while? Try to keep your spirits up and bolster your childrens hope. But allow yourselves and your children the right and freedom to cry, grieve and be sorrowful. It is part of being a human being.
Someone gave me this to read. I do not know who wrote it, but seems fitting for this thread and one I try to live by:
“The longer I live, the more I realize the impact of attitude on life. Attitude, to me, is more important that facts. It is more important than the past, than education, than money, than circumstances, than failures, than successes, than what other people think or say or do. It is more important than appearance, giftedness or skill. It will make or break a company…a church…a home… a team. The remarkable thing is we have a choice every day regarding the attitude we embrace for that day. We cannot change our past…we cannot change the inevitable. The only thing we can do is play the one string we have, and that is our attitude. I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% how I react to it. And so it is with you…we are in charge of our Attidues.”
Flourbug, Hillbilly and Okieman- enjoyed your comments very much and agree. Planning + determination makes us strong. the Wiki gives us the edge that we will need to survive and then make the best of the outcome. I trully believe that. I also believe that in the worst of times that helping others is the key to salvation. So while we play board games, cook, plant, split wood, do laundry, teach our children, and all the other chores, we need to know what we are doing to help the situation. Without that we have indeed lost our minds.
My vote is to put all our energy and resources to work right now to get as many people as possible ready for this thing. Then, when the time comes, we do whatever it is we need to to protect ourselves and get through the required isolation with our body and souls in tact. That way, we will be able to again put all our energy and resources back into helping out others and the community.
Whenever I find myself leavening myself with merciful denial, I remember that, in Washington state, part of the pandemic plan is for bodies to be buried in back yards, as there will be no way to pursue our customary funereal methodologies. I think about digging a grave, not to make myself sad, but to steel myself. A pandemic would test those who remain unlike anything ever did. Most of us have never lived through a cataclysmic event such as a pandemic, World War, concentration camp or nuclear attack. We delude ourselves if we think there is anything good in it. The vast majority of those that lived through the 1918 pandemic couldn’t bear to speak of it, it was that awful. It’s hard to imagine, day after day, a mounting death toll with unburied bodies, the perishing of friends and family. Read Barry’s book if you haven’t yet done so. Imagine it happening. Then prepare. You will understand better how to prepare, both physically and mentally.
I have lived through curfews, strikes, floods, periods without electricity, gas, water, telephone, internet. I have had guns pointed at me by nervous soldiers and had two attempts of armed robbery at our house in Africa. I have spent three days with a broken down vehicle in the middle of nowhere in Botswana. And I have killed a five foot snake in our house in Zambia. None of the above compares with the situation that might occur if an inflenza pandemic will force us to stay indoors for months, completely relying on previously stocked goods, hearing news of massive deaths and unrest everywhere. I am therefore preparing not only practically but especially mentally for this event, hoping that it will never happen.
Eyeswideopen - I agree that we must put ourselves through the very difficult mental exercises of imagining the worst possible aspects of this disaster. People need to actually close their eyes and see themselves going through the motions of their worst imaginings. Perhaps if we do this, our minds will be better equiped to handle the situations we may face since it has already “been” there so to speak. This may also allow us to keep control of our attitudes and the mental choices we are left to make as we ride out this awful and scary event.
Eyeswideopen: Yes I’ve read Barry’s book, but also heard about it first-hand. They did not live in the world that we do now. They did not expect each child to grow up to adult-hood. They actually expected DEATH! The survivors were a bonus. And that is what we are up against. And leavening is for bread.
Dear anon 000- Ok- The survivors may come through this crazy (or not) but come through this we WILL. We are all descendents of survivors. Things are seldom as good as we hope or as bad as we fear. The people planning and trying are the ones who are going to rebuild society someday. So cut ‘em some slack.
kc: Actually, many of the survivors of the 1918 pandemic did come through it with mental disturbances, and not necessarily just from the horrors. The virus itself left very unfortunate mental sequelae due to brain infection. It would be a very different world, even for those lucky enough to survive.
I don’t think anon 000 is doing anything but trying to help folks face this squarely, without delusions. I read his/her comments as actually quite compassionate in nature, as he/she gives no quarter to denial. Denial kills. The truth shall set you free.
Everyday, and in practically every community of any size around the world, there are people who snap due to stress. Spousal abuse is endemic in many parts of the world. Child abuse far more common than generally perceived. There are people who are overwhelmed by their circumstances, or under the influence of drugs or alcohol, or who are just simply prone to violence, that do harm to others. Physically and psychologically.
None of these things will disappear during a pandemic. Many, I suppose, who are teetering on the edge now, may fall into the abyss. I expect domestic violence to increase. Unhappy marriages will deteriorate further. And the rate of suicides and homicides will probably go up.
That said, it certainly won’t happen to everybody.
There will be couples who will be strengthened by working together during a pandemic, and grow to appreciate and love each other more. Families who will grow closer for the experience, regardless of how horrible it may be. And even neighborhoods and communities that will forge new, and stronger ties.
I’ve seen both happen.
At the age of 30, my 2nd wife and I decided to buy a sailboat, quit our jobs, and sail off into the sunset. Neither of us had much money, mostly because of our FIRST marriages. <g> So we bought the cheapest and smallest sailboat we could find.
We joined an itinerant society of cruisers, and for two years hopped from anchorages (and occasionally marinas) all along the Florida coastline. We met, and became friends with hundreds of other cruising couples. We learned a lot about relationships, cramped quarters, and stress.
Living aboard a sailboat may sound idyllic, but it comes with certain disadvantages. Almost no electricity, no A/C, small, cramped berths, no standing headroom, a very basic (and oft times boring) mealplan. Not even a flush toilet or a shower. Horrors, we didn’t even have a computer!
In our boat, which was only 23 feet in length, there was about as much living space as two phone booths laid horizontally side by side. We often spent weeks without going ashore.
We loved it. We grew closer, stuck together 24/7 in that cramped, uncomfortable little boat, than we ever could have in a house where both of us trotted off to work each day.
But we met other couples who did not fare so well. In fact, many cruising couples who seemed to be happy ashore, broke up after a few months living together on a boat. Often couples would reach a crisis point after a major storm. The stress of nearly losing your boat, and thinking you might actually die during a hurricane, can change things over night.
Go to any cruising marina, any major anchorage, and you will find boats with a For Sale’ sign hanging from them, a legacy of broken dreams and probably being sold to settle the divorce.
Simply put, there will be individuals, couples, and families who are cut out for this sort of thing, and there will be those who will crater.
The trick is to become a member of the first group. <g>
Some tips, if I may.
First, try not to lock yourself up with people you despise. If your marriage is bad now, if your kids drive you nuts, and if you spend your days thinking about escaping: either get counseling or get out now. Seriously.
Second, don’t expect your spouse, kids, or significant other to have done everything right prior to isolation. You won’t have, neither will they. If come a pandemic, you discover that your spouse forgot to buy Soy sauce for the rice, get over it! I’ve seen couples bicker and fight over the silliest things, and it’s often the little gripes that fester the most.
Third, Cross training is important. Cruising couples who did well could both cook meals and change the oil in the engine. Both could handle the boat. Those couples where the guy sailed and the gal did galley duty were doomed from the start. The non-sailing entity lived in perpetual fear that the sailing partner would fall overboard, or be injured, and they’d be stuck far out at sea with no clue. The sailing partner would grow exasperated at their partner’s incompetence.
Fourth, don’t shout, no matter how dire the situation. Aboard a boat, often the captain will bark orders to his crew. The less confident he (or she) is in their orders, the more likely they are to raise their voice. Hurt feelings abound, and mutinies often erupt. For inter-room communication, get a pair of cheap walkie talkies. Use them.
Fifth, and this is very important. Think of your family unit as a team. A combat platoon, who always have their buddy’s back. As a medic, the most important thing I carried on my rig was my partner. Ask any medic, any cop, and they will tell you that their partner is a member of their family.
Sixth, communicate. Talk about your fears, don’t hide them. Find work-arounds now, not later. Find out each other’s strengths and weaknesses. Change those you can, accept those you cannot. If someone in your group needs meds for anxiety, get them. If someone can’t handle alcohol, don’t let them have it (even if it’s you!).
Seventh, keep your sense of humor. Don’t ridicule other’s, but make fun of yourself, or the situation. Encourage other’s to do the same. It is the ultimate stress reliever.
Eighth, try to find some `personal space’ for each family member. Everyone needs a retreat, even if it’s nothing more than a personal radio/cd player with headphones. Books, games, cd’s, whatever works.
Ninth, decide on a chain of command. Every boat needs a captain. Pick one. There will be group decisions of course, and a good captain will want input from his team, but someone needs to be in charge. You can rotate this position, swap days, whatever. But committees during a crisis can dither when decisive action is required.
And lastly, decide right now that your ultimate goal is not your personal survival. Your goal is the survival of the people in your group. Your spouse, your kids, even that lazy no-good brother-in-law. If you’re a lone wolf, go it alone. Otherwise, accept that you exist primarily for the common good of your group. Try to instill that attitude in every adult in your family unit.
I suspect 90% of the folks on this forum have what it takes. I see strength here, not weakness. The fact that you are planning today is the best possible sign. There will be obstacles. There will be bad days, perhaps even tragic ones. It will not always be easy or pleasant. I think we all understand that.
But most of the time, the right attitude, and proper preparation, will get you through.
Fla_Medic,
When you get ready to write your book, I think we are all signed on to buy it.
LOL, Thank you Melanie. When it’s finished, You, Dem, and Pogge will get a signed complementary copy. ;)
Go for it Fla-Medic!!!
How do you follow that? LOL
I think one big issue for a lot of people will be lack of freedom to do what they want. You may say now “oh I never go out anyway - I live in virtual isolation” but the point is you still have the freedom to do so if you wish. I live on a small island and every year we have a number of people who choose to move here. A large number of them have gone by the end of their first winter. We’re not particularly isolated but, if the weathers bad, the mail and papers don’t get in, planes don’t fly so you can’t leave the island, the shops usually run out of certain things a couple of days before the cargo boat comes in. They might not particularly want to get off the island or buy a paper, but it is the fact that they CAN’T that almost always leads to problems. Oh yes and I agree with Fla-Medic, a large percentage of those that stay get divorced quite soon as well!! I don’t perceive the problem with being with the details of what projects you have in store - just the freedom to make decisions.
just tuppence worth
Hoggie, you are absolutely right. The lack of freedom to choose what you can do, and when you can do it, will likely be very tough on people. That’s one of the reasons people don’t like prison. <g>
Something else that needs to be considered. SAD. Seasonal Affective Disorder. When people isolate, particularly those who shutter their windows and refuse to go outside, the incidence of this mental disorder will skyrocket, even during the summer.
SAD has been linked to a lack of sunlight, and hence, an overproduction of melatonin. It is far more common in the higher lattitudes, where winters are long, and sunlight is at a premium. Simply put, our circadian rhythm is screwed up, and the results can be dramatic.
For some people, it presents as `cabin fever’. But for other’s, it can cause deep depression. Even suicidal thoughts. Some people seem fairly immune, while others can develop symptoms very quickly.
For those of you who go thru a depression each winter, you might want to consider looking into the high intensity full spectrum lamps.
More information at:
BTW, Hoggie, your island sound like a nice place to ride out a pandemic. <g>
Correction: I should have called SAD a `mood disorder’, not a `mental disorder’. Figured I’d better catch it before someone else did! <g>
Fla_Medic: Thank you for your eloquent addition to this conversation. I find it especially helpful to recognize that the group has to work and behave as a “team”… I suspect that giving team members (even older children) jobs for which they are responsible and which are important to the overall functioning of the team will be important for team cohesion and to keep everyone busy. I also definitely agree with your comments about cross-training, which needs to not only include spouses but older children as well. My 13-year-old son would of course rather spend his hours in front of the PlayStation2, but this winter learned to chop wood and how to run the woodstove. My son and 8-year-old daughter can now bake bread and make other meals from our food storage supply. They think it’s cool that they are learning stuff beyond what their peers can do.
What a great message Fla-Medic. That’s what we were looking for: realistic but in an active, positive, way. I enjoyed very much reading it.
I also know from experience that if you have a strong relationship with husband and family, it will only get better during hardship. We live abroad since 1989 (orig. from Netherlands) and moved every two years to a different country (some 3rd world). Since then we have grown so much together and made these experiences even better. It is definitely not for all couples! Of course we had plenty of bad experiences! Back then they seemed huge problems, some of them life threatning (correct spelling??), now we think of them and say: wasn’t that something? My kids learned different skills, we have lived in small hotelrooms for months together, not knowing the language, out of money (because banktransfer got messed up!), to dangerous to go outside, husband traveling all the time, strange diseases,etc. Attitude is very important and I totally agree with the preparations that Fla-Medic suggests.
My suggestion is seriously: try to make photo’s or film of day to day experiences, if out of power drawings and dairies. Registrate the good times and the bad times because that’s life! It’s amazing how quickly we forget.
Fla_Medic,
While you’re in the process of writing your book, would you be willing for all or part of your comments at 06:03 to quoted be in a book that is getting close to done - namely “The Bird Flu Manual” [working title] by Woodson, Jodrey, & Stewart? You could think of it as pre-publication publicity. Your “back story” shows that you have the lived experience to justify your recommendations.
Here’s the final paragraph (in the current draft) of the chapter I contemplate quoting you in:
The members of the Group have come together to support each other during a time of great danger. Back in 1776, the Founding Fathers of the American Revolution pledged their “lives, fortunes, and sacred honor” to their cause. Similarly, each Pandemic Survival Group has an overarching goal that all members have committed themselves to. You may find that some meaningful reminder of this at the beginning or end of each Group meeting will help to strengthen the “team spirit” of the people in it.
Fla-Medic - it could be very good or it could be very bad!!
Because all our food comes in on the boat, we could run short very quickly. The fuel boat relies on having a pilot to come in - there’s only one pilot on the island! etc etc. Very little real health care. I don’t even know if they have a ventilator. Anything from childbirth to appendicitis and upwards would normally get flown to a larger island (lifeboat if its foggy) and we only have 3 doctors on the island. Probably a high ratio of doctors to people but very little space for doctors to get sick.
But its a small place with virtually zero crime. No external population to come and cause problems.
It would be easy to completely isolate the island if needed but I doubt anyone here would have the courage required to do it!! But on the whole our size and isolation will I think work in our favour ;-)
Dorien, I really like your idea of documenting your experiences during the pandemic. Your children, and great grandchildren will appreciate it more than you can ever imagine.
My great-great Aunt Fern was born in about 1880. She would have been in her late 30′s during the spanish flu. I’ve often wished I’d had thought to ask her about the experience while she was still alive. Really wish she’d kept a diary.
But when I knew her, she was well up into her 80′s. A spry old gal, prone to reciting risque poetry.
I suspect she didn’t want to put her early life down on paper for reasons of propriety. <g>
A pity, would have enjoyed those parts too.
Fla-Medic: I think you CAN write a book. I am not good at writing, but I am GREAT at video taping. Everybody is good at something. So wouldn’t it be fantastic if all of this is over (if ever) that we can show the afterwards story on Flu wiki, too. All ups and downs included!
David, contact me at mcoston <AT> yahoo <dot> com. I’ll send you my regular email addy.
We’ll talk <g>
Excellent as always, Fla_Medic. My own experiences validate yours. That’s why I’m not worried about isolation - especially if I can keep my umbilical cord to the internet.
For those who like to play around with editing software, I’m sure it would be a very worthwhile project to document the pandemic and experiences of someone in isolation, as it is happening. Like diaries and ship’s logs of others who were caught up in wars and extreme situations, it would offer future generations a window into an historical event.
Sorry - I had no idea my post would stir up such a flurry of responses! Fla-medic is so right. We also lived abroad in a 3rd world country for several years. After awhile you could tell which new expats were going to make it and which wouldn’t. Many came with unrealistic expectations. ANON-I know you are trying to present what might. Yes it might. But the thought of possilby loosing a child, or my kids ending up orphaned or loosing other loved ones, or civilization as we know it breaking down is very overwhelming. I’m looking for things to help keep me sane, h2h or not.
Fla Medic @ 0603
I printed this for my husband and daughter to read. I think I already knew some of it - but I don’t think I could have ever gotten it down “on paper” so to speak- as you did. Remarkable. Tell you what- I hadn’t given much thought to the deliniation of responsibilities. This really made me think about that. Currently, ours are pretty seperate. My husband would have no idea what to do with the food we have because it is almost all- components for meals. You have to do more than open a can and pop a bowl in the microwave. I think I’ll have to teach him some basics in case I get sick.
Hoggie @ 0710
This is what I worry about the most for my husband. Winter before last we had a blizzard that kept us from going anywhere for 24 hous. JUST 24 hous. And my husband was climbing the walls. Now I have seen this man spend a solid week in a small cabin on a mountain with only 2 TV channels(some times none at all) and a radio and sit in a tree stand for hours with not even a book to read and be fine. Because he CHOSE to be there and stay in that isolation and sit in the stand. But the minute he COULD’NT go anywhere he was just awful. He paced the house and couldn’t sit still. He complained and fussed. And we still had power and TV - after he ventured up to clear the snow off the dish!- he could play his bass, work on his hobbies- anything but get in his truck and drive down the road. And so that’s all he wanted to do. I worry a lot about this. I was fine, but I’ve done similar for far longer before and I’m the kind of person who can adjust to most circumstances fairly quickly. I will stock all the things I can think of to amuse him and hopefully it’ll be OK to go into the woods and out in the yard and shout at the cousins as long as we stay far enough away. That may help. But it’s really going to be about him coming to grips with the CAN’T factor. We do both have our own seperate areas in the house so we can get away from each other- , his music room and workshop- my craft/weaving room. I don’t think that will be as much of a problem as the CAN’T issue.
Any suggestions for me from other spouses who either are like this or have dealt with a spouse like this?
A triple 000 how interesting for the armchair psychologist. I assume you are a pessimist by nature. As your exact opposite, I won’t disagree. What you said could happen to you, otherwise you wouldn’t have said it. But as Annie says, The sun will come up tomorrow.For some of us, who are naturally full of feel good endorphans, little orphan annies, so to speak, it takes a lot to get us into such a morbid state. I’m sure you mean well. That is why we have music if nothing else, that is why some of us have good,good,very good memories. We’ve had plenty of problems, bad times, but people like me discard those(except as learning experiences) and somehow only remember the good, the uplifting, the best of times. It will indeed be the best of times, and the worst of times. Partly because of what you yourself make of it. Might be the little chemical factories we all are, I don’t need wine to make me mellow, though I am now drinking a glass with lunch or dinner. I don’t need Zanax, or Zoloft, or Prozac, my systym manufactures itself naturally, with sun, and a bit of exercise, and a lot of joy.Two days ago, I stopped to get gas where I never do. Those few minutes saved me from a horrendous auto accident. Minutes earlier I would have been where a small red car jumped the concrete barrier and ended up nose down, rear end up eight feet off the ground. Who knows besides a shower of glass it I also would have rear ended someone or worse. I didn’t stand around to watch. Other people had pulled off the road, where getting help. opening their trunks for supplies, getting mobilized, doing something to minimize a bad situation. Why be morbid, we will survive somehow. If the worse comes to the worse and people do jump the barrier, do end up as that little red car, a disaster. Well someone will come along and pick up the peices.
David, while I’d like you to contact me. You can assume you have my persmission to use my essay.
Just attribute it to Fla_Medic. <g>
Nikolai, Eyeswide, Nemo etc, thank you for understanding what I was trying to say. I used to visit this discussion site frequently but rarely came back because if you don’t agree with the crowd, you are soon ‘dealt with’ and made to feel like you should not be here. It is interesting to see that some of the more serious and knowledgeable posters don’t seem to be here any longer.
It never ceases to amaze me how people take things so personally and if you dare to suggest that this is not going to be a bed of roses, your charachter is questioned and you are labelled as a ‘pessimist’ or worse. This makes me smile as I am a very optimistic person, I just don’t hide from the truth.
LauraB - a great thread and one which obviously got us thinking.
Lily (anne of old?)- as usual, I have no idea what you are talking about, but I see that the insidious way you have of trying to kill the debate (wrapped in candy, of course) is still there as ever. And why are you so sure that someone will come along to pick up the pieces?
Now lets see who can it be. Tic tac toe.
anon 000,
Hello there, well when I first read your post the other day, do not know the date, it starts —you will soon lose the will to play….., I to was taken aback at first, however last night I actually went through to find it and print it out..got it too!!
I recently went through chemo therapy ,for the second time,,,and I am afraid it has managed to destroy the brain cells I did not manage to destroy in my youth, :-). Anyway tell you that to tell you this,,it took me this long to figure out how right you are. I will quote you here “every cough or ache will be interpreted as symptoms of dsease…”
Well I know you are right , every time I have a lump or bump in my breast area I get pretty nervous alright. FEAR ! oh yes I know what that is.
You are right on a lot of key things here and I am going to write more later because I have to leave. I was planning on writing tonight and then I saw this post up top so I figured I would let you know that I to see the truth . Just slower than you :-( !!
I printed the post so that when I see these FEARS ?? start to rear thier ugly head I can treat them accordingly. I will get to that tonight.
Thanks again
anon 000 - I apologize if my comments questioned your character - the problem that I had with your first post was the doom and gloom without any suggestions of what we could do to make it better - and perhaps I am being overly optimistic in even thinking that there is anything we can do to make it better. And your postings did seem to be personal, you mentioned that we were not living in the real world and that if we thought we could cope we were delusional - although I will grant you that your message sugar coated would be no message at all. I suppose from my perspective - going into this possible pandemic with a good attitude, along with any preparations I can make, is really all I have. If I admit to defeat before it even starts, what hope have I of surviving? Maybe I am hiding from the truth to a point - but maybe that is the defense mechanism that gets me through whatever horrors are to come - I do not for a minute believe that this will be a bed of roses, but by focusing on what little positive there is in a situation of this magnitude -I can at least provide some happiness and hope for my family. I firmly believe that my strength and fortitude will be what holds my family together. Again, my sincere apologies for any hostile reaction I may have had.
P. S. Have we by chance disagreed before?
Layperson Indeed - I am sorry to hear about your struggles. I hope things turn out well for you.
I think that there is room on this thread for both discussions. There will be days when we use our “upside of isolation” techniques that are being brainstormed right now. There will then be those days that we need every cell in our minds to be able to deal with what is happening and to not fall prey to the stress and horrors. I welcome all views as it just gives me another tool in my toolbox as I try to imagine what may come. Communicating in writing can be so difficult and people’s feelings sometimes get in the way of what is meant to be useful content. If we are just careful to not say things that may be interpreted as a personal attack, then all sides of a discussion will be well received and encouraged. (In my opinion… :-)
Leaping Lizards. I can see being optimistic is a rotten thing to be.Realist 000, have it your way.I happen to be of the life is what you make out of it school of thought. You always say it isn’t going to happen, yet you come back. Welcome back.
Incidently I’m opting out of this thread. Let the games begin.
Layperson, you are a better woman than me. I’ve had my share of bad things to deal with, but not in comparison to you. You are clearly a survivor and I wish you the best of all things, pandemic or not.
Watching, we have probably clashed before and I think both have strong opinions. I am guilty of being personal on this thread too, and for that I am sorry.
Humbled, how right you are, we need people like you to bring balance and consideration to such a difficult topic.
I am late in coming to this thread but have found it very meaningful to read. I struggle with the effort to remain upbeat and put my energy into planning and prepping hoping to try and save and help my loved ones if the worse does happen but worry about my ability to survive mentally. With no military or survivalist training I often feel ill prepared for what may come. The comments on this thread will give me a lot to think about and I thank you for all of them.
Lily,
Your positive outlook is welcomed! Please continue to participate in our discussions. Nobody should feel that they are not welcome to post. If feelings get hurt, lets all agree to air it, fix it, then let it go. Deal?
On the “upside”, One thing I will plan to do while in isolation is to wake up every morning and write down 3 things that I am grateful for. I will also plan to make my kids laugh at least one time every day. (Even if it means I have to tickle them. oh! the torture!) I certainly will not feel like doing this most days but in my experience, but if I can force myself to do it, then in most cases the resulting feelings becomes geniune - even if for a second.
On the realistic side of things, One thing I plan to do everyday while in isolation is “exercise my mind” by going over my action plans in awful worst case scenarios. Hopefully I can ward off some of the mental shock that may occur as I am trying to make decisions about sick, dying children or hungry neighbors.
Having these sorts of plans in place may be futile, but at least they will be thought out ahead of time for me to fall back on if needed.
Humbled - I think the idea to write down 3 things you are grateful for every day is a great idea. Even in the worst of times, there is always something to appreciate. I remember reading about a Holocaust survivor who noticed spring flowers growing amidst the death and pain, and said that it gave him hope.
My father in law was in a Japanese concentration camp from age 14 till 18. His brothers attitude was very negative. Very gloomy and doomy, of course understandable in their situation. But he acted as if he was the only one that saw all the hardship en knew their was no way out. My father in law said that he preferred to be in another barak with the positive people, that tried to make the best out of nothing. He said: we were a lot healthier, too! It seperated them forever because their was life after the war but he could not forget how difficult his brother had made the situation for everybody by contributing negativity.
The people who survive in times of trouble are ones who are resillient. You can learn it. You need to find how to have enough to survive.
I keep this quote on my desk and I try to make every negative a positive. I tyr to teach this to my children as well….
Search for the seed of good in every adversity. Master that principle and you will own a precious shield that will guard you well through all the darkest valleys you must traverse. Stars may be seen from the bottom of a deep well, when they cannot be discerned from the mountiantop. So you will learn things in adversity that you would never have discovered without trouble.
There is always a seed of good. Find it and prosper.
Og Mandino
“My husband would have no idea what to do with the food we have because it is almost all- components for meals. You have to do more than open a can and pop a bowl in the microwave. I think I’ll have to teach him some basics in case I get sick. … Any suggestions for me from other spouses who either are like this or have dealt with a spouse like this?”
Yup. A favorite complaint is: “There’s nothing to EAT in here, all you have are INGREDIENTS!”
“Yes darling, its called ‘job security’. Without me, you starve.”
Hide cans of Campbell’s soup around the house. When you get sick, tell him where ONE is. No more than that. If he keeps you alive until the next meal, tell him where to find another can. If you die, he dies. ;)
I do not think that anon 000 was in any way advocating being gloomy during a pandemic. In fact, I don’t think attitude during a pandemic was the point at all. What I took from it was something I’ve been wrestling with for some time now — trying to predict the difficulties in order to be prepared in advance in order to respond with maximum effectiveness.
For example, I am an extremely happy person by nature, one of those who wakes up just glad to be alive, and pleased merely to see sunshine and vegetation. But I know that a pandemic will test this character of mine to the breaking point if ever anything did. Thus, I have been trying to prepare my mind to be able to anticipate the sorts of grief that will arise such that my mind, accustomed as it is to a habit of cheerfulness, will be able to survive. I have noticed that it is often the gloomy cynics who are the most accurate in their assessments and predictions — studies have even demonstrated this. As cheerful as I am, I do not like denial, because it will ultimately betray you.
So, please try to appreciate where anon 000 is coming from. He/she is making an important point.
eyeswidopen please keep your positive attitude…it will go a long way, and just may save you and your family.
anon000 bears the scars of a bureau or large city police force hostage negotiator.
A thought that MAY help in a lock in situation - a few years ago I spent two years doing a job that I absolutely hated. It drove me crazy until I worked out this strategy. I chose a time limit of one week because that was what I thought I could cope with. Once a week, I set aside a few minutes to sit down, look at the facts and decide whether to stay for another week. In the cold light of day, looking at the facts, it was always worth staying because it was good money and that was what I needed at the time.
What I’m getting at is this - get whoever is struggling most with the containment to set the timing, whatever they feel they can cope with. Make sure you have some options, like having masks etc just in case they really have to get out. When you sit down and make that decision, if you are really committed to isolation as the best option, I would lay money on it that all involved will decide to stay for another week or whatever. By making a conscious decision, based on bitesize chunks you have taken control and may find it easier to deal with.
Might not work for everyone but it got me through a sticky patch of being trapped!!!
Thanks Hoggie. Perhaps the best, and most sage advice on this thread.
One day (or week) at a time. That’s exactly how survivors manage to live thru concentration camps, being buried alive for days in the rubble of an earthquake, or being cast adrift for weeks on a lifeboat in the middle of the ocean.
Sometimes taking the long view is important. But taking the next step, drawing the next breath, and getting thru the next minute is what it always boils down to.
I have, due to a natural disaster, gone without electricity and phone for over 5 weeks. I also have been catapulted into a circumstance where I had to protect my family with a firearm.
The point is, until having gone through things like that, while I always THOUGHT I could do what needed to be done, I didn’t know for sure until I was actually faced with that threat.
Anon000 and Fla_Medic both bring up very valid points. Perhaps one may not like the actual delivery, but truth be known, them’s the cold hard facts. This is evidenced and proven from events like Katrina and others where unfortunately the opportunity to bond as friends and neighbors in a common crisis become an all out war and *survival of the fittest* to many.
I’ve been a serious prepper for many years, I’m a firearm instructor and I’m a mother to 4 children. I’ve got the basics down pat, i.e. food, shelter, clothing, medicines, protection…but it is a fact that isn’t etched in stone yet (because we’re not at the pandemic stage yet) that life as we know it will take many curves and bends and dips into valleys we’ve never seen before. Even with forethought I don’t think we can pre-plan everything. From experience, no matter how well I know myself and my capabilities, life has a way of surprising us, and if the right ingredients all go into the batter at the right moment, a *test* of our capabilities will be beyond our present comprehension.
I have survived fires, hurricanes, deaths, threats, among other things. I believe I have the *right stuff* to make it through this pandemic. All these preparations are meant to be a support system to help ensure that I will.
But believe you me, all this pre-planning just ain’t nothin’ like the real thang. And that is what seriously concerns me cause no one is guaranteed of any unknowns.
Thanks to everyone who shares their perspectives…they tend to be thought provoking and affords me an opportunity to ponder potentials in the future that I may have missed along the way.
Shad.
Okay here goes,
I said I would be back, and hheerree I am. Anon 000 —I think you may have done us all a really big favor. It is funny but some of the best things to happen in my life, at the time hardly looked good. Talking about your post— :-)!! Hehe! Okay, so what do we do….??? Half the problems we face in life are that we did not recognize the potential problem going in to it. Now we have had a lot of the problems laid in our lap, solutions are what we are looking for.
The main thing to keep in mind here is—we know we are going into isolation—that does give us a more than fighting chance (still not easy to do) but it does give us that. Most cases, most okay, of real isolation ( as opposed to self inflicted) are sudden, and unexpected thus a severe upheaval to our brains and life style.
Alright, I have been taught -one thing at a time— either pick the hardest or the easiest and start to tackle it- for myself I always choose the easiest first, why ?? Because as I solve things I gain —CONFIDENCE—and Self Esteem, this in its self gives me the courage and hope needed to move forward, so that said, I am going to subject-by-subject answer this. If it helps you,,BRAVO!!
Here is original post:
You will soon lose the will to play games/learn new things/carry on as normal. People in isolation become very depressed and unable to cope in a short space of time. Other feelings will take over; fear, anger, boredom. Insomnia will soon take hold a close family members will cease to interact in the normal way. Those in isolation will also suffer acute anxiety and every cough or ache will be interpreted as symptoms of disease (in oneself and others). You will also obsess about the outside world and what is happening both nationally and locally. You will be fearful every time you hear a noise outside. In severe cases, those in your own household will become a threat to you, regardless of how protective you feel about them right now. Your diet will be compromised and your brain chemicals will change, creating mood swings and even greater depression. Even the smallest problems will be perceived as calamities. You will become lethargic and less likely to keep up personal hygiene. You will also be less careful and may take more risks. If communications, water and electricity are cut off, you will suffer from even greater feelings of isolation and fear. You may feel compelled to get out. You may be forced to go outside by need. Your supplies will run out sooner or later. You will be unlikely to cope with the severe illness or death of those in your household, however well prepared you think you are.
Anyone thinks that there would be any kind of upside to this is delusional.
Here are my answers so far,
11. You will become lethargic and less likely to keep up personal hygiene.
Starting with #11. This is crucial. I have included in my supplies extra, lipstick, perfume, hair goop and then all the main toilitries,deo,razor etc. It truly takes very little water to bathe yourself, I can bathe with 1 and 1/4 cups of water and that includes brushing my teeth. 1 more cup and I can do my hair too! When done it is as good as stepping out of shower. I had the, (looks like may be fortunate!!) experience of doing this for three months (self imposed by the way). I chose to start with #11 first because, this should be the first thing you do every day (now even) when we have gone H2H. And if you PRACTICE this now, then you will be able to this when the time comes, and because every one feels better when they are fresh, did not say things are better, feel better. Also this takes time, and that’s good when days may seem to be longer than before. However our lives may change from this, there is one thing that will stay the same; there are 24hrs in a day. IF you PRACTICE this now and do not wait for the possibility of no running water to try and learn a new way, you will alleviate, a few things, one in a water shortage it would cause you stress to lose a cup full of water (that is right a cup) and anytime we are forced to do new things there is a stress level created. The more we learn to do now, the less stress involved when we have to do it. Also, when something as simple and taken for granted as bathing becomes a challenging effort, yeah, you might choose not to because it seems an impossible task. It is not. If you try now. If you do not try now and you have never experienced this type of bathing for any sustained amount of time, you will find it very challenging and aggravating. Nothing to upset you like tipping over your bath water when water has become so precious. One must set ones mind NOW that as long as there is water available for this, it must be done first thing in the morning.
Sense anyone that reads this post is on the computer, than I will tell you. I have a notebook, actually two. One is the medical book incase I have to take care of someone, a different kind of isolation, there is a lot of info on that and no room for error. Then I have a more general one where I am keeping things I feel I will need. The post that this is in response to is in there. If I can see these things starting to happen I will have my answers and hopefully a slew of your answers to fight this battle. I say fight because in a very real sense that is the truth of what our brains will try to do. Has your mind ever told you “it’s no use, you won’t (whatever, here, you fill in the blank_________) if you just did fill in the blank then yes, you are in for a battle. The news is if you take the time now –you can form weapons of defense. Again, most people are thrown unexpectedly and suddenly into isolation, we can see this coming.
5.Those in isolation will also suffer acute anxiety and every cough or ache will be interpreted as symptoms of disease (in oneself and others).
6. You will also obsess about the outside world and what is happening both nationally and locally.
7. You will be fearful every time you hear a noise outside.
13. If communications, water and electricity are cut off, you will suffer from even greater feelings of isolation and fear.
1.You will soon lose the will to play games/learn new things/carry on as normal.
2.People in isolation become very depressed and unable to cope in a short space of time. 6. You will also obsess about the outside world and what is happening both nationally and locally.
17. You will be unlikely to cope with the severe illness or death of those in your household, however well prepared you think you are.
16. Your supplies will run out sooner or later. 17. You will be unlikely to cope with the severe illness or death of those in your household, however well prepared you think you are. Until #16 or #17 (b) happens I do not see anyone suffering the more severe psychosis, if they have been, preparing and PRACTICING.. A tough time, hell yes. Just the effort involved right now, trying to research, getting supplies, trying to cover all the bases, this is tough, a rude awakening for most of us, with some fear laced in, if you are not paralyzed now, then you will be Okay, those who, once again, are doing the work now, and putting into PRACTICE now some of the hardships, the severe psychosis described in #’s 3,4,8,9,10,12,14,15, is not an issue.
17 (b) Death—The truth is I think it would scar the heck out of most of us – I believe we could cope though, with some of it, if it falls in natural order – scarred yes, cope yes, it is when things go out of the natural order that – How to say this, if I had to care for and bury my 80 year old mother-this is sad, this would be a scar, while this is not normal, we use hospitals pretty much, or hospice, it would be considered the natural death cycle. The unnatural death cycle, than, is the parent having to care for and bury their child. Scarred, oh hell yes! Cope—my brain cannot make that leap now, I do not think it could then! However, any parent out there already knows this, and at the point that this would take place in our household, yes we, could, completely fall into all the severe things listed in 3,4,8,9,10,12,14,15.
16. Your supplies will run out sooner or later.
I will add here that if you are prone to depression or the dark side, Then by all means get with your doctor and get some medication now, you will need it to be sure if you are already suffering that type of thing, then yes if TSHTF it will be harder for you with out medication. If the worst case #16 & 17(b) happens, we will all be in the same boat some will go over the edge and some will not.
18. Anyone thinks that there would be any kind of upside to this is delusional. Oh yes #18—right-o! Yep, that is right, there is no upside to the situation, (s), we have laid out. Nope, not one single upside at all! This would be catastrophic! No argument there at all. The only thing to be said is a reminder to anyone who has actually read this post from beginning to end. PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE, and PREP, PREP, PREP.
11. You will become lethargic and less likely to keep up personal hygiene.
That’s me now.
5.Those in isolation will also suffer acute anxiety and every cough or ache will be interpreted as symptoms of disease (in oneself and others).
Its not the cough that carries you off, its the coffin they carry you off in.
6. You will also obsess about the outside world and what is happening both nationally and locally.
The world can take care of itself. I’m worried about my cough.
7. You will be fearful every time you hear a noise outside.
The noise would be wise to fear ME. Like Shrek said, “I’m the scariest thing in THIS forest!”
13. If communications, water and electricity are cut off, you will suffer from even greater feelings of isolation and fear.
When the lights go out in MY house, my bed fills up with people who feel isolated and fearful. I get hot and annoyed.
1. You will soon lose the will to play games/learn new things/carry on as normal.
Then I shall put on my favorite gown, drape myself across my silk chaise, put on my best pained look, and breathlessly whisper, “I vant to be alone.”
2.People in isolation become very depressed and unable to cope in a short space of time.
Heh. Heh. Hahahahaaahhhaaa! FUNNY! The person who wrote this obviously does not have 1000 things competing for his/her attention 24 hours a day. Isolation depressing? GET REAL! Its my favorite fantasy!
17. You will be unlikely to cope with the severe illness or death of those in your household, however well prepared you think you are.
There aren’t many things worse than the severe illness and death of loved ones. But most people DO cope with tragedy, if not for their own sake, then for the sake of other members of their family. You’ll have plenty of time to cry AFTER the pandemic. Keep your act together during.
16. Your supplies will run out sooner or later.
Sooner or later I’ll stop breathing and die. I just hope my supplies last until that day or I’ll have to go out and get more. I am staying isolated to avoid infecting high risk people in my household. I am not afraid of going out if I run short of food for my family. I’ll just have to sleep in the garage for a few weeks afterwards.
18. Anyone thinks that there would be any kind of upside to this is delusional.
Sweetheart, there isn’t much upside to LIFE. Everyone you love dies, or you do.
Layperson: Bravo. Terrific, thoughtful post. Lots there to consider and lots of great suggestions. Thank you.
Flourbug, sweetheart, how patronizing and clever you are. Of one thing I am sure, if a severe pandemic occurs, your smugness will soon be wiped from your face. I would suggest that it is you who needs to “get real”.
lauraB, you might choose several very specific tasks or goals, and stick to them to completion. Staying focused will help keep away cabin fever and pass the time effectively. Jigsaw puzzles will be good, but I’m planning on also doing things that aren’t as mentally taxing (remember, you want to keep your mind *calm*). One of the things I plan on doing is stripping all the old paint off our doorframes and banister and repainting them. Think “zen” tasks like that.
I think different people will react to quarantine differently. No one can say how others around you will react, and no one knows how this is all going to turn out. There isn’t anyone here with a crystal ball or smart enough to speak to the masses about how they will cope.
anon 000, you couldn’t be more wrong. I’m not smug and inexperienced. I am confident because I don’t have to wonder how I will cope with serious illness, or how it will affect me if I have to hold people I loved as they die in my arms. My infant son strangled to death the first time I left him with a babysitter. My mother died in a fiery car crash. My fiance died when a car in which he was a passenger slammed into a truck parked on the NY Turnpike. At this very moment, members of my household have: cancer, congestive heart failure, emphysemia, crippling osteoarthritis, cerebral palsy that completely paralyzes three limbs and her entire body, schitzophrenia, mental retardation, clinical depression, hypertension, Down’s Syndrome, and blindness. I myself am a cancer survivor, I was declared dead after an auto accident (the one that killed my fiance, we were passengers in the back seat), and I have a gunshot wound in my left leg and three deep scars in my arm from knife fights that are legacies of growing up on the border of Newark NJ. Oh yeah, my first marriage was to a psychopathic lawyer. That was a real picnic. My grandmother lost two children in 1918. I had the flu myself during the pandemics in 1955 and 1968.
I coped.
We’re now facing a PANDEMIC, not planning a summer vacation. Bad is a GIVEN here.
You’re already whining about how awful its going to be before it even gets here. I’m prepared to thumb my nose at it and tell it to go to hell. I KNOW I’ll come out okay. Let me know how your attitude works out for you.
Flourbug: Hey I wouldn’t mind being in isolation with you! Seems like you have a lot to talk about (we wouldn’t miss TV for a minute!) I agree completely with you that BAD is a given, anybody that has some imagination - or experience with regular power outings - can figure that out! Now let’s bring out the coping mechanisms!
So Flourbug: when is YOUR book coming out?
anon 000 - regarding fourbugs comments and then your comments to flourbug and then her reply (could I have made that any more confusing?) I can see both sides. I think anon is really trying to help people be more prepared and doesn’t want them to think that this is going to be summer camp. Anon, I appreciate what you are trying to do, but I still think maybe you are discounting the full appreciation that most of us already have for this possible situation. Flourbug -my condolences for your losses. I think you make a good point in that most of us are not immune to troubles in our own lives. I have known a few people who make it well into adulthood with out any major problems, but I am darn sure not one of them. My father dropped dead at the age of 46, I was 14, which sent my mother into a clinical depression, and I led a rather wild and free life until I grew up - a life that exposed me to a number of life lessons that I wished I had never learned, including drugs, alchohol abuse and domestic violence. My husband and I have lost 3 babies, all to ectopic pregnancies, the first one ruptured when I was into my 2 trimester and the doctors had to give me a transfusion in my jugular vein to keep my heart beating - they told my husband to call the family as they doubted I would make it. We ended up adopting 3 children, but went through the emtional distress of a number of failed attempts. My middle daughter has chronic asthma and I have carried her into the ER with blue lips, and I can’t count the nights we stayed up all night doing breathing treatments and then her trying to throw up all of the mucus in her lungs. She was also hospitalized when she was 5 with a rare disease. My youngest daughter was adopted through Child Protective Services and I haven’t got the time to list everything we deal with her! Suffice it to say, she has emotional trauma, mental health issues, and a few other things that we deal with on a daily basis and probably always will. My oldest nephew is a cancer survivor. I am the secondary caregiver for my elderly aunt who lives in adult foster care because she has a variety of mental disoders and the emotional maturity of a 10 year old. Oh, and she has melanoma for the 2nd time. My husband, in an effort to keep us all clothed and fed, works out of town much of time, which means that most of what I deal with - I deal with alone. My oldest daughter has had 3 major operations and a spinal cord injury. I have had 5 major operations. Ok, sorry this is so long BUT my point is that I consider myself just a regular person. Anon - most people deal with death and sickness and mental anguish and depression and mental illness and physical illness on a really regular basis. Some people don’t handle it real well and maybe those folks won’t do so good if this pandemic comes, but there are a lot of us who deal with everything we get hit with and just keep on going. I do appreciate the fact that you are trying to wake us all up to the potential problems, but I still think that I am a survivor and if this thing comes - no matter what I am faced with - I am going to do whatever it takes and then some, because that what’s I have always done.
Everyone here has things they would rather not discuss. They obviously have gotton through them. Well today for ex. I have narrow angle glaucoma, which means in an acute attack, unless a laser is used I could go blind overnight. Well I have been having headaches and nausea for weeks, have debated going to the E.R. . but had made an appointment for the earlyist date of next week. The guy is very good and very busy. This a.m. the nausea was so intense, my eyes so swollen that I dressed, put in a call at 7a.m. Went got my coffee and sat in my car in the parking lot. At 9 I went into the office, where he had been seeing patients for an hour or so, and said I needed to be seen today, before things got too bad. Well I’ll see him at 2:30 to get the pressure in my eyes measured. All of us have these day to day issues. I don’t want to go blind, certainly not during an epidemic when getting to a hospital for an emergency laser treatment to open up the closure in my eyes. So I smile, and I joke, and if anyone sees me, they would never ever guess I have a problem of any sort. I prefer it that way. I don’t whine or complain, I do what I can. Now today I decided I’m too compliant, too patient, so I went and did something. Thats what all of us here do. We do something to try and avert disaster.I’m just sorry I even waited this long. I know my husband was a different sort of physician, but his day is gone, and doctors do handle things differently than we did. There is always the E.R..And beleive me I nearly headed there a few times this last week. I guarentee you that many in these posts have grave problems, have had years that make just isolation seem like a picnic.Because we are capable of sailing through with panache and grace does not mean we are weaklings.Because we prefer to be positive, does not mean we are fools, or don’t recognize the gravity of the situation.
Watching in Texas said:
“Ok, sorry this is so long BUT my point is that I consider myself just a regular person. Anon - most people deal with death and sickness and mental anguish and depression and mental illness and physical illness on a really regular basis. Some people don’t handle it real well and maybe those folks won’t do so good if this pandemic comes, but there are a lot of us who deal with everything we get hit with and just keep on going.”
By George, I think she’s got it!
Watching in Texas, I’m sorry for your losses. You said, WE ARE JUST REGULAR PEOPLE. I know that because, when tragedy strikes, other people come to me and tell me about their own. Just as you did. You and I know that most people have scars just like our own. No sense in flaunting them, or hiding them. Until, of course, someone like anon 000 comes along and we need to make a point.
To paraphrase Hemingway, the worst luck we could have is to show cowardice.
Now, I am going to take my miserable self out to the Gulf of Mexico and treat the invalids to lunch overlooking the sea. Y’all have fun till I get back.
Flourbug and watching
Thank you both. I don’t know what Anon000′s experience is- though I have asked. Perhaps he/she may have had a hard time at some point and feel like they are the only person who has had life go wrong. Some people are like that- they can’t see past their own suffering.
Most people are regular ordinary people and some float through life without a care and we may envy them here and there. Some of us live through extrordinary situations, usually not because we put ourselves in their way- but they land on us anyway. We can be the teachers. We can help the floaters try to cope because we have BT&DT. My list of woes is a long as either of yours and though different in a few ways- just as difficult. In my opinion each of those experiences have made me stronger to deal with the next one. They have given me skills I can use to try to make it past the next challange- whatever that may be. Dare I jinx muself and say that right now- life is pretty quiet on most fronts- there are 1 or 2 small ripples disturbing my pond but I can row by them. Historically- in my life - this would be the calm before the storm. I never seem to get much of a rest.
AS both of you have stated in this post and others- we none of us think this will be a good thng. But I am going to try my hardest to come through it with my family intact. I think most people are made of much more sturdy fabric than Anon000 thinks they are. I KNOW I am. So I will go on about my way, planning to do things using the methods I have learned and know work, and after the storm we can all compare notes and see who did what - how, when, and why, and how it worked out- so we’ll all be ready for the next time. Cause there is always a next time…………………
Well the doctor and I are both releived. Now its back to my internist. Met a neighbor as I was leaving. She has the other type of glaucoma. Its always something, but my concerns have been put to rest. Now I can enjoy Spring which begins tomorrow.
Well the doctor and I are both releived. Now its back to my internist. Met a neighbor as I was leaving. She has the other type of glaucoma. Its always something, but my concerns have been put to rest. Now I can enjoy Spring which begins tomorrow.
“Perhaps he/she may have had a hard time at some point and feel like they are the only person who has had life go wrong.”
I am repeating myself here but this has NOTHING TO DO WITH MY FEELINGS OR OUTLOOK ON LIFE or anything that has happened to me. You are like the blind leading the blind and cannot accept an opinion that differs from your own. Ignorance is bliss, but as I said in my original post, if we have a severe pandemic, the evenutalities that I described WILL happen. I did not say there is no point in preparing and of course many of us will survive, but not without a significant changes from the lives that we live today.
The level of sophistication (or lack of) in the argument here is staggering . You believe on one hand that you can all hide away, treating your isolation like some kind of sabbatical where you can grow and learn and play games with the kids (and I hope that you don’t have to find out what it will really be like) and on the other hand, you expect others to keep things going and pick up the pieces. You gush about the on-line community that you have created here, yet would shoot your neighbours if they came to you in desperation.
You are not an exclusive club. Shit happens to everyone but will be nothing in comparision to what will happen in the unlikely event that a pandemic that kills tens of millions.
Anon 000 - I thought I had been rather nice and have certainly been trying to not only accept your opinion but also to understand it. My reason for preparing for the possibility of a pandemic is to protect my children, not to hide away. The best skill that I possess is most likely to take care of my family and stay out of the way of the professionals. I do not appreciate your inference that I would expect others to keep things going and let them pick up the pieces. I don’t work at a power plant. I am not a doctor. If I did not have children, I would be more than willing to volunteer and to help out. I have no intention of shooting my elderly neighbor or the single mom with a little girl. I am fully prepared to help them. Would I shoot a looter who was trying to harm my kids - damn straight I would. I am certainly willing to help out after the pandemic is over, but my first responsibility is to my children. I don’t belong to an exclusive club. Why does it bother you so much for the folks on this thread to discuss possible ways to entertain their minds and their families during a possible pandemic? Trying to stay occupied, both mentally and physically, during a period of isolation would be a way to stay sane. Why can’t we just discuss this without being told how stupid we are?
I’d like to write a few words in defense of anon 000′s original post: when I first read it I thought it contained many valuable reminders of what we are possibly facing: a catastrophe, not an extended holiday indoors with plenty of welcome opportunities to get caught up on our reading. We are facing a catastrophe, and we need to be aware that each of us may have to deal with horrific circumstances, unlike anything we have ever faced. Sure, optimists and people who are determined to survive, and to survive well, will have advantages over pessimists, and people who think negatively. But anon 000 was not knocking anyone in her original post, just supplying a needed wake-up call to all those who are prepping and perhaps imagining that since we have prepped, it won’t be all that bad. I think it will be — despite my preparations, despite my optimistic attitude. I think it will be a catastrophe, period.
anon 000, it is clear that the majority may suffer the problems you delineate during a severe pandemic. However, to paint everyone with the same brush regardless of their preparations (including mental and emotional) is unwarranted. You are simply making unsupported pronouncements. The world went through the 1918 pandemic and bounced back, so that is one example we can take to heart. They didn’t even see it coming or have time to prepare, and didn’t really know what hit them. Those in their teens and their twenties went on the raise families during the Great Depression. Both sets of my grandparents went through these conditions and lived full lives afterwards.
So I take exception with your statements as applying to all. And your derisive, condescending attitude.
delphina - I agree - it will be a catastrophe and as I indicated in several of my posts, I think that anon 000 is actually trying to help. I have agreed, and so have several others, it will be horrible, it will be bad beyond all belief. I do not look upon this as a holiday. However, I still think that I will be able to summon the courage to read to my ten year old daughter with special needs. No one is denying that this could be the worst thing we have ever faced. My point has always been that how we face this DOES matter. I also think that certain points that anon 000 has tried to make, could have been worded where they were less personal and less offensive and would, therefore, have been better received by all. That said, I was rather sarcastic earlier and I have apologized.
Anon000
“The level of sophistication (or lack of) in the argument here is staggering”
If we are all so far beneath you - why waste your time here?
“I am repeating myself here but this has NOTHING TO DO WITH MY FEELINGS OR OUTLOOK ON LIFE or anything that has happened to me.”
Anon 000, it has EVERYTHING to do with your outlook on life.
“You are like the blind leading the blind and cannot accept an opinion that differs from your own.”
Compare your post of March 17 12:06 to a list of the symptoms of clinical depression.
“You will soon lose the will to play games/learn new things/carry on as normal.” For the symptom to meet the criteria towards a diagnosis of major depression, a person must have had a significant reduction in level of interest of pleasure in most activities, nearly every day for a two-week period of time.
“People in isolation become very depressed and unable to cope in a short space of time.” Friends and family of the depressed person may notice that he/she has withdrawn from friends, or has neglected or quit doing activities that were once a source of enjoyment.
“Other feelings will take over; fear, anger, boredom.” People who are depressed may appear to be either quite agitated, or alternatively, very slowed down in their mannerisms and behavior.
“Insomnia will soon take hold a close family members will cease to interact in the normal way.” Insomnia, early-morning awakening, or oversleeping
“Those in isolation will also suffer acute anxiety and every cough or ache will be interpreted as symptoms of disease (in oneself and others).” Persistent physical symptoms that do not respond to treatment, such as headaches, digestive disorders, and chronic pain
“Anyone thinks that there would be any kind of upside to this is delusional.” Thoughts and emotions are powerfully affected by clinical depression. A person’s thoughts are frequently very negative and pessimistic. It becomes difficult for a person to believe that he or she can be helped or ever feel well again.
“Ignorance is bliss, but as I said in my original post, if we have a severe pandemic, the evenutalities that I described WILL happen. I did not say there is no point in preparing and of course many of us will survive, but not without a significant changes from the lives that we live today.”
You are not describing how we will react to a pandemic, you are describing the symptoms of a mental illness. Clinical depression is different from feeling sad for legitimate reasons such as the loss of a job or loved one. Clinical depression is a physical illness that manifests itself in a variety of mental and behavioral symptoms. Episodes can happen at any time, but are often precipitated by life events - and they don’t have to be traumatic. While there will be some people in the population who will be pushed over the edge, these are people who are predisposed to Depression. It will not happen to everyone. Most of us will feel terrible about what is happening in the world, and we will grieve for family members and friends we lose. These are normal reactions to a tragedy. But we will not plunge into life altering major depression.
Refer to my post listing all the illnesses in my home. Check Clinical Depression. That would be my husband, and that’s why I recognize your rant for what it is. Your reasoning sounds logical to you, but to me it sounds like someone with clinical depression trying to convince the rest of us that we have it too.
My attitude is very simple. Life is good. Life is a gift. Sure some people grow up in horrendous circumstances, sure some people have a negativity which dampens everyone they come into contact with. I avoid them, because I am not a psychologist, I have found them impossibly negative and I am not here to change anyone. I’ve been told I have helped some people, that just being with me makes them happy, not because I am special, but because I love life and while they are with me, they feel just as enthusiastic about the world and everything in it. We are here for such a short space of time. I saw a film the other day about John Wilmot, Earl of Rochester. He was handsome, gifted, charming, charismatic, a wit, great intelligence,. The film begins with him saying, “You will not like me. The more you find out about me the less you like me.” Well indeed it was so. The man was a living t===. He abducted an heiress, had children, had friends, had many woman, drank like a fish. The only woman who really escaped him whole was an Actress. Mrs Barry. King Charles fogave him over and over, his wife forgave him over and over, his friends forgave him, and he always disapointed. Made absolutely sure he disappointed everyone. I was very weary of the man long before the end. I think at the end he says “I told you, you would not like me.” If you go into this with complete expectations of such misery, indeed you will be miserable.My temperment is sanguine, and long ago I made a pact with myself to enjoy life. I’ve been close to people who chose suicide as a way out of a life they found impossible to enjoy. That was their way out of their misery. I am the opposite, and noone can tell me what I will or will not feel.We will all go into this with whatever personal strengths our experiences have given us. We learn from trouble. We enjoy whatever is good. Life is good, if you want it that way.
Incidently human history is studded with problems such as we face now. During King Charles 11 you had his father beheaded, a civil war, a period of puritanical repression, the restoration which was its opposite, a plague, the great fire in London, and so on. Life here in the U.S. has been very good for the average person. If you suffer from anxiety, depression or mental illness, no time is a good time.Fortunatly there are medications which help. The people I mentioned who committed suicide, where mentally distressed, and medication in those days was much harder on the body.Whoever here has problems had best get them in control before a pandemic.
Anon000- yes, people may well go through the depths of hell.But a good many of them will come out the other side relatively intact. Let people plan for their best coping mechanisms now. As for me, I choose to hold off on being miserable until the situation actually warrants it.
Just an aside - what’s the point of isolation? We all WILL be exposed to any potential influenza virus eventually. The reason that a pandemic would be looming is because there is a virus with a novel genome to which people have not yet been exposed. After the SHTF, the virus will still be circulating (in fact more so) and you will eventually be exposed to it.
Asiatic flu, swine flu, etc. are all still around. Just a thought…
By holding off as long as possible, we hope for a vaccine, good ideas about what treatment works- or at least shorter wait times for the ventilators, plus medical personnel to take care of us, and mortuary workers if all else fails.
But the 1918 flu went away, after all, so maybe this one will too.
“But the 1918 flu went away, after all, so maybe this one will too.”
No… it is still here, circulating. Just that we all have been exposed in some way (survivors, or those who weren’t susceptible anyway). They then pass that immunity on through breast milk, etc. The virus doesn’t die off or become less virulent. Just seems so because more people have immunity post-exposure.
Your point is taken though re: medical resources. It would be nice to spread out the treatment cases.
flourbug - it is impossible to try to reason with you. You are not listening to what I am saying (and by the way, many survivors would end up with mental illness as a result of severe shock and post-traumatic stress related disorders so in that sense, you are correct).
I don’t wish to discuss my personal circumstances, other than to say I am not clinically (or otherwise) depressed and for the tenth time, am not a ‘negative’ person. I have enough knowledge and experience to know that what I say will almost certainly happen and no matter how much you deride me, this will not change or diminish.
Caught the tail-end of a news broadcast last night where they were talking about post-Katrina depression, especially how it affected children. Maybe we could agree that we all have a different outlook on how we will deal with this potential crisis, and put our collective energies together to figure out what we will do IF depression or despair hits us or a loved one square between the eyes.
Does anyone have any knowledge of how they are helping victims of Katrina with the post-trauma and/or depression?
I think we all accept the fact that it could get really, really bad and we are just trying to prepare and adjust as best we know how to - considering that NONE of us have lived through anything like this before. Some adjust through acceptance; some fight it kicking and screaming and others get through it with planning and preparation. No right way, no wrong way. We can’t change the way another reacts or adjusts, but we can be a resource to and for one another. What should we do if we start to experience depression, despair, or we see it a loved one? Surely, we don’t sit back and say “there is nothing to be done”. We have to at least try. Any constructive ideas on how to ward off or lighten pandemic-driven depression and despair are welcomed (clinical depression is a whole other thing).
Post-traumatic stress disorder IS a clinical disorder and requires medical treatment. Are you talking about transient cases of “the blues?”
anon 000, you said “if we have a severe pandemic, the evenutalities that I described WILL happen.”
There is no historical evidence that past pandemics resulted in mental illness in all of the survivors.
Anon 000, think logically. What happned after 1918? Was there a prolonged Dark Ages of the 20th Century for the next decade? Were people so consumed by feelings of grief and hopelessness that they lost the will to engage in normal activities? No. There was a population explosion, a huge growth in inventions and industry, such enormous wealth that average citizens invested heavily in the stock market, and in general that decade developed such a reputation for revelry and high spirits it came to be called the Roaring Twenties.
I truly think that your sweeping generalizations that we’re all going to end up candidates for Zoloft is wrong. Some people will become symptomatic in any disaster. It will not happen to everyone. Not even to most people. Human beings have much more resiliency than you give us credit for.
People have to help themselves before it takes hold. Perhaps someone out there is a professional, who can give some constructive ideas, but truly we are looking into deep waters here. I only know it is very hard to watch it happening and be helpless to halt. I don’t think it is inevitable, but for those of you who are concerned, better to listen to people who are professionaly competant. Perhaps talking to your family doctor.
Depression hits more than 19 million U.S adults each year, including 12 million women. Women face double the risk of being diagnosed with clinical depression. 1 in 8 U.S. women will be diagnosed with depression during their lifetimes.Fewer than half the women who experience depression seek treatment. Source. National Health Association. There are a few articles and news stories on Yahoo News. For Elderly, Antidepressants May Trump Psychotherapy. N.Y. Times March 17. If you are at all depressed now, it may be time to do something about it, before being quarentined. Since this has been brought up, perhaps those of you who feel at risk should most definatly discuss it with a professional who could help you, rather than trying to prognosticate it for the future.
anon 000, Don’t forget the diathesis in the diathesis-stress model. I get what you’re saying, but people resent being told “You WILL react this way” when there is infinite potential for human variability in stress responses.
I have found this thread to be very interesting…
I’ve also learned quite a bit and agree that attitude can and does make a huge difference in how you deal with whatever curve balls life throws your way. ;)
I suffer from panic attacks and from mild depression (runs in my family)and one of the things that I worry about most is not being able to go for a long walk (one of the ways that I deal with my panic attacks and depression). I am doing what I can now to be proactive so that I will not slip into a deep depression. I also suffer from a chronic condition that is made worse by stress and makes my whole body ache. I have to keep a good attitude! :) I’m trying to focus on keeping my kids safe, entertained, educated and informed. My focus needs to be on them and making sure that they have the skills needed to survive this thing if it happens. We have been prepping, learning new skills, made a plan with a daily schedule so that we can continue to function. We are expanding our garden space to grow more food and learning how to save seeds. We are also reaching out to others and helping them to learn how to prep for this thing in the best ways that we know how.
As a parent, I have to do everything I can to help my family survive this to the best of our abilities. I have invested my life in my kids (literally, I was told having children would most likely kill me due to a heart condition that I used to have…God healed me of that!!!!). If I “lose it” then how are my kids going to cope? It’s not fair to them. I’ve been that kid who’s parent would “lose it” and go into a deep depression and I would have to take care of my parent and my siblings and become the “adult and parent” in the household. It’s a very scary way to grow up. I don’t want that for my kids.
Dlynn: I, too, have suffered with panic attacks a good part of my life. I have them under control for the most part and lead a very busy life, however, I am nervous about being “locked-in” for an extended period of time due to a pandemic. It makes me feel trapped and that induces anxiety.
Several things I do know:
A panic attack will not kill me. It is really, really unpleasant but it will pass and I will not die from it;
A very low dose of Paxil each day (1/2 of the regular doses) really stops panic attacks. Not sure if it works for everyone but I plan on seeing my doctor within the next couple of weeks to get a refill to have on hand should the panic attacks increase due to the stress of a pandemic;
I learned years ago to work hard at eating a good diet (without a lot of caffeine); do some daily exercises and strive to keep stress under control really helps;
But, most importantly, finding someone to talk about what you are feeling during an attack is crucial. Pick up the phone and talk to a loved one and ask them to just “be there” until it passes.
Dlynn, it sounds like you are devoted to your kids. This will get you through. If an attack does hit, turn to a friend or loved one until it passes. Just keep remembering that it won’t hurt you….it is just a “misfiring” in your system. Nothing that will hurt you - is just really unpleasant. Depending on the ages of your kids, you may even want to explain to them what is happening to you during an attack. My kids (older) know, and have on occasion been there to just “sit” with me until it passed. It is nice to know that sometimes your kids can be strong for you and help you for the very short amount of time until you are back on your feet.
The high and low of it all: If it be God’s will that my family and I survive, then we will survive. I will set my mind upon this one purpose and have faith. What the isolation experience does to me and mine will be what it will be, and then life will gone on. For me, it is foolish to try to analyze the issue any further.
flourbug: Indeed, after the 1918 pandemic, there was an enormous amount of psychosis, not just from the horrors, but also from brain infections. Indeed, it is possible that WWII happened because of the mental changes that occurred in Woodrow Wilson after he got the flu and recovered while negotiating the armistice. And yes, the vast majority of people could not bear to talk about what happened during that pandemic. Very few wrote about it. Those that did have written some of the most devastating works embodied in the written word.
Anon 000 is doing all of us a favor by trying to help us prepare for what utter bleakness may come. There is a lot of sobering to be done. A resilient attitude can help, but there is mental preparation that can help in developing this. Most of us very cheery people may be tested to the breaking point (if we survive) if we do not prepare mentally.
If you haven’t yet read John Barry’s book “The Great Pandemic”, I recommend it very highly.
And remember: it won’t jsut be a single 3 month wave. The 1918 pandemic went on for about 4 years in waves of diminishing virulence. People died of it for 4 years. Those who got the flu and survived one wave might die in the next one. It is quite possible that a vaccine specific for one wave’s strain may not work in the next.
eyeswideopen at 23:13 - “Indeed, it is possible that WWII happened because of the mental changes that occurred in Woodrow Wilson after he got the flu and recovered while negotiating the armistice.”
I think to put the entire burden of World War II on a possible blunder by one man is really a bit much.
Also, I have tried to defend Anon 000′s motives, but it doesn’t help matters when he/she avoids questions that might help explain why he/she is so certain of his/her predictions. If Anon 000 has some actual experience in this type of occurence, some of that could be shared without divulging a lot of personal information, but would let us know why he/she is so certain. Perhaps Anon is a professional, perhaps not. Anon 000 seems to pick and choose which questions and/or poster to respond to. I don’t think that by alienating a group of people, you are doing them a favor. Anon’s posting of 7:10 was rather tacky and once again, inferred that we are a bunch of Polly Anna-ish idiots.
Yes, Barry’s book is excellent. I found the history of medicine and how the pandemic changed medicine to be extremely interesting.
In 1957, my mother, father, and I all came down with the asian flu. Mom and I were very ill. When the little girl next door died, mom was terrified I would die, too. But she couldn’t do anything to ease my pain - after four days of raging fever, she went into labor and prematurely gave birth to my sister. I recovered, but the fever took 100% of the vision in my right eye, and 80% of the vision in my left eye. I was the lucky one. It soon became apparent that my sister had cerebral palsy. She is mentally retarded, and a quadriplegic. She lives with me now. So, really… I don’t have to wonder how I will cope with the effects of a pandemic, I do that every day.
I have Barry’s book. I have relatives who lived through the pandemic of 1918, and fortunately they didn’t have any problem answering my questions when they told their stories. I wish they were alive today, I would have many more. My father’s father was a medic in the Argonne, and he was shipped home after he was blinded in a gas attack. Half the soldiers on his boat were ill with the flu. His brother was drafted out of high school and sent to NYC to gather bodies and bring them to the mass graves on Long Island. I remember him telling us that they would have to pull babies away from mothers who didn’t want their little ones laying on top of the corpses of strangers. That must have been difficult for that kindly man to do, when he was only 16 himself. Ironically he almost died - not from the flu, he caught typhus from the corpses he handled. There’s a picture in our family album of him looking like death warmed over, but smiling ear to ear because some cute girl was rubbing his bald head.
Withdrawing from your work and what you personally do to keep our society running isn’t going to leave much when people finally emerge from quarantine. Efforts to control the spread of flu by encouraging employers to take all possible measures for you and your colleagues, even at the risk of some people dying, is going to be better than watching it all collapse. Why would essential service personnel risk going to work for others who would rather just opt out (carers excused obviously). I’ve got some supplies but not at the self sufficiency level and intend to keep working if others do. Like all of you, I’ve looked at this a lot and initially considered withdrawal into self imposed quarantine but agree with 000 that it’s a poor option. If society descends into chaos (think all cities) what have we achieved by withdrawal? Protocols for flu avoidance, like closing schools, social distancing, disinfecting are the real solution, IMHO
Watching: The interesting thing was that Wilson had not wanted to put the screws to Germany after the war and resisted all attempts by English and French negotiators. He had been adamant about this during the negotiations, and had expressed the firm conviction that it would be very detrimental to world peace. However, after he recovered from a vicious bout with the flu, he readily conceded everything, surprising everyone in his entourage with his unconcern about his previous position. tragically, his healthy brain had it right, and the harsh terms paved the way to fascist Germany. I do not blame Wilson; I blame the virus for his neurological damage. He had tried very hard to do what history would show to be the wiser thing before he got the flu.
Dem in CT above alludes to anon 000 as being a hostage negotiator. Pretty stressful work, I would think.
flourbug: Sounds like you and your family have been through the mill with influenza. Did you recover any of your vision? Prepping for you and your sister must be a big job. interesting that your grandfather’s brother caught typhus — very often, influenza was misdiagnosed as typhus, as well as cholera, etc., so he might actually have had influenza.
I think you might find Barry’s book very interesting if you haven’t yet read it.
eyeswideopen - yes I agree that being a hostage negotiator would be stressful, I don’t see though how that could give you that much insight into the effects of an 18 month pandemic. My husband was in Viet Nam, much of the time doing recon behind enemy lines - very stressful - and while that may have given him the tools he may need to survive another stressful situation, it does not give him a crystal ball into the future that determines the reaction of the human race during a given event. My point has been that Anon has a valid point, but has gone about sharing it rather rudely, and has not answered specific questions that might have lent validity to the opinion.
eyeswideopen at 23:13 - “Indeed, it is possible that WWII happened because of the mental changes that occurred in Woodrow Wilson after he got the flu and recovered while negotiating the armistice.”
You gotta be freekin kiddin me? Yes things were ripe for just that sort of thing to occur, and vascilating politicians made it even more so but when it comes right down to it WWII happened because a brain diseased homicidal megalomaniac got control of a country heart, mind and soul, the fascists glammed on to him like Takeru Kobayashi grabs a hot dog, those who knew better in that nation were too weak in the knees to stand up against him and his movement, and the rest of the world leaders chose the route of appeasement instead of squashing him right from the start. What’s that old saying, “All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing”.
Oh my, did I say all that out loud?
I agree with you that anon 000 means well, its just that his/her delivery needs alot of work.
EOD - ROTFL
eyeswideopen, I have Barry’s book. My grandparents lived through wars, the Great Depression, and the Influenze Pandemic. They told many stories of their experiences. Uncle Steve had typhus. The rats usually got to bodies left outside before the pickup crews. Fleas jumped from the rats, to the corpses, and jumped on the men when they picked the bodies up. Steve wasn’t the only one who got typhus. He was bald as a billard ball his whole life.
The flu was just one bump in a bumpy road. I didn’t come along until the second part of the century, after all the fun was over. I grew up in a very large, loving, happy home. My grandparents and all their siblings were incredible people. When you experience unusual loss, you appreciate the things you have so much more. You become gentler, more loving, let the little things roll off your back. Its okay to let your husband stomp out the door to work, angry about some trivial thing when you don’t have any question he’ll come back that night. But when the potential for loss is at the forefront of your mind, when you know from experience these may be the last words you say to each other, then a petty argument loses all of its steam and is replaced by the affection you feel for each other. The reality is, we could lose EVERYTHING we have. But we block out that thought and go through life as if the only things that will change are those that we want to change, and we are all immortal.
As much emphasis as I place on surviving, its not just about making the body last longer. Its about keeping the spirit well nourished as well. Just as you stock your pantry, you need to prepare yourself emotionally to face life’s challenges. If you overexaggerate the negatives, or blow them so far out of proportion they defy reality, you are just as bad as the person who has his head in the sand.
EOD, you made me spit out my cheerios! rofl!
Anon000: you helped me quite a lot! I know now what activitiy I can do to keep the kids busy: how about paint your own coffin!
BoonCT - hey - when they get done with that - maybe they can write their own eulogy!
One more last tip before I am off to Sams club: how about tail the donkey? Don’t need blindfold at night! (reminds me to get some extra bandaid) Another one: do the taste test: real tamiflu or fake! see ya,
Anyone see the Cow Parade? Artists paint a life sized plaster cow, and businesses and cities put them up on display. There are psychedelic cows, billboard cows, polka dot cows, they just go wild with the colors and designs. A really fun public art exhibit.
The fancy mahogany and brass coffins are going to be in short supply but every handyman dad can whip up a few basic pine boxes for the family. A little paint, varnish it to a nice shine, and you’re all set. If someone dies, bury them, of course! But once the pandemic passes, put your coffin in your front lawn and fill it with flowers. Look down the street and you’ll see all the Planters on Parade.
Janet~thanks for sharing what has helped you with your panic attacks. I have had them for a good part of my life now and know that I can and will get through them…even if it feels like I am going to die during one! ;) My kids are in their teens and they have helped get me through them before. I warn them when they are coming on and we “change the scenary” by going for a walk or something so that I get some fresh air and calm down. I’m not on meds for them since I have been able to control them for the most part by the above method. I may have to talk to my doctor though about getting a perscription just in case we are cooped up in the house. I just have some strange reactions to meds so I am cautious about taking anything I don’t absolutely have to.
Naaa, you all make my day. One of the things I like and appreciate most about fluwikie and those here is the ability for folks to not take things too seriously. Yes the whole BF thingie is serious but that does not mean everything we say has to be dripping with blood, sweat, and tears. I would just love to actually know many here but probably never will beyond these chats, so I will just enjoy and appreciate each of you as best as I can under these circumstances, and try to learn a bit along the way as well.
Flourbug, I saw something in the news last week about a BF conference, in Seattle I think, where one of the speakers was actually addressing that issue and giving instruction on how to properly bury your dead in your back yard, certain distance from water sources, etc. It was SO strange to read that and probably stranger yet to be sitting there listening.
Dlynn, I don’t know if panic attacks will respond to the same things as clinical depression, but we have had excellent luck keeping my husband’s symptoms suppressed for the last six years. I watch his diet, avoiding processed foods, and suppliment with a good multivitamin and Omega 3 fish oil pill. He exercises every day, and most importantly, we keep our relationship in top condition. He tells me when he has negative thoughts, and if they are legitimate we discuss them (come up with solutions so he doesn’t have to think about these issues any more than necessary) and if they are unfounded then we take a break from our daily routines and go do something fun. It may be just a walk on the beach with our son, holding hands and cuddling while watching the sun set. It is VERY important to nip the symptoms in the bud. Think of it as brain chemical warfare. We don’t want the enemy to get the advantage.
EOD, let’s not even go there! I can’t plant a petunia without hitting water, and I don’t want to think about what would happen to a ripe body laying in the garage or outside in the sun, even in a body bag. Good thing we have a lot of vultures around here. What the birds giveth, let the birds taketh awayeth.
Spring is incumin in. Why not enjoy it. We’ve done the 000 exercise. I am a frivolous person. I am wearing a oversize sky blue turtleneck, and a brilliant dark electric blue imtraseude shirt with the sleeves rolled up over my blue jeans. The sky is filled with fleecy clouds. I’m happy. Color makes me happy. Now I’m going to do a Dians Vreeland. Why not, redecorate your kids bedrooms in a color that makes them happy. They have people figuring out the colors to use in hospitals, in psychiatric facilities. Now before the dementors fly in, do a little spring cleaning, let the fresh air in throughout the house. Very basic simple things can make a hugh difference in peoples attitudes. We may not be able to get out of doors if there is a quarentine, or if you isolate, but you sure at h--- can do so now.
That’s the spirit, Lily!
I was mulling over your comments, thinking about how my husband and I have made it a point to take our son out more than usual, just to enjoy things now. We’re taking a lot of pictures and videos, which will be fun to look over, pandemic or not. I was laughing thinking about a vacation we took a few years back. We thought our son would really enjoy DisneyWorld. I dunno if it was an off day for him or what, but he was terrified of the attractions and cried on every single one we tried - even that slow moving magnetic train. My husband and I felt awful - not only because the kid was so miserable, but also because we spent a LOT of money making him miserable. Guess what turned out to be one of his favorite videos? I can’t tell you how many times I have heard him crying, screaming in terror, and I’ll drop everything and run to him, only to hear my comforting voice telling him its okay, its only Buzz Lightyear! “Are you watching that awful video again?” “Its FUNNY mom!” “Yeah, $500 worth of funny. At least warn me when you turn it on.”
Lily I’m with you. Positive positive positive. It’s the only way to go at things. Especially the hardest to deal with- can’t imagine- things. Life is just too bleepin short and may be shorter than we think- plan for tomorrow- Live today. Right now- Ok - so maybe after I get out of work… but it’ll still be today. I strive to have a positive outlook as often as possible because- really- the alternative sucks! Positive attitude may not help me if TSHTF- but it won’t hurt me either.
I tried to keep my fingers off the keyboard. Flourbug and Watching in Texas spoke up for all of us who don’t intend to become victims. If you predetermine such, you have lost already. Our weaponary is our minds. Those who have foreknowledge of depression have to do something about it now so that they can cope. Most of us aren’t out of balance in that way, so I think most of us can pretty much ride the waves, just as a good surfer does. I’ve known people who are badly messed up in the best of situations, and there are those of us who can rise to anything life throws at us. (At least most of it.) I hope we all do. We may never need to.
Thanks Flourbug! I’m a huge believer in diet being key to help with our health mentally and physically. If I have too much sugar it just puts my body and my emotions into a tailspin as does too much processed food. Lily, I love your attitude and take on life! I’ve been through some pretty rough times in my life but I continue to try to see the good in people and the joy that comes from just knowing that each day is a precious gift from God! When I’m having a hard time coping I just try to remember that tomorrow is a new day filled with promise and I try to count my many blessings and not dwell on other things.
Thanks Flourbug! I’m a huge believer in diet being key to help with our health mentally and physically. If I have too much sugar it just puts my body and my emotions into a tailspin as does too much processed food. Lily, I love your attitude and take on life! I’ve been through some pretty rough times in my life but I continue to try to see the good in people and the joy that comes from just knowing that each day is a precious gift from God! When I’m having a hard time coping I just try to remember that tomorrow is a new day filled with promise and I try to count my many blessings and not dwell on other things.
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