Not sure where to put this so, as usual, I’ll start my own thread. (-:
My husband hasn’t been doing so well and went for a visit to his psychiatrist. I’ve been trying to get him to stock up on some much needed meds but it has been hard, so I asked him (kinda as a joke) to mention to his doc that his wife has been “driving him crazy” with her bird flu fears and to see what he thought about the threat.
He returned with a LOT of prescriptions and samples, not in and of itself unusual as this doctor is known for being very free with the prescriptions, but it was more than usual. But he also said his doctor would like me to come in and talk with him about “bird flu”.
I am trying to figure this out; I feel like I’m being called in to the principal’s office. My husband seems to think his doctor is going to tell me not to worry so much, to get off the computer, and to leave my husband out of it.
I’m not so sure; and I’m not sure what to expect when I go in there and talk to him. This man is the director of an in-patient psychiatric hospital… I HAVE to believe he is somewhat aware of the threat of a pandemic. In my wildest hopes, I imagine he wants to talk to me about how I can best help my husband through the uncertain times ahead. I dread instead being in a position where I feel I am being patronized, spoken down to. I’d rather not go at all if that’s what he has in mind.
Wondered if any in the mental health field had any advice or insight?
Not a mental health field but as a suggestion print out the forum discussion Nursing Home Care During a Pandemic Real Answers. It is closed now but the forum discussion can still be found and printed out. The reason it held some talk from an administrator of a nursing home.
I would jump at the chance to talk to a medical professional about bird flu!
Makes me wonder why I haven’t sought out an appointment!
Tell us what he say’s- he may tell you only one significant thing…but I’m sure it will be significant..it should be.
Average Concerned Mom – at 00:58 --- He’s not supposed to share what he and your DH have talked about, but what if what your husband has told him has sparked a strong interest in prepping and a curiosity of what others are thinking about a possible pandemic? This could be your chance to teach the teacher…
If worse comes to worst, you can always get up off the couch and walk out…
After you are done with him… he will need to see a shrink!!!
THanks — BB — you are funny, yes of course I can leave.
Goju, no, that’s my fear — I clam up in serious situations, and I don’t have all the facts at my fingertips. I’m not a quick thinker and speaker, I am slow and methodical, quiet, a listener. I am like water-drip torture, slowly and steadily I can get people to listen and understand, but a psychiatrist doesn’t have that kind of time. I feel like I will have just 5 minutes to present my “case” so to speak.
But I need to have some faith. This man has been treating my husband for many years, and he and I both have my husband’s best interests at heart. I am truly concerned about how to get my husband a good supply of the drugs he needs, and this Dr. could help me do that; indeed he could and should be helping all of his patients do that — he lives and works in the right city to be able to influence policy to that effect.
Of all my concerns about the societal ramifications of a pandemic, I am most concerned about the seriously mentally ill — esp. bipolar and schizophrenics — losing access to their medications and to their doctors. Even for one week would be a huge burden to them.
I surely hope that the psychiatrists over there are more aware than they seem to be here.. my dad and I went to one to talk about family problems, and he (my dad) brought up my prepping. He has never understood why I do it, and was apparently worried about me. It was obvious that he had been talking to the shrink about it before, and that I was now being “evaluated”.. so, I lied. I said that I no longer prep, that I’m not worried anymore, etc.. I handled that situation well and they bought it, but it was a test for me. Having to lie your own father straight in the face as well isn’t that much fun. :/ Atleast my mom is prepping, and for that I am glad. (they are divorced btw)
Good luck anyways.
Remember the phrase we’ve used regarding TPTB: “Watch what they do, not what they say.” The fact that he was willing to give your husband the extra meds is an action that says alot to me. We have approached my husband’s phyician about getting a 3 month prescription for a med he’s taken for over a decade should we need to SIP and he was met with a brick wall! There is a possibility that this Dr. wants to find out what you have learned about avian flu. I have a friend of 24 years who is a physician in another state and he has asked me to email him articles that I think are important regarding bird flu. He simply doesn’t have the time to look for them and he trusts that I will keep him updated. I’ve even sent him copies of some of the fluwiki threads that I felt would be of import!
ACM- My guess is that it will go both ways. He may need to reassure himself that it was/is ok to give a bunch of meds to your husband (yes, you exist, yes, you have told hubby to prep meds, yes, you know enough to hide away the meds from a suicidal person) and he may be helping you by explaining what to do when meds start to run out, symptoms change, or diet changes, hubby has to take otc meds, etc. He may also be watching to see if you’re as anxious as dh told him- and see if that affects dh’s treatment (anxiety can be contagious!IMHO) Also, he may be interested in learning more about panflu. I would say take a written list of FACTS include a few quotes from respected sources and info on this website. OR- he is a fellow wikian who wants to point you in this direction. Best bet- fess up and tell him it is too much info to condense into a short meeting,have your stuff written up ahead of time and ask for anything specific you need to know. If he doesn’t get it, thats ok too. You tried. Come home and pour a big old BB’s RWFK, and tell US all about it. You have a bunch of people here on your side.
kc_quiet THANKS! (and everyone else too.)
I do have to realize that everything this doctor is hearing is coming through the filter of my husband.
Maybe I’ll take him some of our pandemic flu awareness week stuff!
He might think something is wrong with you! I would bring some copies of info from some of the professions who are concerned about bird flu. Otherwise, he may offer you some meds. I have a friend who works in a doctor’s office and they think bird flu is nothing to worry about. Let us know how it goes.
Ruth — At this point I would be thrilled if the psychiatrist wanted to medicate me — as long as the meds were the same brand and “flavor” as the ones my husband takes! What a great way to build up a supply! (-:
Average Concerned Mom - intriguing situation indeed.
As usual, when you are confronted with two options, look for the third, fourth and fifth.
We need to build our own flexibility in these times. If you’re the methodic type, then you can be systematic about finding options: go for zero and infinity, and then sideways (select each element of the initial choice and replace it with the oposite or some wild alternative). You may become fast at it.
Example:
Pan Flu Awareness - one psychiatrist at a time.
Not a psychiatrist, but have long-standing, firsthand ties to the mental health community from the provider side.
ACM, Have you been active in consulting with the doc throughout your husband’s treatment? If so, this may be more of the same. If the psychiatrist is attempting to understand your concerns for your husband in the context of his treatment plan for your husband, that would seem appropriate.
If the psych is calling you in as a resource for him/herself, that, in my opinion, is unethical and crossing boundaries. Every mental health professional I know avoids such conflicts of interest at all cost. There are plenty of resources available to this professional by which s/he can educate him/herself on pandemic. I would not view this as a great opportunity to educate a mental health professional as this person is committing a breach of acceptable professional ethical standards.
As for your concerns about SMI folks losing their support network, you are dead on. In our state, the plan is to close the community mental health centers and do phone triage and support for as long as possible. After that, no plans in place. Mental health care delivery will take a backseat to other health care delivery needs.
Goju – at 01:32 ; ROTFL (it’s better than crying)
lugon had a point; maybe mail some printed info first?
I am the TMI person (and it doesn’t seem effective, so, pick and choose)…:
Oct 2005: http://www.who.int/csr/disease/influenza/pandemic10things/en/
and the important “unplugging” notice for Thing 10: …”6. Pandemic phase assessment A WHO decision to change the phase of pandemic alert will be made separately from the decision to initiate a rapid response or rapid containment effort. Since a change in phase is expected to trigger a number of potentially cascading actions by countries, possibly including travel restrictions and border closures, such a decision will be highly visible and is expected to have significant political, social and economic implications”…
in case anyone is still saying, But, it’s ok: we’re at Nov.2005′s “Phase 3″…
Your state’s pandemic plan on paper may also say, Mental health professionals will care for responders and public; did they send them any memos yet?
To prepare for import/supply disruptions? Memos that don’t “assume” there will be a low attack rate and miniscule CFR? (The hurricane will probably miss, or, be a Cat 1; the levees just won’t fail the below-sea level city with unprepared populace…)
In last year’s Gartner Fellows interview with Dr.Nabarro, he said, “The biology colleagues that I speak with tell me that if the pathogenic characteristics of H5N1 were to be taken forward as it mutates into having a human-to-human transmission capacity, then we would have a virus with high pathogenicity. So, we really have to hope that if it’s a mutant of H5N1 that causes the next pandemic, it sheds some of the pathogenicity that this current virus has during its mutation.”…
I don’t buy the local/state reassurances that anything has to become less virulent to spread, in this age of air travel. HIV/AIDS is still fatal, slowly, if no access to treatment, and, the new MDR TB is fatal within weeks even with modern treatment available!
The current system and level of public awareness is not up to even a 2% CFR.
I think the officials who have been diligently Not Telling the Public “So, They Won’t Panic” Because, if it Happens, it will So Bad; There’s Nuth-thing We Can Do” should be seeing the shrinks and be on meds; not us. (But, they aren’t, so…it’s crazy-making.)
Mental health care systems currently can’t handle the population’s needs; imagine the post-Katrina and post-Tsunami populaces, except, it would be everyone.
The mental health care providers won’t be personally unaffected by an influenza pandemic; I hope they have been reading the Wiki. I hope they are willing to get more out in the open.
…”indeed he could and should be helping all of his patients do that — he lives and works in the right city to be able to influence policy to that effect.”…
anonymous at 9:26
Yes, I have occasionally been called in to be a part of my husband’s treatment. I do feel this “call in” is to tell me to stop worrying/stop stressing my husband out (by stressing him out, I guess, being concerned enought o talk to him about it” is doing that — as in, stop expecting my husband to be any kind of support to me emotionally at all.)
I don’t think the psychiatrist is bringing me in because he is curious to learn more. He is a smart and capable man, could do that all on his own.
crfullmoon — what is TMI person?
TMI; too much information.
Don’t worry…
My doc laughed when I said I was concerned about Pandemic Flu,but she did give me the Pneumovax 23 vacination shot and and RX for Tamiflu. She said if you will sleep better having the Tamiflu then you can get it. I said I hope I never need to use it.
I gave her copies of the following
Medical Offices and Clinics Pandemic Influenza Planning http://www.pandemicflu.gov/plan/medical.html
Pandemic Flu Planning Checklist for Individuals and Families http://www.pandemicflu.gov/planguide/checklist.html
Red Cross Guide to Home Care during a Pandemic http://www.tallytown.com/redcross/library/HomeCareForPandemicInfluenza.pdf
I had never thought about this….but now….OMG….my sister is on antidepresants and I can not stand to be around her when she forgets to take them. The thought of sipping with her without her medication and with a gun in the house….one of us could end up dead. Seriously, this woman WILL make life a missery for EVERYONE because when she’s off the meds it’s me me me me me and nothing anyone else does is ever right!!!!!!!!!
This seriously scares me more than BF itself!
It is bad news if people go off or run out of “head meds” cold turkey!
What if a family member breaks SIP and and then come running back to the house? Make them stay in the garage for 10 days?
Average Concerned Mom
Despite the fact that you have met the psychiatrist, that he has given your husband the prescriptions, you have gone to the trouble of opening the thread to ask us for advice. Therefore, something deep within you is saying “watch out”. You may not be able to find a rational explanation for your reluctance. Your gut is saying something.
Listen to yourself. Something’s not right if you have to ask us about this psychiatrist you have known for years…
Me, with an unused BSc Hons Psychology and otherwise some life experience, I would not go. I can too much remember another poster on another thread who was so distressed as her husband took the steps to have all the preps removed and donated to a church, and having her more or less labelled as an official “nut”. With respect to bird flu, in this instance, I’d keep a very low profile with a husband, just continuing preps in a more determined but also a more quiet way. As for procuring meds for a husband for whom they are important, I would try and see alternate sources for prescriptions.
ACM, I think it would help as others have suggested, to go in with a folder of materials you have copied to leave with him. Also, it might help to use the index here to read up on “Adjustment Reaction” and “coping”. It always help to become familiar with issues, jargon, etc. You have good insights, just rely on them and don’t let anyone intimidate you. Please let us know how it goes.
My $0.02:
If I were a psychiatrist and my patient came in “not doing so well”, and if, in the course of that visit, my patient mentioned that his wife was prepping for bird flu, chances I’d want to know more about the situation (whether or not the prepping was new information, simply because it came up in this context).
It wouldn’t matter whether I shared a concern about BF, was neutral (or uninformed), or had my mind made up that it’s a non-issue.
It’s still about the patient (or, should be). The patient could have said “wife is driving me crazy” as instructed :), or “wife is being quite reasonable”, or made no judgement at all. How much would you rely on the statement of someone who’s there specifically because he’s not doing well? Maybe the husband isn’t in the best position to be objective, under the circumstances.
Even if the doctor’s a committed fluwickian, the wife’s BF fears might be rational and her actions reasonable, or she might be going through an adjustment reaction. As has been dicussed in this forum, many/most of us have been there, done that.
That said, I agree that if you’re worried there may be a good reason for it. Trust your instincts.
I am not a doctor, just my thoughts about how people SHOULD be treated. Wanting to see you himself isn’t a bad thing, necessarily. It could mean that he’s trying to do a good job in treating your husband. If he turns out to be prejudiced against prepping, just remember that he probably has your husband’s best interests at heart.
I bring in spouses of my clients regularly. It is most often very helpful. Clients consistently report increased positive support from their spouse after such a meeting. I have addressed this situation in reverse. Two of my clients who are prepping were being told by their spouses that their behavior was ‘anxious’ and ‘crazy’. I gave the nonsupportive spouses written info, referred them to websites, encouraged them to educate themselves about this threat. I was also able to show them mailings from state associations and cdc about pandemic preparedness excercises recommended for health facilities. If this psychiatrist makes an attempt to minimize your concern and the hard work you’ve done, it would be a most unprofessional stance to take. Perhaps replying sweetly “I can see that you haven’t researched this area Dr. so and so.” And then offer assistance there…Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
Blackbird,
A very thoughtful, and in my opinion, accurate comment regarding the doctor’s likely motive in requesting a meeting. I would also have asked for such a meeting to simply gather more information that might assist in my understanding of the patient. I would not expect someone to bring in a folder of materials as “proof” of a legitimate need for concern. I would also not be critical of reasonable efforts to prep.
AC Mom, don’t shut-down, your husband and his doctor need you to be brave.
taking all the above into consideration,
i’d simply go.
open to whatever might take place.
and deal with that as clearly and calmly as is possible in the moment it comes up.
you have no reason to be nervous because you’ve done and are doing nothing wrong.
maybe keep the exchange simple, answering appropriately for what’s being asked depending on how much you care to keep your personal business or no.
might actually turn-out to be a nice conversation!
bottom-line: no expectations. just be yourself.
good luck! : )
psyberdoc - thanks
Posie - I agree with your approach, well said
ACM - Good luck, however you decide to approach this :)
Yesterday and today’s fluwiki news has some printable information you could give to the doctor. For example, under USA for both days there is pertinant information. One article is from the health secretary, Mike Leavitt, who says, “No need to panic but be prepared.” This article specifically sites the US Sec. of HHS saying, “… a pandemic is unique because it typically lasts a year or more and occurs everywhere at the same time.”
blackbird – at 18:23
Thanks for showing us how to look (objectively) at the doctor’s point of view. It’s very much part of the flexibility we need (now and later).
Much of what we do has to do with “aims” (ours, the doctor’s, the patient’s), “points of view” (as objective as possible, and if we don’t know we try several possibilities just like this thread shows), “action” (quiet or noisy) and “flexibility”.
Learning as we go!
Wow, there are now too many people to thank! Thank you all for your advice and suggestions.
To answer some questions: I mis-wrote a little. *I* have asked to be included a few times in my husband’s sessions either with psychiatrist or his therapist, when I felt there were problems or that he wasn’t accurately portraying his mental state to them (with regards to tweaking meds). Sometimes I send a note or email. Once his therapist called me in to discuss how I could “support him better”, which was a productive visit. I have never been asked by his very busy psychiatrist to come in. In speaking with my husband, it seems he told the doctor he was worried about my mental heath, because I spend so much time worrying about bird flu and on the computer. Also, I took a $200 check for my birthday and spent it on wind-up radio and some emergency preparedness supplies, instead of, I don’t know, clothes?
I’m not worriued about being labelled a nut job, because I know I am not, and certainly no one in my family can look at what limited prepping I’ve done and think that. Also we can only afford to have one nut case in the family and that spot has already been taken.
I gues the reason I wrote asking for advice was, I don’t have any other friends to ask! I have a few close friends who know of my husband’s condition, but they are not in agreement with me about the risk or pandemic flu.
I think I will take everyone’s suggestions under consideration, and see how I feel next week about meeting with the dr. and how to approach it.
Actually this will turn out to be a blessing in disguise! I need to know in detail from the dr. what the ramifications will be if my husband has to suddenly go off of his medications, including Abilify and some SSRI I forget the name of. I need to know if he can go on them half-dose to stretch things out, or start and stop them. I need to know if the dr. knows any creative, ethical, legal ways for us to get a bigger supply of these drugs. I need to know if he will write a scrip for 3 months supply and recommend to my husband that we sell some stock and pay out-of-pocket. (Without insurance, these drugs are super expensive and my husband does not agree that we need to do this, naturally!) And, I need to do all this without my husband present — which he won’t be, because HE wants me to go meet his doc and learn that bird flu is not a big deal, so he has offered to watch the children. Actually, this could not be better!
Bonus points, it would be great if the psychiatrist could tell my husband, your wife seems like she is doing all the right things, just keep listening to her, and rub her back when she seems stressed. (Think he will?)
Thanks again everyone for helping me think this through.
ACM, you’re right!
This IS a good opportunity for you to get your family better positioned for any unknowns. When is this meeting to take place next week?
I’m anxious to hear how it goes….Posie said it best. And your alarm bell went off as it should — so the best defense is a great offense! Go in and be open to whatever HELPS you, reject whatever would be limiting you from taking care of your family, and remember you can walk out anytime, if you need to.
Dear ACM, Many of us “have no other friends to ask” concerning issues surrounding the pandemic, except for our fluwikie friends. Your questions have and will continue to give responses which will help many of us in various situations.
I hope you’ll post back and let us know how it went if you decide to go. If you do decide to go, I would be fascinated to know how the visit/session gets billed, which might tell you if psych. sees it as a family consult to help with your husband’s tx (easy to bill) or an informational session for him (not billable to insurance without some sleight of hand). If you go and it goes well, it would be really interesting to know if psychiatrist has any contingency plans for maintaining coverage for his patients in the event of pandemic and/or if his professional organization has issued any guidelines for such an event. Thoughts of liability/lawsuits running through the mind can sometimes tend to focus one’s attention. Good luck to you whatever you decide to do.
I will report back. I haven’t been sleeping well (because my husband hasn’t) and feel we both need to get back on track a little before I make this appointment. So it might be a week or two. Thanks!
Good luck, ACM! I think you will hold your own and learn from whatever the discussion turns out to be. : )
Update from me…
I went to the appointment. I was glad to have gone. (Side note — doc charges $250 for 30 min. appointment! Most not covered by insurance.)
I learned some significant information regarding my husband’s diagnosis, which I had been suspecting based on his meds and my own observations, but hadn’t known for sure. (Seems husband didn’t know either.) This was very important information for me to know, as it may well impact one of my children. So, just for that I’m glad I went.
The session was for 30 minutes but I ended up staying 90 minutes. (!!) For about an hour we discusses my husband and me, our relationship, my own mental health etc. I got some good perspective on what I can do to help him and also to help me. I’m taking a lot of action on that right now.
The last 30 minutes we turned to discuss “my fears” and the psychiatrist was good to not take sides, to present it as, “I’ve heard on this from your husband, but he may be unreliable, let’s hear it from you.” This was the first time I’ve ever really discussed pandemic issues with anyone from scratch, and as I predicted, I didn’t do so well. As I was watching “the look” on this guy’s face, I kind of had to laugh inside — I realize he sees for a living plenty of people who believe they are talking to aliens (no offense to those people of course!) and so he was probably trying at that moment to figure out where to classify me.
He didn’t seem to have very much knowledge about a pandemic. At first he told me, he respected my concern, but thought it very likely that these rumors were started by the CIA for political purposes, it has happened in the past. (?!?!?) I continued to explain what I thought, and he said that he wasn’t unaware of bird flu, as a frequent world traveler, he had been in Turkey when “the pandemic” hit there and several chilcren were killed. (Interesting side note: He kept saying “bird flu” while I kept saying “Human Influenza Pandemic” because my personal concern is not for “bird flu” from birds but human flu from humans. So, he finally switched to using the term “pandemic” to describe the outbreak in Turkey.)
Later, he told me he had respect for my concern, but could assure me he could prove that our risks of a thermonuclear attack in our city were greater than our risks of contracting a pandemic. (-:
It got kind of surreal here, as I started trying to explain that I was not a worrier by trade or nature, but frankly, a thermonuclear attack is less worrisome to me than a pandemic. He was astounded that I could not be worried about a nuclear attack on our city. So I tried to explain, that a direct nuclear attack, though horribly devastating, would be a one time event, not something you would have to live through for a certain number of weeks, months, even years. And that help for the attack after wards could come from all over the country, or if you survived, you could move back with your parents… but a pandemic would occur everywhere at once — and separate people from each other…
This was interesting, as I believe I saw a bit of understanding n his eyes at this point — that my concerns were for a DEADLY pandemic, not just a bad flu season, and how it would disrupt everything at once. SO he asked me in frustration, well, what do I think should be done about this, that isn’t being done? And that was a really good question. It’s one I have a great answer for NOW, but did not come to me then.
Anyhow, I reiterated to him that I was not a basket case; I had made the mistake of trying to get my husband to pay attention to this more, and I had been going through an adjustment processes once I started thinking (around 6 weeks ago) that this idea of a pandemic as an interestign mental exercise actually might come true in reality. And yeah, it got me scared. But now that I know more about my husband, I realize he truly can’t be a part of any thinking about it right now.
Phew, sorry to write so much! I do feel I missed a chance to speak with him about things like extra meds for my husband, though he did give him a 4 week supply of Abilify samples, so that is something. Anyhow, the psychiatrist described himself as a “student of history” so I strongly encouraged him to read “The Great Influenza” (he said he had heard of it) and I hope to contact him later with some more information.
And oh, yes, he did offer me some meds! I forgot to take the samples, but I might just go back. You never can have too many meds. In fact, I think I will develop a serious psychiatric disorder every week just to get some more! (-:
ha ha.. CIA!! well mail him the link to this pressconferance video, (sorry its on norwegian, but also has a good powerpoint with some scaring numbers….) if he belives these people are on the CIA payroll he will have to find him self his own shrink. This is the departments of agriculture, Public health, etc in Norway presenting the plan on battleing the birdflu AND a pandemic….
It flabberghasts me how such smart people can be so stupid. CIA! My god, you should have suggested the psych have *himself* evaluated for paranoid delusions! Oi.
Psychiatry aside, ACM, I’m assuming you did you note that you were separate by a mere 1 degree from the Turkey “pandemic?”
Above should have read “I’m assuming you did note that you were separated by a mere 1 degree from teh Turkey ‘pandemic?’”
yeah, edna mode, I’ll admit that thought croseed my mind. But, then, we live in a very big and very international city, so that is to be expected.
It sounds like you did great! The psychiatrist sounds a bit strange though…
Maybe you got him thinking anyway. He might do a little research on pandemic threat now, because of you. Well done. And, you can ask him for a 90day med supply, just tell him you’re switching to a mail order pharmacy and that’s what they require as minimal rx fill. Do this after you have filled this month’s prescription so you’ll have extra. And when your husband has appt. next month, he can tell him the mailorder is running late and can he have samples just in case so he doesn’t miss a day. Then suddenly you have a couple of extra months at hand for emergency.
Well done ! Good luck, with everything.
Hope Mr.Dr. ;-) reads up, and gets to the Wiki, someday…
Thanks Lisa! The info on the medications is useful.
Yes, the CIA stuff seemed a bit odd to me, but hey, I’m willing to believe they fabricate things. (-: The doc is supposedly extremely good with medications and judging from my husband (and the fact that his condition has been kept at a pretty even keel for many years) I’d have to say he’s done a good job there. I do get the sense that I got him, if not thinking, at least wondering a bit.
Just to share a little more (has nothing to do with anything flu-related but what the heck) hubby and I have decided to spend a little money, take an art class together, and get a sitter for the kids one night a week — this was one of the doc’s suggestions to me — that we do something creative together, and I think it was a good one.
Lisa in Southern Maine – at 19:02 The psychiatrist sounds a bit strange though
yep. reminds me of something Aldous Huxley once said, “The trouble with Freudian psychology is that it is based exclusively on a study of the sick. Freud never met a healthy human being—only patients and other psychoanalysts.”
Milo — So true! (-:
I think the psychiatrist is trying to do his best by your husband. That is all.
ACM, I so repect you for doing so well in what must be a difficult situation. Your strength is an example to us all. : )
Diana — Yes, I believe you are correct. He’s a good man and I have a lot of respect for everyone who does the job he does, I know it is not easy.
Science Teacher — Thank you! (-:
ACM—I can understand your frustration. At our last staff meeting, the subject of AF came up again, and my boss, with his usual frustration with me for bringing up anything not to do with the making of money, attempted to redirect me. I finally got attention when I pointed out the CFR; that is when a silence came across the room, and suddenly I saw just that little flicker of fear and understanding on the boss man’s face.
That is the flu wiki: waking up the world one neuron at a time.
ACM - I learned some significant information regarding my husband’s diagnosis, which I had been suspecting based on his meds and my own observations, but hadn’t known for sure. (Seems husband didn’t know either.) This was very important information for me to know, as it may well impact one of my children. So, just for that I’m glad I went.
My original advice was not to go, so in a way, since you are happy with the meeting you had, then perhaps I gave you bad advice. However, consider the following - I am not asking to get a reply from you, I am asking so that you ask yourself and find the answers for yourself:
You got information about your husband’s diagnosis which is going to be of help to all your family. Hmmm.
Your husband has been consulting him for many yearsand has been given meds, for a diagnosis which is proferred only now?
You had to spend 90 minutes to convince him you weren’t a nutcase? To justify yourself? To soothe him so that he does not take you for a nut, you have to tiptoe in telling him that you had made the mistake of trying to get my husband to pay attention to this more, and that I realize he truly can’t be a part of any thinking about it right now.
Cannot that doctor simply tell you something like: “Mrs. X, whether your interest in bird flu is or not justified, your husband is at present too much under stress because of his illness to add this one more worry, which pandemic is probably hypothetical at this stage anyway.” - well perhaps more diplomatically… Wouldn’t this approach have given exactly the same result in 15 minutes as having you spend 90 minutes for 250$ of your own money to justify yourself, no? And that much money to persuade _him_ to consider the possibility of a pandemic!
Well, now, I can see your further goal of obtaining a provision of meds just in case there is a pandemic, but if that doctor
then, for all the above reasons, and since I am of a rebellious nature, I’d just be willing to spend a few more hundred dollars with another psychiatrist to see if another could do even better than this one!
I understand that this doctor has given good results in maintaining your husband in better shape for some years - so that’s good. That he’s doing his best for your husband, that’s good. That you are also happy of knowing more about your husband’s illness and implications for the family as a whole. That you have a good source of medicines which are not always easy to obtain. And of course, that you are also satisfied that in the greater scheme of things, you are making him generally more aware of the problems of patients running out of meds during a pandemic, therefore you are doing a service to the community.
However.
Putting it this way: I would not mind using a strategy such as this if it were to obtain medicines in case of TSHTF but, nevertheless, if it were me, I’d definitely would seek second, third and possibly fourth advice.
Coming from a medical family myself, I always check and re-check anything that seems an important health matter, having seen way too many errors and ignorance in the health field. So, perhaps I am a paranoid type!
Best of luck, happiness and health to you and yours.
ACM I have been in exactly the same position as Frenchiegirl describes in the above.Both my grown up children went throughout there miserable childhoods with the condition of complex partial epilepsy that is a behaviour related problem not a seizure one so was told when it was eventually diagnosed it had also caused a secondary illness of Bi polar disease it has the same symptoms and is expected in all siblings in some sort or another.Years of being told it was naughtiness to find out it has caused unnecessary brain damage.you need to stock up on the meds even half is better than a withdrawal
Frenchie Girl— thanks for your thoughts! I see where you are coming from. Just a quick thing — until recently this doctor was one of the only 2 decent psychopharmacologists on our insurance plan. Then he was the only one. So, we didn’t have a lot of choices. Don’t know what it is like in France. But here that’s a big deal. Just in the past few months he left our insurance plan, which is why the bigger payment. I didn’t know it was that much. My husband now sees him just a few times a year, so it hasn’t been that big a burden. Also, my husband does not like change once he knows a doctor and I can see that.
So, anyhow, looking around for a new doc — not that easy!
This is as good a thread as any to tell you folks what’s happened. I’ve mentioned before that I have cats not kids. My mother died last year & six days later my second eldest cat (16 years old) died and then just a couple of months ago my 22 year old cat had to be put to sleep. I took all 5 remaining into the vet for their annual well care last week, & took 3 back yesterday for dental cleaning & one to have a vaccination site lump removed. When we came home, one baby, our 9 year old, started drooling & breathing heavily. We ended up at the emergency clinic & had to put him to sleep at 5:30am due to a condition we didn’t know he had but that the stress of the day must have aggrevated to a point where it was killing him-lump in lung, stress creating fluid around the lung, pulmonary effusion, same thing my 22 year old died from and no, it’s not a contagious thing, just a thing that happens to older cats. I’m in shock, which is the only reason I can write right now - I just can’t grasp that he’s gone even though I felt his passing with his little head in my hands-I’m numb but I can’t stop crying.
I say all that to say this: the things I went through last night & today, feelings, fears, doubts, decisions, were all compounded by the fact that I was repeating trauma I’d already gone through 3 times within a year.
If we find family members dying around us at a rate like I’ve experienced, or worse, some of us will go start raving mad if we don’t figure out a plan now to help us cope.
Average Concerned Mom – at 07:25 - Well, if your insurance is not even covering the biggest part of your 250$, you might as well spend the money looking for some psychiatrist not covered by it.
I agree though, it’s tremendously difficult to find one that is appropriate, whether in your country or mine.
What it’s like in France? Well, apart from the big professors in University Medical Schools, it’s ten times worse than in the United States, not least because mental illness is such a taboo here, compared with anglo-saxon countries.
Actually, GP’s are probably the best stop, if you only need psychiatric meds, no psychological therapy and no hospital (for the “light” conditions). Otherwise, you’re in deep trouble if you have an intermediate mental illness which is invalidating but does not require hospital, or major depression but without much suicidal tendencies, or “gentle” schizophrenia, or more-or-less controllable bipolar disorder.
If you have something very important, then you end up in a mental hospital, get shot right up to the eyeballs with cocktails of neuroleptics and tranquillizers, and are guaranteed to never (almost never) come out… As far as any type of behavioural help is concerned, you get Freudian psychanalysts, and psychotherapists with no formal University training, psychologists who administer tests and examine dysfunctional families for divorce proceedings, and that’s about it. So it’s either you have “several thousands of marbles missing and continuing to go astray until you’re a jellyfish” (hospital), or you “missed your target trying to p_ss right in the middle of the loo when you were three years old” (psychanalyst) or “Your dad looked at you funny and your mum withdrew your sweet when you were naughty, so you’re in the X stage (take your pick, anal retentive, oral or what-have-you-Freudian” (psychotherapist), or “the results of your test XYZ show that… list of qualifiers, so you’re abnormal… so go see shrink or we’ll take the kids away from you” (psychologist).
If you’re lucky, then your GP says: “diagnosis: Epilepsy, or BiPolar, or Exogenous Depression, or Moderate Schizophrenia, or Autism” (anything else mostly is non existent), and you get your meds with him and a nice talk, a longer heart-to-heart talk if you take the last appointment of the GP in the evening.
At one point, I did look for a psychiatrist knowing his/her stuff, for someone I know with (light) OTC. I had to flea-comb the medical litterature, to find a French one that attended international conferences (and had actually written a very good book), 200 kms from my home, who did not take any more appointments, and one of his “devotee”, within 60 kms, who had a one-year waiting list.
Then I phoned all the psychiatrists offices in my area (which is, say, about one sixth the size of France), methodically, with the yellow pages, and could not find one that had a waiting list of less than six months, never mind the ability, never mind the fee. Otherwise, if it’s really bad, you just have to try and get your GP to make an order to send you to a mental hospital, because it’s the only way, that is if the hospital is not already full. In the end, the person with (light) OTC managed to get meds from the GP and, thankfully, that GP was not too ignorant and helped a little with “advice” (armchair psychotherapy, but it was better than nothing, and it was practical and sound advice). See, for my hubby’s cancer, I could not find one psy-something to help him cope, and G.d knows I tried.
So yes, it is very difficult to find a good psychiatrist outside of a hospital setting. Should I need to find one in the future, for friends/family or myself, I’d still try again, and again, and again, until better results. Else I would just educate myself for any helpful behavioural therapy, join discussion lists and try and cope, while asking meds from my GP. After all, if we are capable of reading and comprehending so much complicated stuff about bird flu on FluWiki, trying all of us with our means to help ourselves and the planet against a pandemic, then we’re also able to learn new sciences if imperatively needed, psychological stuff too!
P.S. I mean no offence to anyone in these professions. And I actually hold a BSc. Hons. in Psychopathology, even though not used professionally.
I’m- working -on -it, I am so sory for the loss of your furry little companion.
Some of you that have never had that kind of relationship with a pet may not have any idea how big the hurt is when you lose your pet. Grieving stages do occur.
My heart goes out to you.
ACM-
What I would suggest is that you assemble a comprehensive list of information on the panflu issue touching on these topics-
-History of pandemics;
-Nature of the present threat;
-publications by reputable authorities; (Osterholm et al)
-Present preparedness status in your country/locality (or lack thereof)
- what you think are reasonable and prudent steps to take with the above information in mind.
I have convinced my BIL using this technique that this is a serious concern that he should prepare his family for, and if there ever was an intelligent skeptic he’s the guy. I’d inform my DH’s shrink that while you intend to do what you can to reduce the impact of your preparation activities on your husband, your duty to him to prepare for a potentially deadly event requires you to make preparations.
I think you have three goals here- 1) make sure your DH continues to get the treatment he needs. THis means that you need to not alienate the doc. You need the doc’s support to find a way to continue prepping without upsetting DH.
2) You need to be sure that the doc is not considering having you committed.
3)It would be worthwhile to you to have an educated and enlightened medical professional on your side when you discuss the matter with others.
I’m-workin’-on-it - I am so sorry for your grief. Of course you can’t stop crying. Your cats are part of your household and family. Part of coping with losing our loves is sitting there, initially immobilized by our sadness, and crying and crying. That is coping, allowing ourselves to feel the impact of our loss in it’s fullest, not shutting those powerful emotions out but allowing that dark night to exist and journeying through it. You are doing well. I am so sorry for your pain. Please take good care. Lisa.
I’m-workin’-on-it
I too am deeply saddened by the sudden and very painful loss of your sweet baby. It is the deepest ache of all. We who love our four-leggeds and our two-leggeds(birds) are all silently sitting around you giving you a long long hug. And this will last as long as you need it. Your ‘others’ must be grieving too. Thank goodness you all have each other to help through these painful transitions.
You are so right I-w’-o-i. This is a clear example of feelings and losses that we’ll (possibly/probably) have and I am very grateful to you for your post. My canine partner died recently and it really ‘sucks’. I knew that it was coming but when the day came the vet screwed up royally by giving her an inadequate injection and it took thirty minutes of hell for me and my sweet one before she could let go. It was very traumatic and I’m still feeling it. It is much easier now though, believe me.
It might be a good prep for all of us re. our current/future losses whether due to ai or anything else, to contact our local Hospice folks and find our what groups or one-on-one are currently being offered.
We are with you…
Its very difficult to get a good fit in doctors. If your lucky you do. I have a wonderful young internist who I trust implicitly. A day ago I went for a six month check on my narrow angle glaucoma. The young doctor assistant who did the pre workup. said the pressure had increased and why didn’t I have the laser treatment to open up the angle. I said because the doctor she was working for wasn’t ready to do it. I now have an appointment for three months, after getting a new script for glasses and my retina photographed for base lines. Next comes a peripheral vision scan. Now the doctor whose office it is doesn’t seem inclined to worry me, while the new young woman in his office is. Both times I have had the pressure checked my primary eye doctor seems to be of the don’t get people worked up school of thought, and the new one is the why aren’t you doing something school of thought. I am confused. My eyes always hurt for a few days afterwards, but now I am far more nervous about things. It is always a balance in medicine. I missed a lecture on the aging eye last monday. So I will be googling things up and reading. As soom as I learned of the diagnosis 6 months ago I read up on the problem. It is hard for someone who doesn’t have a medical background as Frenchie Girl does to really make a good judgement call. We have to trust the judgement of the expert we have consulted.
I am truly sorry when anyone loses a beloved animal. I actually envy people who can let loose and cry. I seem to lack that ability and I miss the releasing of deep emotions that it gives one. I think I have cried less than a dozen times in my lifetime, too stoic. It is the healthiest thing that a woman can do in times of great stress and sorrow.
Diana — at 12:15. You can acquire the background just as I did. Though it is true that coming from such a family makes things easier to learn, the fact is that most of my knowledge has been self-acquired. And, I say, use your guts. If I hadn’t had intuitions, there would have been no learning of medical things for me. If the doctor does not quite feel right to you, search and search and search for more info/doctors. If I could do it, so can you, with more or less difficulty, but it _can_ be done.
Yes,sometimes the neophyte can learn a great deal and actually become an expert. I also learned just recently that one of my grandchildren has gone blind in one eye. I am naturally concerned, but at a distance can do nothing. There is a divorce so I have to tread carefully. Will check with my son about the causes and probably do some research. Won’t ruffle feathers but will research matters.
Thank you all for your understanding & your gentle wishes that things get better for me and the grief moves away. As I said in another thread, it’s not WHAT we love but how we love that causes the grief to be so painful.
I’m paralyzed at the place I’m in right now - having been here so recently before, it’s hard to move on when I haven’t gotten near accepting the LAST death I’m supposed to be facing.
We all know that grieving can take different lengths of time for different people, but that time is supposed to be uninterrupted by more grief. When it starts to get ‘layered’ like this, one grief on top of another, well, I can’t exactly describe it other than to say that I was feeling like I was moving underwater before (hard to do anything without great effort) and now that’s becoming the ‘normal’ feeling I have. It’s hard to distinguish the underwater feeling as what’s supposed to be the foreign feeling because it’s beginning to feel like it’s the ‘norm’.
Mental health is fragile, at best, for all of us.
Thanks for your concerns and your prayers, Rose
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It is important to be as stable and centered as you can be before going into any future situation. If you are unraveled or unraveling before a pandemic it will hit you harder than it would someone who has no issues. Talking to others who you can trust, who won’t hurt you is important. While I am not in the least religous I have found a female minister who is new to the ministry. She is so sincere that one feels serene merely listening to what she has to say. We are a small group who seem to have a need for some ritual, some form of spirituality to offset the crassness of todays society, the assault on our senses at every turn. I am not suggesting your church, but one can turn to so many groups. I personally have always stumbled onto something which enriches me in a way that I need at that particular moment. It makes life meaningful to share your honest thoughts with others who do not belittle your problems.
I’m-workin-on-it: I am so sorry about your beloved cat. I have dogs and kids (used to have a cat, but after she passed away the kids became allergic) and my dogs are like my kids, too. People who treat their pets like “animals” may not understand, but I treat my dogs like babies, so I not only understand, but you have my sincere sympathy for your loss. Treasure your memories and may the knowledge that your faithful companion realized how much he was loved and treasured bring you some comfort and ease your pain.
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