What have you done to try to get others to prepare and what was the result? Do you have any suggestions for the rest of us?
My preparations are critical to me, but I am safer if more people in my community are also prepared. There are numerous references in other threads about our efforts to convert others. How many of you have started an outreach?
In the beginning I hid my preparations because I felt I was in competition with the world. Once I felt secure about my preparations, I told my parents and siblings with no results. I e-mailed articles as I felt compelled. Some eventually got Tamiflu. After many months I opened the news of pandemic planning to immediate co-workers, neighbors and close friends. They almost all ignored it. One asked not to discuss it any more. One co-worker took it to heart and is actively preparing. One friend is polite about it and actually bought masks. After many more months I worked up the courage and e-mailed the VP of my company and the directors of my two children’s schools and asked them if they would make a pandemic plan. To date no action taken. I stopped outreach for many months and vowed to not do outreach again. Then today I e-mailed our local newpaper a great article and asked them to print that type of article encouraging people to stockpile food for an emergency. Outreach or no outreach that is the question!
Outreach!
See:
To be efficient, we should reach out only to those who are ready to listen. But we don’t know who they are so we reach out widely, and listen.
Yes: listen. What do *they* feel?
My idea: 1. educate yourself as much as possible 2. Be calm when discussing it with others! 3. Find out what is available in your community ie meetings, committees that you can go to, join and voice your concerns. 4. Use reliable sources of information! 5. Set a good example; ie have prepared for yourself as you tell others to prepare 6. have an idea of what you are may need- ie is it city water and sewer vs a well and septic tank, what are your alternatives 7. keep up with changes and share them with others.
My hope was that if you mention that you are concerned about bird flu and think there should be pandemic preparations to individual people, that it will set a small mosquito buzzing in the back of their brain. Then when they see an article on bird flu in the paper or TV instead of ignoring it, they are more likely to pay attention. Over time, the messages will get through as their minds become ready. So the first discussion is general unless they ask more questions.
I have not tried to get others I know to prepare. It’s not my role to do so. To the degree that I have a role in how my family, friends, neighbors regard this issue, it’s to help them decide for themselves if they want to prepare and by how much. They will become concerned in their own time for their own reasons — or not. I feel a need to respect that.
I really love GraceRN’s list; particularly #5. I believe the simple fact that another *knows* someone who’s calmly preparing is sufficient to get the mosquito buzzing which Worried speaks of above.
There’s nobody I know who’s preparing; I’ve made no secret of the fact that I am preparing. Part of that preparation is the knowledge that should my familiars become concerned, I’ll probably be the first guy they come to with questions or for help.
The only thing I’d want to add to Grace’s list is — in this subject of so many ambiguities and debatable points —to not fear saying “I don’t know”, and to fairly represent cogent views which you might not accept yourself. I would not want to propagate misinformation, nor to sway anyone towards conclusions which are not their own.
I think perhaps my biggest problem is that nobody will take me seriously with regards to flu discussions and planning. Well, my husband has finally come around to believing me about the bird flu, that it could be a threat (that’s about the extent of his interest) but beyond that, most of my friends and family feel it’s something I’m simply “obsessed” about. So I’ve been sitting here day after day after day in this forum trying to get to know you guys and the flavors and tastes and attitudes of many of the regulars; I like what I see here, that’s why I keep visiting! I want to prepare and I do have some planning in my head,(translation: not actually DONE) and an excellent place for storage (a second property, 40 acres with a barn, mobile home, a good well, etc.) and I have been following this flu around for actually quite some time now, at least a year or more. I’m sort of semi-retired due to health problems (that undoubtedly wouldn’t survive H3N2, much less H5N1) but my biggest worry in life, of course is my 21-year old son who is a university student and who has never experienced a flu or anything close to it in his life. So I hope you all won’t mind me jumping in now and again. Geez. I can get really wordy, but at least I’m not usually mean to anybody.
Hi folkes.
This is my first posting despite reading this fluwikki for some time now. I would like to first of all say thankyou to those who had the foresight to set this site up in the first place and in particular to those who have contributed so much content on planning and prepardness. I own a business in the uk and I am currently evaluating contingency planning to protect myself and my staff.
I have been prompted to actually say something due to this thread.
Many people are right when they say they are nervous about telling people that they are making plans. There are many reasons for this including the fear of ridicule. Being branded a survivalist nut. Being the first person to get a visit from the local mob when the food store shelves run empty.
What I have realised is that what “worried in the city” has stated is actually very true and absoutly vital with regard to getting other people prepared. Why ? Well a few of you have already explained that the more everyone has the less everyone will want what you have so its a sensible thing to get your neighbours on board.
There will always be those who laugh and dont prepare and from reading previous threads here I would agree that they will be the first to come knocking and asking you to give what you have. I have already started in a small way to test the water in my community and gauge the reaction from people about what they think may happen in such a worst case scenario.
To my supprise many people feel a little nervous and I have also noted that they are also a little wary of coming out and saying anything that might give the game away as to the fact that they may actually have some food and water stocks on hand. After all they dont want a baying mob at their door either. But I have also noted that some of the things they have said would suggest they too may be on forums like flu wikki.
Getting people on board is like all the other things you are doing …..self preservation and survival. I still wouldent advertise exactly what I had and would continue to keep a low profile but like “ worried in the city “ Im starting to realise that we cant survive on our own. Not forever. We need to look beyond that and getting those near us to prepare is vital to our own survival.
Lugon I appreciate your links mentioned above. There are some good ideas about getting people on board in the local communities you live in.
Im only guessing here but I would say there are people from all backgrounds and proffessions here. It seems evident that there are people who may well be doctors and other professionals taking part in these discussions. Common sense level headedess and pratical advice which makes up the bulk of these discussions is what keeps me coming back here.
And Finaly…..Keep planning and preparing folkes. Its tough and difficult at times but I admire what you folkes are doing individually and probably what you are going to be doing in your communities.
All the best
Haggis
P.s Im actually Scottish ! Any more brits lurking here ? Im sure its not just our American friends who are clever enough to look ahead :) ??
I have found that it is difficult for people to absorb a lot of information on this subject quickly, especially if there are action steps being identified in the same conversation/email. My friends that know me well have no problem with seriously considering the information and most are now planning and take their initial actions. Others are a mixed bag, especially if they are simply acquaintances; there is often either a panic reaction or denial, which is to be expected. I try now to explain that it could be 5 months or 5 years, but that it’s likely that we should have 1 year to plan and prepare. I have about 1/2 the neighbors’ attention and the other 1/2 seems preoccupied with holiday planning and events, on top of the usual mad rush around.
So I feel that a slow process of initial understanding, followed by greater detail is the best way to slowly add to people’s understanding of the risk we face. It may take as long as a week. Hold off on actions until they show some sign of getting over panic and/or denial.
Haggis, I’m a Highland Stewart and an Irish Grigsby by ancestry, if that counts.
I do not have a lot to add to prep advice as it is mostly all good depending on who is doing it and where their head is at. I have been a “survivalist” since I was young growing up in the cold war.I have never trusted my goverment( state of federal, local might be useful)to bail me out. I live on 40 acres with solar power and my own well.Yes, I could stay home for a prolonged period of time if I choose to. I did not develope this lifestyle in 2–3 years. It has taken a long time.It is never too late to take steps to take care of yourself and/or loved ones when times get tough. If you have food at home and you loose your job you can eat the food and use your cash to make needed payments. Being prepared to take care of yourself is never a waste. And yes, I have a life. I am a full time health care professional and run marathons for kicks.
Several parts of this thread appear to worry that most/many people are perhaps too unconcerned about the possibility of a pandemic to be a receptive audience to a person who *is* concerned.
Two fairly recent Gallup polls suggest more than half of Americans believe avian flu will hit America, and that half of Americans are concerned about contracting it. I won’t bother posting links because the Gallup articles are paid-subscribers-only. The publication dates were 11/04/05 and 11/18/05 in case anyone wants to try to find a news report on the articles. The 11/04 article referenced a joint CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll, so there may be stories on it floating around.
The 11/04 article, from a poll conducted 10/21–23 indicates 62% of the respondants believed avian flu would strike the USA — 16% said “very likely”, 46% “somwhat likely”, 29% “not too likely”, 7% “not likely at all”, 2% “no opinion”.
The 11/18 article, from a poll conducted 11/7–10 indicates half of the respondants were worried “about contracting a deadly virus, such as bird flu or something similar, that spreads to the United States from a foreign country.” 14% “very worried”, 36% “somewhat worried”, 29% “not too worried”, 21% “not worried at all.”
To those inclined to carry a message of warning to family, friends, the community — your words might not fall upon as many glazed eyes and deaf ears as might be suspected.
Among the problems I have encountered in trying to get people to care about the avian flu is their confusion, promulgated by confusion in the press, between the current avian pandemic and the potential human pandemic after mutation/reassortment. Folks look at the 170± number circulating from Asia and say “that doesn’t sound bad enough to panic over”.
Similarly, press folks can’t seem to get straight the difference between a vaccine for H5N1, seasonal flu vaccine and medicianl agents such as Tamiflu. Again, one encounters “I got a flu shot”, or “I couldn’t get a flu shot”, or “people are hoarding the vaccine (Tamiflu) and just making things worse.”
I don’t know whether it will take the influenza equivalent of actually seeing the Tsunami rolling up the beach to get some folks to take things seriously
Generally people don’t understand WHY. They think they do, but not really, not the combination of factors that make the problem unique. That’s why I wrote this pseries of posts http://www.fluwikie.com/index.php?n=Forum.WhyYouShouldTakeThisSeriously. Now I just send people the link and let them decide. It feels a bit less in-your-face. Then if they come back with more questions or what do they need to do, I give them more links to this site or others.
Recently my wife’s side of the family gathered together and the subject of avian flu was ;it was quickly met with criticism of fear momgering and naysaying; after all, things continue from the creation of man and we’re all still here and doing just fine, thank you very much. We’ve been chastised in the past for having the largest bedroom in the house stacked to the ceiling with oil, wheat and toilet paper; ought to buy a travel trailer with that money (they’re all lifelong RVer’s). Same for coworkers (Md’s and nusing staff). Our Hospital has had one well advertised tabletop excercise attended by the pharmacy diector, infection control head, one RT tech, and myself). The one person who has voluntarily lent a willing ear is my oldest daughter, who lives out of state (wife and children living at home are politely attentive, at least, and for that I am deeply appreciative-they live in a sea of endless video tapes,talks about handwashing, etc), and as for the outside world, that’s where I’m concentrating my efforts.
Have been storing alot of info on my desktop for months now, some from self study, much from the Wiki. All sorts of stuff, from broad-ranging overviews of influenza, to very specific articles on water filtration, manuals in.pdf form and multimedia clips. Unfortunately, I have nowhere near the number of interested relatives, friends or coworkers. Each bit of information is categorized as to topic, in its own file, and once a week I’ll send her a couple of items from one topic, let her digest that, and next week send her another always with my feelings on why I think it’s important, and more importantly, why I think its important for her. Example: the first week I might sent her the link to FluWiki and Dr. Grattons work on Influenza, both broad, generalized repositories of info on the flu ; week two,some info on the 1918 outbreak(she’s a history buff) and Roche’s FluTracker link to keep tabs on this season’s outbreak and spread, so that she can get a sense of the similiarities in transmission patterns should the time come. A couple of bits, a week apart, always with emphasis on her well being. And when those articles are delivered, I’ll put them in a ‘sent’ file to keep from duplicating. Dale Carnegie said in “How to Win Friends and Influence People” that you must show an interest in the people you wish to persuade and take their well-being to heart; people tend to be basically self-centered by nature, and want to know what’s in it for them. And in that vein, I’ll send her an item or two now and then, a box of masks one week, some gloves next month, some basins and spray bottles a few weeks later, a book on occasion; this week its a few water storage boxes to keep in a closet-maybe even fill just one, just keep them on hand, just in case (I think of it as spamming by FedEx, though it’s very slow, very deliberate), so that she almost gains a preparedness mindset without thinking about it, a sense of normalcy in it. I have to keep in mind she lives in an apartment, so sending that year’s food supply will have to wait a bit. And when we talk on the phone, maybe aquick mention of a news item.
I guess the succinct version is: Each one, pick one, and win one. And do it patiently and with love.
Oh, and if she’s reading this, glad to hear about he gym classes. Love, Dad.
“Any state, any community, or, for that matter, any citizen that failed to prepare, assuming the federal government can take care of them during a pandemic, will be tragically wrong,” said Michael Leavitt, secretary of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.
Will…..Nice to know im not the only one here. Also have Irish decendany.
Haggis,
Stewart on me mum’s side.
Things like this (see link) can be an excellent starting point for persuading people to prepare for unexpected problems, as it brings home the fact that those same unexpected problems are not only real but can be devastating to those who suffer them. And from that realization to the idea of preparing for a possible pandemic is just a short step…
Haggis
Am a Brit too (Cheltenham). Sort of preparing but feel a bit silly at the same time, largely because I think initial expert opinions were based on supposition. They don’t seem to be repeating the same claims now.
Hey, all you Brits out there, count me in (Surrey). Are there any UK weblogs that you know about?
Haggis “Being the first person to get a visit from the local mob when the food store shelves run empty.” Agree. I have thought long and hard about this but I have little faith in our uk law and order situation on a good day.
Melanie….no longer feeling lonely :)
Realist youve probably seen the two Panorama progs etc. Unfortunatly Im not convinced the British Gov are doing as much or saying as much as they could. Remember the dead bird in the quarantine centre….which several weeks later turned out to be over 50 birds dead. Their complacency worries me and defras attitute is simply condecending.
Anyway I dont want to stray off topic too much here so Im going to open a new thread for Uk folkes and put some links there which you and others may find useful.
O’Rorke here!
Its nice to see some Brits here. I have put some links up to sites that you may find useful under Uk Survival and Preparedness.
What I have found frustrating is that there seems to be no suppliers of long term food storage i.e Nitrogen packed freeze dried food supplies in long term storage tins for sale. Its possible to import these items but at great cost due to carriage.Instead I have been looking at alternatives and using the old tried and tested methods of food preparation and storage.
I guess the Goverment bunkers are stocked with items from America too but they dont have to worry about cost. We taxpayers pay for their privilages.
Hi My name is Kashmir. I live in the USA. I just went thur hurrican Katrina. I would advise any one to make preparation for the pandemic and any oyher diaster that could happen. I started preparing for Hurrican season back in Feb. My family and friends laughed at me and made jokes. I kept making my preparations. Boy did it pay off. We had no city water for five days. Five years ago i had a well dug on our property. We had no electricity for 3 weeks. I had stored 40 gallons of gasoline in a shed, bought us a generator my husband complained about the expense. I had stored more than enough of everthing we needed. We even had movies to watch that I had picked up over several months at yard sales. We didn’t have to stand in the grocery line or gas line. Guess who’s not laughing any more. I am trying to prepare for the pandemic. Can anyone give me some suggestions on what they are doing?
Kashmir, There is a really great thread on what others are doing at FluPrep Today on the main forum list. It should be in the top 10 usually. LOTS of good info from some terrific people. Glad to hear you had such success with your past prepping endeavors. You probably could teach some valuable lessons to many here who are prepping for the first time. Please add your experieces on the Flu Prep Today thread and welcome!
Correction: That should be Todays Flu Prep, sorry.
Nemo thanks for the informatio on Todays Flu prep. I will be glad to share my experience.
Sometimes it’s easier to refer someone to a web page. I created two slide packs online that are good educational tools.
First, the web site has all kinds of links, especially to government and scientific sources: http://www.birdflupreparation.com
Then, my “Straight Talk about Bird Flu” is a good overview: http://www.birdflupreparation.com/presentation.html
And the easiest bit of information you can share is: http://www.birdflupreparation.com/birdfluquiz.html — People can test themselves on 10 simple questions.
Hope that helps. I hope to create more as time allows.
And, these sites have been up for about 5 months now, and you’d be surprised how many of the public, or, even municipal employees still have not heard of/looked at them: http://www.who.int/csr/disease/influenza/pandemic10things/en/
US gov: http://pandemicflu.gov/ …”A pandemic, by definition, occurs in many localities — perhaps even nationwide — almost simultaneously. Because of this, much of the planning for a pandemic must be the responsibility of state and local governments.”…
http://pandemicflu.gov/plan/tab3.html …”Social Disruption May Be Widespread, Being Able to Work May Be Difficult or Impossible, Schools May Be Closed for an Extended Period of Time, Transportation Services May Be Disrupted, People Will Need Advice and Help at Work and Home, Be Prepared, Stay Healthy, Get Informed”…
I am going to try another poster’s suggestion to actually make a “starter prep kit” (their’s was very basic food ration ingredients; maybe the recipients will now go buy stuff they’d rather eat!)but I want to give some disinfection, OTC medicine, and probably a copy of Dr. Woodson’s guide (haven’t printed hard copy yet).
Hm, here’s an interview with Dr. Grattan Woodson, from Oct. 2005. http://www.earthsky.org/humanworld/interviews.php?id=49075 …”a once in a hundred year pandemic that’s a whole different animal than a normal pandemic. And it’s 50 times worse than the regular flu season, both in terms of the number of people who die and how sick they become. And probably 10 times as many people get sick as during a regular flu season.
And this once in a hundred year pandemic is what’s been called the Killer Flu. It was called the Spanish Flu in 1918. That was the last time we had one. And I don’t believe anyone can say that’s what’s going to happen - but that’s what I’m concerned about and that’s what the medical community and frankly our political authorities are concerned about. And the chances of us having that are about one in three for this next pandemic.”…
Hi Greetings from Sunshine Coast ,east coast of Australia, been reading about flu everyday for near four years now , and still can’t seem to get anyones attention , 1080 kids at just one of our local schools , yet noone in Aussie land seems to get it , I live week to week everyone I know is same , our local hosiptals can’t cope with us now , our area is already over burderned all infrastructer same , area boomed ,seaside retirement , most local and country wide newspapers have news of flu on page 8 , or 14 . 1000 people a week move to the sunshine coast , most don’t even know where are floods come , or what to do in a cyclone , most don’t have the stress space to care about another asian flu . When are they going to warn the people in Australia , look on the map looks like a short swim from Indo , come on Aussies I want my family to survive , I want all of us to surrive , if we can fly to the moon , and tranplant hearts we can stand up and beat this flu.
Just had a very interesting conversation with my sister who has, up to today, refused to prepare or even discuss the potential of a pandemic. Something happened that has FINALLY “caught her attention”. Her husband works for a MAJOR pharmaceutical company (not Roche, producers of Tamiflu). Anyway, my sister has said all along that she is not worried in that this pharmaceutical company does not seemed concerned. Well, the news is that 180 skids of Tamiflu arrived “confidentially” at the loading docks yesterday!!! That is a huge amount of Tamiflu! Enough to protect all of their on-site employees. I was delighted to hear this in that my older son also works for this pharmaceutical company in clinical studies. I have been so worried that he would lose his job, in that it is something he could not do from home. It is obvious that this company have plans to put all of their employees on Tamiflu so that they can continue to come to work….not sure if this will extend to the employees family members or not.
So, now my sister is taking this VERY seriously. I think it is something that will hit individuals in different ways and that we can’t “force” it on them. I have been trying for months with her to no avail. She hears that her husband’s company has invested millions in it, and now she is running to the grocery store to stock up! Go figure!!
To answer the original question “How do you get others to prepare?” I tried when my husband first voiced his concern to talk to a few people I know about it. They were not the least bit concerned. I wish I could actually make them prep. What we have decided to do is make up a prep gift box for those who really matter to us. In it we will include information, and some supplies that any family can use (rice, beans, flour, sugar, dry milk), maybe something they would specifically need like baby formula, and a price comparison guide for preps that can be found in our local area stores (just a matter of printing my own list). Then when they wake up to the danger (we feel certain most will before long), we can give them the care package as a way to help them start their preps. They will be better off than if they have to start with no information at all so will at least have a sort of head start over those who have to do it all from scratch.
Greetings to the “flu prepping” community. This evening, I was wondering yet again how I might ever reach any of my friends, coworkers or neighbors with the idea that they might want to prepare even a little for a potential upcoming flu pandemic. Like others posting on this website, I find that no one around me appears to be thinking at all about what might be coming their way in the not-too-distant future. (And a scary thing about that is that there are a lot of physicians at my place of work, which is associated with a healthcare facility….)
Finally, an idea crystallized in my mind that I thought I would share here: a simple one-page flier could help to motivate people to prepare. A good flier might contain a few facts in simple English, a few well-chosen quotes, a few simple suggestions of things people can do to prepare, and a few places to look on the web for further information - e.g., here. It should be simple, short, and to the point. A flier couldn’t be a comprehensive guide to either all of the facts at hand or all of the preparations that could and should be made, but rather would (hopefully) act as a catalyst, to get at least a few more people thinking about the issue. A good flier would grab your attention. As all of you know, what is needed is a change in mentality; tons of information is freely available to anyone who cares. A flier could be put up anywhere: on a bulletin board at work, in a laundry room, or in a myriad of public places. And, it has the fantastic advantage that you can put it up anonymously, so that your coworkers won’t think you’ve gone crazy about this bird flu business - that is, as long as you haven’t already yet tried to angle the occasional conversation towards The Coming Flu.
I plan to make a flier like this sometime in the upcoming week (work is super-busy). I’ll post it on the web when I’m done and put a link to it here. If you have made such a flier already, I’d love to see yours. It would be best if such a flier were available from a well respected public health organization, but I haven’t seen one. Do any of you know of any? When I do make a flier, I would also be grateful if a public health specialist involved with the Flu Wiki would possibly be so kind as to look over or edit it.
Biologist- A pretty good thead on creating a community flyer can be found here:
As you can see, a number of people are working on this. There are good resource links in this thread for you to follow.
Something that has worked surprisingly well for me has been maintaining a semi-private blog for my friends and relatives. Bombarding them with emails didn’t work, so I simply gave them a URL where they could go and read my daily take on the news.
It has taken awhile, but I’ve converted a number of friends and relatives, who are now prepping. They in turn, are telling their friends.
Good luck!
Make them watch teh most recent episode of Charlie Rose. He had a panel of true experts talking about the situation. While I don’t think there was anything new for any of us who are on top of things, I think it will be eye-opening for others. You can buy a trasncript on his website plus I think someone was trying to link it on this site - look for it. Also, just show them footage of NOLA after Katrina.
I called my school janitor this morning to ask what the alcohol content of the hand sanitizer we used was.She could not tell from the box but I assume it is on there somewhere.She told me she has a meeting with her top boss for the district on Monday and would pass on the info about needing to be 60% or higher.She then brought up bird flu to me.Of course I was thrilled to talk to her about it and give my suggestions on the importance of great hygeine.I had gone to our local emergency planning meeting in February and even started to volunteer there (filing and such)but I gave that up pretty quick after hearing how “there wont be anything we can do” and “we have all these plans set up”(for bioterrorism) Next I focused on my church,I have been a pest in my pastors ear since early January,He has addressed the issues with our council,in our March newsletter he put an “are you prepared” blurb and our April letter comes out next week and it will have a preparedness list.The letter will go out to about 100 addresses.We run a food pantry thru the church and although it has not been said “donate for preparedness” there has been a huge call to donate thru the church.I am also planning a “eating for a small planet” type fellowship meal but it will not be happening until after Easter.I also noticed that the store I like to shop at is offering a 10.00 bag of groceries that you can buy to donate to red cross.But when I do my shopping I never yet have noticed any other preppers.I think people are becoming aware and the “mosquitos are a buzzin” even if they have yet to do thier shopping.I hope they have time.
I posted this on another similar thread
OK people, we know the govt. won’t be able to come to our rescue, so it’s time to shoulder the load. This will cost some personal cash but needs to be done.
Go to pandemicflu.gov and print out the various checklists.
Get the school checklist and take it directly to the pricipal of the school in your area. Be sure to include the fluwiki site as well. School board members also.
Get the hospital checklist and take it to the Hospital Administrator. (medical people help me out if this should go to someone else)
Do similar with other checklists. I realize we can’t do the buisness one to all buisnesses but maybe you could get it to your own employer.
Get the community checklist to your mayaor. At the same time you can find out what is being done. You may even volunteer to help.
The money and time will be well spent.
What do you think of this approach about global warming?
take 2- http://tinyurl.com/jdbts
KyJack, I don’t see how it applies to H5N1. If you want to debate global warming, there are plenty of sites on the web where such a posting would be more applicable.
I have been taking my eldery dad out to prep. Last night he accused me of being “like my mother” (his ex-wife), extravagant, buying whatever I wanted with no thought of cost. I have spent WEEKS cost comparing because he’s cheap as dirt. I handed him my spreadsheet of cost comparisons of dozens of items at five local stores. He normally keeps no extra food at all and calls me when he is completely out of food and has nothing to eat at all. He’s diabetic. Sometimes he calls late at night or when I can’t come, and then tells me the next day he’s had nothing to eat at all because I didn’t come immediately.
I have reluctantly made the decision to stop asking him to prep becasue he’s decided I’m taking advantage of him by making him buy extra food. It’s all in his house, and not mine, but this is “spending all his money.” He’s very well off and can easily afford it.
Unfortunately I just can’t afford to prep for him at all, not even a little. It worries me terribly, but I’m just going to have to look out for myself. I am not going to put up with any more comments about how I’m a bad person that was ruined by my mother for trying to look out for him. Any ideas for how to cope with an elderly, irrational parent?
“Penny-wise and pound foolish”
If he needs insulin too, I can’t see things going well, too stubborn and irrational to listen now. (Show him what it costs to be in an assisted living facility or a nursing home, for comparison to what you try to do?) Does his physician know how irrationally he’s acting; goes right down to no food in the house, though he can afford to eat?
Unfortuantely I feel like Eccles – at 12:27, right now,
and, add in family members who haven’t been getting the information we have nor reading Dr.Nabarro, Dr.Osterholm, or Dr.Webster, ect, thinking I am crazy (for being concerned about the lives in the communities on this pandemic issue).
crfullmoon, the doctor knows. Says there’s nothing he can do. Was very dismissive. It was so hard to get him to go to this doctor I dread trying to get him to go to another. Doesn’t take insulin yet, at least. If I even mention nursing homes, he’ll refuse to let me in the house. Went through all this with my mother (dead now), and dread living through it all again, but here it comes. Thanks for listening.
Another Brit
Like anon_22 – at 12:48 I started to try and explain why this should be taken seriously and decided the best option was to right something which explained why I had become convinced, and some practicle preping advice. This has been a slow process and has ended up with a 40 page document which I sent to friends and family and Florida1 at Fultrackers has posted at http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5757 .
I hope others find it helpful and if it prompts them to prep - or at the very least - try to learn more so much the better.
My own family have changed there view from ‘unaware’ to ‘concerned’ and a few have bought items like jerry cans and Colman lamps but are not what I would call fully preped.
I tried to access your link, JJackson, but was denied even after registering. The site recognized my name, though. What did I do wrong?
Same here…..would love to read it!
You could try these links, the second is to Gujo’s site which has many great downloads.
http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=278&d=1147469544
P.S.
I am lookin for feed back. I am aware that here I am preaching to the converted, what I need to know is
Is it easy to follow? Does it go to fast (i.e. introduce new ideas for those to whom this is all new before they understand the fundimentals especially in the flu biology)? Are there sections which are missing and need adding? Should the genetics go into more detail or is it already too comlex?
I get nowhere with either link…..perhaps you could email the mods here & get them to set it up as a fluwiki link………
LA Escapee, Do what you can, and then put yourself first. I’ve dealt with pig headed older relations. Do your best and then don’t listen to his manipulating talk. Perhaps Social Serivces can help you if he becomes hospitalized. You can’t let him break you.
JJackson, after reading the registration page again, I’m guessing that my registration hasn’t been processed yet. I keep checking my email and nothing from flutrackers. So maybe Monday it will work. I’m so used to instant response on the internet that this surprised me. But I’ll wait and check tomorrow.
LA Escapee…I made it all the way from L.A. to S. Utah…nicer here. Is there a family friend who he will listen to, or other relatives? The elderly have a habit of being frugal because they have a horror of being taken advantage of, which they are, regularly. Who does his finances? He may have been gulled out of money by someone and is embarrassed to admit it, so the $ may not be there. It may reach a point where his meds are not available at any cost, so he should stockpile in advance, which his doctor should authorize.
My m-i-l was diabetic and went from pills to insulin, which she refused to take, ending up with both legs being amputated. Sometimes laying it on the line is the best way to go. If he will not listen, tell him you are checking hospitals and nursing homes anyway.
I am really sorry the links are not working I tried all three and did not have a problem, however this should work and needs no registration.
http://www.mipodcast.com/H5N1/
you will get a list of PDFs to down load, select JJackson_pandemic_manual.pdf
If you still have a problem Email me at JJackson@topletter.com and I will send back as an attachment. I am not sure how to go about placing it here as a downloadable attachment but would be happy to do so if there is going to be an ongoing problem. It has been up at FT for a day or so and seems to have been downloaded about 100 times and I have had some responses so someone is getting through.
JJackson, the mipodcast link worked-thanks!
Jane - Try again. Sorry for the delay. All of the links on the FluTrackers site work. JJackson did a great job on this manual. It is a “must read”. It is placed in 2 threads on FT and has had over 150 downloads since last night.
However, you do not need to register to download anything from our site. “Lurkers” can download. Membership is not required to access any information on FluTrackers. Membership is only required to post. This link should take you straight to the manual.
LA Escapee - We aren’t walking in your shoes but perhaps hearing others stories you may see something that could help you. My mother died a few years ago and in my mind she may have known she was sick but because she felt she couldn’t leave, she decided it was time to let nature take its course. My mother was unhappy because my father treated her badly (verbally & emotionally) because he could. We all knew he wasn’t very nice to her behind closed doors but until she was deathly ill did she finally tell my sister how bad he was. She wanted to leave but was frightened and had lost herself. My mother died and he was actually nice to his children for about 6 to 9 months. He was very upset about being alone. So I took it upon myself to have chats with him everyday to keep him going. Then he met a lady and fell head over heel inlove. She isn’t the problem. What happened next was that he started getting nasty with me and complaining about all my siblings as well. He’s very nice to her (she won’t marry him and I know he hates being alone more than anything). So I came to realize that he was using his children to vent those old feelings he had directed at my mother. I finally realized that as long as I let him use us that way, he wasn’t going to change and in fact I now realize he didn’t change, he hid it for awhile and he’s hiding from this lady or at least I think he is. The bottomline is I did what I could for him and now I have moved on. He doesn’t get to treat me with disrespect. He doesn’t get to demand anything of me. He’s angry with me because I’m not at his beck and call (to vent). I’ve decided to carry on with my life and so now I don’t know whose taking his crap. Best decision I’ve made regarding that relationship. I don’t owe it to him to make my life miserable. I think more of myself than that and he’s ticked because he can’t use his abuse to control me. My life has been peaceful and content for a couple years now.
Thanks for your comments guys!
Prepping Gal, good for you! My dad has a mean streak and lately is really getting out of line. He is very dependent, and trusts nobody, including his own sibs, so it’s hard to reason with him.
3I120, you nailed it. His 2nd ex (not my mom) was abusive and tried to take him for everything. He is attracted to “bad girls” and she sure was one. He was warned about her by everyone, including her best friend before they married. He told me then he knew she was crazy, but didn’t care. Eventually her nastiness started causing HIM problems and that’s why he divorced.
I accompany him to bank visits and know his true financial situation. He spent a fortune on divorce attys and is very angry about it. His attys told him his bad choices limited their options drastically, but it’s “their fault” she had him by the cajones. It would have “saved money” if I’d never spoken to the attys. His settlement was more than 2x what the attys were willing to settle for, largely because I fought like a junkyard dog for him. He’s set for life now. Of course, I’m the bad guy, not the ex or his own bad choices.
Re his meds, he has a medicare plan where you are required to order in 90 day increments by mail. A problem if it’s the end of the 90 days, or he forgets to order, which he does sometimes. I’ve got to come up with an alternative there - not enough cushion. This is the new medicare plan, so I think a lot of others are in the same boat.
And yes, my sib and I do lay it on the line, regularly. He sure doesn’t like to hear it though!;)
Florida1, I may be crazy or maybe my pc is - but I get a message stating that I do not have permission to view that link. Not w/o signing in or registering. Is there a way to upload the manual to the flu wiki site?
Florida1 -
Links still drop you into a log-in screen. Just tried them.
My solution was to file for registration, but be aware that things may not be set just the way you wanted them to be.
Eccles - Thanks for the info. I will check this out. You are registered now.
LA Escapee- I feel for you. Your father sounds much like mine was. The idea that we may need to isolate with family members that are “difficult” sounds like the makings for a new thread. Teenagers bring teen issues, but the elderly bring new issues that many of us have little experience with.
Well I finally got my side of the family prepping. Everyone laughed at myself and my husband and thought we were crazy, but after the new cases of BF in Somalia and Indonesia, my side of the family has come around. My husband’s family who live in the Bronx feel it’s pointless because someone will just take it from them.
I have a mother in law with mild Alzheimers and sometimes she gets “difficult”. We get along fine/OK during holidays and family get togethers. I always count her in my prep plans, I doubt she is aware of BF. But to isolate with her and my three children (21,19,and 17) will significantly increase the stress levels in my home. I know we will do it, but it will not be easy.
Nothing bad has ever happened to my generation. (mid 30′s) No Y2K. No Tsunomis in the USA, no global warming problems, no deep impacts, no comet 73p impact, no great depressions, etc.
We’ve heard our whole lives that the sky is falling, the sky is falling but we are still here. I remember a HBO special on Nostrodamas that said the world was suppose to end in the 80′s. I think it was 1986 with a deep impact. If you do a yahoo search for “end of the world” and you’ll get a huge list of events that are suppose to happen to end the world. There’s just to much junk out there.
People put bird flu into the same catagory as these other predictions. There is so much bad information and hype in the world that people say:
I’ll believe it when I see it.
Myself, I think we have been spoiled with good times and we are over due for a huge event.
Watch Dog: I agree with you that we are overdue for something. Just surprised that you failed to mention New Orleans and the World Trade Center. I think those two events affected everyone in the US - no matter what age and showed us our vulnerabilities.
You say “I’ll believe it when I see it” and I would suggest that by then it is too late.
I don’t say that anymore after watching the Twin Towers crumble to the ground and seeing a city such as New Orleans nearly wiped off the map. I now pay attention to the authorities. They don’t have a crystal ball, but they can and have helped save millions of lives.
I think that it will be too late for many people. I believe a pandemic is on it’s way, sooner or later, and a lot of people won’t be ready. I also think these same people have closed their minds and nothing I say will change that.
How do some people view 911? Well that was five years ago. I don’t live anywhere near New York. I don’t work in a tall building. Something in the future may happen but no where near me.
What do people think about Katrina? Hurricanes are bad but it’s not my problem because I don’t live in a hurricane effected area.
I guess I’m trying to say that people feel safe so they don’t feel like they need to prepare for anything. On the other hand I don’t feel safe at all and I think that I would be happier if I didn’t worry so much.
There is little you can do about 911 except change foreign policy so we are hated by less of the world. Katrina & BF are quite different they are, and were, predicted and while neither is preventable their consequences can be mitigated.
Watch Dog has it right. Many people have closed their minds. A few hours ago I was chatting with a neighbor who feeds the local swans every day. She has given away her two parrots, and just keeps one smaller bird as they caused too much work. Anyway having suggested the movie a week ago, I did apologize for mentioning it. She burst out it was ridiculous. I agreed it wasn’t good and was embarrassed that I had mentioned it to people. When I said something earlier about the Camdon chickens (in the last weeks conversation) she now claimed it has been here forever, and she said there were no new cases anywhere in 2006. I said there were new cases in Indonsesia. She was a nurse, she is strongly opiniated and feels she knows everything. She insisted, I didn’t push it. She said everyone has to take care of themselves. In other words, don’t say anything to her about this matter. Naturally this will be the last words on the bird flu I will ever express to her. I will remain on good terms, but from her mouth to Gods ears, as the old saying goes. Hopefully she is right. She thinks she is.
I try not to focus on bird flu when I talk about prepping.
I say things like:
I don’t know about bird flu but I think were due for something to happen. Times have been too good and as the world population grows, it seems like the world is becoming more dangerous. So I think having some extra food around is a good idea, no matter what happens.
After I say something like that I still get a look like I’m crazy.
I think I have mentioned it three times to this one neighbor as she is in there in the muck of the pond among the swans and geese, if anyone in my area would be at risk, she would be among the first if the swans got it. She has been feeding them greens from Shopright, lettuce and other castoffs for years.
We may all have the unfortunate opportunity to sit back and watch an all-out PANIC if TSHTF. In that mass panic will be all of those people who thought they knew better.
The reason I brought up Katrina and 9/11 in an earlier comment was “Did you see the look on the faces of those people”? They were in total and utter disbelief!!! It could not possibly have happened. They were in utter shock. This does not happen to Americans!! This does not happen in our lives.
This is a look we may see again on many, many faces should TSHTF. Until then, the only look you will see is “down their noses” at you in that they know better. I hope and pray that they do and that we are wrong. I would rather swallow extra supplies of tuna and beans than watch the horror that might unfold.
Let’s all say a prayer tonight that they are right and they can continue convincing themselves that they know better than Mother Nature.
Agreed.
Janet,
Everything you said is right when it came to me personally. I don’t know why these events don’t impact other people more.
“They were in total and utter disbelief” These are the people that will have to find a way to survive…..somehow.
Bump
bump
I think the answer all of us have been dancing around is that there IS no way to convince others. We tell them once or twice and leave it at that. If we continue to hammer away at them, others view us as Chicken Little and believe us to be addled. Maybe the best thing to do is stop pestering them until there is some definite news which we can show them. If too late, not our problem, they had been warned. Nature can be brutal to those who do not heed the danger signals, whether the approach of a hurricane or a pandemic.
Even the U.S. government has alerted us to a ‘potential’ pandemic, although in the guise of telling local governments that they will be responsible for their citizens. Even if we are not believed, hopefully the Federal concern might sink in.
I have told my kids, one of whom is a doctor, and they nod their heads in agreement, but you can see the eyes start to glaze over as Dad starts his ‘disaster speech’. For those close to us, the only way to respond is to add more supplies. There will be a LOT of Spam eaten around here in a year or so if nothing happens!
Has anyone developed a presentation aimed at their neighbors/communities and preparedness? If so, would you be willing to share it? I’ve had decent success in talking with families/friends and some are preparing. Don’t know if it’s the right thing to do with my family to expose semi-preparedness. But, if TSHTF they’re going to figure it out anyways. And I don’t have enough for my family yet.
I’ve been thinking of our local library as I have contacts there, but there are many other forums. I think it would be helpful to have a presentation/overview of the situation and then move into the “open forum” as has been discussed on many threads. If someone has already developed an intro presentation I’d love to see it to save some time. If not, maybe it’s something to develop if others think it might be useful.
Three people at worked mentioned the BF to me today, but was more laughing at me. One time only ( weeks and weeks ago) I sent an email to everyone in the office with information, links to gov sites, here, newsnow, and suggested they investigate it themselves. These are intelligent people. We spend 8+ hours a day on the internet working, ya think they would actually investigate it. I feel useless.
I have started taking a box of supplies with me when I go to see my parents (who are elderly and live a significant distance away). Store it in their guest bedroom. They continue to think I am a nut with regard to this bird flu business. I figure, I can live with it if I spend money on canned foods that they won’t eat and if they think I’m a little “daft,” but I could not live with it if they were without food and gas restrictions, illness, etc. kept me from getting to them. Obviously, this is a special case, different from getting neighbors or co-workers to prep. On **that** front, my experiences have been much like KimT’s above (22:35), e.g., being the butt of jokes at work, etc.. I don’t mention it anymore. By the way, the places that I work include an infectious disease clinic and a school of public health. As far as I can tell, people in neither of those places are taking this in any way seriously, which to me, is pretty darn scary. Am pretty sure they are not prepping at all.
I am calling our city managers, public safety, water, health dept. etc. The responses have been very noncommital. “Waiting to see what other villages, departments etc. do first.” Our water department has a backup diesel generator for use if the electrical power goes out. Only a THREE DAY SUPPLY of fuel is stored. Presumably, diesel will be available, and prices will roll back too. I have floated an idea for neighborhood and town meetings here. I am even thinking of a support group to share prepping ideas, and having guest trainers (calling all Scouts!) to explain urban survival skills. I’m not getting the brushoff but clearly people are preoccuppied with Memorial Day Weekend, graduations, vacations gardening and many other spring related activities.
I think I’ll keep quiet until there is some definate reason to talk this over with people. I spoke to my swan feeding neighbor today. The new mate to the male has laid two eggs. Since she doesn’t want any information, we only talked swan talk, and her personal life. As far as my neighbors they really know nothing about my personal life, and I like it that way. They simply can surmise. The wiki is my current hobby, and is far preferable to the things I see others googling up. No video solitare and poker or any of the things I notice people use. I really beleive this is a group of special people, good people. We may or may not be effective. Who knows.
Some of us are beginning to have an effect by utilizing the strategy described near the top of this string: Unit of Action
Take a look at the thinking there and see if it sparks some new strategies for you. Together, we have the power to save many lives, but it will take your individual action to make a difference.
My water department at least didn’t treat me as if I were a nut.Sent me back a decent email, although a little carefully worded, that said they are taking this seriously.
As far as acquaintances, I finally got some to prepare minimally by pointing out that a) water mains ONLY break when I have shampoo on my head, and take my word for it they want some extra around and b)it is just too much of a PITA to go grocery shopping during an ice storm.
People I know don’t seem to want to prepare for scary big events, but understand things like inconvenience, weeks with bad paychecks, etc.
Hey, good for me! Last week a woman wrote to the local community tiny (mostly ads) newspaper complaining about how the the President (G.W. Bush) and his cronies are probably already vaccinated against Bird Flu and everyone else is going to suffer, and that somehow it was all tied into oil companies….sigh….ok, well, I took this as my chance, wrote a letter back, and they printed it. I made a few paragraphs about how vaccines are developed, a few paragraphs about the regularity of influenza pandemics, and a few paragraphs about the need to prepare yourself and family, not worry about the oil companies and politics and how you’re being cheated and all that noise. So I’m glad, it was good to see something in a printed, freely distributed newspaper. Feelin’ like I’ve done at least a little more than tiptoe around it with friends and colleagues.
Fooled ya, I don’t think I have any “colleagues”.
Good for you! (I recently found out someone I’ve known for years is prepping. -And- actually thanks me when I send updates/links. !)
crfullmoon - I often find myself wondering who I know that’s prepping for it, if any. It must have been a pleasant surprise!
Wait a sec, isn’t there a song that goes “I’m a prepper, he’s a prepper, she’s a prepper, wouldn’t you like to be a prepper, too?”
LOL Satago!
THAT IS THE SONG FOR (Dr Pepper) a soft drink sold here in the USA. I contacted my local county commissionar and all I got back is “don’t worry we don’t the Flu here in C___ Fl, and we don’t have any money any way to prepare for it!…”
I was so mad I could only think about all those people who put their trust into the City of New Orleans last year….. Is it going to happen again?
I have stated this in other links but basically after I explain my concerns, I often get the response, “Well, if by some awful chance something does happen, we’ll just come to your house!” To which I reply, “if you aren’t invited, don’t bother, because you won’t be staying!”
I had one of my friends ask me whether I’d shoot him if he DID show up, and I said, “I would use whatever force was required to defend myself.” He thought about that for a while.
He’s prepping now.
Had another guy, very smart, listened, isn’t doing a damn thing. Oh well!
Well I have had enought over this weekend so I sent letters to all my county commissioners and all 3 local newspapers.
I had done my background work and know what the Federal Government will do (4 Million dollars) and the State Government (Local communities will know what is needed and plan for it) attitude! I discover that no communicationd between the County seat and any one else has been accomplished! So I acted and will continue to due so. I now will have the opportunity to discuss this issue in Open forum televised in my county. Next month!
I want to present the facts as the state government has stated “you are on our own for 6–8 month” I will give facts from today, and similarities to 1918 Spanish Flu. I want to be sure not to come off as a pandemic freak or end of the world sign carrier. just someone who gives a shit and wants to live through this, and alot better then N.O.L.A. did last year.
Richard,
Do a Google search and see what the State of Washington and King County (Seattle,WA) have been doing for months. The state had a Pandemic Flu seminar where over 1,100 officials and business leaders attended. King County has been preparing businesses for continuity during a crisis. The State of Washington sent out a 4 page color brochure titled “Preparing for Pandemic Flu” in the Sunday paper about a month ago. I don’t think you will find a credibility problem with either one of these.
Closed to maintain Forum speed.