Old thread was getting long
Did anyone attend the Pandemic presentation at Ashfield Town hall last night, and could they report please? At the last minute I was unable to go. I’d be interested to hear how many were there, and whether prepping was discussed.
Well I got some information from the Ashfield Mayor’s office. They apparently publicised this quite widely, ie in the local press & their website. On the night there were only 15 people showed up. Yep, 15. What does this indicate? It is not seen as an issue? People didn’t know it was happening? People feel they already know enough about it?
They thought it was an excellent presentation by the 2 presenters with alot of good information, and yes, prepping with a view to staying at home was presented.
I was hoping to replicate this type of communications event at our local council…but now I’m not so sure.
Did any of us Sydney Wikians go? I’d still like to hear other viewpoints.
BTW, I thought the series run on Discovery channel was very good, particularly last nights episode. Good, factual info that should wake some people up. A comment from a friend this morning to me was “God, I didn’t know it could be THAT bad.” Then followed a real conversation on prepping. Of course, there wasn’t much in the programs that I hadn’t already told him, but seeing it on TV made it real for him, so that’s good. Whatever works.
I watched Discovery Channel’s ‘Countdown to Superflu’(27 June) & ‘Avian Influenza:Human Epidemic’ last night too. Yes I agree it was quite comprehensive & good. It had quite a few reputable persons like US President Bush, Dr.Somchai P(WHO Director), Dr.Oxford(virologist), Tony Abbott(Aust Health Minister), another WHO Director, at least 8–10 others, who gave very frank info & warnings that strongly suggest the H5N1 virus going pandemic as a matter of ‘when’ & not ‘if’. Tuesday’s show focused more on Thailand. I like watching Dr.Oxford standing in a dug-out grave of a H1N1 1918 flu victim & showing him holding a sample of that person’s lung tissue. Last night’s show had a specific example of how the crew of a mid-air airplane with a suspected H5N1 infected passenger can do to prevent spread of the virus to other passengers: The coughing person was given a mask to wear the rest of the flight, made to sit in another part of plane with empty seats, ground staff were alerted so that when plane landed the passenger(s) was the 1st to be escorted down by 2 orange-suited men. I like it’s specificity to give governments an idea of how they ought to plan. In both the shows I have a strange feeling that the main sponsor was Roche, as there was huge significance given to Tamiflu as the only means we have to fight the pandemic in Wave 1, & vaccines in Waves 2 & 3 (though most of us won’t be able to get our hands on it). After watching the show, i’ve to resist a very strong urge to order half a dozen more boxes of Tamiflu from Roche. :)
BTW there was an ad that National Geographic is airing ‘Killer Flu’ in July.
RobT
The tv series is also running here in NZ but I missed last night’s one and couldn’t get it taped - please don’t tell me I missed the best one!
I was disappointed in the first programme - in fact I found it most confusing - it kept saying H5N1 to refer to all forms of avian flu and was saying that H5N1 is bot high and low pathgenic in its different forms! If this is so then lots of others will be very confused as well. It also quoted that the vet in Holland (?) had died from bird flu - which was proved wrong. We ‘better informed’ should perhaps not watch some of these programmes - we probably miss the all important message because we are mentally verifying what they say!
Yes, they were good educational programs and were not meant to give out too much detail. I hate to be picky but but did you notice the masks on the passengers were surgical masks and therefore useless against getting infected? Not only were they the wrong masks (ie not P2/N95), they seemed to be not fitted well at that. I thought that was a glaring error and it was the same in the movie Fatal Contact: Bird Flu in America that aired in the US awhile ago. And on the plane, if they suspected someone had a lethal virus infection and was coughing, wouldn’t it be nice to give out P2 masks to the other passengers? I mean it’s only a deadly virus, after all. Just sitting the cougher a couple of rows away from others wouldn’t do much good I would think. When they showed the actual hospital staff, in Hanoi for example, they certainly were using the correct P2 masks.
AnnieB: I don’t understand your confusion re high and low pathogenic H5N1. That is accurate. The low path (LPAI) has been around for a long time. This current situation was discussed well by Prof Oxford that the low path changes and then becomes a high path clade. Are you saying that it will confuse the general public?
Also I hadn’t heard that the Dutch vet didn’t die from the virus. It wasn’t H5N1, it was another bird flu virus.
There are 3 programs, I thought the last one was the best.
In yesterday’s programme, i recalled they said the vet in Holland died of H7 strain, which could also become a possible pandemic strain in the future. I didn’t watch ‘Flu Time Bomb’ on 26 June so can’t comment on that one. Yes, i did notice they were all wearing surgical masks too, i suppose they’re much cheaper. A good reminder to us to bring our own masks when travelling. I got a good sense of grief for the pig/poultry farmers whose livelihood were greatly affected. IMO they didn’t emphasize enough about self-quarantine & stock-piling water/food/essentials as a preventive measure. More air-time was given to Tamiflu & vaccine development than prepping.
Oh forgot to add that a WHO Director (forgot his name) did mention that the H5N1 virus has indeed gone H2H, citing Bangkok where a daughter infected her mother who had no contact with poultry. And I believe Prof Oxford said it has not yet gone H2H beyond close family contacts. That should jolt people who’ve just come to learn of H5N1 strain via the programmes.
Yes, you’re right. There wasn’t much at all on the implications of social distancing. Food distribution, distance education, contamination issues, etc. That stuff really does get scary, so there is a concerted effort to not point out how utterly unprepared we are as a society. It’s when you delve into the details of “Well, when it hits, exactly how are we going to function day to day and not get infected?” that the real challenges arise, and it starts to get scary indeed.
Like they say people will still go to work but wear P2 masks so they don’t get infected by the air conditioning. Have you tried wearing a disposable P2 mask for 6 to 8 hours? Do you know that they are not meant to be worn for more than 2 hours, they’re not effective after that time? How are you going to change them without becoming contaminated? How are you going to decontaminate before coming into your home at the end of the day?
All of this information will be held back until it hits, and I believe people will be dangerously unprepared. Many lives could be saved….but won’t be.
Hi RobT & AnnieB, During the terrible choking haze in M’sia last Aug05 (that blew over from Indonesia’s open-burning fires), i wore N95 masks to bring my dog out & even wearing it for 20 mins is terribly uncomfortable. I can’t imagine wearing it for 1hr let alone 6–8hrs at work. The surgical masks are more comfortable & i prefer them though i know they’re almost useless against those finer particles. Wish they’d manufacture N95/P2 masks for dogs too as they do need to go out to do their biz. Anyway, i believe most of yr 2nd paragraph statements are answered on the Oprah’s interview with Dr.Osterhaus show abt 6mths ago, including a demo on proper way to remove (from inside out without touching the outsides & straight into bin). Remembering the Canadian dog eating homework thread, there was mention that the difficulty in detecting H5N1 virus was not in analysing it, but in getting the sample taken to the lab (where it needs to be) as soon as possible…something like that, i watched the midnight rerun & was too tired to take notes.
Mamypoko: Thanks for the feedback on your experience trying the P2 mask. That’s my point. I imagine people will be given disposable masks at work, put them on for 45 minutes or so, and then take them off due to the heat, discomfort, fogging up glasses, whatever. Then they are exposed. Half face respirators with big exhalation valves are really the only option in my opinion for extended use, they are also much cheaper than changing the disposables every couple of hours. But how many respirators will be available? That’s right, not nearly enough. So how are we to function?
I didn’t see Michael Osterholm on Oprah, wish I had. But somebody should make an instructional DVD/Video/ downloadable file, that instructs people NOW, on how to handle some of these issues. There is discussion on the Large File thread about this, and hopefully after the powerpoints are finished, that we can produce something that teaches people the basics. You’d be amazed at how many people don’t even know how to wash their hands properly.
I missed your point about the Canadian Dog Eating Homework thread though. As a Canadian, I was shocked that they didn’t have better processes to handle samples. It sounded like a big screwup to me by the Canadian authorities, and I thought Niman made some very good points about the whole affair.
RobT, re yr last paragraph, yes i agree with u, yesterday’s programme stated that the difficulty in H5N1 detection was in getting the samples to where it needs to be (the labs in HKG, etc.) asap, which reminded me of what Niman said that the Canadian (goose was it?) sample(s) have degraded by the time it goes to the Winnepeg lab after such a long time. I’ve to go off now, cya.
I noticed this week that the Aus govt has put up a new Pandemic plan on the health website with video etc… they are ramping it up now.
Here is the link to latest Aus Govt info very comprehensive and I believe only put up in last week or two so you may not have seen it. It is still following WHO phasing
Thanks anonymous. Yes that is the updated one. I hadn’t watched the video but just went thru it, not bad at all. I hope many people see it and take it to heart. Those duckbill P2 masks are fairly pricy, I think they are about $4 to $7 each when I last checked.
I also have seen good info that 1 meter distance is not nearly enough distance for a sneeze, trying to remember the reference source. I recall that micro droplets can be projected way beyond 1 meter.
hey rob where are you getting your masks from? i am going Bulkara they seem ok but any better p2 suggestions?
Sorry for the delay Anonymous. Took the weekend off from the forum for a change.
There was an excellent thread on masks and what to look out for on CurEvents board, discussed by real experts. Search under “Half-Face Respirators and Filter advice”.
I have found the MSA masks to be excellent quality and value. I think the silicone rubber half face respirators are a much better choice than the disposables for 2 reasons. Firstly, and most importantly, they are better to wear for longer periods ie over an hour, they are much more comfortable. Secondly, they are less expensive than the disposables. Due to moisture build up on the surface of the disposable P2′s (possible wicking efect?), the disposables are not recommended to wear more than an hour or so, and should be changed. So that gets expensive if you are going to work for 6 hours. They are OK to just pop down to the shops to pick up some milk and eggs, if indeed there are any supplies left in the shops.
The masks I got are MSA Comfo II, they are grey silicone rubber with 2 screw in P1 or P2 cartridges. The masks come in small, medium and large size. There are very few masks that fit kids well, and the small size fits our kids (age 6 & 9). They are available from many MSA distributors, call (02) 9688 0333 to find out who has them close to where you live. Hope that helps.
I remember some time back reading that Asian communities are wearing masks not so much to protect themselves but to protect others - it will contain coughs and sneezes. I think this is a very positive approach and a change in mindset that we could easily adopt.
I also think it is important that we do not ‘rely’ on masks (mentally or otherwise) but see them as part of an ‘armoury’, along with handwashing and social distancing, that will lessen but not eliminate the chances of infection.
The important thing is that a mask must be ‘fitted’ to the face to be considered effective. The ones I have contain a soft metal strip over the nose that can be shaped to the bridge. I intend using them if any member of my family should become ill and I will be caring for them.
The whole thing about sneezing and the spread of droplets was brought home to me recently when two of my cats had winter sniffles and started sneezing - I know that sounds awful but you wouldn’t believe the distance a sneeze from a little cat can cover!
AnnieB: If your mask has a soft metal strip over the nose bridge, it is a disposable mask, meant to be used for short periods, like 1 to 2 hours. It also needs to be a P2/N95 or better filtration standard to be effective against pathogenic viri like H5N1.
I know I will be “relying” on the P2 mask if I’m ever to be in an infectious situation. The other protection actions are equally important, like hand washing and proper decontamination. of course.
thanks RobT for the mask info much appreciated. was at a doc surgery today and noted the Womans weekly had an article about BF in April and noticed the Good Weekend ran one this weekend. I reckon its all starting to filter through - slowly.
Certainly hope so. There’s alot of catching up to do. But if it’s in the Womens Weekly, can New Idea be far behind? Seriously though, any exposure is good as long as it portrays the seriousness of the situation and urges people to prepare, or at the very least, primes them for more meaningful information when it is released by Departments of Health.
Pleased to know the Womens Weekly has done something - the circulation that mag has means a lot of people get exposure to the words at least. Think of it as the Oprah of Australasia!
Yes RobT, the masks I have are disposable and I do have a lot of them! I intend to bring new meaning to social distancing and recluse as soon as I believe we are at risk! (I get infection induced asthma as it is and hate people coming to work etc with colds, so I am well practised at maintaining my safety bubble.)
Just posted to the news thread an article from NZ papers about planning by the Catholic church for a pandemic. (It is the July 4 thread)
Also thought it was time the down-under thread got a good bump!
Is this the latest Aust-NZ thread? I am not sure
(Actually this is really just an update and bump so we don’t get bronco-billed!!! hee hee)
bump for BB.
bump
Closed and continued here.