Here’s hoping this will coax a few antipodeans out of the woodwork. :)
hi noticed that the nsw state govt has started their generic flu campaign this week with sneeze ettiquette etc it all looks very general but i think it is probably targetting BF, or at least gradually leading us down that path in a non threatening non-panic kind of way. Any other australian lurkers want to comment on what they have seen, or how their preps are going? and how is our good friend Nikolai now?
I saw on Sky News yesterday that Australia is starting a general flu awareness programme - encouraging handwashing, staying at home when ill and wearing a mask when visiting the doctor. This is to align with the start of the general flu season - late July onwards. They were also saying it is not too late to get a flu vaccine.
Sorry, no link - just a broadcast story.
The NZ Ministry of Health has just provided more updates on their website, including sample collection and handling guidelines. It also provides links to other updates with other government agencies.
Here is the link to the updates section http://tinyurl.com/pyq5c
i work for a kind of hub business in the telecommunications industry…its started to be talked about in various meetings now. A start at least!
Anonymous, as telecommunications is critical infrastructure - lifeline behind power and water, you would hope that pandemic preparation has a fairly high profile :-)
I believe the various task forces involved in Pandemic planning in the NSW Gov’t have reported to State Cabinet on their findings, but I have not seen a single reference to it yet. I don’t really monitor the MSM very well though, so has anybody else heard anything about the results? I’m surprised (and a little disappointed) that there have been no reports. Hold that thought…actualy I’m NOT surprised there have been no MSM reports. We certainly have no Helen Branswell equivalent down here, do we?
Nope. Sad but true.
Today’s Daily Telegraph in NSW.
Paragraph 10.
Irresponsible journalism …
I think reminding people of basic hygiene measures is to be applauded.
Have written complaint to Tele, Premier, Health and Transport Ministers and Health Department.
And, yes, I do feel better.
Carol - Lake Macquarie
agree Ms Cranky Pants - the article was reading well until the word “bizarre” in the line about the campaign - obviously the reporter is someone who thinks nothing of going to work with a cold or the flu - and probably drives instead of using public transport anyway!
Bump
We’re Back!
:) Is anyone else glad we’re so far away from the trouble in the Middle East? I sure am… But i wonder if a full scale war breaks out (what is the likelyhood of this? Anyone?) What effect it would have on us down under….
I don’t worry about that so much as what danger the best friends pose us (ie. John W and George W).
touche ;)
Hi folks. World events .. so many things happening at present, it is difficult to know which threat to ‘prepare’ for next! Another reminder of earthquake and tsunami damage for we Kiwi’s - I think Aussies don’t give enough credence to the possibility of earthquakes. That should stir a few responses (hee hee).
Right now we are being hit with southerly storms and hibernating is looking very inviting. On that note I shall head home and hunker down for the weekend.
have a good one :-)
AnnieB: i spent 24 years living in NZ and i still remember when i moved home to Sydney. Kept lookng up at the skyscrapers thinkin g “cr*p i wouldnt want to be in there in an earthquake.” LOL!
Looks damn cold over your way atm…are you in the north or south island?
Hi Woodstock. I live in the capital city - the most beautiful city in the world :-) (sadly, it also sits on several fault lines …. )
The weekend weather was great - nothing like originally predicted and the city was alive with the rugby test - party party party!
Today’s local newspapers are reporting that NZ poultry is BF free as a result of surveys undertaken in accordance with new reporting requirements from the OIE. Have you heard anything about the same or a similar programme in Aussie?
Here is a link for the story (and the new reporting requirements) http://tinyurl.com/r3btf
Nothing over this side of the ditch…typical
No still fairly quiet altho I have noticed nsw govt posters regarding Sneeze Etiquette placed at community health centres looks very generic but could relate equally well to BF. That is the only movement I have seen recently. Did any Aus fluwikians ever get together in person to discuss their prepps etc? I know there was talk of it at one point. Those with more than 20 cans of tuna in trolley now assemble….
Anonymous & Woodstock:
From my investigations, I believe all the state Departments of Health have been working on pandemic planning and have been directed to do so by the Federal Government. Part of this exercise has been getting more detailed information that can be incorporated into the plans, and various task forces have been charged with this “filling in the detail”. As you would be aware from my earlier posts, I am particularly concerned about the food distribution plan, or rather the lack of plan. I believe this will be the single greatest cause of panic and civil disorder during the waves of the pandemic, and it is a tough problem to solve. I am currently seeking to find out what the task force looking at this issue has come up with. Maybe the army will be dropping 10kg bags of rice at everyones doorstep….but I doubt it. I’ll post the results if I ever get to the bottom of it. The bureaucratic maze is slowing me down so far, but they will NOT succeed! (wink)
There will be a carefully planned public information campaign rolled out with just the messages they want to put out to the sheeple, and the sneeze etiquette is the opening volley in that campaign.
I suggested quite awhile ago that we get together to trade ideas on prepping, both of you were the only ones who were interested, and we left it to bubble away for awhile. Shall we try again?
Morning team
Last night the local free-to-air tv showed a local documentary asking about all the hype around BF - they took a couple of families and asked them about their concerns and preps and what they would do plus interviewed people on the street. They had a local GP who was EXCELLENT plus usual health officials - also excellent. What it did was raise more questions for viewers - it did not seek to give answers - really asked people “the health dept says you cannot do …., what do you think, what will you do if this happens”. I guess as a ‘convert’ it didn’t get me excited but to raise more questions than answers has to have value.
There were the ‘classics” - “it won’t happen”, “I will keep working”. And the real doozie - “If your child gets sick what will you do?” - answer “take him to the hospital” - “and if the hospitals are closed?” - “take him to the doctor” !! (This from an ‘area’ where people go to the hospital first as it is free and going to the doctor means a charge.)
I am still staggered when i hear what so called intelligent people think about the possibilities during a pandemic. Mostly what surprises me is that so little investigation has gone on by folks that have been made somewhat aware..then they think “flu” and look no further.
One thing last night’s documentary did spend some ‘time’ on was the supply of food and groceries to the supermarkets. It was stated that the main supermarket chains hold about 2 weeks food in their warehouses and that they would be pushing non-perishable or long keeping foods into the supermarkets as soon as a pandemic alert was given. This would mean that stores would receive what they are given more than they would receive what they would really like. Also, the deli, bakery, meat and fish counters would be closed at the supermarkets themselves. I thought this explanation was well done.
Another segment was about deaths and burials, giving numbers like 23,000 deaths in 4–6 weeks - more than the annual average. There was specific mention that single burials would continue instead of mass graves - this is more a police requirement so that interments can occur if required at a later date.
I am in Western Australia, was this tv program on in Aus or NZ. I am constantly on the watch for Bird Flu news and only seem to get it via web. I am wondering when Aus govt is going to start telling people to have a supply of food and water at home like USA Govt does. I am prepping myself already but it would help convince the public if the govt did that then all the sheep would get to the shops quick smart cheers
Hi Ozgirl.
My references were to the NZ tv programme last night - sorry - the “regulars” know I am kiwi but that is not fair on new visitors to the site.
Several comments have been made about the need for a general awareness campaign in Aussie. NZ has had a big campaign for pandemic preparedness, including a mailout to every household. At present, there is a media and mailout campaign underway for general preparedness. Here are some links to NZ sites if this helps.
Ministry of Health - mailout resources and advertising brochures http://tinyurl.com/z783h
“Getthru” website - a new one as part of the general awareness camapign for earthquakes, pandemic, tsunamis etc http://www.getthru.govt.nz/
AnnieB
What was the conclusion reached on the discussion about the food supply chain? You stated that the supermarkets can be supplied for 2 weeks from their warehouses, but was it discussed “What happens then, AFTER the 2 weeks?”
How do the warehouses get replentished if 40% of the food processing factory workers, and delivery truck drivers, and warehouse staff, etc etc are not at work?
Hi Robt
It was implied (almost stated) that “once we run out you are on your own”. Reference was made to the fact that the supermarkets would be operated on a basis of “here is everything we have available and we cannot re-stock”. They did talk about this operating once our borders close or there is an outbreak in a segment of the country.
I do understand that food/water/medical supplies are a ‘lifeline’ function here (like power, water, sewage) and that there is considerable discussion and planning on this front. Of course, all of these supply chains depend on transport, which depends on people and fuel - the latter becoming a greater “guarantee of supply” issue. By that I mean that those services identified as lifeline services need certainty of supply of fuel so they can attempt to maintain lifeline services.
Thanks AnnieB I so wish Aus would get on board with an awareness campaign of some sort we have absolutely nothing hear I havent heard a word since months ago when govt stockpiled Tamiflu. Nothing at all I am prepping alone and in silence even my Husband doesnt know the half of it but I would feel comfortable stepping it up a notch if the govt would get on board for now i feel like the only one prepping in WAus, good luck and thanks for welcoming me cheers
Thanks AnnieB. Well that acknowledgement that we’re “on our own” should give any sane person real cause for serious concern. Just contemplate the situation of disrupted food supply in cities like Aukland, and Sydney. Millions of people running out of food….fast. Tomorrow I’m calling the home shop companies to see if they are up to speed with this kind of surge capacity problem. Somehow, I think I already know the answer I’ll get…..(sigh).
Ozgirl: In my post above at 8:49 on the 24th, I stated that the State Departments of Health are planning a communications strategy to disseminate info out to the public. They are taking their own sweet time about it, unfortunately. And they are way behind other countries in this regard, to their discredit. We can only hope that we get lucky and there is enough time left before TSHTF to get the masses prepped.
RobT thanks for that info I was not aware they were doing this, I wonder if people will panic down here or if the laid back no worries attitude will prevail and people will just ignore it? who knows I am prepping myself starting off slowly i have enough food for about 2.5months would hope to get to 9mths as soon as info comes into public arena here im going to show husband and let him know I am prepping for this specifically at the moment our cupboard is just overflowing and the extra is in other rooms but he hasnt really noticed once it info is disseminated here I am going to prep to 6mths very quickly within weeks cheers
Ozgirl: Oh people will panic alright. Just read the accounts in John Barry’s book “The Great Influenza” (a magnificent book by the way, if you havn’t read it yet) of the fear that was throughout society. And our society is totally dependant on just in time supply chains (unlike 1918) in critical areas like food, medicine, medical/hospital supplies, some critical services.
Oh there will be panic. John Barry and other risk communicators, like Peter Sandman, make the point that dis-information, and under preparing are good ways to ensure that people will have “over the top” negative responses to a threat. It is much better for authorities to tell it like it is and give people the time to go through the adjustment reactions, BEFORE the pandemic hits. Once it hits, it’s too late to recover the situation, I believe. Are you listening, Tony Abbott?
Very glad to hear you are getting your preps in order. A 20kg bag of rice goes a long way if you can vary the sauces to avoid food boredom. Same with lentils, variety of beans etc. Getting together 6 months worth is not really such a big deal.
Hi Ozgirl. Most of us feel we are on our own so we just get on with it. If you have more than a few weeks food then you have done far more than most that even say they are prepping - well done. Have you thought about other items than food? If you have a BBQ, you can cook if/when the power goes but make sure you have extra gas bottles for it etc. You have an advantage in WA that preparing for cold snaps is probably not an issue (assuming you are central/north WA). Don’t forget medications and some personal luxury/treats too.
I am fortunate that my ‘hubby’ is constantly reminding me to get preps - in fact he has become a bit of a nagger! The issue now is getting all the food through the recycling process so we always have the latest stuff in storage.
On the news front, I am disappointed that Thailand has been in denial of fresh outbreaks or possibility of human infections. I can understand their reluctance until tests are confirmed but this is too importnat to the health and wellbeing of the entire planet to treat so lightly.
I think I have become a bit sensitised to such events. Last night I watched the movie “The Inconvenient Truth” which is Al Gore presenting on global warming - it is the best presentation of the information I have ever seen but it is also so depressing when you consider the reality of the situation. Earthquakes, tsunamis, global warming and pandemics - see what I mean about being sensitised.
That feels better - excuse my ramblings and have a lovely happy day :-)
Hi Guys I live in the metro area surrounding south of perth, it gets cold but nothing a good jumper wont fix. I have talked my husband into getting a rainwater tank to help with water bills (thats my story and Im sticking to it!!) and a runoff tank for my vege patch which i planted a few months ago, we also planted 4 fruit trees, which obviously will take a while to get going. On another forum a poster told me that the Aus govt is planning some majoy drill type campaign the majority of which is to be done in QLD. and in the info it says there will be intense media scrutiny and they will have to be careful not to panic people yet parts of it were meant to have been conducted in April and I havent seen a damn thing on tv. I have also been stocking up on books we brought a new bookcase so have brought 50 paperbacks from markets for us and the kids and have brought a few board games lately also. We have a gas bbq which sucks i would have rather had a wood one, i also stocked up on the essentials for the fondue set haha as it can heat up all manor of canned goods easily and inside the house cheers and have a great day it is cold and miserable here in perth today!!
Hi all. I find myself in yet another “prep flat spot” My youngest daughter is getting married on saturday and quite frankly i’ve spent no time on preps. It makes me nervous but nothing has jolted me in the news lately. Feel free to jolt me if you can! I need it
Woodstock - I know what you mean - particularly at this time of year when the weather doesn’t help and the migratory birds have headed north wihout leaving us a problem…. but then there are still the big silver birds coming and going each day that are our most likely source of infection - labelled 747 or 767 or Airbus or whatever!
One of the other threads a few days ago asked why the emphasis on preps and infection seems to be for the northern hemisphere and 2 things came to mind. One was the migratory patterns as mentioned above - which only gives us 2–3 months ‘grace’ at present, and we are ‘tail-end charlies’ on those migration routes. Two, maybe we are not testing or checking (or not hearing about testing and checking) so we are being overlooked? Is it our (and I can only speak for OZ and NZ here) bio-security arrangements doing such a great job that we really do owe a heap of gratitude to these agencies for keeping us clean and clear at present. I did mention a few days ago that we had publicity here about our surveillance programmes in domestic poultry - all positive stuff.
What did hearten me, when I thought more about it, was that I think many of our specialist government agencies, on a day-to-day basis, work hard to maintain our high standards of bio-security and surveillance, because we are economically so dependent on them. We may not necessarily publicly know quickly if it all goes belly-up but I am sure quick reaction to a situation will be automatic and effective if previous experiences are anything to go by.
That does not negate our individual responsibility to be prepared … so Woodstock, here is the cattle prod :-) Do enjoy your daughter’s big day.
Woodstock:
You can only prepare so much, can’t you? It’s hard to know where to stop, and what is the likely scenario to prepare for.
But if you need a prod, here it is. There’s a couple actually. 1. There was a reference to the WHO being blocked from investigations in Indonesia, together with the dramatic drop in reports coming from Indonesia. It’s unlikely that H5N1 has taken a holiday so suddenly…so what is going on there? I don’t know about you, but that concerns me. It’s only THE hotspot for H5N1, although it’s back in the news re Thailand in the last few days.
and 2. I know that mask manuacturers and distributors in Australia have been contacted by TPTB (at VERY high level) re a pandemic, to make sure there are enough P1 & P2 masks in stock. Those in the know are taking the threat very,very seriously. Hmmm. Why?
A word to the wise….continue your preps even if the mainstream media has dropped the ball(there isn’t much good investigative journalism downunder is there?), or news has dried up out of Indonesia. No news is not necessarily good news in this instance.
Wanted to amend one of my comments above re the lack of investigative journalism in Australia. After I posted I realised that was a cheap shot. To be fair, programs like the ABC 4 Corners are usually excellent, and there are are good journo’s like Chris Masters & Paul Barry.
I will stand by my belief that there is not enough good investigative journalism here, in my opinion. Goodness knows there have to be plenty of situations that need a public airing. I wonder how many other Australian Wheat Board type stories there are waiting to be discovered/uncovered? (For overseas Wikians who may not be familiar with the AWB fiasco, the AWB gave Saddam in Iraq $300 Million in kickbacks for wheat deals. It went on for a long time, there were plenty of red flags, and yet somehow our government wasn’t aware of it, so they say.Blind Freddy could have found it…with a bit of will.)
Also no investigative journalists picked it up, which is my point in the first place. Who is looking?
Hi rob mate great to have you back on board-found your comments about the masks interesting -what does TPTB stand for?
woodstock - i am with you i have dropped the ball big time, eaten half my supplies and i am at wikie burnout - ie my prepping has not been sustainable due to interest more than effort or cash.
thanks tho Rob your points above mean I need to get started again and soon!
ok that worked!! Thanks! i can start making lists as soon as this BLOODY WEDDING is over on Saturday!! LOL! i know how that sounds but man i am so over it ;)
TPTB = The Powers That Be
Thx RobT - those insider nuances carry far more weight than any media speculation or hype. I too prefer regular noise to long periods of silence from countries where we know things are likely to be happening. With reference Indonesia, each time there is an earthquake/tsunami event, the cases of H5N1 cease - me thinks there is no focus / testing / attention to anything else during such a period - and who can blame the poor souls for that?
Does anyone else think that the news out of Indonesia has dried up because the poor souls keep getting hit with other disasters?
You can tell when it is ‘over night down under’ as our thread moves way down the list!
Just wanting to bump us up again :-)
Suggest we start a new thread come August 1st - just to keep all the housekeeping tidy :-)
My childs kindy class has chickens in WA, although bf not in Aus yet I gotta tell you it makes me nervous, i tell my daughter to wash her hands twice after they pick up eggs or feed the chickens! I loved the idea until I found out about Bf. Oh well prepping on as usual in silence
Hi Ozgirl.
Yes, there are so many things that we want our children to experience but now begin to become wary of. My mother used to always say that if you wrap your kids in cottonwool they will chew on it and choke. There is a lot of truth to that but we still minimise risks where we can.
I would suggest that you watch for any signs of bird die-offs in or near your area and at that point ban any and all contact with the chickens, cats etc etc.
I am moving into wind-down mode for the weekend here (4 hours ahead of you I guess in doing that) so you have a good one and we will catch you next week ;-)
Hi AnnieB Yes I had a good look at the chooks today haha and they looked fine. I am slowely prepping, hubby doesnt really know about it kind of, if he looked in the study he may wonder why we have litres of oil and bags of rice and tins everywhere, he still thinks its pie in the sky stuff. When the govt here starts giving info out then he may be willing to get involved. Until then i prep slowely but surely take care and have a good weekend :)
Bumpity bump - get us back on the top page again :-)
Nothing much happening locally - most of the news overtaken with the middle east situation.
Somewhat dismayed today when a person, heading to Bali, wasn’t concerned about safety, bird flu etc - not part of Indonesia - well I would like to know where he thinks it is then!
Hi all;
Did everyone see the news about the 91 H5N1 sequences released by Indonesia and being analysed in Melbourne? That’s pretty big news I would have thought…but not a peep about it that I’ve seen in the press here.
Not only that, but they have discovered that there have been 24 previously unknown H5N1 outbreaks in Indonesia PER WEEK between January and May. That’s right, 24 PER WEEK!! Holy snappin’ duckpoo!
Did everyone see the news about the 91 H5N1 sequences released by Indonesia
Oh dear….
Snappin’ duckpoo?!? Please don’t export that…
Hi all,
I work for a MAJOR Australian media outlet … and although not an ‘investigative journalist’, I have done a few interviews with interesting science/medicine types about BF. It was when I realised that most of the people I spoke to were stockpiling anti-virals for their own families that I needed to get a little more serious! Although I have spoken to one ‘expert’ who, in the same breath as admitting he had stockpiled anti-virals at home, said Australians shouldn’t do it - that we should make sure it is available for people who need it, etc, etc. I actually never used his interview as I found him quite hypocritical!
That said, I second the comments by OzGirl that the Australian government and health agencies are doing jack shit (that’s a little like snappin’ duckpoo!). I also wonder what my own employer is planning, if anything, given that we are THE major news source for tv and radio in Australia (you should really have figured it out by now!)
My own plans have included anti-virals, a vastly expanded vegie/fruit garden, tinned foods, etc. Plans for a water tank on the way.
But I do worry a little about people going feral if/when BF strikes … and trying to keep the family safe. I think Australians will react quite badly in the case of a pandemic simply because they are being so apathetic about it now.
Australians seem to all think they will eventually win lotto, but NEVER get sick in a pandemic!
Folk “going feral” is also a big fear of mine.
Hi Cranky Pants. I think your concern is well justified. I have been trying to discover what plans there are for food distribution when TSHTF. So far…nada. The more I don’t find out, the more worried I become.
Have any of you considered a bug out plan, as in get the hell out of the major metropolitan centres BEFORE the food runs out?
And on the media topic, I would LOVE to see Tony Abbott on the 7:30 Report with a well briefed Kerry (or maybe later with Tony Jones), and see if he could enlighten us on some of the real issues. Someone who could ask the tough questions,anyway. Maybe it will happen after the pandemic has arrived, then the news editors might consider it topical enough.
Some thoughts:
Forget about chickens and birds, they will NOT be the source of bird flu in Australia. Even if a magpie goose (the most likely source) brings it across from New Guinea (not likely until next summer’s monsoon) - you’ve still got to catch it from a bird by eating it or kissing it. Both practices are highly unlikely in Australia.
The Bangkok Post is reporting 70 - 80 cases of humans with possible bird flu as a result of the latest epidemic. I’ve got friends flying back from this area Laos/NW Cambodia this week . I’ll ask them about the quarantine measures for humans that wre in place. I’ll bet there are none.
Remember SARS - it got to Canada within 48 hours of the outbreak in Hong Kong. When bird flu(which i suspect is the name it will inevitably be known by) crosses the threshold of HTH transmission it may only take 7 days for the flu to spread around the world.
At the moment there is confirmed HTH transmission by droplet infection, the normal way that the flu spreads. Most of the clusters can be explained by oral-faecal transmission. The critical mutation will be theone that allows it to latch onto cells in our upper airways. This is almost inevitable given the constantly rising rates of BTH infection and the continuing outbreaks amongst chickens. The most likely places for this to occur are Thailand/Laos/Burma, Indonesia, Iraq and China.
As to prepping - forget it - there will inevitably be(especially if you live in a city) something you’ve forgotten to stock. Your children will want to play with their mates - how long can you keep them locked up? There is no way that you will be able to avoid contact - the question then revolves around the other two pillars of disease , your body and your environment. In this instance this means your immune response and the availability of treatment.
The real danger is that hospitals in Australia are utterly unprepared. I heard the other day that Albany Regional Hospital in W.A. ran a seminar on preparedness the result of which was a ‘consensus’ that it was so unlikely they needed to do nothing.
Hi everyone, the post about Albany Regional Hospital doing nothing is typical of the aussies attitude it wont happen to us!! It makes me mad when my friends actually laugh in my face and look at me like ive gone crazy because i even mention bird flu, I for one am stockpiling and will be quarrantining ourselves and no the little kiddies wont be playing with their mates ! cheers
Hi Kayan;
Some good thoughts there, but also something that I completely disagree with. You state that prepping is a waste, because there may be something you forgot to stock. Well, that’s the whole point of prepping, ie you take the time to work through scenarios carefully. Operative word is carefully. And if you do miss something in your preps, so what? Doesn’t mean the whole preparation is invalid. Work out the priorities, and get done as much as you can. If there are particular things you are concerned about, this is the place to put them out there. We are all trying to sort through the issues, and help each other.
Also you imply that shelter in place (SIP) is impractical because there is no way to avoid contact. I couldn’t disagree more, with respect. I believe it is possible to avoid contact using a variety of strategies such as SIP, good PPE prep, decontamination preps, and thoughtful avoidance. That doesn’t mean it would be easy, or that the kids won’t find it hard being kept indoors, but consider the alternative! I for one will be protecting my kids from exposure at all costs. And if they whinge (sp?) about not seeing their friends…tough.
Couldn’t agree more with your observation that the hospital system will be caught with their pants down unless some things change. Depends when it hits and whether there is another H2H incident that focuses their attention, I think. There are certainly some very good people trying to change the mindset.
I am starting a new thread for us - this one is getting long
Cheers
Alrighty. This thread is closed and is continued at Aus and NZ 21.