Can/will an apartment SIP work?
This is the question I would like to focus on answering. Over in the apartment preppers thread we’ve got great community-building happening but no real answers or hard facts as to how or why an apartment SIP could work if it can work. I see no point in planning on SIPPING in an apartment if I can find out now that it simply can’t work.
Here are some possible holes we need to fill (literally, metaphorically):
1) building structure - are there spaces between rooms/walls/doors in which the virus can pass/cling to?
2) heating and ventilation - can the virus be “blown” through the vents?
3) plumbing - can the virus “swim” up toilets (as SARS did in Hong Kong?)?
Are there any experts (architects, plumbers, epidemiologists) here on the fluwiki who can help us answer these? —most of you wouldn’t stop by the apartment preppers thread otherwise, I imagine, as you’re probably homesteaders anyway. So I thought I’d see if I could try to refocus and pose the essential question again here.
bumping to keep around
your 3 points above, it seems to me that they can be solved. I see no principal differences between appartments and houses on the countryside. It just depends on the details. And luck. In poor,crowded 3rd world cities however I can’t see how to get it workink for the masses.
no matter where the apartment is, I believe, there is a KEY difference between it and a house.
These other tenants share the same building with you. In a single-family-home, the only people within the walls are you and yours. You have much more control for protection. You may have neighbours, but they will still be some distance from you and behind different walls. If the virus can spread beyond local material contact (ie., if it can “climb” walls on its own etc.) then apartment dwellers are de facto SOL, in my opinion.
I would definitely like to find solutions for apartment dwellers, don’t get me wrong. But first I am just trying to find out if it can work in principle. I suppose I need to know the viral epidemiology to really know for sure.
I think then that the other main issue, besides viral epidemiology, would be trust between yourself and the other tenants. what sort of building is it? Where do your neighbours go during the day? what sorts of contacts do they make? are they as intelligent and informed as you are and willing to prep? do they know you well enough to feel comfortable knocking on your door (or worse) when they hear/smell that you are cooking or boiling water when they themselves have nothing left? could there be potential open doors for vandalism in your building?
I suppose that many of the issues facing apartment dwellers are the same as homeowners (of course), but the multi-unit building seems to me to condense and amplify these issues considerably, to the point of raising the question of whether ANY apartment SIP can work.
I think additional issue for apartment dweller is, in cold climate, as discussed on apartment dweller thread, How to keep warm, and how to cook. But keeping warm especially.
Many apartment dwellers can’t store Kerosene, Propane, Butane, Gas, etc because they don’t have LAND to store things or put up a storage shed. Have read it isn’t safe to store indoors. I plan to put up tent indoors as suggested, but that is just for sleeping naturally. SO, I’d add to ricewiki’s good questions…4)is it really feasible to Live in a cold climate without any heat in the winter?
Another thread said “our ancestors did it” (lived without heating). I would say, No, they had fire. a campfire, a fireplace, a woodstove. Things were cold-no central heating- but not Devoid of any source of warmth as an appartment dweller would seemingly be in these cirumstances..And they could eat warm food because they had stove or fire. Most apartments don’t have a fireplace. I don’t. So can’t use my hobo stove to keep warm, or charcoal or let my campstove burn indoors. Not that I can store the fuel safely anyway. Only solution is living in one room, covering windows with plastic/cardboard/ducktape, using tent. And possibly some sterno or canned heat.
I wonder if people think this is actually feasible, to live this way in the winter without a source of warmth in the living space. Note that I wouldn’t be moving around so much in this small space, so little excersize (apartments are small) to warm me also.
in a house with a family you have the same problems. In an appartment you might be able to isolate from others, they won’t smell what you cook and can’t break your door, if it’s stable. It can be solved. I’m still missing a study or government recommendations… You could make some rules now and those who disagree would have to leave when panflu hits.
In an apartment building high rise, people on your floor can DEFINITELY smell you cooking. Anything with spices, especially curry, etc. and meat, can be smelled when entering the floor. In my experience anyway.
But we should really focus on the key aspects of the question and leave these other, secondary issues to the apartment dwellers thread (secondary because they will mean nothing if the virus can (or evolve to being able to) walk beneath doors or be blown in on the breeze, or climb up toilets).
Ricewiki : I live in an apartment in a crowded, third world country. Many questions can be tought through and solved. For instance, I use split air conditioning, thus no air is pulled in from outside. No problem there. Opening a window now and then would in my opinion not be a problem if there is no adjacent window within a few feet were others are coughing and sneezing :)
What would worry me:
- touching a newspaper or anything else that is delivered.
- anyone going out or coming in.
I did have a rat swim into the toilet bowl, but that was on the ground floor when I lived in an independent house years ago. It was a big one and he looked mean at me… I could not flush him down and had to call in the gardener to kill it. Needless to say, for the rest of my life, I look into the bowl before I sit on any toilet :)
But I do not believe viruses could contaminate the water in the toilet and anyway, I don’t intend to touch or drink that water.
Off-topic maybe, but you wrote that you live alone. Now that is something I would not be able to do, SIP by myself. My wife and kids drive me crazy sometimes, but SIP by myself ? Not an option for me.
Ricewiki- One source to look into (and I will try later on, if I can figure it out) is:How did the apartment dwellers in Isreal get ‘ready’ for chemical bombs during the first Gulf war?(besides gas masks). They may have plans already for bio terrorism, too- they seem to have prepared for a lot of different scenarios.
I had hoped my own question—can one live thru a northern winter without any heat or fire at all—could also be concidered because it is directly relevant to topic.(feasible to Sip in an apartment?)..and the only other variable I personally havn’t been able to get clear on from looking thru the wiki for months. For the same reason as ricewiki, posting it on the Apartment dwellers thread would not open it up to all fluwikians and their helpful advice.(and I think people might respond to your thread ricewiki better than mine a newbie! ;))
Contrary to what anonymous says, the heat issue IS very different in an apartment which I thought I explained adequately. This is my own personal decision point and important in my life. most apartment dwellers have no land (or shared unsecure land)…no safe place to store fuel…no ability to use propane, butane, kerosene. Often no fireplace. No ability to install solar, or woodstove. Many many of us will need to know…is it possible to live thru a cold winter without any source of fire..with little excersize, no warm food or drink except by sterno. An indoor tent will keep you warm when you sleep, what about all day I wonder.
THis is my decison point because it doesn’t seem we can know in advance how the virus will behave…will it be like SARS and swim up the toilet, or more like usual flu? Certainly the questions at start of thread are useful to explore…perhaps to figure out what can be done to Block vents for example? (I for one would block the bottom of my door with a bleach-solution dampened towel (not my idea)because anywhere air comes in Theoretically so can even normal flu virus. I am pretty certain as a bs-level microbiologist by training that it can’t cling to walls more than that it lives 48 hours on surfaces so you don’t want to touch common surfaces. But we won’t know the answers really on what it can do until it comes, maybe after. I can’t base decisions on that except to err on the side of caution.
Ricewiki be sure you consider the heat issue-Chicago is cooold!-- as well as your ‘virus spreading issue’s” you list, and the safety/security issues and inherant dangers in SIP alone. It’s alot ricewiki!
If I had family, I would probably find a way to get them to prep or even prep for them (with their money as I have little) and Hope I would be able to make it to them to SIP with them (but if not, no waste at all..they live!). I would also prep in case i got stuck here…perhaps cheaply with rice beans corn and vitamins for main food (which is main expense after meds). I would arrange with a friend with a car to bug out with her, and prep the car and my bug out bag. good luck to you with your decision
Yes, if you’re in an apartment with no balcony or real access to the outdoors, that’s almost a whole different category of apartment problem. I think I was assuming having a balcony, however small. The heat issue is defnitely important. But hey, with global warming really beginning to heat up (another 40–50 years and Miami, Bejing, Shanghai will be underwater), we may not have to worry so much about that;)
I’m not afraid of SIPPING alone in principle. If I was in a crime-ridden ghetto, yeah. I would be. But in principle, I can go awhile alone.
kc_quiet: thanks for that tip. I’ll see if I can look into that.
Albert: good point about the paper delivery, although there may not be any. If you let it sit for three full days though, you should be okay, I think. according to John Barry’s book.
Jplanner,
If you cannot store energy, and you cannot heat, then you will have no water as your pipes will burst. Unless you have stored water, or a alternative way to flush, you may not be able to stay there regardless as those around/above you will have the same problem. Hopefully, it will be a mild winter.
why would the pipes burst with no heat?
If you have no acess to a heat source you would be in danger of hypothermia. Yes you can rough it for a short period of time but I wouldnt want to live that way for an extended period of time. Frankly you would be miserable. Need to look at a plan B IMO. But Im a wossbutt, not into long periods of discomfort.
Ricewiki- In the winter, water pipes often freeze and burst. During ice storms with no electricity we have been fortunate here to have gas heated water, which we pretty much keep moving through the pipes to keep them from freezing. There are some insulated wraps that are supposed to help too.
I have a porch like mamy apartment dwellers. Still not supposed to store kerosene propane or gas there for safety. Also in my city it is illegal to have charcoal fire on wooden porch (has low ceiling) tho I would attemped small one, fearfully. Cooking on it also draws unwanted attention to self. Still having balcony doens’t help with heat issue, freezing indoors. I assume I won’t have water and have made provisions to store and when the SHTF..because of possibility of no one having water with system shutting down…but, Consumer, your pipe bursting advice is important—so thanks— because come spring we then still would be waterless even if the water was back on. Janetn-thanks for feedback. problem is, I have no family to SIP with. Friends in suburbs will not prep, I can’t afford to prep for them. IT may come down to staying here and freezing vs going there and starving (and probably freezing). Quickly running out of food if I share mine with four others. Thats why my question is so important to me…will I freeze? and Ricewiki’s to her. So thanks all.
… didn’t mean to hijack thread Ricewiki, was hoping to add my one question to your three. I will start a thread someday with my questions…I am all prepped and have everything figured out except that above dilemma. Perhaps will entitle thread “please help with your advice!” might get abundant response. I have to learn to start a new thread first! ;)
jplanner, temperature is definitely a vital consideration in prepping. No heating or warm food in a cold environment does not sound a livable situation to me.
We have installed a second cooking system with propane in the kitchen because the gas pressure was too low to use last year. The bottle of propane gas stands near the door of the verandah of the kitchen. I am not aware of any law stopping me from doing this, but I don’t live in the US. When the pandemic starts I intend to buy at least another few bottles of propane to keep us going if the normal gas supply would fail.
Although I live in a tropical and humid country, I can offer some advice: have a look at the gear that mountaneers wear to keep warm. Thermal underwear for instance. I once travelled to East Europe in the middle of winter and my dad’s long underwear was a life saver !
People can survive in very cold climates with very limited shelter and heat … check out the Inuit peoples.
However, unless that is a lifestyle that you are used to or you have someone, and experienced someone, there to guide you it will be a bad choice except in cases of extreme emergency.
A way to avoid the burst pipe syndrome is:
You can “insulate” your apartment … any dwelling really … the same way they did during the medieval era. They put carpets/rugs on the walls. What most consider a decorative effect was actually a good way to insulate for warmth in those drafty castles and fortresses. Also, look for particular draft areas like around windows and doors. You may want to consider adding plastic to your windows if you don’t have storm windows.
My dad was stationed in Greenland for a year when I was a kid. He learned there were some things you could do and something things you didn’t do and some things you couldn’t do. Learn the skills now … rather than later the hard way.
As for the opposite problem, humid HEAT, there are even less solutions. There is a power shortage since long over here, and we experience rolling blackouts. One to two hours on a good day, four to six on other days. It is really exhausting. Some rich people in independent houses run big generators that allow them to run their air conditioners but that is definitely not an option if you live in an apartment. Fans with rechargeable batteries are for sale here but that only helps, a bit, for short power interruptions. The trigger for my bugout plan would be the heat.
Albert – at 09:52
You remind me that it is time to address some of the heat issues in our home. We live in FL and are subject to power outages … storms and squirrels are both culprits around here.
I want to set up our screen room in such a way that if we had to we could use it as a method of cross ventilation in times of heat.
I’m also going to look into some plastic deck chairs in case we need to use it as a sleeping porch. Its not the perfect set up for this, but it is better than nothing … but I need to test it out first.
It’s one thing to prep for avoiding public exposure, by having enough food to SIP. It’s another big leap to prepare for a long loss of power. Even if it is a small chance, worst case scenario, such a clamity is worth planning what you need ahead of time. Mountaineering sport clothing has the warmest hightech materials: fine merino wool, silk, spandex combined for long underwear, socks, caps, clothes. Consider getting a set for each family member, just in case. It’s an investment that can be used winter activities anyway. Get old wool sweaters from thrift shops, and wash them to shrink them to fit tight and thick, for each family member. Have enough sleeping bags and air mattresses.
As has been said before, you need to all be in one room to use body heat. Pick a room that has three interior walls and a sunniest window exposure wall. Try to store no cook food, peanut butter, crackers, cereal boxes, granola bars, canned soups & stews. You need to have a lot of the 5 gallon collaspable water bags to fill when power goes off. One gallon a day per person is a lot of those bags, but when you fill them they will be in a room you won’t be using anymore.
One thing going for you is that many city dwellers will be evacuating after a week. Many people have cars, even lower class people. And those who don’t have cars, will eventually start walking out too. With no power, all store windows will be broken and no more food can be delivered to stores that are broken and powerless. So people without food stockpiles will have to leave. A large city like NYC, I don’t see how officials can distribute enough food, except for token spots that will be mobbed. The sick and elderly will be left, and the predators will have battle attrition from each other. Eventually you’ll be in a largely deserted building, but for security you must keep your existence under cover. Don’t use flashlights except for reading under a blanket for example. Don’t open and shut curtains, etc. Your biggest danger is people so you don’t want to be driven out of hiding for water. However, for a month or two, if you are prepared, you can do it. I can’t imagine that water won’t come back on, but if you do run out of water, you’ll have to get access to a flat roof and put up several kiddie pools for rain water.
Thanks for your heat comments, folks.
I sure hope this virus doesn’t “swim up the toilet”. I haven’t read much about SARS and how that could occur, but I bet knowing the mechanism for how the SARS virus could be transmitted via shared plumbing could help us understand the possibilites with H5N1.
Also, if anyone is a plumber or knows one, he could help explain how shared plumbing is connected in large apartement buildings (or hotels in SARS case).
where are the official recommendations on how to prepare appartments for panflu-SIP ? Are there companies specialized in this ? If not, shouldn’t we found one ?
I read somewhere that controlling humidity and temperature could cause the virus to die. In a sickroom or safe room/apartment, kept moist and warm, would the virus be less likely to float in the air?
What is the humidity content of the air? What is the air temperature?
Seems if you wanted to keep the virus from floating, you might live in a sauna type enviroment…no bird flu in the Amazon that I know of.
The plaster might fall and the wallpaper too, but hey, being alive, you can repair it someday.
there are these air-filtering machines. I think anon22 has one. I also read about one with the Korean-Sauerkraut as filter (what was the name?). Have these been tested independently ?
Maybe I don’t understand this situation fully, but I don’t see how living in an apartment building is going to be much more dangerous than a single family dwelling. My neighbor lives right across the street and in an SIP situation I fully expect to converse with him while we stand in our own yards. This virus is not like some kind of deadly nerve toxin that will kill you if you are in contact with a few ppm of it. Granted if I lived in an apartment I would have spray bottles of bleach solution always handy and I would keep regularly dousing the air vents and door seals.
In the event of a pandemic, I would expect to see a majority of those people who prepared well survive an SIP in apartments.
Using a tent in one room of your apartment to stay warm with power failure in a cold climate is a very good idea. Most of the tents people have kicking around are 3 season and not built for winter temps. If you’ve got food, water, meds, etc. prepped to a comfortable level and you want to splurge on something- consider a ‘keep you warm on a mountain-side in a blizzard’ tent. Nice to pop in your trunk (along with rations, water, flashlight, etc.) if you make frequent road trips in winter. If you ever break down in the middle of nowhere when it’s cold you’ll be happy you have it.
I love Mountain Equipment Co-op…www.mec.ca
They’re in Canada, but similar companies carrying similar products can be found in many countries.
Jp planner: “shared unsecure land)…no safe place to store fuel…no ability to use propane, butane, kerosene.”
I realy disagre on this, i got 5 liter of kerosene, 3 liters of pure alcohol stored under my sink in the kitchen. It has been there for many years, what is the problem? It seems to me that many people belive that once a fuel is indoors, something strange happens with it and it explodes? Well it dont.. Key is, not to hughe amuonts,. because in case of a fire there will be a problem. (but you dont intend to put your house on fire do you? Second: Use bottles that is recomended type. Aluminum botlles are very god, and the bottles the fuels are sold in is in fact recomended type… dont store it near a oven or open flame, and everything will be just fine!
small gas canister, they dont leak unless someone hits them hard with something, so they are safe! Once agian the problem is if the amunth of them is to large, and this is not for your protection, its fore the firebrigade. they like to know that the house want explode when entering it during a fire.
Prepping for apartments is fully posible, and should be looked at with a littel bit more positive view than often seen here. Milions of homes and apartment uses the larger natural gas cans (like the one you would use in a grill) if they (including my old mother) can do this, so can you. Only learn the adekvate handeling rules of flamabele materials.
Key question on SIP in a flat is, will you stay indoors the whole time? Or is it a neceityy to get outdoors once in a while (whitout being in contact with people.) The only way to do this would be to make sure all common areras are dead clean, it means you will have to cooperate with neighbours on washing very often, (with bleach) to prevent dust from blowing into your flat when doors are opened… And any window in bottom and top of stairs should be open to create a drag that ventilates the air.
A guide on how to do this could be made in advance, and discusessed with neighbours when a pandemic is a fact.
isn’t there some 2-compound fuel, each compound is safe but when mixing it burns ?
In the closed thread, “A simple plan.” I made the suggestion that the entrance to all buildings be the point of bio-security measures. Simple: full body rain coat with hood, latex gloves, swimmer goggles, n95 mask, rubber boots. Somebody is on duty 24/7 and you have a pan of bleach water for them to step in and a spray bottle of bleach to clean the outside surfaces of what they have on. They touch nothing but their door knob is the idea. Anything they carry touches nothing and gets put down in their apartment. A small Coleman camp stove used very carefully…C02…fire hazard is something to think about. You can keep water on a drip and the pipe will not burst. Consider emergency space blankets in a small shelter area inside…just tack them to cardboard, your walls, your ceiling especially, mice can carry h5n1 so just put steel wool around all pipes etc. Outside air should be fine in general so make sure you don’t seal over everything and try to cook. I lived in Alaska when the heat went out, no electricity, for a two day period while it was about −30f. It can be done, just dress in layers of warm things. We did cold weather indoctrination for two days in the woods at −40 below. Get the right boots/socks and gloves..best you can afford. Have a plan, before you decide to leave.
Hilbilly Bill: see ricewiki – at 08:31 on June 11 above.
MaMa - good idea about the tent. I saw that mentioned somewhere a long while ago and forgot about it. I’m thinking of getting one, now.
As Urdar-Norge said: “…it means you will have to cooperate with neighbours on washing very often, (with bleach) to prevent dust from blowing into your flat when doors are opened…”
Yeah right - it’s tough enough to get my own family to coooperate on any one thing, let alone somethign necessary to save lives. I wouldn’t count on being able to trust neighbours to hold standards as high as you yourself do. In rare cases you may have awesome neighbour tenants you can see eye to eye with and share the same standards and education on the issue, but in most places I would say this wouldn’t work. And I’ve lived in quite a variety of rental situations.
ricewiki – at 12:46 The virus is shed by those infected. True, it can “float” for a time in the air, but it has no ability to “climb” walls. Again, you are confusing the viri with some type of aerosol nerve gas.
I understand that apartment dwellers have no control over other occupants in the building. I may not have total control over those who SIP with me. You DO have control over the interior of your apartment. I have control over the interior of my house. I can not prevent someone from coming up on my porch and banging on my door. How is that different from the situation if I lived in an apartment?
Hillbilly
Thanks for helping clarify this together. Those points are logical and right. But the uncertainty of the situation - IMO - is further exacerbated in most rental situations, because
In principle, it is the same as SIP in a detached house. But in fact, each of these points invites further uncertainty and more chances for infection. If one is just SIP with their own family, one knows them, their behaviour, etc., and SIP with only 3–4−5 others close to them. In a high-rise, for example, one is “SIP” with hundreds of others, and this means less control. You know them less etc. etc.
In the context of our discussions on public unrest, it is easy to see why/how this presents a problem. (I was not trying to suggest that people SIP in detached homes will have it “easy.” I am just trying to focus on a unique problem, like those with dietary needs, med needs, etc. etc.)
anonymous: no there is no such thing, but in rokets they use mixing to create more powerful fuels.
If you people are so paranoid about kerosen/lampoil, why don you just try it out? It is hardly any more flamable than olive oil..
Buy a bottle of lampoil, go outside, bring a old plate, spill a dash of oil in the plate and try to ignite it. I will give you a a hughe award if you are able to do so.. Then put a piece of cotton into the oil, try it now. it easaly burns. Why? becuase kerosene needs to be heated to a hige temperature before it ignites. The burning cotton does the trick. No repate the same experiment with oilive oil, or any food oil. Se waht happens? Its just the same.
so all of us should realy reconsider the praksis of storing “dangerous, flamable explosives” like virging olive oil.. not to mention the insane storage of highly flamabal vodka! That is realy dangerous ;)
…so a small multifuel burner from coleman will keep your food warm for months with a gallon of lampoil. If heating is important,( as mentioned, you can hardly freeze to death inside a house if you have enough blankets etc) you may just buy one of thise, http://www.suburbanpropane.com/products/roomheat.html and a tank of propane. ( and if your house is on a fire, you should warn the firebrigade about the tank.)
ricewiki – at 13:04 Yes, I understand what you are saying, but I still don’t see apartment SIP as un-doable. I certainly would not want to be in a high-rise apartment building during a quarantine, but I think it would be possible to survive there. Both apartment living and single family dwellings have their challenges. In my case I have two seperate locations to provide for and protect. More than once I have thought how much easier it would be if I were single and hunkered down in an apartment.
Let’s try to clear some confusion.
The definition of shelter in place is “selecting a small, interior room, with no or few windows, and taking refuge there.”
Sheltering in place does not mean your whole apartment. You should choose 1 room to SIP. Therefore, I agree with HBB - I don’t see any difference between an apartment and a single family dwelling. True, there are many more people and you need to be especially careful if you enter and exit the building not to touch anything.
In answer to your questions about the Israelis, they use duct tape and heavy plastic to cover the door cracks, windows, and vents in their apartments and homes in case of a biological or chemical attack.
Bluebonnet – at 14:06 I was unaware that there was an official definition of Sheltering in Place. Does Webster know about this?
No, but the National Terror Alert Resource Center does!
Amazing what you can find with Google, isn’t it?
It sure is!
It’s interesting that SIP “officially” means to stay in ONE ROOM - that doesn’t make sense, unless one room includes the bathroom, bedroom, kitchen too…
anyone actually planning to stay in one room with no windows? Bluebonnet, are you? So I don’t see how this official definition clarifies confusion at all. People will be SIP in their entire house - we know that. C’mon!
ricewiki,
The link is for a SIP for an NBC attack, in which you would want to have as small a territory to “defend” as possible. A pandemic is a rather different matter, unless you are setting up a sick room.
I am planning on SIP in an apartment, and honestly, I think the biggest challenge will be not drawing attention to ourselves. Once electricity goes, our blinds will not open for ANYTHING.
The basic issues can be addressed I believe. We are on the ground floor, giving us both advantages and disadvantages. We can easily take our dogs out through our sliding glass doors - and they bark up a storm, which is a benefit; but that opens us up to intruders. To counteract this, we will use 2×4′s screwed into the window frames to prevent anyone from opening them, and one person will be sleeping with the gun next to the sliding door. We will not be cooking past a certain point - our plan is to cook everything on the grill that we can before electricity goes - once looting starts, we stop (and yes, I understand this isn’t an exact science). To this end, I have stored a significant supply of non-cook food. As for heating, we have plenty of winter clothes (living in New Hampshire) that we use for skiing, etc. It is VERY doable to survive if you have the right gear - I will be sure to stock up on the layers, as well as some down comforters, sleeping bags, etc., in the near future. A tent in one room is also an excellent idea. Items such as down, microfibers, and silk are wonderful at protecting you from the cold. It would suck to live in a very cold one room - no doubt - but the end result is totally worth it. If you ultimately need to start a controlled fire vented with a cracked window, well, it is very possible, although you might be exposing yourself.
As for pipes - honestly, keep a supply of water if at all possible. We are using 1-gallon freezer baggies that will be filled WTSHTF on top of another 200+ gallons of spring water. Dripping is a good way to prevent freezing if temps aren’t too far below zero. But if you have the stored water, then freezing pipes are an issue only for toilets - in which case, we’d dump the refuse in a ight bag outside late at night.
I do not anticipate electricity being the worst problem for any length of time - but measures can be taken to deal with cold. It may be uncomfortable, but it can be done.
Let’s keep sharing ideas - this is important!
I wanted to add my comments on the “other residents” issue. If I am SIP, I don’t intend to leave, period. So I won’t be exposing myself to other tentants in that regard. And from what I understand, influenza will not be something that comes up from the toilet - it is a fairly weak virus (an ugly one), but a weak one nonetheless. I have never gotten the seasonal flu from a toilet. I just don’t see that happening. Is there any evidence (besides SARS) that suggest this might be the case with influenza?
If my husband has to continue work, then we will set up our quarantine room (which thankfully we have a great apartment layout for just such a measure). But I don’t think I am too worried about germs coming from others - just their desperation when they begin the starve.
It seems to me that you have to evaluate each living situation individually when deciding where you want to hole up, and I don’t think a house is necessarily any better than an apartment for that purpose. Either way, what’s outside your door is potentially dangerous. I guess I don’t get why it matters whether what’s outside your door happens to be a hallway or a sidewalk. The only thing that would concern me about apartment living in a pandemic is the possibility of shared heating, venting, etc. That’s not an issue for me, but it might be for others.
As I’ve written before, I think I’m much better off in my second-floor apartment than my parents are in their house with all those ground-floor windows, the back yard that all their neighbors can see into, etc. If things got really bad, it might be a good idea to move my parents in here (oy).
How long do you think a family could SIP in 1 room? I dont see it being feasible. I surely see it being miserable. A wave could last months whatever plan you make it has to be sustanible for a long period. Mentally I dont see staying in one room for an expended period.as doable. I wouldnt want to go that route, esp. with children. At least in a home you could feasalbly put in an alteranive form of heat such as a woodstove.
The SIP that Bluebonnet is referring to is the short-term (day or two) hiding out that you’re supposed to do in case of a nuclear, biological, or chemical attack (NBC, as Melanie wrote earlier). I don’t think that’s the definition of SIP that Flu Wikians typically use. You’re right, janetn, that sort of one-room SIP just isn’t feasible for the long term.
ricewiki:
I notice in your thread title you didn’t bother to define SIP. Took me on the order of three to five minutes to find the definition.
I just love to spend time doing such!!!
Thanks
I’d like to add something that I’ve mentioned before….I have developed a habit of putting only COOKED meat in my freezer. I’ll buy hot dogs, ribs, hamburger meat, roasts, etc. and they immediately go into the refrigerator, then in the next day or so I’ll cook (the hotdogs are already cooked) ribs, make meatloaf, make pl;ain roast or BBQ, etc. and then freeze it fully cooked. By reheating either on the stove, in the oven, the microwave, or by reheating on a Sterno stove, it still tastes just wonderful!
The reason this is important is that if you start doing the same thing, if your power goes out for a long time, you won’t have to worry about the neighbors smelling much — just reheat — or even eat cold, once the food has thawed. That way your neighbors don’t smell anything, you get the benefit of not losing uncooked meat to the power outage quite as much as you would if it were uncooked, and you’re not using up precious fuel to cook meat that you might need for heating!
Do I intend to SIP in one room? Yes, but only as a last resort should things REALLY get bad. In fact it would be so bad, I would be unable to bug out to another location.
I have one small room in my house with no windows. It makes a perfect “hideout”, if you will. Should TSHTF in a really bad way - we will retreat to this hideout.
In the hideout no one in the neighborhood will be able to see any lights, smell any cooking or even know that we are still in the house. We won’t cook in the hideout - no cook preps only. I have cots, portable toilet, no cook preps, etc. already in place.
The room’s purpose is for a short duration shelter in place - 2 to 3 days at most. It would be used by us in the event of extreme civil unrest.
Like the rest of you, I am planning to flu sip in my home. But in the worst case scenario, I do have this one room we can retreat into and fully defend, if necessary.
Let’s just all hope it NEVER gets to that point.
anon 33 – at 04:38
You’re welcome. SIP is a common term here on the wiki - it is defined in the Forum Shorthand page on the left under “Discussion Forum”, and, there is an official definition given here on this thread too. I’m sorry you had to spend three minutes wondering about what it meant. You can also just ask - post and someone will quickly let you know. In many of my other posts I have sometimes included (shelter in place) behind the acronym, just for random occasions like this. Sorry it wasn’t this thread!
you’re welcome ricewiki!
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