A quick review of where we are.
There have been many mentions of other, more exotic animals that may be play a role in the evolution of H5N1. This is certainly possible. A wide variety of animals have been shown to be infected by H5N1. You can find a partial list here.
However, we should not be diverted from the fact that millions of pigs have died with symptoms consistent with H5N1 infection in Southern China. Although a long laundry list of possible causes has been presented, no authoritative source in China or outside of it has provided a definitive diagnosis. I, for one, find this extraordinary.
Why is this? Surely if a common pathogen was responsible, Chinese officials would respond to the three RFIs from Promed and provide the data to the OIE. This has not happened. We are left with 2 other possibilities, IMO.
or
The recent draconian censorship laws enacted in China may or may not be related to option 2. We don’t know for sure. But if option 2 is correct, they sure would be convenient.
Why are pigs important?
Although pigs are not the only animal in which influenza viruses may evolve, it is especially important to determine whenever they are infected with H5N1 for several reasons.
Although a pandemic strain of H5N1 may not result from infections of pigs in China, this is certainly a very real possibility that I suspect keeps a number of virologists up late at night.
Pity we don’t know what has been killing millions of pigs in China.
Researchers at Tulane report that “Bats or other cave dwelling animals may have been responsible for the deadly 1998–2000 outbreak of Marburg hemorrhagic fever among gold miners in the Democratic Republic of the Congo…more
http://tinyurl.com/qqbqe [Open in new window]
bump
This would probably be a good point to discuss something that has been bothering me for a couple of years…do we really understand how inherently dangerous this virus is…due to its previously unseen fexibility.
In the past, when it comes to exotic emerging viruses there has always been a clear host transtion chain…SARS - bat, civet cat. Nipah bat, pigs. etc. and as NJPreppie has said so well, bats seem to always be at the index case level.
H5N1 by all appearances seems to be unique in a number of things but to me what is really unique is its host range. Usually we have a straight line…control one species in the line and the disease is cut-off.
H5N1 on the other hand…is like the filamentous structure of mycellium travelling through the soil and organic material of a forest. It might be easier to discuss animals it can’t infect…lizards and other cold blooded animals…pretty hard to stop the march when all of nature has been harnessed on behalf of the virus involved.
I don’t think we have a historical precedent in our lifetimes. I think it is a mistake to compare this but with anything that came before including H1N1. Thanks.
(escaped lab virus infecting Korean Swine)
Recombinomics Commentary February 7, 2005 (excerpt-old posting)
Sequences of the WSN/33 PA gene from defective interfering (DI) RNA has been made available at GenBank. These four sequences, are 400 (D10574), 432 (D10573), 462 (D12779), 560 (D12778) bp in length and are being studied for their ability to interfere with WSN/33 replication. WSN/33 is a popular H1N1 lab strain of influenza that was isolated from mouse brains in 1940. It grows well in tissue culture and is used in a variety of lab experiments, including those that study the lethality of genes from the 1918 pandemic strain. WSN/33 is a dangerous strain because it is derived from a 1933 isolate, the first human flu virus ever isolated in a lab, and it is missing a glycosylation site that allows it to sequester plamsminogen, resulting in a broad host range and neurotropism.
The virus has managed to move from a secured lab environment to infect swine on farms in Korea. This has presented a significant health risk because the virus has become widespread and has both reassorted and recombined with Korean avian (H9N2) genes. Six of the sequences became publicly available at the end of November, 2004 although the health risk posed by these isolates has not been addressed publicly by the WHO.
In addition to the health concerns, the mystery on how the virus moved from a lab to many pigs on various farms in Korea has not been addressed. The virus is not grown in the Korean lab that sequences the swine isolates, and each of the 6 isolates on deposit is different in composition and/or sequence. Two of the isolates are H1N1 and 4 are H9N2. The gene sequences differ slightly between isolates as do the number of human genes (which range from 3–7). The gene sequence differences (polymorphisms) however can be used to trace the origin of the WSN/33 sequences. There are several polymorphisms found in all of the WSN/33 swine sequences that differ from the WSN/33 sequences from the lab strain. One difference was in the PA gene. All of the swine isolates are G1990A, while the WSN/33 sequence is the 1990G wild type.
The WSN/33 could have infected the pigs (or birds which then infected the pigs) via a civilian lab accident. Alternatively, these sequences could represent a military experiment that resulted in an unplanned release. Moreover, at this point bioterrorism cannot be ruled out.
However, since at least six WSN/33 related sequences from swine are already publicly available and these isolates contain informative markers, an aggressive investigation should be able to determine the source of the WSN/33 sequences in swine in Korea.”
Klatu. It is nice to know that Dr. Niman and Dr. Monotreme agree on something…
…I believe that this is Monotreme’s argument…H5N1 may have been created by the inadvertent release of an experiment from a secure laboratory in China…and the Governments cover-up is in place to prevent some smart scientist like Monotreme from proving it. The World Health Organizations role in this, like SARS, will only come out during an inquiry after the fact.
Now, it seems that we have vaccine being produced in every backyard lab in East Asia…a significant number of these vaccines will be assisting the virus in its adaptions to pigs and therefore humans.
If there is one factor that indicates to me that we are very close to a pandemic…the widespread dispersal and control of vaccines is it.
Tom DVM wrote at 9:37: a significant number of these vaccines will be assisting the virus in its adaptions to pigs and therefore humans.
Tom, if you or anyone else can clarify how inappropriate vaccines can assist in adaptation, that would be helpful. Thanks.
Beehiver. There would be many different ways that this could happen and Monotreme of course would be the person to answer your question but here are a couple of ways:
1) As I’m sure you know, all killed vaccines are grown alive and then killed through chemical means or heat before they are injected. It can happen that the virus is not killed in the process and you end up infecting animals rather than vaccinating them against disease.
2) Then there are the fools that decide that if killed vaccines don’t work they will use live vaccines…in that case they are attempting to induce mild infections to provide immunity…the problem is that influenza is too unstable and will mutate from the benign, low path strain to a high pathogen strain and /or it gives H5N1 a further strain to recombine, reassort with or they don’t pick a strain that is harmless enough.
3) There is the murky world of the attenuated vaccines which try to alter live virus cultures without killing them…also many opportunities for mistakes.
4) I mentioned vaccine strains introduced to avian flocks allowing recombination…vaccines also remove any chance of identification of disease or eradication…vaccines can allow the virus to go underground in the sense that chickens are infected with the virus but can not be detected (subclinical infections)…this allows the virus to adapt much more efficiently because it is no longer killing its host and we are not removing them to allow further spread to other animals.
Thanks for the question.
beehiver. Something tells me that Chinese Government scientists have been experimenting with and vaccinating Chinese pigs herds against H5N1.
Why? Maybe someone can come up with an economic figure of the dollars generated by China’s pork industry both domestic and exports. Believe me, the number will absolutely flabergast you.
They must defend this industry…they identified H5N1 in pigs in 1997…it would only be prudent to explore vaccinations if for no other reason then they couldn’t afford to lose both poultry and pigs as a food supply during a pandemic.
If Monotreme is right…and I believe Monotreme and De jure are right…that there was an inadvertent release of vaccine strains of H5N2 from Chinese laboratories that caused H5N1 in the first place…
…then the Chinese Government Scientists are not the ‘brightest lights’ on the earth in respect to vaccine development.
If you make mistakes gut don’t acknowledge them…you make more mistakes and that is what I believe we are seeing in China right now in respect to the widespread illness in pigs that could have been caused by a bad vaccine or by release of H5N1 into pig populations through a bad vaccine.
Sorry, it should have read…that there was an inadvertent release of vaccine strains of H5N1 from Chinese laboratories that caused H5N1 in the first place.
Tom DVM – at 10:22 Maybe someone can come up with an economic figure of the dollars generated by China’s pork industry both domestic and exports.
All the figures I found for Chinese domestic consumption were old (2000 & 2002).
EXPORT:
http://www.engormix.com/e_news_view.asp?news=9269&AREA=POR
In 2005, China’s import and export of food and agricultural products were worth a total of US$55.83 billion, up 9.3 percent compared with a year ago. Exports of food products were valued at US$22.59 billion, an increase of 16 percent on-year.
Export volume of pork products declined 6.9 percent to 386,100 tonnes in 2005 while the value was up 38.1 percent on-year to US$718 million.
From this January to June this year, cumulative export volume and value of pork products were at 199,400 tonnes and US$353 million respectively, and both were up by a weaker-than-expected 2.94 percent and 0.57 percent.
Tom DVM, thanks for pulling these thoughts together.
Regarding your points 1 & 2 above (at 10:08)…because influenza virus which as an single-stranded RNA virus has such poor proof-reading mechanism, thus producing numerous mutations - is it reasonable to assume that live and attenuated vaccines may contain mutated virus copies?
Now that I’m thinking about it, even the killed vaccines had to come from source material grown on eggs (or a cell media of some sort), and in the process of reproduction on those eggs, the virus could have mutated. Some it’s not entirely unrealistic that any influenza vaccine anywhere, could contain mutated antigens not fully in line with the stated strain on the label? Am I off-base with this line of thinking here? Of course, careful lab & manufacturing procedures would probably lessen that possibility. But it seems that given how ssRNA viruses reproduce, the possibility must be nonetheless acknowledged?
Honestly, I would really like to ignore this nagging thought, as it’s giving me a real funny feeling in the pit of my stomach. Your post turned on that light bulb, but nothing in my current knowledge about influenza virus will make it go out. I hope somebody has further input.
Sorry for typo above! This sentence should have read:
So it’s not entirely unrealistic that any influenza vaccine anywhere, could contain mutated antigens not fully in line with the stated strain on the label?
beehiver. You have introduced something to the debate that I have never thought about before…yes, I think you are right…the process of making a vaccine would produce mutations…a vaccine factory is in effect actually a mutation factory…
…but, and this is a BIG BUT, if you handle the killing process properly…you will be injecting dead virus particles so whether it has mutated doesn’t really matter in the one related sense…
…but not in the other…related to driving clinical infections sub-clinical so conveniently, you won’t be able to identify them and be forced to cull whole farm populations.
Where your comment really becomes important is when they start playing with live vaccine or modified live vaccines or attenuated vaccines…the descriptive wording is deceptive of course…and even experts have trouble deciding the exact fine differences.
Also, we should keep in mind that each individual virus in the field, will reproduce itself millions or billions of times as well…each one is its own mutation factory…
…this works for us in limiting the length of pandemics historically and against us in the sense that in my opinion, vaccines don’t work because the virus mutates away before the vaccine can be produced. This does not happen with any other pathogen that I know of.
DennisC – wrote:
“I can see it now, men in space suits, going through the barnyards looking for eggs when all the chickens are dead or culled. I know they have “culled” millions of chickens in INDO. and Vet. You got to have chickens to have eggs.
To my knowledge there are no large level 4 chicken coops.
I am with you on the vaccine. I don’t think I will be getting a shot- at least not till the “peaks” are long passed.
My bottom line is: don’t expect many eggs from culled chickens.
beehiver, Tom DVM and Klatu,
It’s certainly possible that H5N1 evolved naturally in China. There is no conclusive evidence that it didn’t. However, there are three reasons why I have speculated that it might have had some help.
What does this mean? One possibility is that a live vaccine was used to protect pigs against H1N1, a common pig flu virus. This may have reassorted with H5N1. Or there was an attempt to vaccinate pigs against H5N1 itself. In any case, an attenuated virus may have mixed with a full strength virus to create the monster H5N1 we know today. This would explain how the mutation clock stopped. I don’t know if this is true, but the Chinese government is clearly hiding something.
Like, for example, the cause of death of millions of pigs in Southern China.
Monotreme. Did you get to see the sequence form the soldier and how unusual was it for that sequence not to be released either?
Tom DVM, accessions for sequences for A/Beijing/01/2003 were not provided in the paper. This is highly unusual. I just checked GenBank and can find no sequences.
From the paper:
The segments of the polymerase basic protein 2 gene (PB2) and HA gene were closest to those from Jilin Province (in northeastern China), with 99 percent and 97 percent identity, respectively. The segments of the neuraminidase gene (NA), nucleoprotein gene (NP), and M gene were closest to those from Hubei Province (in mideastern China), with 98 percent, 98 percent, and 99 percent identity, respectively, and the polymerase acidic protein gene (PA) segment was closest to that from Japan, with 99 percent identity.
These findings suggest that influenza A/Beijing/01/2003 may be a mixed virus.
I’m not sure what to make of the term mixed virus. Do they mean a reassortant? If so, how did genes from these different regions of China come together in the soldier?
Monotreme.
Were they not saying that from 1996–2003, there was no H5N1 in China…and if that was the case, where did the sequences they mention from mideastern China and northeastern China come from…if they didn’t have H5N1 which was the argument all along.
Why would the authors risk the ramifications of publishing and not release the sequence…and where is the WHO…okay, I know where the WHO is…cashing their friday cheques at the bank.
Even by the China that I have been watching for several years standards…this is weird.
Tom DVM – at 22:32
I don’t have the answere to your questions, but I agree something very weird has been going on in China with H5N1.
I can’t believe the World Health Organization would allow this to continue…given their failure (can’t find the words to describe it being from the Toronto region)on SARS.
How could they turn around and continue the same behavior unabated. I have observed regulatory agencies doing some blatantly unethical things but I have got to say, the World Health Organization takes the cake!!
Any news on the pig front?
check here
and then copy and paste the Chinese text
here or
here
translate from simplified Chinese to English and tell us when
you find something exciting.
My only thought is that if a country has millions of sick pigs, with a million dying, doesn’t that country owe an explanation to some world organization? What about the WHO? Don’t they have people in China to investigate what’s happening?
As an historian, I have no authority to speak on sequences and evolution of a virus, but my gut read is that something helped H5N1 evolve in China in 1996 (Bioweapon or attenuated virus inoculation of pigs or fowl I do not know but I suspect either.)
BUT, I believe something happened during the winter of 2004 in southern India to give us the Qinghai Lakes strain of April 2005 in China. I believe that India was using an attenuated virus to inoculate their poultry (remember the Indian chicks that tested positive for H5N1 antibodies about that time in a neighboring country to India? Remember the Indian poultry workers that tested positive for H5N1 antibodies? What was that, about 2003? They were doing something down there at any rate, and I think they helped it evolve by their actions.)
Tell me if you think I am wrong, but be nice in your refutations, as I am a little sensitive to scathing rebuttal. ;^)
Joe, you are in the wrong place for scathing rebuttals. : )
Joe. You are most definitely wrong in your hypothesis.
It turns out that the Chinese Government had captured wild waterfowl and attempted to domesticate them or whatever in the vicinity of Qinghai Lake. They then released the birds onto Q. lake and the rest is history.
There is clear evidence and a time line that rather than the Indian Government being involved at all…once again it was our friends, the Chinese Government, that concieved, created and executed a strategy that dooms us to a pandemic in the near future…
…and that’s the problem here…one last blessing of globalization…we will go down with them.
anonymous
Took your advice found this new piece from 9/18…Not sure if there is any significance here, but..
“[ Origin: People’s net - South China news ] Newspaper news Guangdong’s Zhanjiang raising livestock bureau recently disclosed that, since this year summer, south our country the partial areas have had “the pig high fever”. In order to prevent this epidemic disease spreads to this city, the Zhanjiang raising livestock department is positive should to, promptly takes the measure, strictly guards against. Stops to at present, the whole city has not discovered “the pig high fever”. Recently, Zhanjiang’s raising livestock bureau held the whole city significant animal epidemic disease to guard against controls the work emergency meeting, right “the pig high fever” the epidemic situation guarded against controls the work to carry on the deployment. Afterwards the whole city raising livestock department rapid motion, organizes in personnel’s to area of jurisdiction size pig field development rug type epidemic disease general survey, and strengthens with emphasis to small raises the pig household and disperses the keeper of livestock hog house the monitoring. Various live pigs slaughter house quarantine personnel 24 hours duties, the strict quarantine, takes strict precautions against dies of illness the pig to enter the arena, the prohibition is sick the pork to flow in the market. Gaoqiao and the Hai’an two frontiers stand the full display animal guard surveillance inspection function, strengthens to has “the pig high fever” the epidemic situation province transportation live pig and the live pig product vehicles surveillance inspection, implements 24 hours duties, strictly the good inspection pass, to the live pig which does not have the quarantine certificate strictly makes up examines, discovered dies of illness the pig, makes harmless processing immediately, effectively prevents “the pig high fever” spreading to. (Chen Zi minister Ruan Xiaoyuan) The pig high fever is more than a kind occurs in the summer take continues the high fever to have the infectious as the characteristic comprehensive epidemic disease. Symptom main performance for spirit dispirited, anorexia or waste certainly, 体温升高 (40 ℃ ~ 42 ℃), 结膜 潮红 the hyperemia, has a parched mouth, nose mirror dry, the excrement does hardly, urinates short is red, the skin blushes. Course of an illness general 7 ~ 15 days, if does not treat the strength, continues the high fever to be easy to create sickness pig liver, the lung damage, finally dehydrates dies.”
amt. Thanks for taking the time to do this.
Call of the Wild – at 01:36
Any news on the pig front?
The biggest news is no news. China is a member of the OIE (World Organisation for Animal Health). One would think that millions of pigs dying of a highly lethal, apparently highly infectious disease would be a reportable event. They have not reported this event to the OIE. Here are the OIE reports by country. If you scroll down to the China section, you’ll see that their last report was Foot and Mouth Disease in cows (August 24 2006). There are also reports of H5N1 in birds on August 3 and 17 2006. The only mention of pigs is Streptococus suis on September 9 2005.
The 3 requests for information from Promed have gone unanswered.
Why are Chinese authorities hiding information about what is killing millions of pigs? As I said before, there are no innocuous answers to this question.
The contact person given by the OIE for China is:
Dr Jia Youling, Director General, Veterinary Bureau, Ministry of Agriculture, 11 Nongzhanguan Nanli, 100026 Beijing
It would be helpful if someone were to contact him and ask him what’s been killing millions of pigs in Southern China.
It might also be helpful to ask the Director-General of the OIE, Dr. Bernard Vallat, if there are any consequences for an OIE member that does not report large-scale deaths of livestock from an undiagnosed disease.
Contact information for the OIE: World Organisation for Animal Health, 12 rue de Prony 75017 Paris (France), Tel : +33 (0)1 44 15 18 88 - Fax : +33 (0)1 42 67 09 87, Email : oie@oie.int
My only question is: Where are the sick farmers and related workers?
This is very likely influenza…whether it is H5N1 or H7N7 or H1 or H2 or some other H…we may never know.
…and you can bet your bottom dollar that every pig in the vicinity has been vaccinated with H5N1.
Joe Neubarth – at 09:40
I agree with Tom DVM that China is the likely source of bad vaccines. Relatively reputable Chinese companies are now officially selling killed virus to a number of countries. However, I believe that various shady vaccine companies in China have been selling vaccines within China for sometime. It is also possible that they have been selling their questionable product to neighboring countries. One wonders if there aren’t three means of disseminating H5N1: migratory birds, smuggled chickens and improperly prepared live vaccine.
…and you can also bet your bottom dollar that the WHO knows all about it…
…geez, now I’m talking like Moeb…kind of fun. /:0)
Monotreme – at 10:20 “ disseminating H5N1:… improperly prepared live vaccine. “
The dark side- are you implying that China might want to get rid of 25–40% of their population?
Tom DVM – at 09:58
I am not rebutting your rebuttal, but asking, “Do you totally discount the evidence of an H5N1 inoculation program in India from about 2002 - 3 onward? The H5N1 antibodies in the poultry workers and in the chicks sold for export would seem to indicate something was happening then.
Then we had the reports of illness (Meningitis) sweeping northward through India in early spring of 2005 as the wild birds migrated north for the summer. Seems to me that something happened in India prior to Qinghai.
But, that is just the theory of an historian, not a scientist. Why do you totally discount what was going on in India? Was it absolutely of no consequence?
amt – at 10:07
Thanks for getting that article. Here’s my interpretation of the contents:
DennisC – at 10:25
The dark side- are you implying that China might want to get rid of 25–40% of their population?
No, I’m not implying that. I’m implying greed and sloppy vaccine technology.
Whether the Chinese government would be upset if the non-Han citizens were to disappear from China is another question.
Monotreme – at 10:20
So you do not think that India was developing their own vaccine and bought from China??????
Hmmm…I just posted this a minute ago, but it didn’t come through. I apologize for the length of this one, but it seems to contain useful information, and someone with more experience (Tom DVM), might see something I’d miss.
Chinese food industry network (on September 14, 2006 13:00) In recent years, south our country the partial areas had the many kinds of causes of disease infection in the high temperature humidity season and continue send the pig which the infection caused “the high fever”, this sickness take gave off heat, the skin blushes and has the respiratory tract symptom and so on as a characteristic, provided the pig production to create the bigger economic loss. In order to prevent, controls this sickness, rested on “People’s Republic of China Animal Guard Law” and the relevant law laws and regulations, Ministry of Agriculture formulates has issued the pig “the high fever” the handling technology standard. Popular characteristic pathological change clinical symptom First, popular characteristic: This sickness assumes the regional characteristic popularly, the popular season obvious, mainly occurs to the high temperature, the humidity season, sends, the disease incidence rate critically ill high, the treatment result difference, the mortality rate is higher. The different date age, the different variety pig may occur; Mainly raises the management and the hygienic condition worse disperses the keeper of livestock and center, the small pig farm sends; The immunity does not arrive, the immunity procedure and uses the medicine unreasonable pig field especially to be obvious. Second, clinical main symptom: The pig group suddenly arises, 体温升高 to 40 ℃ above, the spirit sinks strongly fragrant, picks the food quantity to drop or the appetite waste certainly, has difficulty in breathing, happy bends down lies, contracts the pig skin to blush, the ear department cyanosis, bodily many place skins and so on hypogastric and four limbs terminal assume the purplish red color spot massive. Arises the pig group mortality rate high, generally is 10% - 30%, high may reach above 50%, the young pig is more obvious. The partial sows are being pregnant the later period to appear the miscarriage, produces the still birth, the weak young and the mummy. Third, main pathological change: Dies of illness the pig to split examines the pathological change to assume the multiplicity. In the chest cavity, the abdominal cavity has the massive yellow to accumulate the fluid and the textile fiber 渗出物, presents the sending size textile fiber natural disposition pleurisy and the peritonitis. The lung dropsy, assumes the motley shape to the brown marble type pathological change; Between the lung the nature increases the width, between the nature pneumonia pathological change is obvious. The lymph node, specially the inguen lymph node and the lung hilus lymph node obvious are tumescent. The part dies of illness the pig kidney tumescently, assumes brown or the earth yellow, the quality of material is crisper, has the extravasated blood phenomenon; The spleen tumescent, the nature is crisp; The individual pig has the digestive tract pathological change. Epidemic disease diagnosis According to the popular characteristic, the clinical symptom and the pathological change which this gets sick carry on the preliminary diagnosis. When necessity, the gathering sickness material delivers the laboratory to carry on cause of disease separation appraisal and so on the virus, bacterium, parasite, definite cause of disease. When initially diagnoses for the foot-and-mouth disease and so on the significant animal epidemic situation, should carry on the diagnosis according to the corresponding stipulation or deliver examines. Epidemic situation report First, any unit and individual discovery sickness pig, should immediately to the local animal guard cognizant agency report. After second, all levels of animals guard cognizant agency receives the suspicious epidemic situation report, must send out the veterinarian personnel to rush to immediately the scene carries on the clinical diagnosis, when the necessity may ask the provincial level animal guard cognizant agency to send the person to assist to diagnose. After third, the animal guard cognizant agency receives the epidemic situation report, should according to “Animal Epidemic situation Report Policing method” and the related stipulation reports. If initially determined for the foot-and-mouth disease and so on the significant animal epidemic situation, should report the stipulation report according to the corresponding significant animal epidemic disease. Epidemic situation handling First, diagnoses for significant animal epidemic situation handling when diagnoses for the foot-and-mouth disease, the pig acute communicable disease and so on the significant animal epidemic situation, should “Arise suddenly Significant Animal Epidemic situation Emergency Predetermined plan according to Country” as well as the significant animal epidemic situation handling technology standard request, adopts the blockade, throws oneself kills with harmless measure and so on processing, disinfection, urgent immunity, rapidly suppresses the epidemic situation, the cultivation household should and the positive coordination. Second, to pig “high fever” epidemic situation handling 1. The cultivation household must adopt measure: Discovers the epidemic situation promptly to the local animal guard cognizant agency report; Separately isolates sickness pig and with the group pig immediately, the limit migration; Completes 圈舍 and the environmental sanitation, and carries on the comprehensive disinfection; Takes the suitable measure, carries on to the pig prevents heatstroke; Strengthens the raising management, sharpens pig’s disease-resistant ability. 2. The animal guard cognizant agency must adopt measure: The prompt organization experts, the analysis arise the reason; The sampling delivers the correlation laboratory to carry on the examination; The formulation preventing and controlling technology plan, and the organization implements; Instruction disciple of a master veterinarian, development treatment work; The surveillance instructs to die of illness the pig, the excrement, 垫料 and the feed which pollutes and so on is carried on harmless processing; Strengthens quarantine supervising and managing, strictly prohibits dying of illness the pig to flow out the epidemic disease area; Carries on pig sickness preventing and controlling knowledge training, and propagandizes to the general populations, the prohibition slaughters edible, dies of illness the pig. 3. The disciple of a master veterinarian must adopt measure: According to this standard in treatment principle, carries on the treatment and preventive gives the medicine; Discovers the significant animal epidemic situation, promptly to local animal guard cognizant agency report. Anticipatory control First, strengthens the raising management to raise the pig production to be supposed to achieve all enters entire; From numerous is self-supportive, plants the pig, the fattening pig must separate raising, relative isolation. In the high temperature season, completes the hog house to ventilate and to prevent heatstroke, provides the sufficient clean potable water, the maintenance hog house is dry. Maintains the reasonable raising density, reduces the pig group extension group and mixes the group number of times, reduces should stir up the factor. Does not use the mildew to change with the inferior feed, guarantees the sufficient nutrition, the enhancement pig group disease-resistant ability. Positively advances standardized, the standardized raising way, enhances raises the pig production level. Second, the environment disinfection prompt elimination hog house excrement and the excreta, the maintenance environment is clean. Regularly to the pig field environment, 圈舍 carries on the disinfection, reduces the pathogenic microorganism which pollutes with the elimination pig field in, reduces or ceases the pig group the extraneous source to continue sends the infection. In the high temperature season, should increase the disinfection number of times; Arises the hog house to have to disinfect every day 1 - 2. Third, the immunity prevention acts according to local the epidemic situation situation, strengthens to the foot-and-mouth disease, the pig acute communicable disease, the pig reproduction and the breath synthesis drafts, the pig false rabies, the pig pneumonic plague, the pig 丹毒, backwoods coli sickness, the young pig 副伤寒 and so on the immunity vaccination which gets sick, the local animal guard cognizant agency should instruct the cultivation household to use the science the immunity procedure, active control these epidemic disease occurrences. Fourth, the treatment removes the significant animal epidemic situation or diagnoses after some kind of epidemic disease, arises the pig to have the popular characteristic, the pathological change and the clinical symptom which in this standard arranges in order, in isolation raising, in the strict disinfection situation, may according to the below principle, take the remedial measure as soon as possible. 1. By thin fungus category infection primarily, should through the medicine sensitive experiment, choose the sensitive anti- fungus category medicine to carry on the treatment. 2. By viral infection primarily, selects the anti- fungus category medicine to carry on the assistance treatment, controls the bacterium to continue sends the infection. 3. While adopts the above pointed method of treatment, to arises the pig to still need separately uses allays a fever the analgesia, the supplement electrolyte and the many kinds of vitamins and so on the just right for the illness remedial measure. To with group pig, also must take the corresponding preventive remedial measure. Fifth, the quarantine and the inspector general control section strictly carry on the habitat quarantine and circulates the link the quarantine surveillance, the prohibition purchases and sells arises the pig and its the product. When the introduction plants the pig and the young pig, must choose has not ever had the epidemic situation place introduction, and carries on the quarantine according to the stipulation, prevents because to direct the pig to spread to the epidemic disease. The introduction pig should isolate observes 45 day, after guarantees the health only then to mix group raising. Article edition: Xiaowanzi article origin: [ Submits a piece of writing for publication ] [ to enter forum ] [ to recommend [ major and medium to friend ] is small ] [ closure window ] Information search essential character: Object: High-level search
Joe Neubarth – at 10:31
So you do not think that India was developing their own vaccine and bought from China??????
I think that is a possibility, yes. India and some other countries are developing their own vaccines, now. However, it occurs to me that H5N1 has been in China’s neighboring countries for longer than has been acknowledged. It is possible that poultry farmers from some of these countries have been surreptiously buying vaccines from shady companies for some time.
Joe. I hadn’t heard of the Indian situation before you mentioned it…but Q. lake was caused by the release of domesticated wild waterfowl onto Q. lake that caused the problem at Q. lake…
…whether the Indian situation is playing out in another dimension…I would’t know.
We have one country of the world and their regulatory accomplice to thank for this situation…China.
Here’s an article from the 13th advising cooks how to tell if they are buying contaminated meat. I figure the tissue descriptions may be useful. If this is a new disease, then its just as scary as the flu if you ask me. (?)
The Wenzhou net news near future, my city except Dongtou, outside Wen Cheng’s 9 counties (city, area) has reported “the high fever” the epidemic situation. Statistics have indicated, altogether has 18,000 live pigs to arise, died more than 7,100 heads, captures and kills more than 6,000 heads. For a while, how selected and purchased the qualified pork and the meat product has become very many housewife issue of concern, interviewed the staff for this newspaper reporter which the industry and commerce, slaughtered the office, they indicated, strictly checked besides the law enforcement department, also had basically to learn some as the consumer to distinguish the meat product the method. The law enforcement department enlarges supervising and managing Yueching, Yongjia, Pingyang are this pig “the high fever” one of more serious local. Yueching Ms. Qi the family three meals a day were do not have the meat not not happy, but recently bought time the meat she to the agricultural market fair specially paid attention. “In the recent television, the newspaper often reported in some personal slaughter houses is sick the dead pork, I all did not dare to buy the meat.” Even if buys is the lid blue has, the green India’s pork, Ms. Qi prepares food when also always specially the meat multi- fever several minutes, “the meat feeling in the mouth almost but actually does not have any, most importantly safety and health.” In view of the resident to the market in pork quality worrying, the Yueching bureau of industry and commerce staff tells reporter, from September 12, “Yueching City Industry and commerce Administration System Significant Animal Epidemic situation Management Emergency Predetermined plan” the plan already starts. Now, the industry and commerce department requests various units to adopt the synthesis to guard against controls the measure, strengthens the market distribution domain animal epidemic situation the monitor, the inspection, investigates rigorously takes strict precautions against strictly controls the live pig “the high fever” the epidemic situation, strictly stops up dies of illness the pork to flow in the market. “We already to the whole city fresh pork management household, the live pig cultivation household carried on the correlation law, the laws and regulations propaganda educate and explain the work, comprehensively forced out the pig ‘ the high fever ‘.” The residential naked eye may distinguish the fit and unfit quality “When purchase pork, grasps two is very important.” The cup sea 经贸局 meat managed Director Zhuang Kejin tells reporter, accurately distinguishes the pork whether has the epidemic disease situation, must through a series of examinations tool, the light be distinguishes with difficulty depending on the naked eye. But the resident when selects and purchases the pork actually has two main points to be allowed to rest on. First must think India. On the pork blue green two great seals, may say is feels relieved the pork “the ID card”. 蓝印 represents the pork quarantine qualified, the green India representative pork examination is qualified. Has these two great seals feels relieved the meat in the body pork, the resident may feel relieved the purchase, feels relieved edible. Next, if cannot find blue, the green great seal for a while, the resident on according to the mortal body distinguishes whether was feels relieved the meat. The fixed-point live pig slaughters the factory to use is the mechanization slaughters, the meat, the spareribs which produces should be smooth is smooth, fresh favor. But the personal slaughter house mostly is the manual operation, therefore the meat surface comparison is uneven. In addition, the resident most feared has bought three kind of inferior pork, including pour water the pork, the thin carnosine remain exceed the allowed figure, die of illness the pork and so on, also has the means simply to distinguish with the naked eye. 1st, if the discovery pork muscle color is paler, the new section wet, some also presents many floccosoids, the personal plum back and rib meat, as soon as traces the quite slippery hand with the hand, the finger presses also can have the water to seep out, then in the meat should be pours into many water, should better not have to purchase. 2nd, distinction pork whether does include the thin carnosine, the most straightforward procedure is looked whether this pork does have the fatty oil, if this pork does not have the fatty oil, in hypodermic is the lean meat, then exists includes the thin carnosine the possibility, surely do not buy. At the same time, when purchase certainly must look clearly, whether this pork does have the hygienic quarantine certificate. 3rd, dies of illness in the pork to be able to have 瘀血, assumes the purple red. If the resident discovered the fat ash is red, muscle dark red, and fills the black in a bigger blood vessel the hemoglutination, after shuts off may squeeze out the black the thrombus, has the corrupt smell. Conforms to the above characteristic pork certainly not to have to buy, because these are dies of illness the pork characteristic.’ (Reporter summer imperial concubine Report Ye Aolei) Selects and purchases the meat product five main points Meats food, such as the meat pine and the ham and so on, were the very many families few delicacies delicacies, but also was easier to appear the health problem food. Therefore following 5 suggestions, the resident 切切 wants to record the jail. 1st, first must choose has “QS” the symbol product, its secondary attention looked product symbol sign note is whether standard. Arrives some prestige quite good big markets, the big supermarket purchase as far as possible; Selects and purchases the well-known brand as far as possible the product, these products production enterprise scales big, the quality control is strict, the product quality comparatively has the safeguard. 2nd, when selects and purchases the meat loose product, the attention looks at the product the burden sheet, if in the burden sheet has listed the starch, then the product is the meat meal pine, the meat meal pine’s protein and so on the nutrition ingredient relativistic mass good meat pine must be few. When 3rd, selects and purchases the ham intestines, pays attention to product rank which on the label indicated clearly, rank higher product, contains the meat the proportion to be higher, the protein content also correspondingly enhances; Moreover, traces the elasticity well, the meat proportion is also high. When 4th, selects and purchases the meat pine and the ham intestines class cooked meat product, the best choice in the near future will produce product. A meat product purchase quantity not suitable excessively are many. Kaifeng’s meat product has certainly had to seal, should better refrigerate the preservation in the refrigerator, as soon as possible edible. 5th, the attention observation product outside wrapping, do not have to purchase on the ham intestines, the sack which the sausage casing damages has the slit the meat pine. Finally reminds again: Because has increased the market inspection dynamics, some illegally slaughter the pork which in the workshop produces only to be able the low price to sell to the small traders and peddlers. Therefore the street corner stall hawks the meat product should better not have to purchase.
Whoops, looks like I italized the ‘tissue examination’ part instead of bolding it. Back to the sandbox for me! Here it is again, so that it doesn’t hurt anybody’s eys. --- In addition, the resident most feared has bought three kind of inferior pork, including pour water the pork, the thin carnosine remain exceed the allowed figure, die of illness the pork and so on, also has the means simply to distinguish with the naked eye. 1st, if the discovery pork muscle color is paler, the new section wet, some also presents many floccosoids, the personal plum back and rib meat, as soon as traces the quite slippery hand with the hand, the finger presses also can have the water to seep out, then in the meat should be pours into many water, should better not have to purchase. 2nd, distinction pork whether does include the thin carnosine, the most straightforward procedure is looked whether this pork does have the fatty oil, if this pork does not have the fatty oil, in hypodermic is the lean meat, then exists includes the thin carnosine the possibility, surely do not buy. At the same time, when purchase certainly must look clearly, whether this pork does have the hygienic quarantine certificate. 3rd, dies of illness in the pork to be able to have 瘀血, assumes the purple red. If the resident discovered the fat ash is red, muscle dark red, and fills the black in a bigger blood vessel the hemoglutination, after shuts off may squeeze out the black the thrombus, has the corrupt smell. Conforms to the above characteristic pork certainly not to have to buy, because these are dies of illness the pork characteristic.
“This is very likely influenza…whether it is H5N1 or H7N7 or H1 or H2 or some other H…we may never know. “
doesn’t make sense to me. Look at the symptoms.
Yes, back to the sandbox…I will go…for future posts!
Joe, H5N1 evolves basically in Southern China. The scientists say this and the sequences confirm it. It is also documented how the Qinghai-strain went north-west from South-East China - there were simailar sequences. I remember, I read this somewhere, not 100% sure about the source, though.
amt, I haven’t read this all yet. Is there something about humans getting sick from the meat ? Maybe someone can figure out a Chinese keyword for this to put it into google together with phf
Tom DVM – at 10:37
Go to Recombinomics commentaries from the time period just prior to Qinghai. There was mention of the Meningitis spreading from south to north in India as the birds were migrating north to Qinghai.
Post Qinghai, Recombinomics was paying attention to reports of Meningitis like outbreaks in Russian Siberia. They were on to something, and seemed to know that something was moving northward from India in the days leading up to Qinghai.
Now, it could just be that birds infected in China the year before were carrying that infection northward (AGAIN) in their annual migration. I guess we will never know until all sequences are available to people like Monotreme, Niman and you…..
And we know that those sequences will probably never be made available as they might tell us the truth about H5N1 and assisted evolution.
So far no mentions of human illness due to “high pig fever”. I will post if I see anything. (I sure wish I hadn’t dropped out of that Chinese class, just a little language knowledge would help!)
Can’t find anything about human illness. It does seems like the Chinese authorities are concerned.
I did find the following on “high cow fever”, which is probably unrelated. (However, who knows perhaps we are dealing with a new disease that has recently skipped species between cows and pigs??? Note: pure unadultrated speculation on the part of a layperson.)
Babel Fish Translation
In English: Enters the summer popularly, the cow hot is the cow extremely easy popular one kind acute, the thermal property, the contact infectious disease, mainly occurs to the mature ox and the cow, the ox easy perception stronger, nursing cow symptom more serious, the calf cow disease incidence rate is lower. Occurs popular hot occurs with the popular cow in the summer fall high temperature season, specially in July ~9 month, like weather sultry, multi- rain or diurnal temperature difference bigger, is easier to occur popularly. This gets sick often sends the high fever, the breath and the alimentary organs has the serious 卡他 inflammation. This sickness once occurs in Niu Qunzhong, the oncoming force 凶猛, the popular speed is quick. Although the trouble cow generally assumes the benignity, about 3 days then restore normally (therefore get sick call 三日热, temporary hot), when heavy sickness trouble Niu Ru treats, is extremely easy to have the illness complication. If the service with the cow easy concurrent paralysis sickness, to lose the service to use the performance; The nursing cow easy concurrently to lack the breast sickness, secretes the young quantity to drop; Calf cow easy concurrent dysentery and so on. Therefore, the cow popular is hot should cause the general cultivations household enough to take. The clinical symptom suddenly arises, the spirit extreme is weary, stands erect by the wool, does not eat, the counter- hay stops. The nursing cow arises, secretes the young quantity suddenly to drop, contracts the cow body temperature suddenly to elevate to 40 ℃ ~42 ℃, eyelid swelling, 眼结膜 the hyperemia 潮红, the fear light bursts into tears. The nose mirror dry heat, the nose flows the clear tears, the mouth class clear saliva, often becomes the striation. Is sick the initial period excrement to be slightly soft, the surface often has the mucus, later will appear the diarrhea, some trouble cow constipation and the diarrhea will appear in turn. Gives off heat the time urine short and is red, the skin warm is not uniform, has the muscle to tremble, even has the muscle convulsion. The four limbs muscle ache or is stiff, joint swelling, happy lies, is not willing to take a walk, forcefully drives away then the gait limps, has the varying degree 跛行 and the paralysis, the serious case of illness even lies. The course of an illness generally is about 3 days, contracts the trouble cow which this gets sick to be allowed to obtain the immunity. The preventing and controlling cow popular was hot at present still the not effective vaccine and the special effect treatment medicine, usually should strengthen the raising management and the prevention. The method is feeds easy to digest also the nutrition rich fodder, strengthens cow’s physique. Frequently maintains the cowshed cleanly to be dry, to ventilate coolly. The service cannot cause the service with the cow excessively, service when or herds the perspiration with after, does not let its storm drink the cold water. To the heavy sickness trouble cow specially is the cow, should while strengthen which nurses, adopts the corresponding comprehensive therapy: The intramuscular injection compound prescription aminopyrine, medicine and so on An Naijin, allays a fever brings down a fever. The trouble cow does not draw back which to the high fever gives the strong heart disintoxicating, calmly swims the injection glucose physiological saline 1,500 milliliter ~2000 milliliter, An Neila 10 milliliter ~20 milliliter, coordinates to spread with the cold water, to take a bath, the sausage; The intramuscular injection antibiotic (is blue, chain mildew element) and the sulfonamides preparation, guards against continues sends the infection. To has difficulty in breathing the cow which or the partner has the pulmonary edema, the coordinate vein drop note fluorine Douglas fir 50 milliliter ~150 milliliter, adds the glucose physiological saline 500 milliliter ~1000 milliliter. To 跛行 and the paralysis trouble cow may the intravenous injection sodium salicylate or the hydrogenation may medicine and so on pine, reduces the ache, alleviates the symptom. The Chinese native medicine treats suitably selects the clear lung, evenly breathes heavily, the phlegm reduction, allays a fever, the bowel movement side medicinal preparation carries on dialectically executes governs. Origin: Chinese raising livestock newspaper
http://www.hellopet.com.cn/pethospital/changjianquanbing.htm
Joe Thanks.
I am glad to see this thread on the pigs re-addressed. I personally feel this is the scariest thing happening on the newsfront right now (or NOT happening on the newsfront is more like it!).
I am glad several knowledgeable people here are keeping an “eye” on it - let’s not let it drop! Thanks
When we talk about viral evolution, I cannot help but wonder if the use of vaccines themselves are assiting the process by adding evolutionary pressure. If an effective vaccine is developed against a specific influenza strain, then surely natural selection processess will favour any mutations that are sufficiently different to the vaccine strain so that there is no or little cross immunity (and therefore are capable of being successful), and these new substrains will then thrive in a host organism. The more widely vaccinations are used in a species (ie fewer available susceptible hosts to the parental strain), the greater the evolutionary pressure for the virus to change into something different that can successfully replicate in the available hosts so that it can survive OR the virus finds another host that is still susceptible.
Just a thought - views welcome.
flumonitor – at 17:48
This is definitely something to ponder.
High Cow Fever in China. Could it be related to what hit the Ukraine so many months ago after Bird Flu arrived? http://en.for-ua.com/news/2005/11/02/101015.html#comments
Five different strains in 12/05, how many are out there now? Each of them mutating thousands of times to hit the jackpot for the virus and we are the loosers. Probably one of them is working on the pigs as we speak. Not good. The fact that the news dried up from China makes more more nervous. An Uncle of mine that visited there last year said that once you get out of the city, the living conditions are terrible. Oxen plowing fields, little modern equipment. By this point, they have to have isolated the virus from the pigs. In this case, I think no news is bad news.
MOA: fight against animal epidemics pressing http://tinyurl.com/h7sr8
www.chinaview.cn 2006–09–21 20:08:06
BEIJING, Sept. 21 (Xinhua) — The prevention of and fight against animal epidemic diseases will continue to be a pressing task in the fall, China’s Minister of Agriculture (MOA) Du Qinglin has warned.
Du said local governments must maintain a high alert against possible epidemics such as bird flu, pig cholera and rabies.
In some countries and regions, the foot-and-mouth disease had been “rather serious,” Du said.
Ruth – at 07:45 “I think no news is bad news.”
I think we need to just take a breath, here. There seems to have been a lot of “the sky is falling” on the wiki lately. The situation with pigs in China is concerning, but until we get more information, we should remain calm and focused.
Ruth – at 07:45 “I think no news is bad news.”
I completely agree with you, the situation is disturbing and frustrating.
As *sunny – at 14:53* said, “I am glad several knowledgeable people here are keeping an “eye” on it - let’s not let it drop! Thanks”
I send much ‘thanks’ to you guys, too! You *are* the best!
one thing, that you learn here is, that no news is just … no news.
Nigtowl and Snowhound1,
Thanks for the links.
Ruth – at 07:45
In this case, I think no news is bad news.
I agree.
Elder Berry,
I see no signs of panic on this thread. Just calm consideration of the facts.
anonymous,
Witholding of information is always bad news. We know millions of pigs are dying in Southern China. This is bad news no matter how you slice it. We don’t know that it’s H5N1, it could be a another disease. But we do know the Chinese government had not reported the cause to the OIE. This is bad news, not neutral news.
Elder Berry – at 09:23 Ruth – at 07:45 “I think no news is bad news.”
I think we need to just take a breath, here. There seems to have been a lot of “the sky is falling” on the wiki lately. The situation with pigs in China is concerning, but until we get more information, we should remain calm and focused.
Elder Berry, Some of us just need to vent our frustrations and mostly our fears. Most of us here do not have the support of our friends, family etc., so this is where we unite and vent. We appreciate your point of view, no need to be redundant.
Ruth, I do think “No News is Bad News” as do many of the great minds that gather here :o)
Tom DVM, about a week ago you asked question about trans-shipments of honey from China etc. I don’t want to hijack this thread with off-topic info…but I did find the evidence on this. I will try to keep this succinct.
This article gives a report about the matter. Specifically: “contaminated honey was detected during an investigation into a widespread scheme to evade payment of U.S. anti-dumping duties on bulk imports of Chinese honey. The honey allegedly had been transshipped illegally through third-party countries on its way from China to the United States…To date, the investigation has resulted in the detention of more than 50 containers of bulk Chinese honey at U.S. ports. In an effort to evade U.S. anti-dumping duties, this honey had allegedly been illegally transshipped through third-party countries on its way from China to America…Customs agents found that U.S.-bound Chinese bulk honey was allegedly being transshipped through Australia, Mexico, Malaysia, Thailand, Vietnam, and other nations to evade U.S. anti-dumping duties.”
The issue of the chloramphenicol contamination of the honey was found accidently as a result of the investigation. A review article of the situation is in the Sept 2006 issue of the journal Bee Culture (p. 20). The FDA can now detect the contaminant at one part per billion. The Chinese have found a way a drive off all contaminants (dilute the honey with water, heat to high temp, pass through ultra-fine filter, & evaporate to syrup consistency). This is called ultrafiltered (UF) honey but is not really honey anymore, according to experts. One test found 9 out of 69 samples from U.S. groceries were UF honey. More info about UF honey and the related issues is here.
On a related note, there was report about a week ago in one of the news threads, about people in China getting sick from contaminated pork. The meat contained too much of a drug called clenbuterol. A search at google shows this drug promotes growth of animal muscle tissue, and is banned from food production in the U.S. It is also used by asthmatics and body-builders, more info available at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clenbuterol
The point of all this being, it appears China will do whatever it can to maintain market share of its food products, or to minimize its losses when problems arise. Buyer beware.
Monotreme – at 10:28 & NoFluingAround – at 11:00
From what I have heard, the Chinese themselves do not know what is causing the illness. If you speculate and assume, you can drive yourself crazy with worry. In teh absence of news, we can assume anything i.e. it is H5N1, H7N7, the Chinese are working to vaccinate their own people and we won’t get any…
This is what I am driving at.
Elder Berry – at 12:03
With all due respect, did you not just read beehivers’ post at 11:18? The Chinese may say that they do not know what is causing the illness but I certainly don’t believe them. I’d really like to know what trustworthy person or group it is that you listening to?
40–45 years ago, there was a syndicated columnist named Sidney Harris who wrote a recurring column on “Antics with Semantics.” A typical example was:
My child is “spirited;” yours is “hyperactive”; his is “a holy terror.”
I see this discussion in the same light:
I am “concerned;” you are “worried;” he is “hysterical.”
It is just antics with semantics.
bird-dog – at 12:47
Yes, I read beehiver’s post. It is indeed disturbing and points to very bad processing practices by Chinese companies.
Listen, I am not going to stand up and defend the Chinese, no way. I am also not going to say that the illness in the pigs is definitely not a precursor to a pandemic. Who knows? It very well could be. It also could be that the Chinese just don’t know. Tom DVM has talked on more than one occasion about their husbandry practices. I don’t think we should be that surprised that they are cranking out new and odd viruses that even they have trouble nailing down.
This could be something, this could be nothing. All I am saying is let’s wait and see, because short of parachuting into China and poking around for ourselves, that’s all we can do. And I for one never did like parachuting. : )
:)
: )
Thread is long, so we’ll start Part 7 here
Last relevant posts copied to new thread
Elder Berry. Excellent assessment of the situation.
Beehiver. Thanks!!