Last post from the previous thread:
Anon_451 – at 13:56
AVanarts – at 11:07 DW saw it on CNN. No links available. Sounded off the wall to me too. That was the reason I posted it here instead of news as that would be a significant shift in policy. Have no reason to doubt DW on this as she is well aware of the implications. We have draft eligible Grand Children and do watch what is going on.
Due to heavy flooding in Houston this morning, I did not take my usual mode of transportation to work. Hopefully, I will have something tomorrow. Will let you know.
From Daily Kos, a story about the George W. Bush family buying an enormous farm in Paraguay.
scaredy cat-
Just came over here to repost that same story, that I posted 2 hours ago on the PPF thread:
Does anyone have any other info to verify this? I think that if you take this into account with all of the military action, mentioned above, my ppf is going waaay past 10!
If you go by the paper scandle sheets the Bush marriage is troubled. Not my business, but he might also be arranging someplace to skedaddle, or it might just be an investment. If the democrats sweep in, there might be a lot of trouble for the man.
I read somewhere that residents of Paraguay can’t be convicted of international war crimes. Interesting, isn’t it?
Also at a time when water becomes increasingly important, Paraguay has a large aquafer. Water, water everywhere and not a drop to drink.
Getting into politics here. Let’s stick with bird flu.
This is the link for my comment at 17:32
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraguay
Scroll down to the paragaph labeled: US Military Controversy
But there is nothing verifiable.
Please stop the Bush bashing rumour mongering. This thread is for rumours, but please, this sooo bogus. All that has been reported on this story is politically motivated. Please move on to rumours with a bit more relevance;-) Thanks.
Milo: I agree, except if we do find ourselves in the midst of a pandemic it would be most unsettling to think our president might bail on us. Of course isn’t that what happened in New Orleans? I think the message is the one voiced over and over here…we each need to be able to take care of ourselves.
I’ll shut up now…
Nova, Sorry, I was thinking more of the war crimes tribunal stuff. That’s not relevant here. The rumor that Bush might have bought a place in Paraguay is curious, and might be interesting if the story gets fleshed out, but that’s that. If Bush or any other of our leaders (senators, governors, Dem or Repub, whatever) want to skip out in the the event of a pandemic, they probably have plenty of sheltered places to do it right here as well.
But the war crimes stuff is going to piss people off. (I’m a democrat, so I’m not one of them, but still.)
Didn’t bother me - I don’t claim either party ;)
Okieman:
Didn’t mean to venture into politics- i voted for him- my comments were directed to the fact that it seemed very suspicious, in light of all the military action, and could it mean that tptb were bugging out, or at least planning to? That’s all that was meant on my part!
Huge −98,482 acre huge.
Bush is an oil tycoon, that’s where he made his money.
Bolivia just north of Paraguay receintly discovered huge natural gas fields.
Okieman - All that has been reported on this story is politically motivated.
That may or may not be true, but either which way, it doesn’t alter the veracity of the story and should not deter us from examining the facts (as best they can be determined).
Ok, you have no facts - you have an news source (do you know anything about the news source? quoting a person - do you know anything about the person?) do you have any idea how much is posted on the internet that is false? and the next thing people are speculating on the Bush’s troubled marriage??? running away from war crimes???? gas fields??? water sources??? all from one unconfirmed and mostly likely completely untrue story - and this is a board about bird flu.
So much for the any credibiliy the CDC may have given this board and the people on it. Take this discussion to another board. If we expect people to take fluwiki and the discussion here seriously and use this as a resource, we have to avoid this absurd kind of rant. The issues on this board are too important and guests on this board deserve better.
‘’ OKbirdwatcher – at 17:57
Didn’t bother me - I don’t claim either party ;) ‘’
Yea, I don’t either, anymore.
observer – at 19:04
Please don’t take this down an avenue that was never intended. While there may be some looking at this from a political angle, I for one am looking at it from the angle that we better watch what tptb are DOING not saying. I am very concerned, with all that is going on, that this may be the only advance knowledge that something is up. I have asked for help in finding a more reliable source, but until that time it is still an important discussion!
(ps that’s why this is the rumors page…this isn’t posted on the news of the day thread.)
preppiechick – at 19:18
Ditto
No comment except this is the rumor thread and we are watching for clues.
OK, folks, that’s 20 posts without one mention of avian influenza-related material. No President from Clinton to Bush is going to bail. They take the job to steer the country to their vision of what America should be whether we agree with their vision or not. This is really irrelevant to avian influenza and is risking losing a good share of the audience. No guns (as per the Pandemic Violence thread) and no politics are how the mods want to run things and I think we should keep with that council.
And now…[++BACK TO BIRD FLU-RELATED RUMORS==] please. Thank you for your understanding and forebearance.
preppiechick – at 19:14
I appreciate that you make an inquiry and I read the article but it seemed pretty vague. Unfortunately, much is put into print that has little to do with reality or fact and multiple confirmations are required to determine the truth. What I objected to was how the discussion took off in all directions with no confirmation or seeming interest in whether it was factual. You will see the Congress head for the hills (not Capitol Hill) long before the White House. The White House is pretty insulated from the public in an emergency. That applies to both parties in case anyone wonders. I will make an effort to try to track down if there is anything to this story but my guess is there is not.
Rats! That’s BACK TO BIRD FLU-RELATED RUMORS!!!
What, you don’t want to discuss John Kerry’s war crimes?
Only if they were related to poultry or other animals suffering from breathing problems…
It is sad, isn’t it?
Reading this particular thread…. is the highlight of my day….
LOL…. (sorry, that is LOL with feathers….)
Please, whoever was posting regarding unusual plane flyovers, etc. do NOT stop reporting. I’m with the group here that says “believe what they do, not what they say”. If there is a BF outbreak or an American Hiroshima in the air, it affects us all the same. Any outsiders who drop in to visit our site please don’t let this thread turn you off. This is a thread created for us to explore rumors…and like in any other group of people, some of us do wear tin hats. I think the overall theme of this entire site is survival. And, another common theme seems to be a concern whether the government will level with us in time for us to get ready (for whatever).
Ooops. Did I say I would shut up? Sorry. Mea culpa…
ditto to Nova
Just a quick update on the rumor I posted above. My friend has not ridden in to work the last two days due to mucho rain and fog.
Hopefully, I will see her tomorrow and then can confirm/deny the TMC plans.
I am posting this here as this is MY OPINION ONLY:
I would like everyone who knows the people, knows the area and has any other knowledge on this to jump in and smack me around and tell me I am wrong.:
I have been watching the numbers of cases of Dengue and Chikungunya in India grow over the past 80 days with increasing concern. HCW’s ill, hospitals getting overloaded and numbers now in the millions.:
The reason for my concern is that while some cases are clearly dengue, others test negative and they do not know what it is. Further they are not testing for H5N1 or any other type of flu:
Many governments have already indicated that this year will see a larger then normal flu season, and the cases in Indonesian, while not growing very fast, continue to pop up:
When I was running my numbers to find the lowest RO that would insure a World wide Pandemic, I found that a daily RO of 0.9275 would be sufficient to accomplish this task (total number of individuals infected by one person would be 2.7825). By Day 80 the number would only be 1,865,501.74, and I find the numbers of dengue/ Chikungunya cases consistent with that number.:
In short, IN MY VERY HUMBLE OPINION, a low path slow burning version may already be in process (just like 1918):
The WHO needs to get teams on the ground in India, and Nepal to rule this out and insure that the world is aware of what is happening and that the time they though they had to prepare is over:
Anon 451. Think of it like a football game with the other pathogens running ‘biological interference’…if this keeps up we won’t be able to see the forest or the trees.
I know that dengue fever mutated I think in India last year to gain the ability to be transmitted by a new strain of mosquito…I also think I remember them saying it was more virulent as well.
I think, in the background scatter, we should keep in mind that there are bacteria and viruses and fungi and parasites etc. mutating and changing and have been simultaneously for a time in distinct geographical locations around the world…and this fact has an impact on predicting where H5N1 is going and how fast it will get there…in my opinion.
Anon_451 – at 12:36
I don’t understand your pandemic numbers at an R0 of <1 but: I agree with you that WHO and others need “boots on the ground” in India and Nepal. Now as I understand it (big gap here) WHO has to be “invited in”. At the least, India and Nepal should be sending samples to WHO, CDC or some area labs for testing.
I personally think (humble opinion with no proof at all) that the “pot has been simmering” in Nepal and India for some time with all the pig and other animal deaths and we just are not getting the information from the remote areas. The cases in Nepal with bleeding from mouths sounds too much like Turkey. It is also too coincidental that the current cases at New Deli are right about where the bird flu case in chickens where back in Feb. But I write it off as my paranoia and hope I am wrong.
Tom DVM at 12:47-Exactly, a viral storm is in progress, and H5N1 isn’t the only thundercloud. But H5N1 could be the Cat 5 tornado buried in the advancing wall cloud.
Anon_451 – at 12:36
I have been wondering about this as well, and I suspect many others are too, but are afraid to say anything because there’s always someone to jump down their throat for speculating. I am tired of that. People, don’t be afraid to speak up, speak your mind. Anon_451, I applaud you for speaking your mind.
The bleeding scares the hell outa me too, but didn’t someone post a while back that the mutated dengue (or was it chik?) had a hemmorhagic form?
Anon_451 and others today: In the India II thread I unknowingly duplicated your thought. Why can’t the WHO donate some PCR kits and have local doctors test even a sample of the suspicious cases? There are surely people in India who can do that, and there are enough NAMRU, WHO, CDC labs around that we could get a reading on what might be viral background noise or might be something worse. It is hard to understand why nobody is checking on this, if they are not.
dengue does. from what I understand , it called hemmorhagic degune fever. for some reason, it reminds me of ebolia.
INFOMASS. I wouldn’t know for sure but it seems that H5N1 is drifting away from their test reagents…I wouldn’t at this point be sure of the test results if they did come back negative.
DennisC at 12:51
“…the WHO has to be “invited in”
If true, that’s just beyond stupid. These countries and the WHO are playing fast and loose with people’s health and lives.
There are various ways to get tests done as you and INFOMASS both pointed out. Seems as though they don’t want to know.
Yeah, far as I know, the WHO has no authority to force nations to let them in nor let them have samples.
Tom DVM, “their test reagents” -I’ve been wondering about that, and, just the lack of tests and labs and staff money there must be compared to all the sampling we’d like to see being looked at.
OKbirdwatcher at 13:51-“Seems as though they don’t want to know”.
Got a sardonic chuckle out of that statement. The more abrupt the onset of the pandemic (even though it has been brewing for some time) the less time for WHO to be a “whipping boy”. They can just hunker down in their bunker (yes, there is a bunker) in Geneva without the lash of recriminations stinging their rearends. WHO will be mercifully shunted to the side, relegated to a historical artifact, while the worldwide emergency and aftermath play out.
TomDVM and all: I was going to mention the problems with the testing as well. I think we’ve lost the ability to test when H5N1 co mingles with other virus. This is not something they will want to publicize, but it’s leaking out.
Second, did you see the story of climbers who witnessed people leaving Nepal and being shot in the mountains by chinese guards a few days ago? The climbers brought the story back with them and the film. It seems an odd time of the year to be trying to trek to join the Dali Lama in Pakistan to me. Made me wonder after the story on the mystery illness if these people are tryig to leave a hell zone and it’s not for political reasons?
Any comments? Annon 451 gutsy thing to write. It makes sense to me that a plague year would have more than one virus trying to win the lotto.
Medical Maven – at 14:00
Insightful observation
Leo7 – at 14:01
I think the Dalai Lama is exiled in India, not Pakistan. And it would make more sense if the Chinese had shot people trying to leave Tibet (into Nepal) since it is Tibet that is under Chinese control.
Anon_451 at 12:36 -
Perhaps The Doctor is seeing the same thing?
I googled “Chinese guards Nepal leaving” and the refugees, or pilgrims or whatever they are appear to be traveling from China to Nepal
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061004/india_nm/india270707
…”Hundreds of Tibetans cross the 1,000-km Tibet-Nepal border every year using mountain trails or passes to flee Chinese rule. Most make their way to the north Indian town of Dharmasala, where their spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama, has been in exile since 1959. “…
I would assume the Dalai Lama is not exiled, but a free spirit who is welcome wherever he lays down his head. You can consider a leader exiled, but I somehow doubt that that is how he or his followers feel about the man. He personifies Tibet in their hearts and minds even if the Chinese have taken it over for the present moment. There are Tibetans scattered over the face of the earth. I’ll ask someone who has Tibetan contacts in NYC if they have heard anything.
Got me! Another example of Leo relying on memory only. Still its a rumor thread. So, maybe these Chinese refugees are responsible for the Nepal mystery illness? The story lingered in my mind and engaged because of the mystery illness in Nepal which is why I posted. Thanks Dennis C for correction. No one sees a correlation?
Anon-451 thank you for your post. I have been over on the India thread wondering the same thing for days now, but it’s not sitting well with everyone.
diana – at 14:39
The 14th Dalai Lama fled to exile in 1959. Exile = anyone separated from his or her country or home voluntarily or by force of circumstances.
Leo7 – at 14:44
I see a potential connection but not very strong at this point. Certainly worth watching.
I like this thread.It’s right up my alley .Any comments on the incubation period of the mystery fever with 800 sick in Banduria.(I posted the article on the India thread.)I think the author is trying to get others to see something they might be afraid to speak out on .(Kinda like what what Enza and That’s Just Ducky are referring to) Maybe if we’re real quite “they” won’t find us over here.
I meant to say quiet.
ANON451 sure has my vote for a likely rumor. Reading about the Indo case where an ultimately H5N1 positive “encephalitis” victim without any repiratory or fever symptoms really pushed my button in relation to epidemics of “new” versions of “Dengue” and “encephalitis” that test negative for the disease they attribute it to. The lack of any official response to the implications of the Indo case is really making my tin hat wobbily.
I live very close to a ANG base. Every time things get hot internationally, I’ve usually had a heads-up of about a week because the flyover traffic — the base starts humming like a beehive. (Before the Iraq invasion, fighter jets flew test runs, hard, fast and low, right over our rooftops. We could tell they were practicing under the radar runs. Cool but scary.) Sometimes I’ve seen amazing peices of tax money at work, strange stuff.
I’ve had nothing to report up until now. Just had a flyover by a couple helicopters… but strange ones. Maybe someone with more knowledge can ID. They were flying low, and sounded very loud and powerful, though single rotor. They had a very long spike coming out the front. They also had two projections to each side… I fancied they looked like they were each carrying 2 *large* missiles, but could easily be mistaken.
They were very different from any I’ve ever seen before.
Any ideas?
Were the helicopters black? The spike is a refueling probe.
Dennis in Colorado. You are correct they refer to themselves as being in Exile. I have a tendency to have flights of fancy, and have romantisized the situation. Our area has had many points of contact with them and I never really delved into the situation. Did so, and am much amazed at how little I knew. (One of the neighbors were the first outsiders into Tibet a long, long time ago, so this is part of the legends I bought into.) Read a debunking article which has changed my mind.
walrus, they were very dark but I wouldn’t say black. Dark combat green? Thanks for the answer on the spike. Any idea about the pontoon-like projections? Oh, duh, are they fuel tanks?
Northstar – at 18:46 Very Possible, sounds like Sea Stallions. Very Big Very Strong can refuel other choppers in the air.
I think you win the kewpie doll, Anon-451 — I googled it and on the Naval Defense site that looks like the very one, at least judging from what I saw from underneath. Except the color, they sure weren’t silver.
Bit odd for a landlocked state. But we do have big lakes. ;-) (Michigan)
OK Now I am a bit concerned and my PPF is now a 2.
This is from the INDO Thread
Pixie – at 19:36
Comment: I was wondering just how much general pneumonia and other respiratory diseases an area in Indonesia typically suffers. It seems that most of the H5N1 patients are brought first to a community clinic, and only if their case proves very stubborn and life threatening are they referred to a larger hospital. From East Java:
“‘Thousands of citizens were in Malang attacked by pneumonia’”
MediaIndonesia / Minggu, 15 Oktober 2006 / http://tinyurl.com/am6wk
Malang — MIOL: “‘e Health Service of the Government of the Regency (the Regional Government) Malang, East Java stated at this time thousands of citizens were attacked by the pneumonia illness.’”s illness sufferer was dominated by under age children five years. The “minor pneumonia illness and was handled the community health centre, but difficult pneumonia was handled the hospital, the” headword” of the Illness and Regional Government Sanitation of the Environment of the Health Service of the Eradication Field. It was unfortunate, East Java, Dr Mulyatim Koeswo, m.Cash to the Indonesian Media, on Sunday (15/10).
<snip> As far as this is concerned did not yet have the sufferer who died. “All could have been handled,” he stressed.
<snip>
We’ve had both of our kids have a bout with pneumonia. Both times we were seen at a regular clinic, given some meds and told to go home, give lots of fluids and rest and take all the meds. So minor pneumonias are treated the exact same way here (US)
Leo-7 at 14:01 Second, did you see the story of climbers who witnessed people leaving Nepal and being shot in the mountains by chinese guards a few days ago? The climbers brought the story back with them and the film.
Wasn’t something like this happening at Q-Lake, people being shot. Not to bring up an old subject, but I just can not seems to totally accept that the dogs in China were being killed because of rabies. Have you ever experienced the disposition of a dog with encephalitis?…I know they were not wearing masks but in China if you are told to kill all of the dogs, do you stop and demand a mask. It has now been established that dogs can be infected with H5N1. My gut tells me to also to be aware of what it happening with dogs as well as pigs and other mammels.
India and Nepal have me very concerned.
As for the helicopters, I am in the badger state and I also experienced the helicopter phenom this evening when leaving work at approx. 7:30 pm very loud and alot of hovering, the Air National Guard Fighter Squad fly in and out of the airport adjacent to my work. Something is up, I have tried to scope things out but no one is giving out specifics. Our environmental specialist at work offers little or no information and he/she just recently attended a Pan Preparedness Seminar.
It is nice to know that others out there at time are hesitant to post.
Anon_451 – at 12:36
Still not enough information to know whether a pandemic has started, IMO. Certainly there is something bad going on in India, but I’m not sure that it’s H5N1. Some of the reports I read said that they had tested for dengue. If they really have, then that’s probably what it is. OTOH, it’s possible that they only tested a few and assumed that the others had it too. IMO, if it’s H5N1, there will be huge spike in deaths within one week. And it will include many health care workers.
A flu A test can be done within a few hours and is cheap and easy to perform. It wouldn’t distinguish between H5N1 and H3N2, but if all the people dying have Flu A, then I think testing for H5N1 would be warranted.
I certainly agree that watching India and Nepal closely is a good idea.
Hi everybody!
Could Indonesia be the watched pot that never boils? Meanwhile, it’s strongly simmering elsewhere.
Tom DVM - Would you please get out of my head. It’s frightening enough for me. Although, it is a comfort to know I’m not alone in my thoughts. I honestly believe h5n1 has mutated beyond the current tests abilities. I also believe TPTB have us right where they want us. Aware,but also ignorant. Afterall, we can only have the information the rest of the world is being fed. That for me is not enough, but I will have to learn to live with it. We don’t have the power to make them give us the information. Thanks for the other info. I requested. gina
Monotreme – at 00:49 Thank you and Tom for your input. So I am just a normal peanut nothing special. Oh well
Anon_451 – at 00:54
I’m not saying you’re wrong, just that I’m not sure you’re right. If the body count goes way up, I will adjust my assessment, pronto.
And the people presenting symptoms and dying who are testing -ve for dengue?…
Commentary about WHO in India above - they are in there and they are updating the local WHO site about outbreaks of Chik but nothing new about Dengue. There is a discussion about epidemic patterns of Dengue and that one is overdue by about 12 years. Here is a link to the site - trawl around to check http://www.searo.who.int/
Regarding the pneumonia cases of children. It could be RSV which is often misdiagnosed as mild pneumonia or influenza. It hits kids hard. We can’t expect every viral outbreak to be H5N1. India is worrisome because it’s experiencing a viral soup, I’m not sure about H5N1 being mixed in, yet. I’ll keep watching it too, more eyes, more coverage.
Regarding Nepal and relationship to Asia: it’s estimated that every household relies on wages from at least one family member working outside of Nepal. Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia, etc.
From Nepal’s Dependence on Exporting Labor, January 2005
In the last decade, foreign labor migration has become a major feature of Nepal’s economy and society. Approximately 700,000 Nepalis work “overseas,” meaning beyond India, mainly in the Middle East, East Asia, and Southeast Asia. At least another 950,000 in India.
According to research in 2002 by the Nepal Institute for Development Studies for the women’s fund at the United Nations (UNIFEM), approximately 170,000 or more Nepalis were in East and Southeast Asia, with nearly 36,000 in Europe and over 10,000 in North America…over 465,000 Nepalis work in countries such as Saudi Arabia and Bahrain.
The Southeast Asia Connection - In 1997 it was estimated that over 40 percent of all Nepalis living and working overseas were in Hong Kong, Singapore, and Brunei — most of them in Hong Kong.
In February 2001, the Malaysian government officially “opened” its labor market to Nepali workers. Within six months, over 12,000 labor migrants had left for Malaysia, and a year later Malaysia was hosting some 85,000 Nepali migrant workers.
http://www.migrationinformation.org/Profiles/display.cfm?id=277
i’m posting this on rumors because I don’t have links and am not positive I recall correctly but someone might help me out.
Was it last month, Walmart announced a plan to provide many prescription drugs for $4 a month regardless of whether you had insurace? They were to start the program in October in Florida and if it was a success, expand it by the end of 2007. (As I recall). My husband thought it had to do with all the retirees in Florida, etc. I just thought it sounded interesting from a pandemic perspective — a way to allow people to afford a 3 month supply of prescriptions. $12 for 3 months! Around the same time I read an interesting article about the FDA suddenly allowing people to import a 3 month supply of prescription drugs from Canada. The quote I vividly recall was a spokesperson saying “We used to intercept the drugs and destroy them. We won’t do that anymore.” and also something about “We still think it is not a great idea to import drugs from Canada — but there are other considerations here and other people weighing int othe decision.” Or something vague like that.
Anyhow, today I hear on the news that Walmart is expanding its prescription drug program to 14 more states. I am almost positive this is way ahead of schedule, and Ijust have my radar up as Walmart seems to be popping up as very well informed about PF.
Any comments? Or is this all more of the “Every little piece of news doesn’t have to be about bird flu?”
I don’t know if it ahead of schedule, but the WalMart starts the $4 generic drug program in Oregon today. It started in one specific market in Florida and is expanding, I believe, to eventually cover the country if successful.
The program only involves generic prescription drugs.
BTW, I’m sure the WalMart web site would have more info.
Could be competition from other drug stores mergers.
I just checked and it is definitely ahead of schedule. For what it is worth. I can’t find it, but I definitely rememeber a much slower schedule. Tampa Bay for a month or two, the rest of Florida early next year, and hopefully more states by the end of 2007. Maybe they just found it was really good for nusiness. I’m just saying… also good for people on prescription meds who need the meds but can’t afford to stockpile.
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/health/articles/060922/22walmart.htm
Wal-Mart rolls out $4 prescription drugs By Michelle Andrews
Posted 9/22/06
Attention, Wal-Mart shoppers: Buying prescription drugs is about to get cheaper in Tampa. Under a new program, Wal-Mart customers in that area will be able to buy nearly 300 generic drugs for just $4 for a 30-day supply. Wal-Mart said it plans to offer the deal to all Floridians and in other states next year.
Patients will pay the low rate for typical dosages of many common medications, including the antibiotic amoxicillin, the asthma drug albuterol, metformin, which is taken by many diabetics, and fluoxetine, the generic version of the antidepressant Prozac. Savings will vary depending on the medication. Thirty 20-milligram tablets of fluoxetine cost $15.99 at drugstore.com, for example, while a 30-day supply of amoxicillin costs $7.99
Average Concerned Mom – at 09:37 and others:
Wal-Mart to sell $4 generic drugs in 14 more states
CHICAGO (Reuters) - Wal-Mart Stores Inc. on Thursday said it would begin selling $4 generic prescriptions in 14 additional states, including New York and Texas, speeding up the roll-out of a plan that has put pressure on rival retailers.
Wal-Mart said the $4 program covers a 30-day supply of 143 different drug compounds, representing nearly 25 percent of the prescriptions it currently dispenses in pharmacies nationwide.
The program, initially launched in Florida last month, will be available in an additional 1,264 stores throughout Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Delaware, Illinois, Indiana, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Oregon, Texas and Vermont.
Curious that usnews.com refers to “nearly 300 generic drugs” and Reuters specificaly states 143.
our wal-mart has had that for about a couple of weeks now. (upstate n.y.)
I saw one news brief which stated 300 and 143. I gather it might be that it is different dosage amounts of the 143 which add up to 300. Doesn’t make too much sense, but 143 drugs at $4 each will help out. It is about time that someone did something. Americans pay the most for any drug. I’m taking one pill that I take one time a month and runs me about $80 a pill. I think the costs are prohibitive. Since my consumption of prescription items is pretty low otherwise I wince and pay up. Am going to investigate prescription plans which I have avoided until now.
MSM says Target to join Walmart! How are they making a profit? Who cares! This is so good news for the elderly. I’ve seen prescriptions bills for an older couple that was hitting a thousand dollars a month. Each had a chronic disease with high BP, High cholesterol etc. Anything that reduces that bill can only be good news. We’ll be paying less just like the Canadians!!!!!!!!!
I wonder who is making the generic drugs? I understand that most US drug manufacturing has moved offshore, or to areas like Puerto Rico. Also, there is a great deal of medical ability in India, Singapore, and I understand that some of the drug manufacturing facilities are top notch. About time we had some benefits from ‘globalization’
Most of the generic antibiotics and a lot of the BP meds are made offshore in India.
Oh that’s nice to know!
Ok, not to rehash a dead dog, but here is another link,this one from the guardian paper, a tad more mainstream, about the land purchase in paraguay. There may be nothing to it, but they do mention 400 troops being there, It just seems to me that this is something to watch…I understand the arguement that a pandemic will hit everywhere, but wouldn’t the flu season be at a different time in the southern hemiphere, and regardless, on 100k acres, you could sip pretty well! Just something to watch on the rumor page.
[[http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1928928,00.html| Paraguay in a spin about Bush’s alleged 100,000 acre hideaway]]
One other thing that seemed strange. was this comment on a site I read:
‘’Drop those Flowers
Security-mindedness is one thing, but we were shocked when a reader sent us this:
“Hi George,
I recently looked at an application for a Master Gardener program from UC Extension. Applicants must agree to be “fingerprinted and pass a US Department of Justice screening process”.
This? For a *gardening class*? What do they fear? That we will steal worms?”
You got me…’‘
I know I leave on my tinfoil hat too much, but my first thought(and my dh,also) was that maybe tptb were gathering some kind of list to help in reconstuction. Why else would all the documentation be required to volunteer? These people aren’t involved in the national food chain or any other kind of nat sec issue, and they certainly don’t require this stringent of a background check of the laborers actually involved in our food processing. Just thought that any unusual movements will possibly give us a heads up on timing (nothing more intended).
There are four kinds of dengue. Get one and you can still get the other three later on. The CDC has an excellent run down on dengue. Those of you in southern states should check it out. Just google up Dengue and get the CDC site. They also list exactly which counties have been found to harbor the mosquito vector. I’m sure I have some in my backyard. It seemed to me the mosquitos that bit me this summer were a more agressive bunch even though I keep “Off” on my front steps if I want to sit and read. I’ll be spraying more and looking at the bugs next summer.
From another site I read:
-Alot of internal debate going on in localized areas. One half wants to inform the public the other half wants to wait until BF hits. Then just shack them up in shelters. Plans are in place for PSA’s and other ways of communication to teach people how to deal with a deceased person at home. May be several days before they can be picked up in larger areas. Told us once imbalmed, they dont have to be refridgerated. They can be stored anywhere and then make a mass burial. Any funerals will be after the flu has passed. You may have a loved one pass away and not be able to have a service for 2 months afterwards. Chances are not body for the service when you do because it will have been buried in a mass burial. Funerals will not be allowed. It was discussed today that now instead of being the 3rd step, social distancing may become the first step. So when a state has its first sign of human to human transmission, if that is, social distancing will go into effect.
Strangely enough while the talk of this stuff, a state PHO said that they been trying to mutate the disease and forcing it to mutate. The disease, this strain anyway, keeps dieing and they cant make it mutate with current human virus. This strain that everyone is worried about, they cant make it do it. Said he/she was a dead set believer in this coming and now they are not too sure. Quote, “I am not too sure anymore, I still have to be prepared and cautious, but I really am believing this disease is nothing more than hype. They cant force it to make the jump even under the most perfect biological settings in the lab.”
=There is alot of bickering going on at different agencies. The feeling I got is that there is a part of them that want the hype to continue and another that wants it toned down. Alot more people has resigned or been reassigned.
-POD’s are going to the major metropolitian areas first and already packed and ready to go. Others are being packed 24/7 as we speak.
-Said to start expecting to see alot more National Guard convoys in the next 6 weeks do to activation and movement. Said they are being moved about to be in place for the more vulnerable areas. Noone asked anything beyond that.
Bluebonnet - Will you point us to your source(s) for this information?
Bluebonnet – at 09:23
What’s a POD?
Blue Bonnet or others, please define the following:
PSA’s
PHO
POD’s
PSA = Public Service Announcement
PHO = Public Health Official
POD = large containers full of equipment/food/necessary items (I think)
tjclaw1 - at 10:35
POD = Points Of Distribution. This is a FEMA term of logistics of movement of supplies. There may be many PODs in each state and the contents of units sent to PODs will vary with the situation being addressed. Units sent thru PODs may contain fuel, food, or medical supplies - whatever is needed on site due to critical shortages locally.
Perhaps “POD” means “Portable On Demand Storage”
Bluebonnet how (the heck) do they think all the bodies are going to be embalmed? Not ready -probably anywhere- locally currently. (Anything in print for the Mass Fatality Management Plans thread?)
(Public is not going to like bodies in limbo somewhere, waiting for mass burial. Don’t let work pile up.)
Thanks all.
JWB, also, DOH! is Department of Health Official! ;-)
Concerning body disposal-If the worst comes to pass, TPTB may have to research Nazi archives. I remember reading grisly accounts of the Holocaust in which the Nazis had difficulty burning bodies at first and had to do a great bit of experimentation until they finally became efficient at it.
Proper planning prevents piling prior persons.
oops; Proper Preparation prevents piling prior persons
crfullmoon – at 11:21 Bluebonnet how (the heck) do they think all the bodies are going to be embalmed? Not ready -probably anywhere- locally currently.
As far as the burial quote goes, I have mentioned before that funeral home directors probably have not been involved at all with pandemic planning (at least not in my state) and will not have enough embalming fluid on hand for that many bodies, staff, or storage space for the bodies. It is a nice thought, but will not work.
In regard to the quote stating that if the virus could not be forced to mutate in a laboratory setting, the concern about a pandemic is probably hype: IMHO, we humans can be very arrogant at times thinking that if we cannot do it, Mother Nature cannot either. I have a feeling that Mother Nature is going to teach us a harsh lesson about respecting what she is capable of doing…..
“I have a feeling that Mother Nature is going to teach us a harsh lesson about respecting what she is capable of doing…..”
Sniffles. Exactly. Nature can be astonishingly beautiful and a terrorist with astonishing ruthlessness when it wants to be: We are the pretenders.
Again, this is from terminusreality. Take it for what it’s worth.
The discussion about bodies totally chilled me! I can’t imagine mass burials and embalmed bodies being stacked like cordwood. I agree that funeral directors probably have not been involved in the planning. There was also a bit of discussion after this post that you might not even be buried in your own cemetary plot. Brrr - Gives me the creeps!
I fully believe that there is a difference of opinion in TPTB regarding whether to get the info out or not. Don’t have anything to back that up - just a belief based on past disasters.
Sniffles - It’s not nice to fool Mother Nature. I think she is going to teach us allllll a hard lesson.
What bothers me most about the post is the talk of trying to “force a mutation.” I’m still searching to see if I can come up with any evidence to support this work. I assume it is vaccine work?
Bluebonnet – at 12:08
You should read The Great Influenza by John Barry. In 1918–1919 they did stack the bodies like cordwood (without the embalming, though) and they did have mass graves. They were barely able to keep up with recording all the dead. There were just way too many bodies to do anything else.
I am sure the same thing will happen in the next pandemic if it’s as severe as the Spanish Flu pandemic.
Personaly I don’t care a hoot what happens to my body after death. Yet most people do. Look at the ruckus 5 years after the fact over some bones at the WTC. As far as I am concerned my body is merely a shell that allows me to feel and to function as a human. To me what counts is the spirit inside that shell that makes us what we are. Let your family know how you feel and if possible they will go by your wishes. If it goes pandemic, no one will be able to follow your wishes, they will have be concerned with contageon, and noone to bury you in a burial plot. There was a long, long thread way back that covered all aspects of death and the disposal of remains.
Bluebonnet, etal.
If you google “Fema pods” (without quotes) you can access some fema powerpoint presentations detailing distribution plans and organizations. You can discover what region you’re in and where your primary military base is. Sorry folks, still don’t know how to make a link.
Just a heads up here in Indiana and possibly in other states as well. Meijer stores are offering certain antibiotic prescriptions for FREE. Hope this helps someone.
crfullmoon – at 11:21
Bluebonnet how (the heck) do they think all the bodies are going to be embalmed?
Did y’all not see those DIY embalming kits on Amazon?:-o
http://tinyurl.com/ylkmp7 “ Points of Distribution (PODs) Sites - temporary local facilities at which commodities are distributed directly to disaster victims. PODs are operated by the affected state. “
2beans – at 12:22 URL: http://tinyurl.com/yjly9d
Closed for length and continued here