Heard any good rumors lately? Post ‘em here. Continued from New Rumors X here
observer – at 11:20
Dark Winter demonstrates the potential threat we face from multiple sources and why prepping should not be linked to a single event (avian influenza pandemic, Y2K, the cold war, Katrina, blizzards, 9–11). Unfortunately, people frequently dismiss the whole idea when the potential disaster of the moment doesn’t come to pass. My parents generation believed in being prepared and they were - they live through alot. They didn’t expected the govenment would be able to arrive and save them. It is time we too, understand what they understood. We are each responsible for those we love. Government will do what it can but it will be very limited. The threat has always been real, we chose not to think about it; to ignore it; to expects it was someone elses job; to shoot the messenger; to lay the blame elsewhere. Sometimes reality sucks but that doesn’t change the facts.
crfullmoon – at 11:22
JWB – at 09:03 :-(
Frenchie Girl, “can the American citizen possibly believe that their spying structures can help protect them???” Je le ne croix pas.
observer – at 11:37
FrenchieGirl – at 11:17
Article was from 2002 - “Just for a reality check about smallpox… Iraq and North Korea Possess Smallpox, Intelligence Indicates… A U.S. intelligence official confirmed that the Central Intelligence Agency concluded last spring that Iraq, Russia, France and North Korea are likely to possess stocks of smallpox”
Any conjecture about the new WHO article on the probable high CFR rate and what’s to come?
Libbyalex: Maybe I misread their statement, but it seemed more of an “if-then” kind of statement. IF the virus becomes easily transmissible as an avian virus, THEN it would be very deadly. [not a quote - my rephrasing] I saw no suggestion that it was more or less probable than reassortment with a human flu virus, which they say would be less deadly. We all would love to get some sense of the chances of one or the other, but unless we understand more about viral evolution than it seems we do, we just do not know.
libbyalex – at 16:42
Any conjecture about the new WHO article on the probable high CFR rate and what’s to come?
It’s not a conjecture at all. The scientists are verifying what we’ve been saying for a long time. Check out this classic FW discussion Must A PanFlu Decrease In Lethality
The conjecture is not about the likelihood of a high CFR, that is old news as anon_22 pointed out. The conjecture is why did “old lady” WHO raise her skirt and “flash” the world with that information at this precise point in time. She could have done it at any time in the last few months. Why now?
This is the “second shoe” to drop in as many days. The “first shoe” was the just-revealed, long-dominant Fujian strain of H5N1.
And prior to that you had the rumored/reported apocalyptic rumblings from mid-level underlings at the WHO headquarters in Geneva.
There is more to this puzzle. We are missing the catalyst. The ones in the know long knew what we knew for months. Nobody is that stupid.
MM @ 1824
“We are missing the catalyst.”
That’s what worries me. Catalyst ‘X’
Yug. Medical Maven – at 18:24; what an unpleasant visual.
ok, “IF the virus becomes easily transmissible as an avian virus, THEN it would be very deadly”
now: cue all the past, “It is not a matter of “if” but “when” we have an influenza pandemic offical statements…
Goggle search Nov 2/06….go figure.
Xinhua - 11 hours ago
JINAN, Nov. 2 (Xinhua) — “Shandong Province, east China, has reinstated round-the-clock bird flu monitoring to prevent possible outbreaks as more and more migratory birds fly over the province on their way further south.”
Xinhua - 9 hours ago
NANCHANG, Nov. 2 (Xinhua) — “UN officials on Thursday said migratory birds do not play a major role in the transmission of the highly pathogenic avian influenza H5N1.”
TomDMV:
My daughter today received an email about”The Great Epizootic of 1872,” the horse epizootic that occured in 1872 and I wondered how it fit into your historical perspective of the flu.
It seems that in 1872 the flu-like epizootic caused the death of approximately 1/4 of all horses in America. After those losses, lack of horse power forced tram companies to look for ways to mechanize and electrify their routes, and they did.
From a primary source of the times, they also mentioned: “Recently the chickens have become attacked with similar ailments, to the great alarm of the farmers.” http://tinyurl.com/yzpkxg
Pixie. Wow. Thanks. It just goes to show, how much circumstancial evidenciary information is out there that we don’t know about.
I know of H3N8 in horses but that is about it. I don’t think it is very prevalent but I am not a horse expert. I know that H3N8 was stable for many decades before jumping the species barrier to attack dogs recently in the United States.
I wonder if this outbreak in 1872 was when H3N8 emerged. I did notice that the writer noted that chickens were also infected…confirming it was influenza.
I found the following quote most interesting:
“So the scientific (?) editor of the New York Herald, who repeatedly makes himself the laughing-stock of all better-informed readers by his theories of the aurora borealis, of the heat of last summer, etc., etc., comes out with an article on the horse disease, and proclaims that it is intimately connected with well-marked meteorological phenomena, namely, the recurrence of the sunspots in sopra-annual cycles, which bring every twelve years the greatest aerial and electrical derangements to our planet ; and seeing that the cause is not terrestrial, but planetary and cosmical, it helps to unravel the mystery, and is a step in the right direction.”
I remember back in the 1980′s when I first heard of an effect that sunspots supposedly had on viral mutations…I thought they were NUTS!! How could an atronomical effect have an effect on the lowly virus.
It piqued my interest and I continued to read the odd mention about such things…then in 1988, the hydro system in Quebec, Canada was shut down by a solar flare…I was reallly impressed.
Anyway, I am convinced that sunspots are one contributor to the situation we now find ourselves in…not only with China Flu but also with SARS, HIV, Ebola, Hendra, Nipah Foot and Mouth etc. etc. etc. viruses as well as mutations in mosquito borne diseases like West Nile in New York City and Dengue fever in Asia …as well as allowing the virus to infect different insect species…as well as a wide range of bacteria including MRSA’s.
The shifting bedrock is occurring in distinct geographical locations around the world…
…and I believe this environmental pressure is the primary reason that China Flu will be a pandemic soon.
Thanks again for the wonderful look back to 1872.
Sorry if this is a question which has already been answered - but what is the current sunspot “situation?”
Are we in a period similar to previous outbreak periods?
Thanks
Hi Sunny. I don’t have the chart in front of me…in fact I lost it and the sunspot thread that it was on seems to have disappeared…
…anyway, we are definitely in the point in the sunspot cycle that increases our chances of a pandemic and I believe the danger keeps getting worse until approx. 2012…but I could be wrong.
One way that I have come to look at suspot activity is that there may be a lag period between ‘cause and effect’ meaning that it could be a stimulus a few years ago that has increased mutation activity now…
…the charts do indicate that periodicity in suspots matches the periodicity in pandemics…
…understanding that pandemics are multi-factoral in etiology of course.
Ok, this is not really a rumor, but more a strange question/concern. I was just looking at coats at a major retailer - they are “goose down” and I know most of this company’s products come from China. Do you think there should be any concern about “goose down” products? I don’t know how the products are produced and what methods are used to clean the down. Anybody else ever thought about this?
Now I see that their comforters are “certified sterilized safe” but the coats don’t mention this. Think I’ll inquire….
I’ve thought about it - almost ordered a down blanket last night, and then common sense grabbed me by the scruff of the neck and I went and bought a silk sweater instead. I think the only feathers I want are the ones I’ve lived with for the past couple of years (that’s when I bought my quilt and pillows!).
This may be old, so put it under rumors.
Its Not Going Away:
According to the OIE’s report on November 24, 2005, the Thai government claimed “No new outbreaks of highly pathogenic avian influenza were reported during the week under report.” [1] No recurrence of HP H5N1 was reported in the following weeks and months.
So, on April 10, 2006, the OIE issued a final report, which states that, based on information from the Thai government:
One hundred and forty (140) days have elapsed since the last case of highly pathogenic avian influenza (HPAI) in Thailand (on 9 November 2005), where stamping-out with compensation was employed. [2]
The press promptly reported the eradication of avian influenza from Thailand and Vietnam and added to the self-praise of the Thai government for having taken effective measures.
The question
What does it mean if a country reports they haven’t found H5N1 in recent months? If it were Russia, or a country in most of central Europe, it probably would be good news because there is reasonable surveillance and reporting. But one can’t take negative reports for granted. See the Thai example:
Outgoing Ubon Ratchathani senator Nirand Pitakwatchara said at the weekend that he believes bird flu has resurfaced in Thailand, but that state authorities have concealed the matter for political reasons . . . The senator’s comments coincided with the disclosure by a livestock official who told a Phoojadkarn Daily reporter that bird flu has returned in Phichit and Phitsanulok provinces, killing poultry there in recent months. [3]
If this allegation is true, does it mean that the HP H5N1 virus has returned after a successful eradication campaign, or was it not eradicated in the first place and just not detected?
Bad news
Apparently what’s killing Thai poultry in recent months is the H5N1 virus.
As of a week ago, Thai government representatives were still claiming there were no human cases.[4] The same day, a 17-year-old man was reported to have died from acute lung infection and flu-like symptoms, confirmed to be a death from H5N1 infection.
As of July 27, 2006, the Thai Office of Disease Prevention and Control 8 reported nine new cases and sixteen further cases under investigation. [5]
As of July 28, 2006, there apparently were forty-four patients under close supervision after they developed bird-flu-like symptoms, and seven Thai provinces were declared bird-flu “red zones.”
Some items state “certified sterilized safe” while other items say “super clean.” Uh, I think I’ll pass on the goose/duck feather coats and comforters.
Makes me wonder if there are other non-obvious items we use/purchase every day that are made of materials which could carry virus.
Pixie & TomDMV:
The 1872 Great Epizotic seems to have been caused by mosquitos.
<snip>
The Boston fire scared people, and scientists were urged to work even harder to find the cause of the Great Epizootic. But the virus was never isolated. The disease continued taking its toll until well into December, when really cold weather set in and suddenly ended its ravages. Only later did scientists learn that cold weather had killed the mosquitos that transmitted the deadly virus.
Sunny,
Sunspots were discussed on the Pigs in China thread.
Abraxas. Thanks. I am from southern Canada and the mosquitos are usually gone here with the first frost in early September. I would assume that frosts in Buffalo and Syracuse would also be in September. Frosts in New York City would probably occur in October.
Since the disease continued to kill horse until December, I would not think it was mosquito-borne which would kill animals earlier in the summer.
The article did say that the disease seemed to kill more horses housed together which would also fit respiratory transmission more than mosquito borne transmission.
A really interesting situation though, that I had never heard of before Pixie pointed it out…
…I wonder if this was the beginnings of influenza in horses. Pigs did not have influenza before they caught it from us in 1918 and it has not left Pig populations since.
I wonder also if this was the beginnings of H3N8 that has now jumped to dogs.
I’ve done some more googling and most articles about the 1872 epizotic seem to confirm that it was flu.
I’m amazed that I had not heard of this before. One-quarter of the horses in the US died, but it’s impossible for one-quarter of the humans could die from H5N1. Does that make sense. Nope.
TomDVM- I wonder if increased sunspot ativity was in effect during the 1918 pandemic?
We had a later than usual first frost, and no Indian summer. I’m 90 miles north of Syracuse. Sure missed all those ladybugs in my house. To not have Indian Summer here is odd to us. But, you what is creepy? No one has realy noticed we didn’t have one.
tjclaw1 – at 13:03
Ok, this is not really a rumor, but more a strange question/concern. I was just looking at coats at a major retailer - they are “goose down” and I know most of this company’s products come from China. Do you think there should be any concern about “goose down” products? I don’t know how the products are produced and what methods are used to clean the down. Anybody else ever thought about this?
As part of pandemic preparedness, we may need some really good practice in risk assessment, cos we will need it almost every day, at every turn, come a pandemic.
One useful way of assessing risk is this, has anyone been known to be infected this way? If you don’t know, then ask yourself how many goose down products have been sold in the past 3 years in your country, and whether anyone else has come down with the disease.
If you are extra paranoid (this being a descriptive not derogatory word), then you might say well some people might have been infected, undiagnosed, died, and I didn’t hear about it. Yes, my response would be, consider how may people have died in car crashes in the last 24 hours, yet you still get into the car.
Just my 2C, or one way of approaching risk. Adopt it if it is useful. :-)
Here’s my motto for risk: Don’t aim at zero percent. That only happens when someone dies.
annon_22-
good advice. I am led to believe that it is the body fluids,(in chickens), that spread the virus, not the feathers. So,tjclaw1, I’d go ahead and buy that coat! Makes me remember the feather pillows we used as a child. I would pull on feather out, and a whole bunch would follow. I hated those d**n pillows.
Cottontop- Down here in ky we sure have the lady bugs! I’ll send you some if you want…:-)
cotton top @ 15:15 Hey now!
Re: Current Sun Spot Activity. Actually we are the very bottom of the sun spot/solar flare cycle right now. Picturing a wave, we are in the trough and the next peak will be around 2012. That said, the last cycle of solar flare activity was highly unusual and lasted way past its peak time. In fact, in late 2003, when cases of H5N1 were showing up in some places, there was the largest recorded solar flare in history! During the days immediately prior to this flare there was extremely unusual solar activity in the form of multiple higher intensity X Class flares grouped within a short time frame. The question remains whether this 2003 burst of flares is somehow connected to the emergence of H5N1 in humans.
Anyone interested in the possible correlation between solar flares and flu putbreaks can google the term “Heliogeophysical Conditions on Influenza Diseases” I believe the link will download a PDF with the graph that Tom DVM referred to above.
Green Mom- Would love to have’em.
Feather Pillow- LOL. No offense intended.
The feathers are sanatized anyway
anon_22 You are absolutely right. I guess I’ve become a little concerned about animal products that come from regions affected by H5N1, as well as the geese and ducks migrating across my back yard and telling the kids not to touch the feathers and bird doo. Add to that the recent infections associated with produce, and I get a little worried about the safety of the products we buy.
BTW, I meant no offense when I mentioned products from China - what I really meant was bird products from countries known to have H5N1. Guess I was having a blonde moment - oh yeah, I AM a blonde!
I am blonde too TJC! But I dont eat frozen shrimp from Indonesia anymore!!
I was listening to Dr. Ronald Hoffman and a guest. He mentioned Walmart will be featuring organic food. Only one problem, the guest thinks they’ll be getting it from China. Problem. Polluted water. Heavy metals???? The guest was a skeptic. Problem you might be getting it cheaper, but…. And we are outsourcing everything to our own economic disavantage. I don’t see any produce on the shelves of any Walmart I have been to, so I assume it would be frozen organic.
The frozen fish filets I almost bought yesterday at Fresh Market were from Indonesia. No thanks.
Last year we were told that the mosquito that carries West Nile virus is not killed by frost or freezing. It can revive during a warm spell in January, for example. And spread disease then. Wonder if that’s true of other types of mosquitoes?
Go read Dr Gregers book. you wont feel the same about chicken from this country either. getting my chickens from the Amish.
janetn – at 15:26 Go read Dr Gregers book. you wont feel the same about chicken from this country either. getting my chickens from the Amish.
Only problem with getting chick or eggs from a farm is that the chickens are usually “free range,” so they could get infected when they mingle with migrating birds. I used to get my eggs and chicken from a local farmer, and was going to get a fresh turkey from them, until I became aware of H5N1 last year.
Don’t be fooled into thinking that products are safer just because they are produced in U.S. Lots of geneticically modified products, hormones in milk, heavy metals in water. Heck, we even have radon in our city drinking water and it doesn’t meet EPA compliance.
Regarding earlier comment suggesting Walmart gets organic food from China. I have bought some what I thought were “name brand” organic canned goods there (Libby’s, etc.). Is there the suggestion that these are imitation “Libby” brand foods and really from China!? China has quite the reputation for counterfeiting brand name items. I will be extremely upset because I did get some “organic” canned chicken there that wore a well-known American-brand label.
Walmart is reported to be getting into the organic area. I don’t think this is the case at present. It is something I heard on WOR last nite. I had just gotten back from a movie so it was probably around 9. A guest and ‘Dr Hoffman were discussing food.Organic beef, Organic produce in general and that was the last thing I heard before leaving my car.
Yes, here in the west they do already have organic foods of all kinds. Specifically what Walmart organics were suggested to be from China?
can someone who believes in the sunspost theory of enhanced viral activity please tell me HOW they think sunspot activity is affecting virus INSIDE host bodies? OR do you think the effect occurs in the brief period the virus survives in the environment.
Anyone else notice on that rsoe/havaria map all the volcano’s erupting in the world? I have never seen anything like that before!
lohrewok @ 20:52 - Yes, I noticed that too! Doesn’t it feel with everything that’s going on, that something big might be getting ready to happen??
Do you have that link?
The triangles are currently erupting volcanos.
lohrewok, betty, and otf&l
Download this program, and run it through time, and you’ll see the ebb and flow and relative consistency over time, (with statistical variation) of volcanic eruptions. Earthquakes too, for that matter.
Purdue_link
which is a actually a program written by this Professor- it is found on his homepage about halfway down.
ProfessorJones_page
remember that the more you look for something, the more likely you are to see it, and the reason all that volcanic activity (much of which are not acutual cataclysmic eruptions) looks unusual to you, is just because you’ve never seen it all gathered in one place before.
with the “Your genes may hold key to how sick you get from the flu” report from Southern Illinois University School of Medicine, Does anyone know if there is a relation to blood type? Remember we were talking about that several months back. The report was about the genetic differences in mice (lung proteins) but I wonder if there is any confirmation about blood types. Does anyone have the blood types of the various groups of positive cases?
Anon @ 19:41 Can’t say as I’m one who “believes” in the effect of solar flares on virii since I generally like to work with patterns and correspondences which may or may not involve causation; however will still take a run at this. Perhaps we could compare the effects of the ionic and magnetic storms generated by solar flares and corneal mass eruptions to what happens in photosynthesis-? After all, how does the Sun’s rays work on underground seeds, which they apparently do. Solar flares and/or CMEs can effect the electronics of highly sophisticated satellites and have even taken out power grids on Earth. Virii are so simplistic, wouldn’t they be even easier to effect? YMMV of course.
Now, speaking of “patterns and correspondences,” while I’m here I think I’ll take this opportunity to post something I’ve been discussing with a couple of board members, who have encouraged my research over the last week. To the best of my knowledge, the following statements and statistics are true. Don’t feel I can post more, however, due to the likelihood of running up against certain observed [pre]judgments…. but here goes:
Working hypothesis: When event X and event Y occur at the same time, there is a statistically high probability that a flu pandemic with significant CFR, or another comparable public health crisis/crises, will be triggered within weeks or months.
X has a specific, verifiable definition and the mathematical likelihood of 4.16% Y has a specific, verifiable definition and the mathematical likelihood double that of X or 8.33% XY occurring at the same time has the mathematical likelihood of .034%, or 3 chances in 1,000.
During the last 176 years, XY has occurred a total of 5 times. In 4 out of those 5 times, or at a rate of 80%, a world wide flu pandemic or comparable public health “event” occurred. These events happened in 1830, 1889–90, 1918, and 1976. There were two milder flu pandemics in 1958 and 1967 which neither fit the XY pattern nor had significant CFRs when compared to the other prior events. Thus they fall outside the limitations of the hypothesis and, for that reason, may actually confirm it.
Importance: Beginning on October 24th, 2006, the XY pattern went into effect and will continue through Dec 8th, 2006, with possible aftereffects beyond that date. If the statistics above bear up, does that mean there is a high probability a flu pandemic [or other public health crisis] will emerge during the 2006–2007 flu season?? [Bear in mind it may take time for this “emergence” to be recognized should it occur in a remote location, and also that it may not be announced immediately by official government or worldwide medical organizations for their own reasons.]
Tom DVM – at 12:39
…anyway, we are definitely in the point in the sunspot cycle that increases our chances of a pandemic and I believe the danger keeps getting worse until approx. 2012…but I could be wrong. … …the charts do indicate that periodicity in suspots matches the periodicity in pandemics… ←
Tom, the relation between sunspots and pandemics is trivial: the solar cycle to some extent controls large-scale climate. Geese and ducks nest near water, and the drought/flood cycle moves their migration pathways. When the US Midwest has a drought, few birds nest there, preferring to move northwards or overseas to find suitable habitat. It is these factors relating to large-scale changes in migration patterns, along with the fact that most avian influenza is spread via the oral/gut path in birds, that controls how many multiple infections occur: the fewer lakes, the less mixing, the smaller the lakes, the less mixing. It is the recombinations caused during multiple mixing that drive new pandemic strains to emerge. This is really not that complicate. But sunspots don’t “cause” pandemics, they just set climate cycles in motion, and the climate cycles drive migration, and the avian influenza is just a hitchiker on these greater cycles. It’s hard to see the 22 year solar cycles because we only live to see a few, so you need good records to reconstruct what is going on.
The 11 and 22-year cycles are not that hard to spot, all you need is a weather station with about 100 years of record. In Excel, in column A type 100 years of annual rainfall data. Then get the average for the 100 years. In column B, calculate the difference between the year’s data and the mean. This is called the deviation. Do this for every number in the column. In column C, total up the accumulations verticaly, the first deviation in the first cell, the first two added up in the second cell, the first three added up in the third cell, on to the bottom, which will be the sum of all 100 deviations from the mean. Graph this third column with time, and the larger climate cycles pretty much jump out. You see droughts start, deepen, and fade out, and wet cycles ramp up, peak, and flatten out. Some stations are more sensitive to the 11-yr cycle, some are more sensitive to the 22-yr cycle. If this seems too hard, look at tree rings on a tree over 100 years old. These big climate patterns drive practically everything, so it’s no surprise that all kinds of wierd things track the climate cycles. But as far as sunspots causing influenza pandemics, it’s not as simple as that.
Hi All, Have lurked for awhile and posted a couple of times.Got A Google News Alert today for panemic news. This is by Victor D’Angelo of the www.dogflu.ca A New bird flu strain has emerged in China and is spreading quickly. Human infections caused by this new strain have also turned up in many different locations. The new strain is vaccine-sensitive. “This virus seemed to spread very fast over a big geographic region.,” said Yi Guan,director of the State Key Laboratory of Emerging Infectious Diseases at the University of Hong Kong in China;. Dated at2006–11–04 17:30
Spirit in the Wind@ 21.01 So what’s with the damn chicken over Lake Ontario on that map link???
If you are having a hard time looking up the atricle. Look at the left side. Under Human Health Hit the Health News Sorry I did not put that in before.
Nova at 19:01
I think it was late summer, a news release re: Hormel Bejing producing organic pork. Not sure if Wal-Mart would sell it, but stands to reason. Someone correct me if this is wrong.
I’m seeing more and more organic products at our WM. Pasta and canned beans come to mind and I know there are others I can’t remember right now.
As far as labels are concerned, I don’t think they mean much anymore. Unless specifically stated, we don’t really know where a lot of our food comes from. Country of Origin Labeling is currently required by law only on seafood. Unless further delayed, in Sept. 2008 Country of Origin Labeling will be required on beef, lamb, pork and perishable agricultural commodities and peanuts. Tom DVM can explain the games that are/will be played in avoidance of accurate source disclosure.
Dennis C:
Re: Your question regarding blood types. I work with two nurses who are Rh- according to them they lack a protein on their cells that would allow a virus to take hold. What they argue is that the lack of the RH protein makes the outer cell slippery. We tease them alot and hum various versions of twilight zone music but they are serious about this. In fact they get down right agitated, even though most doctors say there isn’t a connection to blood type Rh and disease other than the fetal problem between Rh- mom and Rh+ fetus.
In the US less than 20% of the population have RH - blood, so they think they’re special and they also state that the delta 32 gene -the one that helped the black plague victims is more likely in this Rh - blood group. Well, I studied the delta 32 gene research and the authors never name this Rh factor as a connection but just a mutation on a gene. (However this is a genetic survival mechanism for HIV and it’s well documented). The mutation for Rh- and delta 32 are on seperate genes. However they do say that around 20% of the population have this whole gene or partial delta 32 mutation and that the mutation is more common in Caucausians. The gene mutaton and the Rh- factor are in about the same percentage (20) of the population and more common in Caucausians.
So, while they can’t produce hard research that backs them up, they believe it all the same.
These nurses are called on the job to go down and give blood, and that’s never happened to me or anyone else I work with who give blood. Rh - blood of all types is best for emergencies with the gold standard as O - the universal donor. They can give blood to others but they can’t accept positive blood although there is a trend to try it on older females and males due to blood supply issues. You will have to make up your own mind on this because it’s the RH - people driving the question about the relationship of blood type by Rh not ABO and disease.
I found one map that lists blood types per country, but I have seen better but can’t find them now. This one is very simple.
Interesting theory on blood types. One sister is O- and she’s the sickliest of us. Other sis is A-, as is her only son. I’m A- with 1 A- child and 1 A+ child. The two of us that are A- are constantly sick, and A- daughter was confirmed with type A influenza a couple years ago, so while I wish it were true that we don’t get A influenza viruses, it just aint so.
Grandma good to see you out and about on the boards!
gharris – at 22:48 Spirit in the Wind@ 21.01 So what’s with the damn chicken over Lake Ontario on that map link???
It’s low path bird flu. If you click on the icon, it will explain the location, date, time and severity of the even. Or, you can scroll down to see the details.
Chickens are not a good thing to see. The even is actually in NY State.
Anon, Too: sounds like quite the pattern. The X Y relationship has occured during past pandemics which is quite disturbing.
Spirit in the Wind
Anon, too at 21:45
I seem to have missed this discussion. Since you are “anonymous”, can you not risk telling us what the “X” and “Y” might be? If we are willing to entertain the idea that solar activity may be affecting pandemic incidence, it is an indication that we are willing to examine all possibilities as long as there is a hint of plausibility. If you were to say that “plants talk to each other” you would likely be called crazy. That is until you could show that one plant which was attacked by insects released airborne chemicals that could be sensed by another plant which then increased its production of compounds that the insects would find unpalatable. The idea of sending images from one place to another through the air (i.e. television) is even more ridculous on its face. That does not mean it should be dismissed outright. I think those on the boards may be less hostile than you think. Everyone is looking for whatever edge we may be able to get in narrowing down the “when” in this case. Please consider sharing your parameters for those willing to look past the superficial implausibility.
Recently I had a conversation with an aquaintance of mine who is in the Nation Guard medical service corps of one of the states.I intend to protect his identity so I will not be more specific.He told me that about six months ago he was in a briefing on bird flu in which the possibility was mentioned that whole cities might have to be quarantined-no one allowed to leave.He said that he was too far down the totem pole to be in on any planning so that he knew nothing about what criteria would be used to trigger such an action.One thing he did say,however,was that he has been assigned to a reaction team whose purpose is to check out specific reported outbreaks.His one comment on warning signs was”If I suddenly disappear you will know something is up.”Six months ago would be shortly after the first reports of limited H2H transfer.I note that the military is setting up its own warning net rather than rely entirely on local health departments.All this is old news and is on the rumor thread because the source is unidentified but it does fit in well with what has elsewhere been reported.
I don’t know where else to post this , so I will put it here . Last night I got some real eye opening and scary information . I was watching a specific channel on television and several people were talking . I won’t name any names of the group. but this was like a two hr. show. and they specifically said that they were just waiting for something like a national emergency or a pandamic and then they will take over what ever part of the United States that they want to controll. Apparently these people are all over the world and growing stronger all the time. It scared me because I’ve heard a lot about these people before and they can be ruthless. So while we are trying to survive, there are others out there making other plans. something to think about.
Reconscout - at 8:13
The National Guard and military know they will have to take charge because the local public health people simply have not. It is from the military that we are hearing the term “community shielding.” Either a community becomes pro-active and can shield itself, or it becomes a problem and a source of unrest and infection and then everyone else will need to be “shielded” from that community.
lady biker – at 08:26 Why not name the channel, show, and people? If they’re brave enough to go on national TV, they don’t care to keep their identity private. Who sponsored the show? I did see a show recently about the Taliban and the comments that were made by them was pretty frightening. Basically blamed all U.S. citizens for electing our president, and said all deserved to die.
There will always be people who try to take advantage of a situation, but in the case of a pandemic, many of those people will be dead.
Reconscout – at 08:13, thanks for passing that along. (sigh)
Lady Biker - you were watching this on TV and yet you won’t name names? That has got to be the silliest thing I have ever heard. If you saw something on TV where people said they were poised to take over a part of the country, why wouldn’t you explain it in further detail?
I have to tell you that I think you are pulling our legs here.
Newsie at 8:42 - Yep, those were my thoughts exactly. Some things just make no sense…
Newsie,I think Lady Biker just dosen`t want to give them any more publicity.She does,however, want to point out the problem they represent.
Perhaps Ladybiker wasn’t watching TV. She was watching a 2 hour skinhead propanda tape/DVD?
Just a thought.
I wush I kould spel bettar!
8-D
http://visz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/woalert_read.php?id=8231&cat=dis&lang=eng
Please define a mild, mostly harmless strain of H5N1. Thanks!
Thanks for clearing that up JWB 9:26, I thought it may have been a “Pinky and the Brain” marathon.
Influentia2 – at 09:39
LOL
JWB- maybe they are right-wing pandas that are going to take over? Then it would be a two hour pro-panda program. (Sorry, couldn’t resist….:-))
The Captain 9:38
Niagra County is mentioned on this thread and there is a link on the first post that may or may not help you out. If you post there MaMa Bird may see it and help you with an answer. Worth a try. Sorry I cannot be of much help.
There are several groups who are poised to “take over” in their minds.
Only a couple have their own media resources.
Telemundo and AlJazeera come to mind.
I don’t think the neo-nazi’s have their own network yet, but I may be wrong.
Not a rumor, not flu related. But interesting.
In light of Saddam’s verdict today….this is in my ‘old’ backyard….
Holy cow!
They just changed the news site.
I have the old old up still and saved it.
It use to say PITTSBURGH — Investigators said two local college students of Middle Eastern descent ‘’ were caught trying to break into Heinz Field overnight around 2:30 a.m.
According to authorities, the two Carnegie Mellon University students tried to climb the walls around the stadium, but were caught on surveillance by two security guards who work at the field.’‘
I’m not joking!
Don’t think you’re joking. I didn’t see it, but their names are still there. Suppose media is trying to keep the (few un-law-abiding members of the)public from harrassing (the mostly)law-abiding people of middle-eastern descent here.
There was more on TV early about suspcious packages but ‘poof’ nothing on that anymore anywhere!
The names of the two students sound Indian, not Middle Eastern. Maybe that’s why they changed the article.
Just posted this, but it disappeared. grr.
I’m 100% sure that if the students had been “of Irish descent” or “of Italian descent” or whatever, their ethnicity would never have been mentioned and the incident would have been passed off as your typical college student prank… which is probably exactly what it was.
yup guys I was watching television , it was one of the History channels, all I remember is the H in the corner of the screen. and the reason I didn’t want to name names is because these people are every where and really a lot around here……but they are called the skinheads……I didn’t put this here to cause trouble I was just scared about what they said about a pandamic. sorry if I messeed up…..they even have their own paper……the guy’s name was Tom Metzger that they were interviewing……..was all down right scary..they have lots of websites that are frightening……
You can check out the hate groups that are active in your area here:
http://tolerance.org/maps/hate/index.html
And here’s a little more information on Metzger - I have to think these extremists are being watched closely at all times.
Lady biker, I can’t see where your comments would cause trouble, a little confusion maybe but not trouble. Take comfort in the fact that no matter what their “plans” are, H5N1 will make quick work of them unless they have some kind of magic bullet that will protect them in an outbreak. Hate groups will be more of a threat post pandemic, although they are not to be overlooked through out the entire event, they will sicken and die along with other people that expose themselves by being out in public.
I was surprised to see how many hate groups are in my state. I knew of Matt Hale, who has spent a lot of time trying to get his law license here. We have more problems with gangs and meth than with hate groups.
I would like to amen what Spirit in the Wind 13:10 said, and add that unless these guys have some large source of gas and maybe electricity they will have to do their macho takeover on bicycles after they recover from the flu, of course, and find something to eat, and get some water that won’t make them sick, and wait until spring so they can pedal their bikes without slipping on the snow, and find out if any of their buddies survived the flu, and… I think I’ve made my point. They are in for a whole lot more than they have any idea of.
Nova. They didn’t say. What was mentioned was that products you buy closer to home would be best simply on account of freshness, less loss of vitamins and nutrients. When discussing Organic Beef, it was mentioned that grass fed beef has a different effect on our bodies than beef fattened in the lots. When they mentioned Walmart, their concern was that in cutting costs and squeezing suppliers profit margins they will cut out American suppliers and turn to China where polluted water is a problem. Tasting shrimp, one seems to taste chlorine, which some places use to cut down bacteria. I also have heard its a good thing to take chlorella, an algea, before eating tuna. It helps you excrete mercury. The arcane things one learns accidently.If staying in place means you’ll be eating a lot of albacore white tuna might be a good thing to also stock up on the chlorella algea.
Green Mom – at 09:50
8-D
Meserole in FL – at 11:28
I’m 100% sure that if the students had been “of Irish descent” or “of Italian descent” or whatever, their ethnicity would never have been mentioned and the incident would have been passed off as your typical college student prank… which is probably exactly what it was.
If we were at war with the Irish terrorist that England had to deal with for so long, I’m sure they would mention that they were Irish. PC can get you killed. It is what it is. Islamic fundamentalism. I work with many Muslims, the are great people and great engineers. They aren’t exactly thrilled at the present status quo either. And as far as being a prank, and in light of the threats of last week against NFL games, well , what can I say? If they are that stupid, they deserve to be in jail.
Meserole in FL – at 11:28
A “college prank” is something like putting saran wrap on the toilet or mixing salt in with the sugar at the table or soap in the fountain. Breaking and entering is not a “college student prank”. It is a crime. It does not matter who does it. It is a crime.
Can we get back to bird flu?
And can someone tell me why the thought of a pandemic is less depressing than all the hatred spewed back and forth in the world?
DennisC at 15:22 and JWB at 15:00
This is not the right forum for this discussion, but I will say this: I work in a large university, my third one in 20+ years. I’ve seen worse college pranks than the one outlined above. I don’t deny that it’s a crime, by the way. I never said they should be exempt from prosecution.
By the way, I’m about as far from PC as it’s possible to be. I just don’t like racial profiling; it’s a practice that is far too likely to harm the innocent. If we can’t find the Bad Guys using the many bona fide/legal/moral tools at our disposal, we are in deep trouble.
That’s all I will say about that. Back to bird flu/pandemic. It poses a much greater threat to our well-being than anything else on the horizon right now, in my opinion.
Meserole in FL – at 17:27
Agreed.
Gardner: 15:56 And can someone tell me why the thought of a pandemic is less depressing than all the hatred spewed back and forth in the world?
Maybe it’s because bird flu doesn’t care who/what you are. You get a fair shake from it. Hate groups…not so much.
Gardener-For me pandemic is less depressing than hatred because you can’t control a pandemic-its a force of nature coming at you and you do the best you can.
Hatred could/should be preventable. I know we all have different points of view, but people should be able to get along better than they do-they just don’t.
Meserole in FL – at 17:27
I have been teaching at universities for 35 years. You should not justify someone’s actions because someone else does worst things. It does not matter a person’s background - a crime is a crime. Notice I said nothing about any race or racial profiling- that was you and others. But since you seem to want to go that direction, one’s race or someone else’s actions are not justifications for anyone’s action. Notice I also did not say anything about the “correctness” of the newspaper talking about race in the article you are complaining about. The fact remains a crime is a crime and it does not matter if other students do worst things or what the student’s sex, age, race….. I will not condone crime by anyone at my school.
The point for me is that some college students do not respect security boundaries and it would lead me to doubt that college quarantines (example: in case of a pandemic) would work.
I apologize in advance if I ruffle any feathers (pun intended) with my following comments:
First of all Lady Biker did introduce the topic of terrorism as it directly related to Bird Flu.
Secondly, I apologize for my disrespectful comment in response to yours, Lady Biker. You are well-enough established on this site I should have accepted you had reasons to be vague with the info in your posting.
Thirdly, I personally believe that bird flu and terrorism are equal threats to humanity. The powers that be in each category try to explain to whomever will listen that it is a matter of when, not if.
Lastly, I fear that the two horrors are likely to intersect in a devastating manner. If the terrorist threats are accomplished first it will so undermine the infrastructure that any hope of coping with the panflu event will be practically hopeless. If the panflu strikes first the terrorists WILL take advantage of the situation in any manner they can…especially those factions that hold little value for their own lives.
I realize this is a BF site. But this IS the rumors thread and all that might possibly impact our coping with it I think is fair to discuss.
For anyone who might want to understand where my extreme dread of terrorism is based just Google “American Hiroshima”. It might not happen this year, but it will happen. Panflu may not happen this year, but it will happen. Knowledge is power.
PS. And the “American Hiroshima” threat is only the tip of the potential terrorist events that the world should be concerned about.
This, of course, is NOT just my humble opinion…
PPS: My “all caps” comments are not meant to be shouting…I’m just not sure how to bold my words here. Sorry.
Ok, this is my last post on this subject, because it really has no place on a pandemic website.
I never said that it was “ok” for college students to commit crimes, or that they should not be prosecuted for any crimes they commit. I think they should be prosecuted; it’s a great learning experience for them. I said that they DO commit crimes and those crimes are commonly referred to as pranks and overlooked by the authorities unless they go too far… which is wholly subjective, but that’s another story altogether.
More importantly, students of ALL races and ethnicities commit these pranks/crimes, but you never see mention of their race/ethnicity if they are regular Irish-Americans or Polish-Americans or whatever. It just doesn’t happen. If they are middle-eastern students, however, ethnicity suddenly matters. Do I find this objectionable? Yes, you bet I do. (For the record, I am Irish-American - if that matters.)
Anyone who knows their history should understand how dangerous racial profiling is. In the end, it’s too often the innocents who pay the price. Ask any African American - or perhaps a Japanese-American citizen who lost everything when we interned his entire family and seized his assets during WWII. (And never returned them.) Ask a Native American how racial profiling has impacted his life and that of his family. Many people are unaware that the authorities also harassed German-Americans and Italian-Americans during WWII. Honestly, the list is endless. Racial profiling is unacceptable. It’s anti-American.
Shout out to Anon,too from Nov. 4 at 21:45:
Please enlighten us as to your “X” and “Y” parameters. Most of us would be appreciative of such a disclosure. Also, could you please expound upon your timeline when you say an “event” occurs within “weeks to months” after an XY intersection. How many “months” are you using to define the cut-off point? Thanks!
Meserole in FL: It is my understanding that those Japanese and/or Japanese Americans who were interred were the ones who refused to renounce allegiance to the emperor. That makes a big difference in my book.
I wasn’t alive then, but,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment …”President Franklin D. Roosevelt authorized the internment with Executive Order 9066, which allowed local military commanders to designate “military areas” as “exclusion zones”, from which “any or all persons may be excluded.” Twelve days later, this power was used to declare that all people of Japanese ancestry were excluded from the entire Pacific coast, including all of California and most of Oregon and Washington.”…
…”Some Japanese Americans did question their American loyalties after the government removed them and their families from their homes and held them in internment camps, although such cases were isolated incidents”…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Canadian_internment (well, the Canadian history was my something new for the day…)
Back to pandemic influenza rumors now…
Nova – at 19:25
to bold, use three ‘ s (apostrophe) before and three ‘ s after.
Geeze, I’m glad I missed this conversation!
Going out to anyone: I spotted an article yesterday, about the ministeries in China refuting the rumor of a new bird flu strain, and I believe they were talking about the “Fuijian flu named strain.” Did anyone happen to catch that? I do not recall were I read it.
I believe I saw a thread on it here.
Probably buried by now in the noise.
Yes they refuted the Fuijian strain as new and novel.
anon for this one – at 19:52 It is my understanding that those Japanese and/or Japanese Americans who were interred were the ones who refused to renounce allegiance to the emperor. That makes a big difference in my book.
nope, all people of Japanese descent were sent to the camps, iirc.
Bird Guano @ 20:11-
It probably isn’t new to them, but it is news to us.
This is a test of my new bolding knowledge per DennisC’s instruction. If I screw it up, please try to help me again. Thanks!
Bold Test
It is interesting to notice that delta-32 in the CCR5 gene (chemokine receptor 5)is known to have protected some from things like AIDS, the Black Death, smallpox and other viral agents. This gene is found in up to 20% of Europeans but is rare in Africans and Asians. It is possible that genetic background could play a part in H5N1 and its spread. Some government might make a decision to quarantine based on genetics.
Please do not try to read your thoughts into my words- I am not advocating such an action. My only point is that genetics can be important in H5N1 spread (see yesterday’s WHO report) and someone could quarantine nations or individual based on that.
DennisC-
I read that article, and found it not only interesting, but scary, as that ran through my mind too. I’m glad I’m not the only one who thought that.
Nova, nice bolding! You can also do italics by putting two apostrophes in front and behind words.
Thanks!
DennisC at 20:24
That’s interesting about the delta-32 in the CCR5 gene. Does the fact that Europeans have lived through so many plagues have anything to do with it? (Or did those plagues also strike the rest of the world?)
I was watching Dr. Brilliant’s (is that his real name??) interview on Google.org and he noted that people with HIV are actually less likely to be killed by H5N1 because their immune systems are compromised, thus a cytokine storm is not going to happen.
I also read somewhere recently (not sure if it was here on FluWiki) that people with Rh negative blood types have a higher natural immunity to H5N1 than people with positive blood types. I’m not sure how accurate that theory is, but it’s noteworthy.
Looking at the Big Picture, it’s interesting in and of itself that the various authorities (medical) are discussing natural immunities to H5N1. It’s almost as though they’re trying to find a comfortable good news-bad news viewpoint that is fit for public consumption. (Maybe I’m reading too much into it.)
Meserole in FL – at 21:08 “lived through so many plagues”
Yes, they think that the Black Death “selected” for the delta 32 geane. Those that inherit the gene from both parents seem to be immune to HIV/AIDS. They just don’t have a binding site for the virus.
As I understand it (big gap here), the Black Death hit most of the world but some villages in Europe (example Eyam in the UK) had a higher genetic concentration of the gene and were partly spared. Some trace it to Eyam’s quarantine but it seems like the village now has a higher than normal Delta 32 genes. To be “balanced” some people at Scripps lab question the result.
I am not sure what the binding site of a future H5N1 H2H will be. (So Delta 32 may not mean much to an unknown H5N1 but some other gene might) But the recent WHO claims of genetic links in Indo makes one wonder. It sure would be nice if we could just get a blood test and know what our personal risks were. If would at least effect my PPF.
Meserole in Fl-
That is an interestering comment about the Europeans having lives through so many plauges. To my understanding, Rome and Greece went through pandemics, and being that the Romans established Londiniun (present day London),many of our descendants cames from there. So all of these people, lived with pandemics.
DennisC at 21:25
Re: natural immunity
My grandmother grew up in Montreal and was born in 1906. Before she died (just 4 years ago) she told me stories of the Spanish Flu and how people would hang white sheets outside of their windows to signify either the flu or a dead body; she couldn’t remember which it was. She also noted that although the flu struck the neighborhood hard and many died, nobody in her family (14 children!) ever caught the flu. She always wondered why that was because they didn’t take any special precautions… and now I’m wondering too.
Meserole in FL – at 21:38
Do people in your (genetic) family often get the flu? Just curious - you can ignore the Q if you want. A study of such families would make someone a very good Master’s project.
But grandma might have had some things in her diet that helped — Russian or Indian families that drank a lot of tea, an Italian family that ate tons of tomatoes, a French family that had wine (kids too) that was loaded with revesteral — or family habits (hand washing?) that made a big difference.
OH yes, I don’t ever remember anyone in my family ever getting the flu. But I do get flu shots. I am part Chickasaw, but my two grand parent met at Ft. Dix tent city in 1918 during the pandemic. They were workers not patients. On my “English” side, my ansestors ran the hospitals during the Crusades and were exposed to who knows what. On the Chickasaw side my family was part of the few Chickasaw that survived the “pox” in Miss.
But the point is: I never remember dad (or even mom), (nor any uncles/aunts on my father’s side) sister or brother getting the flu. In fact I have never missed a day of work from colds or flus for 30+ years. Strep- yes, Flu - no. …. oh yes, type B- It most likely means nothing but it is interesting.
Interesting question. My husband’s grandmother was born in 1919, one of 15 children. To my knowledge, none of them got the Spanish Flu, although several were born after the Spanish Flu. I never remember grandma being sick - ever. Eight of them are still living, but I never see them. Grandma had 9 children, all still living and, again, I don’t recall ever seeing any of them sick with the flu. I’ll ask my mother-in-law about it and report back.
If genetics does in fact play a part in who is susseptable to H5 could this information be used to come up with a tx, or is that to far out into the future.
My friend was telling me that her grandmother had 8 kids, 4 boys, and 4 girls. All 4 boys caught the flu and died. Not one girl got sick. I found that in itself interesting.
correction, that should read greatgrandmother.
DennisC – at 21:44
Interesting question. I hadn’t thought about it before, but the answer is no. Both grandmothers lived to their mid-90′s. (One died just 5 months ago.) Both were alive during the 1918 flu epidemic - one in Montreal and the other in Ireland. Nobody in either of their families caught it. I can’t remember anyone in the family ever complaining of getting the flu, at least any serious type like in 1957 or 1968.
Olymom – at 21:54
I think you’re absolutely right. Both grandmothers drank tea by the gallon, and both ate very simple, unprocessed, wholesome food. Also, both liked a tipple now and again - scotch or sherry - and made no apologies for it. Both had all of their marbles till the day they died. I guess I could learn a lesson from them - and maybe throw away the Hostess cupcakes? (Nah… forget it!)
cottontop – at 22:27
All of the boys caught it and died, but the girls were apparently immune? Add that piece of info to the family cluster situation in Indonesia and it makes you wonder just how random the attack rate really is, doesn’t it? Clearly we’re missing some important pieces of the influenza/pandemic puzzle. Maybe school children in 100+ years will laugh about our lack of understanding of the flu and our amateur policies/preventions - and equate them to wearing a necklace of garlic to ward off the plague?
I am not sure if an “immunity” from H1N1 (Spanish) flu would help against H5N1. They do have the same “N” but that is mostly the virus “release” mechanism. The “H” is more about the binding to cells in humans. That is part of the problem. There really hasn’t been much “selection” of people with H5 resistance. A lot of the seasonal flu is an H1 type flu and most of our vaccines have one of those types “covered”.
However, if there are genetic modifications that shield people from AIDS, smallpox, Black death, and perhaps H1N1 flu types then perhaps (just perhaps) there will be some modification that would help against H5N1. However, most of the genetic modification is due to changes in the binding sites. So if you didn’t have the modification you would have binding sites for the virus and I don’t know how you could remove the binding sites. I think the question would be best addressed by NS1 (are you out there tonight?)
Meserole in FL-
If you do throw away those cupcakes, I’ll take them!
My great grandmother was born in 1899. I don’t recall her sharing any memories about the pandemic in 1918, like she did with the Great Depression. However I don’t recall her ever being sick either. She lived to be 94. She had a simple diet, one cup of coffee in the morning, and no “drink”, and did not smoke. I don’t recall any of her syblings having died. She was of Dutch descent.
Dennis C: Even if “they” were to quarantine based on genetics, I would not feel any much safer in a room where 80% of people were susceptible as opposed to being in a room where 100% of the people were susceptible.
My grandfather and his whole family were living in Philadelphia during the “Spanish Flu”-the only member who got the flu was an in-law. All of the family were recent Italian immigrants including the young man that died but he was the only non-blood related family member. My grandfather dug mass graves at the Catholic cemetary and even with this exposure, he never caught influenza. My dad, who is in his mid-eighties has never had flu and the one time I innoculated him with flu vaccine, I nearly killed him. He had a terrible reaction (he is not allergic to eggs) and swears that the vaccine is created to kill off the old folks and save social security money…I didn’t say he wasn’t paranoid.
My parents were European. Were young adults during the flu of 1918. Never heard a word about it. Father and mother were the picture of good health as I am also and my silblings. Of all the family I was the sickly one, who came down with this ,that ,and the other thing but with resiliance to spring back quickly. Kept their wits into advanced old age looking and behaving at least 20 years younger than their chronological age. My oldest sibling, near 90 is talking about driving around the entire country, sort of a farewell tour if he can persuade someone to be his companion. (not volunteering myself)
They ate exactly whatever they wanted, fat, bacon by the carload. The only restriction in their diets was sugar. It was there but no soda, little in the way of sweets outside of fruits.
She was of Dutch descent -like, ;-) the ones who know the good citizens because they were out washing their front stoops every morning, cottontop?
crfullmoon- you know it!
Nann- please elabrate on your comment about the announcement from the U.S. government concerning bird flu.
anon for this one – at 19:52 It is my understanding that those Japanese and/or Japanese Americans who were interred were the ones who refused to renounce allegiance to the emperor.
Your understanding is incorrect. Executive Order 9066 authorized internment of those with “foreign enemy ancestry.” No mention was made of allegiance to the emperor.
I note today that 60,000 Americans in Hong Kong have been warned to stockpile for three months in case of pandemic flu.
Nann posted this on the moderators’ thread:
“Has anyone here, heard that the government is going to be revealing new information after today ( election day )..? I was called last night by a relative who is a doctor, as well as a sisiter in law who works the ICU at a local hospital, saying such a thing is going to happen. They were all warned yesterday. The USA Govt. does not want to say this info before voting day. I was warned by the doctor / relative to start preparing Now…and to say nothing about this as well, but thought you might all want to know.”
One would like to think that Americans in America might be at least as well informed as Americans in Hong Kong. Maybe tomorrow ;-). Just in case such a thing might actually happen, I pushed two last Internet orders to the top of the agenda today.
the only funny thing about nann’s posted rumor that comes to my mind is, doctors and nurses in hospitals in general don’t seem to have been all that informed about pandemic influenza in the past — it seems like most hospitals are only just now getting up a little bit to speed, and certainly they aren’t holding big meetings with their employees. I could be wrong. And maybe in certain areas hospitals are more prepared. Would love to hear more on this, nann, or anyone!
All US consulates were sent a cable to prep for 3 months. Rest of American public will be informed of new “3-week” prepping recommendations after voting is over…so on Wednesday.
Also, Niman commented that 3 changes have been noted on newest sequences released by China. All 3 are at or near the “binding domain”, possibly indicating an increased affinity for human cells, increasing ability to go H-H.
Many countries jumping onboard now with increased possibilities that the pandemic could start this season.
TIGal, where did you hear that the American public will be told to prep for 3 weeks (if there’s a link I’d love to copy that info out to some people)? Also, did all US consulates get the 3-month prepping cable, or just those in HK & Macau?
Hi TreasureIslandGal – at 11:29
I just sent an email to a friend at a US embassy overseas who is their medical officer and am waiting to hear back. Where did you hear about this cable?
It has been reported through numerous news outlets already. The CE site lists a bunch of them. At that site it also mentions that the info will go out to the rest of america, but they are waiting until after elections are over. I saw no news clip though, so that is why it is in teh “rumors” section. Go to this site to view the actual cable sent. In the cable itself they even say it went out to everyone:
Thanks for the cable - and yep, looks like everyone will be getting it. I can’t imagine how overwhelming it would be to get something like that out of the blue and have to figure out how to do it quickly. It took me a long time to get 3 months of supplies put together.
Hope they come out with the 3-week supply warning to America a lot more strongly than did with the 3-day and 2-week ones - which most people apparently have chosen to ignore (my own relatives included).
JR @ 12:20 — do you mean 3-week supply warning to Americans or a 3 month warning?
Good enough for the embassy-dwellers, it’s good enough for the American public… public would like to feed their kids for more than 3 weeks, too…
TreasureIslandGal at 11:29 said is was a 3-week supply warning. However, she heard about this at CE so it’s to be considered just a rumor at this point.
Thanks Commonground….I couldn’t get back over here fast enough with the snippet to post before you did — I’m watching my pressure canner while reading the threads and had to go change the heat level! :-)
JR – at 12:42
TreasureIslandGal at 11:29 said is was a 3-week supply warning. However, she heard about this at CE so it’s to be considered just a rumor at this point.
Not just a rumor.
There is a URL at the CE discussion.
Bird Guano, after a lot of searching I still don’t see it. Can you let me know which discussion topic to look at? Thanks.
Well, that cable sure sounds like the starting gun to me!
To anybody that hasn’t prepped yet, GOOD LUCK!
JR… it is a 3-month warning, not 3-week. Sorry, I typed wrong! It actually states to prepare for 12 weeks, which is the same as 3 months.
I CALLED THE CDC to ask very casually if they knew anything about the new directive and whether the suggested prep-time will be increased for Americans at home here as well. The guy I spoke with sounded a bit suprised/alarmed at the 3-month cable I told him about. He put me on hold while he could go check on that. I was on hold for a while then he came back and told me to “check the Pandemic.gov site for the most up to date info”. I told him that I did just check that, and that is why I was calling, because it was still only saying to prep for 2 weeks. So I asked “which should it really be, the 3-months they are telling our consulates or the 2 weeks they are telling Americans here at home? -that’s a big difference afterall.”
He agreed and asked if he could put me on hold again. He was gone even longer this 2nd time I was put on hold. When he came back on the phone, he took a deep breath and again said, as if directed “the most recent guidance will be found on the pandemic.gov site. That site should be the one you check for all the most recent up to date information.” He then asked me “is that ok?” -like as if he was saying “was that a good enough answer for you right now?”
I laughed and said, “so, I should keep checking back at it then huh?” -and he said “yes”, in a relieved manner, probably glad I didn’t try to argue with him or make him say something he was not authorized to divulge…yet.
Dmitry Lvov, the director of virology reasarch @ the Russian Acadamy of Medical Sciences says that one amino acid replacement in the genome remains to make the virus transferable from human to human…. I’m bad at this… http://en.rian.ru/russia/20060307/439893897.html
Wow, TIGal, it sounds like you really caught that guy off guard. I wonder whether he knows something’s up but didn’t expect to be fielding questions about it so soon - or if he really didn’t know about the cable going out until you told him. Hmmm.
Anyway, I want to make sure I’ve got this whole thing straight. After the election, it will also be announced to the American public that they must put away 3 months of supplies. Is that right? Can you point me to where this was discussed at CE? I’ve looked for awhile now - but it must not be in an obvious place or else I just missed it somehow. If this is true, I will be absolutely stunned.
hahaha!TIG has got him all flustered!Hmmm is that good or bad?Does’nt want to say much does he?
hahaha!TIG has got him all flustered!Hmmm is that good or bad?Does’nt want to say much does he?
This thread has suddenly gotten very long (I just don’t understand why?!?), so closing and continuing it here
It’s rumored that there are no posts to copy over. ;-)
He’s probably thinking, “shoot, I haven’t even started on the two-week preps”
OK. Let’s just think this through a little. IF they were to announce this after the elections, (after today), what would be the likely events?
I’m guessing late Friday for the announcement. We should see extra trucks at the big box stores this week prior to the GET YOUR STUFF NOW weekend crush. Employees would be asked to come in on what would have been their days/time off.
So, that said, does anybody here know any managers at the big box stores? Any unusall schedules for this weekend?