Continued from here.
Last post from previous thread:
Anonymouse bean – at 15:04 \\ I am a regular here on the FluWiki, but changed my name for this one.
I was watering my beans over my lunch break, thinking about BF, and out of the blue the word “Bristol” popped into my head. Probably not anything, I’m not psychic. But there you go, take it however you will. Now back to work.
I know this is nothing but it still creeps me out when it happens….my three year old asks me when he sees a group of people together like standing in a line for a movie or milling around watching a baseball game at a park “Mommy is the storm coming” We live in the NW where the only weather is Misty or Sunny so he doesn’t have a history of storms. I don’t know why but it really creeps me out. No wonder they put little kids in scary movies.
My mom read palms-she was considered very good. She tried to train me and my brothers to trust our intuition but I never liked it and wasn’t that good anyway. I wanted to be American-she was eastern european. I do believe in some people having a gift to see future events but I don’t have it.
katherine @ 17:03
I’ve heard that very small children are more in touch with other types of life and it is something that many people grow out of.
My mom was a tarot card reader and was very good at it.
Katharine: did your son see any of the Katrina coverage, even by accident? If so, maybe he associates crowds with ‘storm coming’. As a child I thought Viet Nam meant some event that involved skinny people and helicopters.
kc_quiet “As a child I thought Viet Nam meant some event that involved skinny people and helicopters.” that’s really funny
he did see katrina coverage as we watch the news every night but then he was 2 years old. and he has only started doing this in the last 6 weeks. It reminds me of a dog I used to have. The dog would stare into closets and growl. It was unnerving.
I mom also thought little kids were the most in touch with intuition. She thought 4 year old girls were the best to train.
I saw a someone when I was 30 who told me my future-Sylvia Brown’s son Chris Dufrense. 10 years later when I listen to the tape I find that he was approx 70% correct. I do believe some people can see things the rest of us can’t.
Dreams - sleeping: My cousin jumping through a stained glass window, ocurred in the middle of the night. He was stabbed to death in the early morning hours of that same night. My grandfather, who died before i was born, came to me and talked to me about family and continuity and told me to give a message to my father that a cousin in California was OK. The cousin, whom my father raised and loved like a daughter, had been in a powerful earthquake in the early morning hours following the dream. We were unable to reach her for days. The dream calmed my father immensely. More recently, there is a huge fire, involving buildings and a lot of land. My children are cut off from me. I am being held back from entering the blaze, but I know I can lead them out if I can find them. The smoke is thick, I will not be able to see them. The flames are roaring. I won’t hear their cries. I break away from the fireman and make a beeline towards the first child. He is far away. I can only sense him, and call out to him in my mind “Wait! Wait! I’m coming. Think to me so I can find you. Think me hard, don’t lose focus”. I find both children and lead them out. Their lungs have been scorched. Their bodies are so hot. I have to cool them down. The younger one is choking, trying to gulp the air in. I have to help him breathe. Why can’t I make it so he can breathe? This is a dream, isn’t it? I wake up.
waking: My best friends son in helicopters surrounded by dollar signs in Iraq, and his safe return to home. She is reassured. After the dream, he is given orders of guarding money shipments in helicopters.
The streets very quiet. The skies quiet too. peace and calm, until an unwanted knock on the door, a request for my assistance. “He’s so sick. He’s dying. Help him, please.” I want to, but I have to say no. I cannot risk bringing the infection home to the children. I am the only adult they have. My neighbor is absolutely shocked when I, a person they always counted on, refuse to help at what is surely their greatest time of need.
anonism: Your dream about your children made the hair on my arms stand on end. That is a fear like no other. Thanks for your contributions. May they be the images of your nightmares and never your reality.
bump for BB.
bump
you are the bump queen (king?) I see right now Hurricane! ;) your name all over the forum topic page I think I remember you are in my time zone…hope you get some rest soon
you are the bump queen (king?) I see right now Hurricane! ;) your name all over the forum topic page I think I remember you are in my time zone…hope you get some rest soon
sorry for double post and, after reading thread especially anonisms moving, sobering waking dream, for disrupting the “tone”…ie my cheery tone to HA RN is bizarre after that, especially twice. Chilling thoughts anonism.
jplanner -Right the first time. Just doing my share to help out. I also hate it when the site bogs down. Off to get some ugly sleep. Until tomorrow. gina
I once had a moment.. just as I awoke on the morning of a big trip out of state.
I don’t remember what it was - only that I woke up hearing a woman’s name. I can’t recall it now - funny - but let’s jsut say it was Clare.
So here I was sitting next to my wife (of 1 year at the time) with this name echoing in my head (oddly, a lot like they do in movies when someone wakes up from a dream).
Fast-forward 3 days later and the Uncle I’m visiting has to go to his dance class up in the mountains (he lived in Southern NM) so I tag along to check out the mountain town. He drops me off at a local shopping area and he points out the dance school so I can meet him in an hour.
So I putter around and an hour later I walk into the waiting area to wait for my Uncle… and then I see them. These shoes. - out of the blue - ALL I can think & hear in my head is, “Clare”.
It was kinda freaky. My heart starts racing, and I am shocked because this has only happened once (a very trivial story about a coke bottle…)
So I go outside and wait for my Uncle. When he comes out, he introduces me to a young woman he’s been courting (despite her engagement to bruiser of a man).
And yes, her name was “Clare”.
Anonymous Bean: Bristol? I think there is a Bristol, England… and I know there is a Bristol, CT and Bristol, VT….wonder if there are anymore Bristol’s in the world?
It was Bristol, England without a doubt. I had to go look to see where Bristol, England is located afterwards. Interesting to say the least.
Please do not read more into this than simply that this popped into my mind. I live in the U.S. and thought it odd for me to all of a sudden think “Bristol”.
This thread is amusing to me mostly, but I do hold it open in my mind that there are things that we do not understand. I am of a science background and want to see proof. But I am also a person of faith, and believe according to faith. So, I hold such things as are discussed in this thread up for examination, and look at them with a questioning mind.
In all likelyhood, while I was watering my beans, letting my mind wander, it just wandered down the corridor labeled “Bristol” and thought “huh, why am I here, that’s odd”. Probably nothing more, nothing less.
There is a Bristol, PA. During the late fifties/early sixties there was a popular dance called the Bristol Stomp which originated in Bristol, PA.
also a Bristol in Va and 1 in Tenn.
Bristol, Connecticut, United States
Bristol, United Kingdom
Bristol, Florida, United States
Bristol, Georgia, United States
Bristol, Illinois, United States
Bristol, Indiana, United States
Bristol, Maine, United States
Bristol, New Hampshire, United States
Bristol, Pennsylvania, United States
Bristol, Rhode Island, United States
Bristol, South Dakota, United States
Bristol, Tennessee, United States
Bristol, Virginia, United States
Bristol, Vermont, United States
Bristol, Wisconsin, United States
Bristol, West Virginia, United States
bump
After the London subway bombings, I kept thinking of Leeds castle, Every day, Leeds castle, and eventually the bombers were proved to come from Leeds. I had been to Leeds Castle a number of times, (one of my favorite castles) but never to Leeds. After they were identified, my thoughts of the words Leeds castle ceased.
FYI-
Juliet (?) on the fox show dayside, right now, is coming back after the break to discuss her dreams that come true. I thought it might be interesting because they are going to have someone on to discuss what our dreams mean. Could be nothing but might be interesting.
Ok, it just finished (cut short by breaking news). The most interesting thing was that Juliet said that she has had some strange coincidences from her dreams (i.e. dreamt her BF was invited to the Geraldo show, next day gets a call from the show to be on). The author cynthia richmond said that there have been some interesting studies showing that @ 12% of people have dreams that come true - some are finding lost things, etc., but most are warnings of some sort. Like that was a surprise to all of us! Here’s a link to her book:
If you google her name there is also an ebook version. Just thought you might be interested.
Bristol International Airport
Bristol University
Bristol-Myers Squibb (pharmaceutical)
I can handle pandemic dreams, no problem. What is disturbing me at the moment is that I am forty-something and quite conservative and suddenly I am dreaming about Johnny Depp.
there are worse things to dream about! ;)
I just don’t understand it. I’ve never watched his movies. I’ve never understood people’s (women’s) fascination with him. I think he is anti-American. And yet he visits me in my dreams now!!! Yes, I guess I could be dreaming about Michael Moore instead… so thank goodness it is Johnny.
You`ve seen too many Pirates ads, perhaps?
I`d rather dream about Orlando Bloom, but like him better as a blond with braids…Yummy elf…lol.
I don`t really remember my dreams, just sometimes wake up with a sense of dread or urgency to do SOMETHING.
Here’s a weird one…never had repetetive experience like this before, but the number 103 is everywhere, dream, sales slips, clock (no power blink), cable box (stuck there repeatedly flashing). So, I decided to take this a little seriously and file October 3rd and January 3rd as potential dates of importance.
anonism – at 16:14
I thought I was the only one! Actually, both my husband and I have “1011″ keep coming up. Our friend’s father, who was sick and passed away last summer, kept mentioning Nov. 19th. This from a very died in the wool new englander (and church going man). of course, no further explanation - just the date (no year).
preppiechick - 4 dates filed now - 10/3, 01/03, 10/11, 11/19. Glad this strangeness isn’t just mine…
Johnny Depp isn’t anti-American. Critical of positions the American government takes, but not anti-American.
karina – at 21:16
Is that why he moved to France?
Here’s a choice Depp quote— America is . . . like a dumb puppy that has big teeth that can bite and hurt you, aggressive.
Another quote said he wanted his children to see America as . . . a broken toy that they should explore, get the feel of, then get out.
Sounds like he doesn’t exactly plan on raising a brood of patriots.
Oh Anonymous, isn’t that disappointing about Depp, I hate to hear any wealthy (not always considered successful) American speak with such disregard about our precious land, just makes me sad & not want to give them any more of my money or time. Not getting political, just wondering….he’s relatively young isn’t he? It seems that as we grow older sometimes we get more respectful of what we say about America and we get more patriotic. Maybe there will be changes of heart with many of our celebs that are so vocal.
Oooh, I had a pandemic dream last night, the first in a long while (I used to have so many I couldn’t sleep well, but I don’t remember what they were.)
I’m not the Bible type, but I’m familiar with the story of Joseph interpreting Pharoh’s dreams. Mine was similar:
I was sorting chicks in a large, industrial henhouse. I had three bowls to fill. I reached down and picked up a chick and put it in the first bowl. It was large and fluffy. I reached down again, and put a chick in the second bowl. It was sick and starved looking. There was still space in the third bowl. I reached down again, but then looked around confused. There were no more chicks in the henhouse. It, and the bowl, were empty.
Funny how we can read the same thing and interpret it differently. I see anger at America and its policies, (I feel the same way, and I am very patriotic). Sometimes people get so angry because they care so much. But we must agree to disagree, because otherwise we could descend into political discussion which is not allowed on the list.
Northstar - the hairs on my arms are still standing but the goosebumps are fading. That’s a helluva dream. I’m going to be thinking about it and the symbolism, both subtle and obvious, involved today.
Lisa in Southern Maine — I usually forget my dreams but this one woke me with its impact and remained crystal clear. Deceptively short and simple as it was, I was wondering if it “got” anybody the way it “got” me. Yeah, it seems to be working on many different levels and it will be haunting me all day, too.
Northstar, do you ever get a funny kind of feeling to your dreams when they seem to be more “prophetic”?
My prophetic dreams are intrusive “waking” ones and are almost completely literal. I see bits and snatches almost as if I were there. (For example, I saw men’s legs with a german shepherd walking over rubble, (as if I were he, looking down) along with the auditory phrase “corpse dogs” repeatedly the week before the OK. City bombing. That, and other disturbing images that made sense only in retrospect.) I just call them “flashes.”
My dreams are just that — dreams — but the urgency of some of them tell me to pay attention. I think it’s my subconcious putting together patterns out of the “noise” and making sure I notice.
Anonymouse bean@15:04 - Bristol Bay, Alaska…
Johnny Depp has a house in France because he can! Jennifer Aniston lived in Greece. Anjolina Jolie lives in Africa. Many American celebrities, oil company executives, politicians, Amway leadership and wealthy Christian preachers, maintain homes in other parts of the world. Because it’s fabulous and I wish I could.
Critical examination of government and politics does not mean ‘anti-American’. In fact, it defines the origins of America and original patriotism. The current government was founded on critiscm of leadership and civil disobedience, in the interest of ‘freedom’. A “patriot” was someone who disapproved of the leadership and openly said so.
When “it” finally happens (and it will happen)-the mushroom cloud over Tel Aviv and/or New York City, then we will see who really wants to defend this civilization. It is not about patriotism. It is about the fight of our lives in a disintegrating environment of tumult and overpopulation. It is about survival.
Emotional, whining mindgames are sooo late 20th century.
glo – at 22:22
There is a difference between being critical of leadership/policies and being anti-American. I think it is obvious where Johnny Depp stands.
Yes, people can choose to live in other countries if they want to and can afford to. I’m all for people like Johnny Depp and Madonna choosing to move somewhere else. And as soon as they decide to raise their kids in foreign countries (unless they are military or other public service people), I am free to start wondering why they don’t want their kids to be American.
Unfortunately, a lot of people today subscribe to this idea that to be “sophisticated” and to be “with it” you have to hold 2 opinions: 1) You don’t believe in mainnstream organized religion. (Apparently it’s cool to say you are an atheist today. In my day you wouldn’t be caught dead believing or saying such a thing…not even on college campus.) 2) America is stupid and selfish and possibly evil. You don’t love and respect your country more any other. I think is abnormal for people to not love their home country more than any other. But young people today learn that it’s cool to bash the US and American culture regardless of who is in the White House.
I still think it doesn’t have a thing to do with politics or some deliberate choice to raise a child in a foreign environment. I risk being offensive here and that’s not my intention, but I just don’t think it’s that deep or that they make choices like that. I think it has everything to do with lifestyle and luxurious existence that one can afford.
a lot of people subscribe to this idea that to be “sophisticated” and to be “with it” you 1) don’t believe in mainnstream organized religion, and 2) America is stupid and selfish and possibly evil.”
I really think differently on that - my impression is that it’s the complete opposite! Since 9/11, more people claim to be Christian than ever before. I think people are feeling pressured to do just that, in order to gain acceptance and social approval, whether they truly have strong Christian beliefs or not. And it seems to me that more people than ever express fervent “patiotism”.
It is NOT at all cool to say you are an atheist - it gets you in trouble with friends, neighbors, coworkers and bosses. That was allowed in the 70s and 80s. Not anymore. I feel sad in saying that we’ve all become astonishingly intolerant and unaccepting.
A long-time aquaintence scolded me saying, “liberal is a bad word in this house!” This from a woman who raised four children and got a college degree on 15 years of welfare and public assistance programs. I was shocked, not having heard her speak that way before, and wondered what they think a liberal is.
It is NOT at all cool to say you are an atheist - it gets you in trouble with friends, neighbors, coworkers and bosses. That was allowed in the 70s and 80s. Not anymore. I feel sad in saying that we’ve all become astonishingly intolerant and unaccepting.
I grew up in the 70s and 80s (college 82–86) and until recently thankfully heard of only one family that claimed to be atheists. (And they were a strange family not really trying to be mainstream in any way.) I don’t know where you were living during that time where that was as common as (or even more common than) it is now. I’ve noticed that on the MySpace and similar type places young people think it is cool apparently to claim they are atheist.
Tolerance/acceptance is overrated. I don’t believe in beating people up or berating people that I disagree with, but at my age thank goodness I no longer think I must accept/tolerate every opinion and lifestyle choice that anyone makes as equally valid. It’s a free country, so sure people are free to spout nonsense if they want to, but I am free to recognize it as such when I hear it. And if a person wants to be so disrespectful to thousands of years of civilization as to think that a belief in a higher power is somehow beneath them, then that tell me what I need to know about that kind of person.
Please stay on topic. Thank You
Sorry to get off topic for a moment but I had to share this funny dream with everyone. First let me tell you I have started on the smokers patch to help wean me off smokes so WTSHTF I wont go ballistic. Smokers patches create some very bizzare and detailed dreams. Last night I dreamt I was Vice President of the US.
It was my first night in the new home. It was magnificent with gilded oppulant parlors, staterooms, Art Galleries and royal furnishings. At 3:00 AM a cleaning crew of 12 came to do maid service and running vacumms, radios and talking in my bedroom. I asked them why they cleaned at night instead of the day. They replied “Labor is cheaper at night than during the day”. I yelled saying “how am I supposed to get any work done tomorrow if they keep me up all night”. The crew laughed and said the “VP doesn’t do anything anyway so sleep till noon”! I then grabbed my pillow and slept in the closet.
Just a reminder that the Wiki is not a place for religious or political discussions. There are plenty of other places on the Web for those.
Northstar - if you’re around, I’d like to take this dream thread back to it’s origin, away from Johhny Depp(!)(He has too much anyway. He doesn’t need this thread too!) and ask you what you think of the meaning/symbolism of your dream now that you’ve had a couple days to process it. Hope to hear from you.
Hi Lisa, I think it was, foremost, a timeline — since the dream seemed to be modelled on the Biblical story, I think it means a year of plenty (now), a year of famine and sickness, and ominously, a third year in which there is nothing.
The industrial henhouse represents our modern society in which people are crowded together like so many chicks. I believe this arises from how, when I hear about how a flock of 10,000 chickens can sicken and die overnight from this flu, I think: “why should we be any different? This flu can exist asymptomatically in wild birds. It doesn’t need us… or chickens.”
The chicks can also alternatively represent children… the CFR for children (87%?) is something that I have literally been avoiding looking at… I always glance away when I come to it. It’s too much to handle… and I think my mind is saying, “you _must_ look at this.” An 87% CFR means a world without children… without MY children.
I have three children, so that’s another meaning for the 3 bowls I have to fill. I am being reminded that if we must last a year on the food I’ve put by, we will survive it barely starving, and after that… we will have nothing. That’s a powerful message for me.
My take-away message from this dream is that the transition will happen with terrifying suddenness, that there will be a year of tremendous deprivation, and the human toll will be terrible and complete.
bump
Well, since we are somewhere out in the Twighlight Zone with this thread, here is my addition.
When I was a child, I had a near death experience. I did the whole go down the tunnel bit, and was welcomed at the end by a whole bunch of people I didn’t recognise but knew that I loved all at the same time. It was warm, and safe, and joyous. I didn’t want to go back, but they insisted, saying it wasn’t my time, and there were things I had to do. That there was something coming, and many would die, and that there was something I had to add to the future. I was shown an image of my two children (who I did go on to have) and grudgingly agreed to go back for them. There was more but the memory is a bit fuzzy and it was many years ago.
I know its a strange one, but I have spent my whole life since with a ‘knowing’ and a feeling of impending disaster, and yet never got into researching, worrying about possible threats or anything like that, unlike the feeling I have had associated with the H5N1 threat. Yet I have not been a doom and gloom merchant either, and I dont fear death. I wish I didn’t have this memory, but even as a child I wrote this experience down, and I still have the paper. I hope it was the result of an over active imagination and an unusual experience. It might have been around the time of the 68 pandemic, so could have been something associated with news or reports I had seen operating at a deeply subconsious level. In any event, I learn all I can about this virus, symptoms, and how to help others to survive it - it even led my career down a scientific and medically related path - but I am not, and have never been a ‘prepper’ over anything else.
Sorry for not using a handle in the post above - I dont post so am unrelated to other anonymouses on this board!
Northstar - thanks for that most powerful interpretation. A timeline…I wrangled with the symbols in your dream and came up with many things, but not one was a timeline. Now it makes perfect sense though. I do believe that only the dreamer can accurately interpret their dream, because symbolism is such a personal experience. Your take-away message is reinforcement for me to keep working on preps. Thank you.
anon at 14:30 - well…it doesn’t sound like overactive imagination. Near-death experiences weren’t well-known in the 60s. Seems unlikely that as a child you’d have thought to fabricate such an experience, even with a vivid imagination. And you saw your children…that add to the reality of the experience. Thanks for posting this.
anon at 13:40 - Thanks from me as well. I am glad the anonimity of the internet lets us tell these “crazy” stories that otherwise we’d never dare to express. With them, I think we get a pipeline to the animus mundi.
last night dreamt that I was cooking over a sterno stove. I would never do that unless I was out of all my other options.
Last nite I woke up between dreams. I didn’t consider this an avian flu dream. I was wandering down a road that I had traveled in Iceland looking at the swans. The person I was walking with said something about politician hand in hand and hanky panky. That is all. The swans were all fine… Today I was reading a rock and roll magazine and saw a picture of Bjork with her stuffed swan around her neck. I think my dreams always say something, and this is all it was, I was going to see a photo of Bjork.
For the person who dreamed about Bristol. One of the first suspicious packages they detonated after the arrests was from ‘Bristol, England. They said it was innocuous.Talking of the current situation in England.
Not a dream, more of an epiphany this morning on the train.
For some odd reason, I have been somewhat mentally obsessed for months with the number”950″. Couldn’t figure out why that number was so important. Today a thought hit me like a ton of bricks…..our township population is 36,000. If panflu killed 950 of our residents, it would be an overall death rate of 2.64%-well within the capability of H5N1. If the attack rate is 30%-that means a CFR of 7.92%. Gak,…………….
This may mean absolutely nothing at all-nadda- maybe I’ll win $950 soon somehow. But, it doesn’t feel that way to me…….
You might want to play the Daily 3 with that number. However, if you do, an interesting phenomena will more than likley occour. The number will not be picked until a week or so after you finally give up playing.
Hillbilly Bill – at 10:03 ROFL! Murphy’s Law…..
Grace. Lets hope it is the ninth day of the fifth month in the year 3000.
I am going to add my story to this thread. It is one I do not often share. I am not a seer or overly religious. But in my lifetime, I have had a number of dreams of significance. This is the most troubling. I had a dream in April 2001. Actually, it was more of a vision than a dream. It was a long dream which came in three distinct parts. I was walking down a road toward my home from the direction of a small country church. I had not been to church, but to visit someone who lived nearby. It was a beautiful day. (I am leaving out the first part. It was fulfilled with six hours when a fire burned a house on our property) I stopped and entered a store which was located high on a hill. In the center of the store were large boxes wrapped in brown paper. They were stacked in groups of threes. I didn’t associate them with coffins then, but would later as all were about six feet long and the right size and shape. There were displays around the wall. The floor of the store was plank, well worn, but not unsafe. I checked out. The man at the check out counter asked me why I did not believe in prayer in school. I explained my reasons. He pulled a business card from a holder. The card was black imprinted with an eagle. The lettering was gold. He took it from an unusual holder which had gold teeth alternating from side to side. I started back in same direction from which I came. Suddenly off to my left I heard a loud noise. There above a low ridge line was water. It stood on top of the hills…I would guess at least 60 feet. Below it was what was left of a forest only the trees were bare and stood like telephone poles. Then I heard another noise. It was the motor on a boat. Suddenly, I was overtop of the boat. Inside were two women dressed in white shorts. There was a red and white flag flying on the back. It was a perfect day. I was filled with joy. I looked and the shore line was getting smaller. I was then back on the road. I heard the boat motor die. I looked toward the hill and saw it sank beneath the water. I stood in amazement; that boat must be able to rise again, but it didn’t. (Within weeks two of my best friends were killed in an accident.) Then suddenly the bright sunshine turned to twilight…The road ahead of me was no longer paved. It was a dirt road with deep ruts. I have always believed the ruts represented the future…and have carried a feeling of unease about the economic future of the country ever since. So, I am prepping. I do not know if it is for the bird flu, a terrorist attack, a war, or something not yet identified.. I still do not understand the segment inside the store. I do not believe the dream called me to support prayer in the school, or warned me of consequences if I did not.
kycreeker, Thanks for your insight, too. I think these are fascinating. Here’s two recent ones from me. One is gory so don’t read on if you are sensitive. We were looking at a old rural farmhouse to buy (unfortunately, we can’t) so I think that’s where the sleep dream comes from.
Waking: We are coming back into our house from being elsewhere. We are scared to death. My books, my beautiful books are trashed all over the floor, upstairs and down. (We have an extensive library.) I am appalled, but we walk right over them. We have no time to pick them up, and I say out loud, that I want it to remain looking like it has been looted already. We are looking for food I’ve hidden. Most is gone, but find some, and eat it like we are starving, though it’s not very good.
Sleep dream: My family is all in a car, at night, driving back roads. It is not our usual car. We are trying to get to our property. We are scared out of our minds. Finally we are within a few miles of our property, but there is a military blockade. Well, it is at least two unshaven kids in sloppy military uniforms with guns. They look really, really young, raw recruits that have been just left there on their own. There are piles of things on the edges of the road — furniture, cast-off things from people turned back, and some valuable items, that I take to have been bribes. We don’t have anything to bribe with. We are stopped at gunpoint and my husband rolls down the window. A young blond man with a rifle talks to us. The road is closed. We beg and plead, we tell him that we have a house two miles away, that we are not refugees. He eyeballs our stuff in the car and obviously doesn’t believe us, but looks unsure. We continue to argue and plead, and as he’s refusing again, my husband, midsentence, raises a gun he had hidden under his thigh and as if in a dream (I know, it _is_ a dream!) shoots the guy point-blank under the chin. He drops, the children scream. We blow through the blockade and after a few moments I hear automatic gunfire. As we tear away I am stunned and horrified and have a profound sense of unreality. I think that if this is over in three weeks, my husband will be in prison for murder and so will I and that we must have overreacted, like those doctors suspected of euthanizing patients after Katrina. But another part of me knows that the situation is so much desperate than that. My husband stares straight ahead and drives. The children are crying. We don’t say anything.
Cheez, I’m glad this forum is anonymous. I can’t stand and will not watch violent movies so these dreams are really disturbing to me.
Northstar - Your dreams were very disturbing to me too! Both are so chillingly reflective of what worries many of us. I hope you’ve been able to shed any lingering dream-hooror/dread since having these.
No such luck. During the day I’m really not all that worried; I’d call myself a cuke. (s) I just go about doing my daily stuff and making ordinary plans for the future like remodelling the kitchen, etc. But at night, my subconscious taps my shoulder and lets me know in a horrifyingly graphic way that there’s something I’m concerned about.
Northstar-please continue to share your possible glimpses into your and our future, but do not try to see too much. It is not worth it. What will be, will be as the old saying goes.
Funny thing is, I didn’t have food in that hiding place before… but I do now. A lot more is in there than in what I saw — there was just a can of beans, and oatmeal we ate dry. Gotta remember to put in a can opener — that was in there, too.
I have learned my lesson the hard way about seeing too much. For a friend, I predicted I saw a couple on a sad journey, perhaps to a funeral… three days later, I _was_ one of that sad couple, dropping our toddler off at that friend’s house at 3:00 in the morning, on the way to the hospital as I miscarried my second child. This “gift” has very sharp edges.
When we looked at that farmhouse, I felt a deep peace and when I “saw” glimpses after that, it was only me and one of my children, ever. Never my beloved husband or my other two children. Now that it looks like we can’t get that farmhouse, I don’t get glimpses of anything far. This troubles me very deeply.
Sorry, just blathering. I can’t even discuss it with my dear dh so it wears at me.
Northstar: Well, the “dirty little secret” in life that most people ignore is that there are very few happy endings. So just be happy now. Your gift puts you near the center of things. Precognition to my mind proves the Theory of Relativity in which all events that “ever were, are now, and will be” are happening simultaneously, eternally.
I do not have children.
Last night I dreamt that three children were with me - I was responsible for them - I had assumed responsiblity for them. I barely knew them. We had somehow found and walked into a “shelter” of some sort. I was relieved to see there were fat children swimming in an early entrance room - a rather normal American scene. Not knowing where to go, we kept walking into/through the big building with many people until we came to a room with uniformed, armed personnel which had some windows to view other spaces. I gently turned the children around and walked back out of that room instinctively knowing that we should not be there. The three children with me were skinny and tired and hungry. I somehow obtained and spoon-fed while holding each child in turn a child’s serving portion of one of their favorite foods - not a meal - just one food. There was no other food. I awoke very scared.
stilearning: I have two kinds of dreams — some obviously symbolic, others that seem movie-like and literal. Do you feel your dream was symbolic, or was is scary because it seemed literal?
anon at 22:23: “all events that “ever were, are now, and will be” are happening simultaneously, eternally.” I have long felt that what you said is true. Lately, though, I feel like there is some sort of… flex to the future.
Still, there was an undeniable frisson I felt when I opened up the hidey-hole I have in this endtable to put in the can opener I “saw” previously. It was a clunky big one I didn’t like to use, tossed in a side drawer. I just found it a couple days ago. And of course in the last week I’d put in the oatmeal I “saw,” too…
Geez, maybe I just like to give myself the heebie-jeebies. I sure hope so.
Many of my previous movie-like dreams have come true in the future on a symbolic level.
However, my symbolic level is almost literal.
I am very upset by this dream. There are many similarities to this dream and Northstar’s.
Children will be starving. (As if they weren’t now in many places in the world.) Please prep more - you may be able to save a child or two or three.
Not birdflu, nor a pandemic dream, but I had a strong feeling of dejavu when I first heard the word “Ernesto” describing the next named storm. This was two or three days ago when it was still a tropical depression. My feeling, and I believe it was/is a feeling versus some type of psychic phenomenon, was that this was going to be a very bad hurricane. There was (and still is) also an odd conviction that it will hit New Orleans and finish it off. Let us hope that all of this is simply just Okieman’s over active imagination. (Those folks have already had a terrible time of it.) With all that is happening in this world right now there is a tendency to wonder “what’s next” and expect additional bad things developing.
Please, don’t anyone think that I am wishing this upon anyone. I worked in both Louisiana and Texas after Hurricane Rita. The devestation was widespread, and along the coast in Cameron Parish, LA it was absolutely incredible.
What I would like for Ernesto to do is to weaken into a tropical depression again, go inland on the Texas coast (without doing damage by the way, I got kinfolk down there) and then bring some much needed rainfall to southern Oklahoma.
Alas, Okieman, I believe that nature is not going to be so accomodating. Please see
http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/refresh/graphics_at5+shtml/144727.shtml?5day
for the current estimated track — and the prediction that Ernesto will become a hurricane on Monday.
Dennis in Colorado – at 11:26
It still has plenty of time to go one way or another. Maybe it will fall apart before it gets anywhere.
This is my recurring pandemic dream; actually a bad/strange dream. The feeling that it leaves behind is indescribable.
In the dream, I am as wide awake as if I drank a pot of coffie or as if I’d run 2 miles, with a big determined bird behind me. The rushy sound of feathers and glimpses of a hungry, hard beak.
There are ordinary people all around me as I’m trying to communicate to them something of great urgency. Although it appears as if they are listening, they respond by talking about a completely different subject. It’s like they are sound asleep even though their eyes are wide open. Staring…. It’s like we’re playing roles in a Twilight Zone episode They don’t listen.
Sometimes, in the bad, strange part of the dream, I’m forced to try and catch the attentions of another type of person; say, someone dressed in chic, expensive clothes; a sauve alfa male with a big office and fancy title; a key player with vital information that I absolutely must have; or one of those elected “servant of the people” elite. It’s really mouth-drying to even look at these type of people: their eyes are so much more alert and they’re so much more animated with their studied facial expressions- yet they, too, are sound asleep. It’s … weird. I’m dreaming I’m awake surround by awake sleeping people. When they do condescend to answer my fevered questions their answers are delivered with a spray of saliva and a big wink ‘n grin. They’re having fun, while they deflect concerns with ease, paralyse with convoluted language, frighten and ridicule. These are the deciders, the planners, the check-writers and managers, builders of solar this and solar that ranches located on one hundred cultivated acres with a private army and all the water and mineral rights! They laugh at opinion polls, they snap their fingers at the opinion polls! because they are THE MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE! I thought the masters of the universe line was a joke…a joke!………… but it’s a very bad/strange dream.
I struggle to wake up. I’m afraid I’m still dreaming……..
Ocean2, your dream is like the cartoon version of what I really believe: people seemingly awake yet wandering around unconscious to a looming threat, and the rich and priviliged and those in the loop able to laugh at the problem — and the little people — because they’ll have special protection and resources.
Concerning my 10:20 post, sometimes I love being wrong. This is one of those times
Okieman, amen. I shake my head when I see the predictions of 12–15 inches of rain for the areas where Tropical Storm Ernesto is coming on shore, but it could have been so much worse. I understand that hurricanes are nature’s way of getting heat and moisture from the tropics to the arctic regions, but I’m glad this one didn’t go through the gulf coast region to accomplish that.
I’ve been having nightmares the last couple nights. I don’t remember anything about them beyond they cause me to jerk awake, heart beating like I’d been chased by the hounds of hell. I wouldn’t think anything of it except the husband hasn’t been sleeping well either and the kid said he’s been having a hard time sleeping the last few nights.
Has anyone else had difficulty sleeping lately?
Three days now.
The night mares have stopped, but every night for the past week have been waking up at 2 - 3 in a cold sweat and wide awake. Feel like I need to check the Wikie, don’t do it but it is very hard to get back to sleep. Most likely I am just getting old and going through male menopause. (Yes ladies it is real and the hot flashs during the day sometimes drives me nuts)
Odd, I have had my first pandemic dreams in the last 2 weeks. The first I ran into an old “best” friend of mine. I haven’t seen her in 14 years. I told her about the bird flu, and actually took her prepping. She was very receptive to it. Then last night I had another one, I was at a party with my sister. I was telling her about the bird flu and she finally agreed it was going to happen. I mentioned she should start prepping, but said she wouldn’t go so far as to do that. A person in back of me called me out about it, and told the whole room that the bird flu was a joke. I tried to explain about it but no one wanted to hear it. Now, two things about this. In my life I have had three dreams come true, exactly as I saw them. I have always been very “sensitive”. Just one example, when my mom was in the hospital last October, a nurse took very good care of her. I said Santa is going to be good to you this year. Her mouth dropped open and said, how did you know that? My husband just bought me a expensive stove and refrigerator today and said they were from Santa. My mother just shrugged and said she has always been like that. My friend calls it being one with the universe. I have been following the news, but for the last couple of weeks, I have been very busy with my son going into 11th grade. School starting is always a stressful time for him, he has severe learning disablities. So I have not been able to focus on the bird flu much. I feel though that this is telling me I need to get back to prepping.
Texas Rose – at 22:08
Yes. And my experience is much like yours.
Had a disturbing dream this week - not necessarily pandemic oriented but since I rarely remember my dreams and given the nature of this one - I thought I would post it.
I dreamed that I was in the backseat of a car with someone else driving (a co-worker who I also consider a friend) and that my daughter was in the backseat with me as well. The driver was driving up a road that wound up a cliff edge - high above the ocean. He pulled onto the shoulder to allow another car to pass and when he began to proceed forward again, allowed the car to roll slightly backwards. I knew instantly that it was going to lose purchase on the hard surface area and was in jeopardy of sliding out of control. Which of course it did. The remainder of the dream is about looking at my daughter as we plunged for what felt like an eternity backwards to our deaths. I kept thinking “we are both going to die and there is absolutely nothing to be done about it.” and then saying outloud to my daughter “I hope you know how much I love you.”
Dream ends abruptly.
Someone on the first page of this thread (preppiechick, I think?) mentioned having a dream that literally changed the way they saw life. I had one that was like that ~ so real I couldn’t eat or sleep for three days ~ and in the last 18–24 mo or so have begun having ‘sequels’ to it, which were responsible, truthfully, for my beginning to prep w/o necessarily knowing why …
In my dream, my husband and I (we were not married at the time I had the dream) were driving along and just past the fence and across a wide open space I could see a large city complete w/skyscrapers, etc. (We were in Kansas back then; I assumed the space was a field of waving wheat.)
I was idly watching the city as we drove by and noticed that there were multiple planes flying very low below the clouds. I said something to dh about how odd it was and I hoped they didn’t hit anything. Just then, two planes collided at the top of one set of skyscrapers and another hit a different building. The buildings went down like dominoes, with dust rising one after another, and as the final one landed the dust went up like the cloud from a bomb and began WWIII and teotwawki.
There was more, and I wrote it down and also told dh and several friends because it affected me so dramatically.
I happened to be watching the news the morning of 9/11 and saw the second plane hit. After the towers fell, they switched to a camera angle from the ferry port and I almost threw up….it was exactly the scene from my dream ~ fallen towers, crashed planes, dust and smoke everywhere…and all seen just past the fence and across an expanse of waves, but water instead of wheat, but the same distance otherwise.
BTW, I had that dream in 1988.
Even before 9/11, to think of it raised the hair on the back of my neck. Now….well.
So when the sequels began again, I began prepping almost w/o realizing I was doing it, but driven in a way I have never been. (I am far from the Chicken Little type.) They abated a bit and then began again, dovetailing with pandemic stuff (think military quarantine) last fall, just before the MSM began to really pick up the story.
They’ve intensified again over the last six weeks.
I’ve had a couple of dreams recently, not easy to explain. not showing me anything specific its more symbolic then real. More a message from a higher power? I saw a huge amount of people in a very long line and they were all covered in a red haze. this repeated over and over in my dream one night. I’m not sure what the message is.
Last night the word montallo or montacello? was repeated over and over while I was searching for things. These things were related to the past, history, artifacts but in miniture. Most of the time my dreams are specific and detailed. I’m just not getting it.
DoubleD @ 14:31: I think I have an interpretation for your dream, would you like to hear it? Do you have an interpretation yourself?
Petticoat Junction: What a stunning vision. Incredible. Thank you for sharing it. Oddly, it brought to mind a dream I had _30_ years ago as a young teen — yes, so intense, it has stayed with me all this time. In it I am on a hilltop looking down at a city in flames. All roads out are choked with traffic, fleeing people. I am sobbing. I didn’t write this one down; it was a single image, so I drew it, pen and ink. Bet I still have it somewhere. (I don’t feel it referred to 9/11)
Please, can you tell us more about the… “more” you saw, and about the “sequels” you are having now?
Kim T: Monticello? Thomas Jefferson’s home? Checked a map and it’s a jot away from Fluvanna, yikes! There’s a weird coincidence. The line of people,the red haze meaning the infected?
And now one from me… not exactly pandemic, but here goes: My elderly mother is sewing. She drops her needle, and not bothering to retrieve it, just gets another one. I tell her I will look for it, she can’t just leave it on the floor, but she just waves her hand dismissively, exasperated at my insistance. I look in the long silky fibers of the sheepskin carpet — and there are dozens of needles in it! It is going to be dangerous for anyone to set foot on that carpet!
I think this represents a danger I see that is obvious to me but not to her. In 3-D my mother is actually sharp as a tack (a needle?) understands BF and is prepping to some extent, but not as realistically as I think she should. (The exasperation at my “needling.”)I think it also represents finding cases of BF in Indonesia — there is one I might know is there, but there are actually many more, magnifying the danger — but finding them is like finding a needle in a haystack.
I have been waking up with my heart pounding, but don’t remember my dreams. I don’t feel so much like a cuke anymore. :-( The latest Indonesian outbreak has definitely got my PPF up a notch.
I had a dream about a group of hungry children coming to our door. I don’t remember anything else about the dream, just the group of children at the door, saying they were hungry.
I wish whatever gives us these dreams would give us some freaking details, like when or where.
Monticello--- is on the back of the $20 bill. (maybe about money) It is the symbolism of power, status and controversy… & of a president. Monticello means little mountain in Italy. Being W. Va. doesn’t have a flu plan, and Monticello is there… who knows.
The first thing that came to me was monticello, mississippi.
Thomas Jefferson’s home is in Virginia, not West Virginia. And Virginia does have a flu plan. Not a great one, of course, since it’s vaccine-based and we have no surge capacity in any of the hospitals, but at least they’re thinking about it.
I had a dream two nights ago - my first pandemic dream since I started seriously prepping in September 2005. I had built a castle with great stone walls, lots of windows, lots of doors. Something happened that drove me to start gathering all the local folks into the castle, all the dogs, all the horses, all the cats, all the rabbits, but specifically NOT the chickens. A lot of people objected to being in the castle and kept trying to leave, unlocking the doors and running out. I had to keep after them to gather them up, get them inside, lock the doors and windows again — and all the while a great green creeping fog that only I could see was coming closer and closer. I got the last person inside and threw the last bolt just as the fog reached the castle door, and I woke up unsure if I had locked the door in time.
Two nights ago I had a dream about panflu. For some bizarre reason BUBBLE BEE’S were involved! Scratched a hole in my head over that one.
Hope the fog didn’t get in, Saddletramp!
Had another one last night, but this didn’t have the military/forced quarantine/sense of imminent attack like many of the others have. I only remember a snippet of it before the baby woke up crying….
I was looking at huge storehouses and barns with a Red Cross-type symbol painted on top; hidden away in the country and unknown to the masses. They were open in the front and each stall/open area was designated for a different type of food….huge bags of rice, wheat or oats, flats of water, etc. But although the ceilings & open areas were several stories high and stretched far back into the distance with room to store an incredible amount of food, there were only a few bags stacked in each area, barely enough to cover the floor.
I could hear the hushed, intense voices of two officials saying privately to themselves, “If they don’t finish this soon, there won’t be anyone left to need it,” with the sense that this was the last chance to fill the storehouses and keep people fed/sheltered or else they’d be left to exposure/certain death from the rapidly approaching (but as yet not revealed to the public) pandemic.
Classic FluWiki-preaching-to-the-choir dream, I guess, but the intensity in their voices and the utter empty bareness of the storage barns left me rather shaken when I woke up.
(Northstar, I will try to write the rest of the ‘88 dream and sequels later.)
Northstar - It would be interesting to hear your interpretation of my dream sequence. I have my own ideas on what it means - but would be interested in what you have to say about it.
I’m not 100% sure this dream refers to panflu, although that was the strong impression I had on waking. I was driving a car- not mine, maybe a rental? I was with three men I don’t know, but in the dream we were co workers. It was late fall or winter, there was a little snow, and where we had to go was out in the country somewhere. I turned off the highway onto a narrow blacktop road and had to go up a steep hill. The road was icy but there were tire tracks to follow that were slushy. It was very tense and scary, but I made it to the top (after a long time). I stopped at the top and the guys and I were talking- what a relief thats over for a minute, it’ll be downhill for a bit but GOOD GRIEF we have to do this THREE times- and the second time is supposed to be the worst. But after we went down that hill, the sun came out just enough to melt off the ice,which helped. Then the second hill that was supposed to be so awful never materialized. The rest of the way to where we were going was not exactly good road, but certainly better than we had expected. As we pulled up to the farm, we talked about how much easier that had been than we had thought it would be- I remember one guy saying it had been “no day at the beach,but do-able if you’re careful and pay attention”.
DoubleD: I think your dream cautions about the consequences of allowing others to be in your “driver’s seat” i.e. controlling your actions. The driver you “chose” for your dream could represent friends and co-workers, since he is both. You have chosen a difficult path, the rising, jagged road, which could mean prepping, and the consequences of a mistake are life and death. The mistake in this dream could be too much concern for the needs of others (pulling over to allow others to pass — perhaps concern about their opinions?) but resulting in your own — literal — downfall. AND that of your daughter! I think the dream is asking you: “What did I do wrong in this situation? What should I do instead to protect my daughter, whom I love so much?”
kc_quiet @ 10:46 — Well, of _course_ that’s a pandemic dream! :-)
I see the hills as representing the expected “waves” of flu… very difficult to get through, and expecting the second to be worse than the first. Having to go out to the country — the rural retreat that might be necessary — and the goal of a farm both sound very “panflu.” Your dream is ultimately optimistic, though — it is difficult to get to your destination, and fraught with danger, but not as hard as you thought it was going to be and as they said, doable.
Ok, here’s an interesting one:
I am sitting in a indeterminate place with two people: my adored, wise step-grandmother, and my maternal grandfather. He was very old when I was growing up and ancient when he died — I look again, and next to my grandmother is a handsome, laughing young man with marcelled blond hair — my grandfather as a young man!
My grandmother sits down across from me, takes my hands and severly but not unkindly says: “You do _not_ understand what you are asking for!” I protest, saying that if it was just me I’d be ok with dying, but I have to try to survive to save my children. She shakes her head, but says nothing more.
Then my grandfather sits down. He is a very old man again, the one I know. For a long time he says nothing, and I get impressions: his mother dying when he was a boy, the lonliness, loss and sorrow, and his hard, physical work as a lumberjack during the Depression — hard work, poverty, and more hard work. Then he seems to come to a decision and says, simply: “Life is always hard. If I could do it, so can you.”
That’s the end of the dream.
Anonymouse bean – at 10:33 It was Bristol, England without a doubt. I had to go look to see where Bristol, England is located afterwards. Interesting to say the least.
Please do not read more into this than simply that this popped into my mind. I live in the U.S. and thought it odd for me to all of a sudden think “Bristol”.
Maybe it meant Bristol Creme, the best sherry I have ever tasted, take it as a sign to stock up.
Hi Northstar. I suppose both of your grandparents are right. If this flu goes pandemic and hits worse case scenario of societal ‘disruption’ (word chosen carefully, optimistically)then life will be challenging and unfamiliar in that societal constructs embedded in our consciousness will no longer apply. We might feel lost, and at times wonder what we survived for…or realize we didn’t know what we were asking for when we clung to our survival while our world fell apart (in devastating pandemic scenario). But overall, since we are survivors, those momments of despairing questioning will be few, as we undertake rebuilding. Then we will recall our ancestors and their tribulations and we’ll think ‘if they could do it, I can too’. If your dream was an advice/learning session with your ancestors, as Australian aboriginals believe such a dream to be, then they are lovingly preparing you for how hard the survival might be, but telling you that you are up to the task. For this dream, I’d like to adopt those aboriginal beliefs and thank your grandparents for their guidance. And thank you for sharing their guidance with us.
Oooh! I love your “aboriginal beliefs” concept! I hadn’t thought about it quite that way. I will be happy to take it that way, too. Your interpretation, I felt, was spot-on. That’s exactly how I took it. (I don’t know, though. Grammy obviously felt this survival thing was NOT a good idea, overall. She didn’t out and say, “better off dead” but was clearly biting her tongue. I’ve always had enormous respect for her opinion. That’s a bit unsettling.)
Northstar - in keeping with the aboriginal idea…let’s say grandmother is both mother and wise woman. She dreads percieving the difficulty ahead for you, as any mother does for her children. She has died, and knows it’s not such a bad thing, and her work load is surely much less than it was when she lived. She sees the immense amount of work in front of you and, in the more detached way of someone who has already died, she is dreading that for you. She sees the work ahead for your children too. She’s holding an entirely different perspective now. In our life-filled minds we surely cannot comprehend the ease of death. From her perspective she probably can no longer understand the strong drive to cling to life’s toils. Like any mother, she does not want to see your life and the life of your children, her great-grandchildren, be so damn difficult. Even your grandfather had to draw deeply on some part of his consciousness to tap into that memory of life drive. And, picking up on your grandmothers thoughts, he tuned into his life’s harships, his toil. But he was able to remember being in a body and feeling that drive to stay alive after some thought. His spoken words of support likely represented both of them. But as a mother, she was more resistant to the idea of your future hardship…that’s enough rambling from me now…
Northstar, I, too, had a dream wherein I was visited by my deceased but still adored grandmother. She had been dead at least ten years at the time. I am an epic dreamer, but there was something about this dream that set it apart from all the others. I call this a REAL dream because there was a sense of reality to it that is hard to describe. The communication from her in this dream has affected my ethical system and my whole life’s direction. Did you also have this sense of almost preternatural reality? I will always believe my grandmother really came to me that afternoon.
I had another dream about panflu over the weekend. This one seemed extremely real. I remember many details, which is common for me.
It was February (2007?) and a nasty second wave had been rolling through. It was very cold out (below freezing), and had been for sometime.
My wife was freaking out about SIP. I had to screw the doors and windows shut to keep her in. She just wanted to go out “to see what was going on”, as there was only a constantly looping of messages about panflu on a few TV and radio stations.
In order to try to get her to calm down and to satisfy my own curiosity, I agreed to go out and drive around to see if I could find out anything. We decided that I would only venture out as far as our two way radios would reach.
As I stepped outside I was stunned by the crispness of the cool fresh air. It smelled so clean! I wondered if it was. (Although I remember most of my dreams, smell is not something I recall often, if every. So this one really made me sit on my bed for awhile when I got up).
As I walked to my car I tried to unlock the door with the remote. It didn’t work. Dead battery. (This detail taught me to make sure I bring in the car batteries as a last SIP step). I almost walked back in the house but my wife kept the door locked. Good thinking on her part. I told her I needed the keys for the other car and to grab the video camera as well. I don’t recall how I got those from her. Maybe she left them on a window sill?
The next thing I remember I was at a nearby intersection. It was deserted except for a van that looked like it had drifted into the corner of the sidewalk. In the drivers seat was a woman with both hands on the steering wheel and her head on her hands sobbing. I hit the horn and lowered my window a bit. She opened her door and said that her van had quit running, and that she had to get her son to the graveyard to bury him next to his sister. I told her she wouldn’t be able to dig a grave because the ground was frozen solid.
That the last thing I remember.
Sorry if this post is too long, but I did leave out a lot of stuff that really didn’t make much sense.
Lisa, you were so eloquently able to voice the thoughts and impressions given in that dream, it brought me to tears. (In a good way. It brought out the very deep feelings connected to this dream.) Yes, that is _exactly_ the message I felt was being given, but couldn’t articulate as well. You are a gifted writer! (And very insightful, as well!) Thank you! I feel even more this dream was a rare gift.
bgw in MT: I’ve had dreams before in that “indeterminate place” that had the presence of message — all of them interesting, all of them remembered. They had their own dream reality (as opposed to the stark reality of some of my dreams) but all seemed “instructive.” Rarely do they have someone I know in them, though. (The “instructor” always knows *me* very well, though.)
bump @ 8:51: No apology necessary for your long post! I wish it were longer with some of the other odd details! Maybe we could pick up what your mind was getting at with them, if you’d like to mention a few. The cold, crisp air… what a great detail, and not one you’d think of off the top of your head. But with no traffic, no industry… yes, I bet the air would smell a lot cleaner. At least until the warm weather came. :-( (Remembering my own dream of the flood plain across from the cemetary.)
The news loops… that’s also something that’s occured to me. We won’t know _anything_ about what is going on if it’s really bad — all those information systems will break down. How bad is it? Is it safe to come out? What’s really going on? We’ll have no clue.
The woman in the van seems very real, too. These “real” dreams are always waaaaaaay more frightening than traditional dreams. Earlier in the thread I referred to the “animus mundi” but what I meant was the “spiritus mundi”, the collective unconscious. These dreams seem to tap into it in an extremely literal, realistic way which in itself seems to be a message.
Thanks, and add more if you like…
bump – at 08:51 was me - JWB
sorry
bump – at 08:51 was me -JWB
sorry again. I need more tea!
This came from my dreams over the last few nights:
It is somewhat jumbled, not as clear as some of the dreams stated above, but I do remember trying to work with some group that included community leaders of various types. They seemed so befuddled, and I was trying to get them back on track and to re-focus to deal with the problems at hand. I remember them saying they just hadn’t expected all the deaths and so many were from non-flu incidents — I specifically remember them talking about people dying from lack of insulin, heart medicine, kidney dialysis, and other treatments that had been disrupted during the pandemic. I said something like — “What did you expect? You didn’t fully prepare, you should have planned for medicine “drops” or other services, you should have identified these needs ahead of time.” The group was really in disarray, like they were in shock. I realized that they were not going to be any help under those conditions and I was trying to motivate them to do something now to save other people.
Northstar – at 09:29 OK here’s more from/for my post at 08:51
When I drove away from my house the brakes squealed, which didn’t surprise me. The car had been sitting for months. As I drove down my street I looked at the chimneys to see if anyone had a fire going. Nothing. When I got to the end of my street I used my turn signal, and chuckled “That was stupid”. Further along, right before the intersection, and this is really strange, there was a lion and an elephant on the roof of a auto parts/shop building, arguing!
JWB, I’ve been having more of those ‘real’ dreams lately, too. In a way I prefer them and in a way I’m always more tired when I wake up after one.
I’m curious, what do you think of as the main traits of elephants and lions? Stubbornness, strength, something else?
Petticoat Junction – at 11:25 “I’m curious, what do you think of as the main traits of elephants and lions? Stubbornness, strength, something else? “
I really didn’t analyze that part. I brushed it off as something silly. But now that you mentioned it, how about leaders! Leaders arguing ?
That’s the first thing I thought of…perhaps one large lumbering one (I thought of those who are too slow to move - though once an elephant does start charging, watch out!) and one who is more agile and aggressive in dealing with challenges (but needs the women to do all the work, bwa ha ha. Ahem, sorry. lol)
it’s strange, maybe, that elephants are being mentioned here. perhaps entirely unrelated, but archetypically who knows?
when i first began to get serious about prepping, when i came to the final conclusion that this would happen at some point in some form and that once it did it would be bad, i had a very beautiful and exceptionally powerful dream involving an elephant.
in the beginning, i am descending along a cliff-side overlooking the ocean. on the beach there is an extraordinary asian-type ritual/celebration taking place. the sun is setting to the west, with the ocean sky to the east reflecting back rich hues of gorgeous crimson, orange, and purple. the sky appears to be on fire, and i’m just in awe taking this in. on the beach, people are lighting candles in small paper boats shaped like lotuses, and setting them afloat on the calm ocean water. the whole scene is entirely peaceful and brilliant.
suddenly, absolutely out of nowhere a gigantic elephant crashes into the dream, i have no idea from where. it’s suddenly there in the water just a few feet in. it sort of thrashes into the dream very quickly and turns part of itself to me and just ROARS, in a blast that sends everyone running and screaming up the beach. i kind of stand there dumbfounded, in sort of a wary sense of overwhelming awe not quite fear. i then slowly turn and begin to run up the beach. the creature then turns benign and trots away. i notice a skinny dark-skinned man riding it’s back in eastern costume.
it may sound like nothing, but the dream had a tremendous impact on me. i couldn’t stop wondering where that elephant had come from and what it meant. it was like some sort of wake-up call, or, it seemed to me at the time, an indication from some deeper level of being that this thing concerning me so, potential pandemic, would emerge rather suddenly, with little warning whatsoever. ???
JWB: I admit, you got me with the elephant and lion! My first take was from one of those apocalyptic movies I’ve seen, can’t remember which one, where a man is wandering an empty city and in a dreamlike sequence sees a lion, and then a giraffe. (It is explained later that as society collapsed, the zoo animals were turned loose.) Anyone remember this movie?
Then I started looking at it on a more symbolic level. My thought also was arguing political leaders/parties — US parties, or China/India/Africa — another thought was (since they were on an auto shop) representing outsourcing to China/India (Chinese lions are a symbol of the aristocracy) and the problems caused by JIT. A third thought is of the dreamworld’s love of puns: the elephant in the living room nobody will discuss, and all the lyin’ going on about it.
Posie, that’s also how I saw the symbol of your elephant: an enormous, destructive force, this elephant that is not now acknowledged but will destroy all beauty, peace and serenity that we all have.
I am not familiar with asian rituals if this actually represents one, but I saw the lighted boats as symbols of humanity — all those souls, floating into the infinite in the evening of eternity — but the serenity and peace of it being destroyed by this great disruption that causes those alive to flee in panic, all ritual and grace lost in the turmoil.
Northstar – at 12:57
The movie you mentioned was “Twelve Monkeys”. I must have got the elephant and lion from that because two weekends ago I was reminded of the movie. I was at a horseshow enjoying the dry warm weather and watching a bunch of people in a competition. Unfortunately I was downwind when a burst of wind kicked up the dust (horse crap) off the field. All I could think of was March 9th 1918.
The rest of the day I looked at the fairgrounds from that perspective. Crowds of people mingling about, porta-johns soaking in the sun, and horse crap in the treads of everyones shoes. I said to myself “ Now I know what Bruce Willis went through when he went back in time before the pandemic hit.” I almost lost it when I came upon the petting zoo. Little kids petting and feeding pigs, goats, and ducks. I wanted to run up to them and scream “RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!” But my eye caught a beer stand and I went and bought a 16 ounce attitude adjustment. :-)
The elephant and lion-
FWIW, the first thing that came to me was good and evil. In the christian religion the lion is symbolic of Christ. At first, I blew this off. But it kept nagging at me, so I did a google search on elephant symbolism in religion. It turns out that there is a god in eastern religion that has a huge elephant head… Ganesha. According to what I found, Ganesha is elephant in wisdom, strength and power. But, when “containing evil” is ruthless. Part of Ganesha’s make-up has to do with flowers. Ganesha was named by Shiva, which I found interesting because of a previous dream on this thread.
A couple of months ago I had a dream, and as usual, the dreams I remember are usually “sniplets.” (Longer dreams are remembered by what may be said to me, what I may read or some event that happens.) This particular dream really pierced me.
I walked out of my front door, down my porch, and took a single step into my yard. This spot marks the beginning of what is a series of garden trails throughout my front yard… about an acre worth of winding paths into gardens that lead to various places on our property. At this beginning place, a mother snake and a baby snake were posed. The mother snake was no more than 3 inches, and about the size of my middle finger. The baby snake looked more like an earthworm, but obviously was a snake. The mother snake had her mouth wide opened, ready to attack me. At first, momentarily, I was afraid. Then, I realised I could stomp on her, or easily out run her… there was nothing to fear. I tried to convey to this mother that I had no intentions of harming her, even though I easily could. The mother snake was absolutely irrational. Her only thought was to protect her baby. I tried to convey to her that I did not want to harm her baby, and that I quite incidently walked out my door at the time she and her baby were crossing my path. The mother snake made it clear she was there purposefully. She was waiting for me. (All of this is taking place without a word being uttered.) I didn’t budge an inch, and neither did she. I awoke from the dream knowing just that. That she needed to protect her baby, and needed what I had. She was “crazed” and not thinking clearly. I knew I could not harm her, nor could I reliquish what I had to help her under her terms. In the end, I knew she would not overtake me… and I have a strong feeling her baby will end up in my care.
Another dream, last night:
My dreams often have to do with children and babies. There was this precious little baby girl roaming all over a house (not my house, but someplace I knew in the dream, but not someplace I know now… a place I was at “to help out.”) I kept telling the people in this house the baby needed to be looked after, she didn’t need to be roaming all over the place. They wouldn’t allow me to help with the baby. The baby kept drinking from the toliet. There wasn’t any other source of water at this place, and the toliet was filthy… as was the house. I kept trying to help the baby, who was wild-eyed and determined to get to the toliet water. In the end, I could not help the people in the dream… nor the baby. It has really weighed heavy on me today. Personally, I am praying for these people, whoever they are.
The third part of the secret revealed at the Cova da Iria-Fatima, on 13 July 1917. An al Qaeda-linked extremist group warned Pope Benedict XVI on Monday that he and the West were “doomed,”
In light of this, I reread the third part of Sister Lucia’s secret of Fatima (pasted below). Interesting side note is that Fatima is also the name of Muhammad’s daughter.
[[http://tinyurl.com/7r4b|THE MESSAGE OF FATIMA]]
I write in obedience to you, my God, who command me to do so through his Excellency the Bishop of Leiria and through your Most Holy Mother and mine.
After the two parts which I have already explained, at the left of Our Lady and a little above, we saw an Angel with a flaming sword in his left hand; flashing, it gave out flames that looked as though they would set the world on fire; but they died out in contact with the splendour that Our Lady radiated towards him from her right hand: pointing to the earth with his right hand, the Angel cried out in a loud voice: ‘Penance, Penance, Penance!’. And we saw in an immense light that is God: ‘something similar to how people appear in a mirror when they pass in front of it’ a Bishop dressed in White ‘we had the impression that it was the Holy Father’. Other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious going up a steep mountain, at the top of which there was a big Cross of rough-hewn trunks as of a cork-tree with the bark; before reaching there the Holy Father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way; having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees at the foot of the big Cross he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious, and various lay people of different ranks and positions. Beneath the two arms of the Cross there were two Angels each with a crystal aspersorium in his hand, in which they gathered up the blood of the Martyrs and with it sprinkled the souls that were making their way to God.
I was thinking the corpses in the city could be panflu victims, and the pope being killed by terrorists or maybe people demented by the horrors of the pandemic.
TinyURL substituted for link ‘cos that link appears to break the software. - pogge
OK. You people really got me thinking. I posted this on this thread:
“12 September 2006 JWB – at 08:14 Two nights ago I had a dream about panflu. For some bizarre reason BUBBLE BEE’S were involved! Scratched a hole in my head over that one. “
The night I dreamt that was the day I went through that real dust storm mentioned above. In that dream there were a swarm of bees, like a tornado. I knew bee’s couldn’t be a vector so I blew it off.
Maybe bees can’t be a vector, but could they be a part of a cure? It was a tornado (cyclone) of bees. A cyclonic storm of bee’s. Can bee venom affect the Cytokine Storm caused by H5N1?
I remember something about bee venom being used for some medicinal purposes. I don’t have time to research this right now, but I will after work! Isn’t the someone here with the handle “beehiver”?
JWB - you might have something there. Arthritis folk cures included bee stings to the affected joints. Some people believe they benefit from them, but I don’t think there’s any science on it yet. Rheumatoid Arthritis is often thought to be an immune system response gone wrong.
JWB – at 14:31 Can bee venom affect the Cytokine Storm caused by H5N1?
Probably not in a desireable way, but it is worth exploring. In general, envenomation causes the body to release cytokines (not the effect you want). There are some snake and spider venoms that are being investigated for their anti-inflammatory properties and maybe there has been some success with bee venom accupucture for the treatment of rheumatoid arthritis … but not influenza.
Dennis in Colorado – at 14:46 “In general, envenomation causes the body to release cytokines (not the effect you want). “
Where do the cytokines go when released from bee venom? To the lungs or to the sting?
Time to get some duplicate keys made up at Walmart. Had a dream that I was somewhere with friends. They vanished, my purse also vanished while I was searching for them. No keys, no credit cards, no money, no friends. I was telling this to some sympathetic people who saw I was upset, when I woke up. Time to get more keys made up and post all my credit info in a safe place. (I had left one of my credit cards somewhere, and a few days later when I was there they pulled it out and said I had lost it. Might be the reason for the dream. But I didn’t like the vanished friends part.
Enough Already: Great catch on Ganesh! That is one element of Indian spirituality that I’m familiar with. Ganesh, though considered a very benevolent god, is the child created by Shiva, bringer of destruction and creation.
JWB: If memory serves, bee venom is indeed a folk remedy for _auto-immune_ diseases: MS, Lupus, arthritis. Since the cytokine storm is also an auto-immune response…? Interesting connection, there.
Diana: what a great idea. Isn’t it interesting how our subconscious points out little things to us that might be very important?
Northstar
Northstar - the movie was 12 monkeys with Bruce Willis and Brad Pitt, a cult classic about pandemic released as bioweapon. Oops, I see that JWB had already answered that! I am so glad that you enjoyed my rambling about your ancestor dream!
JWB - since your dream was realistic in a sensory way - I’m going for the lion and elephant representing Africa and Asia. Their appearance may have been spurred by the movie, but perhaps your mind chose those two out of the many shown in the film for a reason. Perhaps the reason is simply identification of pandemic origin, where it brewed and stewed. You can tell that I am not a member of the ‘dreams are random neuronal discharges’ club. There is a starkness to the images in your dream which is unusual. Your description of the empty quiet streets and the woman in the van left me cold. I would love to hear of some of the seemingly senseless images your dream held.
Posie - “it seemed to me at the time, an indication from some deeper level of being that this thing concerning me so, potential pandemic, would emerge rather suddenly, with little warning whatsoever. ???” - that was your experience on awakening? Likely to be the most valid (and frightening) interpretation then…A strange mix of beauty/power/foreboding. Dreams are endlessly fascinating. I heard the elephant trumpet when I read yours.
JWB - and everyone, Here is an interesting research article about bee venom. I copied the most pertinent part for those who don’t want to read the whole thing, but it’s not long. Maybe monotreme or anon22 or some other fine scientific mind can evaluate it? http://tinyurl.com/qbjey
Next, the team investigated the mechanism of the antiarthritic effect in a murine macrophage cell line and in synoviocytes obtained from RA patients. They showed that bee venom inhibited the generation of inflammation mediators, reducing lipopolysaccharide (LPS)-induced prostaglandin E2 and nitric oxide (NO) production, and they speculate that this is a result of COX-2 inhibition. This inhibitory effect of bee venom is consistent with that shown previously for indomethacin, they comment.
Bee venom also exhibited important inhibitory effects on the generation of inflammation mediators, including tumor necrosis factor- (TNF-), and their enzyme expression and on LPS-induced reactive oxygen species generation as well as calcium release.
In addition, the researchers showed that bee venom and 1 of the purified proteins, melittin, inhibit the transcriptional activity of NF-B, 1 of the most important regulators of expression of proinflammatory genes such COX-2, cytosolic phospholipase A2 (cPLA2), inducible NO synthase
(iNOS), and TNF-. The result is a reduction in inflammatory gene expression. Surface plasmon resonance (SPR) analysis showed that bee venom and melittin interact at a specific p50 binding site.
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