As we get more robust on the Forum, and have new users added, please note these basic rules which are similar to netiquette everywhere:
The Forum is open. Write me or any of the editors if you encounter a problem. We have very few, btw, but as we get bigger I think this will be added to periodically. Thanks, all, for participating and reading.
Comment added to bump to top. I’d like these rules seen and read.
End of sermon.
I agree with your rules except #4 DemFromCT. I think it would be OK for people who want to comment on politics in the USA to simply start a thread titled “USA Politics and bird flu”. Then, those not interested could simply avoid the link. There have been days when I just really wanted to vent to someone about the political garbage going on in the USA. However, it appears that most of us seem to be on the blue side of the fence here. Preaching to the choir is not much help I guess.
Michael,
It is precisely that
Let me try that agian.
Michael,
It is precisely that non-Americans use this site, and that the politics of pandemic flu transcend American politics that rule #4 should be taken with a pillar of salt.
“We” here should be just as free to suspect motives in the PRC as in the USA.
I recall the undying words of freelance subversive Archie Tuttle:
“We’re all in this together.”
Hear, Hear!
There’s no censorship re rule #4. Just behave responsibly. I’d like Democrats and Republicans to feel comfortable using the site, along with non-partisans and independents. Big tent. Room for everyone. That sort of thing.
News stories should not be reproduced in full. It is a violation of copyright and fair use rules, particularly when not accompanied by analysis. Post just a portion, and provide a link. No link, no credibility This one..as long as you provide a link and the origanla source from which it has come from…some of the reports are very short..as long as the news reports are not 6 pages long..or they would not be doing it on other sites…
Re rule #3: Short reports are not so much an issue, and always supply a link. I don’t much care what other sites do or don’t do.
Big tent.
Man, you can say that again !
Personnally, I am not interest to talk about politic. A lot of people have too many diferent idea (all are good), but unfortunatly those different opinion often turn bad and nobody can made them change their mind.
If everybody was very clear in the title of the first post of a thread- and everybody else tried to stay ,more or less on topic- or at least figured out a way to reincorporate their off topic argument back into the original thought- it would make things alot easier. Marco’s “Strange 1918 data” thread is (IMHO) is one of the most important and fruitfull places of discussion going on- but you would not have a clue about what the subject was from reading the heading. Maybe it should be “why did the japanese have 90% lower mortality in 1918?”
No one would mind political discussion in a thread that forwarned that it was politics. We could talk religeon if there was fair warning. It is just that some people feel like they can talk about anything on any thread. As we get more and more info, it is harder to read everything.
Saying all that- I think that this thread is a perfect example of a clear beginning where we can discuss Wiki rules! hear hear
I’m glad there seems to be no argument with rule #1 and rule #2. Rule #3 applies to longer posts, not shorter ones. Links should always be included.
Rule #4 is all in the application. If the Forum topic title is clear and folks stick with the topic, yeah, that can work. But i wouldn’t want, to be extreme, 7 consecutive topic posts today with 7 variants of “Bush sucks – discuss here” in the title. You may feel that the title justifies the content, but the overall picture isn’t pretty. Occasional posts to that effect would not be so harmful, but really the point is to discuss flu, not American politics, cars, sports or music.
If you want to talk politics, alternative sites can be provided.
I’d personally like to THANK the FluWiki et al for this attitude and for remaining nonpartisan. Frankly, on some of the other sites I feel like some of the posts might as well be “NOT WANTED” signs aimed at people with a worldview like my own. And, uh, I’m an Independant and pretty moderate as far as American politics are concerned, so it’s not like you’re talking to a member of the “Moral Majority” here. But honestly, certain recent posts showing up elsewhere are honestly offensive to me personally, especially as I’m here to discuss influenza, not get into socio-political discussions (and this is an area that my knowledge and training DO NOT leave me at a disadvantage quite like the genetic discussions). And, yes, I AM venting, but really the same people are involved as to not have to contact directly. Needless to say, any posts on other sites (those that assume that participants are of the same mind politically, and that any dissenters should just know when they’re not wanted; and don’t backtrack, that’s EXACTLY what those posts are entended to voice) that make me feel unwelcome, send me right back to the FluWiki, where I feel welcome, I feel a sense of mutual respect, and the sense that(as was posted above) we ARE really all in this together. Caring about this issue trumps politics, even for me, PolySciGirl. Therfore Thank You for the FluWiki and the non-partisan rules. Anything less is really a slap in the face to people who want to stay on topic and find off-topic attacks aimed at their worldviews,beliefs and those who feel the similarly. Simple facts. Time, knowledge, and comraderie are are concerns and solutions at this time. If I want to discuss Bush or “insert national leader’s name here” or the policies of the aforementioned, I ain’t gonna do it here. That would be (in my mind) RUDE to anyone who I don’t know who might not share my views, and this forum is simply not the place. So THANK YOU for this breath of fresh air, your patience through this vent and through my many less than adequate questions (heeheehee). I really want to stick with my personaly goals here. Learn as much as possible, and keep staying goofy (or at least sardonic) even when things look grim. I like the FluWiki rules just as they are, and am very thankful that this site has been and continues to be here to foster learning, debate, and the sharing of ideas that will hopefully continue to grow!!!!!!
Sorry if I seem, er, hacked off, but a few posts I read today really did get under my skin that much.
Let me weigh in on rule #4, with which I strongly agree with DemFromCT. To the extent that any kind of partisanship or bias is expressed here it should be partisanship or bias on the side of public health and public welfare. That doesn’t mean that politics and political critique/commentary is not allowed. “Public health” has the word “public” in it and is inherently political for that reason. So the policies of any government (lack of planning, lying, lack of transparency, stupid policies, use of flu as an excuse for other policies) would all seem proper areas of rational discussion—as long as they are focused on promoting public health and public welfare and preventing its destruction in the context of flu policy, science, etc. Posts that are blatantly partisan in character (the “Bush sucks” variety) have no place here. As DemFromCT notes, there are innumerable places to vent your spleen and many of us do so. My own blog site (Effect Measure) is very political and we also talk religion and anti-war there. If that’s your cup of tea, you are welcome there or any of thousands of other sites. But keep this one focused on pandemic influenza, please, as a contribution to the general welfare, the public’s health and a better world.
And yes, courtesy is a prerequisite for rational discussion, although not a guarantee of one. As LexEcon says, the key here is mutual respect. If we all want a healthier and less dangerous world (and who doesn’t?), that shouldn’t be too difficult.
I really hesitate to post another comment here, because I really want this topic to fall by the wayside and, besides, I don’t exactly relish getting soundly hammered on (a result I fully expect) for having a minority opinion, which apparently I do.
But this is bugging me, so in an effort to de-bug myself I am going to say my piece.
While I understand the thinking, and to a certain extent agree with the idea, overall I take issue with rule # 4. And here’s why:
One of the things that make this forum so full of vitality and interest and immediacy and relevance is the spontaneous nature of the comments made. Now if I and others have to be on guard to censor ourselves so as not to break rule # 4, I think the ensuing conversations will be far less lively. And really, I have not seen any political debates here that have devolved into nastiness. From what I’ve seen (and I’ve read most of the comments) most political disagreements have remained esssentially good-natured. A bit of sniping back and forth, and so what? That’s one.
And two. Some say (uh oh, that’s an old Fox News trick…oops! There I go again) they don’t want to hear about politics because it is not relevant. I disagree with that completely. But even if it were true it would be a specious argument because there are many things posted on this forum that are utterly irrelevant. Should those people be silenced? We don’t really need to hear about someone’s wild conspiracy theory. We don’t really need to hear about their dreams. We don’t need to hear how they’re dealing with their 5 hyperactive kids or how their dog got loose or about the concert their kids performed as elves in last night. No, we don’t need to hear about those things, but me - I want to. I want to because I want to know about the strangers here I am communicating with. If I know something about this one or that, it helps anchor whatever “pertinent” information they have to share in my tiny little brain. And it helps to keep me interested. I can laugh, I can empathize. And sometimes I can get mad. Besides, if I don’t want to follow a train of discussion, I know just the buttons to hit on my keyboard to make it disappear. Like magic.
And three. (And perhaps the most important.) Politics are relevant. So so relevant. It may not be relevant that the White House outed a CIA agent in an attempt to seek vengeance against someone who revealed their duplicity. No, that may not be relevant, but then again, in the tangled web of our world, who knows? maybe it is. But it sure as heck is relevant that they have dismantled public health structures in this country. And it sure as heck is relevant that Bush, in a public political flourish committed what, 7 billion dollars for bird flu? only to be quietly defunded by Congress (HIS Congress) the following week. And who would argue that decisions made by Bush have implications only for Americans? Not me.
And finally, here’s the thing. To even attempt to exert any kind of censorship over political discussion (even if it is self-imposed due to persuasion by the powers that be) will only have the ironic effect of creating more of the same. You know, the same thing that happens whenever the religious right loudly criticize what, Sponge Bob Squarepants? I don’t know. I’m sure there are zillions of better examples.
So I say, why not let things evolve here naturally.
I don’t think it’s broke.
I agree with others that politics are relevant in how various governments are dealing with pandemic preparedness and I think that in discussing this international problem politics will inevitably come up. The important point is that we are all here as a community and should avoid making personal attacks on anyone’s political opinions or challenging their intelligence or integrity. While I might not agree with each person, I respect everyone’s right to have their own opinion.
Well said. That doesn’t mean you can’t have opinions. Just show respect for each other, and post assuming the next reader may be on the other side of the spectrum from you.
There’s no more completely free speech here than there is when you visit someone else’s home. Sure, you can say what you want, but usually you don’t out of respect for the host.
This is old news. Bulletin boards and on-line sites for discussion are as old as the internets, and it’s the same rules everywhere. Without the basics, things can degenerate all too quickly.
Move on to other topics if you wish. This will be a ‘referral’ thread for future use and discussion at need.
I fully support these rules and think that we should all do our best to support them. In my opinion, Fluwikie.com is the leading non-governmental avian influenza site for reliable information about pandemic for the US and the English-speaking world. The reason for this is the foresight, policies, and talent of fluwikie.com’s publisher and editors.
While they “own” the site, the truth is that they put this site up for you and for me. It is then “our” site too and we need to take care of it and respect it just as we would anything else of value. These rules are not intended to stifle speech. They are really very minimal.
This site has helped many people world over understand the risk we all face from pandemic Bird Flu. For this service, the site deserves our respect and gratitude. The best way we can show this is by the content and character of the posts we leave on the site. Thousands of readers are likely to view your words, so keep that in mind while you compose them. We need to try and keep our posts informative, clear, and to the point. Everyone is at risk from pandemic influenza and we need to pull together in order to prepare properly. This is our best hope and one that is not fostered by making personal attacks on our leadership or politically polarizing statements. My hope is for us to keep to the high road and in that way further the influence and support of our site, Fluwikie.com.
Submitted with respect,
Grattan Woodson, MD, FACP
Thank you scaredy cat for articulating well what turns out to be my fuzzy thoughts about this. Politics has everything to do with public health in each country. I think we should feel free to flame polictical dunderheads but not each other. I personally love the UKs press’ propensity to call a spade a spade. They call politicians who lie, liars. The American press loves the word mistatement.
There are many important points here. Most importantly, what Dr. Woodson has said that this IS a wonderful NON-Partisan site for getting information out there and discussing it. Face it, in America and on the local levels, we are dealing with local politions who are bought and paid for by BOTH political parties and therefore can constitute roadblocks. The 2nd important point that I am thankful to see tonight is from Dem, regarding his comment that we should RESPECT each others’ views, and ALWAYS post with it in mind that not all reading these posts is on the side of the fence that you are on!! This is definitely what I keep in mind, yet I still see what I consider “political jabs” stated, as opposed to effective analysis of how politics/public policy/health policy are linked. Lastly, not to insult, but I find many of the posts on Effect Measure SO offensive to me personally/politically that I simply not participate there, and furthermore feel unwelcome. This is despite the fact that I actually love the information and theories put forward on the site as pertain to avian influenza. I cannot post there without simply ignoring most of what I read, even though I love the idea of being able to converse and share ideas (and read the ideas of others) and am not concerned much with anyone’s political leanings unless shoved in my face. This is why I love the Wiki, because I don’t shove my beliefs down anyone’s throat and the favor is returned. I very much want to learn as much as possible, as I always do. I know that the same people are involved with both this site and Effect Measure, and I treasure their knowledge, while also being thankful to have access to their thoughts here where I do not feel marginalized. I am sorry if I seem a bit wound up on the subject, but am still ENRAGED over a post on the other site, but don’t want to rain on their parade (though please tell me if a post there is appropriate, though it would be more of a novella….hahaha). That rage also emphasizes my gratitude in this site. Thanks for listening to this rant, and I also hope it helps people understand just how insulting a partisan (american) rant can be to some users (I hope I’m not the lone duck here).
Thank You Eternally for FluWiki!!!
I would not mind the political “speak” if it were only in an across the board fashion. Other administrations have screwed up and caused this country dis-service, but no critisism (sp) comes from those of that political bent at that time. It is normal, and very human. So please, keep politics out of these discussions by selecting to use a seperate heading. I need useful information about how to prepare for and survive a pandemic. I already know how to vote. Thank you, I feel better now.
Forgot to post my name. Ganygirl.
Very well said, Anon.
Time to put it near the top again.
First, I’ll consider Dem’s argument:
We should do nothing to dissuade people from posting.
I can’t agree more.
I haven’t encountered a post which might dissuade me from posting to this forum - and I certainly haven’t encountered a post which would dissuade me from reading it.
Perhaps I’m a Pachyderm LMAO! - Perhaps I’m a Donkey - NO WAY!
First, I’d beter tell you where I come from:
I come from a small place about 24 miles north of Jersey. Don’t get het up, Grace RN - I’m talking about the real thing :-)
I’m *certainly* not a Donkey (Guernseymen are Donkeys, Jerseyman are Crapauds)
(Oui, LL c’est vrai, mon vien - les Jersais sont crapauds et les Guernesiais on s’apelle les Ânes. Mais nous - les Aurignais - nous sommes Normands.)
Á la perchoine.
OK. So why should Dem wish to dissuade political comment?
I can give you a couple of good reasons. - And I have to admit they *are* good reasons (I certainly agree with them!)
The United States may not be the most sophisticated country in the world, but it is certainly the most powerful.
The United States has been a very good friend to much of Western Europe for a large part of the last century. It hasn’t always been plain sailing; the UK was the No 1 potential enemy of the US until the late 1930s - the UK fleet was bigger than that of the US.
The UK gave up its own strategic nuclear capability in the early 90s. The US had no idea - until late 1987 - whether the UK had a war plan which targetted the US. (The information was passed to the US by a senior British targetter with the approval of HMG.)
Relations between certain European countries and the US were at their best at that time. I can’t comment (with certainty) on current relations, but it does seem possible that there might be discrepancies between what the politicians might say and what the professionals might believe.
We are now living in times when the Europeans do not trust the United States. Many feel that the US misled the rest of the world over the arguments for the invasion of Iraq. Many people feel that the ‘coalition of the willing’ was an artificial construct designed to allow Dubya to ‘finish off what his daddy couldn’t’.
I’m pragmatic. The world’s a nasty place - I spent much of the cold war as a ‘mushroom farmer’ and I worked at a reasonably high (and responsible) level. In my considerable experience, the US was a responsible warrior partner during the cold war.
The cold war is over. The US is (IMO) no longer guided by qualified and experienced Generals - they do exist, but the present ‘chickenhawk’ regime ignores the wealth of experience it has access to and seems to wish to portray itself as an emasculated ‘Little Jonny Wayne.’
There are plenty of Europeans out there who distrust the US. I’m not an American - but (as you’ve probably gathered) I’ve a great deal of experience of working with your country, I have a great deal of respect for your military personnel (my professional colleagues) and for your intelligence agencies (also professional colleagues.)
It appears (to me) that there may be people within your present administration who have their own agenda; people who might place the interests of certain other countries above those of the US. - That’s up to you to sort out.
There are people outside the US who hate you, there are people outside the US who love you and there are people outside the US who don’t know what to think.
Slow down, steady up and find a president with an IQ greater than my shoe size and you’ll probably do OK.
Rupert. Shoe size 11. IQ 151. (not as smart as Bill … but If he’d hung out with me, we’d have had a good time ;))
This gets better every time I read it. What a great collection of people here.=-)
That’s the whole truth, CK.
We (all of us) are amazing. We are stardust. If we work together, there isn’t anything we can’t do.
This forum provides guidance. Should anybody suggest that they could provide anything more than guidance or a helpful suggestion, then that would (to me) seem presumptious.
But between us, if we work together, if we takw it slowly and carefully, we will all survive.
If you’d like to place a bet, I’m your man!
I think you’ll live.
I’m so convinced that you’ll live, that I’m prepared to offer odds of 3 to 1 on that you will die.
You bet me $300 (or €300, or £300 or whatever currency you like) and if you die, I’ll give you 100 units of your currency.
If you live, then I become seriously richer than I am now.
Well, that’s really the heart of the matter isn’t it? Politics IS at the heart of public health policies in each nation. However, if we consider the Americans who post on this site, and even the various ends of the spectrum in other countries, we WILL cease to get along as a group and end up breaking into factions (anyone else here read the Federalist Papers, hmmmm???). This is counter-productive and will get us nowhere, and believe it or not, I want to discuss issues with you all and be friendly regardless of how we vote. If I said on this blog that I would punch Cindy Sheehan in the face if I encountered her, where would that get anyone, honestly (though it’s true, if you want to comment, see “Lex” at myspace.com) in discussing this issue, i.e. pandemic influenza???? Expanding knowledge is a beautiful thing. My husband certainly thinks so, or else he wouldn’t have gotten 4 degrees and I wouldn’t have spent all of this time persuing extra degrees in my spare time. We, for the most part care not if we get a “degree”, rather if we gain the knowledge and camaraderie that go along with learning. We must continue to LEARN, and COOPERATION is key to this process. Let’s keep it up!!!
No Lex - The point of my post is that we - the people - are *far* more powerful than mere politics.
No Lex.
Read the books about how your country got going. Read the law. Read the Constitution.
You might have become accustomed to being shafted by the neocons, but at the end of the day, the people still rule in the United States. (Why am I - a foreigner - having to tell you things you used to know?)
If you work together - and if you work in a positive manner - you *can* get things done.
‘Cindy Sheehan’ was a smoke screen - whichever way you look at it.
I’m not a smoke screen (I’m a real bastard and I don’t go away.) You’re not a smoke screen; most of the people on this wiki aren’t ‘smoke screens’ - you’re voters - and you have big mouths!
I’m not a voter - I’m a foreigner but my wife’s a voter and I’ve got a *really* big mouth. My mouth ia irrelevant ín vour arguments (but that won’t make me shut it ;) )
You need to speak up. To speak for the decent ordinary people in America; those who lack representation.
A couple of hundred years ago some of your compatriots tipped tea into the harbour at Boston. The ‘Boston Tea Party’ (Bloody funny - no doubt. I don’t drink tea.)
Something to do with ‘no taxation without representation’
Well, that’s load of bollocks, I can’t vote - I’m a (legal) alien - but I have to pay tax.
I can live with that. I’m not in the US. I’ve spent the last 34 years supporting the US. I don’t regret that, but I’m somewhat confused bwcause given a very real problem ( a possible pandemic) the response of your government appears to be ‘let’s stick our head up our arse.’
C’mon, guys. Nobody expects you to come up with the absolute solution to a pandemic at the drop of a hat.
Can’t be done.
dBut why has Congress decided to stick its head up its arse? - Is nobody interested in the health and welfare of Joe Bloggs and his (voting) wife and his (voting) teenage son and his (soon to vote) children?
What exactly do Congressmen do gor their money? - Are none of them interested?
Congressmen play chicken… hold the money hostage for a better deal until the last minute.
Rupert, point taken. I’m no neocon. But my point was that I’m a sympathetic and empathic person, no matter which side of the aisle I’m on, and that I WANT to be friends wit all here who have the common interest of learning more about influenza and trying to influence public policy in the most meaningful directions. I really do want to get along with everyone, and more importantly, to LEARN more than I know today!!
With much Love and Gratitude,
LexEcon.
Not a problem Lex - amd I certainly didn’t intend anybody to think I was accusing them of being a neocon.
We are indeed all here to learn.
Great points. I’d like to add that quotes without comments are OK given the context of the post thread—all other posts are effectively the comments.
We do, of course, have to be very careful, Joel.
I’ve perhaps declared myself as a ‘non-neocon’. I am (of course) known to your government, but even so it might not be too wise for me to declare any kind of allegiance (notwithstanding that your government may well know exactly who and what I am. (I’m not about to embarrass anybody … maybe ;) )
I’m a foreigner. I’m not a threat to your country; in the past I have worked with (and am well-known to) a number of agencies. I am ordinarily considered to be a ‘valuable asset.’
I don’t live in America at the moment and I’m in no hurry to move there. You - as American Citizens - are protected by things such as ‘the Constitution’ ‘The Bill of Rights’ and ‘the Law.’
I as a foreigner - am protected by nothing. I’m not protected by the Constitution, nor am I protected by the bill of rights and the law is couched in terms which would allow a steamroller to run over me without any protection.
Have you read the Patriot Act recently? What can happen to you under said act?
I can be picked up off the street. I can be put in jail. I have no right to a lawyer. I have no rights under habeas corpus.
Your government could simply do away with me; nobody would be able (or entitled) to determine my whereabouts and nobody would have any entitlement to determine my disposal.
No, I’m not a member of Al Quaida, I’m a Christian. I’m also an ally. The father of an American citizen and the husband of an American citizen. I could, however. be locked up´- and thrown away. Nobody knows where. - I might even be eligible to go to a ‘special’ holding place in an eastern european country where my toenails might be torn out in the name of democracy.
No, I don’t live in America.
Are you surprised?
Interesting, Rupert,
How long has it been since you lived in America?
“If I said on this blog that I would punch Cindy Sheehan in the face if I encountered her, where would that get anyone, honestly (though it’s true…”
LexEcon,
If you said that on this blog, which you pretty much did, I would say two things:
One, you are a very cruel person.
Two, I think Cindy Sheehan has suffered enough. Why on earth would you want to make her suffer more?
Oh yeah. For your mysterious noble cause.
“Interesting, Rupert,
How long has it been since you lived in America?”
mmm… Truth? - 1990. Fiction 2001. (I have a permanent Green Card, the US government knows where I am - I have absolutely nothing to do with ‘party politics’ and I’m not really sure myself.) (LMAO).
I think I live in Florida - unless the tide comes in.
But I’ve got a New Mexico driving licence
(amongst others)
Which I got when I lived in Texas (I think-)
I just sign the tax form. It always comes with an appropriate disclaimer.
I’m not a Merkin. Some years ago the Imbecile in London sent me a letter requiring me to present myself for an interview on a given date. I phoned them and told them (respectfully) that I would not be available on that day. They asked me why not and I was unable (or unwilling) to explain my unavailability. They got *really* pissy about it and told me I wouldn’t be able to move to the US.
So I got really pissy amd talked to my friends on the 5th floor. They got really pissy with the guys on the first floor and things got very easy.
That worked fine, until I actually immigrated. They screwed up my Green Card. Major problem! it took two days, I was covered in fingerprint ink (you’d be amazed how far those people can make it go) I got involved in a mugging incident (the INS Office in Detroit was in a ‘bad’ area. Nobody told me.) I was pissed off anyway and when the dark-skinned gentleman asked me for my wallet, his arm and his nose broke.
Fortunately the gentlemen in the INS office managed to squeeze me in between Hose ‘a’ and Hose ‘b’ and I was allowed to stay in America. Then the government sent me overseas.
America is a wonderful place to live. I think. I understand I’ve been living there for 18 years now …
“If I said on this blog that I would punch Cindy Sheehan in the face if I encountered her, where would that get anyone, honestly (though it’s true…”
Two, I think Cindy Sheehan has suffered enough. Why on earth would you want to make her suffer more? “
Punching people in the face is quite unacceptable. It’s not civilised. Why would anybody want to punch somebody else in the face?
If you punch somebody in the face, then arguably you’ve ‘lost it.’
(There have been times when I’ve smacked somebody in the gob, but it wasn’t after the event. It was spontaneous, unscripted and dramatic. - The stuff that legends are made of (perhaps) but hardly the stuff which hits the press.
Smacking people around the face - even when they are as ugly as Ms Sheehan - is unacceptable. I’m sure that many Dems wish Ms Sheehan had stayed in her prairie dog colony, but once she’d stuck her head above the parapet, what could they do?
(If you want, I can slag off Cindy Sheehan or whoever you like. Why would we want to do that? We all know where the problems are, there’s no point in labouring the case.)
What did you guys actually do to Benedict Arnold, BTW?
Do you think you will be able to raise enough money to put a statue of Rumpsfelt alongside the one of Ben Arnold?
Rupert,
Reason I asked is that Jimmy Carter says America seemed to change in 2001, made him think we might no longer be sufficiently resilient to pendulum swing back to the left, something to do with culture, capitalism cum materialism and democrazy gone able sugar. He may be right. If he’s wrong, though, he’s not far wrong, so I see no harm rubbing our noses in it right up to a point when we come to our senses.
Rupert,
Had to go to a slang dictionary to find out what “slag” meant. Whew! You had me worried there for a while.
Dubina,
Is that some kind of typo or is “democrazy gone able sugar” also something I should look up in a slang dictionary?
Oh, please just forget I said that. Like I said, I’m a sympathetic and empathetic person IN PERSON, and would generally help anyone out in a tight spot, regardless of political differences. When writing about politics and political theory, most people come across as cold and systematic. The point was that if we form grudges it will impede the flow of much needed information. Also, if any people in power take steps to impede plans or other ways to tackle the effective handling of research, tracking and handling any HPAI strain, we should most certainly post reports of it HERE. All efforts to publicise and work to change public policies should be enacted by us, or at least the imformation given out by which we can take those steps. I, for one, don’t care if a politician in question is someone I voted for or not. If they fail to adequately do their job once in office, then it IS our duty to correct that problem, especially here in America, where it is a long forgotten duty. Regarding the “Sheehan comment”, I was simply worked up and meant to show that though that sort of sentiment would be found to be extremely offensive to many (as well as off topic) I personally have had to endure many posts on flu blogs which have almost driven me to tears because of their base cruelty and indifference to people of varying beliefs. It makes people feel unwanted and is so off-topic to post such things that we should only mention public officials if they have been shown to have directly impacted the ability of scientists to track, study and fight influenza.I don’t know if I’m the only one, but influenza has for the time being driven most political thoughts from my mind! It is far too important.
“…democrazy gone able sugar”
There are people who post at the China Daily (I’m sure, Moderators - agents of China Daily / the State) who have recently begun to characterize American democracy as “democrazy”, in other words, a systematic coruption of democracy. These people generally agree with Shadia Drury, a well-known scourge of neoconservatives (such as “Donald Rumpsfelt”) who characterizes contemporary American democracy as “the American corporate model of liberal democracy”. In Drury’s view, materialism has effectively subverted Jeffersonian democracy.
The Mods at China Daily imply or say outright that people habituated to comfort and security tend to lose their social bearings, that they only exist cowlike to produce and consume. The Mods are notably contemptous of that and suppose whatever China is evolving to be will somehow be better.
Maybe, I think. Maybe not.
Able sugar is military lingo for the letters “A” and “S” as in “Ape” “Shit”…which needs no further explanation.
0
As a non political independent (I only argue with the TV screen) here are my two bits worth (not that anyone would even give a penny for what follows).When I suggested that he that should not be named could use a new brain, I didn’t mean he didn’t have one, all I meant is if he is too lazy to use his own and allows others to think for him, perhaps, he could use a new one. I’ve been in discussion groups where I could accuratly predict any points made on either the blue or the red sides. (both extreme liberals and the extreme right) and it was very contentious and very boring. There was a very contentious period when someone impugned someone elses patriotism at which point a few of us suggested they take it up out of doors. If dueling was still the manly way it would have ended to the death. What my point of veiw is, think whatever you want, even say whatever you think, but we are in this all together now and its time that the bird flu took precedence. Someone here will have a brilliant solution, who knows maybe something as simple as seaweed or mushrooms. Its a lot of brain power. I’ve belonged to various think tanks and boy can you get some real wild cards, but thats it, the wild cards. Noone should be made to feel that because they have a different opinion they are persona non grata. What was it that Walt Whitman said in “Leaves of Grass” So I contradict myself, I have multitudes within me, or something to that effect. (Can’t recall the exact quote. I think it there should be almost a heraldic bird flu motto. John Donne (I again do a Mallapropism here) No man is a island entire unto himself. I should look it up. It stuck in my head because I wrote I was no Hemmingway, and then the thought For whom the bells toll, it tolls for thee. And that is my parphrase For whome the bells toll. It tolls for thee, for no man is an island unto himself.
During the Cuban missle crisis, the staff at the American Embassy in Berne needed a heck of a lot of medications for various conditions, indelicate to mention. Wait until the flu hits Washington. When it all hits the fan the House of Representatives will be held accountable for envisorating the small, small propsal put forth by their own Republican leader.I can’t feel Iraq, is worth the billions while this threat looming over the world isn’t.
Are you guys making a point on #4 here? Let’s go back to flu.
No man is an illand, intire of it selfe:… any mans death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankinde: and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for thee.
Walt Whitman: Talk honestly-no one else hears you and I stay only a minute longer. Do I contradict myself: ( I am large - I contain multitudes) as does the flu wiki.
Back to the flu.
So I found this interesting article the other day, let’s see, where was it….I was on my laptop…hmm..it was a link to life extension that someone posted on, who was it? ….darn, I asked him a question..viralprotein! Okay, I’m going to conduct a search! Hold on.
I found it! The link would be: http://www.cholecalciferol-council.com/pascal.pdf
And in this article in The Vitamin D Newsletter (Nov. 2005) by John Cannell M.D., he talks about epidemiologist R. Edward Hope-Simpson who had some, shall we say, non-mainstream ideas about what causes influenza pandemics. (I believe his research was mostly on the Spanish flu.) Hope-Simpson’s main theory - based on the fact that influenza is an essentially late-fall and winter disease and that during 1918 pandemic people worldwide got sick at essentially the same time, no matter how remote their location - was that the virus is not passed from actively sick person to well person, who then becomes sick and then passes on bug to next well person, etc., but is held in latent state by asymptomatic carriers until it is vitalized by the absence of some component of solar radiation. Now some of his conclusions may not be sound (but then again, maybe so), but the part about the solar radiation is intriguing. Hope-Simpson died in 2003, but others since have theorized that there may be some flu-suppressing aspect of sunlight, and that aspect may be vitamin D, which in warmer months we get from the sun.
So maybe Vitamin D supplements would be a fruitful avenue to explore.
Hmm…
Sorry Anne. Didn’t mean to make it sound like I was dismissing your valuable contribution. It just took me a long time to compose my last post.
Scaredy,
If it has a lot to do with sunlight, why does handwashing seem to help?
DON”T WORRY> I take very little to heart in the way of what some might conceive dismissive. I don’t. Used to listening to a lot of what others say with a grain of salt. When I get on to the web I tend to stick around for awhile and when I lose interest drift away very suddenly. This web is most valuable. Its a very sticky period. One day I won’t log in, I use the library computors, never bothered with a home computor as I prefer to write long hand, more condusive to my thought processes, than typing. It won’t because of some perceived interaction on anyone elses part. It will be because I’m somewhere else or because it doesn’t intrigue me enough to post.I don’t offend easily because I don’t usually care much about the others opinion. I only care about the opinions of those I care about.Good advice for anyone who is hyper touchy.
Scaredy Cat. Congratulations, I think you have just hit a jackpot.
dubina,
Hey, I didn’t write the article. Just passing on something that might be of interest.
But to consider your point: Maybe Hope-Simpson’s theory that flu was not passed from actively sick person to well person, etc. is wacky, but since flu is predominantly a disease of the late fall and winter months (although 1918 pandemic did go into summer months) maybe there is some component of solar radiation that plays a role in at least a “normal” flu’s transmission or expression (if you believe in the latent-state idea).
So, unclean hands (or spewing coughs) could spread the disease to new hosts who are more susceptible due to a lack of Vitamin D?
I don’t know.
You know that people for generations hung their bedding out the window to let the sunshine on it. I sleep on the floor for preference(my back) very comfortable on soft sheepskins. I periodically air it in the sunshine, as have generations of Europeans with their bedding. Folk wisdom. In my day a baby in his pram was exposed to the sun daily, again folk wisdom. Old people like to sit on sunny park benches soaking up the sun. In Switzerland the tubercular in the mountain sanatoriums lay wrapped in the cold sunny terraces. As far as the winter being flu season, didn’t one of the postings say the virus survives much longer in water and droppings in the cold air. If it survives thirty times as long in the cold of course it will be around to infect a much larger percentage of people. The extrapulations and connections. Scaredy cat, maybe you didn’t discover the connection, but you have turned it up and posted it. Thats really really great. That what these threads are all about.
http://www.diagnose-me.com/treat/T39894.html#G625
To Scaredy Cat: in this article they write toxicity occured if you intake Vitamin D3–50000 UI? But, maybe if you use just one at the beginning of the flu, there is no problem. I am confused about that. Take it or not?
….”Care must be taken in treating vitamin D deficiency, since high doses of vitamin D are toxic and can result in the permanent deposit of minerals in the heart, lungs and kidneys. Symptoms of toxicity include nausea, vomiting, joint pain, and lack of interest in eating food. In adults, vitamin D toxicity occurs with eating 50,000 IU or more per day. In infants, toxicity occurs with 1,000 IU per day. The continued intake of toxic doses results in death”….
(From the link up there)
Would be a good idea to start a new thread about vitamin D for people who are interested.
OK. Since it is being discussed, and in the interest of full and complete information, I offer the following link. I make no personal endorsement of the material covered, but then again, I have a colleague who uses this techniques and seems to have benefited greatly from it.
As they say, ‘Caveat lector’
Don’t they always caution people not to look at a solar eclipse directly as it will damage your eyes? I would be very skittish about staring into the sun, though as a small child I recall doing just that. I think an opthomogist might know. Will make an appointment not for that reason, and I think I’ll ask.
Tk’s for the link Eccles….This is for me…I love the sun, he is my God!
As long as this thread is on the topic of the sun, Anne, when my youngest was an infant, she was extremely jaundiced and, in addition to having her on a billirubin light blanket at home, we were told to keep her on the 3-season porch during the day so she could get the sunlight. Something to do with red blood cells dying and backing up at the liver and the light helps break it up so they can get rid of it. Unfortunately, they hadn’t realized her jaundice was caused by a large blood loss at birth and she didn’t have enough red blood cells to carry the oxygen she needed, so it didn’t help and she ended up in pediatric ICU where she got 2 blood transfusions. At 18 months now, she’s doing great. Anyway, I digress under normal circumstances, the light rays help reduce the billirubin level and, thus, jaundice.
Tj! I was told to do the same thing with several of my premie, jaunidiced babies. One of them also came home with a some kind of a wrap that went around his body trunk and had the bili- lights in that. Anyway, sunlight did help and we were told to keep the babies in the window.
Thanks for the comments. Please keep this thread about the rules (maybe rule #5 should be stay on topic? ;-) ) and start a new one about unrelated topics.
Just a small note re “politics”: Wait until this site becomes fully multilingual! Then you’ll see what I see (and you already know, I know):
My point is: people posting about politics might want to think about the next reader and the next poster. Those “next” people may be from the other end of the spectrum, but they may also be from a different part of the world!
Even the word “spectrum” troubles me a bit. At some point in time I came across http://www.culturalcreatives.org and there was a chart of political positions. It was not a line (a one-dimensional thing) but at least a plane (a two-dimensional thing). I wish I had kept the link, but hope you get the idea: “spectrum” is a way to simplify positions, but it may be a bit of an oversimplification.
We’re becoming really good at acknowledging each other, no?
bumped for new readers
To help Dem update:
Comments on US politics are going to bore international users, and there are quite a few here. There are plenty of other sites where you can (and should!) comment on politics and flu. This isn’t one of them. This is a non-partisan site for information on possible pandemic influenza. Period.
I think I could start a message board to discuss herbal gardening, and politics would wind up getting dragged into it. I hope this board can be kept as relatively non-political as possible, except to discuss politics as it directly relates to bird flu. Just to add my voice to the mix.
Same with religion. Politics and religion are very important. Just not the focus here.
Fellow posters: I just want to say that I have been impressed with the dignity and respect with which this forum has been conducted. Thank you all.
Good rules,fair,one thing to the Americans,as a Canadian we share alot,TV,music,news,politics,and alot of other stuff.So when you write think of us as a neighbor,i think Canada is more an open society,to not offend any of you,we have same sex marriage,abortion,and a wide range of beliefs to help one another.Free hospital,free Doctor`s,and a great social system .Sure we have crime and a list of other problems,but it is a different way of life.I have traveled all over the world,i lived in Netherlands for three years,this is the greatest place.But back to writing,we,us Canadians know as much about America as an American.
Canadians know far more about americans than Americans know about Canada (or is that aboot)? Good luck with next week’s elections, eh?
Monday!!! But it`s a tough pick,we got G Bush,an old thief,and a feminist who does`nt like his wife,and pot-smoking Green party,i think i will get a good movie,The Postman
bumped for visibility.
The Forum rules are great!
one comment above seems to be a good idea: let’s agree on some markers how to specify posts.
E.g. (P) preceding the subject line means political (S) scientific (Pr) preparation tips and discussion (A) animals (N) news (E) expert opinions (-GOV),(-CDC),(-WHO),(-UN),(-US),(-IRQ),(-TR),(-China),(-THAI),…for countries,organizations (F) discussion about fluwiki and this forum etc.
If someone wants to post politics mark it politics. If they don’t mark it let the editor mark it. If a thread becomes political let the editors mark it. If someone turns a thread into political discussion move it to politics. I suspect that if the flu takes off there will be some government involvement with regard to the flu. How the flu is handled via political policy may become an important issue. Some who read and post here may want to compare their government’s policies with other policies. Personally, I avoid politics as much as possible, but it is not always possible. If the thread is marked I can avoid it or perhaps delve in if it affects my interests. To have apolitical discussions about policy — that is probably impossible because my guy is better than your guy and I am sure of it.
How the flu is handled via political policy may become an important issue.
And those discussions wouldn’t necessarily be off limits. It’s political debates that veer away from flu and become about everything else that are the concern here. I shut down two different threads today that had turned into debates about terrorism, the American military and Iran’s nuclear program. There are lots of other sites where those issues can be discussed.
I agree with you Pogge. However flu politics is possibly another matter.
On Rule #4: I am older than dirt. I have tried to live my life with the utmost honesty, critical thinking, objectivity, compassion, kindness, business sense, love of my family, patriotism, respect for the scientific method and a never ending search for religious truth. I never take cheap shots and have corrected my posts many times so that I would not raise rancor, just to satisfy my need to vent. My personal political spectrum does not exist. I am Red, Blue, White, Black, and too soon gray. I personally like most rainbows I see. I am an old New England Yankee who likes the Red Sox but I am reserving judgment on the next season. Look, Blue vs. Red is a fact. It has implications for every aspect of our lives. I think we insulate ourselves and talk to mostly like minded people. There is little civil discourse left in this country because the press does not do its job and we are systematically deceived and manipulated by both ends of the great color divide. It is the nature of the political system that we have created. This is an opportunity to come to respect and understand each other on an even more important subject than politics. I thought I would never say that in my life. There are good people and some great minds here. Let’s talk. Let’s stay on topic. Let’s bring in any relevant political observation if it pertains without reaching to far for a connection. Never quiet any speech which is not shouted in your face. If you are uncomfortable, say that. We get trolls, the tower of Babel, folks with agendas, people with a bridge at the right price, and lots of really good insights. If you asked me directly what I think of our current political situation in the United States and does it affect the objective of this forum? I have to be honest and tell you that I believe that we are seeing one of the worst examples of Presidential power and running of the executive branch of government in the history of our nation. The Supreme Court can’t be trusted to enforce an honest and fair interpretation of the laws of our country and it’s Constitution. The voters of our nation are blissfully ignorant of even most basic facts and analysis of current issues and have vociferous opinions on the same. The press calls horse races and has totally failed the public trust. Foreign governments through corporate power make decisions and then brain wash us into doing their will. I think we live in a Corporate Feudal State. We are slaves. For example, we have paid for our homes many times over and yet the system makes sure those of us that can still afford home ownership have large mortgages - forever. That is not an accident. It is by design. We can do better than that. Our forefathers did. How will such strongly held and potentially polarizing beliefs affect my postings here? It won’t. My Mother once told me that the mark of a gentleman is that he makes everyone around him feel comfortable at all times…especially when you disagree.
Please please lets keep politics out of it, this is the only site that we mortals can seek advice and recieve sensible and honest ‘reply’
….sorry bout yesterday…was unaware of the forum rules until i read this…won’t happen again.
One of the reasons I like this site, and participate, has been the absence of rancor, partisan politics, and wild conspiracy theories.
I’d like to see it stay that way.
I think we should use the code “Forum Rules” whenever someone says something controversial that we might otherwise like to protest. That way instead of feeling like you have to respond to something political you can simply type “Forum Rules” as a way of saying “I disagree with what you are saying but I’m not allowed to actually point out where you are being an idiot because then we might have a heated off-topic discussion that would violate the Forum Rules.”
Think that would work?
I’d prefer, if you’d actually point out why I were an idiot.
But then we couldn’t be friends on here…and pogge might get mad at us. :-)
pogge only gets mad once a year. But he alwways has a point. I’ve been saying ‘see rule 4′ for politics discussions that get out of hand.
Hey Dude: Gotta like your style. Your mother was right, but I guess you knew that. If we all followed your unwritten rules the world and the board would be a better place.
pogge only gets mad once a year.
Boy, have I got you fooled. ;-)
I once was stuck in a compartment with a gentleman who felt he needed to enlighten me on his countries politics. Better than some of the other subjects that can be brought up when your stuck with someone. I just nodded my head, and every now and then wandered off to the food section where two young girls where playing cards and flirting with young men just for a change. Couldn’t wait to get to Amsterdam.Another countries politics are O.K. if you are interested, and only if you are interested.
Pogge, thank you for your patience. Even when a thread needs to be reined in, I still learn a lot. It is so easy to get carried away, and we need moderation, is where the word moderator originates? Again thanks to all our very patient moderators. Sometimes I can’t beleive how far out in space some posters can be. But to the vast population out there who don’t want to beleive, we sensible flu wikians can seem far out. I always recall the poster who claimed the one thing lacking on this forum, was common sense. Our common sense does sometimes get lost in the heat of the moment.
Pogge, thank you for your patience.
You’re welcome, Lily, though as I demonstrated yesterday I’m not always patient.
As for other countries’ politics, I actually follow American politics fairly closely and I have definite opinions. But as the adminstrator of a site that’s attempting to remain non-partisan, the last thing I should do is jump in on one side or the other of a partisan debate. Sometimes keeping my opinion to myself is the thing that requires the most patience. ;-)
tell me about it. ;-)
And don’t forget, the unwritten internet advice,
“Don’t feed the trolls”
Deny them your attention. ;-)
I doubt that this could be a rule perhaps a general form of etiquette. Before anyone gets on me, I too have been guilty of this.
I notice that people who post often stick in a comment that could be interpreted as a zing or akin to someone shouting from the other room (keep it down, stay on topic, no politics). It seems to me that such zings are often misinterpreted as simple bitching rather than as a comment to help smooth things over and or remind people of the forum rules.
I would suggest that anyone (including moderators) attempt to address the issue under discussion first and then tactfully comment that xxx is needed in the discussion.
I realize that those who moderate have a lot of work and they do a lot of work. At times they are hurried and can only drop a line and move on to the next thread. None-the-less, a little tact would probably accomplish more than a zing. Suggested guideline – No zinging
I agree with DemFrom Ct’s comment that one should not post unless they have a thick skin (maybe some Darwinian culling going on here)but it is in no ones interest to anger others and or drive people away. I am not suggesting that anyone is trying to do that. It may be the result if people feel intimidated.
I do think that one of the more helpful functions the mods have provided are referrals to prior threads where the issue has been extensively rehashed.
Perhaps if one has to zing, it could be accompanied by a standard apology. Such as, “Sorry, I don’t have time to discuss this right now but ---“
Your zing is my informative comment, and vice versa. ;-) You can’t regulate how people react. A referral to info elsewhere is not an invitation to stop the comments or cut off discussion.
Nonetheless, good advice. ;-)
This Forum deserves boundless butter, but needs no buttering up, so I’ll skip that. But I want to make one constructive suggestion that, precisely as a newbie, I see sometimes as a serious problem: Poor—, or downright Mis—labeling of topics by hasty initiators full of (proper) enthusiasm! Such as:
“Suggestions….I Need Opinions…How To Practice…” etc In contrast, such as: “Generators—What To Get…Powdered Milk…Counterfeit Tamiflu…”
So why my concern? TIME. Newbies especially need to view a very wide range of topics and many are quite lengthy.
Secondly, the very real likelihood of MISSING VITAL info because it is ‘disguised’ as “Suggestions” or such!
PLEASE, as a newbie I especially realise, it it hard to get the title optimal when we haven’t even written our initial comment. And maybe not just newbies…?
CAN THE EDITORS POSSIBLY CHANGE/CLARIFY TITLES AS NEEDED?
I shall, again, resist the impulse to praise all else!
Cheers, in every sense of that word. <grin>
CAN THE EDITORS POSSIBLY CHANGE/CLARIFY TITLES AS NEEDED?
Not as simple as editing a page below the title. The page needs to be renamed and redirected. Yes, it can be done, but easier to think before you name. ;-)
Nikolai—Sydney – at 16:00 --- “This Forum deserves boundless butter…”
Does that mean we’re all toast?
[sorry…I just couldn’t resist!] :-)
Ha-Ha, very good! Well, yes, perhaps we are. But even in the kitchen, perhaps poor heat battered toast feels some comfort from the soothing ointment of melted butter!
I think we need now, and will in future, any comfort we can get. Good luck to all!
DemFromCT—at 16:06:
I see. Out of my depth here, but still concerned.
Is it practical (is it indicated?) to add a caution, where new titles are opened, about creating helpfully descriptive titles?
Thanks, Dem.
Good idea.
Its important to include definitions and examples of what is meant in the rules by “political,” “religious” “boring and incomprehensible American politics” and any other terms being limited. Topics such as funding vaccines, distributing vaccines, what types of people are preparing (and aren’t preparing) and people’s access to information (to name a few)-- these can all be seen as political or religious issues. All the discussion here is in the context of bird flu so unless you give clear definitions with examples these terms are too broad to be meaningful.
these terms are too broad to be meaningful.
Not so. Endless lists of rules are pointless. Simple rule:
Use your judgement, then we’ll use ours. Good faith is assumed on both sides.
We have people on the wiki who seem to be hot wired. They have their definate ideas and will articulate them over and over again. Very assertive, and of course those who hold opposing veiwpoints who will chime in and state their positions. Sometimes it doesn’t work and those who are used to controlling a situation possibly in their own home, or workplace will press well beyond what is considered reasonable by many of us. It can get ugly. I think Dem and Melanie have taken a lot of uneeded flack. I think there is a definate lack of a feeling for boundries, and this wikie does have boundries.I will get flamed I’m sure for stating this, but I don’t think jumping on the moderators is really mannerly and certainly poor impulse control.I go all over the map in what I say, I’m sure I am a pain to some. But I do set some limits, and I think a little bit of courtesy can go a long way in these squabbles. I would hate to see the wikie go up in flames over ego issues.Lets all try a bit of polite restraint.
DemFromCT - I didn’t say anything about an endless list of rules.
Lily - I’m not jumping on the moderators, I’m trying to be helpful.
Well said, Lily. Gets back to DemFromCT – at 18:44, 25 November. As you can see if you read the whole thread, politics was another hot button issue.
Assume the poster you’ve conversing with is family… and treat them accordingly. Maybe they’re wrong, maybe they need enightenment, but they’re not deserving of hot bamboo sticks under the fingernails.
Peej – at 13:15
I think you’re trying to be helpful, too. I don’t take it as an attack or an affront.
I don’t remember if it was you Dem or Melanie who said you were getting email complaints about certain topics. So I’m trying to think of how we can clarify the rules so as to avoid miscommunication. Maybe continuing with a best-judgment policy is the best way. Maybe people won’t even read the rules anyway.
I have enough problems with an incipient pandemic—but one additional nightmare I couldn’t face would be a world with no Forum, no pogge, no Melanie, no DemFromCT, no posting members!
I just pray the Internet and access stays up for all of us. It will be very dark and very lonely else!
Peej – at 13:22
That’s my thinking.
Nikolai—Sydney – at 13:31
We’re working on that constantly. Textdrive has been a huge help.
Dem, Melanie, et al: Ditto comments by Lily and Nikolai!
Peej, wasn’t thinking of you. Had read one thread that was really ugly. Even veiled threats that are uncalled for. I won’t comment on what I thought except it was really a lot of bully tactics which tick me off if I come across them in my travels. I usually will not get involved unless someone goes well over the line, or drags me in, then its gloves off. Dem and Melanie do not deserve such disrespect. What it seemed to boil down to is who is calling the shots, who is controlling the wikie. We have so much leeway, but we do not call the shots, we do not control this wikie. We did not start it, we have not put in dogsbody hours moderating it. If this very public spirited wikie goes down because of posters egotisical nonsense, then it is a loss for everyone here, and anyone who would learn something here in the future. If it takes a little bit of restraint,common courtesy, well, let see it here.Hopefully those who post and consider themselves Alphas, will learn that here we posters are Betas, and lucky to be here at all.
Thought I’d bump so anyone new could see.
Bumped again…
ok i read the rules and agree, to follow them.
Heh. That makes one of us. ;-)
Thanks, bird watcher!!
Bumped again.
I have read; and I do hereby agree;
BB mumbles to himself, trying to understand “the Southern drawl” he just experienced
I too have read and agreed with, at least to the extent that I can remember what it was I read and agreed with ;-), ah the lovely effects of aging and too much red wine flu killer…
Obviously BroncoBill has a twin in Texas….as I pour another glass…..
Kills cholesterol, bird flu, the need for Viagra and so many other things, Oh fruit of the vine how sweet thou art. With steak and pasta on the side life doesn’t get any better.
This new online source provides more information on breaking news, A lot of positive thoughts and jokes, poems are found in http://www.thenewzealander.com. Initially we thought it is for kiwis. But now we are finding this http://www.thenewzealander.com useful for everybody
JoeW,
It gives me migraines, unfortunately. I have to use White Flu Juice.
I saw this website mentioned above http://www.thenewzealander.com a few days before. I agree it is interesting with some poems, jokes, and cine news , US news as well as New Zealand. But my main concern is about the download takes a while. probably because of Photo features like Scarleet Johanson. I may recommend this website if your download speed is little bit more than dialup
Rash,
Download issues are probably on your end, but we welcome you aboard.
To the Powers That Be:
Sincerest apologies for the debate I started yesterday over the Fox News segment. That was not my inention by any means. I blame not enough sleep, inusfficient caffeine and overall frustration with the media. I had just seen the segment and was just so pi$$ed off! Won’t happen again - promise!
lauraB – at 06:14
Thanks. It was a good and healthy reminder that we do need there rules.
As Tom DVM point out, unfettered opinion is healthy (but do you really want to tell your brother-in-law what you think)? We just ask everyone to consider your audience. Please check the last comment I left.
bumped
Have read these before.
IMHO, there are plenty of places on the net to go and talk about politics. You can even start your own blog for free just to rant about politics if you want. Thousands of people have done just that.
I personally come here to keep up with Avian Flu news. I’ll go to another site if I want to keep up with political news or rant about it.
Amen….I thought the purpose was to discuss Avian Flu and how we as a “world” are going to survive it. Yes, Oui, Si - it doesn’t matter; it’s the same word, with the same connotation.
*DemFromCT – at 10:49
Comment added to bump to top. I’d like these rules seen and read.
End of sermon.*
Amen
Closed due to length. The rules of the Forum are posted for all of us, so the conversation is continued here.